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anti-mason ?

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b...@ns.asarian.org

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
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maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).
for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark
side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
simple, non-mason language.

just my 2 cents worth

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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RVancura

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
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>if the masons didn't hide
>themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers"

I'm a little confused. With so many indivual Masonic websites, personal pages
of Masons, Grand Lodge websites, and the like. what kind of information are you
looking for?

There is a site, http://masonicinfo.com/ that specifically addresses many
questions and concerns, please visit it and see some "simple, non-mason
language."

What would you like to know?

Rick

Richard Watson

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
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b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
>
> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).
> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark
> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
> simple, non-mason language.

There are no secret beliefs in Freemasonry. The basic Tenets of
Freemasonry have been stated again and again on this Newsgroup.

(Play it again, Eugene)

Sure we have some "secrets". Do you wrap presents for your loved ones.
Are they not "secrets" until they are unwrapped. Does not the wrapping
make the unwrapping so much more meaningful. So it is with Masonry. You
could go to the library and proabbly glean most, if not all, of what
happens during the rituals, but the real "secrets" are revealed in ones
heart as a new Mason achieves his acceptance by his new Brothers.

Use your common sense. Would severla notable and moral men continue in a
organization which had a "dark side". The list of famous Masons reads
like a Who's Who of the World.

(That one is #15 on the jukebox, Eugene)

You will find answers to most of your questions here, except for those
few concerning details that Masons have promised not to reveal.

ri...@my-dejanews.com

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
If you wish to ask honest questions, I will be glad to answer to the best of
my ability, honestly.

One of the problems that many people have when reading Masonic authors who
have written about Freemasonry is the language. Most Masonic authors write
for other Masons in language they know Freemasons understand. Sometimes, this
does lead to misunderstanding and mis-intrepretation by non-Masons. If you do
not understand something, as about it and tell what you do not understand. I
think you will find that honest questions get honest answers.

When you ask questions, also understand that there are a few things we do not
disclose to the public at large. Those things are the ritual of the Degrees
taught in Blue Lodge, the Passwords and grips of those three degrees. These
we keep for ourselves, mainly as a means to test those who claim to be Masons
if we do not know them. Even this is partly ineffective since ritual work
differs from jurisdiction to jurisdictin. For example: The ritual used in
the US is quite different from some rituals used in British Columbia, Canada
where four different rituals are used according to which Lodge you attend.
Honest questions about Freemasonry are encouraged. If you do not understand
the answer, say so. Someone will attempt to clarify it for you.


--
Richard Jackson, PM
Corrigan Masonic Lodge #1103 AF&AM
Corrigan, Texas


In article <6rs8tr$9ge$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,


b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).
> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark
> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
> simple, non-mason language.
>

eas...@redriverok.com

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
In article <6rs8tr$9ge$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).
> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark
> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
> simple, non-mason language.
>
> just my 2 cents worth
>

Well first fo all let me ask what is so secret? My lodge has a web page
(http://www.redriverok.com/mason/mason.htm) where all the officers are
listed. I personally have lodge emblems on the back of my van. Secondly what
questions would you like answered?

Chuck Easttom

Michael S. Jessop

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
Not to mention most fraternities have "secrets". Such as secret hand-
shakes and other methods of identification. Do fraternities worry you?
My wife belongs to ZTA (I think that is what it is) and she remembers
her secret handshake which would allow her to enter any closed meetings
of the organization -- meetings I would NOT be able to attend. Of course
I *have* often wondered if my wife and her sisters were planning on taking
over the planet. :) (sorry, couldn't resist).

b...@ns.asarian.org wrote in message <6rs8tr$9ge$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...


>maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide

[snip]

Eugene Goldman.·.

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
On 24 Aug 1998 18:30:47 GMT, Richard Watson <Richar...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

*There are no secret beliefs in Freemasonry. The basic Tenets of
*Freemasonry have been stated again and again on this Newsgroup.
*
*(Play it again, Eugene)

Ok, here it is, in plain nonMason language (whatever that is):
The teachings of Masonry (hardly secret, but that's all we have) are Brotherly
Love, Relief, Truth, Faith, Hope, Charity, Tolerance, Temprence, Fortitude,
Prudence and Justice.

Was that understandable to a nonMason?

*Use your common sense. Would severla notable and moral men continue in a
*organization which had a "dark side". The list of famous Masons reads
*like a Who's Who of the World.
*
*(That one is #15 on the jukebox, Eugene)

Ok, here are a *few* names you might recognise:
Many men whose names have been instrumental to the history and development of
our civilization
have been Freemasons. For your specific information, the following are but a
few of the many
famous historical figures that have engaged in our ceremonies.

EXPLORES: Hiram Bingham (Discoverer of Machu Picchu), James Bruce (Discoverer of
the source of the Blue Nile), Adm. Richard E. Byrd, Christopher "Kit" Carson,
William Clark, Merriwether Lewis, and Robert E. Peary.

