Empathy for female players... (SPOILERS)

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Mike Horner

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Aug 20, 2001, 10:07:04 AM8/20/01
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Hi All

I've just abandoned an attempt to play through BG2 with a female PC
(I'm a bloke, BTW). My first run-through was as a male F/T, romancing
Jaheira, and I thought it might be fun to see how the game looks from
another perspective.

ARGH!

My female mage was pretty powerful as CH3 went on, but Anomen's
pathetic courtship lines were starting to grate. He even claimed to
find a rare flower in the middle of the Beholder tunnels during the
Eye quest! But the crunch came when he found out Saerk really killed
his sister. Could I hell find a way through the dialogue that kept him
in the party. I even threw dignity to the winds and told him I loved
him. No dice. Off he goes, the smarmy bugger, leaving us with tons of
surplus gear, and no-one able to wield the Hammer of Thunderbolts. So
there's my PC, broken-hearted, faced with recruiting Keldorn or
Valygar (Korgan not being available - his body lies on the floor of
the Coronet).

I reckon that any gals who play BG2 must be really keen fans, to put
up with the appalling NPC options. I'm sure you're being short-changed
- or is Anomen really cute from a female perspecive? (please God, no)

Mike

Mark Blunden

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Aug 20, 2001, 1:32:16 PM8/20/01
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"Mike Horner" <mvho...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:a913b5a5.01082...@posting.google.com...

Some dedicated people announced a little while ago that they're working on
creating some extra romance options for female characters, so things should
look up in future. I've never bothered with any of the romance options - I
guess I just don't see the main character as 'me', so I find the romance
possibilities irrelevant.

--
Mark.
mar...@bigfoot.com

* I don't know what it is but I feel strangely drawn towards it

The Scribe

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Aug 20, 2001, 2:03:33 PM8/20/01
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Mark Blunden wrote:
>
> "Mike Horner" <mvho...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:a913b5a5.01082...@posting.google.com...
> > Hi All
> >
> > I've just abandoned an attempt to play through BG2 with a female PC
> > (I'm a bloke, BTW). My first run-through was as a male F/T, romancing
> > Jaheira, and I thought it might be fun to see how the game looks from
> > another perspective.
> >
> > ARGH!
> >
> > My female mage was pretty powerful as CH3 went on, but Anomen's
> > pathetic courtship lines were starting to grate. He even claimed to
> > find a rare flower in the middle of the Beholder tunnels during the
> > Eye quest! But the crunch came when he found out Saerk really killed
> > his sister. Could I hell find a way through the dialogue that kept him
> > in the party. I even threw dignity to the winds and told him I loved
> > him. No dice. Off he goes, the smarmy bugger, leaving us with tons of
> > surplus gear, and no-one able to wield the Hammer of Thunderbolts. So
> > there's my PC, broken-hearted, faced with recruiting Keldorn or
> > Valygar (Korgan not being available - his body lies on the floor of
> > the Coronet).

I never had that problem. I went through the roof entrance, chose option
1 for the first dialog option (that says this is not about whether the
law will touch him or not and you know it!), said that I'll be there for
you, I love you, blah blah blah.

> > I reckon that any gals who play BG2 must be really keen fans, to put
> > up with the appalling NPC options. I'm sure you're being short-changed
> > - or is Anomen really cute from a female perspecive? (please God, no)

He's not bad (waits for the shrieks of nooo!). For pure fun I took in my
latest party some NPC's that would argue with him alot. Jan Jansen and
Haer'Dalis in particular like to poke fun at him. I do have to admit the
first time I played the game and got the first romance dialog (violins
Bioware?) with the cheezy music in the background I spat Coke all over
my keyboard since I found the whole thing so ridiculous. Luckily
keyboards are so cheap...


> Some dedicated people announced a little while ago that they're working on
> creating some extra romance options for female characters, so things should
> look up in future. I've never bothered with any of the romance options - I
> guess I just don't see the main character as 'me', so I find the romance
> possibilities irrelevant.

