How to Leave Freemasonry
Peter Renzland
Jaime Trocky wrote on Sun, 23 Dec 2001 13:07:45 +0100:
> What happens if a member of a fraternity changed her/his behaviour and
> ideas, and so become unacceptable.
>
> Would she/hi be asked to leave ?
> Does it happen in real life ?
>
> What if member decides to leave on her/his free will. Is there
> any particular procedure ?
> Again, does it happen in real life ?
Let's start at the beginning: (details vary between jurisdictions)
Initiation into Freemasonry happens in a Lodge.
The new Mason becomes a member of the Lodge.
By virtue of his initiation (usually) he also becomes a member of the Craft.
He can resign from the Lodge. This is called "demit".
If he just stops paying lodge dues, his lodge will probably suspend him
for non-payment of dues (NPD).
If he is lodge-less, he is still a member of the Craft (i.e. a Mason),
in many jurisdictions. A.k.a. Unaffiliated, Unattached, or Mason at Large.
The question of whether one can resign from the Craft is a tricky one.
As long as he is a Mason, he is subject to Masonic Discipline.
If he violates a Masonic Law, he may be charged. This may result in
mediation or trial. If he is found guilty, he may be sentenced to
one of Reprimand, Definite Suspension (3 months to 3 years), Indefinite
Suspension. In any case he remains a Mason. (In many jurisdictions.)
If sentenced to Indefinite Supension, his lodge may recommend Expulsion.
Only Grand Lodge can Expel. If he is expelled, he is no longer a Mason.
In my jurisdiction, last year, there were no expulsions. One application
for re-instatement after 5 years of an expulsion was declined.
144 Reinstatements (After demit, or after Suspension). 1139 Resignations.
759 Suspensions (probably all NPD) There were also 1082 Initiations,
1245 Affiliations, and 1969 Deaths. There are about 60,000 members.
Hope that's helpful.
--
Peter Renzland .^.
Simcoe 644 GRC _!_
Toronto ON.CA !
Jaime Trocky
> In my jurisdiction, last year, there were no expulsions. One application
> for re-instatement after 5 years of an expulsion was declined.
> 144 Reinstatements (After demit, or after Suspension). 1139 Resignations.
> 759 Suspensions (probably all NPD) There were also 1082 Initiations,
> 1245 Affiliations, and 1969 Deaths. There are about 60,000 members.
>
> Hope that's helpful.
>
It clears the picture. I don't mean any offense, but it is very much like
being a member of a club.
I am afraid that my questions and answers from the group will leave many
conspiracy fans disappointed and disillusioned :)
Thank you, I have more questions for tomorrow.
JT
boazlebub
news:Q7lV7.79202$pa1.26...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> References: <3C25C911...@netscape.net
------ 8< (for succinctness only)
> If sentenced to Indefinite Supension, his lodge may recommend Expulsion.
> Only Grand Lodge can Expel. If he is expelled, he is no longer a Mason.
would this release the man in question from his obligations, oaths, vows or
promises?
regards
bryan
Peter Renzland
>> If sentenced to Indefinite Suspension, his lodge may recommend Expulsion.
>> Only Grand Lodge can Expel. If he is expelled, he is no longer a Mason.
>
> would this release the man in question from his obligations, oaths, vows or
> promises?
This is a difficult question. With many kinds of individual answers.
Here is one data point: The state of non-mason after expulsion
is different from the state of non-mason before initiation.
In principle it is possible to be re-instated after expulsion,
without re-inititiation or re-obligation.
Few deeds can be completely undone.
--
Peter Renzland .^.
Jason Fruge'
> would this release the man in question from his obligations, oaths, vows or
> promises?
The oath(s) in craft Masonry is/are taken in the name of the God, not in
the name of Freemasonry - so a person not longer being a Mason would
hardly release him from an obligation to deity.