WORLD LEADERS: Emilio Aguinaldo (Phillippine Patriot and General), Miguel
Aleman (Mexican President 1947-52), Eduard Benes (President of Czechoslovakia
1939-48), Sveinn Bjornsson (1st President of Iceland), Napoleon Bonaparte's
four brothers, King Charles XIII (King of Sweden 1748-1818), King Edward VII and
King Edward VIII (Kings of England, 1901-10 & 36, respectively), Francis I and
Francis II (Holy Roman Emperors, 1745-65 & 1768-1806), Frederick the Great (King
of Prussia 1740-86), George I & George II (Kings of Greece, 1845-1913 &
1922-47), George IV & George VI (Kings of England 1760-1820 & 1820-30), Gustavus
VI Adolphus (King of Sweden 1792-1809), Kamehemeha IV and Kemehemeha V (Kings of
Hawaii (1854-63 & 1863-72) Leopold I (King of the Belgians (1831-65)), Peter the
Great (Emperor of Russia 1689-1725), William I (King of Prussia 1861-88),
William II (King of the Netherlands (1792-1849), William IV (King of England
(1830-37) and many others.

UNITED STATES PRESIDENTS: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson,
James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley,
Theodore Roosevelt, William H. Taft, Warren G. Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt,
Harry S. Truman and Gerald Ford.

RELIGIOUS LEADERS: Bishop Carl J Sander (United Methodist Church), Rabbi
Seymour Atlas, Dr. James P. Wesberry (Former Exectuive director of the Southern
Baptist Publication Sunday), The Reverend George W. Truett (President of the
Southern Baptist Convention), The Reverend John A O'Brien, Ph.D. (Roman Catholic
Preist and professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame), Cardinal
Mariano Rampolla (Roman Catholic Cardinal), James C. Baker (Bishop, Methodist
Church, organized first Wesley Foundation in U.S.), Hosea Ballou (Founder,
Universalist Church), Robert E. B. Baylor (Baptist clergyman, founder of Baylor
University), Preston Bradley (founder of the Peoples Church), Father Francisco
Calvo (Catholic Priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica in 1865), Hugh I.
Evans (National head of the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A.), Most Reverend Geoffrey
F. Fisher (former Archbishop of Canterbury), Eugene M. Frank (Methodist Bishop),
Reverend Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (Methodist Episcopal minister and author)
Titus Low (President of Methodist Council of Bishops) Dr. Martin Luther King,
Jesse Jackson (Operation P.U.S.H. and AME Baptist Church) and many others.

UNITED STATES PATRIOTS: Francis Scott Key (wrote our National Anthem), Ralph
Bellamy (wrote our Pledge of Allegiance), Paul Revere, John Paul Jones, Benjamin
Franklin, John Hancock, Patrick Henry and many others.

MILITARY LEADERS: Generals John J. Pershing, George Marshall, Douglas
MacArthur, Joseph Stillwell, Johnathon Wainwright, Curtis E. LaMay, Omar N.
Bradley, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, Claire L. Chenault, Mark Clark, James Doolittle,
Admirals David G. Farragut (First Admiral of the U.S. Navy), Ernest J. King,
Richard Byrd and many others.

POLITICAL: Sir Winston Churchill, Randolph Churchill, Thomas Dewey, Everett
Dirksen, Fiorello H. LaGuardia, John Marshall, Barry Goldwater, Hubert Humphrey,
Bob Dole, Strom Thurmond, Thurgood Marshall and others.

SPORTS: Grover C. Alexander, Cy Young, Jack Dempsey, Arnold Palmer, Tyrus R.
"Ty" Cobb, Carl O. Hubbell, Christopher "Christy" Mathewson, Mordecai P.C.
Brown, Gordon "Mickey" Corchran, Avery Brundage, Albert "Happy" Chandler, Branch
Rickey, Knute Rockne and many others.

ENTERTAINMENT: Gene Autry, Ernest Borgnine, Michael Caine, Joe E. Brown, Bob
Burns, Eddie Cantor, Charles D. Coburn, William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody, Donald
Crisp, George M. Cohan, Cecil B. DeMille, Richard Dix, Walt Disney, Douglas
Fairbanks Sr., W.C. Fields, Clark Gable, Arthur Godfrey, David W. Griffith,
Harold, Lincoln Gray(Creator of Little Orphan Annie), Oliver Hardy, Jean
Hersholt, Harry Houdini, Bob Hope, Sir Henry Irving, Al Jolson, Charles "Buck"
Jones, Buster Keaton, Edmund Kean, Harry Kellar, Harold C. Lloyd, Elmo
Lincoln(first Tarzan 1918), Lois B. Mayer(Formed M.G.M. Studios), Tom Mix, Dick
Powell, Roy Rogers, Will Rogers, Peter Sellers, Charles S. "Tom Thumb" Stratton,
Richard B. "Red" Skelton, John Wayne, Jack Warner, Paul Whiteman, Ed Wynn,
Florenz Ziegfeld, Darryl Zanuck and many others.

COMPOSERS: Irving Berlin, George M. Cohan, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, John Phillip
Souza, Richard Wagner, Franz Joseph Haydn, Franz Listz, and many others.

INVENTORS AND SCIENTISTS: Samuel Colt (firearms), Sir Alexander Fleming
(penicillin), Edward Jenner (vaccination) Simon Lake (first practical
submarine), John L. McAdam (Macadamized roads) and many others.

