Evil Parties
Sean Kasun
20 (heroic) to 15 (neutral) to 10 (disliked)
to (5) despised to (0) infamous.
What's the point of that, you ask? If you achieve a reputation of infamous,
the store keepers, guards, and all good people shouldn't "break" when they
see you, they should fear you. Storekeepers give you a discount because
they're afraid that you'll kill them if they charge too much. This way you
can reasonably play an evil party.
-sean
A K
Except that lowering rep beyond a certain point should take a lot of work.
For example, killing Drizzt could lower you 10 points automatically, all
the way to 0, but killing flaming fist and innocent children will only get
you to 5, and thus get you the bad part without any of the perquisites of
infamy. Other examples, pulling from BG, could be the smith at the
Thunderhammer, Elminster (-30 points!), the dukes of BG, or Scar.
Basically, anyone famous in his own right (some more than others - Scar
would be worth 1 point below 5, the dukes 3, Elminster and Drizzt all the
way down)
Since you seem to have the inside track on an evil party, what would you
suggest for one? I'm thinking my character, whatever it may be, Imoen,
Montaron, Xzar, Edwin, Viconia. Maybe kill off Xzar once i get to Beregost
and sub in Kagain instead. I want an evil, EVIL party. One that'll make me
worthy of taking Bhaal's place. Of course, subverting Imoen would only add
to the fun, the poor child... :)
The Raven
PS Is there such a thing as a helm of opposite alignment? What if I slap
it on a paladin like Ajantis? Does he become fallen, or keep his
abilities?
Sean Kasun
A K wrote in message ...
>Since you seem to have the inside track on an evil party, what would you
>suggest for one? I'm thinking my character, whatever it may be, Imoen,
>Montaron, Xzar, Edwin, Viconia. Maybe kill off Xzar once i get to Beregost
>and sub in Kagain instead. I want an evil, EVIL party. One that'll make me
>worthy of taking Bhaal's place. Of course, subverting Imoen would only add
>to the fun, the poor child... :)
Definately use Kagain, Edwin, and Viconia. Also use Shar-teel. Leave Imoen
dead in front of candlekeep as a message to them not to F w/ you :)
>PS Is there such a thing as a helm of opposite alignment? What if I slap
>it on a paladin like Ajantis? Does he become fallen, or keep his
>abilities?
It exists, but you can't find it, you'd have to cheat it. And he won't
become fallen as long as his rep is above 8 or so... so you can have a
chaotic evil paladin :)
-sean
Blank Dave
>suggest for one? I'm thinking my character, whatever it may be, Imoen,
>Montaron, Xzar, Edwin, Viconia. Maybe kill off Xzar once i get to Beregost
>and sub in Kagain instead. I want an evil, EVIL party. One that'll make me
>worthy of taking Bhaal's place. Of course, subverting Imoen would only add
>to the fun, the poor child... :)
Well, I'm tempted to keep Xzar, just becasue he's funny ("quit touching
me!!" "Montaron....I didn't love you"), but it's a toss up between him and
Edwin, sho'd supposed to be good (as a character not a person). I think
I'll bump of Khalid for either Kagain or Shar Tel, that way I can keep
Jaheira for her healing powers (need a healer until after I can go to
Peldvale) Might replace Imoen with Safara, but not too sure. Same goes for
keeping Montaron, with Kagain or Shar Tel. Though so far, I've noticed
there's fewer evil characters with teh bow skill, I hope there's bolts of
detonation too.
Decissions, decissions.
Rus
Palidan or Ranger. To test this I had Minsc run off by himself and murder a
family which dropped my rep to down to 1 or 2. Immediately my Palidan lost
status, but Minsc was still a Ranger. When Minsc rejoined the rest of the
group, everyone left including Minsc who had committed the evil act. I was
trying to make Minsc a fallen Ranger so that he could gain extra slots in
the sword, but it doesn't work. The only one who can lose status is the
main character.
Russ
Bradd W. Szonye
>>Since you seem to have the inside track on an evil party, what would you
>>suggest for one?
>
>me!!" "Montaron....I didn't love you"), but it's a toss up between him and
>Edwin, sho'd supposed to be good (as a character not a person). I think
>I'll bump of Khalid for either Kagain or Shar Tel, that way I can keep
>Jaheira for her healing powers (need a healer until after I can go to
>Peldvale) Might replace Imoen with Safara, but not too sure. Same goes
for
>keeping Montaron, with Kagain or Shar Tel. Though so far, I've noticed
>there's fewer evil characters with teh bow skill, I hope there's bolts of
>detonation too.
