BG2 - What's the *BEST* Dual Class Option?
Hosun Specious Lee
I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
hassle.
--
\\ \\ Hosun S. Lee // Vorpal Bunny(TM) // http://www.vorpalbunny.com
\\-\\ "Why it is that Xavier's team has impressive skills, while
( 0-0) Magneto's team has specialties that would prove invaluable to
{_^_} a stripper?" -- Roger Ebert on X-MEN - The Movie.
Steve Lamb
hit points from the fighter part, it's a role I like to play because I
like to be at the front, and I love hiding in shadows and backstabing
my enemies (kill them in one hit, yes!). May take the Wizard Slayer kit
as well for added fun (though I'm not sure if I can live with the
downsides of that yet).
--Steve
P.S. This is my first post to this cool group, so hello everybody :)
In article <8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Gandelon
news:8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
>
> I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> hassle.
IMO, from what I've seen, the game's true dreadnought would be a
dual-classed fighter/ druid, level 13/14. This allows you to max out on
druid and still get the best of the fighter (at least in terms of #
attacks, you'll still be missing a few points on THACO.) Also, you can
expect to go a LONG time before you get your fighter skills back, though
druids get their early levels quite easily. Haven't tried this one yet, so
all this is theoretical.
Another approach would be a dual-class swashbuckler/mage. The swashbuckler
fights better than a normal thief, and can dual wield. If you dual at level
11 you can still max in mage, if you dual at 13 you will lose one level of
mage but can specialize in a weapon AND get three stars in dual wield and
shave off another point of THACO and of course get more thief skills.
Believe you give up one lv 7 & one lv 8 spell for this (you max at mage 16
instead of 17.) Once again, though, it'll be a long climb as a mage until
you get your thief and fighting skills back. It's worth noting a few other
things here: a lv 13 swashbuckler is very roughly the equal of a lv 9
fighter... but with thief skills. Also, there's a bug that gives any dual
kit/ mage the same spell selection as a specialist mage... without an
opposition school.
Charles J DeVito
Gandelon <mul...@modex.com> wrote in message
news:stp4cca...@corp.supernews.com...
> Another approach would be a dual-class swashbuckler/mage.
This is what I'm doing right now...
>The swashbuckler
> fights better than a normal thief, and can dual wield.
OTOH, put two points in single weapon skill and you get -2 to your armor
class, on top of the swashbuckler's normal AC reduction bonuses. Useful for
a mage.
--
Charles J DeVito
Ravenheart Enterprises
rh...@gte.net
Mike Pollmann
>
> I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> hassle.
>
>
In BG1, Fighter/Thief worked really well since you were able to do
massive amounts of damage (And usually hit, too) with a backstab. In
BG2, I believe a similar and even deadlier combo would be
Fighter/Assassin. Assassin's get to a higher max backstab modifier and
their poison ability is great. I was going to try this, until I
remembered that I made my guy up as an Elf, so I can't. Oops.
- Mike
ske...@my-deja.com
Hosun Specious Lee <ho...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> sound very interesting to me.
Not trying to change your mind, but I am all about fighter-->mage and it
rocks. I took my character to lv 5 fighter in BG1 then dualed to
conjurer. now he's lv5 figher/lv 11 mage. for me, at least, there are a
couple of keys. defensively, i now have a major spellcaster with ~100
hps (con bonuses and familiar). having those extra fighter hps is
invaluable for a spellcaster, esp. at lower levels. But it doesn't stop
there.
Offensively, my character also has 4 stars in longbow and 3 in 2handed
sword. I generally keep him in the back and he is devastating with the
bow and can switch to spellcasting at will b/c he's not in the middle of
the fray. BUT... if need be, he can melee with the best of them. With
armor, his ac is easily in the -4 range and even without, with the right
magic items he's around 0 or -1 (and i expect that to get lower).
Overall, he's a kickass mage and howitzer-like archer who can also go
toe-to-toe with just about anything (oh yeah, stoneskin and/or
protection from normal/magical weapons doesn't hurt in melee). No wonder
he has 2x as many kills as anyone else (party is Keldorn, Minsc,
Jaheira, Yoshimo, Aerie and me).
cheers
s
Scott Jelinek
Gandelon wrote:
> IMO, from what I've seen, the game's true dreadnought would be a
> dual-classed fighter/ druid, level 13/14. This allows you to max out on
> druid and still get the best of the fighter (at least in terms of #
> attacks, you'll still be missing a few points on THACO.) Also, you can
> expect to go a LONG time before you get your fighter skills back, though
> druids get their early levels quite easily. Haven't tried this one yet, so
> all this is theoretical.
