Gregory Hall has been too hard on Ray Banana and Motzarella
Wesley Mouch
The office of Wesley M. Mouch
Director, State Science Institute
Washington, D.C.
USA
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Methinks perhaps my good friend and associate (not to mention, future
public relations czar), Gregory Hall, has been a little too hard on
Ray Banana who administers the fine, professionally operated, free
news server Motzarella. I tend to view the animosity as a clash of two
strong personalities. In today's world of easy communication this sort
of thing is bound to occur.
Personally, I happen to like Ray Banana. Why? Because Ray is obviously
a good socialist. I say this because just look at what Ray is doing.
He provides for free a valuable communication service for those who
may not have the means to afford to pay for such a service. I say,
"kudos!"
"From each according to his means, to each according to his need" is
one of the more apt and true statements ever conceived of by the human
intellect. Based upon this truism, Mr. Banana is a paragon of virtue.
I extend the hand of friendship to Mr. Banana as he is obviously a
fellow socialist and the world has great need of more real men of
vision like him. Since he has swallowed his false pride, eaten crow
and graciously reinstated my Motzaball with cheese free account, I
now hold him in high esteem
Sincerely yours,
Wesley Mouch
WMM/gh
Shad O'Shay
"Wesley Mouch" <statescien...@notmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com...
Ray Banana
> Why do you waste our time with this crap?
> "Wesley Mouch" <statescien...@notmail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com...
Comrade Mouch is still practicing the art of faking Motzarella's
headers.
And he still fails to abide by Altopia's TOS. I'm afraid he will soon
lose just another account.
| Path:
| g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news.alt.net!newsfeed.alt.net
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| !nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net
| !newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.albasani.net!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org
| !news.alt.net!not-for-mail!www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
,---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Q: What is your policy on Path: pre-loading?
|
| A: If a customer of Altopia performs Path: pre-loading on their Path:
| lines with valid (or valid looking) site names before "news.alt.net"
| they should end their path-preloading with "news.alt.net", so that it
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| appears twice and it is obvious the post originated at Altopia. An
| exception to this is made for customers who pre-load a site name that
| they own or have permission to use. For example:
|
| Path: ...!news.alt.net!valid_looking_site_name!news.alt.net
`---------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.altopia.com/polfaq.html
Reading, understanding and observing the Terms Of Use of a NSP seems to
be too much of an intellectual challenge to our beloved working class
hero[1].
[1] Keep you doped with religion sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as i can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
(WORKING CLASS HERO by John LENNON)
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.
http://news.motzarella.org
Gregory Hall
"Ray Banana" <ray...@banana.shacknet.nu> wrote in message
news:80prp2k...@banana.shacknet.nu...
PKB, I'm afraid! You seemed to have conveniently overlooked the last part of
the AUP which I quote here: "An exception to this is made for customers who
pre-load a site name that they own or have permission to use."
Surely Mr. Mouch has permission to use his own web page as the exception
quoted. Did you perchance check the validity of the link
www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
So, let's review for the Peanut Gallery:
1) news.alt.net appears twice as required at the beginning and end of the
preloaded path,
2) Mr. Mouch has availed himself of the exception allowed by the rule
3) Mr. Mouch has no control over what appears to the left of the second
news.alt.net so please spare him (and the rest of us) the silly
^^^^^^^^^^^^'s beneath the path from the second news.alt.net to Google.
Google???? Bwaahahahahahha. Is Motzarella so lame that the admin has to go
to Google Groups to check headers in a post?
Phalt_arse, YooHoo! Are you noting this spanking of your hero? ;-) Seems
to me the Mouch man is demonstrably smarter than the BananaBoi.
--
Gregory Hall
Ray Banana
[fake Path: header]
> Surely Mr. Mouch has permission to use his own web page as the exception
> quoted. Did you perchance check the validity of the link
> www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Come back when you have learned the difference between an URL and a host
name. Your incompetence is boring me to tears.
At least you admit that this fake posting was sent from Altopia.
Gregory Hall
> Thus spake "Gregory Hall" <greg...@home.fake>
>
> [fake Path: header]
>> Surely Mr. Mouch has permission to use his own web page as the exception
>> quoted. Did you perchance check the validity of the link
>> www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Come back when you have learned the difference between an URL and a host
> name. Your incompetence is boring me to tears.
I've come back to clue you in. Where does it say in the AUP anything about a
host name? Again, and I quote, "An exception to this is made for customers
who
pre-load a site name that they own or have permission to use." Now, just
what don't you understand about the term "site name?" Is
www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/ not a site name? You know, site as in
web site?
> At least you admit that this fake posting was sent from Altopia.
I admitted no such thing. Who knows from whence Mr. Mouch's post originate?
