Any Knights of Pythias?
Patrick Labbe
Are there any K of P on this nesgroup? I am taking initiation into this
faternal org later this month. Any Knights out there I would love to talk.
Patrick C. Labbe MPS
Blue Lodge #142 AFM, Dillon SC
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member The Philalethes Society
member The Scottish Rite Research Society
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WWW Site:
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T.Morgenthaler
Hi Patrick,
As you may have remembered, I asked the group for any information
regarding the K of P some time ago. My blue lodge is in Central City,
Colorado, a small mining town 30 miles west of Denver in the Rocky
Mountians. There is a building in town with the words, Knights of
Pythias painted on it. None of our local people seem to be able to find
out anything about them. I did recieve a posting that they were very
few and far between nowadays, and that they originated as an insurance
group for miners and other workmen that were considered by the dangers
of their vocations, un-insurable. One other fellow wrote and said that
his mother was K of P and that they were still active in some places in
the country, and would say little else.
My interest in the K of P is simply to learn if they called their
groups "Commanderies". I attended a Commandery of Knights Templar
meeting in Bremerton, Washington one evening and was introduced as
Ted Morgenthaler of Central City Commandery No. 2 in Central City, Co.
After the conclave was over, a Sir Knight approached me with a sword
that was inscribed, Central City Commandery #39, Central City,
Colorado. I have been trying to figure out what that is all about
since.
There never was any other Commanderies of Knights Templar in Central
City other than mine, Central #2, the second Commandery to recieve
their charter.
If you ever find out about Central City #39 in Central City, Colorado,
I would be most grateful.
Sincerely and fraternly,
Ted Morgenthaler
>
In <4mdk0d$1m...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> BVL...@prodigy.com (Patrick
David I. Roller
Back when I was in grad school, the university library had a book on
Fraternalism which had an article on K of P. It was founded around the
Civil War, and began to fade out in the 1980's.
It had 3 degrees and merged giving them into 1 night in the 70's.
f
From what I recall it was headquartered on the East Coast,
Jim Bennie
T.Morgenthaler (tmo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> I attended a Commandery of Knights Templar
> meeting in Bremerton, Washington one evening and was introduced as
> Ted Morgenthaler of Central City Commandery No. 2 in Central City, Co.
> After the conclave was over, a Sir Knight approached me with a sword
> that was inscribed, Central City Commandery #39, Central City,
> Colorado. I have been trying to figure out what that is all about
> since.
> There never was any other Commanderies of Knights Templar in Central
> City other than mine, Central #2, the second Commandery to recieve
> their charter.
> If you ever find out about Central City #39 in Central City, Colorado,
> I would be most grateful.
> Sincerely and fraternly,
> Ted Morgenthaler
Ted, have you perhaps overlooked the obvious? Was your Commandery under
a different Grand Commandery at one time, and thus had a higher number?
A good example locally would be in the Royal Arch, where the first
Chapters were under Grand Chapter of Canada before we broke away to form
a Grand Chapter of B.C. Thus Vancouver Chapter No. 2 was originally
Vancouver Chapter No. 98 under the original charter from G.C.C.
Jim Bennie KT
Columbia Preceptory No. 34
Vancouver
Sovereign Great Priory of Canada
--
Jay D. Marksheid
On May 04, 1996 00:17:10 in article <Re: Any Knights of Pythias?>,
'tmo...@ix.netcom.com(T.Morgenthaler )' wrote:
>As you may have remembered, I asked the group for any information
>regarding the K of P some time ago. My blue lodge is in Central City,
Colorado, a small mining town 30 miles west of Denver in the Rocky
Mountians. There is a building in town with the words, Knights of Pythias
painted on it. None of our local people seem to be able to find out
anything about them. I did recieve a posting that they were very few and
far between nowadays, and that they originated as an insurance
>group for miners and other workmen that were considered by the dangers of
their vocations, un-insurable. One other fellow wrote and said that his
mother was K of P and that they were still active in some places in the
country, and would say little else.
Ted
My dad was a Knight of Pythias many years ago in Brooklyn, New York. He
joined this group because at that time, Masonic Lodges that accepted Jews
were very rare. He doesn't say much about what went on in meetings,
apparently they also took obligations of secrecy. He has told me that much
of what I have described to him about Masonry is reflected in the KofP.
They also have a degree system and hold to many of the truths we as Masons
try to live by. I don't know about the fellow who said his mother was a
KofP, according to my dad, like the Masons, KofP was an all male
organization.