If the point of dual classing is seeing the benefits from both classes, you
probably will never see it in the game with that combo. You would have to dual
class at a much earlier level.
Patrick Casey
Kensai Mage.
The Kensai can't wear armor anyway, so dualing him to a mage is not
biggy. Additionally, he gets enough thaco benefits that even a lvl 9 kensai
can connect reasonably well with the top end mobs in the game.
Add in mage self buffs e.g. armor, fire shield, various immunitites,
etc, and the Kensai/mage combo is just dynamite.
"Hosun Specious Lee" <ho...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
>
> I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> hassle.
>
monk
around. But if you do, it would really suck. Assassin has to be level 20
to get his X7 backstab, or level 15 to get his X6 backstab. Fighters top
off at level 19 I believe and getting to level 15 will take you the majority
of the game. How suck would that be if you can only use your dual character
on the remaining 20% of the game and the rest of the 80% is trying to build
him up?
The best option is to start with a berserker and play him to level 10
(giving mastery in a weapon & 3 slot in dual wield) and then dual to a
thief. The thief rises in level pretty fast.
"Mike Pollmann" <mpol...@NOtelocity.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:MPG.1446549d4...@news.telocity.com...
> In article <8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net>, ho...@primenet.com says...
> >
> > I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> > was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> > route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> > sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> > flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> > hassle.
> >
> >
>
monk
combo. The mage can just sit back and pick off the enemy one by one without
getting hurt. Your team will always have air support.
"Patrick Casey" <pca...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:_P4D5.19568$TP6.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Kensai Mage.
>
> The Kensai can't wear armor anyway, so dualing him to a mage is not
> biggy. Additionally, he gets enough thaco benefits that even a lvl 9
kensai
> can connect reasonably well with the top end mobs in the game.
> Add in mage self buffs e.g. armor, fire shield, various immunitites,
> etc, and the Kensai/mage combo is just dynamite.
> "Hosun Specious Lee" <ho...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> news:8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
> >
> > I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> > was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> > route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> > sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> > flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> > hassle.
> >
JCyo
a 2-handed weapon. my current character 9th level fighter/10th level mage
has 19 str, con, dex, and int (imported my char from bg1, found most of the
stat increase books) is a killing machine with his magic bow.
JCyo
to a fighter/mage?
<ske...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8riac8$b7f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net>,
> Hosun Specious Lee <ho...@primenet.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> > was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> > route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> > sound very interesting to me.
>
Siawo
anyone post some more info!!
"Mike Pollmann" <mpol...@NOtelocity.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:MPG.1446549d4...@news.telocity.com...
> In article <8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net>, ho...@primenet.com says...
> >
> > I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> > was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> > route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> > sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> > flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> > hassle.
> >
> >
>
Siawo
At first I thought I would dual at 11 so I can still max as a Mage but the
two extra spells were not worth the poison bonus and the extra backstab
modifier so I decided to Dual at level 13. I'm gonna be specialising in
Katanas (Mostly)/Short Bows (Partialy) and Dual Wielding!! I might spare a
few points in Staves and two handed weapons since the Staff of Magi and
Staff of the Woodlands looks very very nice but for now I'm going for the
following weapons (possible spoiler):
Celestial Fury (Katana with very nice special abilities and +3 to damage and
THAC0)
Dakkon's Blade (Katana also nice damage +2 but gives +1 to AC and grants one
extra 1-4 level spells!!)
Short Bow Gesen (Short bow with nice modifiers and adds bonus piercing and
electrical damage!!)
"Hosun Specious Lee" <ho...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
>
> I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> hassle.
>
Alex
<_P4D5.19568$TP6.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
>
> Kensai Mage.
Before I started the game I thought the same, but as there
already were many kensai/mages around I've tried something
different -- berserker/mage. He's under iron skin protection
most of the time + combination of some other stat improving
and spell protecting spells. When in rage he's almost immune
to any mind disrupting effects, very good AC minimizes
chances of being hit by something heavy and/or sharp. So
he does the simplest thing: leaves the party behind and
does the battle alone.