Seems to me any competent admin who knows how to read a path might easily
reach his own conclusions. For an admin you are, indeed, quite naive. But,
you're capable of learning, I'm sure. Why else would I be attempting to
educate you?
Wesley says you provide a valuable service and are a good, budding socialist
so that's good enough for me.
--
Gregory Hall
Mike
ôf tHΧ pĘ$t ÖR ÐÖ ÝÖú WÃŅT Tô RëmâÎŅ pÃŪt ÖF tHĘ pŪÖßĢĘm?
"Ray Banana" <ray...@banana.shacknet.nu> wrote in message
news:80prp2k...@banana.shacknet.nu...
Ray Banana
>> name. Your incompetence is boring me to tears.
> I've come back to clue you in. Where does it say in the AUP anything about a
> host name? Again, and I quote, "An exception to this is made for customers
> who
> pre-load a site name that they own or have permission to use." Now, just
> what don't you understand about the term "site name?" Is
> www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/ not a site name? You know, site as in
> web site?
The content of the Path: header is defined in a technical standard
called "RFC", in this case it is RFC1036. It is beyond an NSP's
competence to redefine or overrule technical standards and it is also
beyond your intellectual capabilities to even understand what I'm
talking about. Just stop messing around before you hurt yourself.
Gregory Hall
Ha ha hah ahhhahhahahahah! Seems to me, in the recent past, you agreed with
statements to the effect that a news server admin can pick and choose those
rules he wishes to choose in his own TOS or AUP.
Now you are claiming another admin does not have the same rights and
privileges? You seem to be saying that the Altopia admin is ignorant?
Errr, while Wesley has faith in you, I will place my bets on Mr. Caputo any
day when it comes to knowing the workings of Usenet. After all, he is a
professional while you are yet an amateur. Still wet behind the ears!
But, please hang in there. You seem to have some small measure of ability.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
--
Gregory Hall
Mike
> The content of the Path: header is defined in a technical standard
> called "RFC", in this case it is RFC1036. It is beyond an NSP's
> competence to redefine or overrule technical standards and it is also
> beyond your intellectual capabilities to even understand what I'm
> talking about. Just stop messing around before you hurt yourself.
>
From RFC1036, please note the highlighted part:
2.1.6. Path
This line shows the path the message took to reach the current
system. When a system forwards the message, it should add its own
name to the list of systems in the "Path" line. The names may be
separated by any punctuation character or characters (except "."
which is considered part of the hostname). Thus, the following are
valid entries:
cbosgd!mhuxj!mhuxt
cbosgd, mhuxj, mhuxt
@cbosgd.ATT.COM,@mhuxj.ATT.COM,@mhuxt.ATT.COM
teklabs, zehntel, sri-unix@cca!decvax
(The latter path indicates a message that passed through decvax,
cca, sri-unix, zehntel, and teklabs, in that order.) Additional
names should be added from the left. For example, the most recently
added name in the fourth example was teklabs. Letters, digits,
periods and hyphens are considered part of host names; other
punctuation, including blanks, are considered separators.
>>>>>>>>>> Normally, the rightmost name will be the name of the
>>>>>>>>>> originating <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> system. However, it is also permissible to include an extra
>>>>>>>>>> entry <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> on the right, which is the name of the sender. This is for
>>>>>>>>>> upward <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> compatibility with older
>>>>>>>>>> systems.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The "Path" line is not used for replies, and should not be taken as
a mailing address. It is intended to show the route the message
traveled to reach the local host. There are several uses for this
information. One is to monitor USENET routing for performance
reasons. Another is to establish a path to reach new hosts.
Perhaps the most important use is to cut down on redundant USENET
traffic by failing to forward a message to a host that is known to
have already received it. In particular, when host A sends a
message to host B, the "Path" line includes A, so that host B will
not immediately send the message back to host A. The name each host
uses to identify itself should be the same as the name by which its
neighbors know it, in order to make this optimization possible.
A host adds its own name to the front of a path when it receives a
message from another host. Thus, if a message with path "A!X!Y!Z"
is passed from host A to host B, B will add its own name to the path
when it receives the message from A, e.g., "B!A!X!Y!Z". If B then
passes the message on to C, the message sent to C will contain the
path "B!A!X!Y!Z", and when C receives it, C will change it to
"C!B!A!X!Y!Z".
Special upward compatibility note: Since the "From", "Sender", and
"Reply-To" lines are in Internet format, and since many USENET hosts
do not yet have mailers capable of understanding Internet format, it
would break the reply capability to completely sever the connection
between the "Path" header and the reply function. It is recognized
that the path is not always a valid reply string in older
implementations, and no requirement to fix this problem is placed on
implementations. However, the existing convention of placing the
host name and an "!" at the front of the path, and of starting the
path with the host name, an "!", and the user name, should be
maintained when possible.
What were you saying about intellectual capabilities? Don't get hurt trying
to think too hard.