YOUTH ORGANIZATION FOUNDERS: Daniel Carter Beard (Boy Scouts), Frank S. Land
(International Order of DeMolay), William Mark Sexton (International Order of
Rainbow for Girls)

WRITERS: Robert Burns, Samuel L. Clemens (Mark Twain), Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
(Sherlock Holmes), Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), Edgar
A. Guest, Rudyard Kipling, Alexander Pope, Sir Walter Scott, Johathan Swift,
Lowell Thomas, Voltair and many others.

SCULPTORS: Gutzon Borglum and his son, Lincoln Borglum (together carved Mt.
Rushmore National Memorial), Johann G. Schadow (Prussian Court Sculptor) J. Otto
Schweizer and many others.

BUSINESS: Dave Thomas (Wendy's), John Jacob Astor (financier), Lloyd Balfour
(Jewelry), Lawrence Bell (Bell Aircraft Corp.), William H. Dow (Dow
ChemicalCo.), Alfred Fuller (Fuller Brush), King C. Gillett (Gillett Razor Co.),
Sir Thomas Lipton (tea), Fredrick Maytag, Andrew W. Mellon (banker), James C.
Penny, George Pullman, David Sarnoff (father of T.V.), Leland Stanford
(railroads - Stanford Univ.) and many others.

ASTRONAUTS: Ed Aldrin, Gordon Cooper, Don Eisle, Virgil Grissom, Ed Michell, Tom
Stafford, Fred Haise, and Wally Shirra.

Further information concerning famous and historical Freemasons can be found in
Brother W.R. Denslow's book "Ten Thousand Famous Freemasons".


|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.


Eugene Goldman P.*. M.*.
W.M. Black Mountain Lodge, #845, San Diego, Ca.
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
p.m. Blackmer Lodge #442, San Diego, Ca.
Southern Ca. Research Lodge
A.A.S.R., Valley of San Diego

May Brotherly Love forever prevail,
and every moral and social Virtue cement us.

Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap!

Goldberg for President.
Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?
If you can read this, you have gone to far.
Objects in the window are more technical than they appear.
Please close cover before striking.
Void where prohibited by law.
Contents may have settled during shipment.

Ed King

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
In article <6rs8tr$9ge$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, blu wrote:

> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide

> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).
> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark
> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
> simple, non-mason language.
>
> just my 2 cents worth

Here's the problem - as I see it at least. Everybody arrives here for the first
time on a different day. Some folks have been here for a couple of years or
more (albeit in certain cases using a number of aliases) but others are brand
new. People tend to respond based on what they know and their experiences. In
many cases, those experiences are greatly shaped by events from the past here.

But as to using 'masonic language', I'd submit that it's like anywhere else.
Ever asked an plumber what he wants you to hand him and he says "The 5"
Spanner." or be told by a physician's office that you need to fill out a "Hicfa
fifteen hundred form." or remember what you were supposed to say the first time
someone in a restaurant asked you how you'd like your eggs done? If you're
American and go to the UK, what do you think of when they talk about the car's
boot? There's a peculiarity to language that causes idioms to come into play
whenever discussion occurs relative to a specific topic. I doubt that I'd be
able to understand Army Artillery officers talking about munitions nor
geologists talking about various rock formation ages. Does this mean they're
all keeping secrets? Of course not! It just means you might not fully
understand - AND that the writer may not have written a post which would be
concise for a person with whom he's posted for months yet understandable by
someone who knows not one thing about Freemasonry.

If you have a question about a word or phrase, ASK! You'll get an answer. In
the meantime, I'd invite you to visit my web site at http://www.masonicinfo.com
where I've tried to address matters in simple, understandable English which
requires NO prior experience with 'masonic nomenclature'.

Regards,
Ed


.

unread,
Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
>
> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).
> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark
> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
> simple, non-mason language.
>
> just my 2 cents worth
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

If you have a specific question abour Freemasonry, just post it or
ask me privately by e-mail. I promise an answer devoid of "secret
non-answers".
Kurt MM, SDeM, PMC

Lexmagus

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
> when we hear the "dark
>side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
>simple, non-mason language.

You just don't know the power of the dark-side. Give yourself over, blu, and
join us. We will rule the universe side by side. The Emporer has forseen it.
(sheesh)

Given the plethora of "cipher" materials and information on the new information
super-highway, it is a wonder that ANYONE actually still believes that Masonry
is a "secret" society. How about a non-Mason answer to all the idiotic
questions and responses regarding "secret societies" and conspiracy theories:
Freemasonry, it may surprise you to know, is more of a private civil society
than anything else. Freemasonry is anti-religious/political despotism and
supports free will and self determination. Because the world was not always
so, Masons had to take oaths to protect, literally, their lives, possessions
and families. Anecdotally, the amount of information that is allowed to be
perverted to deceive multitudes into believing in "Masonic Conspiracies" is
itself a testament that Freemasonry is no secret society.

For those who propogate these "theories", and those who eat it up so gullibly,
I quote for you the words of a great philosopher, "Blessed are the sleepy ones:
for they shall soon drop off." (Thus Spake Zarathustra, First Part, "On the
Teachers of Virtue". Nietzsche.)

Thus Spake Lex

Ed King

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
In article <6rt7s9$h31$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, hate wrote:

> > If you have a question about a word or phrase, ASK! You'll get an answer. In
> > the meantime, I'd invite you to visit my web site at http://www.masonicinfo.com
> > where I've tried to address matters in simple, understandable English which
> > requires NO prior experience with 'masonic nomenclature'.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ed
>

> In that case, Fuehrer King, maybe you will tell us the "word" that
> is whispered into the ear when two masons meet on the
> 5 points of fellowship. And what does that word mean?