--
Jason Fruge'
Overland Park Masonic Lodge #436 AF&AM (JS)
Northeast Kansas Valley, AASR
Overland Park, Kansas
Why bother building any more nuclear warheads until we use the ones we have?
jDolan
It would likely have to do with the (released) man's "obligations, oaths, vows or
promises", and how and to where/whom they were made, and their sincerity. My
interpretation of things has it that the fraternity is not where such things are
directed to, though it might well benefit from observance of same. I wouldn't
think that a cessation of membership would negate such a solemn thing, but others
might differ.
jHam You have the time, they might not:
White River #90 Feed the hungry with a click of your mouse:
Bethel, Vt. http://www.thehungersite.com <- what color is this?
David Simpson
<Jaime...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> In my jurisdiction, last year, there were no expulsions. One application
>> for re-instatement after 5 years of an expulsion was declined.
>> 144 Reinstatements (After demit, or after Suspension). 1139 Resignations.
>> 759 Suspensions (probably all NPD) There were also 1082 Initiations,
>> 1245 Affiliations, and 1969 Deaths. There are about 60,000 members.
>>
>> Hope that's helpful.
>>
>
>
>
>It clears the picture. I don't mean any offense, but it is very much like
>
>being a member of a club.
>
And that is exactly what it is.
>I am afraid that my questions and answers from the group will leave many
>conspiracy fans disappointed and disillusioned :)
>
>Thank you, I have more questions for tomorrow.
>
Ask away.
--
Regards
David Simpson (Remove spam blocker to reply)
(Unattached MM)
Old age and treachery will always overcome
youth and skill.
David Simpson
Bryan, the obligations, oaths, vows or promises are really a
declaration that the person making those promises is a man of honour.
They are made by the man in the presence of God and the assembled
brethren. The only person who can release anyone from those promises
is the man himself. If things progress to the point that the man is
expelled then he has, most likely, already broken those promises. The
lodge can no longer tolerate his presence as he has proven himself a
wilfully perjured individual who is not fit to be in the company of
honourable men.
Mike Wells
jDolan <jhd...@sover.net> wrote in message
news:3C26B986...@sover.net...
Indulge me while I present my belief on the matter.
It is proper to remember the promise that there is nothing in the Obligation
that will conflict with any duty one owes to G*d, his family, his neighbour,
his country or himself. If one's perspective changed so that a conflict
between his new belief and prior Obligation existed, then the Obligation
would be voided.
The Obligation was taken in the presence of the assembled Lodge. Having quit
or rejected the fraternity of the Lodge renders one released from that
condition of the Obligation.
The Obligation was taken in the name of G*d. Because Freemasonry does not
presume to define one's relationship with his Creator, it would be erroneous
for any Mason or body of Freemasonry to pronounce that another has violated
a personal obligation to G*d.
We must then consider the honour of the man as the final binding. If there
is a clear necessity in the mind of the Obligated to divulge that which he
has promised not to reveal, his honour remains intact. Should the revelation
be for spite or unworthy motive, the man has lost his honour. It is a matter
of his personal interpretation, as is his religion.
F&S,
Mike Wells
Normal #673, AF&AM, Illinois
Kirk "Loopy" Richardson
IMHO this would depend on how the person concerned viewed his oath in the
first place. I can only speak for myself, but I swore to maintain the
secrets of FM, there was no condition like, for as long as I remain a
Freemason, or any such thing. Therefore, since I swore the oath, with my
hand placed upon the Holy Bible, those secrets shall go with me to my grave,
whether I remain a Freemason (likely) or not (unlikely). But that is just
the way I see it, and everyone must act according to the dictates of their
own conscience.
--
Kirk Richardson EA
Clifton #254 Niagara Falls
"boazlebub" <boaz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:duuV7.29364$4z5.3...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
boaz lebub
news:3C26B38...@technogeeks.org...
> boazlebub wrote:
>
>
> > would this release the man in question from his obligations, oaths, vows
or
> > promises?