Yeah, bring on Soulafin! If there are other romance projects then please
tell me about it.

N. M. Wallace

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Aug 20, 2001, 2:59:28 PM8/20/01
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On 20 Aug 2001, Mike Horner wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I've just abandoned an attempt to play through BG2 with a female PC
> (I'm a bloke, BTW). My first run-through was as a male F/T, romancing
> Jaheira, and I thought it might be fun to see how the game looks from
> another perspective.
>
> ARGH!
>
> My female mage was pretty powerful as CH3 went on, but Anomen's
> pathetic courtship lines were starting to grate. He even claimed to
> find a rare flower in the middle of the Beholder tunnels during the
> Eye quest!

*grin* Someone else who had that happen said, "I really wanted the
option to reply, 'No, Anomen, that's a beholder eyestalk.'

Yes, he has bad timing--but so do all the romances. They can't help
it--they're coded that way.

> But the crunch came when he found out Saerk really killed
> his sister. Could I hell find a way through the dialogue that kept him
> in the party. I even threw dignity to the winds and told him I loved
> him. No dice.

There are two right answers, and two wrong answers. Suprisingly, "I love
you," is not one of the right answers.

> Off he goes, the smarmy bugger, leaving us with tons of
> surplus gear, and no-one able to wield the Hammer of Thunderbolts. So
> there's my PC, broken-hearted, faced with recruiting Keldorn or
> Valygar (Korgan not being available - his body lies on the floor of
> the Coronet).
>
> I reckon that any gals who play BG2 must be really keen fans, to put
> up with the appalling NPC options. I'm sure you're being short-changed
> - or is Anomen really cute from a female perspecive? (please God, no)

Cute is not the word I would use. He is a character with a surprising
amount of depth and realism to him, which I think is why an awful lot of
women come to appreciate him. He's got issues alright, but they're
issues that I can relate to, having several friends who grew up in
dysfunctional families with abusive parents. Most importantly, though,
is the fact that he does a significant amount of growing up through the
course of the romance. If you're the sort of woman who wants a man who
will be completely loyal to you, then he's perfect.

But hey--deep down, I've always been a hopeless romantic. I also think
that Dave Gaider did a damned good job with Anomen, and so no, I don't
feel short-changed.


Nancy M. Wallace @}----- dark...@pardalis.org

You are the worst kind of parasite. The fact that you are fluffy only
enhances the level of evil.

Justen, "Still in Love"

Westley Weimer

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Aug 20, 2001, 4:23:48 PM8/20/01
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The Scribe <iNgOiS...@homme.com> wrote:
> Yeah, bring on Solaufein! If there are other romance projects then please
> tell me about it.

We're working on it! :-)

If you had your choice of:
Long Sword **
Scimitar **
Two-Weapon Style ***
and
Long Sword **
Crossbow **
Two-Weapon Style ***

Which would you want? :-)

There is another team working on a male romantic interest ... a wild mage
of some sort, IIRC.

- Wes

Leo Fellmann

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Aug 20, 2001, 5:44:43 PM8/20/01
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"The Scribe" <iNgOiS...@hoMme.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3B817AFE...@hoMme.com...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
That loud enough? :)

For pure fun I took in my
> latest party some NPC's that would argue with him alot. Jan Jansen and
> Haer'Dalis in particular like to poke fun at him. I do have to admit the
> first time I played the game and got the first romance dialog (violins
> Bioware?) with the cheezy music in the background I spat Coke all over
> my keyboard since I found the whole thing so ridiculous. Luckily
> keyboards are so cheap...

*nods*

If it's regular coke you can clean it off the circuits with isopropyl
alcohol. If it's diet, the youre fucked. The aspartame will bond with the
copper and take it off too when you try and clean it. Another argument
against diet coke :)
( oh, and yes, this is from personal experiance :( ).