Though berserker/thief is probably better combo. berseker/mage
occasionally lands 50+ blow with comment "solid hit".
I wonder how berserker/thief would comment 200+ hit :)
Alex.
>
> The Kensai can't wear armor anyway, so dualing him to a mage is not
>biggy. Additionally, he gets enough thaco benefits that even a lvl 9
>kensai can connect reasonably well with the top end mobs in the game.
> Add in mage self buffs e.g. armor, fire shield, various immunitites,
>etc, and the Kensai/mage combo is just dynamite.
John Dassow
<r8epts0puev4ffvpn...@4ax.com>:
>
>Stop thinking in terms of what the cap allows. In all probability you
>will NOT get enough experience to actually hit the cap if you have a 6
>character party.
>
Actually, I'm just at the beginning of chapter 6 and I'm pretty close to
the cap (2,750,000 exp), so I shouldn't have any problems hitting it before
the game ends. Honestly, I don't know why they even bothered to have one.
-john dassow
Jonathan Epp
backstabbing heaven.
On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:41:46 GMT, "Patrick Casey"
<pca...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Kensai Mage.
Twin Ion Engine
In article <_P4D5.19568$TP6.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Patrick
Siawo
"Gandelon" <mul...@modex.com> wrote in message
news:stp4cca...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hosun Specious Lee <ho...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> news:8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
> >
> > I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> > was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> > route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> > sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> > flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> > hassle.
>
> IMO, from what I've seen, the game's true dreadnought would be a
> dual-classed fighter/ druid, level 13/14. This allows you to max out on
> druid and still get the best of the fighter (at least in terms of #
> attacks, you'll still be missing a few points on THACO.) Also, you can
> expect to go a LONG time before you get your fighter skills back, though
> druids get their early levels quite easily. Haven't tried this one yet,
so
> all this is theoretical.
>
> Another approach would be a dual-class swashbuckler/mage. The
swashbuckler
Gandelon
Scott Jelinek <fire...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:39DCCEBD...@harborside.com...
>
>
> Gandelon wrote:
>
> > IMO, from what I've seen, the game's true dreadnought would be a
> > dual-classed fighter/ druid, level 13/14. This allows you to max out on
> > druid and still get the best of the fighter (at least in terms of #
> > attacks, you'll still be missing a few points on THACO.) Also, you can
> > expect to go a LONG time before you get your fighter skills back, though
> > druids get their early levels quite easily. Haven't tried this one yet,
so
> > all this is theoretical.
>
you
> probably will never see it in the game with that combo. You would have to
dual
> class at a much earlier level.
Well, I should have mentioned that in order to pull this off, you'll have to
go with a much smaller party or even solo for a while. I haven't gotten
past chapter 2 yet, but my understanding is that, like IWD, BG2 won't get
you anywhere near the XP cap if you use a 6-member party. But smaller
parties are certainly viable. Got my swashbuckler-who-will-dual-to-mage up
to level 12, very close to 13 on the second of the "stronghold" quests (did
Nalia's, now at Umar) but with a party consisting of swashbuckler, Jahiera,
and Minsc. If I had it to do over again, I'd even be tempted to solo the
swashbuckler 'till 13 then pick up some help through the mage levels.
Gandelon
Siawo <owai...@get2net.dk> wrote in message
news:Q%hD5.228$sp1....@news.get2net.dk...
> Can theives specialise in weapons??
I think swashbuckler is the only thief kit that can. You don't get the
extra 1/2 attack for specialization, but you do get the +1/+2 hit/damage.
Swashbuckler can also go up to *** in dual-wield, which is handy since it
doubles their otherwise totally inadequate #/ attacks.
You lose the ability to backstab, of course.
Thomas Jørgen Wold Hansen
> >IMO, from what I've seen, the game's true dreadnought would be a
> >dual-classed fighter/ druid, level 13/14.
>
> As far as I can tell, the most powerful character through the game would be
> a fighter -> mage, dual classed at level 9 (to spend minimal time as a pure
> mage). Especially a Kensai. Especially at high levels, mages have
> considerably more punch than clerics, and Tenser's Transformation on a
> fighter mage has to be seen to be believed. The mage's personal anti-magic
> and anti-weapon protective spells are also pretty sweet on a melee fighter.