>
>
> The oath(s) in craft Masonry is/are taken in the name of the God, not in
> the name of Freemasonry - so a person not longer being a Mason would
> hardly release him from an obligation to deity.
excellent answer.
what if the aforementioned freemason demited or was expelled from the craft
because he no longer believed in a supreme being?
regards
bryan
Mike Restivo
The answer is by no means excellent. It is a subterfuge to take the
name of God in vain and abuse it to extract submissive obedience from
the candidate seduced into the masonic dens of social demons.
The covenant exists between the candidate and the order subject to both
party's honesty. That the order plots a deception ab origine in no way
compels any candidate, no matter who acts as his or her guarantor, God
or god-parents, to obey to the terms of a fraudulent mind cult scheme.
On the contrary, it is a social and religious blasphemy that is
perpetrated upon the uninformed and the weak. This cult must be flushed
out of the shadows from which its hate agents do their dirty work.
When the terms of the covenant are broken by one side or the other, the
obligations attached there to become null and void, unless specifically
agreed by both parties that they will survive the demise of the covenant
proper. That is not the case with the freemason cult their designs of
spiritual and psychological domination notwithstanding.
For the never refuted true facts exposing the mason cult:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mtronics/anticult/masonicmenace/
Don't allow these hate propagandists and social terrorists to subvert
your free democracy and religion or threaten you. Get informed by
facts. Wake up free citizens! How many people have to die at the hands
of terrorist fanatics before liberty is taken seriously, not for
granted?
† Mike Restivo
boaz lebub
news:3C2A5F3F...@sympatico.ca...
> boaz lebub wrote:
> >
> > "Jason Fruge'" <geoc...@technogeeks.org> wrote in message
> > news:3C26B38...@technogeeks.org...
> > > boazlebub wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > would this release the man in question from his obligations, oaths,
vows
> > or
> > > > promises?
> > >
> > >
> > > The oath(s) in craft Masonry is/are taken in the name of the God, not
in
> > > the name of Freemasonry - so a person not longer being a Mason would
> > > hardly release him from an obligation to deity.
> >
> > excellent answer.
> >
> > what if the aforementioned freemason demited or was expelled from the
craft
> > because he no longer believed in a supreme being?
> >
> > regards
> >
> > bryan
>
> The answer is by no means excellent. It is a subterfuge to take the
> name of God in vain and abuse it to extract submissive obedience from
> the candidate seduced into the masonic dens of social demons.
i thought the answer was excellent. don't automatically gainsay others
retorts as a means to your own ends.
> This cult must be flushed
> out of the shadows from which its hate agents do their dirty work.
i think you ought to be flushed. problem is, you probably won't go around
the 's'-bend. mind you, that would give someone the chance to break you up
with a stick.
Mike Restivo
Note carefully the violence that lurks within the pretenders after
morality. They are liars who think that they can get something by
serving the masonic cult. They will be used and abused. In the service
of masonic masters this freak thinks that force will have any affect.
If you weaklings can't defeat Restivo for many years of professional
lie, what makes you think that your threats will have any better
effect? What fools. They must be locked up in jail to protect citizens
from their threats.
Unknown
says...
>what if the aforementioned freemason demited or was expelled from the craft
>because he no longer believed in a supreme being?
A "demit" is a voluntary resignation from a Lodge, Bo. If the member is paid
up in dues, he can demit any time he wants to, and does not have to explain why.
Only his own personal sense of honor would impel him to keep the secrets he had
promised to protect. We simply have no way to force them to remain silent.
Jack Hickey
Master, Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA
Dennis O'Brien
article I referred to in that posting, very much attempts to answer
exactly the question in this thread as well - 'How to leave
Freemasonry' - in fact I think the article is subtitled 'How I escaped
from the Freemasons grip' or something similar. It can be read for
free by using the username/password of 'blood/clot' on the download
page.