>
> > Some dedicated people announced a little while ago that they're working
on
> > creating some extra romance options for female characters, so things
should
> > look up in future. I've never bothered with any of the romance options -
I
> > guess I just don't see the main character as 'me', so I find the romance
> > possibilities irrelevant.
>
> Yeah, bring on Soulafin! If there are other romance projects then please
> tell me about it.

Not Solaufein, no. But if you want to contribute e-mail me at
l.fel...@free.fr. We need some people to help :)


Leo Fellmann

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Aug 20, 2001, 5:46:40 PM8/20/01
to

"Westley Weimer" <wei...@argus.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9lrrkk$3qk$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...

> The Scribe <iNgOiS...@homme.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, bring on Solaufein! If there are other romance projects then
please
> > tell me about it.
>
> We're working on it! :-)

Who's "we"? Got a website? I'd love more info.

> If you had your choice of:
> Long Sword **
> Scimitar **
> Two-Weapon Style ***
> and
> Long Sword **
> Crossbow **
> Two-Weapon Style ***
>
> Which would you want? :-)

For a drow. humm... long sword/crossbow, definitely.
Try using the complete book of Drow for help. If you don't have it I can
tell you where you can download it ( Ok, I know it's bad, but I can do it, I
already own a paper copy :) )


Bob Tokyo

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Aug 20, 2001, 8:57:20 PM8/20/01
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"Westley Weimer" <wei...@argus.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:9lrrkk$3qk$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...

> The Scribe <iNgOiS...@homme.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, bring on Solaufein! If there are other romance projects then
please
> > tell me about it.
>
> We're working on it! :-)
>
> If you had your choice of:
> Long Sword **
> Scimitar **
> Two-Weapon Style ***
> and
> Long Sword **
> Crossbow **
> Two-Weapon Style ***
>
> Which would you want? :-)
>
Long Sword and Scimitar. Less fidling around switching weapons.


Paul Fedorenko

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Aug 21, 2001, 12:13:03 AM8/21/01
to
> If it's regular coke you can clean it off the circuits with isopropyl
> alcohol. If it's diet, the youre fucked. The aspartame will bond with the
> copper and take it off too when you try and clean it. Another argument
> against diet coke :)
> ( oh, and yes, this is from personal experiance :( ).

I once spilled an entire bottle of Diet &-Up on a HP printer after a friend
of mine made an incredibly bad joke... that was five years ago, and it
still works fine. I guess some devices are more aspartame-proof than
others...

Speaker-to-Customers

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Aug 20, 2001, 6:01:38 PM8/20/01
to

"Westley Weimer" wrote ...

> The Scribe <iNgOiS...@homme.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, bring on Solaufein! If there are other romance projects then
please
> > tell me about it.
>
> We're working on it! :-)
>
> If you had your choice of:
> Long Sword **
> Scimitar **
> Two-Weapon Style ***
> and
> Long Sword **
> Crossbow **
> Two-Weapon Style ***
>
> Which would you want? :-)

For a Drow, definitely Longsword** Crossbow** 2-Weapon Style***.
Drizzt Do'Urden is the only Drow in existence who uses a scimitar, whereas
every 2nd Drow in the Underdark carries a crossbow at all times, putting it
down only to bathe, or to draw Longsword or Flail.

Paul Speaker-to-Customers


Leo Fellmann

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Aug 21, 2001, 4:43:04 AM8/21/01
to

"Paul Fedorenko" <p...@bite-me.idirect.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:%8lg7.19672$wX5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

I guess the coke didn't get to the sensitive parts of the printer then.
But whoever heard of an HP printer working fine for 5 years? :)


Kevin D. Thomas

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Aug 21, 2001, 5:33:16 AM8/21/01
to

> But hey--deep down, I've always been a hopeless romantic. I also think
> that Dave Gaider did a damned good job with Anomen, and so no, I don't
> feel short-changed.