Now what in the world does this have to do with the original post, hate?

If I asked you something you consider private, would you answer? Tell you
what: I know something you consider private so just as soon as you answer
that, I'll answer you. You know what it is, don't you? Using your methodology,
I've asked you about it 3,003 times before so now I'm asking you for the 3,004th
through 9,877th time: are you Ken Mitchell?

See? You have things that aren't really a secret because literally
everyone already knows but it's something you want to keep private.
More clear how this works now?

> I bet your "You'll get an answer." will be a "clinton" type
> answer....and we all know how he lies...but I will give
> you a chance to answer. Who knows, maybe
> you will answer this one honestly?
> (You will pardon me if I don't hold my breath in the meanwhile, yes?)

I really do wish you'd hold your breath!!! PLEASE!!!!

And let me quickly ask for the 30th time: have you ever posted using the
identity subnomore? No personal information here and your answer would show
you to be so much better than the Masons you think are so bad!

Ed
http://www.masonicinfo.com


Ed King

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
In article <bQpE1.149$ey4.3...@ptah.visi.com>, J. Otto Tennant cogently wrote:

> It occurs to me that the problem is sometimes compounded by the
> electronic medium we use.
>
> I have been a Master Mason for eight years (more or less), and I had to
> *ask* why so many messages were signed "POTS". While I'm not in the
> telephone business, I am interested, and I couldn't see past the common
> meaning of POTS: Plain Old Telephone Service.
>
> (For the non-masons, POTS in this context refers to "Parting On The
> Square" and alludes to part of the ritual of closing a meeting.)

You're right indeed - and it's true that the online world develops its
own mystery as well.

S&F is Sincerely & Fraternally but surely there are some who've never
seen that. And you know - I know <smile> - about the BFG acronym which
doesn't mean what hate and his friends might thing but rather stands
for Big *Fraternal* Grin.

Point well taken, Brother!

Best,
Ed


Tom Krummell (E. Scrooge, Esq.)

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Aug 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/24/98
to
Taken with muffets and crumpkins, eh?

tk
===========================

Richard Watson wrote:
>
> Gene Goldman wrote:
> >
> > And "Blessed are the cheese makers."
> >
>
> For they shall show us the whey?

--
- The mockingbird can change its tune eighty-seven times in seven
minutes. Politicians regard this interesting fact with envy.

J. Otto Tennant

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
b...@ns.asarian.org writes:

>maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
>themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
>using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by non-masons).

I don't understand. While I seldom reply to contentious posts, when I
do I use plain English. I'm not certain what "masonic language" might
be.

Of course, there are a few questions to which I will decline to reply,
but there are not many of them.

> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the "dark


>side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
>simple, non-mason language.

I think my mind just got boggled. I need examples of "simple, non-mason
language."
--
J.Otto Tennant jo...@pobox.com
Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit.
Charter Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

J. Otto Tennant

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
Ed King <edk...@mint.net> writes:

[... much snipped ...]

>But as to using 'masonic language', I'd submit that it's like anywhere else.

It occurs to me that the problem is sometimes compounded by the
electronic medium we use.

I have been a Master Mason for eight years (more or less), and I had to
*ask* why so many messages were signed "POTS". While I'm not in the
telephone business, I am interested, and I couldn't see past the common
meaning of POTS: Plain Old Telephone Service.

(For the non-masons, POTS in this context refers to "Parting On The
Square" and alludes to part of the ritual of closing a meeting.)

Gene Goldman

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
On 24 Aug 1998 22:05:00 GMT, lexm...@aol.com (Lexmagus) wrote:


*For those who propogate these "theories", and those who eat it up so
gullibly,
*I quote for you the words of a great philosopher, "Blessed are the
sleepy ones:
*for they shall soon drop off." (Thus Spake Zarathustra, First Part,
"On the
*Teachers of Virtue". Nietzsche.)

And "Blessed are the cheese makers."

Be well. Travel with a light heart.

Y.I.S.
In Waimachtendink

Gene Goldman

Blackmer Lodge #442, San Diego, Ca. (p.*. m.*.)
Black Mountain Masonic Lodge, #845 (W.*. M.*.)


Southern Ca. Research Lodge
A.A.S.R., Valley of San Diego

Can you imagine a world without hypothetical situations?

I can be found on ICQ
-- There are a few Masons
using ICQ as an effective communication tool!
Join us!

If you can read this, you have gone too far!

AUBREY BROWN SR

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
To some degree, you may have a point. But that point could not be leveled
against the craft at large. Masonry is well known and ALL of its doings,
principles, so forth are out there for all to see. The problem may pop up
when you find an individual Mason that is not aware of the way to inform or
even represent Masonry in the proper way. This has to do with lack of
adequate education and the degree of which is greatly left to the individual
Mason. EVERYTHING in Masonry is done by one's free will and accord. Some
have not seen the need to look farther in their quest for Masonic logic. In
an event where I were talking to a Mason and he was replying above my head,
I would inform him and ask him to speak in common language and ask him if he
didn't know an answer, perhaps he could refer me to one who might. Anything
as large as the superstructure of Masonry will have many different types of
people with different levels of ability to answer questions. The hope is
when one is confronted with something he can not answer, he will refer a
person to a more knowledgeable source.