He also inferred that up here in the northeast, most KofP members were
Jewish, being barred from the other fraternal organizations. However, an
uncle of mine, now passed away, used to travel extensively, 30 years or so
ago in the south and often visited KofP Lodges there which were usually all
Christian.
POTS
Jay D. Marksheid
T.Morgenthaler
In <4mqq1u$n...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com> jay...@nyc.pipeline.com(Jay
anti-semitism with masonry but for certain the fraternity has changed a
lot over the years. Inasmuch as women may not have been the regulation
in your father's lodge, we are all learning now that they have been a
part of masonry for a lot longer than we had guessed or might have
admitted to just a few years ago.
S & F,
Ted
SLZ
On 10 May 1996 12:46:32 GMT, tmo...@ix.netcom.com(T.Morgenthaler )
wrote:
I too have relatives and acquantainces (sp?) who are pythians. My
impressions were that (here in NY at least) Pythians were
predominately jewish. I had always assumed it was similar to Knights
of Columbus who were all (predominately?) catholic.
I do not know if here the lodges were necessarily anti-semitic, or
just perceived that way. My lodge was founded in the 1850's, and has
had (at least for some time) a significant jewish membership.
Another thing I know about Pythians is that they buy burial plots for
their membership, something masons do not do.
Brother Seth Zolot
Arcana Lodge # 246 F&AM (NYC)
Mike Retzlaff
On May 16th Seth Zolot wrote:
>Another thing I know about Pythians is that they buy burial plots for
>their membership, something masons do not do.
>Brother Seth Zolot
>Arcana Lodge # 246 F&AM (NYC)
you for a tour of the Masonic Cemetary here. Most of our local lodges have
plots and regularly inter their brethren; only if deceased :) and usually
in case of financial distress of the family.
Many of the seemingly "traditional" rules are really a matter of custom in
a particular area. Another is the posting of Masonic notices with a S&Q in
the obituary page of the newspaper. Some areas do it and some don't.
Frat,
Mike Retzlaff, P.M.
Leonard Jones
> their membership, something masons do not do.
> Brother Seth Zolot
> Arcana Lodge # 246 F&AM (NYC)
Not sure where you get the idea that the KofP were primarily Jewish. My
dad was a KofP as well as a Mason. And he wasn't Jewish. Suspect that
membership of this fraternal order varied according to the locale and to
the religious and other cultural characteristics of the older lodge
members. Most of the KofP lodges in this part of the country (Rocky Mtn
Area) appear to have died out... along with the Odd Fellows, the Royal
Neighbors ofAmerica and a lot of others.
My dad left some KofP paraphenalia to me when he died - in a box with his
Masonic jewelry, etc. Appears that the KofP must have utilized costumes
similar to Knights Templar.
fraternally
leonard jones
T.Morgenthaler
In <4nf9ki$5...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> mic...@usa.pipeline.com(Mike
Retzlaff) writes:
>
>On May 16th Seth Zolot wrote:
>
>
>>their membership, something masons do not do.
>>Brother Seth Zolot
>>Arcana Lodge # 246 F&AM (NYC)
>
>If you are ever in the City of New Orleans, give me a call and I'll
take
>you for a tour of the Masonic Cemetary here. Most of our local lodges
have
>plots and regularly inter their brethren; only if deceased :) and
usually
>in case of financial distress of the family.
>
>Many of the seemingly "traditional" rules are really a matter of
custom in
>a particular area. Another is the posting of Masonic notices with a
S&Q in
>the obituary page of the newspaper. Some areas do it and some don't.
>
> Frat,
> Mike Retzlaff, P.M.
>
Mike, I am sure that what bother Seth is referring to is a matter of
general proceedure. The Masonic fraternity does not as a matter of
course, give out burial plans in the way some fraternites do. In the
matter of your local lodge and Cemetery, we have a local masonic
cemetary here in my area where many of the brethern are buried. Some of
them could pay for the burial, some of them could not. We all lie
together, just the same. But that is not a policy of the lodge. I took
a picture of the sign in front of the Cemetery out at Crescent City,
California. It says, Masonic, IOOF, Catholic, Veterans and the single
word, "Cemetery". My first thoughts were, "we couldn't live together.."
at least we......
Regards, Ted
Jim Bennie
Mike Retzlaff (mic...@usa.pipeline.com) wrote:
:
: If you are ever in the City of New Orleans, give me a call and I'll take
: you for a tour of the Masonic Cemetary here. Most of our local lodges have
: plots and regularly inter their brethren; only if deceased :) and usually
: in case of financial distress of the family.