Do you frequent the official Black Isle message boards at all? DaveG
regularly posts there and right now seems to be working, in his spare time
(!), on a possible unofficial Valygar romance for Tob or even SoA as well,
just cause he wants people to enjoy the game as much as possible. He's
already done several unofficial tweaks to the major endbosses in Tob because
people wanted an option for more difficult battles with them. The guy and
the company he works for impress me all to hell with their customer
interaction...

K


Rhino 7

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Aug 21, 2001, 2:13:57 PM8/21/01
to
>Cute is not the word I would use. He is a character with a surprising
>amount of depth and realism to him, which I think is why an awful lot of
>women come to appreciate him. He's got issues alright, but they're
>issues that I can relate to, having several friends who grew up in
>dysfunctional families with abusive parents. Most importantly, though,
>is the fact that he does a significant amount of growing up through the
>course of the romance. If you're the sort of woman who wants a man who
>will be completely loyal to you, then he's perfect.

Honestly, I found the growing aspect most appealing. He starts out
very self-centered and opinionated, then he gets better. I don't
think i'd enjoy a one-on-one with Valygar (too quiet/introverted).
And somehow/somewhen Anomen got to 19 charisma. That's got to count
for something!?!

>But hey--deep down, I've always been a hopeless romantic. I also think
>that Dave Gaider did a damned good job with Anomen, and so no, I don't
>feel short-changed.
>
>
>Nancy M. Wallace @}----- dark...@pardalis.org

So far, in this run through the game he's managed to drag me off into
a dark corner **TWICE**. Woo Hoo!!

PS - I've tried the male PC romances too. Viconias the most fun:
tossing innuendoes back and forth. Aerie's too young for me.
Jaheria? well I just can't seem to get over (1) what a royal pain she
was in BGI, and (2) getting over her husband so fast.

Rhino7

The Scribe

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Aug 21, 2001, 2:55:48 PM8/21/01
to
Rhino 7 wrote:

>
> So far, in this run through the game he's managed to drag me off into
> a dark corner **TWICE**. Woo Hoo!!

LOL. He's more obvious about it in TOB and much more relaxed in
attitude. If you want a funny dialog have Imoen and Anomen in your party
in TOB.


> PS - I've tried the male PC romances too. Viconias the most fun:
> tossing innuendoes back and forth. Aerie's too young for me.
> Jaheria? well I just can't seem to get over (1) what a royal pain she
> was in BGI, and (2) getting over her husband so fast.

Jaheria is even more annoying in SOA. In my first game I actually had
her with me until the Underdark when I spoke to the Silver Dragon. She
tells a Bhaalspawn to shut up like she's the wisest party member? So
long Jaheria and don't forget to write.

Htn963

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Aug 21, 2001, 3:14:50 PM8/21/01
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"Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote in message news:<sapg7.565$1n7.7...@nnrp6.proxad.net>...

<snip>

> I guess the coke didn't get to the sensitive parts of the printer then.
> But whoever heard of an HP printer working fine for 5 years? :)

Hewlett Packards do make quality and reliable printers. My HP
LaserJet 4L has been churning out lengthy documents on a regular basis
without a single problem for six years now. Love that thing!

I am less impressed with HP computer systems, however, which
contain cheap components from outside sources.

Ht

Jason Compton

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Aug 21, 2001, 3:23:18 PM8/21/01
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The Scribe <iNgOiS...@homme.com> wrote:

: LOL. He's more obvious about it in TOB and much more relaxed in
: attitude.

Ugh. The TOB Anomen dialogue contains one of the worst pick-up lines in
the history of fantasy romance. Although it's not a voiced line, I can
definitely hear it ringing in my head...

--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com

Leo Fellmann

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Aug 21, 2001, 6:17:27 PM8/21/01
to

"Htn963" <Htn...@cs.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d12cac0f.01082...@posting.google.com...

