More Masonic disinformation on African Americans
P.J.
Kansan1225 wrote:
>
> Eugene Goldman wrote:
>
> >Your judgements notwithstanding, if one examines the *facts*, one will
> >find that where such bigotry does exist, it is not confined to
> >Masonry, or fraternities in general.
>
> I agree with that. What I disagree with is your persistent attempt to
> misrepresent Masonic practices as being better than they really are. In many
> places like Oklahoma the color barrier has fallen away in public decades ago,
> but it still exists in the confines of Masonic Lodges, groups supposedly in the
> forefront of the struggle for "equality".
Pardon my jumping in here, but, quite frankly, all over the USA it's
been said that Sundays are the most segregated days of the week. Is
this an indictment of Christianity?
You, Nick, or whomever you are, point this same finger at Masonry as if
it is an indictment of the institution --- instead of what it is... an
organization of good men striving to become better and subdue their
passions.
If bigotry happens to be one of those passions, then it truly is
incumbent upon us as Masons to help eradicate it, but in the spirit of
brotherly love, not paranoid ramblings and numerology.
Your humour, if such it is, wears exceedingly thin, since you have shown
your own true "colours" as a bigot.
Good day, sir.
Paul Julian Gould EA
Home Lodge #721 F&AM
Van Nuys, California, USA
www.calodges.org/no721
--
=============================
Per Fimos Tauroram Ad Gloriam
=============================
Kansan1225
>For the most part,
>however, the demographics of Masonry strongly resemble those of
>Churches, Scout Troops and PTAs. In most predominantly Black
>neighborhoods, you will find very few PTA members or Scouts who are
>not Black. In most predominantly White neighborhoods, the same is
>true for Whites. In most predominantly Asian neighborhoods... And so
>on. The racial make up of Masonic Lodges is governed by the same
>rules which govern that of Scouting or PTA.
This answer is typical Masonic disinformation. In many areas of the U.S.
"white" Lodges blackball African Americans on a routine basis. It only takes
one or just a few racist Masons to exclude any black applicant.
The Mason Chuck Easttom of Oklahoma confirmed this practice in his state
a few months ago on this NG. He wrote that no African Americans had been
allowed to join Oklahoma "white" Lodges as far as he knew.
Eugene Goldman.·.
* Eugene Goldman wrote:
*
*>For the most part,
*>however, the demographics of Masonry strongly resemble those of
*>Churches, Scout Troops and PTAs. In most predominantly Black
*>neighborhoods, you will find very few PTA members or Scouts who are
*>not Black. In most predominantly White neighborhoods, the same is
*>true for Whites. In most predominantly Asian neighborhoods... And so
*>on. The racial make up of Masonic Lodges is governed by the same
*>rules which govern that of Scouting or PTA.
*
* This answer is typical Masonic disinformation. In many areas of the U.S.
*"white" Lodges blackball African Americans on a routine basis. It only takes
*one or just a few racist Masons to exclude any black applicant.
Nick,
Your judgements notwithstanding, if one examines the *facts*, one will
find that where such bigotry does exist, it is not confined to
Masonry, or fraternities in general. Those same areas exclude people
of color from purchasing goods and services, joining congregations (I
recall some Christian polotician commenting on "Black Churches" he
remembers burning in his youth, presupposing there were also "White
Churches" - why won't they let Blacks join "White Churches", anyway?),
or even passing through town. Bigotry is not a function of
fraternities, nor of religion, nor of commerce. It is a function of
stupidity.
The Black Masons I am priveledged to know, in my Lodge and elsewhere,
are among the finest men I know, and they all acknowledge that the
bigotry that exists in the world exists *despite* the best efforts of
fraternities like Masonry, Scouting and others, and not because of
them.
* The Mason Chuck Easttom of Oklahoma confirmed this practice in his state
*a few months ago on this NG. He wrote that no African Americans had been
*allowed to join Oklahoma "white" Lodges as far as he knew.
And I have written, also here, that I know - personally - hundreds.
In mainstream Lodges and PH Lodges, despite the best efforts of bigots
to cause, and represent, differently.
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Who said that?
Brother Gene .*.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission may be granted to others upon request.
Kansan1225
>Your judgements notwithstanding, if one examines the *facts*, one will
>find that where such bigotry does exist, it is not confined to
>Masonry, or fraternities in general.
I agree with that. What I disagree with is your persistent attempt to
Ted Berry
The USA still struggles with race relations. That is no secret to
anyone.
One of the most important trends within Freemasonry that has been going
on for years and is continuing at a steady pace, is the cross
recognition of the various Grand Lodges and the Most Worshipful Prince
Hall Grand Lodges. You can check out Paul Bessel's web page to see the
current status of this trend. (I think there is a link from
www.freemasonry.org)
For the record, the master of my current lodge is a black man as well
as is another officer of my lodge. We raised a candidate in June who
is also black.
--
Ted Berry 32' PSD
Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Mark Jacobs
Kansan1225 <kansa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990825215430...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
> Eugene Goldman wrote:
>
> >For the most part,
>
U.S.
takes
>
state
Interesting that the author appears to be taking a stand against racism
today, or are we Red Sea Pedestrians still given his/her special attention?
>
Kansan1225
I write from a Christian perspective. Christianity is against racism, as
can be seen in the Letters of St. Paul. There are Christians of all races.
The so-called "Christian Identity" movement is a racist provocation owned
and operated by the ADL and their running dogs, the CLuM FBI.
Ted Berry
kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
> The so-called "Christian Identity" movement is a racist
provocation owned
> and operated by the ADL and their running dogs, the CLuM FBI.
>
But they call themselves Christians. Are you posting on appripriate
news groups to call attention to their practices and policies?
I doubt it. So either you don't care that Chrisitans spread the word
of hate or you agree with them.
Kansan1225
>--
>Ted Berry 32' PSD
>Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
>Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
>Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
>
We are in agreement, Ted. It is just that I dislike attempts to hide the
existing discrimination under the rug.
j Dolan
>
> We are in agreement, Ted. It is just that I dislike attempts to hide the
> existing discrimination under the rug.
We noticed you removed your toupe recently.
jim MM
White River #90
Bethel, Vt.
Kansan1225
>Kansan1225) wrote:
>
>> The so-called "Christian Identity" movement is a racist
>provocation owned
>> and operated by the ADL and their running dogs, the CLuM FBI.
>>
>
>But they call themselves Christians. Are you posting on appripriate
>news groups to call attention to their practices and policies?
>
>I doubt it. So either you don't care that Chrisitans spread the word
>of hate or you agree with them.
>
>--
>Ted Berry 32' PSD
>Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
>Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
>Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
>
I post on alt.conspiracy and misc.activism.militia just for these
reasons, to make some of the racists see through their mistakes. I can not
post to every single interested NG; one can do only so much. As more articles
are gathered on the Dark Millennium web site, it will be easier to spread the
word.
As you probably know, the "Christian Identity" movement is small in
numbers and probably half its "leaders" are informants and plants for the ADL
and the FBI. Any "genuine", "spontaneous" "activists" are under constant
surveillance by the ADL and the FBI, a fact that should have given ample
warning about the designs of people like Buford Furrow.
Eugene Goldman.·.
* Eugene Goldman wrote:
*
*>Your judgements notwithstanding, if one examines the *facts*, one will
*>find that where such bigotry does exist, it is not confined to
*>Masonry, or fraternities in general.
*
* I agree with that. What I disagree with is your persistent attempt to
*misrepresent Masonic practices as being better than they really are.
I am not "misrepresenting" anything. I am providing actual fact, from
personal experience. Not opinion, not conjecture, and not the wild
imaginings of a troubled mind. Fact. I *personally* know hundreds of
Black Masons. If your claims were anywhere near true, these men could
never be Masons, yet they are.
*In many
*places like Oklahoma the color barrier has fallen away in public decades ago,
*but it still exists in the confines of Masonic Lodges, groups supposedly in the
*forefront of the struggle for "equality".
In those areas, you will find that it exists also "in the confines of"
Scouting, Campfire and all other fraternal organizations. It exists
"in the confines of" Churches, PTA's, Medical practices, employers,
and neighborhoods.
It exists where it does, but where it does exist it exists "in the
confines" of bigoted minds, who have not learned the lessons Masonry,
Scouting, Campfire and other fraternal organizations teach. Have
fraternities failed in their attempts to bring these idiots into the
20th century? If that was a goal, probably. The best attempts of
literally every organization that fights bigotry does not change some
minds. Sadly, some few individual bigots do slip through the cracks,
despite the best attempts of the fraternal organizations to keep them
out. If this is a failing of fraternities, then it is equally a
failing of Christianity, with their "White Churches" and "Black
Churches" that have been so much in the news. Christianity
(supposedly in the forefront of the struggle for "equality") has,
condones and supports bigots and bigotry, in equal measure to
Scouting, Campfire, Masonry and the other fraternities.
In short, the fact that there are still bigots in the world is not the
fault of any organization, particularly not those who have never had
any institutional bigotry, and have, in fact, opposed it with word and
deed.
Like Masonry, Scouting and Campfire.
Jack Wise
>
>
S N I P P E D
> This answer is typical Masonic disinformation. In many areas of the U.S.
> "white" Lodges blackball African Americans on a routine basis. It only takes
> one or just a few racist Masons to exclude any black applicant.
>
> The Mason Chuck Easttom of Oklahoma confirmed this practice in his state
> a few months ago on this NG. He wrote that no African Americans had been
> allowed to join Oklahoma "white" Lodges as far as he knew.
What Kansas1225 does not recognize is difference between the
practice/beliefs/ethics of individual members as opposed to the actual
tenets of the Fraternity.
These actions (rejecting applicants because of race or other
non-relevant issues) are the acts of individuals - not the fraternity.
The rules for gaining membership to the fraternity were designed to keep
individuals of disreputable character out of the lodge and to prevent
the introduction of disharmony into the lodge. Determined men can find
a way to misuse any set of procedures.
Since one of the goals of the Fraternity is to help men improve
themselves, hopefully those that are bigots will someday see the light.
Jack Wise
PM, Jacques DeMolay Lodge No. 1390, AF & AM
Houston, TX
Mav
> Eugene Goldman wrote:
>
>>For the most part,
>>however, the demographics of Masonry strongly resemble those of
>>Churches, Scout Troops and PTAs. In most predominantly Black
>>neighborhoods, you will find very few PTA members or Scouts who are
>>not Black. In most predominantly White neighborhoods, the same is
>>true for Whites. In most predominantly Asian neighborhoods... And so
>>on. The racial make up of Masonic Lodges is governed by the same
>>rules which govern that of Scouting or PTA.
>
> This answer is typical Masonic disinformation. In many areas of the U.S.
>"white" Lodges blackball African Americans on a routine basis. It only takes
>one or just a few racist Masons to exclude any black applicant.
Really? "Many areas?" Which ones, pray tell? Apparently not my area;
I'm always quite happy to see that, when doing the "honk and wave"
when seeing the S&C on the back of a car, a very large amount of those
Brothers are African-American. Also, my local Lodge is predominantly
Filipino- American(about 80%).
And, apparently not the states I cover in my sales territory- Lodges
I've visited have a very healthy mix of ethnic heritage.
Is my area somehow special, kansan, or are you completely full of
crap?
I suspect the latter.
Dave Mavity MM
Sam
White Lodge members call "The Talented Tenth". These same "Blacks" are
referred to by other Blacks as "Uncle Toms".
Ted Berry wrote in message <7q3bad$jgf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <19990825222329...@ng-fm1.aol.com>,
> kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
>> Eugene Goldman wrote:
>>
>> >Your judgements notwithstanding, if one examines the *facts*, one
>will
>> >find that where such bigotry does exist, it is not confined to
>> >Masonry, or fraternities in general.
>>
>> I agree with that. What I disagree with is your persistent
>attempt to
>> misrepresent Masonic practices as being better than they really are.
>In many
>> places like Oklahoma the color barrier has fallen away in public
>decades ago,
>> but it still exists in the confines of Masonic Lodges, groups
>supposedly in the
>> forefront of the struggle for "equality".
>>
>
>The USA still struggles with race relations. That is no secret to
>anyone.
>
>One of the most important trends within Freemasonry that has been going
>on for years and is continuing at a steady pace, is the cross
>recognition of the various Grand Lodges and the Most Worshipful Prince
>Hall Grand Lodges. You can check out Paul Bessel's web page to see the
>current status of this trend. (I think there is a link from
>www.freemasonry.org)
>
>For the record, the master of my current lodge is a black man as well
>as is another officer of my lodge. We raised a candidate in June who
>is also black.
>
>--
>Ted Berry 32' PSD
>Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
>Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
>Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
>
>
Sam
P.J. wrote in message <37C4A813...@yahoo.com>...
<snip>
>Pardon my jumping in here, but, quite frankly, all over the USA it's
>been said that Sundays are the most segregated days of the week. Is
>this an indictment of Christianity?
Not true Christianity. Not only will you find a mix of all races among
Jehovah's Witnesses you will also find far more mixed marriages then the
General population. See http://www.watchtower.org where you can find true
Christianity.
MasonTruth
>From: kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225)
>Date: Wed, 25 August 1999 09:54 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19990825215430...@ng-cb1.aol.com>
>
> This answer is typical Masonic disinformation. In many areas of the
>U.S.
>"white" Lodges blackball African Americans on a routine basis. It only takes
>one or just a few racist Masons to exclude any black applicant.
>
Dear Sir,
To deny Prejudice in this woprld would be foolish as it exists everywhere..I
speak about California Grand Lodge when I am posting here since I am a member.