My evil party:
Suzle (NE half-elf bard)
Shar-Teel
Kagain
Viconia
Edwin
Safana
I *just* dumped Imoen for Safana last night, and it was a great choice. I
don't know if thief skill advances are "scripted," but when I got Safana (at
4th level thief), she had her Open Locks skill nearly maxed out. Not a
single point devoted to pick pockets (my bard gets plenty of that already)
or stealth. In other words, exactly how I would have advanced a thief
myself. At 10th level with stealth boots/armor, her thief skills will be
100/100/100/20. Another 20 pts if I give her the Dex tome, but I think I
will actually give that to Shar-Teel now. The only major disappointment was
that she had missile weapons instead of bows, but then again now I have an
excellent reason to employ a fast dart-thrower.
Killing the sirens and flesh golems to satisfy her quest was, um, "fun,"
especially since there were more sirens than I anticipated on the way there.
Half my party leveled, however, which was nice.
It'll be so much easier and more fun to be evil now that I don't have to
worry about that goody-two-shoes Imoen getting mad and leaving me
thief-less. Also, I don't have to make any compromises like dual-classing
Shar-Teel to a thief, my previous idea for filling the thief role. Assuming
that she always comes with such a sensible skill allocation, I recommend
Safana highly for an evil party.
Bradd
Maarten de Mol
I am currently playing an evil party and it kicks butt:
-- Me (Fighter)
-- Kagain [must have; regenerating hp is COOL]
-- Montaron [cool conversation]
-- Xzar [cool conversation]
-- Viconia [50% magic resistance; say no more]
-- Shar-Teel [cool conversation]
(Yes, I like having many fighters in my party)
An alternative would be to drop Montaron+Xzar for
Safana+Edwin. Then you don't need to dual Shar-Teel to
thief (which is what I have to do).
A disadvantage is that you lack bow proficiency.
Shar-Teel only gets 2 slots at lvl 6, Montaron can only
get 2 as well. I am using my main fighter for melee
(longsword) and Kagain as well (axe).
Another disadvantage is that I have to dual Shar-Teel to
a thief at level 6, since Montaron can only get 2 skills
to 100% (Stealth+Detect Traps).
PS: Having FF jump out of every cupboard is not that bad.
Had to dodge them in the beginning, but now I can
take them on. When I don't feel leek fighting, I just
avoid them (which is possible).
And who needs shops anyway?
PS: I rushed to get Viconia at level 1. I am now at level
5 with her and she has 1 legal slot in blunt (or was it
spiked) weapons. I seem to recall reading somewhere
that when you get her later she actually gets 2
proficiency slots in one of those. Is this true?
--- MdM
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
kromm
<ska...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I've got it. In BG2 they need to alter the reputation. It should go from
>20 (heroic) to 15 (neutral) to 10 (disliked)
>to (5) despised to (0) infamous.
>
>What's the point of that, you ask? If you achieve a reputation of infamous,
>the store keepers, guards, and all good people shouldn't "break" when they
>see you, they should fear you. Storekeepers give you a discount because
>they're afraid that you'll kill them if they charge too much. This way you
>can reasonably play an evil party.
>
>-sean
>
>
I agree that there is little oppurtunity to rpg a "naughty" party. If
you follow the storyline, your CE character will eventually become a
hero. The only way to stop this (assuming that you don't want the rep
hit for killing neutrals, and have the FF popping out of cupboards and
bushes everywhere you go) is to pick locks in front of people and make
off with the 20 gp. Ohhh I'm sooo EVIL.
There could be great improvement here. I'd like to see quests that
cause rep loss. Once you have proven that you are an unsavory person,
I'd like to see other quests open up to you. Say, various rouges,
swindlers, charlatans approaching you with offers of profit,
self-indulgence, or revenge.
Who "owns" the courtesans in Bergerost anyways? Maybe somebody should
give this dude a shakedown ;<)
kromm
currently a good guy at rep 20 (intentionally)
Sean Kasun
Rockz wrote in message ...
>Doesn't this backfire when she needs to be cured?
>It would be real nice if the MR can be temporarily removed during
>healing.
Yeah, she'll be stuck w/ potions. I had it happen to my fighter once when I
tried to use my special ability on myself. "blah heals blah" "blah: magic
resistance" DOH :)
-sean
Rockz
> Hi all,
>
> I am currently playing an evil party and it kicks butt:
> -- Me (Fighter)
> -- Kagain [must have; regenerating hp is COOL]
> -- Montaron [cool conversation]
> -- Xzar [cool conversation]
> -- Viconia [50% magic resistance; say no more]
Doesn't this backfire when she needs to be cured?
Rockz
ska...@mindspring.com says...
>
> Rockz wrote in message ...
> >It would be real nice if the MR can be temporarily removed during
> >healing.
>
> tried to use my special ability on myself. "blah heals blah" "blah: magic
> resistance" DOH :)
Healing potions are subject to magic resistance too.