> "Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:<sapg7.565$1n7.7...@nnrp6.proxad.net>...
>
> <snip>
>
> > I guess the coke didn't get to the sensitive parts of the printer then.
> > But whoever heard of an HP printer working fine for 5 years? :)
>
> Hewlett Packards do make quality and reliable printers. My HP
> LaserJet 4L has been churning out lengthy documents on a regular basis
> without a single problem for six years now. Love that thing!

I've got an old 4L too, Ive never had any problems with it apart from the
fact it hasn't much memory.
However, I also have a PSC 500 and a 720C. I am less then satisfied with
both of them.
The 720C has buggy software, it crashes if you try to change the settings
more than once without a reboot.
The PSC 500's software will crash your PC on boot. It took me an hour to
stop it doing that, and the effing printer still won't print straight.

> I am less impressed with HP computer systems, however, which
> contain cheap components from outside sources.

Give them the windows test.


Hong Ooi

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Aug 22, 2001, 3:51:49 AM8/22/01
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:59:28 -0700, "N. M. Wallace" <dark...@pardalis.org>
wrote:

>
>Cute is not the word I would use. He is a character with a surprising
>amount of depth and realism to him, which I think is why an awful lot of
>women come to appreciate him. He's got issues alright, but they're
>issues that I can relate to, having several friends who grew up in
>dysfunctional families with abusive parents. Most importantly, though,
>is the fact that he does a significant amount of growing up through the
>course of the romance. If you're the sort of woman who wants a man who
>will be completely loyal to you, then he's perfect.
>
>But hey--deep down, I've always been a hopeless romantic. I also think
>that Dave Gaider did a damned good job with Anomen, and so no, I don't
>feel short-changed.
>

The biggest issue I have with Annie is his incredibly annoying "what is it
now?" soundbite. When I restarted TOB with a fresh character, time had
mellowed my memories, so I thought I'd give him another go. The first time
I clicked on him and he came out with that line, I remembered why I always
wanted to throttle him.


--
Hong Ooi | "I'm ready to go to Hell, but the Jaheira
hong...@maths.anu.edu.au | romance seems to have stopped."
http://www.zip.com.au/~hong | -- MM
Canberra, Australia |

N. M. Wallace

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Aug 22, 2001, 3:44:08 PM8/22/01
to
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Hong Ooi wrote:

> The biggest issue I have with Annie is his incredibly annoying "what is it
> now?" soundbite. When I restarted TOB with a fresh character, time had
> mellowed my memories, so I thought I'd give him another go. The first time
> I clicked on him and he came out with that line, I remembered why I always
> wanted to throttle him.

*grin* My biggest issue with Anomen is his entire soundset. For whatever
reason, that particular voice actor (who someone claimed is Rob Paulsen,
the guy who does Pinky in Pinky and the Brain) is like fingernails on a
chalkboard to me in all of Anomen's dialogue. I found that I liked him
much better after I started hitting "mute" every time I heard that sappy
music start up.

N. M. Wallace

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Aug 22, 2001, 3:48:01 PM8/22/01
to
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Jason Compton wrote:

> The Scribe <iNgOiS...@homme.com> wrote:
>
> : LOL. He's more obvious about it in TOB and much more relaxed in
> : attitude.
>
> Ugh. The TOB Anomen dialogue contains one of the worst pick-up lines in
> the history of fantasy romance. Although it's not a voiced line, I can
> definitely hear it ringing in my head...

Oh, come on. It can't be worse than the CN Anomen line about "Let me
remove my tunic and you may gaze upon my body, honed through years of
exertion..."

I almost gave myself an asthma attack when I first read that.