I am sure that there are those that would do what you have posted and it has
happened I am sure. The difference is that I have seen Masonry touch the hearts
of men that I think originally thought like this. A Man joins Masonry because
he indeed does have a good heart. For many years there was a seperation in that
Afro Americans joined P.H. Lodges and everyone else joined Grand Lodge of
whichever State that they lived in. I have seen men of both Grnad Lodges soften
their hearts and sit in Lodge and become one, all Masons sharing Masonic
Fellowship. Many times in life we get used to something being one way and we do
not
want to change. In California Lodges I have seen men from all walks of life and
every Religion, shape and Color..It is not so much a Racial issue as I think
people were used to one way of doing things. Our Grand Lodge and the P.H. Grand
Lodge of California and Hawaii helped break down those foolish barriers. THe
Color of a man's skin does not determine if he is a Mason , it is his heart
condition, how he fells toward others..Masonry is not perfect Nick but the
differene is that we are trying to be better people. Can you say the same?
MasonTruth
Bro. Manny Blanco (Junior Warden)
Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
MasonTruth
>From: br_...@pacbell.net (Eugene Goldman.·.)
>Date: Wed, 25 August 1999 10:08 PM EDT
>Message-id: <37c49e07...@news.swbell.net>
Dear Bro. Gene,
Very nice and truthful post.. Thanks...
Sincerely & Fraternally
Sam
that I was harassed nightly by military planes. Targeted with brain
disorienting mind control weapons in an attempt to make me befuddled,
disoriented and disjointed so I could get put away. I was even visited by a
"Top Secret" aircraft that hovered over me and made a second pass and third
pass to do the same in an attempt to make me believe in the Pentagon created
delusion of "space aliens". I witnessed a black helicopter pop up from
behind my parents house and take off like a "bat out of hell" in broad
daylight even though the area was platted. And if you watched the movie
"Conspiracy Theory" it is true that they have helicopters that make no sound
nearly what Jerry Fletcher in the movie called "Whisper Mode". Very
convenient for sneaking up on people and low altitude activities during the
day in platted residential areas. I met a man in town who witnessed black
helicopters hanging out in the farmers fields just on the edge of town. I
missed that one. I told him why. I even witnessed a CIA man driving a black
suburban at about the same time. He had a beard and he looked typical of a
"New Ager", Luciferian, Sigmond Froyd (sic?) type. I was less the ten feet
from him as I starred him down as he waited at the stop sign. It was obvious
that he was making a deliberate attempt to avoided direct eye contact with
me. As he drove off I tried to get the license number and see the plate but
it had dark black tinted plastic over it which is illegal to have now. Not
like the movie conspiracy theory where you could easily see their plate. I
was even visited by a special psychiatrist who came out from Wright
Patterson Airforce Base specifically to see me while I was being held in an
institution shortly after there was a governmental attempt to silence me. Oh
I know I have been watched and probably still am being watched. Sometimes I
wonder if all the military planes helicopters etc. were meant to provoke me
into an act of violence. Maybe that is why the psychiatrist from Wright
Patterson Airforce Base gasped when I told him I was a Jehovah's Witness
because there was no way that I could be provoked in such a way. I don't
even believe in owning a gun by my religious believes as a true Christian
pacifist. I believe you are right about the "Christian Identity" group be a
provocateur organization for the ADL and FBI etc. They give the real militia
who are not racist a bad name. I have met many people through the internet
who claim to be militia and they are not racist. They tell them "Christian
Identity" people that they do not want any of their kind. I had been trying
to also convince the real militia people that taking up arms in not the way
to go but putting their trust in Jehovah God to do the protecting. True
Christians are pacifist. I see the coming attempt for a New World Order
(Globalism) to be in line with Bible prophesy and that when these same
people come after Jehovah's true Christian followers of Jesus Christ then
Armageddon will break out and Jehovah will protect us as he destroys these
same people. http://www.watchtower.org . I had also tried to convince one
"Christian Identity" person that Jesus was a Jew and anybody could be
Christian no matter what their race to no avail.
http://www.parascope.com/cgi-bin/psforum.pl/topic=matrix&disc=417&mmark=all
http://www.parascope.com/cgi-bin/psforum.pl/topic=matrix&disc=527&mmark=all
http://www.parascope.com/cgi-bin/psforum.pl/topic=matrix&disc=444&mmark=all
http://www.parascope.com/cgi-bin/psforum.pl/topic=matrix&disc=689&mmark=all
Sam
Kansan1225 wrote in message
<19990826095301...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...
> Ted Berry wrote:
>
>>Kansan1225) wrote:
>>
>>> The so-called "Christian Identity" movement is a racist
>>provocation owned
>>> and operated by the ADL and their running dogs, the CLuM FBI.
>>>
>>
>>But they call themselves Christians. Are you posting on appripriate
>>news groups to call attention to their practices and policies?
>>
>>I doubt it. So either you don't care that Chrisitans spread the word
>>of hate or you agree with them.
>>
>>--
>>Ted Berry 32' PSD
>>Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
>>Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
>>Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
>>
>
MasonTruth
>From: "Sam" taDELETE...@donet.com
>Date: Fri, 27 August 1999 11:51 PM EDT
>Message-id: <BhJx3.779$586....@newsfeed.slurp.net>
>
>Actually the "Blacks" that are admitted into the Lodge now are what the
>White Lodge members call "The Talented Tenth". These same "Blacks" are
>referred to by other Blacks as "Uncle Toms".
>
Why you little vermin, you have some nerve to even post such a trashy post. It
is people like you that create Prejudice and Bigotry.. You are a back pocket or
closet Bigot Sam. I can say that when I sit in Lodge I am sitting among the
Brethren and they are all Masons. No one cars what color their sin is and what
their background is. You are a disgrace to J.W's and to mankind in general.
The true you comes out in your posts.. Do you think J.W's have cornered the
market on Religious Correctness?
Sam
is a mixture of original Negroid, Southern Chinese that where forced out by
the northern Chinese millennia ago which now make up the Indonesians and
Polynesians. Later the Northern Chinese who previously forced out the
Southern Chinese started doing trade in the Philippines and thus mixed with
the people there. Later the Muslims who had previously settled and converted
the Indonesian peoples to Islam began invading the Southern area of the
Island of Mindanao and mixed with the people there. Before the entire
Philippines could be assimilated by Islamic fundamentalism the Spanish
conquered the Philippines and mixed with the people aggressively. It is
confirmed that my spouse has everyone of these diverse races in her blood
line. I am no racist. In the USA she can pass for an African American. What
I know about "The Talented Tenth" I learned from Black friends. So don't
call me a bigot. I am just passing on the intelligence of the Black
community. What the Black community have known for years that you my friend
are so out of touch with because you don't know any real Black people.
Sam Moser
MasonTruth wrote in message
<19990828121904...@ng-fy1.aol.com>...
Sam
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&kl=XX&stype=stext&q=%2B%22The+Ta
lented+Tenth%22+%2BBlack
Here you might find some info on this phrase. I didn't invent the phrase it
was created by your people. I learned about it from real down to Earth Black
people in the know.
Sam
Sam wrote in message ...
Eugene Goldman.·.
wrote:
*Actually the "Blacks" that are admitted into the Lodge now are what the
*White Lodge members call "The Talented Tenth".
Perhaps in your aledged mind, but this is the first time I have ever
heard such nonsense.
*These same "Blacks" are
*referred to by other Blacks as "Uncle Toms".
You call Jesse Jackson, Thurgood Marshall and Rev. Martin King "Uncle
Toms"????
<ROFL>
You are quite amusing, you know that?
MasonTruth
>Date: Sun, 29 August 1999 06:47 AM EDT
>Message-id: <vj8y3.1915$586....@newsfeed.slurp.net>
>
>
>Where do you get off calling me a bigot? I married an Philippino
First I call the shots as I see them. Being married to a minority doesn't mean
that you are not a Bigot. In fact in your case it could even mean quite the
opposite but I won't get into that at this time.. Secondly this is a Masonic
Board and although the History of the Phillipines is interesting this is not
the place for it..
> I am no racist. In the USA she can pass for an African American. What
>I know about "The Talented Tenth" I learned from Black friends.
I have never heard of such a thing. You are clearly misinformed.
So don't
>call me a bigot. I am just passing on the intelligence of the Black
>community.
Dear Sam, I call you a Bigot because your posts point to it in my eyes. Were
you elected by the Black Community to speak for them or is this a self
appointed position.?
What the Black community have known for years that you my friend
>are so out of touch with because you don't know any real Black people.
>
How foolish a statement and one I will not justify with an answer. People are
people and aain you show that you are a Bigot.. I have met many people who say
"My best friend is a" and inside they are as eveil as they come. Talk is cheap
partner and while you are spouting of how wonderful you are (an opinion shared
by you only) Masonry
is helping people all around the Globe..Let's go abit further here if I may. I
know the Witnesses have a network that helps thos in need in crisis but it is
limited to Witnesses only plain & simple. Please go to a Masonic Childrens Home
or a Shriner Hospital or Clinis and ask how many of the people getting help are
Masonically Affiliated? The answer will be
almost none jhave a Masonic connection but are being helped because this is
whjat we do.. Learn before you speak Sam.. You
talk much trash and are trying to show you are educated on the subject but it
isn't coming through as such...
Sincerely
>Sam Moser
Sam
effort of providing Bible based education with the truth of God's word that
will lead to salvation. The Catholic Church builds hospitals too so what?
Masonry and Catholicism have been at each others throats for a long time.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not make rice Christians. Christians who serve
Jehovah only for the material gain it will bring them. Unlike Masonry
Jehovah's Witnesses are not an upper middle class to rich man's club. Most
Jehovah's Witnesses have very little in the way financially but we are
generous in our support of furthering the teaching of people in the truth of
God's Word not only in a financial way but most importantly with our time.
Building hospitals will not help people to recieve salvation. You totally
miss the boat as to what God's Word the Bible requires of us. Make diciples
baptising them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit
teaching them the truth of God's Word the Bible. Masonry teaches theosophy
the idea behind the New Age movement and Benjamin Creme's "Maitreya" and
Share International. Religious Unification is a contrandication of God's
written Word the Bible. Constantine tried it and what did it bring? The
corruption and apostification of the Christian faith most notably the Roman
Catholic Church. These apostate "Christian" religions are a disgusting thing
in God's eyes. If declaring this to be so makes me a bigot in your eyes then
so be it. But I am in no way shape or form a racist. I love all races of
people and the diversity of Jehovah's creative expression. On the other hand
I only love one religion and that is the pure unadulterated truth of God's
written Word in the Hebrew and Greek Christian scriptures. All other
religious expression is an abomination to the Creator Jehovah God because it
is not worshiping Him in Spirit and Truth which is what He requires for
Salvation and this includes accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
A link:
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&kl=XX&stype=stext&q=%2B%22The+Ta
lented+Tenth%22+%2BBlack
You shouldn't speak before you know the facts. Here you might find some info
on this phrase. I didn't invent the phrase it
was created by your people. I learned about it from real down to Earth Black
people in the know. And yes people are people no matter what their race;
that much I agree on. It is just that this entire thread started out as a
race issue and I did not originate this thread as a race issue.
Sam Moser
Sam
"The Talented Tenth" on the web. Back in 1997 when I first did a search on
the internet with this phrase it only turned up a couple of sites. One site
declared that "The Talented Tenth" consisted of upper middle class blacks
with a large percentage of white blood. I am not joking that is exactly what
the site said. In other words the site implied that for a black to be
talented they needed white blood in their veins. I found that site rather
offensive. I guess the original source of the phrase came from a book
called, "The Negro Problem". That title in itself is offensive to any black
person. I stick by what I said about Freemasonry. The Lodges that admit
blacks at all which are very few only admit those considered to be among
"The Talented Tenth" an offensive term invented by racist Caucasian people
who believe in "survival of the fittest" a eugenics concept. This is the big
reason African Americans are more likely to be kept in prison and for a
longer period then the Caucasian man for the same crime because it deprives
the person from procreating. The prison system is a eugenics institution
created by racist Freemasons who run the government.
Sam Moser
Ted Berry
"Sam" <ta...@donREMOVEet.com> wrote:
I sat in a Masonic Lodge Saturday night with over 30 black men who were
mostly born in Africa. Their parents were born in Africa and their
parents were born in Africa. I would highly doubt there was any "White
blood" in their bodies.
Your comments are completely without basis. THe current master of my
Lodge is from Africa. One of the other officers is as well.
Your lack of respect for anyone who doesn;t believe exactly what you
believe is a pride which doesn't suit the message you are trying to
convey.
--
Ted Berry 32' PSD
Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
MasonTruth
>From: "Sam" ta...@donREMOVEet.com
>Message-id: <eVNy3.485$Q%6.5...@newsfeed.slurp.net
>Jehovah's Witnesses do not make rice Christians. Christians who serve
>Jehovah only for the material gain it will bring them. Unlike Masonry
>Jehovah's Witnesses are not an upper middle class to rich man's club. Most
>Jehovah's Witnesses have very little in the way financially but we are
>generous in our support of furthering the teaching of people in the truth of
>God's Word not only in a financial way but most importantly with our time.
Dear Sir,
You are not being very honest here at all. The Society's holdings here and
abroad are
quite enormous. I also know many wealthy Witnesse. Builders, Communications
etc, etc.. I know too much about The Society to be told this one.. Please use
your tomfoolery on someone else.. It doesn't fly here..
Sincerely
Sam
not believe in interracial marriage. A Mason would never have a mixed person
in their Lodge because they condemn interracial marriage. It was Masons who
fathered the early laws in the USA which forbade a white from marrying or
even having sex with someone who wasn't white. In my post I did not say that
was the case and only said what I read on a certain web-site. You have
revealed much information and exposed the racism in Masonry Ted Berry
because Masons do not believe in interracial marriage just as William Cooper
has been trying to express for quite some time. In fact I have met both
Black and White sheriff deputies who claimed that mixing the races causes
children to be insane. The one Black officer bragged about how he was a PURE
black man. Actually quite the opposite is true. The PURE races are all a
bunch of stupid imbeds that can't handle the intelligence of the mixed
people who can see right into the character of people by reading their body
language, facial expressions and other visual cues as well as sodalities in
voice inflection etc. In other words the mixed people have such heightened
awareness, keen sense and intelligence that the pure blood people who have
maintained control see them as a threat because they make them feel
uncomfortable because they can see right through them. In fact I support
interracial marriage because it strengthens the gene pool and creates
intelligence. That is why I deliberately married outside my race and
encourage others to do so also. The PURE races are a product of inbreeding
and we know what inbreeding does to people don't we? It makes people stupid
that is what. Thanks Ted for taking the bait and confirming my worst fears
and what William Cooper has been trying to tell people for quite some time.
