WHY I LEFT FREEMASONRY
Jack Hickey
<Jus...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Why I Left Freemasonry
>By Charles G. Finney, D.D.
Can't find anything from THIS century, Willie?
Jack Hickey, MM
Senior Deacon (Junior Warden-Elect)
Chairman, Masonic Awareness Committee
Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA
www.masslodges.org
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
William
Why I Left Freemasonry
By Charles G. Finney, D.D.
When I was converted to Christ I had belonged to the Masonic Lodge in
Adams, New York, about four years. During the struggle of conviction of
sin through which I passed, I do not recollect that the question of
Freemasonry ever occurred to my mind.
New Views of Lodgism
But soon after my conversion, the evening came for attendance upon the
Lodge, and I went. They, of course, were aware that I had become a
Christian and the Master called upon me to open the Lodge with prayer. I
did so, and poured out my heart to the Lord for blessings upon the
Lodge. I observed that it created considerable excitement. The evening
passed away, and at the close of the Lodge I was asked to pray again. I
did so, and retired much depressed in spirit. I soon found that I was
completely converted from Freemasonry to Christ, and that I could have
no fellowship with any of the proceedings of the Lodge. Its oaths
appeared to me to be monstrously profane and barbarous.
At that time I did not know how much I had been imposed upon by many of
the pretensions of Masonry. But, upon reflection and examination, a
severe struggle and earnest prayer, I found I could not consistently
remain with them. My new life instinctively and irresistibly recoiled
from any fellowship with what I now regarded as "the unfruitful works of
darkness."
Quietly Withdrawing Membership
Without consulting anyone, I finally went to the Lodge and requested my
discharge. My mind was made up. Withdraw from them I must -- with their
consent if I might; without this consent if I must. Of this I said
nothing; but somehow it came to be known that I had withdrawn.
They therefore planned a Masonic festival and sent a committee to me,
requesting me to deliver an oration on that occasion. I quietly declined
to do so, informing the committee that I could not conscientiously, in
any wise, do what would show my approval of the institution, or sympathy
with it. However, for the time, and for years afterward I remained
silent, and said nothing against Masonry; though I had then so well
considered the matter as to regard my Masonic oaths as utterly null and
void. But from that time I never allowed myself to be recognized as a
Freemason anywhere.
Beginning a Public Testimony
This was a few years before the revelations of Freemasonry by Captain
William Morgan were published. When that book was published, I was asked
if it was a true revelation of Freemasonry. I replied that it was so far
as I knew anything about it, and that as nearly as I could recollect, it
was a verbatim revelation of the first three degrees as I had myself
taken them. I frankly acknowledged that that which had been published
was a true account of the institution, and a true exposé of their oaths,
principles and proceedings. After I had considered it more thoroughly, I
was more perfectly convinced that I had no right to adhere to the
institution, or appear to do so; and that I was bound, whenever the
occasion came, to speak my mind freely in regard to it, and to renounce
the horrid oaths that I had taken.
Masonic Oaths Procured by Fraud
I found that in taking these oaths I had been grossly deceived and
imposed upon. I had been led to suppose that there were some very
important secrets to be communicated to me; but in this I found myself
entirely disappointed. Indeed I came to the deliberate conclusion that
my oaths had been procured by fraud and misrepresentations; that the
institution was in no respect what I had been informed it was; and as I
have had the means of examining it more thoroughly, it has become more
and more irresistibly plain to me that Masonry is highly dangerous to
the State, and in every way injurious to the Church of Christ.
Features of an Anti-Christ
Judging from unquestionable evidences, how can we fail to pronounce
Freemasonry an unchristian institution? We can see that its morality is
unchristian. Its oath-bound secrecy is unchristian. The administration
and taking of its oaths are unchristian and a violation of the positive
command of Christ. And Masonic oaths pledge its members to some of the
most unlawful and unchristian things:
1. To conceal each other's crimes.
2. To deliver each other from difficulty, whether right or wrong.
3. To unduly favour Masonry in political action and in business matters.
4. Its members are sworn to retaliate and persecute unto death the
violators of Masonic obligations.
5. Freemasonry knows no mercy, and swears its candidates to avenge
violations of Masonic obligations unto death.
6. Its oaths are profane, taking the Name of God in vain.
7. The penalties of these oaths are barbarous, even savage.
8. Its teachings are false and profane.
9. Its designs are partial and selfish.
10. Its ceremonies are a mixture of puerility and profanity.
11. Its religion is false.
12. It professes to save men on other conditions than those revealed in
the Gospel of Christ.
13. It is wholly an enormous falsehood.
14. It is a swindle, obtaining money from its members under false
pretenses.
15. It refuses all examinations, and veils itself under a mantle of
oath-bound secrecy.
16. It is virtual conspiracy against both Church and State.
Some Fair Conclusions
No one, therefore, has ever undertaken to defend Freemasonry as judged
by the above. Freemasons themselves do not pretend that their
institution as revealed in reliable books, and by some of their own
testimony, is compatible with Christianity. So it must follow that,
First, the Christian Church should have no fellowship with Freemasonry;
and those who adhere intelligently and determinately to such an
institution have no right to be in the Christian Church. We pronounce
this judgment sorrowfully, but solemnly.
Second, should the question be asked, "What shall be done with the great
number of professed Christians who are Freemasons?" I answer, let them
have nothing more to do with it. Let it be distinctly pressed upon their
consciences that all Masons, above the first two Degrees, have solemnly
sworn to conceal each other's crimes, murder and treason alone excepted;
and that all above the sixth Degree have sworn to espouse each other's
cause, and to deliver them from any difficulty, whether right or wrong.
Third, if they have taken those Degrees where they have sworn to
persecute unto death those who violate their Masonic obligations, let
them be asked whether they really intend to do any such thing. Let them
be distinctly asked whether they intend to aid and abet the
administration and taking of these oaths. Or if they still intend to
countenance the false and hypocritical teachings of Masonry. Or if they
mean to countenance the profanity of their ceremonies, and the
partiality of their sworn practice. If so, surely they should not be
allowed their place in the Christian Church.
Fourth, can a man who has taken, and still adheres to the Master's oath
to conceal any secret crime of a brother of that Degree, murder and
treason excepted, be a safe man with whom to entrust any public office?
Can he be trusted as a witness, as a juror, or with any office connected
with the administration of justice?
Fifth, can a man who has taken, and still adheres to, the oath of the
Royal Arch Mason be trusted to public office? He swears to espouse the
cause of a companion of this Degree when involved in any difficulty, so
far as to extricate him, whether he be right or wrong. He swears to
conceal his crimes, MURDER AND TREASON NOT EXCEPTED. Is such a man bound
by such an oath to be trusted with office? Ought he to be accepted as a
witness or juror when another Freemason is a party in the case? Ought he
to be trusted with the office of Judge, or Justice of the Peace, or as a
Sheriff, Constable, Marshal or any other office?
What Is Your Answer?
I appeal to your conscience in the sight of God, for an honest answer to
these three questions:
1. Is any man who is under a most solemn oath to kill all who violate
any part of Masonic oaths, a fit person to be at large among men?
2. Ought Freemasons of this stamp to be fellowshipped in the Christian
Church?
3. Do you believe that the sins of Masonic oaths are forgiven only to
those who repent? And that we do not repent of those sins to which we
still adhere? And that adherence makes us also partaker of other men's
sins?
"The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from ALL sin." "And
every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is
pure" (I John 1:17; 3:3).
(Reprinted from "Memoirs" of President Finney, formerly of Oberlin
College.)
Copied from a tract published by National Christian Association --
publishers since 1868 of literature exposing secret societies.
--
William
Peter Pedrotti
<Jus...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[
[Why I Left Freemasonry
[By Charles G. Finney, D.D.
<snip>
Now this is a job for Prozac.
Ted Berry
If a man's beliefs change after his membership in a Masonic Lodge in
such a fashion that he feels that the Fraternity is incompatible with
his beliefs, he is honor-bound to leave. I respect that decision. To
throw allegations on the Fraternity afterwards however is not
respectable.
--
Ted Berry 32' PSD
Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Keep the Faith
Well said. For as much as it is possible, a Christian
should never take an oath.
It's no wonder that Freemasonry needs to keep its
false beliefs secret from the world. In an honest system,
Beliefs and Oaths should always be available to people
beforehand so they know what they are getting into.
You are certainly free to expose the falsehoods of
Freemasonry. It is no different than any other errant
fraternity or club in this regard. If members issue a
veiled threat, then you should go to the police and/or
FBI and post the threat all over the Internet.
Keep the Faith
William <Jus...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:99pROAA7...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk...
Kansan1225
>On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:03:23 +0100, William
><Jus...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Why I Left Freemasonry
>>By Charles G. Finney, D.D.
>
>Can't find anything from THIS century, Willie?
>
Jack, do you mean to say that the Masonic lies of the 20th century are
different from the Masonic lies of the 19th century?
Jack Hickey
>>Can't find anything from THIS century, Willie?
> Jack, do you mean to say that the Masonic lies of the 20th century are
>different from the Masonic lies of the 19th century?
Hey there, Kansan --
Let's take a totally hypothetical situation. Let's assume that (for
example) it could be proved, completely and beyond any doubt, that
everything that you anti-Masons have written and charged and
speculated about the William Morgan affair were the absolute truth.
It's kind of a stretch, I know, but hang with me for a minute.
If you could prove (by solid fact, now, not by numerology or phases of
the Moon or non-existent newspaper stories) that the Morgan affair, as
related by anti-Masons, were the truth, it could not possibly make any
difference, for the following reasons:
first, we do not claim, we cannot claim, that every Freemason is a
"good" man; there have been many who should have never been accepted
in the first place, but sometimes they slip by. I know of an
individual who was recently suspended from his lodge who, it seems,
will be a long-term guest of one of the state's stone hotels. You
will understand, I hope, that I will not give details.
second, ONE incident in almost three hundred years is not an
indictment, it is a testimony. Consider the hundreds of thousands
(or - worldwide - millions) of men who have been Masons, and place
them on one side of the scale, and the three men who were charged with
murdering Captain Morgan on the other. Do the math. I can live
with the ratio.
third, organizations DO change over the course of years. The Catholic
Church that I grew up in bears darned little resemblance to today. I
simply do not know what Masonry was like in Doctor Finney's lodge,
during the time he was a member, but I DO know what it is like here
and now. From what I know of Masonic practices NOW, Doctor Finney
sounds like a liar, as well as forsworn of a solemn obligation made,
before God, with his hands on a Bible.
Is Finney, in his essay, a liar? I have no idea. I simply do not
know what happened in his lodge, one hundred and fifty years ago, nor
do I care. The present and the future are important to me; what is
past is prologue.