My best, or worst run was 4 gulps for nothing and only the 5th one
made it through. DOH :(
Bradd W. Szonye
>Hi all,
>
>I am currently playing an evil party and it kicks butt:
>-- Me (Fighter)
>-- Kagain [must have; regenerating hp is COOL]
>-- Montaron [cool conversation]
>-- Xzar [cool conversation]
>-- Viconia [50% magic resistance; say no more]
>(Yes, I like having many fighters in my party)
I used a similar party for a while, except that my main character is a bard
(all the pick pockets I will ever need), and I eventually dropped Xzar and
Montaron to make room for Edwin and Imoen, then later traded Imoen for
Safana.
>An alternative would be to drop Montaron+Xzar for
>Safana+Edwin. Then you don't need to dual Shar-Teel to
>thief (which is what I have to do).
I had considered the Shar-Teel thief trick, but I didn't feel too
comfortable with it. I've just traded Imoen for Safana, and I very happily
discovered that Safana had points only in the thief skills I wanted her to!
In fact, it looks like all of her points so far had gone into Open Locks.
>A disadvantage is that you lack bow proficiency.
>Shar-Teel only gets 2 slots at lvl 6, Montaron can only
>get 2 as well. I am using my main fighter for melee
>(longsword) and Kagain as well (axe).
I went out of my way to pick up Shar-Teel and Viconia very early. My bard
and Shar-Teel have bow skill, Kagain and Viconia use slings, and Safana uses
darts. Edwin has a sling, but no proficiency with it until next level (5).
>Another disadvantage is that I have to dual Shar-Teel to
>a thief at level 6, since Montaron can only get 2 skills
>to 100% (Stealth+Detect Traps).
I don't remember Montaron's skills exactly, but he should be able to max out
Stealth/Traps/Locks, at least in TOSC. Remember that stealth boots/armor
provide +50% stealth between them, and halflings get the best skill bonuses
in the game. Safana will make 100/100/100/20% at 10th level without even
having to use a Dex tome on her.
Bradd
Maarten de Mol
"Bradd W. Szonye" <bra...@concentric.net> wrote:
> Maarten de Mol wrote in message <9306431...@www.remarq.com>...
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I am currently playing an evil party and it kicks butt:
> >-- Me (Fighter)
> >-- Kagain [must have; regenerating hp is COOL]
> >-- Montaron [cool conversation]
> >-- Xzar [cool conversation]
> >-- Viconia [50% magic resistance; say no more]
> >-- Shar-Teel [cool conversation]
> >(Yes, I like having many fighters in my party)
>
> I used a similar party for a while, except that my main character is a
bard
> (all the pick pockets I will ever need), and I eventually dropped Xzar
and
> Montaron to make room for Edwin and Imoen, then later traded Imoen for
> Safana.
I admit that I could have chosen another profession for my main
character. Almost anything goes with the remaining 5. I like fighters
best so I picked a fighter. But I like a bard here as well: usable for
pickpocket (no need to dual Shar-Teel then), cast spells / wands,
bows and just a allround leader.
I have seen many posts preferring Edwin over Xzar. Personally, I'd go
for Xzar. He's a decent mage (although Edwin gets more spells) and
has cool conversations (that is, he is 100% mad). I considered taking
Edwin in my last game, but I just don't like people who mumble things
like "Yes, they will they do fine...".
>
> >An alternative would be to drop Montaron+Xzar for
> >Safana+Edwin. Then you don't need to dual Shar-Teel to
> >thief (which is what I have to do).
>
> I had considered the Shar-Teel thief trick, but I didn't feel too
> comfortable with it. I've just traded Imoen for Safana, and I very
happily
> discovered that Safana had points only in the thief skills I wanted
her to!
> In fact, it looks like all of her points so far had gone into Open
Locks.
I don't like straight thieves much. I'd rather have two FT/TH characters
with each two 100%s than one thief with four 100%s. Shar-Teel dualed
to a thief will be able to wear full plate and use a composite long
bow; Montaron uses a composite long bow as well and will get Drizzt's
armour. Since I will only use Shar-Teel for open locks / pickpocket
there will always be plenty of time to take out her armour.
>
> >A disadvantage is that you lack bow proficiency.
> >Shar-Teel only gets 2 slots at lvl 6, Montaron can only
> >get 2 as well. I am using my main fighter for melee
> >(longsword) and Kagain as well (axe).
>
> I went out of my way to pick up Shar-Teel and Viconia very early. My
bard
> and Shar-Teel have bow skill, Kagain and Viconia use slings, and
Safana uses
> darts. Edwin has a sling, but no proficiency with it until next level
(5).
I picked up my characters very early as well, in fact, all at level
1 except for Shar-Teel (lvl 2). But in a party of 3 fighters I would
have liked to have one character with 3 or 4 proficiencies in bow.
Since Shar-Teel gets no bow proficiency at the beginning, I can only
get 2 proficiencies (at level 6) or wait with dualing (but then I'd
have to have TOSC and I haven't).