Freemasons and the Illuminati are a bunch of racist who do not believe in
interracial marriage. In fact William Cooper fears if the Freemason's child
the United Nations takes power of the world there will be a holocaust as
people who are the products of interracial unions are slaughtered. Ted you
need to join the "Christian Identity" man on alt.conspiracy who called Black
people the White man's brother. "Brothers" as long as there is no
interracial unions among them because these same "Christian Identity" people
preach a "gospel" of hate and tell people that the white people are
committing racial genocide by mixing with other races. I don't see it as
racial genocide. I see it for what it is which is strengthening the gene
pool. Freemasons and "Christian Identity" as well as Nazis have much in
common. In fact I wouldn't doubt that most "Christian Identity" followers
are a bunch of Freemasons. One Christian Identity follower got upset with me
when I told him it was a Freemason conspiracy not a Jew conspiracy and he
tried to obfuscate the issues. Most Jewish people are unaware of the
conspiracy and those who are are frightened. I am in contact by E-mail with
a young Jewish man who is just as upset about the conspiracy as William
Cooper is as well as others on the web. In fact I even met one militia man
who was Jewish. The real militia could care less about interracial marriage
and see it as a person's right to marry whom ever they want regardless of
race that is why the real militia tell these "Christian Identity" people
where to go and they don't want any part of their kind. I believe it is true
that the "Christian Identity" followers are an operation of the ADL and the
FBI. It would not surprise me in the least if they were. The FBI was started
by a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason president and the person he put in
charge of the FBI was a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason. The whole FBI
as well as the CIA are clandestine operations with a secret agenda
independent of the people of the USA. They are a pack of racist Freemasons
who don't believe in interracial marriage. Interracial marriage strengthens
the gene pool.
Sam Moser
Ted Berry <tedbe...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7qgmnm$kbo$1@nnrp1
.deja.com...
Sam
among Jehovah's Witnesses the vast majority have very little in the way of
financial resources. The Watchtower facilities World Wide are simply for the
purpose of publishing Bible Based literature to aid in understanding the
truth of Jehovah God's word. These facilities are built and maintained by
voluntary donations. In some lands a donation is required to receive the
literature. These funds are just enough to cover the expenses of publishing
the literature and maintaining the facilities all of which are supported by
voluntary workers who receive a small allowance each month in addition to
being housed and fed. Even the governing body those taking the spiritual
lead among Jehovah's Witnesses receive the same small allowance each month
and their sleeping quarters aren't any better then the rest of those at
Bethel. I stated in my post that Jehovah's Witnesses use their financial
resources to further the effort of educating people about the truth of
Jehovah God's word the Bible and this could not be accomplished without the
printing facilities World Wide which print Bible based literature and Bibles
in many languages. That is exactly what I meant about using their financial
resources to teach people the truth of Jehovah God's word the Bible which
leads to salvation. Masons miss the boat as what God requires of us.
Sam Moser
MasonTruth <mason...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990831154730...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
Ted Berry
Eugene Goldman.·.
wrote:
*It would seem that there are now a lot of web-sites that contain the phrase
*"The Talented Tenth" on the web.
There are also a lot of web sites that have sightings of Elvis. Your
point was?
Randal Martin
>The PURE races are all a bunch of stupid imbeds that can't handle the
intelligence >of the mixed people who can see right into the character of
people by reading their >body language, facial expressions and other visual
cues as well as sodalities in
>voice inflection etc.
I understand prejudice and racism to mean prejudging someone based solely on
their race, right?? So by saying that a person is a <<stupid imbed>> simply
because of his race, that would make you a racist, right?? Thought so.
>The PURE races are a product of inbreeding
>and we know what inbreeding does to people don't we?
Once again you have shown your ability to judge a person simply based upon his
heritage. It must take a highly enlightened person to completely understand a
person's being simply by looking at their skin color.
Randal Martin
Cassia Lodge #272
Morgantown, KY
Stephen Austin
>That is exactly what I meant about using their financial
>resources to teach people the truth of Jehovah God's word the Bible which
>leads to salvation. Masons miss the boat as what God requires of us.
>
Gee Sam, that's just swell. So why don't you consider your job here done.
You've enlightened us so now it's time to go knock on someone else's door.
Stephen Austin, MM
Charleston Lodge #407
Stephen Austin
> The PURE races are all a
>bunch of stupid imbeds that can't handle the intelligence of the mixed
>people who can see right into the character of people by reading their body
>language, facial expressions and other visual cues as well as sodalities in
>voice inflection etc. In other words the mixed people have such heightened
>awareness, keen sense and intelligence that the pure blood people who have
>maintained control see them as a threat because they make them feel
>uncomfortable because they can see right through them.
Hey Sammy, is this part of the doctrine taught by your church? Or are you a
geneticist with some kind of proof to back up what you post? Personally I
think you are an idiot with a capital I. Whether your small brain comprehends
it or not your statements label you as the same type of person you are trying
to condemn. What you seem to be suggesting is that you are in favor of a
"superrace" with powers above all others. If I remember correctly several
other madmen have tried that same argument in the past with most horrid
results. But you being the small-minded brainwashed idiot that you are I
highly doubt that you recognize the hate in your own posts.
Why don't you just shove along now. With all of the twisted newsgroups on
Usenet I am sure you can find others more in need of your special type of
enlightenment. We, as men who try to recognize our flaws and labor to become
better men in spite of them, do not need your help.
By the way, I always knew there was some reason why I had to shoo your people
away from my door. Thanks for reminding me.
Sam
Sam
Sam
all races and believe in interracial marriage. In an amalgamated society
there will still be variety. In fact there will be more variety then what
currently exists among the human race. Notice I said Human Race as opposed
to White Race Black Race etc. because I believe we all came from Adam and
Eve. You say I am racist because I say all the pure races are a bunch of
"stupid inbreeds"? Not hardly. Just stating fact and I do not leave any race
out including the causation race which are inbred as well. How could I
possibly be racist when I call ALL races inbreeds? I would be racist against
myself wouldn't I? I believe in interracial marriage but Freemasons don't
plain and simple. To say that it is wrong to marry someone of another race
is a racist attitude and is the attitude of Freemasons. Plain and Simple.
And that is wrong VERY WRONG. Freemasons look at the mixed race people with
contempt.
Sam
Randal Martin <rmar...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:19990901100228...@ngol03.aol.com...
> In article <7P7z3.581$%h7....@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Sam" <ta...@donet.com>
> writes:
>
> >The PURE races are all a bunch of stupid imbeds that can't handle the
> intelligence >of the mixed people who can see right into the character of
> people by reading their >body language, facial expressions and other
visual
> cues as well as sodalities in
> >voice inflection etc.
>
j Dolan
> "stupid inbreeds"? Not hardly. Just stating fact and I do not leave any race
> out including the causation race which are inbred as well. How could I
> possibly be racist when I call ALL races inbreeds? I would be racist against
> myself wouldn't I? I believe in interracial marriage but Freemasons don't
> plain and simple. To say that it is wrong to marry someone of another race
> is a racist attitude and is the attitude of Freemasons. Plain and Simple.
> And that is wrong VERY WRONG. Freemasons look at the mixed race people with
> contempt.
Sam, if it's "plain and simple", perhaps you could help me by pointing out
where that is elaborated upon in Masonry? I've never heard of such a thing.
Masonry is founded on the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man.
What you suggest differs more than substantially, could you please be
specific? Such has not been my experience, at all.
jim MM
White River #90
Bethel, Vt.
Eugene Goldman.·.
*You say I am racist because I say all the pure races are a bunch of
*"stupid inbreeds"? Not hardly. Just stating fact and I do not leave any race
*out including the causation race which are inbred as well. How could I
*possibly be racist when I call ALL races inbreeds?
No. You are racist because you see *and judge* people according to
their racial background, by your own words. No matter if your
judgements are favorable or unfavorable, judgements based on race are
- by definition - racist.
*I would be racist against myself wouldn't I?
Or for, but in either case, still racist.
*I believe in interracial marriage
Yet another example...
*but Freemasons don't plain and simple.
Really? <LOL> The many Masons I know who are married to women of
other races belies your insipid claim.
*To say that it is wrong to marry someone of another race
*is a racist attitude and is the attitude of Freemasons.
<ROFL>
Where did you buy this load of manure?
*Plain and Simple.
*And that is wrong VERY WRONG. Freemasons look at the mixed race people with
*contempt.
No, we look at deliberately stupid people with contempt. People who
are not willing to allow reality or facts sway their freverantly-held
beliefs in fanticy. People who catagorise others according to race.
People who turn a discussion on another topic into accusations and
charges. People who purposfully bear false witness against their
neighbor. People who use deception, claiming it to be religion.
Sound like anyone you know?
Sam
I preach a gospel of love among the races not hate. I am NOT in favor of
government mandated genetic programs to create a "super race". I am in favor
of freedom of choice to marry whom ever one chooses to. But interracial
marriage does strengthen the gene pool and should be encouraged NOT
discouraged. I am in favor of love between the races by breaking down the
barriers that prevent interracial marriage. Freemasons promote maintaining
them barriers out of racism. Don't try to compare me to Hitler. Hitler would
have tried to wipe out all people besides the causation race in the end.
Hitler tried to create his "super race" out of the causation race. Hitler
would have me executed for what I am suggesting.
Also the cure for severally mentally retarded people through inbreeding is
not to forbid them to marry but to encourage them to marry someone else who
is mentally retarded through inbreeding that is not related to them in any
way. Two retarded people can produce very intelligent children if they are
not genetically related to each other in anyway. I am speaking of
retardation through inbreeding and not referring to other factors not
genetic in nature such as creationism due to lack of iodine during infancy.
Freemasons do not recognize it as a flaw that they condemn interracial
marriage. You need to be straightened out. I have uncovered the skeletons in
the Masons closets and you don't like it. William Cooper was right about
Masons condemning interracial marriage and I was right to trust my
instincts. When the white Mason looks at the black women and feels the
loathing for her that he would never marry such he is racist. When the
Freemason looks at an interracial couple with contempt and disgust over
their biracial children he is being racist and should feel ashamed for
feeling such a way. Freemasonry is a TRUE racist institution and should be
condemned as such by enlightened individuals.
Sam Moser
Stephen Austin <agca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990901102236...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> Sam Moser posted this poppycock:
>
> > The PURE races are all a
> >bunch of stupid imbeds that can't handle the intelligence of the mixed
> >people who can see right into the character of people by reading their
body
> >language, facial expressions and other visual cues as well as sodalities
in
Sam
Eugene Goldman.·. <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:37cd4e58...@news.swbell.net...
> On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:27:55 -0400, "Sam" <ta...@donet.com> wrote:
>
> *You say I am racist because I say all the pure races are a bunch of
> *"stupid inbreeds"? Not hardly. Just stating fact and I do not leave any
race
> *out including the causation race which are inbred as well. How could I
> *possibly be racist when I call ALL races inbreeds?
>
> No. You are racist because you see *and judge* people according to
> their racial background, by your own words. No matter if your
> judgements are favorable or unfavorable, judgements based on race are
> - by definition - racist.
No I simply state the FACT that ALL races are the product of imbreeding and
imbreeding weekens the gene pool. FACT. The Hotoos (sic) and Tootsies (sic)
in Africa should have loved each other and married each other rather then
kill each other as they did.
In England and Iraland the Irish and the Brits should marry each other and
love each other and there wouldn't be all the conflict that has been there
for so many years.
In Yugoslavia the Serbs and the Kroasians should have embrase each other out
of love and married each other.
In Kentucky USA the Hatfields and the McCoys should have put down their guns
and married each other instead of "keeping it in the family". :-) LOL!!
>
> *I would be racist against myself wouldn't I?
>
> Or for, but in either case, still racist.
No I am caucation and the caucation race is severally imbred as well.
>
> *I believe in interracial marriage
>
> Yet another example...
Believing in interracial marriage is the antithesis of racism. Plain and
simple. So your statement is fallacious.
>
> *but Freemasons don't plain and simple.
>
> Really? <LOL> The many Masons I know who are married to women of
> other races belies your insipid claim.
Oh really now? Can you give us some details? What races are you refering to?
A German married to a Dutch doesn't count. Or a French married to a Brit
doesn't count. You get the picture. I believe your little attempt at decept
isn't working because I am sure you arbitraily count different caucation
nationals as different races when in reality they are closely related.
>
> *To say that it is wrong to marry someone of another race
> *is a racist attitude and is the attitude of Freemasons.
>
> <ROFL>
> Where did you buy this load of manure?
Freemasons practice this with winks and nods not with an official doctrine.
I guess it would be better to say the condeming of whites and blacks
marrying is a Freemasons thing. See Ted Berry's post. It really sums it up.
>
> *Plain and Simple.
> *And that is wrong VERY WRONG. Freemasons look at the mixed
>race people with contempt.
>
<molarky snipped>
>
>
>
> |O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
> Who said that?
<Lodge URL's snipped>
> Brother Gene .*.
> MBBFMN #387
> And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
>
> Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
> Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission
may be granted to others upon request.
Tuff Tiddy I posted your post again anyway. So sue me.