Oh yes.. I'm going solo with a dual fighter mage 9/14 in IWD an the badies are
in imense trouble :). With mirror image, stoneskin and ac -8 (and thats with
a robe!) that guy is quite invincible.
thomas
randolp...@my-deja.com
> IMO, from what I've seen, the game's true dreadnought would be a
on
> druid and still get the best of the fighter (at least in terms of #
> attacks, you'll still be missing a few points on THACO.) Also, you
can
> expect to go a LONG time before you get your fighter skills back,
though
> druids get their early levels quite easily. Haven't tried this one
yet, so
> all this is theoretical.
>
swashbuckler
> fights better than a normal thief, and can dual wield. If you dual
at level
> 11 you can still max in mage, if you dual at 13 you will lose one
level of
> mage but can specialize in a weapon AND get three stars in dual wield
and
> shave off another point of THACO and of course get more thief skills.
> Believe you give up one lv 7 & one lv 8 spell for this (you max at
mage 16
> instead of 17.) Once again, though, it'll be a long climb as a mage
until
> you get your thief and fighting skills back. It's worth noting a few
other
> things here: a lv 13 swashbuckler is very roughly the equal of a lv 9
> fighter... but with thief skills. Also, there's a bug that gives any
dual
> kit/ mage the same spell selection as a specialist mage... without an
> opposition school.
Ranger 8 - Cleric 18+ looks good to me.
1) I've made a personal rule against adjusting dice rolls. Rerolls are
OK though. This makes for a nice spread of character abilities that
are pretty much on par with the NPCs, and, in my opinion, makes the
game a bit more interesting, as you have to compensate for weaknesses,
and you sometimes have unusual strengths. Using this method, you can
still make a very nice ranger-cleric dual. (In my case, 17 str, 16
dex, 15 con, 18 wis) This takes advantage of one of the ranger's most
overlooked qualities - very high characteristic minimums. The minimums
are there for a reason, so taking advantage of them doesn't feel like
too much of an exploit to me.
2) Extra stars in dual wield. At 7th level, a dual wielding ranger is
pretty close to a maxed out fighter when it comes to "number of
attacks." Also, with the new specialization rules, fighters gain a lot
less advantage over rangers and paladins in their weapons
specialization.
3) Clerical power-ups. Call upon holy might is a great start, and
there are plenty of others along the way.
4) Lack of good clerics in BG2. Hmm The evil Viconia vs. the stupid
Anomen. I think I'll just do it myself.
5) Great hitpoints. If you give a fighter and a cleric 3,000,000
experience and a 16 con, the fighter will only have a bit more
hitpoints on average. Of course most people just give them 18 cons,
but that not necessarily an option for me.
6) Ranger stealth.
7) Armor. I didn't pick a ranger kit, because I'm interested in using
heavy armor and metal weapons. While I understand that you can have a
nice AC using leather and various AC adders, you can have a much nicer
AC if you start with full plate. Full plate also has some nice
modifiers against various kinds of damage. On the other hand, elven
chain, for example is somewhat poor vs blunt damage. I suspect that a
bracer-clad figher-mage with AC -10 will not defend nearly as well as a
berserker with AC -10; partly due the the extra effects of "armor type"
and partly because high-grade armor tends to come with extra effects.
8) Mage spells. Ugh. All the new spell-counter spell crud takes a lot
of the fun out of spell slinging. After looking through both lists,
the cleric spells just looked more fun. This may be influenced by the
mage-heavy parties I ran through BG1 and IWD. In both of those games,
my lead was a fighter-conjurer dual, so I know what I'm giving up.
9) The possibility of getting druid spells as well. This was true in
BG1 and in IWD, but I have yet to find out whether its true in BG2. If
it is, this combo is that much sweeter. In any event, this is just
icing on the cake if it is true. (I'm only an 8/8 right now, waiting
eagerly for my benefits to take effect.)
You could probably dual at 7th level ranger and be about as good; you
give up a few hit points and a druid spell. If you wait till 9th
level, you give up a clerical level, which more than offsets what you
get.
Lamrok
ske...@my-deja.com
"JCyo" <jc4...@REMOVETHESECAPShotmail.com> wrote:
> did your character stay as a fighter/conjurer in bg2? or did it change
him
> to a fighter/mage?
the latter. I lost the bonus spell per level.
Adrian Jackson
wrote:
>I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
>was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
>route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
>sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
>flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
>hassle.