Nancy M. Wallace @}----- dark...@pardalis.org

You are the worst kind of parasite. The fact that you are fluffy only

D. Vrabel

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Aug 22, 2001, 4:38:12 PM8/22/01
to
Leo Fellmann wrote:
>
> If it's regular coke you can clean it off the circuits with isopropyl
> alcohol. If it's diet, the youre fucked. The aspartame will bond with the
> copper and take it off too when you try and clean it. Another argument
> against diet coke :)
> ( oh, and yes, this is from personal experiance :( ).

If diet coke does this to keyboards what's it doing to you when you
drink it?!

David Vrabel

Jason Compton

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Aug 22, 2001, 5:18:38 PM8/22/01
to
N. M. Wallace <dark...@pardalis.org> wrote:

: Oh, come on. It can't be worse than the CN Anomen line about "Let me


: remove my tunic and you may gaze upon my body, honed through years of
: exertion..."

: I almost gave myself an asthma attack when I first read that.

You're right, that's pretty awful too. There's just something about
hearing (in my mind's ear) his smarmy voice saying "I shall prove my
fealty this evening"...aaaargh!

--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com

Jason Compton

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Aug 22, 2001, 5:19:15 PM8/22/01
to
N. M. Wallace <dark...@pardalis.org> wrote:

: *grin* My biggest issue with Anomen is his entire soundset. For whatever


: reason, that particular voice actor (who someone claimed is Rob Paulsen,
: the guy who does Pinky in Pinky and the Brain)

That was me, based on the Chris Borders cast list.

--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com

Jason E. Hubred

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Aug 23, 2001, 2:25:53 PM8/23/01
to

Mike Horner wrote in message ...

Um... Couldn't you just go get Anomen back after he goes charging off to
kill Saerk?


Jason Compton

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Aug 23, 2001, 2:37:51 PM8/23/01
to
Jason E. Hubred <jehu...@maxminn.com> wrote:

: Um... Couldn't you just go get Anomen back after he goes charging off to
: kill Saerk?

I do believe that's what's expected of the PC...

--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com

N. M. Wallace

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Aug 23, 2001, 2:59:31 PM8/23/01
to

*grin* My character Sionel would almost certainly reply: "Why wait 'til
this evening? Start stripping, Knight Boy!"

TwinIon

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Aug 23, 2001, 5:03:44 PM8/23/01
to
He's Morte in Planescape Torment. You can think of him as the floating
skull. :)

"N. M. Wallace" <dark...@pardalis.org> wrote in
news:Pine.LNX.4.33L2.01082...@grace.speakeasy.net:

Mike Horner

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Aug 24, 2001, 4:27:20 AM8/24/01
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Jason Compton <jcom...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message news:<9m3ihv$390$1...@flood.xnet.com>...

> Jason E. Hubred <jehu...@maxminn.com> wrote:
>
> : Um... Couldn't you just go get Anomen back after he goes charging off to
> : kill Saerk?
>
> I do believe that's what's expected of the PC...

Oooh no, you can't. Well, I couldn't. Anomen kills Saerk, is
overcome with remorse, and buggers off for good. Other people have
been luckier than me (if keeping Anomen is lucky?) but I couldn't find
any dialogue sequences that kept him in the game.

Mike

Leo Fellmann

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Aug 24, 2001, 2:36:10 PM8/24/01
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"D. Vrabel" <dv...@cam.ac.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3B841834...@cam.ac.uk...

*gasp* I always knew it looked like a black ooze!

Leo Fellmann

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Aug 24, 2001, 2:37:40 PM8/24/01
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"Jason Compton" <jcom...@typhoon.xnet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9m17je$ec$1...@flood.xnet.com...

Messing around with BGII internals today, I noticed that Anomen seems to
improve his dialogs in ToB, even apologising for sounding so corny...


Baby Brain

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Aug 24, 2001, 3:59:42 PM8/24/01
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"Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:U9xh7.430$6J1.1...@nnrp3.proxad.net...

Well its a small improvement over his previous dialogues. Still if he wants
to make female PCs happy perhaps a promise to go away and comit ritual
suicide after the adventures over would better get the job done.


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