Sam
Sam
is practiced out of winks and nods. There need be no formal conspiracy. It
is the attitude of the Masons. See Ted Berry's reply it sums it up. He
balked at the idea that anyone in his lodge who was black had any white
blood in them and declared them pure blooded. Ted Berry is a Scottish Rite
Mason and they are EXTREMELY racist and condemn interracial marriage
outright. They now let blacks into their lodge but they must be of pure
African decent just as Ted Berry revealed. Must African Americans are mixed
with Caucasians because of the liberties the slave owners had with their
female slaves.
j Dolan <jhd...@sover.net> wrote in message
> Sam wrote:
>
<snipped for band width>
Ted Berry
"Sam" <taDELETE...@donet.com> wrote:
>
> Not true Christianity. Not only will you find a mix of all races among
> Jehovah's Witnesses you will also find far more mixed marriages then
the
> General population. See http://www.watchtower.org where you can find
true
> Christianity.
>
Come visit true Christianity where there is on-line help to negotiate a
reasonable price to purchase women.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1998/9/15/article_01.htm
Eugene Goldman.·.
*Quote me out of context.
No, it's much more fun to do it in context, so everyone can read your
judgements for themselves.
*I preach a gospel of love among the races not hate.
And the fact that you judge people according to race means...
*I am NOT in favor of
*government mandated genetic programs to create a "super race". I am in favor
*of freedom of choice to marry whom ever one chooses to. But interracial
*marriage does strengthen the gene pool and should be encouraged NOT
*discouraged.
So once again, you believe a person's race should be a criteria for
marriage. I see. Go on.
*I am in favor of love between the races by breaking down the
*barriers that prevent interracial marriage. Freemasons promote maintaining
*them barriers out of racism.
Really? Where in Masonry is that addressed? What supposedly factual
source material did you use to come to this judgement?
*Don't try to compare me to Hitler. Hitler would
*have tried to wipe out all people besides the causation race in the end.
And you would wipe out ... whom?
*Freemasons do not recognize it as a flaw that they condemn interracial
*marriage.
<LOL>
What aledgedly factual material did you use to come to this judgement?
*You need to be straightened out. I have uncovered the skeletons in
*the Masons closets and you don't like it. William Cooper was right about
*Masons condemning interracial marriage and I was right to trust my
*instincts.
William Cooper is a fraud, a charlitan and a liar. His claims and
accusations have no basis in fact or reality.
*When the white Mason looks at the black women and feels the
*loathing for her that he would never marry such he is racist.
And what "white Mason" would this supposedly be?
*When the
*Freemason looks at an interracial couple with contempt and disgust over
*their biracial children he is being racist and should feel ashamed for
*feeling such a way. Freemasonry is a TRUE racist institution and should be
*condemned as such by enlightened individuals.
And you have made these judgements of your fellow man based on - what?
Cooper's lies? The Taxil hoax? Garbage you read on some web page,
with Elvis sightings and get-rich-quick schemes? Or did some "Former
High Level Mason" and snake-oil salesman sell you a brochure?
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Who said that?
Brother Gene .*.
Eugene Goldman.·.
*No I simply state the FACT that ALL races are the product of imbreeding and
*imbreeding weekens the gene pool. FACT. The Hotoos (sic) and Tootsies (sic)
*in Africa should have loved each other and married each other rather then
*kill each other as they did.
*In England and Iraland the Irish and the Brits should marry each other and
*love each other and there wouldn't be all the conflict that has been there
*for so many years.
*
*In Yugoslavia the Serbs and the Kroasians should have embrase each other out
*of love and married each other.
*
*In Kentucky USA the Hatfields and the McCoys should have put down their guns
*and married each other instead of "keeping it in the family". :-) LOL!!
Uh huh. Thanks for sharing..
*No I am caucation and the caucation race is severally imbred as well.
I see. Go on.
*Believing in interracial marriage is the antithesis of racism. Plain and
*simple. So your statement is fallacious.
Get a dictionary. You will find that racism is the act of classifying
people according to their race. Your judgement of them may be
favorable or unfavorable, but if you are judging them, or recommending
something to them, because of their race or racial mix, you are
committing a racist act.
Look it up.
The net result of this is this: Classifying marriages as interracial
is racist. For or against, it is racist.
*Oh really now? Can you give us some details? What races are you refering to?
I know both Masons, and their wives, who are Black, Native American,
Indian (from India and thereabouts), Asian, Eskimo and any other
racial description you care to name. We eat together at the pot luck
dinners every Month.
*A German married to a Dutch doesn't count. Or a French married to a Brit
*doesn't count. You get the picture.
Yes, you are confusing Nationality with Race.
*I believe your little attempt at decept
*isn't working because I am sure you arbitraily count different caucation
*nationals as different races when in reality they are closely related.
No, I was counting Caucasian, Asian, Negro, and Indian as races.
*Freemasons practice this with winks and nods not with an official doctrine.
I see. So when one individual winks at another, you claim to know
what it means? <LOL>
Sam, you really are amusing.
*I guess it would be better to say the condeming of whites and blacks
*marrying is a Freemasons thing. See Ted Berry's post. It really sums it up.
I did see it, and I do not understand why you feel it necessary to
bring your racist judgements into the discussion. Thank you for
sharing. I have enjoyed a good laugh.
*Tuff Tiddy I posted your post again anyway. So sue me.
No thanks. You are not worth the phone call I would have to make.
Eugene Goldman.·.
*Must African Americans are mixed
*with Caucasians because of the liberties the slave owners had with their
*female slaves.
Sam,
What is your judgement of intermarriage between humans and whoever
flys those imaginary airplanes that buzz your house?
Stephen Austin
>Quit twisting my words.
They're your words dude. Maybe you should make yourself more clear.
>I preach a gospel of love.
If that were only the case. Actually you're being nothing less than annoying.
Perhaps you should go prey on the weak-minded. You'll find neither sympathy
nor gullibility here.
I must admit though. After reading your post with your poor grammar and shoddy
spelling I am seriously beginning to believe that you are in fact inbred.
Stephen Austin
Austin Ag Aviation
Charleston, Missouri
Stephen Austin
>Quit twisting my words.
They're your words dude. Maybe you should make yourself more clear.
>I preach a gospel of love.
If that were only the case. Actually you're being nothing less than annoying.
Perhaps you should go prey on the weak-minded. You'll find neither sympathy
nor gullibility here.
I must admit though, after reading your post with your poor grammar and shoddy
spelling I am seriously beginning to believe that you are, in fact, inbred.
Stephen Austin
>not to forbid them to marry but to encourage them to marry someone else who
>is mentally retarded through inbreeding that is not related to them in any
>way. Two retarded people can produce very intelligent children if they are
>not genetically related to each other in anyway. I am speaking of
>retardation through inbreeding and not referring to other factors not
>genetic in nature such as creationism due to lack of iodine during infancy.
>
Would you mind enlightening me as to where you received your genetic training?
Would you also please post exactly how many generations removed are necessary
to prevent your form of inbreeding? Personally I don't think you can provide
proof of either because, when you boil it all down, you are an idiot.
Also I must admit that I find it hard to except genetic counseling and advanced
medical information from someone who would let theirs or someone else's child
die rather than allow a simple blood transfusion.
>Freemasons do not recognize it as a flaw that they condemn interracial
>marriage. You need to be straightened out. I have uncovered the skeletons in
>the Masons closets and you don't like it.
You have uncovered nothing. I, on the other hand, have uncovered the fact
that:
1) You are an idiot.
2) You are quite the hypocrite.
3) You post about things which you know nothing about.
4) You are at best a troll and should be treated as such.
5) Refer to Number 1.
CAPT Sel. Glen Cook
>not believe in interracial marriage.
I have no objections to interracial marriage.
Glen Cook
Life Member, NAACP
1996 Chapter Attorney of the Year
Former Board member
AND
Mason
CAPT Sel. Glen Cook
Ed King
> I must admit though, after reading your post with your poor grammar and shoddy
> spelling I am seriously beginning to believe that you are, in fact, inbred.
Brother Stephen,
Our 36 year-old poster here, Sam Moser a/k/a Jerry Newport, has a long history of
mental health problems. I say this not to be insulting to him but rather to alert
you and others to the fact that he may really not be functioning at an adult
level all of the time. He still believes that B-2 Bombers follow him around and
that the X-Files story was written about him.
No, I'm NOT making this all up. You can head to
http://www.masonicinfo.com/newport.htm to read the whole story. There you'll also
find links to many of Sam's postings about his own life (some of which he
specifically asked me to add).
Please try to be gentle with him in light of this information.
Fraternally,
Ed King
http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
Randal Martin
writes:
>It is not written down in Masonry at least not in the Blue Lodge degrees. It
>is practiced out of winks and nods.
The only winks and nods are your nervous twitches.
Douglas Pavey
|> You just confirmed what I had already suspected Ted Berry. I knew Masons did
|> not believe in interracial marriage. A Mason would never have a mixed person
|> in their Lodge because they condemn interracial marriage.
I left Ted's message at the bottom. Sam, you have a real problem with
reading comprehension. Ted did not confirm any such thing. And it is not
true. In my lodge we have many people who are of mixed racial origin. As
are found in my Church and Synagogue. You see, I am a Jewish Christian, who
celebrates both traditions - remember, Jesus was not a Christian, he was a
Jewish Carpenter. Today's Christians are actually following Paul's teachings
and his interpretations of how he thought things should be done. Paul never
actually met Jesus while Jesus lived, nor heard his words. In fact, he
started out persecuting the followers of Jesus - until his conversion.
I wondered off topic.... Masonry does not condemn nor condone any type
of marriage or have any rules about racial separation or anything to do
with racial, political or religious matters - they are left up to the
individual mason as his own conscience dictates.
|> It was Masons who
|> fathered the early laws in the USA which forbade a white from marrying or
|> even having sex with someone who wasn't white.
Actually, the OT of the bible suggests that mixed marriages are not a good
idea - it is mixing cultures that do not understand one another. Men of
Israel were forbiden to marry the Cannanites - because they would poison
the faith of the followers of God. They were idol worshipers and did not
have the same faith. Many religions feel the same way about marrying
outside your faith. This was the founding premis behind racial separation.
It has nothing to do with Freemasonry, but has a lot to do with some of the
basic rules of civilization as laid out in the Bible. Jews and early
Christians followed these rules. I don't know of any laws on the books that
specifically prohibit interracial marriage - unless they go back to slave
ownership and responsibilities of the slave as property of the owner.
Remember, it wasn't very long ago when slavery was an acceptable practice in
the US and over 50 years after the slaves were freed, women received some
recognition - other than chattel - or property of the husband, and they
finally received the right to voice their opinions in public and to vote.
This is way off topic for this NG and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.
|> In my post I did not say that
|> was the case and only said what I read on a certain web-site. You have
|> revealed much information and exposed the racism in Masonry Ted Berry
|> because Masons do not believe in interracial marriage just as William Cooper
|> has been trying to express for quite some time.
You just read into Brother Ted's words what you wanted them to say.
|> Freemasons and "Christian Identity" as well as Nazis have much in
|> common. In fact I wouldn't doubt that most "Christian Identity" followers
|> are a bunch of Freemasons.
I seriously doubt that a freemason would join, but he might - we don't
dictate how a man must act. We do suggest how he ought to live by good
examples and high moral precepts and philosophies. Tolerance of other
mens faiths is heavily stressed. Fundamental religious groups - who feel
their way is the only way to worship does not fit easily into such a mold.
|> One Christian Identity follower got upset with me
|> when I told him it was a Freemason conspiracy not a Jew conspiracy and he
|> tried to obfuscate the issues. Most Jewish people are unaware of the
|> conspiracy and those who are are frightened. I am in contact by E-mail with
|> a young Jewish man who is just as upset about the conspiracy as William
|> Cooper is as well as others on the web.
I would get upset when you spread lies about things that you have no real
concrete first-hand knowledge about. Things such as the Jewish faith and
Freemasonry.
|> Ted Berry <tedbe...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7qgmnm$kbo$1@nnrp1
|> .deja.com...
|> > In article <XHOy3.504$Q%6.6...@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
|> > "Sam" <ta...@donREMOVEet.com> wrote:
|> >
|> > I sat in a Masonic Lodge Saturday night with over 30 black men who were
|> > mostly born in Africa. Their parents were born in Africa and their
|> > parents were born in Africa. I would highly doubt there was any "White
|> > blood" in their bodies.
|> >
|> > Your comments are completely without basis. THe current master of my
|> > Lodge is from Africa. One of the other officers is as well.
|> >
|> > Your lack of respect for anyone who doesn;t believe exactly what you
|> > believe is a pride which doesn't suit the message you are trying to
|> > convey.
|> > --
|> > Ted Berry 32' PSD
============================================================
Douglas Pavey, Consulting Analyst, Software Synergy
http://www.softsynergy.com mailto:dpa...@softsynergy.com
personal: http://www.kudra.com/paveyd
Senior Steward Evanston-Eversull Lodge #695 F&AM
Norwood Chapter #193 RAM, Valley of Cincinnati AASR
Sam
fear that your racist hate will be exposed.
racism (râ´sîz´em) noun
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or
ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
- rac´ist adjective & noun
Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version
licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in
accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
I don't believe anyone race is superior to another but white Freemasons
believe they are superior to blacks. I simply stated the TRUTH that
interracial marriage between a black and a white etc. not only helps the
black race but also the white. People in all races come in all sizes and
abilities and no race is superior to another. In fact the way to better
healthier children is through interracial marriage marrying a genetic line
not related to you. The more diverse the blood line the better.
Eugene Goldman.·. > On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:00:29 -0400, "Sam"
<ta...@donet.com> wrote:
>
> *Quote me out of context.
>
> No, it's much more fun to do it in context, so everyone can read your
> judgements for themselves.
No Eugene Goldman you snipped much of my post so you are intentionally
attempting to deceive as usual.
>
> *I preach a gospel of love among the races not hate.