This was the proximate cause of my question to Wonderful Willie:
Can't you find anything in THIS century to complain about? I mean,
even a rehash of the tired old P-2 scandal is preferable to listening
AGAIN and AGAIN to the speculations about what happened to Morgan, or
listening to Doctor Finney exult and congratulate himself on breaking
his solemn obligation.
What else have you got?
Jack Hickey, MM
Senior Deacon (Junior Warden-Elect)
Chairman, Masonic Awareness Committee
Isaiah Thomas Lodge
Worcester MA
www.masslodges.org
.
Kansan1225
>second, ONE incident in almost three hundred years is not an
>indictment, it is a testimony.
As CLuM luck would have it, Captain William Morgan disappeared in August
1826, the month after the double sacrifice of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams
on the Fourth of July of 1826, the Jubilee of New Atlantis. Their
"coincidental" deaths were followed by the next death of a former President,
that of James Monroe, again on the Fourth of July of 1831.
Last week it was revealed in the Press that President Andrew Jackson also
died of poisoning, on June 8 1845 (two days after the birthday of the
Antichrist, June 6). The fact that Andrew Jackson was a Mason did not save him
from the CLuM sacrificial altar.
Things have not changed in the 20th century: Three successive Presidents
of New Atlantis were in Dallas on the 22nd day of the month, in November 1963.
The first, JFK, died on that day.
The second, L. B. Johnson, also died on the 22nd day of the month, in
January 1973.
The third, R. M. Nixon, also died on the 22nd day of the month, in April
1994, at the beginning of Taurus. RMN was followed in death by Jackie Kennedy
Onassis, the widow of JFK, who died on May 19, at the end of Taurus 1994.
Again, an apparition of the number 19, a reminder of the 19-year Metonic cycle
of the moon, as shown in Stanley Kubrick's 13th and last movie, "Eyes Wide
Shut".
Jeff Naylor
Kansan, you nitwit, has it ever occurred to you that the all of the
individuals you mention above were sacrificed on the altar of OLD AGE?
Get a life for God's sake.
Jeff Naylor, PM
Winchester Lodge #56, F. & A. M.
Winchester, Indiana
Jack Hickey
> As CLuM luck would have it, Captain William Morgan disappeared in August
>1826, the month after the double sacrifice of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams
>on the Fourth of July of 1826
Neither Jefferson nor Adams were Masons. Any thoughts on the death
of Brother George Washington? He most certainly WAS a Mason, and it
could reasonably be stated that he was "sacrificed" ... since his
death was largely caused by very stupid doctors.
I think we can agree also that darned near every suspicious death
that's ever happened, has occurred within a week before or a week
after either a full Moon or a new Moon.
In my last post, I very specifically asked for something ... ANYTHING
... new, any new stories about possible Masonic misconduct for us to
chew over, anything that hasn't been beaten to death already -- and I
think I asked for anything that you don't have to prove by numerology
or phases of the Moon or disappearing newspaper articles.
Can't think of any, can you? You went right back to that "CLuM"
bulldookey. Numerology does NOT constitute proof, Kansan.
As a matter of interest (to me) -- have you ever read "Foucault's
Pendulum" by Umberto Eco? I recommend it very, very highly, and I
strongly suspect that you would love it.
Tom Krummell
the Rev. Charles
Finney, has been vocal against Freemasonry. They don't often mention at
the outset,
however, that he has been dead for more than a hundred years!
(Thanks to Bro. Ed King for that factoid at
<http://www.masonicinfo.com/finney.htm>
tk
==================================
Peter Pedrotti wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:03:23 +0100, William
> <Jus...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [
> [Why I Left Freemasonry
> [By Charles G. Finney, D.D.
> <snip>
>
> Now this is a job for Prozac.
-- A closed mouth gathers no foot.--
P.J.
Kansan1225 wrote:
>
> Jimmy wrote:
>
> >Actually, Kansan, Kubrick did 16 films, not 13.
>
> I got my number of 13 movies from the CLuM news media. Who knows what
> agenda they were following?
You mean you don't? You who has an opinion on all the perceived agenda
of whom you call "CLuMs?"
I'm shocked!
Paul Julian Gould EA
Home Lodge #721 F&AM
Van Nuys, California, USA
--
=============================
Per Fimos Tauroram Ad Gloriam
=============================
Jim Bennie
> Some anti-Masons are proud to announce that a great religious leader,
> the Rev. Charles
> Finney, has been vocal against Freemasonry. They don't often mention at
> the outset,
> however, that he has been dead for more than a hundred years!
Well, Al Pike's been dead that long and they LOVE misinterpreting
his convoluted quotes.
Rev. Finney's story of (I think) 1868 has been posted several times
over the years here.
Jim Bennie, G.Stwd
PM Nos. 65 & 44, Vancouver
P.J.
Kansan1225 wrote:
>
> Paul Julian Gould wrote:
>
> >Kansan1225 wrote:
> >>
> >> Jimmy wrote:
> >>
> >> >Actually, Kansan, Kubrick did 16 films, not 13.
> >>
> >> I got my number of 13 movies from the CLuM news media. Who knows
> >what
> >> agenda they were following?
> >
> >
> >You mean you don't? You who has an opinion on all the perceived agenda
> >of whom you call "CLuMs?"
> >
> >I'm shocked!
> >
> >Paul Julian Gould EA
> >Home Lodge #721 F&AM
> >Van Nuys, California, USA
> >
>
> I can guess their agenda in this particular case, but it is not that
> important.
Something must be ailin' ye', Kansan. Everything is always important to
you.... you find symbology in everything!
Feelin' a mite crotchety tonight?
Kansan1225
>On 16 Aug 1999 22:57:33 GMT, kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
>
>> As CLuM luck would have it, Captain William Morgan disappeared in
>August
>>1826, the month after the double sacrifice of Thomas Jefferson and John
>Adams
The "coincidental" CLuM deaths of old coots does not seem strange to you,
eh?
How about some younger CLuM victims. Today is the anniversary of the
death of Elvis Aron Presley on August 16, 1977. That death happened at the
time of the New Moon of Leo, the so-called "Lion of Judah". Also, there was a
Blue Moon that August.
The CLuM meaning of "Elvis" is "Levi's", or "Aaron, the Priestly
descendant of Levi".
And another one: Hiram "Hank" Williams, Sr., died under suspicious
circumstances on January 1, 1953, again at the time of a Blue Moon. This Hiram
was not very old, he was just 29.
Jeff Naylor
> The "coincidental" CLuM deaths of old coots does not seem strange to you,
>eh?
No, Kansan. Old coots die every day. Check your paper.
> How about some younger CLuM victims. Today is the anniversary of the
>death of Elvis Aron Presley on August 16, 1977. That death happened at the
>time of the New Moon of Leo, the so-called "Lion of Judah". Also, there was a
>Blue Moon that August.
It also happened at a time that Presley was pounding narcotics at a
level that would have killed a rhino. That will induce death
regardless of the phase of the moon. Try again.
> The CLuM meaning of "Elvis" is "Levi's", or "Aaron, the Priestly
>descendant of Levi".
>
> And another one: Hiram "Hank" Williams, Sr., died under suspicious
>circumstances on January 1, 1953, again at the time of a Blue Moon. This Hiram
>was not very old, he was just 29.
What about Hank Aaron, Kansie? Geez, Hank Aaron ought to be a natural
CLuM sacrifice. Let's see, Aaron hit, what, 754 home runs...
7+5+4=16, his number was 44... I can't make anything out of that
Kansan. Would you happen to know what street or parallel Hammerin
Hank lives on?
Antis...
Kansan1225
>As a matter of interest (to me) -- have you ever read "Foucault's
>Pendulum" by Umberto Eco? I recommend it very, very highly, and I
>strongly suspect that you would love it.
>
I have read this book and recommend it to people to become familiar with
CLuM mythology. The only caveat is to remember that Eco follows the orders of
his CLuM masters in the end.
Kansan1225
>What about Hank Aaron?
I have written about Hank Aaron twice already. Do a Newsgroup search and
recover the information.
Kansan1225
>Some anti-Masons are proud to announce that a great religious leader,
>the Rev. Charles
>Finney, has been vocal against Freemasonry. They don't often mention at
>the outset,
>however, that he has been dead for more than a hundred years!
>
If he is dead, does that automatically make his position invalid?
Or does Masonic "truth" change with the passage of time? Are the Masonic
lies of the 20th century different from the Masonic lies of the 19th century?
Kansan1225
Kansan1225
Kansan1225
>Something must be ailin' ye', Kansan. Everything is always important to
>you.... you find symbology in everything!
>Feelin' a mite crotchety tonight?
>
A lot of things are important, but there are various degrees of
importance.
News RoadRunner
to answer the post I put up a few days ago, and
specifically the point:
==========
While it is true that some Bishops in
the various Eastern Orthodox Churches oppose Freemasonry, the Orthodox Church
itself has no position on the matter. Indeed, two of the most outstanding
leaders of the Orthodox Church within the last generation (Patriarch Athenagoras
of Constantinople and Patriarch Benedict of Jerusalem) were Freemasons!!!
==========
I guess the fact that you are saying these things in blatant disregard for your
religion is one of those varying degrees of importance? A selective follower
and not a follower in toto?
-Charles K. Reed
Kansan1225 <kansa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990816233510...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
j Dolan
> I guess the fact that you are saying these things in blatant disregard for your
> religion is one of those varying degrees of importance? A selective follower
> and not a follower in toto?
"Gosh Toto, this doesn't look like Kansas anymore."
jim MM
White River #90
Bethel, Vt.
Joe Schmuckatelli
:>> I guess the fact that you are saying these things in blatant disregard for your
:>> religion is one of those varying degrees of importance? A selective follower
:>> and not a follower in toto?
:>
:>"Gosh Toto, this doesn't look like Kansas anymore."
Or rather, "This doesn't look like Kansan anymore..."
-----------------------------------------------
"One World; One Web; One Program." -- Microsoft
"Ein Volk; Ein Reich; Ein Fuhrer." -- Hitler
-----------------------------------------------
Kansan1225
>The fact is that this invalidates your theories about Stanley
>Kubrick, who you've gone on and on about theorizing that Eyes
>Wide Shut was part of your grand CLUM scheme
I may have been wrong about the number of Kubrick's films. However,
anyone who sees his last movie, "Eyes Wide Shut", will see unmistakable
evidence of clandestine Masonry. Look for the double-headed eagle, the most
prominent symbol of the Scottish Rite.
Look for the number 19, hovering over the dead body of the woman
sacrificed for the benefit of William "Levi, or Lewis" Harford (the Tom Cruise
character). The number 19, the most muted Masonic mystery number, is a
reminder of the 19-year Metonic cycle of the moon.
Jeff Naylor
Why does THAT not shock me?
Dude, you are seriously frootloops.