Well, I don't know about "best," but I'm VERY happy with my
dual-classed kensai/mage (dualled from kensai at level 7). Cool thing
about that combo is, you can still wear robes of the archmagi (an
armor)! I don't know if that's a bug or not, but, combined with an 18
dex, this lowers your AC to -1. You can further augment this with an
item "of protection." Furthermore, against some of the high-powered
mages in the game, you can't just run up and start hacking (it'll
either hurt you or won't hurt him, or both). You'll have to engage
him in a mage war first. With the kensai/mage, you can do that. For
those times when you CAN just run up and start hacking, grandmastery
in your one-handed weapon of choice, plus three stars in dual-wield,
plus haste, will turn your character into a veritable caricature of a
cuisinart.
About the only thing intrinsically uninteresting about the kensai/mage
is that he (or she) uses the old boring fighter avatar.
Really, anything dualled with a fighter would be pretty useful in BG2.
You'll be doing a lot of trap finding, so a fighter/thief would let
you do that while still being able to hold your own at the head of the
party. A fighter/cleric would be a good alternative to a fighter/mage
(they have a nice variety of summoning and incapacitating spells).
A non-pure-fighter dual-class isn't my cup of tea, although there are
certainly some interesting combinations there. A ranger/cleric, for
instance, would force you to rethink the standard "long sword and bow"
vision of the ranger. A thief/mage with a bent toward stealth would
be great for hit-and-run attacks (hide, scout, cast, run).
So anyway, my favorite combo is kensai/mage, although there are often
times I wish my character had some thief or cleric training.
Atlus Seven
> Kensai Mage.
>
> The Kensai can't wear armor anyway, so dualing him to a mage is not
>biggy.
Yup. That, and a Kensai/Mage in BG2 can indeed wear Robes. Niiiice. =D
>Additionally, he gets enough thaco benefits that even a lvl 9 kensai
>can connect reasonably well with the top end mobs in the game.
IIRC, a Level 9 Kensai/Level 17 Mage will have a THAC0 of around 1 (with *** in
you weapon of choice and 19 Strength).
Smooth like Reggie Miller in an airborne freeze-frame......
....Funky like the Kung-Fu that can put you to shame. =D
Atlus Seven
>I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks.
Well, as you probably already know from all the other posts, Kensai/Mage is
probably the best Dual Class option (for powergaming, of course). But you
don't want to follow the crowd, right? =D Try something off the wall. I had
a Swashbuckler/Fighter that knew how to use so many damn weapons it was
rediculous. Ranger/Cleric is nice (can use both Cleric and Druid Spells).
Swashbuckler/Mage is probably the most self-sufficient class in the game, thus
the best choice for going solo. Cleric/Mage can be good as well with the
careful amount of planning.
>I'm looking for a combo that allows for
>flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
>hassle.
Hmm.....then definatly go with Swashbuckler/Mage. They're almost like being a
Fighter/Theif/Mage multi-class. You'll have pretty decent combat abilities,
access to all Theif Skills, and magic backup. Can't get more flexible than
that.
Atlus Seven
>Stop thinking in terms of what the cap allows. In all probability you will
>NOT get enough experience to actually hit the cap if you have a 6 character
>party.
That's BS. I've beaten the game once already and all 6 of my characters have
hit the XP cap. There's more than enough XP available in the game to do so.
You just have to do all of the quests available with all the various NPCs,
leave no stone, building, etc unturned, and kill every enemy you come across.
Trust me--you CAN hit the cap with a 6 person party.
Lucian Wischik
>8) Mage spells. Ugh. All the new spell-counter spell crud takes a lot
>of the fun out of spell slinging.
I disagree totally! Having mages cast offensive spells, and protections,
and counter-protections, and counter-counter protections, all in glorious
special effects, made mage duels special. Like in a film.
Without these things, a mage's offensive spells would basically be like a
machine-gun. With them, it turns the battle into something deeper.
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Molly
>him
>> to a fighter/mage?
Well, I just imported my conjurer and she's still a conjurer, but I suppose
that might not work for multiclassed characters...
-----------------------------------------------
~Molly ........Hiss...@aol.com
"Never fear shadows, they just
mean that there is a light shining
somewhere nearby."