>
> And the fact that you judge people according to race means...
I don't judge people according to race. All PURE races are equally inbred
and no race is superior to another. Get to the point Eugene, tell the people
here how you feel personally about interracial marriage. How you feel about
a black man marrying a white woman or vice versa and reveal the true racist
nature of most Freemasons. Would you vote to admit a black into your
personal lodge who was married to a white woman Eugene? Answer the question
honestly. Quite speaking like a crooked politician.
>
> *I am NOT in favor of
> *government mandated genetic programs to create a "super race". I am in
favor
> *of freedom of choice to marry whom ever one chooses to. But interracial
> *marriage does strengthen the gene pool and should be encouraged NOT
> *discouraged.
>
> So once again, you believe a person's race should be a criteria for
> marriage. I see. Go on.
No I say that people should be free to marry whom ever they choose. But
interracial marriage should not continue to be condemned in this society
which is being done outright or ignoring the issues.
> *I am in favor of love between the races by breaking down the
> *barriers that prevent interracial marriage. Freemasons promote
maintaining
> *them barriers out of racism.
>
> Really? Where in Masonry is that addressed? What supposedly factual
> source material did you use to come to this judgement?
Why don't you shed some light on this matter for us Eugene. Would allow the
fact that a man was black and married to a white woman or a white man who
was married to a black woman prevent you from voting yes to allow them
entree into your personal lodge? Would you allow the sole fact that a man
was half black and half white who was married to a native American Indian
who was also half Chinese and had children prevent you from voting yes to
enter your lodge? I bet Eugene's lodge is one of those exclusive white only
lodges. But regardless answer the questions above Eugene honestly.
>
> *Don't try to compare me to Hitler. Hitler would
> *have tried to wipe out all people besides the causation race in the end.
>
> And you would wipe out ... whom?
Again speaking like a politician and since you snipped a large amount of my
post dealing with retardation through inbreeding and the humain ethical way
to remedy the situation which would allow the person to still marry and have
children you avoid the question with your pathetic retort. Hitler would have
murdered the retarded. But of cource in the early history of the USA
Freemasons who believe the humanist lie of evolution passed laws that
prevented retarded people to marry.
>
> *Freemasons do not recognize it as a flaw that they condemn interracial
> *marriage.
>
> <LOL>
> What aledgedly factual material did you use to come to this judgement?
Well Eugene do you personally see it as a flaw in yourself that you condemn
interracial marriage between blacks and whites etc.? Do you see it as a flaw
in yourself that you would vote no to admit a black man married to a white
woman or a white man married to a black woman into your lodge?
>
> *You need to be straightened out. I have uncovered the skeletons in
> *the Masons closets and you don't like it. William Cooper was right about
> *Masons condemning interracial marriage and I was right to trust my
> *instincts.
>
> William Cooper is a fraud, a charlitan and a liar. His claims and
> accusations have no basis in fact or reality.
Typical Freemason retort to discredit anyone publishing unfavorable
information on their organization. Totally without merit because you are a
secret society. And since you have sworn to uphold the secrets of the Lodge
you are forced to lie even if you know something to be true that is
published my Anti-Masonry people in order to hide your secrets. Any
reasonable person out there unaffiliated with Masonry can see the conflict
of interest you have of admitting anything someone says about the "lodge" is
true even if it is considering Freemasonry IS a Secret Society bound by
oaths that you must defend and preserve the secrets of Masonry and if you
reveal any of those secrets it is a license for the other lodge members to
cut your throat and disembowel you.
>
> *When the white Mason looks at the black women and feels the
> *loathing for her that he would never marry such he is racist.
>
> And what "white Mason" would this supposedly be?
You among many Eugene Goldman. Address the issue. Would you allow the fact
that an applicant to your own Lodge who was black married to a blond haired
blue eyed white woman influence you to vote no solely on that fact and the
fact that he also has children by her?
>
> *When the
> *Freemason looks at an interracial couple with contempt and disgust over
> *their biracial children he is being racist and should feel ashamed for
> *feeling such a way. Freemasonry is a TRUE racist institution and should
be
> *condemned as such by enlightened individuals.
>
>
> And you have made these judgements of your fellow man based on - what?
> Cooper's lies? The Taxil hoax? Garbage you read on some web page,
> with Elvis sightings and get-rich-quick schemes? Or did some "Former
> High Level Mason" and snake-oil salesman sell you a brochure?
No I make this judgement based on the racist history of the Freemasons along
with their continued denial to allow interracially mixed people into their
lodges as well as interracial couples.
>
> Brother Gene .*.
Sam
to start their own Masonic Lodges separate from the whites because the White
Lodges will not admit blacks to their lodge. You are obfuscating the issue
by hiding the truth. And you know as well as I do that Freemasons will not
admit a black into their exclusively white lodges in most areas let alone
admit a black man married to a white woman. I challenge you to provide just
one instance where this is true because you can't. All it takes is just one
person in the lodge who is offended by the black being married to a white
woman an he will not be admitted. Actually the fact that white Freemasons
will not admit a biracial man or a man married to another race into their
lodges is a mute point because most lodges in the USA where whites meet will
mot even admit a black man. Like I said that is why the blacks had to start
lodges of their own.
Yes different races are welcome in Freemasonry but in racially segregated
lodges in most cases.
Sam
Jimmy <nob...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:37cfbc7a...@news.shore.net...
> On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:21:31 -0400, "Sam" <ta...@donet.com> wrote:
>
> >but white Freemasons
> >believe they are superior to blacks. I simply stated the TRUTH
>
>
> Unfortunately that's not the TRUTH Sam, it's a lie.
> Men of all colors, backgrounds, and religions are welcome in
> Freemasonry.
Welcome to become a Mason in racially segregated lodges in the vast majority
of the cases.
>
> Jimmy.
>
Sam
Irish. Not hardly a biracial person or union. I challenge you to provide
just one instance of a REAL interracial family involved in a White lodge. Or
your idea of an interracial couple could be a Jew married to a white
Christian. This is one exeption that Freemasons oddly do not condemn. See
the truth about the Bible's view of interracial marriage below.
Your comments about the apostle Paul shows your lack of Bible understanding
as well as early Christian histery. Luke wrote one of the accounts about
Jesus and also the book of Acts which included much about the apostle Paul.
You forget the fact of what converted Paul. He was visted by Jesus that is
what. ALL the early Christians accepted Paul so if you do not acept his
inspired writings then you are an apostacy of the Christian faith because
ALL early Christians acepted Paul and his inspired writings. Paul was
personally visted by the resurected Jesus Christ.
Yes Jesus was a Jew but all who followed him are called Christians. You
inply similar ideas in your post as "Christian Identity" followers do. I
must assume that you do not believe that becoming a Christian is open to the
gentiles then do you? And I suspect that you also believe that the Jewish
people are still Jehovah God's chosen race. If so that is not true.
Below are two Questions from readers from earlier Watchtower magazines that
address whether or not the Bible condemns interracial marriage. I doesn't.
Needless to say the Watchtower Bible and tract Society have not seen the
need to publish this again as there is a large number of interracial couples
among Witnesses in the USA now. The racial barriors spoken of in the
articles are quickly eroding as more and more people marry outside their
race. Early Christians did not generally marry outside their race because
the different races were segregated physically.
Watchtower 1973 Questions from Readers
What is the view of Jehovah's witnesses toward interracial marriage?-France.
Jehovah's witnesses at all times seek to reflect the Biblical view of
matters. The Bible does not specifically discuss interracial marriage. It
does, however, show how Jehovah God views humankind and it provides guiding
principles for those considering marriage.
Superiority of race is nowhere taught or implied in the Bible. Jehovah God
accepts as his approved servants people out of all races, without
discrimination. The Bible tells us "[God] made out of one man every nation
of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the
appointed times and the set limits of the dwelling of men, for them to seek
God, if they might grope for him and really find him." (Acts 17:26, 27) "God
is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works
righteousness is acceptable to him."-Acts 10:34, 35.
So, the Bible nowhere implies that racial differences in themselves have
anything to do with the properness of marriage. Of the remarriage of widows,
the apostle Paul wrote: "A wife is bound during all the time her husband is
alive. But if her husband should fall asleep in death, she is free to be
married to whom she wants, only in the Lord." (1 Cor. 7:39) Thus the
Christian is free to marry anyone who is Scripturally and legally free to do
so, as long as that one is truly a fellow believer.
Are there any other factors, then, worth considering? Yes, for Christians
seek to exercise good judgment and wisdom in all they do. Among other
things, they are encouraged to "go on walking in wisdom toward those on the
outside," those outside the Christian congregation.-Col. 4:5.
In many areas interracial marriages are becoming increasingly common. People
are traveling more, and often find the ways and customs of people of other
lands attractive. War, too, has played a part, and many European and North
American soldiers have married Asiatic wives. There is, then, a somewhat
broadened viewpoint on the part of many toward interracial marriage.
Nevertheless, not all persons share this broadened viewpoint, nor do all
appreciate Bible standards. Many deep-seated prejudices remain in the world
of mankind. A Christian, being realistic, must face life as it is-not as he
wishes it might be.
In a few places, there are even laws making interracial marriages illegal.
When that is the case, Christians are under Scriptural obligation to obey
them, as such laws do not make it impossible for them to worship God with
"spirit and truth." (John 4:24; Rom. 13:1) Of course, if a Christian would
prefer to move to a locality where such laws are not enforced, he is
certainly free to do so.
In other communities, local prejudices produce discrimination and unkind
treatment toward those of certain races of mankind. These prejudices do not
make interracial marriage wrong. For the discerning Christian, nonetheless,
they may give cause for thought as to the advisability of such marriage. No
matter what the racial backgrounds of the mates, marriage of itself requires
much adjustment on the part of both persons to be successful and to bring
happiness. Human imperfection causes all marriages to bring some measure of
'tribulation in the flesh,' as the apostle Paul wisely points out. (1 Cor.
7:28) In certain localities, where racial prejudices are strong, this could
put added strain on the marital relationship and could be especially trying
for any children resulting. So the Christian should give thoughtful
consideration to the probable consequences before entertaining the prospect
of interracial marriage.
Persons of different races may have very similar backgrounds, culturally,
socially and as to education. Or their backgrounds may be very different.
Sometimes the varied habits, attitudes and customs that go with different
backgrounds seem to add interest to the marriage union. Yet widely differing
backgrounds, even among marriage mates of the same race, can and sometimes
do give rise to problems, making marital adjustment more difficult. In
making his decision, the Christian should also rightly weigh these
factors-for the other person's happiness as well as his own.
The Christian is under obligation to proclaim the good news of the Kingdom
to others. (Matt. 24:14; 28:19, 20) As a factor, then, he may consider
whether or not interracial marriage is likely to create a seriously adverse
effect on the attitude of the people in his community toward this
Kingdom-announcement work. The examples of Christ Jesus and his apostles
show that they were willing to forgo things to which they had a right rather
than severely hinder persons from being receptive to the truth of God's
Word.-Rom. 15:3; 1 Cor. 10:32, 33.
However, after weighing all these factors thoughtfully, each Christian must
make his own decision-in good conscience and motivated by love for God and
for his neighbor.
Watchtower 1960Questions from Readers
Is it wrong for a white person and a colored one to marry if they truly love
each other? Does the Bible give any counsel in this regard?-W. M., U.S.A.
God's Word does not forbid marriage between the races. On the contrary, it
shows that all races are related in that they all came from one man
originally. (Acts 17:26) No one race is esteemed better in God's sight than
another. As the apostle Peter expressed it: "God is not partial, but in
every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to
him."-Acts 10:34, 35.
What God's Word does command is that dedicated Christians should marry "only
in the Lord." Should it happen that one or the other had been married
before, it would be necessary that they be Scripturally free; either in that
the mate is deceased or has been legally divorced because of adultery.-1
Cor. 7:39.
Obviously, those who marry seek happiness. And the Scriptures indicate that
a marriage or wedding should be a very happy occasion. The countless happily
married couples give evidence that marriage can bring deep satisfactions,
contentment and much joy. However, it also follows that due to human
imperfection marriage does bring with it a certain amount of "tribulation in
their flesh," as the apostle Paul terms it.-1 Cor. 7:28.
It is quite likely that those who marry across racial lines will have more
of this tribulation than will others. Christians cannot change prevailing
human customs, prejudices and laws but must put up with them. They should
therefore take a very realistic view of matters and recognize the added
difficulties such a marriage will have to face. In many parts of the earth
there is still much racial discrimination, and entering such a marriage may
result in restricting the Christian's opportunities for preaching the good
news of God's kingdom. Also, children born of such a marriage most likely
will face similar added obstacles as soon as they are old enough to mingle
with other children.
Then again, the law in certain lands and states forbids interracial
marriage. Since Christians must recognize Caesar's right to regulate
marriage, Christians residing in such states or lands and contemplating
interracial marriage would have to move to a land or state where such
marriages are legal, and it would be inadvisable for them to return to their
own land or state or to go to any others having such laws.
In view of these factors, those who contemplate such a marriage will do well
to consider the step seriously. Is it truly love or chiefly physical
attraction? Would it be in the best interests of both? Is this marriage the
best possible solution to their problem or reason for wanting to marry?
Before marriage the love between two persons may seem sufficiently strong,
but is it strong enough to endure the added obstacles such a marriage brings
with it? If two persons of different races decide to take such a step, no
one should criticize them. The really important factors, it may not be
forgotten, are those plainly stated in the Scriptures.
Why did Jesus insert the parenthetical statement "let the reader use
discernment," as recorded at Matthew 24:15? Should we not use discernment
whenever considering the application of prophecy?-R. B., U.S.A.
True, discernment should at all times be used when considering the Word of
God, but there is apparently a special need to be alert as to the
application of the portion of Daniel's prophecy referred to in Matthew
24:15. "Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes
desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy
place, (let the reader use discernment)."