News RoadRunner
-Charles K. Reed
Joe Schmuckatelli <joesc...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW> wrote in message
news:7pasv0$qvq$2...@nusku.cts.com...
Jeff Naylor
> Look for the number 19, hovering over the dead body of the woman
>sacrificed for the benefit of William "Levi, or Lewis" Harford (the Tom Cruise
>character). The number 19, the most muted Masonic mystery number, is a
>reminder of the 19-year Metonic cycle of the moon.
Kansan, the only reminders of the "19-year Metonic cycle of the moon"
come from you.
By the way, every time I see a calendar, I see the number 19. By your
twisted stream of "logic", any time anyone died in the same room as a
calendar, it would be a reminder of the 19-year Metonic cycle of the
moon, whatever that is.
Get help.
Jeff Naylor
> Or does Masonic "truth" change with the passage of time? Are the Masonic
>lies of the 20th century different from the Masonic lies of the 19th century?
Kansan, the "19" in "19th century" is a reminder of the 19 year
Metonic cycle of the moon. Obviously, you can immediately discount
any history occurring in the 19th century as a CLuM fabrication.
I'm surprised you didn't pick up on this obvious fact.
Kansan1225
>Jeff Naylor, PM
>Winchester Lodge #56, F. & A. M.
>Winchester, Indiana
>
CLuM symbolism is complicated. Any time you see the number 19 it does
not mean that the CLuMs put it there; one has to investigate the surrounding
context.
For example, your first name, Jeff, or Jeffrey, has the CLuM code meaning
of "Solomon"; this does not mean that your parents were aware of this when
they gave you this name.
However, in the case of "William Jefferson Clinton", the CLuM meaning of
his name, "Levi, a descendant of Solomon and a descendant of Cleito", was very
important in his selection by the CLuMs to be President of New Atlantis at the
time when the Antichrist is starting his public career.
Jouni Hiltunen
Kansan1225 wrote:
> CLuM symbolism is complicated. Any time you see the number 19 it does
> not mean that the CLuMs put it there; one has to investigate the surrounding
> context.
>
> For example, your first name, Jeff, or Jeffrey, has the CLuM code meaning
> of "Solomon"; this does not mean that your parents were aware of this when
> they gave you this name.
>
> However, in the case of "William Jefferson Clinton", the CLuM meaning of
> his name, "Levi, a descendant of Solomon and a descendant of Cleito", was very
> important in his selection by the CLuMs to be President of New Atlantis at the
> time when the Antichrist is starting his public career.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
This is getting interesting, could you decode my name too?
Jouni Juhani Hiltunen
- --
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and
I'm not sure about the former."
- -Albert Einstein
======
E-mail me for my public PGP-key, remove the no-spam. from the address.
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Christopher Harris
>Look for the double-headed eagle, the most prominent symbol of the Scottish
Rite.
The Double Headed Eagle was a symbol of the Holy Roman Empire long before the
Scottish Rite borrowed it to use. One head faces East towards Byzantiam (sp?)
the other West towards Rome.
Chris Harris
McDonald Lodge # 324 AF & AM Independence, Missouri
(S.W. elect & Education Officer)
York Rite RAM RSM KT; York Rite College; 32° AASR (SJ); Order of True Kindred,
Shrine; Highlander Clan # 1. Hillbilly Clan # 124; O.R.C.O.M.O.T. Shrine Club.
Kansan1225
>This is getting interesting, could you decode my name, too?
To find out the CLuM code meaning of your name and for any additional
spiritual advice, please call Sister Fatima Toyota at the Catholic Protest
compound, 1 (900) 131-3131.
Pope Pompous Pilot
>
> >On 17 Aug 1999 12:00:09 GMT, kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
> >
> >> The number 19, the most muted Masonic mystery number, is a
> >>reminder of the 19-year Metonic cycle of the moon.
> >
The real number you are looking for is 23 because it leads to the Law
of 5's.
From 19 you get there by the following:
1+9 = 10 when divided by the number of digits in 19 (2) gives you five
or
9 - 1 = 8
8 = 2 + 2 x 2
which is 3 two's which is 23
and 2+3=5
23 Skidoo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seek and ye shall find
-><-
Pope Pompous Pilot
Namer of the Three-Toed Toth
Arch Duke of Hassenpfeffer
Lord Protector of the Biogenic Law
Pronouncer of the Sacred Word-Yahtzee
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Richard Vizzutti
>On 16 Aug 1999 22:57:33 GMT, kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
>
>>Again, an apparition of the number 19, a reminder of the 19-year Metonic cycle
>>of the moon, as shown in Stanley Kubrick's 13th and last movie, "Eyes Wide
>>Shut".
>
>Actually, Kansan, Kubrick did 16 films, not 13. A list follows.
>Buzzzzzzzz. You lose. Thanks for playing.
>
> 1951 Day of the Fight
> 1951 Flying Padre
> 1953 The Seafarers
> 1953 Fear and Desire
> 1955 Killer's Kiss
> 1956 The Killing
> 1957 Paths of Glory
> 1960 Spartacus
> 1962 Lolita
> 1964 Dr. Strangelove
> 1968 2001: A Space Odyssey
> 1971 A Clockwork Orange
> 1975 Barry Lyndon
> 1980 The Shining
> 1987 Full Metal Jacket
> 1999 Eyes Wide Shut
>
>Jimmy
>
>PS. I don't believe that you've associated any CLUM
> meaning to 16 yet, but I'm sure you'll do it now (Yes, I have
> that much confidence in you).
So because Kansan was in error on this one item, you are going to throw
the baby out with the bath water? This simple error does not cancel
everything else he has said. That's being ignorant. -Rick-
--
Need to create a webpage?
Tiger Tech Web Design
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/tigertech/index.html
edrem11
signature of God and that certain combinations of it verify that the Quran is the
only authentic scripture given by God. Work on that for a while.
Ed. Remond MM
Perfect Union #1
Kenner, Louisiana
C R
to sell their views? Be it by pamphlet, book, or 1-900 phone numbers? Gotta
love these anti-mason profiteers, loosely disguised as religious zealots.
-CKR
Rich
>On 17 Aug 1999 02:55:10 GMT, kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
>>>Actually, Kansan, Kubrick did 16 films, not 13.
>>I got my number of 13 movies from the CLuM news media. Who knows what
>>agenda they were following?
>
>
>The best defense *is* a good offense. I compliment you on your
>attempt to dodge the issue. It almost worked.
>
>The fact is that this invalidates your theories about Stanley
>Kubrick, who you've gone on and on about theorizing that Eyes
>Wide Shut was part of your grand CLUM scheme. So, evidently
>it wasn't. So, evidently you just imagined all that stuff
>about Kubrick. So, evidently you are not some great mystic
>finding CLUM hoofprints, you are just using your imagination
>and posting your fantasies for us to read.
I *really* hate to extend this thread any further, but what the heck
is CLuM supposed to stand for? Creamated logs under marshmallows?
Cooked lobster under mayonaise? Certified lunatics understand
molybdenum?
Richard Trump
Chico Leland-Stanford #111 F&AM
Chico, CA
Rich
> Jouni Juhani Hiltunen wrote:
>
>>This is getting interesting, could you decode my name, too?
>
> To find out the CLuM code meaning of your name and for any additional
>spiritual advice, please call Sister Fatima Toyota at the Catholic Protest
>compound, 1 (900) 131-3131.
Aw, but this was starting to get interesting. Don't you have a
decoder ring or something you can use? Or a web site where I can just
plug in my name and get the secret code?
This is almost as fun as playing *spy* when I was a kid!
Maybe *I* can be Elvis!
Richard Trump
Chico-Leland Stanford #111 F&AM
Chico, CA
joeschmu...@kill.spamford.wallace.now
>Kansan, the only reminders of the "19-year Metonic cycle of the moon"
>come from you.
Indeed. He didn't start whining about it until Susan Lucci finally won her
Emmy... on her 19th try.
Peter Pedrotti
wrote:
[In article <37bdc2b8...@news.shore.net>, nob...@usa.net
(Jimmy) wrote:
[
[>On 16 Aug 1999 22:57:33 GMT, kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
[>
[>>Again, an apparition of the number 19, a reminder of the 19-year
Metonic cycle
[>>of the moon, as shown in Stanley Kubrick's 13th and last movie,
"Eyes Wide
[>>Shut".
[>
[>Actually, Kansan, Kubrick did 16 films, not 13. A list follows.
Sorry, Rick,
If you think Kansan is to be derided for one minor factual error only,
you obviously are either new to the NG or don't have much of an
attention span. Although he is obviously very intelligent and
frequently downright amusing, not a single subordinate clause in any
sentence he has ever written here is connected with the reality of
objects in any way. Read any of his posts that labor to equate unequal
integers with one another, and you will begin to get the flavor of his
thought processes. He would have to be bright to be so consistently
stupid.
Mark Twain once spoofed a particular tendency in scientists of his (or
any) era. He did a calculation based on the observation that the
Mississippi delta grows at so many inches per year from silt deposits,
and predicted how many centuries before the Moon would get wet. He
marvelled at how much conclusion he could derive from so little
information.
Kansan can spin mental cobwebs ad infinitum from the "fact" that
Jacques DeMolay died on a Friday the 13th just as there were 13
original United States.
Peter Pedrotti, PM
Eugene Goldman.·.
wrote:
*Mark Twain once spoofed a particular tendency in scientists of his (or
*any) era. He did a calculation based on the observation that the
*Mississippi delta grows at so many inches per year from silt deposits,
*and predicted how many centuries before the Moon would get wet. He
*marvelled at how much conclusion he could derive from so little
*information.
*
*Kansan can spin mental cobwebs ad infinitum from the "fact" that
*Jacques DeMolay died on a Friday the 13th just as there were 13
*original United States.
And Jesus had 13 deciples,
So that means George Washington was the Messiah?
Hey, this is fun!
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
Who said that?
Brother Gene .*.
http://www.calodges.org/no442
http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
http://www.freemason.org
MBBFMN #387
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission may be granted to others upon request.
joeschmu...@kill.spamford.wallace.now
>And Jesus had 13 deciples,
>So that means George Washington was the Messiah?
If you eat 13 double doubles, does that mean you have to spend 666 hours on the
treadmill?
Eugene Goldman.·.
joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW wrote:
*On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:03:31 GMT, br_...@pacbell.net (Eugene Goldman.·.) wrote:
*
*>And Jesus had 13 deciples,
*>So that means George Washington was the Messiah?
*
*If you eat 13 double doubles, does that mean you have to spend 666 hours on the
*treadmill?
Yes, unless it happens within two weeks of a full or new moon, or
during a Month with a vowel in it.
On Wednesdays, I get extra pickles. I like pickles. Free food, don't
have any carbs.