Gregory Hall
I just reviewed RFC1036 and could not help noticing the following statement:
" Normally, the rightmost name will be the name of the originating
system. However, it is also permissible to include an extra entry
on the right, which is the name of the sender. This is for upward
compatibility with older systems."
I hope this helps. I knew my faith in Mr. Caputo was not misdirected.
--
Gregory Hall
Mike
Or have some kind of license?
Since the Americans, Al Gore in particular, invented the internet why aren't
they paying royalties?
Greg Hall you have amazing intellectual capabilities beyond almost all
others.
"Gregory Hall" <greg...@home.fake> wrote in message
news:229oj5....@news.alt.net...
Ray Banana
> What were you saying about intellectual capabilities? Don't get hurt trying
> to think too hard.
OK, please answer this question: Is the "/" character allowed in a host
name or is it allowed as a separator?
Gregory Hall
"Mike" <mike.d...@uchscs.edu> wrote in message
news:g6d3c6$ikg$1...@aioe.org...
> Don't they have to take some kind of test to operate the internet in
> Europe? Or have some kind of license?
Probably not in the GDR. They probably have lowered the standards there due
to lack of talent.
>
> Since the Americans, Al Gore in particular, invented the internet why
> aren't they paying royalties?
They should also pay us homage. If it weren't for us they'd all be in some
gulag or Nazi death camp.
>
> Greg Hall you have amazing intellectual capabilities beyond almost all
> others.
Thank you sir! But I must also give some credit where credit is due - my
mentor, Mr. Wesley Mouch, of the State Science Institute.
--
Cheers,
Gregory Hall
Ray Banana
I see Mr. Mouch-Hall has moved to aioe, Taking precautions for when he
can't use Altopia any more. You do get around a lot, lad.
Mike
> Thus spake "Mike" <mike.d...@uchscs.edu>
>
>> What were you saying about intellectual capabilities? Don't get hurt
>> trying
>> to think too hard.
>
> OK, please answer this question: Is the "/" character allowed in a host
> name or is it allowed as a separator?
>
Allowed as separator:
" This line shows the path the message took to reach the current
system. When a system forwards the message, it should add its own
name to the list of systems in the "Path" line. The names may be
separated by any punctuation character or characters (except "."
which is considered part of the hostname). Thus, the following are
valid entries:"
Host name doesn't matter due to:
However, it is also permissible to include an extra
>>>>>>>>>> entry <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> on the right, which is the name of the sender.
"The name of the sender" vs the name of the host. Hosts can't use "/".
I see what you are asking. If you can show a precise definition of "the name
of the sender" we have something to work with. However, the RFC document
makes a clear distinction between "host" and "name of sender". Does the "/"
screw up servers? What is the effect? Are there other characters to be
avoided? What do they do?
Thanks.
Mike
> Thus spake "Mike" <mike.d...@uchscs.edu>
>
> I see Mr. Mouch-Hall has moved to aioe, Taking precautions for when he
> can't use Altopia any more. You do get around a lot, lad.
>
That Greg Hall is a lovable type of character isn't he?
Is Altopia like Viagra?
Or is it some type of dog food?
Why don't you reinstate Mouch?
He has helped your subscribership and you could ban him a second or third
time to drive membership to all time records.
Ray Banana
> Why don't you reinstate Mouch?
> He has helped your subscribership and you could ban him a second or third
> time to drive membership to all time records.
Now that I think of it ...
Ray Banana
> " This line shows the path the message took to reach the current
> system. When a system forwards the message, it should add its own
> name to the list of systems in the "Path" line. The names may be
> separated by any punctuation character or characters (except "."
> which is considered part of the hostname).
And it the next paragraph it says:
| Letters, digits, periods and hyphens are considered part of host
| names; other punctuation, including blanks, are considered
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| separators.
and that means, / is neither a valid part of a hostname nor a valid
separator. Hence, it can not be a host name the author of this article
is entitled to use and is therefore a violation of Altopia's AUP.
Furthermore, the rightmost part of Mr. Mouch-Hall's faked header does
not conform to the format of a "sender" field as described in RFC2822.
Gregory Hall
"me" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:mn.cc5c7d87e...@privacy.net...
> Do you want to lose your alt.net account as well?
>
>
I would hate to lose my Altopia account. Is there something wrong with MY
headers? You can believe me when I say I haven't tampered with them. It's
all produced by Outhouse Express and the servers along the path. Sometimes I
use XNews and they will appear different (much briefer) then.
--
Gregory Hall
Martin Jay
<greg...@home.fake> wrote:
>I've come back to clue you in. Where does it say in the AUP anything about a
>host name? Again, and I quote, "An exception to this is made for customers
>who
>pre-load a site name that they own or have permission to use." Now, just
>what don't you understand about the term "site name?" Is
>www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/ not a site name? You know, site as in
>web site?