The Jews applied Daniel 11:31, to which Jesus was here making reference, to
the pollution of the temple by Antiochus IV (Epíphanes) in the year 168 B.C.
Since this application, which is still commonly accepted, was incorrect,
Jesus apparently added the word of caution so that we would not fall into
the same error. Far from being fulfilled back there, Daniel's prophecy
regarding the "disgusting thing that causes desolation" is having
fulfillment in our day as part of the great sign proving Christ's second
presence. As pointed out time and again in the Watch Tower publications, it
is the Devil's substitute for God's kingdom, at present the United Nations,
for which reason it is disgusting in God's sight, and it causes desolation
in that all those that put their trust in it instead of in God's kingdom
will be desolated, destroyed, at Armageddon.
At 1 Corinthians 11:29 we read: "For he that eats and drinks eats and drinks
judgment against himself if he does not discern the body." Is this body
spoken of here still Christ's human body, mentioned in the context, or is it
the body of 144,000 spirit sons?
Yes, the body that is here referred to and that is to be discerned if one
does not want to eat condemnation to himself is still the literal body of
the Lord Jesus Christ, the same as in the preceding verses of this chapter.
It is not the spiritual body of Christ composed of 144,000 members. What the
apostle Paul is here emphasizing is the need for the participants to
appreciate the value of Christ's sacrifice in their behalf and not to be so
dull in their sensibilities as to partake of the emblematic bread without
regard to its symbolizing the precious sacrifice of Jesus Christ and thus
eating this emblem in a way that is unworthy of the sacrifice of Christ and
that does indignity to it.
Jack Hickey
>And you know as well as I do that Freemasons will not
>admit a black into their exclusively white lodges in most areas let alone
>admit a black man married to a white woman. I challenge you to provide just
>one instance where this is true because you can't.
One instance:
I am sponsoring a Black man into my lodge later this year, when he
returns to Massachusetts. He is married to a White woman. Second
marriage for both. They are raising three fine children, one White,
one Black, one Mixed, all Brothers.
He has already been accepted; he hasn't been initiated yet because
he's been out of state. His wife has already been invited to join
OES.
You're way off base here, Sam. As usual.
Jack Hickey, MM
Senior Deacon (Junior Warden-Elect)
Chairman, Masonic Awareness Committee
Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA
www.masslodges.org/IsaiahThomas/default.htm
allegans contraria non audiendis est
.
Sam
>
> *Believing in interracial marriage is the antithesis of racism. Plain and
> *simple. So your statement is fallacious.
>
> Get a dictionary. You will find that racism is the act of classifying
> people according to their race. Your judgement of them may be
> favorable or unfavorable, but if you are judging them, or recommending
> something to them, because of their race or racial mix, you are
> committing a racist act.
>
> Look it up.
>
> The net result of this is this: Classifying marriages as interracial
> is racist. For or against, it is racist.
racism (râ´sîz´em) noun
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or
ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
- rac´ist adjective & noun
Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version
licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in
accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
No - your embellishment of the definition is your own. It is not supported
by fact. I do not believe any particular race is superior but I do believe
the FACT that interracial marriage strengthens the gene pool. All races have
a mixture of sizes and abilities and no race is superior to each other so by
the REAL definition of racism I AM NOT A RACIST. But on the other hand you
as a Freemason are racist because you do frown on interracial marriage.
>
> *Oh really now? Can you give us some details? What races are you refering
to?
>
> I know both Masons, and their wives, who are Black, Native American,
> Indian (from India and thereabouts), Asian, Eskimo and any other
> racial description you care to name. We eat together at the pot luck
> dinners every Month.
You didn't answer the question. You know of nobody among the Masons that are
interracially wed. Freemasons believe the reces should not mix and that is
racist. Most lodges in the USA are racially segregated among blacks and
whites.
>
> *A German married to a Dutch doesn't count. Or a French married to a Brit
> *doesn't count. You get the picture.
>
> Yes, you are confusing Nationality with Race.
No I am not confusing Nationality with race you are. You know of no White
Mason married to a black women or vice versa do you? It just doesn't happen
among Masons.
>
> *I believe your little attempt at decept
> *isn't working because I am sure you arbitraily count different caucation
> *nationals as different races when in reality they are closely related.
>
> No, I was counting Caucasian, Asian, Negro, and Indian as races.
Name any interracial marriages you know of among the Masons. You can't
because there are none. More specifically a black married to a white
especially.
>
> *I guess it would be better to say the condeming of whites and blacks
> *marrying is a Freemasons thing. See Ted Berry's post. It really sums it
up.
>
Answer the question Eugene would you vote no to an applicant to your own
personal lodge solely for the reason they were a white man married to black
women? Or how about this are there any blacks in your personal lodge? I am
not talking about picnics where different racially segregated lodges meet
together. I am talking about your personal lodge Eugene. Are there any
blacks in it? If so would you vote no to an applicant to your lodge for the
sole reason he was a black man married to a white woman? I believe you are
attempting to deceive Eugene Goldman by evading the point.
>
> Brother Gene .*.
<Satanic URLs Snipped>
> MBBFMN #387
Sam
will stay in touch with you Jack Hickey as I am adding you to my contacts
list and I will see if he actually gets his unanimous vote into the lodge.
Highly doubtful but hey you never know.
>Jack Hickey wrote in message:
>
> One instance:
>
> I am sponsoring a Black man into my lodge later this year, when he
> returns to Massachusetts. He is married to a White woman. Second
> marriage for both. They are raising three fine children, one White,
> one Black, one Mixed, all Brothers.
>
> He has already been accepted; he hasn't been initiated yet because
> he's been out of state. His wife has already been invited to join
> OES.
>
> Jack Hickey, MM
> Isaiah Thomas Lodge
> Worcester MA
> www.masslodges.org/IsaiahThomas/default.htm
Nice picture of a bunch of old white Masons on the site above. I must asume
the lodge he speaks of is a white lodge. Good for you that you have seen
through the racism in Freemasonry and decided to nominate your token black
man married to a white woman so you can say there is at least one example. I
will stay in touch and with you and see if he actually gets admited.
Sam
Sam
Ted Berry
"Sam" <ta...@donet.com> wrote:
> That simply is not true an you know it. In most areas of the USA
blacks had
> to start their own Masonic Lodges separate from the whites because
the White
> Lodges will not admit blacks to their lodge.
The entire United States of America was officially segregated until
just a few decades ago.
I will REPEAT (for probably the fourth time) the master of my lodge is
a black man. One of the other officers is a black man. I was in a
"regular" lodge with 30+ black men this past Saturday night. My lodge
raised a black man two months ago. One of my Masonic mentors is a Past
Grand Master of Prince Hall Masonry in Massachusetts. I am proud to
call all of these men my Brothers.
--
Ted Berry 32' PSD
Douglas Pavey
wrote, then attack it part by part, without having my own words as a
simple reference?
In article <dOkz3.371$Dj...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Sam" <ta...@donet.com> writes:
|> Again your definition of a different race could be British compared to
|> Irish. Not hardly a biracial person or union.
This was one of your statements. That the people of England and Ireland get
together and stop fighting. the fighting was not about any issue of race -
it was about control and religion of the state/country.
|> I challenge you to provide
|> just one instance of a REAL interracial family involved in a White lodge.
There are at least four that I am aware of in my Lodge - and those are the active members that come around to most of the functions. Asian-Caucasian, American Indian-Caucasian and Indian-Caucasian.
We have members with all kinds of ethnic bacgrounds within the Lodge - from
Greece, Turkey, Iran, Sicily, Italy, Haiti and others. Your own short-
sightedness cannot differentiate between truth and fiction. I don't know
how many mixed relationships there are - and it is none of my darned
business to ask such a question.
|> Or
|> your idea of an interracial couple could be a Jew married to a white
|> Christian. This is one exeption that Freemasons oddly do not condemn. See
|> the truth about the Bible's view of interracial marriage below.
This is horse pucky.
|> Your comments about the apostle Paul shows your lack of Bible understanding
|> as well as early Christian histery. Luke wrote one of the accounts about
|> Jesus and also the book of Acts which included much about the apostle Paul.
|> You forget the fact of what converted Paul.
I know the story of Paul. He saw a vision while traveling on the road to
Damascus to kill some more Christians. Luke was his physician, who traveled
with Paul and took notes in the form of a diary, now found in Acts of the
Apostles. Perhaps the same conversion will happen to you, if you stay here
much longer. :-)
|> Yes Jesus was a Jew but all who followed him are called Christians.
Hey, I said that in my message to you as well....
|> You
|> inply similar ideas in your post as "Christian Identity" followers do.
I made no such reference to any ideas that they also have. I find their
fundamentalist ideas repulsive and not in line at all with those of my
own nor that of Freemasonry.
|> I
|> must assume that you do not believe that becoming a Christian is open to the
|> gentiles then do you?
Christianity is a Gentile thing. Jesus' calling was not to simply save the
Jews, but to offer G-d's message to all the people of the world, if they
were willing to listen. The only book of the NT that was directed at the
people of Isreal was the Pauls letter to the Hebrews. Paul's messages were
focused on saving the Gentiles. So my answer to you is an emphatic NO -
you are wrong. Paul did not even dare to hope to convert Jews to the new
religion of the day - Christianity.
|> And I suspect that you also believe that the Jewish
|> people are still Jehovah God's chosen race.
|> If so that is not true.
Jesus never said so, Paul never said so. Where do hou get this data?
G-d promised Abraham and Isaac and Noah that the tribes of Isreal were
always his chosen people.
|> Early Christians did not generally marry outside their race because
|> the different races were segregated physically.
As different classes of people - common peasants or laborers, slaves. You
do not marry below your class - or you become an outcast among your peers
and contemporaries. Remember the squabble about Lady Diana, before her
marriage to Prince Charles? It isn't just a race issue.
|> Nevertheless, not all persons share this broadened viewpoint, nor do all
|> appreciate Bible standards. Many deep-seated prejudices remain in the world
|> of mankind. A Christian, being realistic, must face life as it is-not as he
|> wishes it might be.
You might apply this thought to you actions sometime?
|> In certain localities, where racial prejudices are strong, this could
|> put added strain on the marital relationship and could be especially trying
|> for any children resulting. So the Christian should give thoughtful
|> consideration to the probable consequences before entertaining the prospect
|> of interracial marriage.
Prudent thoughts. Prejudices are difficult things to overcome, in the
community and schools especially. Children can be very cruel to others
that are different - in any way from all the others.
Jack Hickey
>It will be interesting to see if he actually gets admitted to the lodge.
As far as that goes, Sam, he's ALREADY been unanimously voted into
membership. He simply hasn't gone through the ceremonies yet.
>> www.masslodges.org/IsaiahThomas/default.htm
>Nice picture of a bunch of old white Masons on the site above.
Thank you for the compliment. I was rather disappointed with the
picture itself, I had some trouble scanning it so it turned out rather
grainy, I thought.
In any case, that picture of a "bunch of old white Masons" includes
two native Spanish speakers and one Native American (Indian). It is
true that there are no Black faces in the picture, but this is just
the office line; there are no Black officers THIS year.
>Good for you that you have seen through the racism in Freemasonry and
>decided to nominate your token black man married to a white woman so
>you can say there is at least one example.
I assure you, Sam, that I am sponsoring this man because he is a GOOD
man and a friend, and certainly not to prove anything to anyone.
Jack Hickey, MM
Senior Deacon (Junior Warden-Elect)
Chairman, Masonic Awareness Committee
Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA
www.masslodges.org/IsaiahThomas/default.htm
allegans contraria non audiendis est
.
Stephen Austin
>
>Our 36 year-old poster here, Sam Moser a/k/a Jerry Newport, has a long
>history of
>mental health problems. I say this not to be insulting to him but rather to
>alert
>you and others to the fact that he may really not be functioning at an adult
>level all of the time. He still believes that B-2 Bombers follow him around
>and
>that the X-Files story was written about him.
>
>No, I'm NOT making this all up. You can head to
>http://www.masonicinfo.com/newport.htm to read the whole story. There you'll
>also
>find links to many of Sam's postings about his own life (some of which he
>specifically asked me to add).
>
>Please try to be gentle with him in light of this information.
>
>Fraternally,
> Ed King
> http://www.masonicinfo.com -- Anti-Masonry: Points of View
>
> Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
Brother Ed,
Actually I felt that I was a little hard on him anyway. I should show more
temperance. I must admit I get very peeved at the insults against our
Fraternity here. As, I'm sure, all do. I will take your words of advice to
heart and act accordingly.
Thank you for the info.
Eugene Goldman.·.
*racism (râ´sîz´em) noun
*1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or
*ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
*2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
*- rac´ist adjective & noun
*No - your embellishment of the definition is your own. It is not supported
*by fact. I do not believe any particular race is superior but I do believe
*the FACT that interracial marriage strengthens the gene pool.
2. Descrimination or prejudice based on race. I see. Go on. Tell me
more.
*All races have a mixture of sizes and abilities
2. Descrimination or prejudice based on race. Continue, please.
*and no race is superior to each other so by
*the REAL definition of racism I AM NOT A RACIST. But on the other hand you
*as a Freemason are racist because you do frown on interracial marriage.
<LOL>
I do? <LOL> THAT is one of the most hilarious statements you have
made to date! It clearly demonstrates that you know nothing about
what you are saying.
*You didn't answer the question. You know of nobody among the Masons that are
*interracially wed.
<LOL>
Again, your opinions amuse me, but they are not based in reality. I
know, personally, dozens of Masons who "are interracially wed", just
within the two Lodges I belong to. When you add in the Masons I know
in other Lodges, just within this County, that number grows to the
hundreds. You really are a fool, if you believe your own words.
*Freemasons believe the reces should not mix and that is
*racist.
What "Freemasons" believe this? Where do you get your "information"?
That radio Rev, bilking innocent people out of their hard earned
incomes to support his frauds?