Dr. Roger M. Firestone
"care at" all for Kansan1225's lunacy, that is one less "care at" making
13. Proving that Kansan1225 is one carrot short of a bunch.
sqrt(2) = 1.41421... 1+4+1+4+2+1 = 13
sqrt(3) = 1.732... 1+7+3+2 = 13
sqrt(5) = 2.236... 2+2+3+6 = 13
Proves that the "CLuMs" have taken over the positive integers. Wonder
what these square roots were before the "CLuM" conspiracy started?
Heinz makes 57 varieties. And 5+7=13. What? 12? Can't be.
Everything has to add up to 13.
PI ~~= 3.1416 and 3 +1 + 4 - 1 + 6 = 13. See! How do you know when to
add and when to subtract? Just ask Kansan(-12 + 25)...
Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH
jruble
Richard Vizzutti wrote in message ...
>the baby out with the bath water? This simple error does not cancel
>everything else he has said. That's being ignorant. -Rick-
>
>Need to create a webpage?
> Tiger Tech Web Design
> http://www.angelfire.com/wy/tigertech/index.html
Please, Rick
Read some more of Kansan's posts before you call any one refering to him as
ignorant.
As of now, you may be uninformed.
SCOTTY
Roncelin de Fos
kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
> I can guess their agenda in this particular case, but it is not that
> important.
LOL!! And to think that I was becoming concerned you might actually close in
on the true agenda of our global machinations. Whew!!
OK, Nutboy. Since you're so deft I will freely give you this advice. It makes
a BIG difference between 16 films and 13 films AND the fact that we only
reported it as 13. IF (certainly not "when") you discover that reason you
will be on the verge of obtaining the key to unlock the meanings behind all
of our doings.
For my brethren who may be shocked that I admitted so much to a "profane" let
me say that I am not concerned with this cowan's cognitive abilities. Even
so, who would believe him?
--
"We hear a promise, hard to understand:
From the compulsion that all creatures binds,
Who overcomes himself, his freedom finds."
--Goethe
Richard Vizzutti
(Eugene Goldman.·.) wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:35:18 GMT, pedr...@slip.net (Peter Pedrotti)
>wrote:
>
>*Mark Twain once spoofed a particular tendency in scientists of his (or
>*any) era. He did a calculation based on the observation that the
>*Mississippi delta grows at so many inches per year from silt deposits,
>*and predicted how many centuries before the Moon would get wet. He
>*marvelled at how much conclusion he could derive from so little
>*information.
>*
>*Kansan can spin mental cobwebs ad infinitum from the "fact" that
>*Jacques DeMolay died on a Friday the 13th just as there were 13
>*original United States.
>
>And Jesus had 13 deciples,
Jesus had only 12 disciples. Judas was never apart of them. -Rick-
>So that means George Washington was the Messiah?
>
>Hey, this is fun!
>
>
>|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
>Who said that?
>
>Brother Gene .*.
>http://www.calodges.org/no442
>http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
>http://www.freemason.org
>MBBFMN #387
>And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
>
> Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
>Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission
may be granted to others upon request.
--
Richard Vizzutti
thirteens. Yes? No?
-Rick-
In article <37b9c63a...@news.swbell.net>, br_...@pacbell.net
(Eugene Goldman.·.) wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:20:14 GMT,
>joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW wrote:
>
>*On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:03:31 GMT, br_...@pacbell.net (Eugene
Goldman.·.) wrote:
>*
>*>And Jesus had 13 deciples,
>*>So that means George Washington was the Messiah?
>*
>*If you eat 13 double doubles, does that mean you have to spend 666 hours
on the
>*treadmill?
>
>Yes, unless it happens within two weeks of a full or new moon, or
>during a Month with a vowel in it.
>
>On Wednesdays, I get extra pickles. I like pickles. Free food, don't
>have any carbs.
>
>
Regina Townsend Krause
his death Matthias was chosen to take his place.
Regina
Richard Vizzutti wrote:
> Jesus had only 12 disciples. Judas was never apart of them. -Rick-
>
> >So that means George Washington was the Messiah?
> >Hey, this is fun!
Jim Bennie
Naylor) wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:47:05 -0800, ri...@aisl.bc.ca (Richard Vizzutti)
> wrote:
> >Exuse me. But the Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar is full of
> >thirteens. Yes? No?
> Sigh. Must we go through this again?
Afraid so, Jeff.
> There's no Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar bill.
And there IS no one dollar bill where Mr. Vizzutti resides.
When there was one, there were no Masonic symbols on it either.
To a Canadian, the only symbol on the US dollar bill is the
symbolisation of the weakening Canadian economy, since the Canadian $
was worth about $1.04 US when I was a kid.
Jim Bennie, G.Stwd.
PM Nos. 65 & 44, Vancouver
joeschmu...@kill.spamford.wallace.now
>On Wednesdays, I get extra pickles. I like pickles. Free food, don't
>have any carbs.
I'll bear that in mind when our cucumber plants start producing.
Paul C. Dickie
<Jus...@jiwalu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Why I Left Freemasonry
>By Charles G. Finney, D.D.
All of which was, predictably, lies...
>And Masonic oaths pledge its members to some of the
>most unlawful and unchristian things:
>1. To conceal each other's crimes.
That is a lie.
>2. To deliver each other from difficulty, whether right or wrong.
That is another lie.
>3. To unduly favour Masonry in political action and in business matters.
That is another lie.
>4. Its members are sworn to retaliate and persecute unto death the
>violators of Masonic obligations.
That is another lie.
>5. Freemasonry knows no mercy, and swears its candidates to avenge
>violations of Masonic obligations unto death.
That is another lie.
>6. Its oaths are profane, taking the Name of God in vain.
That is another lie.
>7. The penalties of these oaths are barbarous, even savage.
That is another lie.
>8. Its teachings are false and profane.
That is another lie.
>9. Its designs are partial and selfish.
That is another lie.
>10. Its ceremonies are a mixture of puerility and profanity.
That is another lie.
>11. Its religion is false.
It isn't a religion and, hence, the above claim is another lie.
>12. It professes to save men on other conditions than those revealed in
>the Gospel of Christ.
That is another lie. No such claims are made or were ever made.
>13. It is wholly an enormous falsehood.
That is another lie.
>14. It is a swindle, obtaining money from its members under false
>pretenses.
That is another lie.
>15. It refuses all examinations, and veils itself under a mantle of
>oath-bound secrecy.
That is another lie.
>16. It is virtual conspiracy against both Church and State.
That is another lie.
Now ask yourself just how "Christian" it is to publish lies about others
and whether Christ would have approved of such shenanigans.
>(Reprinted from "Memoirs" of President Finney, formerly of Oberlin
>College.)
Oberlin College? Where's that and of what was he "President"?
>Copied from a tract published by National Christian Association --
>publishers since 1868 of literature exposing secret societies.
From the above, they prove themselves to be publishers of twaddle; that
they have been doing so for over 100 years does not make their nonsense
and lies any more valid but, rather, may cast some doubt upon the
intelligence (and fair-mindedness) of their readers, if not of
themselves as well.
--
< Paul >
Jeff Naylor
wrote:
>Exuse me. But the Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar is full of
>thirteens. Yes? No?
Sigh. Must we go through this again?
No.
There's no Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar bill. If we
were going to put a symbol on American currency, it would have been
the $1000 bill. An organization the quality of Freemasonry deserves
nothing less than to be on the highest denomination note.
Besides, if there *were* a Masonic symbol on the back of the one
dollar bill, I'd petition the "high Masons" to fill it full of
*nineteens*, just to make Kansan's day a little brighter. It's a
reminder of some moon cycle that Kansan worships, apparently.
Kansan1225
>
>Excuse me. But the Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar is full of
>thirteens. Yes? No?
>
>-Rick-
>
The Masonic propagandists think that if they adopt an ostrich posture,
everybody else will follow suit.
The most important group of thirteens on the dollar bill is that of the
thirteen stars over the eagle. These 13 stars form an occult hexagram, the
so-called Star of David, or Seal of Solomon, an important symbol of the Masonic
Scottish Rite. Hide in plain sight.
News RoadRunner
1 And he called to him his twelve disciples, and gave them
authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every
disease and infirmity.
2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon,
who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector;
James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
And as for being a treasurer, I am not sure, but he did receive money... Luke
22:3-6...
3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the
number of the twelve;
4 He went away and conferred with the chief priests and
officers how he might betray him to them.
5 And they were glad, and engaged to give him money.
The same can also be found in Matthew 26 and mark 14, I do believe.
Cheers!
-Charles K. Reed
Regina Townsend Krause <reg...@sunflower.com> wrote in message
news:37BA4754...@sunflower.com...
Thomas Hooker
There's no Masonic symbol on the back of the dollar bill.
Thomas Hooker
Louis Priester #1150, Vickery #1351, Chalk Mt #894, Texas.
Richard Vizzutti <ri...@aisl.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:rick-17089...@dial166.aisl.bc.ca...
Exuse me. But the Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar is full of
thirteens. Yes? No?
Thomas Hooker
> There's no Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar bill. If we
> were going to put a symbol on American currency, it would have been
> the $1000 bill. An organization the quality of Freemasonry deserves
> nothing less than to be on the highest denomination note.
Actually, $500.00 bills are available for bank actions, but
$100.00 bills are the largest available for public use.
> Besides, if there *were* a Masonic symbol on the back of the one
> dollar bill, I'd petition the "high Masons" to fill it full of
> *nineteens*, just to make Kansan's day a little brighter. It's a
> reminder of some moon cycle that Kansan worships, apparently.
>
>
> Jeff Naylor, PM
> Winchester Lodge #56, F. & A. M.
> Winchester, Indiana
Thomas Hooker
Louis Priester #1150, Vickery #1351, Chalk Mt. #894, Texas.
Rich
Goldman.·.) wrote:
>On Wednesdays, I get extra pickles. I like pickles. Free food, don't
>have any carbs.
>
Must be another lowcarber?
Richard Trump
Chico-Leland Stanford #111
Chico, CA
Jeff Naylor
<mas...@airmail.net> wrote:
> Actually, $500.00 bills are available for bank actions, but
> $100.00 bills are the largest available for public use.
>
True today. My understanding is that the $1000 bills were taken out
of circulation because they were being used for large and generally
illegal cash transactions to escape IRS scrutiny.
Eugene Goldman.·.
joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW wrote:
*On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:31:30 GMT, br_...@pacbell.net (Eugene Goldman.·.) wrote:
*
*>On Wednesdays, I get extra pickles. I like pickles. Free food, don't
*>have any carbs.
*
*I'll bear that in mind when our cucumber plants start producing.
English cukes? I LOVE those!
Eugene Goldman.·.
*On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:31:30 GMT, br_...@pacbell.net (Eugene
*Goldman.·.) wrote:
*
*>On Wednesdays, I get extra pickles. I like pickles. Free food, don't
*>have any carbs.