Aubrey

b...@ns.asarian.org wrote in message <6rs8tr$9ge$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
>themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such as
>using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by
non-masons).

> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the
"dark
>side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the same,
>simple, non-mason language.
>

AUBREY BROWN SR

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to

Richard Watson wrote in message <35E1B1...@worldnet.att.net>...

>b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
>>
>> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
>> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such
as
>> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by
non-masons).
>> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the
"dark
>> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the
same,
>> simple, non-mason language.
>
>There are no secret beliefs in Freemasonry. The basic Tenets of
>Freemasonry have been stated again and again on this Newsgroup.
>
>(Play it again, Eugene)
>
>Sure we have some "secrets". Do you wrap presents for your loved ones.
>Are they not "secrets" until they are unwrapped. Does not the wrapping
>make the unwrapping so much more meaningful. So it is with Masonry.

Thanks Rich!
Now you've made it all a dirty experience for me. ( I cheat buy pulling off
a little bity piece of paper so I can see what the present is). Now I
will never be able to sneak a peak again! Party Pooper!

Aubrey

P. S.
I am going to respond to your previous post via email in the very near
future.

AUBREY BROWN SR

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
Gene,

You forgot to mention Avengers in your list of notable Freemasons!

Aubrey


AUBREY BROWN SR

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to

Michael S. Jessop wrote in message <6rscma$e...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...

>Not to mention most fraternities have "secrets". Such as secret hand-
>shakes and other methods of identification. Do fraternities worry you?
>My wife belongs to ZTA (I think that is what it is) and she remembers
>her secret handshake which would allow her to enter any closed meetings
>of the organization -- meetings I would NOT be able to attend. Of course
>I *have* often wondered if my wife and her sisters were planning on taking
>over the planet. :) (sorry, couldn't resist).
>

Mike,

I have this little bitty bugging device you can slip on her dress and hear
EVERYTHING!

Aubrey

>b...@ns.asarian.org wrote in message <6rs8tr$9ge$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>>maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide

>[snip]
>
>

AUBREY BROWN SR

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to

hate_w...@earthling.net wrote in message
<6rt7k4$gou$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>In article <35E1C6...@worldnet.att.net>,
> "." <KA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>> b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
>> >
I promise an answer devoid of "secret
>> non-answers".
>> Kurt MM, SDeM, PMC
>
>
>In that case Kurt/Alex, a specific question about freemasonry:
>
>What is the word whispered from one mason's ear
>to another mason's ear when they meet
>toe to toe, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back,
>and mouth to ear (or what ever variation of such that your
>group uses)?
>That is a specific question "abour" freemasonry.
>Now we will see if you will answer honestly or break your promise.
>
>
He already did!

Aubrey

Floyd Dennis

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:

>>I'm a little confused. With so many indivual Masonic websites, personal
>>pages
>>of Masons, Grand Lodge websites, and the like. what kind of information are
>>you
>>looking for?
>>
>

>Well give us the passwords for the first three degrees in masonry if there are
>no secrets. Or how about how much money your lodge has? Come on now, this is
>some info you can share. Explain for us the due guard for the master mason.
>Masons like to say the monitors do not contain all the rituals, so tell us what
>is left out.

No. :>

> Just for starters since you volenterd to tell us some info!

Is your command of the English language usually this inept? Re-read
the text you quoted - and this time, read it V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y. Now
tell us - what part of Rick's question constitutes "volunteering"?

>HAHAHAHAHAAHAH

*This* is interesting. I thought kuru could only be found in New
Guinea these days. My condolences to you and your family.


Floyd Dennis, Jr.
Sam Davis Lodge #661 F.&A.M., Smyrna, Tennessee
http://sam_davis.home.mindspring.com/
32° AASR, S.J. USA, Valley of Nashville, Orient of TN
fbde...@mindspring.com

Richard Watson

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
AUBREY BROWN SR wrote:
>
> Richard Watson wrote in message <35E1B1...@worldnet.att.net>...
> >b...@ns.asarian.org wrote:
> >>
> >> maybe more people would not be anti-mason if the masons didn't hide
> >> themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers" (such
> as
> >> using masonic language to answer questions concerning masonry by
> non-masons).
> >> for a lot of us non-masons, it makes us very uneasy. when we hear the
> "dark
> >> side of masonry" stuff, we have nothing to go look at that offers the
> same,
> >> simple, non-mason language.
> >
> >There are no secret beliefs in Freemasonry. The basic Tenets of
> >Freemasonry have been stated again and again on this Newsgroup.
> >
> >(Play it again, Eugene)
> >
> >Sure we have some "secrets". Do you wrap presents for your loved ones.
> >Are they not "secrets" until they are unwrapped. Does not the wrapping
> >make the unwrapping so much more meaningful. So it is with Masonry.
>
> Thanks Rich!
> Now you've made it all a dirty experience for me. ( I cheat buy pulling off
> a little bity piece of paper so I can see what the present is). Now I
> will never be able to sneak a peak again! Party Pooper!
>
> Aubrey
>
> P. S.
> I am going to respond to your previous post via email in the very near
> future.