-----------------------------------------------
hahntsak
when is teamBG gonnna get a rules thingy so we can set our own numbers up for
stuff like we had in BG1?..... anyway i'm betting the next expansion finally
gets us to waterdeep...hoping then ...
hahntsak
swashbuckler 9th level-stalker11th level-avenger13th level-sorcerer 15th level
could kick that barbarian 12th/Monk17th levels butt, huh?
Siawo wrote:
> I'm going for an Assassin(13)/Mage(16)
> At first I thought I would dual at 11 so I can still max as a Mage but the
> two extra spells were not worth the poison bonus and the extra backstab
> modifier so I decided to Dual at level 13. I'm gonna be specialising in
> Katanas (Mostly)/Short Bows (Partialy) and Dual Wielding!! I might spare a
> few points in Staves and two handed weapons since the Staff of Magi and
> Staff of the Woodlands looks very very nice but for now I'm going for the
> following weapons (possible spoiler):
>
> Celestial Fury (Katana with very nice special abilities and +3 to damage and
> THAC0)
> Dakkon's Blade (Katana also nice damage +2 but gives +1 to AC and grants one
> extra 1-4 level spells!!)
> Short Bow Gesen (Short bow with nice modifiers and adds bonus piercing and
> electrical damage!!)
>
> "Hosun Specious Lee" <ho...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> news:8ri2ie$bo1$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
> >
> > I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> > was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> > route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> > sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> > flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> > hassle.
> >
Sergey Dashevskiy
to be fighter-swashbuckler, but you can't dual class from or to a kit.
But still, consider a thief that starts with 140 hitpoints, and grand
mastery in your weapon of choice.
In article <39E85282...@yahoo.com>, hahn...@yahoo.com says...
Ykalon Dragon
>
> Oh? I'm liking my fighter --> thief quite a bit. The original plan was
> to be fighter-swashbuckler, but you can't dual class from or to a kit.
> But still, consider a thief that starts with 140 hitpoints, and grand
> mastery in your weapon of choice.
You can't dual to a kit but you can dual *from* a kit. Or else I
couldn't play my Kensai/mage.
Sergey Dashevskiy
Hmm, very strange. I've noticed that you can't dual to a kit myself. I
read about dualing from a kit in the manual. Can your mage use his
Kensai specific abilities? Like Kai, and weapon speed bonuses? Just
trying to figure out how it works, not flaming :)
Doug Stanley
> > You can't dual to a kit but you can dual *from* a kit. Or else I
> > couldn't play my Kensai/mage.
> >
>
> Hmm, very strange. I've noticed that you can't dual to a kit myself.
I
> read about dualing from a kit in the manual. Can your mage use his
> Kensai specific abilities? Like Kai, and weapon speed bonuses? Just
> trying to figure out how it works, not flaming :)
>
Yes a Kensai/Mage gets all the usual Kensai bonuses and abilities back
once he reaches a higher level in his mage class than his Kensai class.
DCheesi
In theory I would agree with you; the spell/counterspell game should
make for a pretty show. In practice, however, trying to keep track of
which counter breaks which spell (and then figuring out the right order
to cast them in) becomes rather tedious. Plus it fills up half my spell
list on just those high level counterspells, which I don't use for 90%
of the game.
I enjoy reading up on the rules and details of the game, but there's a
point where it just gets to be to much; for me, this is it. Do we really
need Breach AND Pierce Magic? Or Oracle AND True Seeing? Aren't these
different versions of the same thing? Why can't we have one counterspell
for all effects of the same type? Just give me some nice universal
dispel magic and remove invisibility spells, and let me get on with it.
DCheesi
--
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always boom
tomorrow. -Ivanova, B5
R. Mast
>
> In article <8rmd00$1rk$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
> ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) wrote:
> make for a pretty show. In practice, however, trying to keep track of
> which counter breaks which spell (and then figuring out the right order
> to cast them in) becomes rather tedious. Plus it fills up half my spell
> list on just those high level counterspells, which I don't use for 90%
> of the game.
>
> I enjoy reading up on the rules and details of the game, but there's a
> point where it just gets to be to much; for me, this is it. Do we really
> need Breach AND Pierce Magic? Or Oracle AND True Seeing? Aren't these
> different versions of the same thing? Why can't we have one counterspell
> for all effects of the same type? Just give me some nice universal
> dispel magic and remove invisibility spells, and let me get on with it.