*>
*Must be another lowcarber?
DM type II.
Ted Berry
"News RoadRunner" <char...@coluNOSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
> Quoted from KJV Bible, the number of disciples was 12...
12 Disciples plus 1 Messiah = 13 THE MAGIC NUMBER!
(sorry...couldn't help it)
--
Ted Berry 32' PSD
Benjamin B. French Lodge #15 Washington DC
Albert Pike Consistory, etc. Valley of DC
Eastern Star Lodge, Rehoboth, Mass
Richard Vizzutti
say. He was stealing from the purse and never really showed any belief in
Jesus. One get's the feeling that he was a Zealot.
-Rick-
In article <nnqu3.6907$TM2.169458@viper>, "News RoadRunner"
<char...@coluNOSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
--
Richard Vizzutti
-Rick-
In article
<8FF7E0F37146C892.6B483A54...@lp.airnews.net>,
"Thomas Hooker" <mas...@airmail.net> wrote:
>There's no Masonic symbol on the back of the dollar bill.
>
>Thomas Hooker
>Louis Priester #1150, Vickery #1351, Chalk Mt #894, Texas.
>
>
>Richard Vizzutti <ri...@aisl.bc.ca> wrote in message
>news:rick-17089...@dial166.aisl.bc.ca...
> Exuse me. But the Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar is full of
>thirteens. Yes? No?
--
Eugene Goldman.·.
wrote:
*Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American" bill????
[begin reposted text]
THE EYE IN TIIE PYRAMID
By S Brent Morris P M
In, at times, a strongly worded article Dr. S. Brent Morris, a member
and Past Master of Patmos Lodge #70, Ellicott City, Maryland, has "set
the record straight" on the myth that the Great Seal of the United
States represents a Masonic symbol. The facts are clearly presented,
together with several examples of the use of the "All Seeing Eye"
prior to any known Masonic use. This straightforward article is being
presented as a STB so that Freemasons may have an answer when the
question is asked
"Is the Seal of the United States a Masonic symbol?"
Historians must be cautious about many well known "facts." George
Washington chopped down a cherry tree when a boy and confessed the
deed to his father. Abner Doubleday invented the game of baseball.
Freemasons inserted some of their emblems (chief among them the eye in
the pyramid) into the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.
These historical "facts" are widely popular, commonly accepted, and
equally false.
The eye in the pyramid (emblazoned on the dollar bill, no less) is
often cited as "evidence" that sinister conspiracies abound which will
impose a "New World Order" on an unsuspecting populace. Depending on
whom you hear it from, the Masons are planning the takeover
themselves, or are working in concert with European bankers, or are
leading (or perhaps being led by) the Illuminati (whoever they are).
The notion of a world-wide Masonic conspiracy would be laughable, if
it weren't being repeated with such earnest gullibility by
conspiracists like Pat Robertson.
Sadly, Masons are sometimes counted among the gullible who repeat the
tall tale of the eye in the pyramid, often with a touch of pride. They
may be guilty of nothing worse than innocently puffing the importance
of their fraternity (as well as themselves), but they're guilty
nonethe less. The time has come to state the truth plainly and simply!
The Great Seal of the United States is not a Masonic emblem, nor does
it contain hidden Masonic symbols.
The details are there for anyone to check, who's willing to rely on
historical fact, rather than hysterical fiction.
• Benjamin Franklin was the only Mason on the 1st design comnuttee,
and his suggestions had no Masonic content.
• None of the final designers of the seal were Masons.
• The interpretation of the eye on the seal is subtly different
from the interpretation used by Masons.
• The eye in the pyramid is not nor has it ever been a Masonic
symbol.
THE 1ST COMMITEE
On Independence Day, 1776 a committee was created to design a seal for
the new American nation. The committee's members were Benjamin
Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simitiere
as artist and consultant.'
Of the four men involved, only Benjamin Franklin was a Mason, and he
contributed nothing of a Masonic nature to the committee's proposed
design for a seal.
Du Simitiere, the committee's consultant and a non-Mason, contributed
several major design features that made their way into the ultimate
design of the seal: the shield, E Pluribus Unum, MDCCLXXVI, and the
eye of providence in a triangle."2 The eye of providence on the seal
thus can be traced, not to the Masons, but to a non-Mason consultant
to the committee.
~The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an
omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance.
Du Simitiere, who suggested using the symbol, collected art books and
was familiar with the artistic and ornamental devices used in
Renaissance art.,, This was the same cultural iconography that
eventually led Masons to add the all-seeing eye to their symbols.
THE SECOND AND THIRD COMMITTEES
Congress declined the first committees suggestions as well as those of
its 1780 committee. Francis Hopkinson, consultant to the second
committee, had several ideas that eventually made it into the seal:
'~white and red stripes within a blue background for the shield, a
radiant constellafion of thirteen stars, and an olive branch."4
Hopkinson's greatest contribution to the current seal came from his
layout of a 1778 50-dollar colonial note in which he used an
unfinished pyramid in the design. The third and last seal committee of
1782 produced a design that finally satisfied Congress. Charles
Thomson, Secretary of Congress, and William Barton, artist and
consultant, borrowed from earlier designs and sketched what at length
became the United States Seal.
The misinterpretation of the seal as a Masonic emblem may have been
first introduced a century later in 1884. Harvard Professor Eliot
Norton wrote that the reverse was practically incapable of effective
treatment; it can hardly, (however artistically treated by the
designer), look otherwise than as a dull emblem of a Masonic
fraternity."5
INTERPRETING THE SYMBOL
The 'Remarks and Explanations" of Thomson and Barton are the only
explanation of the symbols' meaning. Despite what anti-Masons may
believe, there's no reason to doubt the interpretation accepted by the
Congress.
The Pyramid signified Strength and Duration: The Eye over it & the
Motto allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favor
of the American cause.6
The committees and consultants who designed the great Seal of the
United States contained only one Mason, Benjamin Franklin. The only
possib/y Masonic design element among the very many on the seal is the
eye of providence, and the interpretation of it by the designers is
different from that used by Masons. The eye on the seal represents an
active intervention of God in the affairs of men, while the Masonic
symbol stands for a passive awareness by God of the activities of men.
The first 'Official" use and definition of the allseeing eye as a
Masonic symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemasons Monitor
of Thomas Smith Webb-14 years after Congress adopted the design for
the seal. Here's how Webb explains the symbol.
"And although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the
eyes of man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon and Stars
obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their
stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human
heart, and will reward us according to our merits."7
THE EYE IN THE PYRAMID
Besides the subtly different interpretations of the symbol, it is
notable that Webb did not describe the eye as being in a triangle.
Jeremy Ladd Cross published The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic
Monitor in 1819, essentially an illustrated version of Webb's Monitor.
In this first "official" depiction of Webb's symbol, Cross had
illustrator Amos Doolittle depict the eye surrounded by a semicircular
glory.'
The all-seeing eye thus appears to be a rather recent addition to
Masonic symbolism. It is not found in any of the Gothic Constitutions,
written from about 1390 to 1730. The eye~sometimes in a triangle,
sometimes in clouds, but nearly always surrounded by a glory~was a
popular Masonic decorative device in the latter half of the 18th
century. Its use as a design element seems to have been an artistic
representation of the omniscience of God, rather than some generally
accepted Masonic symbol.
Its meaning in all cases, however, was that commonly given it by
society at large~a reminder of the constant presence of God. For
example, in 1614 the frontispiece of The History of the World by
Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled '~Providentia"
overlooking a globe. It has not been suggested that Raleigh' 5 History
is a Masonic document despite the use of the all-seeing eye
The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of
the 17th and 18th centuries~ When placed in a triangle, the eye went
beyond a general representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian
statement~ It was during this period that Masonic ritual and symbolism
evolved; and it is not surprising that many symbols common to and
understood by the general society made their way into Masonic
ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the triangle because of the
frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three
original grand masters, three principal officers, and so on.
Eventually the all-seeing eye came to be used officially by Masons as
a symbol for God, but this happened towards the end of the eighteenth
century, after congress had adopted the seal.
A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a
Masonic symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except
perhaps permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence
overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic,
icon, and must be interpreted as its designers intended. It has no
Masonic context.
CONCLUSION
It's hard to know what leads some to see Masonic conspiracies behind
world events, but once that hypothesis is accepted, any jot and tittIe
can be misinterpreted as evidence." The Great Seal of the United
States is a classic example of such a misinterpretation, and some
Masons are as guilty of the exaggeration as many anti-Masons.
7
The Great Seal and Masonic symbolism grew out of the same cultural
milieu. While the all- seeing eye had been popularized in Masonic
designs of the late eighteenth century, it did not achieve any sort of
official recognition until Webb's 1797 Monitor. Whatever status the
symbol may have had during the design of the Great Seal, it was not
adopted or approved or endorsed by any Grand Lodge. The seal's Eye of
Providence and the Mason's All Seeing Eye each express Divine
Omnipotence, but they are parallel uses of a shared icon, not a single
symbol.
NOTES
1. Robert Hieronimus, America's Secret Destiny (Rochester, Vt.:
Destiny Books, 1989), p.48.
2. Patterson and Dougall in Hieronimus, p.48.
3. Hieronimus, p.81.
4. Hieronimus, p.51.
5. Hieronimus, p.57.
6. ~ Thomas and W. Barton in Rieronimus, p.54.
7. Thomas Smith Webb, The Freemasons
Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry (Salem,
Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821), p.66.
8. Jeremy Ladd Cross, The True Masonic Chart
or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. (New Haven,
Conn.: By the Author, 1824), plate 22.
REFERENCES
Cross, Jeremy Ladd. The True Masonic Chart
or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. New Raven,
Conn.: By the Author, 1824.
Hieronimus, Robert. America '5 Secret Destiny.
Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books, 1989.
Webb, Thomas Smith. The Freemasons Monitor or Illustrations of
Masonry. Salem, Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821.
_______________________________________________
Peter Pedrotti
wrote:
[Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American"
bill????
Richard,
Simple. It's not a Masonic symbol. There are no Egyptian Masonic
symbols. And even if it were Masonic, what would be un-American about
it anyway? The US is the only country with a fairly effective
separation of church and state in place, a Masonic principle. He has
smiled upon this undertaking, a new order of government.
Peter Pedrotti, PM
[-Rick-
j Dolan
>
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:56:39 -0800, ri...@aisl.bc.ca (Richard Vizzutti)
> wrote:
>
> [Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American"
> bill????
>
> Richard,
>
> Simple. It's not a Masonic symbol. There are no Egyptian Masonic
> symbols. And even if it were Masonic, what would be un-American about
> it anyway? The US is the only country with a fairly effective
> separation of church and state in place, a Masonic principle. He has
> smiled upon this undertaking, a new order of government.