> "Peter Renzland" <N011...@dancing.org> wrote in message
> news:Q7lV7.79202$pa1.26...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > References: <3C25C911...@netscape.net
>
>
boaz lebub
> > > This cult must be flushed
> > > out of the shadows from which its hate agents do their dirty work.
> >
> > i think you ought to be flushed. problem is, you probably won't go
around
> > the 's'-bend. mind you, that would give someone the chance to break you
up
> > with a stick.
>
> Note carefully the violence that lurks within the pretenders after
> morality. They are liars who think that they can get something by
> serving the masonic cult. They will be used and abused. In the service
> of masonic masters this freak thinks that force will have any affect.
> If you weaklings can't defeat Restivo for many years of professional
> lie, what makes you think that your threats will have any better
> effect? What fools. They must be locked up in jail to protect citizens
> from their threats.
you are the LIAR, restivo. if you are not, sue me for libel. oh, i forgot.
you have no money and i don't live in the same country as you. LIAR. the
only abuse i am getting at the moment is from you. LIAR.
no one has threatened you with violence, restivo. i was likening you to a
turd. that was all.
boaz lebub
regards
bryan
"Jack Hickey" <jhic...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:HstW7.11470$XC5....@www.newsranger.com...
jDolan
>
snip
>
> The answer is by no means excellent. It is a subterfuge to take the
> name of God in vain and abuse it to extract submissive obedience from
> the candidate seduced into the masonic dens of social demons.
Mike-
Do you 'do' parties?
It would be great to have someone who thinks/talks like you just mingling around
in the crowd.
What entertainment! People around here would talk about it for months. Just the
thing for pending cabin fever.
Hey, I'd even be your agent! Who knows, maybe there could be a movie in it.
Jason Fruge'
boaz lebub wrote:
> no one has threatened you with violence, restivo. i was likening you to a
> turd. that was all.
now that is wisdom!
hahahahhaha!
Peter Renzland
> "Jason Fruge'" <geoc...@technogeeks.org> wrote
>>> would this release the man in question from his obligations, oaths, vows
>>> or promises?
>> The oath(s) in craft Masonry is/are taken in the name of the God, not in
>> the name of Freemasonry - so a person not longer being a Mason would
>> hardly release him from an obligation to deity.
>
> what if the aforementioned freemason demited or was expelled from the craft
> because he no longer believed in a supreme being?
Good question, in light of the answer. So, let's fix the answer first:
1. Let's narrow our scope to the promise not to reveal.
2. This is a simple *promise*. The only involvement of God is as a
helper: "So help me God" (Just like in a court of law.)
What would happen in a court of law, if, after promising to tell the truth,
with the help of God, you stop believing in God? Does that mean you are
entitled to start lying? Of course you are. You're simply ignoring the
help you had requested before. Pretty straightforward. Oh, of course if
you do start lying you are committing perjury.
Another way to look at it: what does "so help me God" amount to.
Rhetorical question: If you believe in God and break the promise, are you
less culpable because you can blame it on God for not having helped enough?
Or are you more culpable because you have implicated God?
So, now, let's take a good look at all this.
If you have something, and then you give it up, it's gone.
Sales contracts are like that.
What if you want it back later?
Oaths of office are like that.
Non-disclosure agreements are like that.
Disregarding legalistic detail, a non-disclosure agreement is a promise
not to divulge private information.
How can you be released from it?
Thus, to say "GL cannont enforce anything" is informative but not useful
to our issue. When considering the morality of an action based on
responsibility and consequences, reward and punishment are unrelated to
morality. (Or are they?)
The only reasonable answer I can think of is: "with the consent of *all*
the stakeholders."
--
Peter Renzland .^.
David Simpson
If he is a man of honour then the obligation is still binding. I
resigned and have since lost belief in any sort of Supreme Being. I
still maintain that my obligation was a binding promise that I made to
myself and if I broke that promise then I have lost my honour.
jruble
He does not fertilize, he only tries to foster discontent. So, your likening
is not valid.
Even though the smell might be the same.
SCOTTY