*Most lodges in the USA are racially segregated among blacks and
*whites.
They are? Fascinating. Where did you get this bit of fiction?
*No I am not confusing Nationality with race you are. You know of no White
*Mason married to a black women or vice versa do you?
Yes, I do, several. I know Black Masons married to White women as
well. Your point is?
It just doesn't happen among Masons.
Perhaps not in your fevered imagination, or those pamphlets you were
conned into buying, but in the real world, things are different from
what you have been told.
*Name any interracial marriages you know of among the Masons. You can't
*because there are none. More specifically a black married to a white
*especially.
What would those names mean to you? Roland Pritchard, Len Fritag, Sam
Jones, Lou Jones (no relation), Wayne Olson. Want more?
*Answer the question Eugene would you vote no to an applicant to your own
*personal lodge solely for the reason they were a white man married to black
*women?
I would not, and have never.
*Or how about this are there any blacks in your personal lodge?
Yes, there are.
*I am
*not talking about picnics where different racially segregated lodges meet
*together. I am talking about your personal lodge Eugene. Are there any
*blacks in it?
Yes, there are.
*If so would you vote no to an applicant to your lodge for the
*sole reason he was a black man married to a white woman?
I would not, and have never.
*I believe you are
*attempting to deceive Eugene Goldman by evading the point.
Why would I want to decieve Eugene Goldman? <ROFL> You really are
funny with some of this crap, you know that?
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Who said that?
Brother Gene .*.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
Eugene Goldman.·.
*I simply stated the TRUTH that
*interracial marriage between a black and a white etc. not only helps the
*black race but also the white.
2. Descrimination or prejudice based on race. Thank you for sharing.
*People in all races come in all sizes and
*abilities and no race is superior to another. In fact the way to better
*healthier children is through interracial marriage marrying a genetic line
*not related to you.
2. Descrimination or prejudice based on race. I see.
*The more diverse the blood line the better.
2. Descrimination or prejudice based on race. You have made your
point.
*I don't judge people according to race. All PURE races are equally inbred
*and no race is superior to another.
2. Descrimination or prejudice based on race. With an inherant
contradiction, no less. Very good.
*Get to the point Eugene, tell the people
*here how you feel personally about interracial marriage.
Marriage is a wonderful thing, especially when the participants love
one another enough to overcome social hurdles like your bigotry.
*How you feel about
*a black man marrying a white woman or vice versa and reveal the true racist
*nature of most Freemasons.
I count them among my friends and Brothers.
*Would you vote to admit a black into your
*personal lodge who was married to a white woman Eugene?
I would, and have.
*Answer the question honestly.
I have.
*Quite speaking like a crooked politician.
Thanks for sharing.
*Why don't you shed some light on this matter for us Eugene. Would allow the
*fact that a man was black and married to a white woman or a white man who
*was married to a black woman prevent you from voting yes to allow them
*entree into your personal lodge?
It would not, and has not in the past. Race is not a valid criteria
for balloting on an applicant for the fraternity. Neither his, nor
that of anyone else.
*Would you allow the sole fact that a man
*was half black and half white who was married to a native American Indian
*who was also half Chinese and had children prevent you from voting yes to
*enter your lodge?
I would not. Race, either that of the applicant, nor that of any
member of his family, nuclear or extended, is not a valid criteria for
balloting on his membership.
*I bet Eugene's lodge is one of those exclusive white only
*lodges.
What "exclusive white only Lodges"? Mine has members of every
description.
*But regardless answer the questions above Eugene honestly.
I have. Now tell me where you get these amusing notions.
*Well Eugene do you personally see it as a flaw in yourself that you condemn
*interracial marriage between blacks and whites etc.?
I do not "condemn interracial marriage between blacks and whites". I
do not "condemn" any marriage wherwe the two individuals truely love
one another and decide to spend their lives joined in Holy Wedlock, so
your question has no merit.
*Do you see it as a flaw
*in yourself that you would vote no to admit a black man married to a white
*woman or a white man married to a black woman into your lodge?
I would not, and have not, done so, so your question has no merit.
*Typical Freemason retort to discredit anyone publishing unfavorable
*information on their organization. Totally without merit because you are a
*secret society.
<LOL>
With no less than six usenet newsgroups, at least as many e-mail lists
and thousands of web pages, signs on buildings, phone numbers listed
in phone books - you have the temerity to call us a "secret society"?
That is laughable. What sort of "secret society" has a float in the
Rose Parade?
You really should get help with that, you know?
*And since you have sworn to uphold the secrets of the Lodge
*you are forced to lie even if you know something to be true that is
*published my Anti-Masonry people in order to hide your secrets.
I see. Thank you for sharing. Still seeing those black helicopters,
too?
*Any
*reasonable person out there unaffiliated with Masonry can see the conflict
*of interest you have of admitting anything someone says about the "lodge" is
*true even if it is considering Freemasonry IS a Secret Society bound by
*oaths that you must defend and preserve the secrets of Masonry and if you
*reveal any of those secrets it is a license for the other lodge members to
*cut your throat and disembowel you.
<LOL>
Was that airplane hovering or just flying slowly when it bombarded you
with microwaves?
*You among many Eugene Goldman. Address the issue. Would you allow the fact
*that an applicant to your own Lodge who was black married to a blond haired
*blue eyed white woman influence you to vote no solely on that fact and the
*fact that he also has children by her?
I would not and have not.
*No I make this judgement based on the racist history of the Freemasons along
*with their continued denial to allow interracially mixed people into their
*lodges as well as interracial couples.
Do you hear voices too, or are your delusions confined to thoughts?
Marty Brockman
Sam wrote:
>
> That simply is not true an you know it. In most areas of the USA blacks had > to start their own Masonic Lodges separate from the whites because the White > Lodges will not admit blacks to their lodge. You are obfuscating the issue > by hiding the truth. And you know as well as I do that Freemasons will not > admit a black into their exclusively white lodges in most areas let alone > admit a black man married to a white woman. I challenge you to provide just > one instance where this is true because you can't.
In Ontario, and specifically in my Lodge we have men of all colours. You
are a person who has no knowledge of what is reality.
All it takes is just one > person in the lodge who is offended by the
black being married to a white woman an he will not be admitted.
Actually the fact that white Freemasons will not admit a biracial man
or a man married to another race into their lodges is a mute point
because most lodges in the USA where whites meet will mot even admit a
black man. Like I said that is why the blacks had to start lodges of
their own.
>
Any man of any colour, race, creed or colour are admitted to Lodges in
Ontario.
> Yes different races are welcome in Freemasonry but in racially segregated lodges in most cases.
>
This statement is absolutely FALSE.
>>
Marty Brockman
I.P.M. Bedford Lodge #638, AF&AM, GRC, Toronto
Kansan1225
Many Masonic jurisdictions do not accept African Americans on a routine
basis.
The Oklahoma Mason Chuck Easttom stated in this Newsgroup a few months
ago that his ("white") Lodges in Oklahoma do not accept African Americans
because many of the white members are prejudiced.
INDRIDG
thinks went on in biblical times? "Paul killing christians and Luke keeping a
diary", what a load of C_ _ _.
The craft brings with it to the individual brother what he is looking for and
what he needs. Jesus Christ is my lord and saviour. I talk to him every
single day and I know he hears me because he answers my prayers. If and when
my saviour tells me that my membership in the lodge and/or my association with
my brothers, displeases him, you can bet your A_ _ that I will leave. Until
then, your opinions are just that. Your opinions.
Bro. CaptDon
Peter Pedrotti
<nonsense>
=======================================
Dear Reader,
That message was from a frequent poster to alt.freemasonry who
alternately adopts one of two personalities in his writings. He is
usually a mildly entertaining jokester who writes intricate, but
meaningless "numerological interpretations" of all manner of events in
terms of a fictitious global conspiracy for which he has invented the
name "CLuMs". This is supposed to stand for "Clandestine Luciferian
Masons", his air-headed spoof of Freemasonry ("The Masons"). His
tiresome litany of goofball "explanations" of events is generally
meant to cast us in a ridiculous light, rather like the "Stonecutters
Lodge" in the Simpsons TV cartoons.
As only a comic nuisance, he would be tolerable. Unfortunately, he has
also revealed himself to be a particularly vicious anti-Jewish bigot
and hatemonger, masquerading as a "Christian". His toxic posts in this
vein are disgusting examples of exactly the antithesis of the gentle
aims of our venerable Fraternity. I sincerely recommend that everyone
here refrain from responding to him.
Masons are always proudly willing and eager to discuss our beloved
"Craft" with any interested inquirer. You are invited to form an
accurate impression of our wonderful organization by visiting these
websites:
<www.grandlodge-nc.org/freemasonry_revealed.htm>
<www.odr.org/what_is.htm>
<http://users.uniserve.com/~ttrevor/anti-masonry_faq.html>
<www.masonicinfo.com/>
<www.afnetinc.com/~walrusss/squareandcompass.html>
<www.2be1ask1.com/emason/index.html>
<www.scottish-rite.org/cldc.htm>
<www.shrinershq.org/Hospitals/Directry/northerncalifornia.html>
I apologize to you that this person's provocations force me to
communicate in this "form letter".
Warmest regards,
Peter W. Pedrotti, Jr.
Past Master, San Francisco Lodge #120
Past Master, Oakland Durant Rockridge Lodge #188
Member in Perpetuity, National Sojourners, Inc.
Member, Heroes of '76
Associate Member, Chinese Acacia Club
Member, San Francisco Bodies, AASR
Noble, Aahmes Temple, AAONMS
<webm...@ODR.org>
=======================================
INDRIDG
You are absolutely right that if just one man in a lodge does not want a black
man admitted, he can by his one vote, prevent it. The point you are missing is
that a man can be denied admission if a MM doesn't like him because he is a
lawyer, bald, stupid, smells bad, picks his nose, passes gas, or whatever.
I'm a fourth generation MM, living in the southwest, and from what I have seen
MM's as a group are much less likely to harbor such prejudices.
Oh, by the way, in my lodge 1/3 of the active members are minorities, including
the WM.
Thank you.
Bro. capt.don
Thomas Hooker
sites to look over.
Fraternally,
Thomas Hooker
Louis Priester #1150 AF&AM, Vickery #1351 AF&AM,
Chalk Mt. #894 AF&AM, Texas.
Peter Pedrotti
[On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:17:05 -0400, "Sam" <ta...@donet.com> wrote:
[
[> But on the other hand you
[>as a Freemason are racist because you do frown on interracial
marriage.
[>
[
[Sam:
[
[Please explain this to us. How is it that we frown on interracial
[marriage ? I don't want to hear what the Bible says about it
[because it is irrelevant. I also don't really care about your
[opinion on racism - if you're not a racist, great.
[All I'd like to know is where you heard or read that Mason's
["frown on interracial marriage".
[
[Jimmy
[
[[I might also point out that the membership never meets a Mason's
[wife before a member is voted (and quite often, never after). We
[have no idea what race his wife is. In fact, very few of the
[members even meet the candidate to know what race _he_ is.
[But, that still doesn't tell us why Sam thinks we don't like
["mixed" marriages]
Jimmy,
He doesn't believe we do; he only wants others to think we do as part
of his untiring campaign to discredit us, whatever lie it takes.
Peter
Ian J McKiver
just to add weight to your point, I am marrying my girlfriend
of ten years next month. She is Asian (born in the province of Gujurat in
India). I am of British descent. Not only that, but she is a Lady Mason.
So, it appears that Freemasonry accepts Brethren of all nationalities and
backgrounds, and endorses mixed marriages (judging by the number of Brethren
that will be attending <G>).
S&f,
Ian.
Ian J McKiver PPJGD (Hants & IoW)
KIV11
Let me be one of he first here to offer my congratulations on your pending
marriage. Best wishes for a happy life together.
Fraternally,
W.'. George F. Kivowitz, 32'
Guiding Light-Olympia Lodge #808
1st Nassau District (Long Island)
Valley of Rockville Centre, NY
Freeport Chapter 302 RAM
Adjutant - Mort Weitman Post #50 Masonic War Veterans
Grand Lodge F&AM, State of NY
Jack Wise
votes for rejection. This is to prevent the predjudices of one
individual from keeping qualified individuals from becoming members.
INDRIDG wrote:
>
> Sam, I don't know you but from reading your words I know your heart.
>
> You are absolutely right that if just one man in a lodge does not want a black
> man admitted, he can by his one vote, prevent it.
< < < S N I P > >
>
> Thank you.
>
> Bro. capt.don
Ted Berry
ki...@aol.com (KIV11) wrote:
> Ian:
> Let me be one of he first here to offer my congratulations on your
pending
> marriage. Best wishes for a happy life together.
Hear, hear!!
Ian J McKiver
many thanks for your kind wishes and
thoughts.
S&F,
Ian.
Ian J McKiver PPJGD (Hants & IoW)
jruble
j Dolan wrote in message <37CD4B...@sover.net>...
>Sam wrote:
>
>Sam, if it's "plain and simple", perhaps you could help me by pointing out
>where that is elaborated upon in Masonry? I've never heard of such a thing.
>Masonry is founded on the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man.
>What you suggest differs more than substantially, could you please be
>specific? Such has not been my experience, at all.
>
>jim MM
>White River #90
>Bethel, Vt.
Brother Jim
It's very simple. In Sam's group (JW) you are taught to believe the
teachings of the Mother (their church) as well as (or more than) the
teachings of the Bible.
I really don't want to get into religion, but, I can give you quoptes from
the Watchtower to that effect.
So, in your family, if opinions conflicted, who did you go with?
SCOTTY
jruble
Sam wrote in message ...
>
>Eugene Goldman.·. <br_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:42:37 -0400, "Sam" wrote:
>>
>>
>> The net result of this is this: Classifying marriages as interracial
>> is racist. For or against, it is racist.