If I'm not mistaken, though it is a quite different approach, result,
and effect, North Korea has a very effective separation of church and state.
You can be of any religion you want there, as long as it doesn't exist.
My apologies to any North Koreans that this might offend, but their effective
free speech probably makes that unnecessary.
jim MM
White River #90
Bethel, Vt.
Jonathan Norburg
>
> >(Reprinted from "Memoirs" of President Finney, formerly of Oberlin
> >College.)
>
> Oberlin College? Where's that and of what was he "President"?
>
Finney was President of Oberlin College, a small liberal arts
college in Oberlin, Ohio, which, at one point in the early 80's
had the worst team in college football, setting a record for
futility on the gridiron only surpassed by Columbia University
a few years later.
More info on Finney here:
http://www.oberlin.edu/~EOG/images/CharlesGrandisonFinney.html
--
Jonathan Norburg
Smeagol, Smeagol, Smeagol. I thought we had an understanding.
I do you a favour, you do me a favour. Just one little ring.
-Don Sauroni, Godfather of the Rings.
Jonathan Norburg
>
> He was with them, but he was never apart of them is what I was trying to
> say. He was stealing from the purse and never really showed any belief in
> Jesus. One get's the feeling that he was a Zealot.
>
so horrific in Christianity? Because not only was he one of the twelve, he
was Jesus' right hand man up until shortly before the betrayal.
I don't know why I'm arguing with you, though, as you seen to have no
real knowledge behind your words, nor do you seem terribly interested
in actually learning anything which doesn't conform to your previously
held views.
> --
> Need to create a webpage?
> Tiger Tech Web Design
> http://www.angelfire.com/wy/tigertech/index.html
--
j Dolan
>
> Paul C. Dickie wrote:
> >
>
> > >(Reprinted from "Memoirs" of President Finney, formerly of Oberlin
> > >College.)
> >
> > Oberlin College? Where's that and of what was he "President"?
> >
> Finney was President of Oberlin College, a small liberal arts
> college in Oberlin, Ohio, which, at one point in the early 80's
> had the worst team in college football, setting a record for
> futility on the gridiron only surpassed by Columbia University
> a few years later.
Maybe they banned 'huddles' because they were secret meetings?
Eugene Goldman.·.
wrote:
*So Masons have nothing to do with Pyramids or all seeing eyes?
*-Rick-
Nope, nothing. Well, almost nothing. The all-seeing eye of Our
Divine Creator should always remind us that His Fatherly Gaze is
always upon us, and our activities. But we did not make it up, just
use the symbol to teach the lesson.
C R
State has against Michigan! They will probably beat Michigan again in
... 8 years (note, I arrived at that number using Kansan numerology
logic and the fact that Michigan wears Masonic Blue and not Luciferian
Red).
M Go Blue! :) Couldn't resist :) Although, the Trojans of USC are
always number 1 in my heart, gotta support the alma mater!
-Charles K. Reed, MM
South Pasadena Lodge #290
Jonathan Norburg wrote:
> Paul C. Dickie wrote:
> >
>
> > >(Reprinted from "Memoirs" of President Finney, formerly of Oberlin
> > >College.)
> >
> > Oberlin College? Where's that and of what was he "President"?
> >
> Finney was President of Oberlin College, a small liberal arts
> college in Oberlin, Ohio, which, at one point in the early 80's
> had the worst team in college football, setting a record for
> futility on the gridiron only surpassed by Columbia University
> a few years later.
>
> More info on Finney here:
> http://www.oberlin.edu/~EOG/images/CharlesGrandisonFinney.html
Richard Vizzutti
Pedrotti) wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:56:39 -0800, ri...@aisl.bc.ca (Richard Vizzutti)
>wrote:
>
>[Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American"
>bill????
>
>Richard,
>
>Simple. It's not a Masonic symbol. There are no Egyptian Masonic
>symbols. And even if it were Masonic, what would be un-American about
>it anyway? The US is the only country with a fairly effective
>separation of church and state in place, a Masonic principle. He has
>smiled upon this undertaking, a new order of government.
>
>Peter Pedrotti, PM
>
So Masons have nothing to do with Pyramids or all seeing eyes?
-Rick-
>[-Rick-
>[
>[
>[In article
>[<8FF7E0F37146C892.6B483A54...@lp.airnews.net>,
>["Thomas Hooker" <mas...@airmail.net> wrote:
>[
>[>There's no Masonic symbol on the back of the dollar bill.
>[>
>[>Thomas Hooker
>[>Louis Priester #1150, Vickery #1351, Chalk Mt #894, Texas.
>[>
>[>
>[>Richard Vizzutti <ri...@aisl.bc.ca> wrote in message
>[>news:rick-17089...@dial166.aisl.bc.ca...
>[> Exuse me. But the Masonic symbol on the back of the one dollar is
>full of
>[>thirteens. Yes? No?
--
C R
America. Who can definitively say that the pyramid on the US currency is
Egyptian and not Central American or even if it has to do with either???
Pyramids that were built hundreds/thousands of years ago have been around a
looooong time. Doesn't it make sense that the pyramid symbol might just mean
somethignabout "strength" or "longevity" ???
-Charles
Richard Vizzutti wrote:
> Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American" bill????
>
> -Rick-
Bill Maddox
ON FREEMASONRY says:
The "All-Seeing Eye" is well known as a Masonic symbol for God. The
psalmist writes, "The eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him" (Ps. 33:18,
NASB). Proverbs 15:3 (NASB) states, "The eyes of the Lord [YHWH] are in
every place, Watching the evil and the good." This reminds the Mason that
his actions do not go unnoticed by God. Masonry critics remind us that the
All-Seeing Eye was also the Egyptian symbol for Osiris. Some Masons cite
this use of the symbol, but others cite the biblical foundation of the
All-Seeing Eye. It is uncertain when the All-Seeing Eye became a Masonic
symbol. The meaning behind the All-Seeing Eye is analogous to the rainbow
today. Followers of the New Age Movement have begun using the rainbow as
one of their symbols. The Bible also points to the rainbow as a sign of
God's covenant with Noah after the flood (Gen. 9:8-17). Symbols can mean
different things to different people.
....In the Masonic ritual, a sword is pointed toward a candidate's
bared heart. Masons believe this part of the ritual reminds the candidate
that justice will come, even though our thoughts and actions may be hidden
from our fellowman. The Monitor of the Grand Lodge of Texas reminds the
Master Mason that the sword:
. . . demonstrates that justice will sooner or later overtake us; and
although our thoughts, words and actions may be hidden from the eyes of
man, yet that ALL-SEEING EYE . . . pervades the inmost recesses of the
human heart, and will reward us according to our merits.
is a symbol of God's judgment against His enemies. Masons specifically
refer to Simeon's prophecy in Luke 2:33-35 as key in their use of the
sword.
However, the pyramid (which is how I would have primarily interpreted your
"<sic> Egyption symbol", is not used in Blue Lodge, York Rite, or (to the
best of my memory) even the Shrine.
Might try reading http://thelonious.mit.edu/Masonry/Essays/eyepyr.html
Now, Rich, a question for you -
Why is it so important to you to show this as a Masonic symbol?
Bill Maddox
Richard Vizzutti wrote:
> In article <37bad389...@news.slip.net>, pedr...@slip.net (Peter
> Pedrotti) wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:56:39 -0800, ri...@aisl.bc.ca (Richard Vizzutti)
> >wrote:
> >
> >[Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American"
> >bill????
> >
> >Richard,
> >
> >Simple. It's not a Masonic symbol. There are no Egyptian Masonic
> >symbols. And even if it were Masonic, what would be un-American about
> >it anyway? The US is the only country with a fairly effective
> >separation of church and state in place, a Masonic principle. He has
> >smiled upon this undertaking, a new order of government.
> >
> >Peter Pedrotti, PM
> >
>
> So Masons have nothing to do with Pyramids or all seeing eyes?
> -Rick-
--
"Stop the Spam" Boycott - Vote your pocketbook.
e-buy sellers have found an active market in the usenet. Other sales sites
have specific rules against such spamming. Write sug...@ebay.com. Ask
that they add such a rule and enforce it.
Ted Berry
ri...@aisl.bc.ca (Richard Vizzutti) wrote:
> So Masons have nothing to do with Pyramids or all seeing eyes?
> -Rick-
These items are not included within the Blue Lodge, at least not in the
jurisdiction with which I am familiar.
However, outside of some conspiracy motif, have you honestly considered
what the symbol might mean?
For my Masonic Brethren, I would suggest to you that the symbolism can
be thought of very similarly to the symbolism of the apron or the 47th
Problem of Euclid.
Eureka! Now where did I put that hecatomb?
KIV11
>Michigan wears Masonic Blue
So that's why my son goes there? Never made the connection with the colors. My
only Michigan color is green, representing all the money I send them each year.
I guess it's the dues I've gotta pay for the Michigan stickers on our cars.
Lets hope that the record against Ohio state stays as bad as usual for Ohio.
Go Blue!
W.'. George F. Kivowitz, 32'
Guiding Light-Olympia Lodge #808
1st Nassau District (Long Island)
Valley of Rockville Centre, NY
Freeport Chapter 302 RAM
Adjutant - Mort Weitman Post #50 Masonic War Veterans
Grand Lodge F&AM, State of NY
Richard Vizzutti
it mean to Americans? Why is it there? What does it mean? What gropup had
it placed there? It's is not a Christian symbol, so what is it? -Rick-
In article <37bae37b...@news.swbell.net>, br_...@pacbell.net (Eugene
Goldman.·.) wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:47:28 -0800, ri...@aisl.bc.ca (Richard Vizzutti)
>wrote:
>
--
Jonathan Norburg
>
> Brother Charles wrote:
>
> >Michigan wears Masonic Blue
>
> So that's why my son goes there? Never made the connection with the colors. My
> only Michigan color is green, representing all the money I send them each year.
> I guess it's the dues I've gotta pay for the Michigan stickers on our cars.
> Lets hope that the record against Ohio state stays as bad as usual for Ohio.
> Go Blue!
>
Of course, I'm becoming rather fond of Minnesota's maroon and gold, or is
that Luciferian red and hellish gold.
Mortal Truth
"News RoadRunner" <char...@coluSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
>You, Kansan, obviously do not think that religion is important since
>you refuse to answer the post I put up a few days ago, and
>specifically the point:
<snip>
> -Charles K. Reed
Charles,
Perhaps he has added you to his kill files, so you can ask the same
question until doomsday <HE WON'T HEAR YOU>.
MT
Dr. Roger M. Firestone
Richard Vizzutti <ri...@aisl.bc.ca> wrote:
>Then what is it? Why is their an Egyption symbol on an "American" bill????