>
> >Another disadvantage is that I have to dual Shar-Teel to
> >a thief at level 6, since Montaron can only get 2 skills
> >to 100% (Stealth+Detect Traps).
>
> I don't remember Montaron's skills exactly, but he should be able to
max out
> Stealth/Traps/Locks, at least in TOSC. Remember that stealth
boots/armor
> provide +50% stealth between them, and halflings get the best skill
bonuses
> in the game. Safana will make 100/100/100/20% at 10th level without
even
> having to use a Dex tome on her.
You might be able to reach 100/100/high with Montaron in TOSC, yes.
In BG you can't even reach 100/100 (natural!) I think. You can only
allocate 7*20=140 extra points. (40 additional in TOSC)
Anyway, I want to have one max in all thief skills, so I definetely
need a thief besides Montaron. I want Montaron to be able to backstab
and detect traps, Shar-Teel to be able to open locks and pickpocket.
Later on I will give Shar-Teel stealth as well.
You simply can't have a party which is excellent in ALL departments.
(That is, if you don't use 6 PCs)
You either loose on healing/defensive magic, offensive magic, bow,
melee, hitpoints, armor-class or thieving. This forces you to make
decisions and affects gameplay a lot. That's what I call roleplaying!
GREAT!
>
> Bradd
>
--- MdM
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Maarten de Mol
"Blank Dave" <blank...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >Since you seem to have the inside track on an evil party, what would
you
Imoen,
> >Montaron, Xzar, Edwin, Viconia. Maybe kill off Xzar once i get to
Beregost
> >and sub in Kagain instead. I want an evil, EVIL party. One that'll
make me
> >worthy of taking Bhaal's place. Of course, subverting Imoen would
only add
> >to the fun, the poor child... :)
>
touching
> me!!" "Montaron....I didn't love you"), but it's a toss up between
him and
> Edwin, sho'd supposed to be good (as a character not a person). I
think
> I'll bump of Khalid for either Kagain or Shar Tel, that way I can keep
> Jaheira for her healing powers (need a healer until after I can go to
> Peldvale) Might replace Imoen with Safara, but not too sure. Same
goes for
> keeping Montaron, with Kagain or Shar Tel. Though so far, I've
noticed
> there's fewer evil characters with teh bow skill, I hope there's bolts
of
> detonation too.
>
>
If you want to play a really evil party (killing innocents,
etc.), you can't keep either Jaheira or Khalid. They will
leave you automatically once you commit a crime. (Khalid
& Jaheira left me while I was "cleaning" the upper floors
of the Friendly Arms Inn).
IMO you can't keep a good-aligned character if you want
to play an evil party. BG also doesn't allow you to use
neutral characters (Garrick&Jaheira left me automatically)
either. I am not sure about Imoen though. Anyway, her
alignment doesn't fit an evil party.
And yes, it is hard to get these evil hitters proficient
with the bow. Too bad Shar-Teel is proficient in missile
weapons instead of bow.
IFM
of spells on him.
--
Ian the mac
Rockz <ro...@spam.no> wrote in message
news:MPG.11e4502f8...@news3.ibm.net...
: In article <7lc47t$bc8$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>,
:
Colin E
to heal team members with cloaks of good magi or Balduran.
But hasn't this been modified in ToSC or am I just being incredibly
lucky - I can't remember a single wasted potion in several full games
and it's not because my memory is any better.
Colin E.
Rockz <ro...@spam.no> wrote in message
news:MPG.11e4502f8...@news3.ibm.net...
> In article <7lc47t$bc8$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>,
> ska...@mindspring.com says...
>
David Paoletti
[snipped a lot]
: This way you can reasonably play an evil party.
Not going to happen in any officially licensed AD&D products.
They specifically told BioWare that they had to have built-in
punishments for people being evil. They're deathly afraid that
Moral Majority, or MOOG (Mothers Opposed to Occult Gaming) or
somesuch tripe, giving them bad publicity, will cut down on
their sales. They've forgotten the golden rule of advertising:
ANY advertising is good advertising!
David Paoletti
Sean Kasun
David Paoletti wrote in message <7liv6c$cst$1...@msunews.cl.msu.edu>...
>Moral Majority, or MOOG (Mothers Opposed to Occult Gaming) or
How do I join OGOM? (Occult Gamers Opposed to Mothers)
-sean
Johnny P Smith
>>Doesn't this backfire when she needs to be cured?
>>It would be real nice if the MR can be temporarily removed during
>>healing.
>
>Yeah, she'll be stuck w/ potions. I had it happen to my fighter once when I
>tried to use my special ability on myself. "blah heals blah" "blah: magic
>resistance" DOH :)
>
magic resistance seems to apply to potions as well...in my experience.
-johnny