Never fear, Aubrey. I'll soon be an age when I can wrap my own presents
and unwrap them the next day with legitimate surprise.

Rich

Richard Watson

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
Gene Goldman wrote:
>
> And "Blessed are the cheese makers."
>

For they shall show us the whey?

eas...@redriverok.com

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
In article <199808250351...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,

true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:
> >I'm a little confused. With so many indivual Masonic websites, personal
> >pages
> >of Masons, Grand Lodge websites, and the like. what kind of information are
> >you
> >looking for?
> >
>
> Well give us the passwords for the first three degrees in masonry if there are
> no secrets. Or how about how much money your lodge has? Come on now, this is
> some info you can share. Explain for us the due guard for the master mason.
> Masons like to say the monitors do not contain all the rituals, so tell us
what
> is left out. Just for starters since you volenterd to tell us some info!
> HAHAHAHAHAAHAH
>

What group would ever do the things you asked?? What college fraternity would
publish their passwords?? Do you have exact monatary figures for all the
churches in your town? You are asking masonry to publish things that no
organization publishes. And you are sinking into some type of mental
aberation again ending all your messages with "hahahahahah".

Chuck Easttom

eas...@redriverok.com

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
In article <199808250402...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:
> What a list of occultists! And you proud of them?? Well I guess so, how about
> nameing all the witches, worlocks, satatnists, luciferians, and other God
> haters??? You just named some, how about the rest??????
>

Perhaps you should stop lying: Kadafie, Arafat,Stalin, Levey, and Dalmar are
not and never have been masons. Kadafie and Stalin where in fact staunch
anti masons (as was hitler and the ayotollah). Please give the names of ANY
masons on Death Row or in prison for child molestations. Please list even one
lodge in a Prison . That would be odd since being convicted of a felony
means an automatic expulsion from the lodge.

But I have come to realize that you really enjoy lying.

Chuck Easttom

> Kadifie
> Arafat
> Hall
> Pike
> Hitler
> Stalin
> Joe Smith
> Alester Crowley
> Anton Levey
> Timothy Levy
> Jeffery Dallmer
> And a host of masons on death row, in prison for sexual child abuse, the ones
> who are on the run from child support. The fastest growing lodges in america,
> ARE IN PRISONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> American Freemason PG. 5 Northern Jurisdition, Vol.3 1997

ri...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
True,

You will notice in my reply to this post I never claimed that Masonry did not
have any secrets. I have always maintained that we do not tell the outside
world the ritual work of the three degrees in Masonry taught in the Masonic
Lodge, nor the grips and words for each degree. If you wish to ask of other
things, I or my brothers will answer. The above things we do not discuss with
the uninitiated.

In order to have aBrother talk to you about those things you wish, you have to
earn the right. You have not done so.

Perhaps you would like to share some things with us. Say the number of your
checking and savings account, how much undeclared income you had last year and
your social security number. If you have no secrets, why not post these
things for the world to see?

Besides. Where in the WORD does it say that it is wrong to have secrets?
Verse and text please.

--
Richard Jackson, PM
Corrigan Masonic Lodge #1103 AF&AM
Corrigan, Texas

"It is easy enough to be friendly to one's friends. But to befriend the one
who regards himself as your enemy is the quintessense of true religion. The
other is just mere business." Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)

In article <199808250351...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:
> >I'm a little confused. With so many indivual Masonic websites, personal
> >pages
> >of Masons, Grand Lodge websites, and the like. what kind of information are
> >you
> >looking for?
> >
>
> Well give us the passwords for the first three degrees in masonry if there are
> no secrets. Or how about how much money your lodge has? Come on now, this is
> some info you can share. Explain for us the due guard for the master mason.
> Masons like to say the monitors do not contain all the rituals, so tell us
what
> is left out. Just for starters since you volenterd to tell us some info!
> HAHAHAHAHAAHAH
>

Michael Higgins

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
Even allowing for the poor spelling, this list is little more than a pointless and
evil libel against freemasonry.

The truth is not in you, True.

TrueGspl wrote:

> What a list of occultists! And you proud of them?? Well I guess so, how about
> nameing all the witches, worlocks, satatnists, luciferians, and other God
> haters??? You just named some, how about the rest??????
>

RedRopers

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
<HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: anti-mason ?
From: hate_w...@earthling.net

What is the word whispered from one mason's ear to another mason's ear when
they meet toe to toe, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back, and mouth
to ear (or what ever variation of such that your group uses)?

"Check your fly" ?

Jana

Floyd Dennis

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:

>What a list of occultists! And you proud of them??

Proud of people like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Harry S
Truman, "Buzz" Aldrin and Virgil Grissom? You bet your sweet bippy I
am. :>

>Well I guess so, how about
>nameing all the witches, worlocks, satatnists, luciferians, and other God
>haters???

If you want to discuss "witches, worlocks, satanists, luciferians, and
other God haters", go start another NG. This is alt.freemasonry, and
as such exists for the discussion of Freemasonry - which has no causal
relationship with this line noise.

>You just named some, how about the rest??????

For the lurkers out there - let's take a closer look at TrueGspl's
list and see just how much applicability it has to Masonry, shall we?

>
>Kadifie

Never been a Mason.

>Arafat

Never been a Mason.

>Hall

I assume you are referring to Manly Hall. Are you referring to his
writings *before* he became a Mason?