>
Then why give mage's protections at all, because you'll just break them in one
shot. In that case, why not just make the mage have only one hitpoint. It's a
foregone conclusion that I'll reload till I'm good enough to beat him, so let me
just get on with it. Actually, I'm not even going to play the game anymore, as
I've realized those enemies are only put there by cheating designers hoping that
I'll never beat their game. ;)
--
-R. Mast is a wicked child.
This your golden handshake
This is an hallucination
And these faces are in a dream
'Here I'm allowed...anything all of the time'
Hosun Specious Lee
: DCheesi wrote:
: >
: > In article <8rmd00$1rk$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
: > ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) wrote:
: >
: > In theory I would agree with you; the spell/counterspell game should
: > make for a pretty show. In practice, however, trying to keep track of
: > which counter breaks which spell (and then figuring out the right order
: > to cast them in) becomes rather tedious. Plus it fills up half my spell
: > list on just those high level counterspells, which I don't use for 90%
: > of the game.
: >
: > I enjoy reading up on the rules and details of the game, but there's a
: > point where it just gets to be to much; for me, this is it. Do we really
: > need Breach AND Pierce Magic? Or Oracle AND True Seeing? Aren't these
: > different versions of the same thing? Why can't we have one counterspell
: > for all effects of the same type? Just give me some nice universal
: > dispel magic and remove invisibility spells, and let me get on with it.
: >
: Then why give mage's protections at all, because you'll just break them in one
: shot. In that case, why not just make the mage have only one hitpoint. It's a
: foregone conclusion that I'll reload till I'm good enough to beat him, so let me
: just get on with it. Actually, I'm not even going to play the game anymore, as
: I've realized those enemies are only put there by cheating designers hoping that
: I'll never beat their game. ;)
I'd like to see just one dispel spell used, dispel magic. So each instance
takes out one level of defense, period. Whether's it spell x or spell z. I
wouldn't mind seeing a higher level dispel magic (remove magic) that
removes ONLY enemy spells, or requiring something unique for more esoteric
spells such as stoneskin.
But really, casting three different spells one after another, and
remembering which order to cast them? Most of the time, the NPCs cast the
same protective spells anyway. I don't mind casting 3-5-6-8 spells to
knock their defenses down. I do mind casting so many different spells,
especially when you have to guess at some of the spells that are up.
Atlus Seven
>In theory I would agree with you; the spell/counterspell game should
>make for a pretty show. In practice, however, trying to keep track of
>which counter breaks which spell (and then figuring out the right order
>to cast them in) becomes rather tedious. Plus it fills up half my spell
>list on just those high level counterspells, which I don't use for 90%
>of the game.
>
>I enjoy reading up on the rules and details of the game, but there's a
>point where it just gets to be to much; for me, this is it. Do we really
>need Breach AND Pierce Magic? Or Oracle AND True Seeing? Aren't these
>different versions of the same thing? Why can't we have one counterspell
>for all effects of the same type? Just give me some nice universal
>dispel magic and remove invisibility spells, and let me get on with it.
This is precicely why a Mage is considered a "thinking man's class of choice".
IE--they're not for everyone. Remember that one thread where someone was going
off on the fact that they think the Mage system in DnD is flawed, and that they
can't seem to use a Mage effectively? Yet numerous posts were given in
response to this fellow stating that they can wreak some havok with them. Why?
Because these people know how to use the Mage the way they're intended. Just
like the Mage him/herself, the person controlling the Mage must do his
homework--read up on all the spells different effects, memorizing what spell
does what, what spell to use in response to an enemy's spell, etc. It's a
long, grueling process, but the rewards are very great. Once you do all your
research and get everything down pat, there's pretty much nothing a Mage cannot
handle on his/her own. You cant' just choose to be a Mage and start slinging
spells blindly. You have to stop for a second and THINK about what your next
move is gonna be (like chess). The best way to practice using a Mage is to use
the in-game cheats to spawn a very powerful enemy Mage, and use your own high
level Mage and do a one-on-one Magic Duel with him/her. By doing this, you'll
learn what spells are best against certain other spells and how to effectively
use your arsenal of spells to bring down the enemy in the least amount of time.