>
have
>a mixture of sizes and abilities and no race is superior to each other so
by
>as a Freemason are racist because you do frown on interracial marriage.
>
>>
Sam
I have a question for you, but, before I ask it I want to state that one of
my aunts is Japanese, a lovely lady.
Do you have any children? Would you encourage them to marry someone of
another race?
In particular, if you are Caucasian, would you encourage your daughter to
marry an Afro-American (I hate that term, but, it seemed appropriate).
Would you want your grandchildren to be brought up in a world that looks
down on mixed parantages? Aside from the fact that they shouldn't.
I don't have that problem, but, I would have discouraged either of my
children from a mixed marriage, for the reason stated above.
If that makes me a racist. So Mote It Be.
SCOTTY
jruble
Stephen Austin wrote in message
<19990901155859...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>Sammy pitifully posted:
>
>>Quit twisting my words.
>
>They're your words dude. Maybe you should make yourself more clear.
>
>>I preach a gospel of love.
>
>If that were only the case. Actually you're being nothing less than
annoying.
>Perhaps you should go prey on the weak-minded. You'll find neither
sympathy
>nor gullibility here.
>
>I must admit though, after reading your post with your poor grammar and
shoddy
>spelling I am seriously beginning to believe that you are, in fact, inbred.
>
>Stephen Austin, MM
>Charleston Lodge #407
With a human?
SCOTTY
jruble
CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
<19990901164612...@ng-fj1.aol.com>...
>>I believe we all came from Adam and
>>Eve.
>
>Even lawyers??
>Glen Cook
>Coo...@aol.com
>
Yeah, unfortunately.
Just goes to prove that even when GOD does something, man can screw it up.
SCOTTY
Mike Wells
Sam <ta...@donet.com> wrote in message
news:Uclz3.430$Dj....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
and addressed to Gene Goldman,
> You didn't answer the question. You know of nobody among the Masons that
are
> interracially wed. Freemasons believe the reces should not mix and that is
> racist. Most lodges in the USA are racially segregated among blacks and
> whites.
>
> No I am not confusing Nationality with race you are. You know of no White
> Mason married to a black women or vice versa do you? It just doesn't
happen
> among Masons.
>
> Name any interracial marriages you know of among the Masons. You can't
> because there are none. More specifically a black married to a white
> especially.
William,
Your posts indicate you are primarily concerned with White/Black marriage.
Why is that? Do you discount other interracial marriages because admission
of any other liaison would negate your argument? In the same context,
please define what percentage of race determines one's racial
classification.
--
Mike Wells
Normal #673, A.F.&A.M., Illinois
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Bordure
to there is interracial marrages. The thing that there is little of spouses of
different religious faiths. I will admit I personally know noone amoung my
masonic brethern who are part of a black/white marriage. but then I know of no
one of my aquaintance who is in one either. Statistically that is not too
surprising. Over all there are not that many. If you consider the average age
of most lodges most of them were married in the 60's It just was not that
common and still by the way is not. At least in the US
Bordure.
Fred Larson
#37 AFAM Edmond
AASR Valley of Guthrie
No one has the right to tell someone else what they believe in is wrong unless
they are willing to give everyone else the same right.
theill...@my-deja.com
>
> I have a question for you, but, before I ask it I want to state
> that one of my aunts is Japanese, a lovely lady.
>
> Do you have any children? Would you encourage them to marry someone
> of another race?
>
Try perhaps to sway them to someone with a profession, making
money to support a better lifestyle. Even so, I can see your
point, you can only teach them what you know. When we encourage
people to do this or that, it is always with good intentions seen
from 'our' point of view.
> In particular, if you are Caucasian, would you encourage your
> daughter to marry an Afro-American (I hate that term, but, it
> seemed appropriate).
What about the son?
> Would you want your grandchildren to be brought up in a world that
> looks down on mixed parantages? Aside from the fact that they
> shouldn't.
>
Life is not all about aceptance but rejection too. When we are rejected
for apparently unjust reasons it forces us to think. But, it is only
then that we begin to see people for what they are and not what we
imagine they are. Our projected ideas begin to fade. When everyone
accepts us we feel very positive inside and so we project out that
positive energy to everyone around and they all look very good to us.
But for many men, fear will strike at their hearts if perchance God
should so will that they see their true face in the mirror one day.
> I don't have that problem, but, I would have discouraged either of my
> children from a mixed marriage, for the reason stated above.
>
Discourage a son from entering the military, he could get killed!
> If that makes me a racist. So Mote It Be.
>
If God put it in your heart, then you cannot root it out, only
that if God didn't put it in your child's heart, whyfore should
ye seek to put an end to that?
> SCOTTY
MasonTruth
California and in California Lodges we can find men of many Races and men who
are married to women form many Races. A bit of background on this Freemason: My
Father's Father was from Spain, he married my Grandmother from Puerto Rico.
Grand Parents on my Mother's side were both Eurpean Jews. Pop married Mom and
had three Jew/Ricans or Puerto/Jews.. Father's Uncle joined the Lodge when he
came here from Spain. Pop joined what was pretty much a German Lodge in New
York. Always was treated with dignity, and Brotherly Love.. I joined a Lodge
and certainly have a different background. I was welcome with open arms and am
an Officer in the Line at present. I have 3 Brothers that are Masons. One
Practicing the Jewish Faith, Two Christian. There is no Race that is not
represented in Moreno Valley Lodge # 804. It is foolish to say that Racism
anywhere does not exist but I have seen Masonry tear down many barriers
including Racial ones. THe majority of States are in Recognition with P.H.
Lodges. In time all Grand Lodges will Recognize P.H. Grand Lodges and visa
versa. number of the States that are not in Recognition are working it out.
Problem with people like this sam fellow is that he seems to be a closet
Racist. He spends too much time trying to tell us how wonderful he is.. and how
wonderful his chosen Faith is..Seems he is trying to conivince himself and is
in need of a bit of attention. He will not get it from me. I have seen him
post how his wife is a minority as proof that he is not a Racist. (Hmm) He
posts information about Masonry while he has no concept of Masonry or what it
stands for. I suggest that this man study a bit before he takes on a subject.
He is a self impose expert on whatever subject we happen to be on..TO be quite
honest I see that he even lacks knowledge of his own Faith. He wouldn't be
argueing here if he was as dedicated as he claims to be.. Want to know about
Masonry? Ask a Mason, visit a Masonic Site, E-mail a Mason, visit a Masonic
Lodge.. We are there to answer questions and welcome sincere people with open
arms. Some people like samm & kansan need to make themselves seem important.
What a shame!
Sincerely & Respectfully
MasonTruth
Bro. Manny Blanco (Junior Warden)
Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
MasonTruth
[Middle English ypocrite, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from
Greek hypokrites actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai]
First appeared 13th Century
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
TJAM
Greek plays, like many other cultures, used men
to play the parts of women. These men dressed
up as women were called hypocrites. There may
be more uses, but this use is the only one I
have heard of.
TJAM
MasonTruth <mason...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990906120631...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
jruble
MasonTruth wrote in message
<19990906120631...@ng-fm1.aol.com>...
>hyp*o*crite (noun)
>
>[Middle English ypocrite, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from
>Greek hypokrites actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai]
>
>First appeared 13th Century
>
> : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
>
>
>MasonTruth
>Bro. Manny Blanco (Junior Warden)
>Moreno Valley Lodge # 804
>Moreno Valley, CA
Brother Manny
Are you referring to several of our "friends" who frequently post here, and
waste a considerable amount of band width by re-posting all of their "unding
prose" in every answer that they make?
For shame.
They are "mentally challanged". We need to be patient with them. NO.
SCOTTY
MasonTruth
>From: "jruble" jru...@excelonline.com
>Date: Thu, 09 September 1999 06:42 PM EDT
>Message-id: <rtgdmf...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>They are "mentally challanged". We need to be patient with them. NO.
>
>SCOTTY
>
Thanks Bro. Scotty, sometimes I get carried away...
Sincerely & Fraternally
Chuck Easttom
kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
> Eugene Goldman wrote:
>
> >For the most part,
> >however, the demographics of Masonry strongly resemble those of
> >Churches, Scout Troops and PTAs. In most predominantly Black
> >neighborhoods, you will find very few PTA members or Scouts who are
> >not Black. In most predominantly White neighborhoods, the same is
> >true for Whites. In most predominantly Asian neighborhoods... And so
> >on. The racial make up of Masonic Lodges is governed by the same
> >rules which govern that of Scouting or PTA.
>
> This answer is typical Masonic disinformation. In many areas
of the U.S.
> "white" Lodges blackball African Americans on a routine basis. It
only takes
> one or just a few racist Masons to exclude any black applicant.
>
> The Mason Chuck Easttom of Oklahoma confirmed this practice in
his state
> a few months ago on this NG. He wrote that no African Americans had
been
> allowed to join Oklahoma "white" Lodges as far as he knew.
>
>
I positively hate to agree with any of the nuts like Kansan, but it is
true that Oklahoma masonry is rampant with racism and segregation. At
the same time there is virtually no standard applied to white
applicants. We have allowed some of the worst white trash in the state
into our lodges. I know personally of town drunks, publically known as
such, and wife beaters that have been elected to the top three lodge
offices in Oklahoma.
Due to this type of behavior, I wrote a lengthy letter a few months ago
to the Oklahoma Grand Master (Bill Clure) and to the McAlester Scottish
Rite Valley resigning my membership. Let me state for the record that
the anti masons paranoid fantasies of devil worship and political
conspiracy inside the lodge is utter nonsense. I left masonry because
in Oklahoma it is dominated by ignorant, racists, rednecks.
--
Chuck Easttom
http://www.geocities.com/~chuckeasttom/
Kansan1225
Chuck Easttom does not sugar-coat the truth, unlike the Masonic
apologists on this Newsgroup.
Jouni Hiltunen
> Chuck Easttom wrote:
>
> >I positively hate to agree with any of the nuts like Kansan...
To which Kansan replied
>
>
> Chuck Easttom does not sugar-coat the truth, unlike the Masonic
> apologists on this Newsgroup.
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- --
Jouni Hiltunen
==============
Member of Dogberts New Ruling Class, once he conquers this planet
we'll make the rest of you our domestic servants.
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Chuck Easttom
> apologists on this Newsgroup.
>
True Kansan, I do not sugar coat the truth. That is why I also, in
this same posting, refered to you as a "nut" and to the anti masonic
conpiracy theories as "paranoid".
Eugene Goldman.·.
<chucke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
*I positively hate to agree with any of the nuts like Kansan, but it is
*true that Oklahoma masonry is rampant with racism and segregation. At
*the same time there is virtually no standard applied to white
*applicants. We have allowed some of the worst white trash in the state
*into our lodges. I know personally of town drunks, publically known as
*such, and wife beaters that have been elected to the top three lodge
*offices in Oklahoma.
*
*Due to this type of behavior, I wrote a lengthy letter a few months ago
*to the Oklahoma Grand Master (Bill Clure) and to the McAlester Scottish
*Rite Valley resigning my membership. Let me state for the record that
*the anti masons paranoid fantasies of devil worship and political
*conspiracy inside the lodge is utter nonsense. I left masonry because
*in Oklahoma it is dominated by ignorant, racists, rednecks.
But do you see that as a function of Masonry, or as a function of
demographics? IOW, I know a couple of racists in Masonry here, too.
I have met far, far more in PTA, Scouting and other community
organizations than I have even heard of in Masonry. Ido not see
Masonry attracting bigots in the sort of numbers their representation
in society would suggest.
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Who said that?
Brother Gene .*.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission may be granted to others upon request.
Chuck Easttom
Partially it is demographics. But frankly if masonry had any standards
at all then the very first lodge in Oklahoma would have been selective
in who it allowed in and the selectivity would have continued.
Investigations in Oklahoma Masonry are laughable and cursory at best.
As to demographics, until recently I worked for a small Oklahoman
University. The average student club had less bickering, far less
racism, and more maturity than any Oklahoma Lodge meeting I ever
attended.
> |O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
> Who said that?
>
> Brother Gene .*.
> http://www.calodges.org/no442
> http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
> http://www.freemason.org
> MBBFMN #387
> And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good
Night!
>
> Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
> Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose,
permission may be granted to others upon request.
>
--
JEC
news:19990915072106...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
> Chuck Easttom does not sugar-coat the truth, unlike the Masonic
> apologists on this Newsgroup.
So true!! He's right!! You ARE nuts!!! Thanks for admitting it.
--
J.E. Carroll
Jefferson #38
Lothrop #21
GLoTexas
Eugene Goldman.·.
<chucke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
*Partially it is demographics. But frankly if masonry had any standards
*at all then the very first lodge in Oklahoma would have been selective
*in who it allowed in and the selectivity would have continued.
*Investigations in Oklahoma Masonry are laughable and cursory at best.
That is sad. Something should be done, of that there is no doubt.
the thing is, Masonry DOES have standards. They may not be adhered to
in Oklahoma. They sure are in San Diego. Not as strictly as I would
like, but they are adhered to here.
I still think that it is the individuals involved, and not the
fraternity that is responsible. Is there any *institutionalized*,
sanctioned, or official actions that promote these individuals and
their actions?
*As to demographics, until recently I worked for a small Oklahoman
*University. The average student club had less bickering, far less
*racism, and more maturity than any Oklahoma Lodge meeting I ever
*attended.
Do you have any experience with PTA, Scouting, Campfire, VFW, American
Legon, Elks, Moose, or Oddfellows? How are the other *fraternal*
organizations doing in this regard?
N757ZN
>Chuck Easttom does not sugar-coat the truth, unlike the Masonic
>apologists on this Newsgroup.
I can't believe that you, a recognized ANTI-SEMITE would complain about any
form of discrimination, religious, racial or otherwise. I'll bet if they were
treating Jews like this in Oklahoma, you'd be there in a flash with your
petition in hand.
Jerome