>Pike

Was labelled a worshipper of Lucifer years after his death in a hoax
which was later publicly exposed by the perpetuator (frequently
referred to in this NG as the "Leo Taxil hoax"). A detailed
discussion of the hoax may be found at
http://www.chrysalis.org/masonry/stb_0693.htm . Is this the best you
can do, TrueGspl - repeat lies about a dead man?

>Hitler
>Stalin

Neither were Masons - in fact, both pursued an active anti-Masonic
agenda aimed at eradicating Freemasonry. A couple of your heroes,
TrueGspl? After all, your anti-Masonic agenda seems to be in line
with theirs....

>Joe Smith

While I do not personally subscribe to the Mormon system of belief, I
fail to see how you justifiably label Joseph Smith as a 'God hater'.
Is it because his beliefs are different than yours?

>Alester Crowley

Depends upon what you define as Masonry. Crowley claimed in his
'Confessions...' that in 1904 he had been raised in Anglo-Saxon Lodge
No. 343 in Paris. Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343 is a Grand Orient Lodge,
and as such is considered 'irregular' - i.e., members of this Lodge
are not considered Masons by the body of regular Masonry.

(BTW - that's "Aleister")

>Anton Levey

That's Lavey, and he was never a Mason.

>Timothy Levy

Who??? Are you perchance referring to Timothy McVeigh? If so, he was
never a Mason - he was an anti-Mason, as a matter of fact. Good
company you're keeping there, TrueGspl!

>Jeffery Dallmer

That's Dahmer, and he was never a Mason.

>And a host of masons on death row, in prison for sexual child abuse, the ones
>who are on the run from child support. The fastest growing lodges in america,
>ARE IN PRISONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prove your claim.

Eugene Goldman.·.

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
On 25 Aug 1998 03:31:10 GMT, "AUBREY BROWN SR" <Aubrey...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

*Gene,
*
*You forgot to mention Avengers in your list of notable Freemasons!

Oh, I didn't forget. I only post the ones I know or have reason to believe are
Masons. That alone leaves him out. Added to that is the consideration that I
listed names that are known to people outside this newsgroup, which, once again,
leaves out our insignificant, confused, little resident nazi.

Eugene Goldman.·.

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
On 25 Aug 1998 04:02:10 GMT, true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:

*What a list of occultists!

Occultists? <ROFL>
Bishop Carl J Sander (United Methodist Church), an "occultist"?
The Reverend George W. Truett (President of the Southern Baptist Convention),an
"occultist"?


The Reverend John A O'Brien, Ph.D. (Roman Catholic Preist and professor of

theology at the University of Notre Dame), an "occultist"?
Cardinal Mariano Rampolla (Roman Catholic Cardinal), an "occultist"?


Father Francisco Calvo (Catholic Priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica in

1865), an "occultist"?
Reverend Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (Methodist Episcopal minister and author), an
"occultist"?
Titus Low (President of Methodist Council of Bishops), an "occultist"?
Dr. Martin Luther King, an "occultist"?
Jesse Jackson (Operation P.U.S.H. and AME Baptist Church), an "occultist"?

What a strange use of the word "occultist".

*And you proud of them??

You bet.

*Well I guess so, how about nameing all the witches, worlocks, satatnists,
*luciferians, and other God haters???

Aside from many of the antis who post here, I don't know of any.


However, here are a few names from your "side of the tracks":
Men who have been most vocal in their opposition to the fraternity of
Freemasonry:
Pat Robertson, Rev Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Adolf Hitler, Tomas de
Torquemada, Josef Stalin, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Ruhollah
Khomeini, and Moammar Khaddafi

Interesting comparison, isn't it?

Raybert

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
rvancura writes:

>>if the masons didn't hide
>>themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers"
>

>I'm a little confused. With so many indivual Masonic websites, personal
>pages
>of Masons, Grand Lodge websites, and the like. what kind of information are
>you
>looking for?
>

That's just masonic propoganda! There is nothing about esoteric masonry or the
true secrets of masonry on these websites.


Never trust anyone that belongs to a Secret Society!!!

Raybert

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
hypnosis writes:

>Oh, I didn't forget. I only post the ones I know or have reason to believe
>are
>Masons. That alone leaves him out. Added to that is the consideration that I
>listed names that are known to people outside this newsgroup, which, once
>again,
>leaves out our insignificant, confused, little resident nazi

If you notice, this is the kind of response that is posted 99% of the time from
masons. And they are such good people! LOL!

Raybert

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
hypnosis writes:

>Ok, here it is, in plain nonMason language (whatever that is):
>The teachings of Masonry (hardly secret, but that's all we have) are
>Brotherly
>Love, Relief, Truth, Faith, Hope, Charity, Tolerance, Temprence, Fortitude,
>Prudence and Justice.

This is just the propoganda and the teachings of exoteric masonry. But if you
do some research and read what their own masonic authors write, then you will
realize that. You will learn that there is a hidden, secret meaning to
everything about masonry.

Raybert

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to
xeonn writes:

>Considering your posts paint you as a contemptible Mason baiting twit
>I seriously doubt that anyone really cares what you or your ilk thinks
>if you think at all.
>
>The facts appear to be that you are a pathetic person who has no life
>of your own and must come begging to a newsgroup that you can not
>understand the subject of and certainly could never be a member of the
>organization discussed and plead for attention. Were it not for
>compassion and pity I doubt you would receive so much as a single
>response to your twitisms.
>

This is what being a mason is all about! LOL!