Not only that, but it's fun as hell. Try it sometime if you have some spare
time laying around. And if you REALLY want to have some fun, do what I
do--don't give your own Mage ANY magical Items. My Mage has the personality of
a purist--he despises relying on magical items in his art. To him, magical
items are not a true test of one's magic skills. He carries a simple
Quarterstaff and a few Scroll Cases for his spare scrolls. The only reason he
wears the Robes of the Neutral Archmagi is because, to me, they look cool on
him....and i'm working with an item editor to remove ALL the AC bonuses and
saving throw bonuses that come with them (so he'll not only be a TRUE purist
mage, but he'll look super-fly =).
On another note (concerning the need for similiar type spells such as Breach
and Pierce Magic)--the reason for having similar spells is to allow a Mage of a
lower level to be able to do similar things that a high level Mage can do. In
other words, so your semi-low level Mage will be able to break down an enemy
spell caster's defenses, so you're character's won't be helpless should you
come across a Mage capable of casting numerous protection spells. Another
reason is because, as far as Mages in DnD go, they're able to perfect and hone
their casting abilities over time--with practice and research. For example--a
mage learns the Breach spell. Cool--he can break down other spellcaster's
defenses. But over time with a little experimenting and research, he learns
that if he adds such-and-such component, and maybe add in a few more words to
the spell, he can not only break down the defensive spells of another mage, but
he can also lower their magic resistance. Hence he develops a new
spell....called Pierce.
But alas. I can indeed completely understand your dilemma. Trying to use a
Mage effectively can be one hell of a chore. But it also helps to have a
fundamental understanding of PnP DnD to help justify the need for having
numerous spells at your disposal. If you have the spare cash, try picking up
the 2nd Edition Players Handbook one day and read up on Mages. Or maybe even
get one of the Mage suppliment books. They make for good reading, and at the
same time help you to use a Mage in DnD CRPGs more effectively.
Hope this helps you out some. =D
Werner Arend
On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, DCheesi wrote:
> > I disagree totally! Having mages cast offensive spells, and
> protections,
> > and counter-protections, and counter-counter protections, all in
> glorious
> > special effects, made mage duels special. Like in a film.
> >
> > Without these things, a mage's offensive spells would basically be
> like a
> > machine-gun. With them, it turns the battle into something deeper.
> >
> > --
> > Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
> >
>
> In theory I would agree with you; the spell/counterspell game should
> make for a pretty show. In practice, however, trying to keep track of
> which counter breaks which spell (and then figuring out the right order
> to cast them in) becomes rather tedious. Plus it fills up half my spell
> list on just those high level counterspells, which I don't use for 90%
> of the game.
>
> I enjoy reading up on the rules and details of the game, but there's a
> point where it just gets to be to much; for me, this is it. Do we really
> need Breach AND Pierce Magic? Or Oracle AND True Seeing? Aren't these
> different versions of the same thing? Why can't we have one counterspell
> for all effects of the same type? Just give me some nice universal
> dispel magic and remove invisibility spells, and let me get on with it.
You only ever need True Seeing. You don't need Oracle.
You have one kind of spells to bring down protections against magic and
one to bring down protections against physical attacks. Sounds pretty
straightforward to me.
The reason you have more than one spell in every category is that there
are characters who haven't reached L14 yet, for example, where they can
use Ruby Ray of Reversal. That's a flaw in the spell system. If you have
spell levels that are limited in their use by character levels, you'll
need a spell of a certain kind and appropriate power every two spell
levels.
Werner
xbish...@gmail.com
Auric__
the game. If I'm not soloing, I like berserker-mage.
Monks are uber-powerful once they get to a high-enough level.
--
Having sworn fealty, must I spend my life in servitude?
bernhar...@gmail.com
Also damn, this thread was bumped from 18 years ago and is still relevant.
Sharkistas
> I was wondering what the best dual class has been for some folks. I
> was thinking of creating a new character, but I'm not sure what
> route to follow. Fighter/mage is obviously beneficial, but it doesn't
> sound very interesting to me. I'm looking for a combo that allows for
> flexibility, cool skills and the ability to level up without too much
> hassle.
>
> \\ \\ Hosun S. Lee // Vorpal Bunny(TM) // http://www.vorpalbunny.com
> \\-\\ "Why it is that Xavier's team has impressive skills, while
> ( 0-0) Magneto's team has specialties that would prove invaluable to
> {_^_} a stripper?" -- Roger Ebert on X-MEN - The Movie.
And I'm so happy that you beautiful people are still on here! :D