:
: Many of the seemingly "traditional" rules are really a matter of custom in
: a particular area. Another is the posting of Masonic notices with a S&Q in
: the obituary page of the newspaper. Some areas do it and some don't.
The same thing applies here. My Lodge has a number of plots in the
local Masonic Cemetary and this entitles us to a delegate to
meetings of the Cemetary board,.
Before there was a Masonic Cemetary, part of the city cemetary
was parceled off over a hundred years ago and there is a Masonic
section (as well as one for the Oddfellows and I think the
Pythians).
The S&Cs can be found in the obits in the dailies here (along
with the Shrine, Grotto and an outdated DeMolay logo). Unfortunately,
not all families of deceased brn. utilise them and it's easy to
miss a death notice of a a member of the Craft (including
prominent ones, such as past Grand Lodge officers).
Jim Bennie
PM Alliance No. 193
Vancouver
SLZ
On 17 May 1996 03:42:52 GMT, tmo...@ix.netcom.com(T.Morgenthaler )
wrote:
>In <4nf9ki$5...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> mic...@usa.pipeline.com(Mike
>Retzlaff) writes:
>>
>>On May 16th Seth Zolot wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Another thing I know about Pythians is that they buy burial plots for
>
>>>their membership, something masons do not do.
>>>Brother Seth Zolot
>>>Arcana Lodge # 246 F&AM (NYC)
>>
>>If you are ever in the City of New Orleans, give me a call and I'll
>take
>>you for a tour of the Masonic Cemetary here. Most of our local lodges
>have
>>plots and regularly inter their brethren; only if deceased :) and
>usually
>>in case of financial distress of the family.
>>
>>Many of the seemingly "traditional" rules are really a matter of
>custom in
>>a particular area. Another is the posting of Masonic notices with a
>S&Q in
>>the obituary page of the newspaper. Some areas do it and some don't.
>>
>> Frat,
>> Mike Retzlaff, P.M.
>
>>
>Mike, I am sure that what bother Seth is referring to is a matter of
>general proceedure. The Masonic fraternity does not as a matter of
>course, give out burial plans in the way some fraternites do. In the
>matter of your local lodge and Cemetery, we have a local masonic
>cemetary here in my area where many of the brethern are buried. Some of
>them could pay for the burial, some of them could not. We all lie
>together, just the same. But that is not a policy of the lodge. I took
>a picture of the sign in front of the Cemetery out at Crescent City,
>California. It says, Masonic, IOOF, Catholic, Veterans and the single
>word, "Cemetery". My first thoughts were, "we couldn't live together.."
>at least we......
>Regards, Ted
Maybe the reason this point struck me is that when I was investigated
it was made very clear that I should not want to join the masons in
order to "get something of material benefit". The burial plot was
specifically mentioned, to compare it to Knights of Pythians who (at
least here in NYC) have a plot for each member.
That thought does not preclude brother masons from choosing to be
buried in the same cemetery.
SLZ
On Thu, 16 May 1996 20:26:59 -0600, Leonard Jones <ldj...@cris.com>
wrote:
>SLZ wrote:
>>
>> On 10 May 1996 12:46:32 GMT, tmo...@ix.netcom.com(T.Morgenthaler )
>> Another thing I know about Pythians is that they buy burial plots for
>> their membership, something masons do not do.
>> Brother Seth Zolot
>> Arcana Lodge # 246 F&AM (NYC)
>
>Not sure where you get the idea that the KofP were primarily Jewish. My
>dad was a KofP as well as a Mason. And he wasn't Jewish. Suspect that
>membership of this fraternal order varied according to the locale and to
>the religious and other cultural characteristics of the older lodge
>members. Most of the KofP lodges in this part of the country (Rocky Mtn
>Area) appear to have died out... along with the Odd Fellows, the Royal
>Neighbors ofAmerica and a lot of others.
>
>My dad left some KofP paraphenalia to me when he died - in a box with his
>Masonic jewelry, etc. Appears that the KofP must have utilized costumes
>similar to Knights Templar.
>
>
>fraternally
>leonard jones
]
As I said, it was my impression, not something I knew as fact.
Everyone that I knew (here in NYC) who was a Pythian was Jewish, and
the Pythian cemetery plots that I knew of were in Jewish cemeteries.
I didn't mean to imply anything else.