Because George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Paul Revere, Thomas
Jefferson, John Adams, Gouverneur Morris, and all those other guys who
founded America really _were_ ancient Egyptians. George Washington's
birthday wasn't really in 1732 (1 + 7 + 3 + 2 = 13) but thousands of
years earlier. All those guys were hiding inside mummy cases under the
Pyramids in Egypt until the secret signal was given ("Free beer in the
New Atlantis!") was given, when they arose from their tombs, flew on
broomsticks across the Atlantic Ocean, and seized power in the new
world, forcing the original 278 colonies to be re-organized into 13, and
completely destroying all the documents which tell the truth about this
heinous conspiracy by Egyptian mummies, culminating in a movie ("The
Mummy") which makes the whole idea of mummies coming to life so
ridiculous that no one can believe the truth.
Next time: An explanation of why a UFO alien (you just think it's Queen
Elizabeth) is on British money... (And that Irish harp is really an
antenna for receiving signals from space aliens. And...)
Dr. Roger M. Firestone
News RoadRunner <char...@coluNOSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
>Quoted from KJV Bible, the number of disciples was 12... Matthew 10:1-4...
> 1 And he called to him his twelve disciples, and gave them
> authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every
> disease and infirmity.
> 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon,
> who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
> Zebedee, and John his brother;
> 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector;
> James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
> 4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
OK. Jesus had 12 disciples. Adding Jesus himself, that makes
THIRTEEN. Proves that they were all Freemasons... (Kansan1225 makes a
big deal about how "CLuMs" conceal their names, which is why Kansan1225
likes to call the President "Billy Blythe." I'm waiting for him to
explain that guy named "Simon, who is called Peter." More proof that
they were Freemasons.) And you can see how they were referred to as
"his brother." Obviously all Freemasons. QED.
Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH
Dr. Roger M. Firestone
Richard Vizzutti <ri...@aisl.bc.ca> wrote:
>So if the dollar symbol is not Masonic, what does it represent? What does
>it mean to Americans? Why is it there? What does it mean? What gropup had
>it placed there? It's is not a Christian symbol, so what is it? -Rick-
An official committee of the US Government was created during the early
Federal period with the assignment of creating a Great Seal of the
United States. It is the Great Seal which appears on the back of the
dollar bill.
The presence of the number 13 in several places alludes to the original
13 states. The olive branch denotes peace; the arrows denote strength
to preserve the peace. The eagle denotes national sovereignty, heroism,
and other valorous characteristics. So much for the obverse.
The reverse of the seal has an unfinished pyramid, denoting the work of
building a nation is never complete (some other construction might have
been used, but it was not clear how the other choices might not be
misinterpreted as something in a state of decay or destruction). The
all-seeing eye is the eye of Divine Providence (many Biblical and
derivative references--"no sparrow shall fall" etc.). "Annuit Coeptis"
means "he has favored our undertaking"--a reflection that Divine
Providence preserved the American polity in its first trials. "Novus
Ordo Seclorum" means "a new order of the ages"--denoting that the
American system of a republic with a separation of powers was unique and
not before seen in history (nor has any government been created like it
since; most democracies are parliamentary republics or constitutional
monarchies with a parliamentary system). The Roman numerals for 1776
denote the year of independence of the United States.
It would be inappropriate to place a Christian symbol on the dollar
bill. The United States Constitution prohibits the recognition or
establishment of a particular religion by the government.
The choice of the Great Seal for the design on the reverse of the dollar
bill was made by the Treasury Department. I don't know when; quite some
time back. The same people who put the White House on the back of the
$20, the Treasury Building on the back of the $10, the Lincoln Memorial
on the back of the $5, and so on. None of those is a Christian symbol,
either.
If you really want to live in a country with an established Christian
religion, you could try England. You say you're not an Episcopalian?
Keep looking...
Dr. Roger M. Firestone
Jonathan Norburg <jnor...@visi.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Of course, I'm becoming rather fond of Minnesota's maroon and gold, or is
Ski-u-mah! Rah!
Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH
member (paid-up for life), Ancient Landmark Lodge #5, AF&AM of Minn., St. Paul
Eugene Goldman.·.
<char...@coluNOSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
*Quoted from KJV Bible, the number of disciples was 12... Matthew 10:1-4...
* 1 And he called to him his twelve disciples, and gave them
* authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every
* disease and infirmity.
* 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon,
* who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
* Zebedee, and John his brother;
* 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector;
* James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
* 4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Simon was Canadian?
Jonathan Norburg
>
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:11:20 -0400, "News RoadRunner"
> <char...@coluNOSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> *Quoted from KJV Bible, the number of disciples was 12... Matthew 10:1-4...
> * 1 And he called to him his twelve disciples, and gave them
> * authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every
> * disease and infirmity.
> * 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon,
> * who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
> * Zebedee, and John his brother;
> * 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector;
> * James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
> * 4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
>
> Simon was Canadian?
>
years back. Did pretty well, too. He took me out 20-7, 20-13
and showed a few rocketjump moves I didn't think were possible.
Dude went freestyle all over my ass once he got quad in that
first match. I got a few good frags in after snagging the
rocket launcher when I telefragged him in the second match, but
but he only needed a couple to finish out.
Man, the dude was a rock!
C R
I have already proven that Kansan is not an Orthodox Christian as he seems to
have claimed, and I was giving Kansan an opening... to use his numerology to
show that Jesus plus his disciples equals 13 and thus prove that Jesus was a
Mason and, thus, Satan. I was then going to argue that Christ could not in
himself be the Anti-Christ, as that would be an oxymoron. That would thus
prove that neither can or could exist... which is false, as I believe in Jesus
(Presbyterian here). Thus, the number 13 could not have any significant
meanign whatsoever. Thus, disproving Kansan's logic. Thus disproving Kansan.
-Charles K. Reed, MM
"Dr. Roger M. Firestone" wrote:
> In article <nnqu3.6907$TM2.169458@viper>,
> News RoadRunner <char...@coluNOSPAMPLEASEmbus.rr.com> wrote:
> >Quoted from KJV Bible, the number of disciples was 12... Matthew 10:1-4...
> > 1 And he called to him his twelve disciples, and gave them
> > authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every
> > disease and infirmity.
> > 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon,
> > who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
> > Zebedee, and John his brother;
> > 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector;
> > James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
> > 4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
>
> OK. Jesus had 12 disciples. Adding Jesus himself, that makes
> THIRTEEN. Proves that they were all Freemasons... (Kansan1225 makes a
> big deal about how "CLuMs" conceal their names, which is why Kansan1225
> likes to call the President "Billy Blythe." I'm waiting for him to
> explain that guy named "Simon, who is called Peter." More proof that
> they were Freemasons.) And you can see how they were referred to as
> "his brother." Obviously all Freemasons. QED.
>
joeschmu...@kill.spamford.wallace.now
>That would thus
>prove that neither can or could exist... which is false, as I believe in Jesus
>(Presbyterian here). Thus, the number 13 could not have any significant
>meanign whatsoever. Thus, disproving Kansan's logic. Thus disproving Kansan.
Okay. I'll see you and raise you one Babel Fish;
''Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so
mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have
chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
''The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I exist,'says
God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
''`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not
have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own
arguments, you don't. QED.'
''`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a
puff of logic.
''`Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black
is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."
----------------------------------------------
One World; One Web; One Program. -- Microsoft
Ein Volk; Ein Reich; Ein Fuhrer. -- Hitler
----------------------------------------------
Eugene Goldman.·.
joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW wrote:
*Okay. I'll see you and raise you one Babel Fish;
I'll see your fish, and raise you two digital watches.
News RoadRunner
There is no counter to the Babel Fish logic of Douglas Adams!!! Good one Joe!
I might have to go read the Hitchikers trilogy again this weekend, it has been a
while... and Lord knows those are dogeared books on my shelf from being read so
many times!
Douglas Adams, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, L. Ron Hubbard (pre-dianetics), Robert
Ludlum, J.R.R Tolkien, Piers Anthony... I am a packrat when it comes to books.
-Charles
<joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW> wrote in message
news:37bb1c1d...@nntp.cts.com...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:01:43 -0500, C R <IDo...@Like.Spam> wrote:
>
> >That would thus
> >prove that neither can or could exist... which is false, as I believe in
Jesus
> >(Presbyterian here). Thus, the number 13 could not have any significant
> >meanign whatsoever. Thus, disproving Kansan's logic. Thus disproving
Kansan.
>
> Okay. I'll see you and raise you one Babel Fish;
>
David Catten
Goldman.·.) wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:51:07 GMT,
> joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW wrote:
>
> *Okay. I'll see you and raise you one Babel Fish;
>
> I'll see your fish, and raise you two digital watches.
>
I think you ought to know, I'm feeling very depressed
David Catten
God I hate those self satisfied doors
--
"One of the advantages of being disorderly
is that one is always making exciting discoveries"
A.A. Milne
P.J.
"Eugene Goldman.·." wrote:
>
> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:51:07 GMT,
> joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW wrote:
>
> *Okay. I'll see you and raise you one Babel Fish;
>
> I'll see your fish, and raise you two digital watches.
>
> |O| Be well. Travel with a light heart.
> Who said that?
>
> Brother Gene .*.
> http://www.calodges.org/no442
> http://www.blackmountainlodge.net
> http://www.freemason.org
> MBBFMN #387
> And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
>
> Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
> Any Mason may use the contents for any valid Masonic purpose, permission may be granted to others upon request.
I'll see your two digital watches, raise you one Chesterfield couch, and
I call.
F&S,
Paul Julian Gould EA
Home Lodge #721 F&AM
Van Nuys, California, USA
--
=============================
Per Fimos Tauroram Ad Gloriam
=============================
P.J.
You oughta' seem MY library!
My wife thinks she's getting crowded out of a 3-bedroom house (she'
probably right --- she usually is!) (yes, dear, I just made some husband
points ---- now go back and siddown!)
Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Silverberg, Arthur Clarke, Douglas Adams, Asimov,
Piers Anthony, William Gibson and on and on....
Plus my library of religious history (yes dear.... let's put up another
bookcase), general fiction, general non-fiction, mystery, history.....
But Doug Adams has got to be my favorite! (ever read "The Deeper
Meaning of Liff?)
Best,
F&S,
Paul Julian Gould EA
Home Lodge #721 F&AM
Van Nuys, California, USA
News RoadRunner wrote:
>
> ROFLMAO!!!
>
> There is no counter to the Babel Fish logic of Douglas Adams!!! Good one Joe!
> I might have to go read the Hitchikers trilogy again this weekend, it has been a
> while... and Lord knows those are dogeared books on my shelf from being read so
> many times!
>
> Douglas Adams, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, L. Ron Hubbard (pre-dianetics), Robert
> Ludlum, J.R.R Tolkien, Piers Anthony... I am a packrat when it comes to books.