JEC

unread,
Aug 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/25/98
to

Floyd Dennis wrote in message <35e2b41a...@news.mindspring.com>...
>true...@aol.com (TrueGspl) wrote:


>>And a host of masons on death row, in prison for sexual child abuse, the
ones
>>who are on the run from child support. The fastest growing lodges in
america,
>>ARE IN PRISONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Prove your claim.
>
>
>
>Floyd Dennis, Jr.
>Sam Davis Lodge #661 F.&A.M., Smyrna, Tennessee
>http://sam_davis.home.mindspring.com/
>32° AASR, S.J. USA, Valley of Nashville, Orient of TN
>fbde...@mindspring.com

Bro. Dennis,

I wish he could prove that he could SPELL!!!

J.E. Carroll
Jefferson #38
Lothrop #21
GLoTexas

ba...@neo.lrun.com

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
In article <199808252319...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ray...@aol.com (Raybert) wrote:
You will learn that there is a hidden, secret meaning to
>everything about masonry.

Curious here again...what is the secret meaning to Masonry? I ust have missed
that part. And again, if it's so secret, how come you know about it?

Steven

Raybert

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
bands writes again:

From that statement, you must be a mason. So tell me, have you just gone
through the rituals and had a few drinks with the boys or have you ever done
any real research into the cult you belong too?

ri...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
Raybert,

You are so right! As we speak, our secret agents are infiltrating your house
just the way they have Avengers in Britian! When you hear a strange sound in
the night....You guessed it, another bug has been planted. Your telephone
lines are tapped and laser sensors are focused on every window of your house
so we can keep track of your every sound. Tiny little video cameras are
secreted in every nook and cranny so we know your most intimate moments (short
though they are). Fly-bys ten times a day by spy planes keep track of your
daytime activities and at night silenced black "Sky Cranes" of te La. Air
National Guard watch you with infared cameras. Tens of thousands of us are
losing sleep every night wondering what youare going to do next. We can't
wait for the next article you post under what ever nick you choose for the
day.

Richard Jackson, PM
Corrigan Masonic Lodge #1103 AF&AM
Corrigan, Texas

In article <199808252312...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,


ray...@aol.com (Raybert) wrote:
> rvancura writes:
>
> >>if the masons didn't hide
> >>themselves and their beliefs in so much secrecy and "non-answers"
> >
> >I'm a little confused. With so many indivual Masonic websites, personal
> >pages
> >of Masons, Grand Lodge websites, and the like. what kind of information are
> >you
> >looking for?
> >
>
> That's just masonic propoganda! There is nothing about esoteric masonry or
the
> true secrets of masonry on these websites.
>

> Never trust anyone that belongs to a Secret Society!!!
>

Angelina

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
It is NOT -as you call it "A SECRET SOCIETY" there is nothing secret about
it as you will see if you visit a library (you do know what a library is
dont you?)


Paul Powell

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
It is very obvious that you have focused your "research" via the internet
newsgroups, you have a very distorted view point - have you ever spoken to
anyone who has benefited from the works freemasons do ? if not do so


eas...@redriverok.com

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
> hypnosis writes:
>
> >Ok, here it is, in plain nonMason language (whatever that is):
> >The teachings of Masonry (hardly secret, but that's all we have) are
> >Brotherly
> >Love, Relief, Truth, Faith, Hope, Charity, Tolerance, Temprence, Fortitude,
> >Prudence and Justice.
>
> This is just the propoganda and the teachings of exoteric masonry. But if you
> do some research and read what their own masonic authors write, then you will
> realize that. You will learn that there is a hidden, secret meaning to
> everything about masonry.


No that is exactly what masonry teaches every single mason.

RedRopers

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
Subject: Re: anti-mason ?
From: ba...@neo.lrun.com

Curious here again...what is the secret meaning to Masonry? I ust have missed
that part. And again, if it's so secret, how come you know about it?

Steven,

See what happens when you sleep through meetings?You miss all the good stuff.
LOL!!

Jana

RedRopers

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
Subject: Re: anti-mason ?
From: hate_w...@earthling.net

No I wouldn't think so. It would be more like "Can I check your fly?", or was
I not supposed to reveal that part of the ritual?

Now why would you want to be checking their fly? Aren't you the same guy who
sits at home while you're wife works? Have you got something "in the closet"
she should know about?

Jana

Raybert

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
richj writes:

Great post. This is called masonic circumspection! LOL! What does this have
to do with the esoteric meanings of masonry? Make light of it in an attempt to
belittle. Masonry takes good men and makes them better! LOL!

Eugene Goldman.·.

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98
to
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:23:54 GMT, eas...@redriverok.com wrote:

*>Brotherly Love, Relief, Truth, Faith, Hope, Charity, Tolerance, Temprence,
*>Fortitude, Prudence and Justice.

*No that is exactly what masonry teaches every single mason.

And exactly what the antis hate so much about us. I often wonder, but have
never been able to discover, what they dislike so much about the fraternity
teaching these virtues.

RVancura

unread,
Aug 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM8/26/98