>
> -Charles
>
> <joeschmu...@KILL.SPAMFORD.WALLACE.NOW> wrote in message
> news:37bb1c1d...@nntp.cts.com...
> > On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:01:43 -0500, C R <IDo...@Like.Spam> wrote:
> >
> > >That would thus
> > >prove that neither can or could exist... which is false, as I believe in
> Jesus
> > >(Presbyterian here). Thus, the number 13 could not have any significant
> > >meanign whatsoever. Thus, disproving Kansan's logic. Thus disproving
> Kansan.
> >
> > Okay. I'll see you and raise you one Babel Fish;
> >
> > ''Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so
> > mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers
> have
> > chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
> >
> > ''The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I exist,'says
> > God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
> >
> > ''`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not
> > have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own
> > arguments, you don't. QED.'
> >
> > ''`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a
> > puff of logic.
> >
> > ''`Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black
> > is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > One World; One Web; One Program. -- Microsoft
> >
> > Ein Volk; Ein Reich; Ein Fuhrer. -- Hitler
> > ----------------------------------------------
--
Christopher Harris
...
On Independence Day, 1776 a committee was created to design a seal for the new
American nation. The committee's members were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas
Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simitiere as artist and consultant.'
Of the four men involved, only Benjamin Franklin was a Mason, and he
contributed nothing of a Masonic nature to the committee's proposed design for
a seal.
Du Simitiere, the committee's consultant and a non-Mason, contributed several
major design features that made their way into the ultimate design of the seal:
the shield, E Pluribus Unum, MDCCLXXVI, and the eye of providence in a
triangle."2 The eye of providence on the seal thus can be traced, not to the
Masons, but to a non-Mason consultant to the committee.
~The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an omniscient
Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. Du Simitiere, who
suggested using the symbol, collected art books and was familiar with the
artistic and ornamental devices used in Renaissance art.,, This was the same
cultural iconography that eventually led Masons to add the all-seeing eye to
their symbols.
INTERPRETING THE SYMBOL
The 'Remarks and Explanations" of Thomson and Barton are the only explanation
of the symbols' meaning. Despite what anti-Masons may believe, there's no
reason to doubt the interpretation accepted by the Congress.
The Pyramid signified Strength and Duration: The Eye over it & the Motto
allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favor of the American
cause.6
The committees and consultants who designed the great Seal of the United States
contained only one Mason, Benjamin Franklin. The only possib/y Masonic design
element among the very many on the seal is the eye of providence, and the
interpretation of it by the designers is different from that used by Masons.
The eye on the seal represents an active intervention of God in the affairs of
men, while the Masonic symbol stands for a passive awareness by God of the
activities of men.
The first 'Official" use and definition of the allseeing eye as a Masonic
symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemasons Monitor of Thomas Smith
Webb-14 years after Congress adopted the design for the seal. Here's how Webb
explains the symbol.
"And although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the eyes of
man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon and Stars obey, and under
whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades
the inmost recesses of the human heart, and will reward us according to our
merits."7
THE EYE IN THE PYRAMID
Besides the subtly different interpretations of the symbol, it is notable that
Webb did not describe the eye as being in a triangle. Jeremy Ladd Cross
published The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor in 1819, essentially
an illustrated version of Webb's Monitor. In this first "official" depiction of
Webb's symbol, Cross had illustrator Amos Doolittle depict the eye surrounded
by a semicircular glory.'
The all-seeing eye thus appears to be a rather recent addition to Masonic
symbolism. It is not found in any of the Gothic Constitutions, written from
about 1390 to 1730. The eye~sometimes in a triangle, sometimes in clouds, but
nearly always surrounded by a glory~was a popular Masonic decorative device in
the latter half of the 18th century. Its use as a design element seems to have
been an artistic representation of the omniscience of God, rather than some
generally accepted Masonic symbol.
Its meaning in all cases, however, was that commonly given it by society at
large~a reminder of the constant presence of God. For example, in 1614 the
frontispiece of The History of the World by Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a
cloud labeled '~Providentia" overlooking a globe. It has not been suggested
that Raleigh' 5 History is a Masonic document despite the use of the all-seeing
eye
The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of the 17th
and 18th centuries~ When placed in a triangle, the eye went beyond a general
representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian statement It was during this
period that Masonic ritual and symbolism evolved; and it is not surprising that
many symbols common to and understood by the general society made their way
into Masonic ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the triangle because of the
frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three original
grand masters, three principal officers, and so on. Eventually the all-seeing
eye came to be used officially by Masons as a symbol for God, but this happened
towards the end of the eighteenth century, after congress had adopted the seal.
A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a Masonic
symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except perhaps
permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an
unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic, icon, and must be
interpreted as its designers intended. It has no Masonic context.
NOTES
Robert Hieronimus, America's Secret Destiny (Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books,
1989), p.48.
2. Patterson and Dougall in Hieronimus, p.48.
3. Hieronimus, p.81.
4. Hieronimus, p.51.
5. Hieronimus, p.57.
6. ~ Thomas and W. Barton in Rieronimus,
p.54.
7. Thomas Smith Webb, The Freemasons
Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry (Salem,
Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821), p.66.
6. Jeremy Ladd Cross, The True Masonic Chart
or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. (New Haven,
Conn.: By the Author, 1824), plate 22.
REFERENCES
Cross, Jeremy Ladd. The True Masonic Chart
or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. New Raven,
Conn.: By the Author, 1824.
Hieronimus, Robert. America '5 Secret Destiny.
Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books, 1989.
Webb, Thomas Smith. The Freemasons Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry. Salem,
Mass.:
Cushing and Appleton, 1821.
Submitted by Chris Harris, MPS
McDonald Lodge # 324 AF & AM Independence, Missouri
(S.W. elect & Education Officer)
York Rite RAM RSM KT; York Rite College; 32° AASR (SJ); Order of True Kindred,
Shrine; Highlander Clan # 1. Hillbilly Clan # 124; O.R.C.O.M.O.T. Shrine Club.
Joe Schmuckatelli
(Kansan1225) writes:
:>Hide in plain sight.
..also known as the Bugblatter Beast of Traal defense, which works thusly:
cover your eyes. If you can't see them, they can't see you.
-----------------------------------------------
William
<jhi...@ma.ultranet.com> writes
>On 16 Aug 1999 20:36:43 GMT, kansa...@aol.com (Kansan1225) wrote:
>
>>>Can't find anything from THIS century, Willie?
>
>> Jack, do you mean to say that the Masonic lies of the 20th century are
>>different from the Masonic lies of the 19th century?
>
>Hey there, Kansan --
>
>Let's take a totally hypothetical situation. Let's assume that (for
>example) it could be proved, completely and beyond any doubt, that
>everything that you anti-Masons have written and charged and
>speculated about the William Morgan affair were the absolute truth.
>
>It's kind of a stretch, I know, but hang with me for a minute.
?
>
>If you could prove (by solid fact, now, not by numerology or phases of
>the Moon or non-existent newspaper stories) that the Morgan affair, as
>related by anti-Masons, were the truth, it could not possibly make any
>difference, for the following reasons:
>
>first, we do not claim, we cannot claim, that every Freemason is a
>"good" man;
TRUTH AT LAST!
>there have been many who should have never been accepted
>in the first place,
TRUTH AGAIN, MAYBE YOU WILL YET REALLY SEE THE LIGHT?
>
>but sometimes they slip by.
"SLIP" IS THAT REALLY THE RIGHT WORD?
>I know of an
>individual who was recently suspended from his lodge who,
I HOPE THAT THEY DID NOT FIRST CUT HIS THROAT BEFORE SUSPENDING HIM?
>it seems,
>will be a long-term guest of one of the state's stone hotels. You
>will understand, I hope, that I will not give details.
I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT HIS MASON PRISON OFFICERS WILL LOOK AFTER HIM WHILE
HE IS IN THERE. HOPE THE ROPE BURN DOES NOT CAUSE HIM TOO MANY PROBLEMS.
>
>second, ONE incident in almost three hundred years is not an
>indictment, it is a testimony. Consider the hundreds of thousands
>(or - worldwide - millions) of men who have been Masons,
I BOTH THINK ABOUT, AND PITY THEM.
A RELATIVE OF MINE WAS ONE AND THERE WAS NO FINER HOUSES BUILT THAN
THOSE HE BUILT. THE ONLY LODGE HE WAS EVER IN WAS ONE'S WHERE THEY COST
NO MORE THAN TWO AND SIXPENCE A NIGHT, (SOMETIMES WITH AN EVENING MEAL
THROWN IN) AND HE ONLY WENT INTO THOSE LODGES WHEN IT WAS NECESSARY FOR
HIM TO WORK AWAY FROM HOME. HE NEVER WENT INTO A LODGE WHILE HE WORKED
NEAR HIS HOME.
>and place
>them on one side of the scale, and the three men who were charged with
>murdering Captain Morgan on the other. Do the math. I can live
>with the ratio.
MATHS ARE NOT INVOLVED HERE, JUST PLAIN FACTS OF LIFE, I DON'T THINK
THAT THERE IS A MATHEMATICAL FORMULAE FOR THAT.
>
>third, organizations DO change over the course of years.
I DO BELIEVE FREEMASONRY DID ORIGINALLY START OUT WITH GOOD INTENTS,
JUST LOOK AT HOW THEY HAVE NOW CHANGED.
> The Catholic
>Church that I grew up in bears darned little resemblance to today. I
>simply do not know what Masonry was like in Doctor Finney's lodge,
>during the time he was a member, but I DO know what it is like here
>and now. From what I know of Masonic practices NOW, Doctor Finney
>sounds like a liar, as well as forsworn of a solemn obligation made,
>before God, with his hands on a Bible.
>
>Is Finney, in his essay, a liar? I have no idea. I simply do not
>know what happened in his lodge, one hundred and fifty years ago, nor
>do I care. The present and the future are important to me; what is
>past is prologue.
>
FROM THE PAST THERE IS A LOT TO LEARN, THE PAST IS IN FACT PART OF THE
LEARNING STAGE, THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT OF THAT.
>This was the proximate cause of my question to Wonderful Willie:
>Can't you find anything in THIS century to complain about? I mean,
>even a rehash of the tired old P-2 scandal is preferable to listening
>AGAIN and AGAIN to the speculations about what happened to Morgan, or
>listening to Doctor Finney exult and congratulate himself on breaking
>his solemn obligation.
>
>What else have you got?
>
WHAT THERE IS, IS MORE THAN SUFFICIENT.
>
>
>Jack Hickey, MM
>Senior Deacon (Junior Warden-Elect)
>Chairman, Masonic Awareness Committee
>Isaiah Thomas Lodge
>Worcester MA
>www.masslodges.org
>
>.
--
William
j Dolan
jim MM
White River #90
Bethel, Vt.