But is that the only 'domain name' you and Wesley Sock used?
The copy of the article I received contains the following path, which
I've wrapped for display purposes:
Message-ID: <rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com>
pubnews.gradwell.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!news.glorb.com!news.alt.net
!newsfeed.alt.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!
news.albasani.net!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!news.alt.net!not-for-mail!
www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
If the article was posted through Altopia, and I suspect it was, the
majority of that path would have been preloaded, and contains at least
one site name you and the sock don't have permission to use.
Cross-posted to alt.usenet.news-server-comparison because I'm sure
Chris Caputo would like to know about abuse of his Usenet service and
breaches of its policy.
--
Martin Jay
George G
news:95.12170243...@spam-free.org.uk:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:01:41 -0400, "Gregory Hall"
> <greg...@home.fake> wrote:
>
>>I've come back to clue you in. Where does it say in the AUP
>>anything about a host name? Again, and I quote, "An exception
>>to this is made for customers who
>>pre-load a site name that they own or have permission to use."
>> Now, just what don't you understand about the term "site
>>name?" Is www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/ not a site
>>name? You know, site as in web site?
>
> But is that the only 'domain name' you and Wesley Sock used?
>
> The copy of the article I received contains the following
> path, which I've wrapped for display purposes:
>
> Message-ID: <rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com>
>
> pubnews.gradwell.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!news.glorb.co
> m!news.alt.net
> !newsfeed.alt.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
> newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de
> !t-online.de!
> news.albasani.net!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!news.alt.n
> et!not-for-mail! www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
>
> If the article was posted through Altopia, and I suspect it
> was, the majority of that path would have been preloaded, and
> contains at least one site name you and the sock don't have
> permission to use.
>
> Cross-posted to alt.usenet.news-server-comparison because I'm
> sure Chris Caputo would like to know about abuse of his Usenet
> service and breaches of its policy.
It's much more likely that CC will give some reason why this path
preloading _doesn't_ breach Altopia's AUP.
phlat_a®se
alt.free.newsservers
>On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:01:41 -0400, "Gregory Hall"
><greg...@home.fake> wrote:
>
>>I've come back to clue you in. Where does it say in the AUP anything about a
>>host name? Again, and I quote, "An exception to this is made for customers
>>who
>>pre-load a site name that they own or have permission to use." Now, just
>>what don't you understand about the term "site name?" Is
>>www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/ not a site name? You know, site as in
>>web site?
>
Your Engrish is shining through , Boy.
The funny (humour) part is.. you don't know for sure yourself so
you pose the question,, fishing for the 'correct' method.
>But is that the only 'domain name' you and Wesley Sock used?
>
Matters little as I believe Ray has already pointed out, quite
eloquently too, I would add.
>The copy of the article I received contains the following path, which
>I've wrapped for display purposes:
>
>Message-ID: <rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com>
>
>pubnews.gradwell.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!news.glorb.com!news.alt.net
>!newsfeed.alt.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
>newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!
>news.albasani.net!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!news.alt.net!not-for-mail!
>www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
>
>If the article was posted through Altopia, and I suspect it was, the
>majority of that path would have been preloaded, and contains at least
>one site name you and the sock don't have permission to use.
>
The admission of that guilt is in between the lines. Dismiss the
"duck and weave" for what it is.
>Cross-posted to alt.usenet.news-server-comparison because I'm sure
>Chris Caputo would like to know about abuse of his Usenet service and
>breaches of its policy.
>
You know your stuff Martin, so I post for others.
Xposting the post to <abnsc> is the "right" thing to do and for
more reasons than "protocol". Be very sure CC and Bill are
reading these posts. The fact they choose to remain stum
should have a message for one and all.
I would also offer the thought that Halls froggery of posts
cannot be fed to <a.binary.*>, that catastrophe (for him)
allows then only the use of socks.. nothing new there for
Admins in that NG. Also, should those posts appear the
opportunity for Admins to drop the Ukrainian hosts in the bit
bucket, at server level, is "in their face", so to speak.
And for those that are not familiar with Altopia history?
It is not that long ago CC was desperate for subs in his
promotional activity and,, like others before him... turned a
blind eye to the activities of the malcontents signed up.
The lesson is there, history... so I see no change in the
path the others followed, for Altopia.
Anyone seeing masses of <Shared-Secrets.com> articles
(any)
around froups?
Finally, I take the space to thank one and all for their work
in addressing the education of Hall et al. Should any have read
any of the material he has spewed across Usenet for a few years
now, the appreciation of his being forced into one corner
of all the domains available to the rest of Netizens would be
widely lauded.
I came in late, the bane of being outside the TZ where the
thread/s run 'live'. <shrug>
Maybe all I can contribute now is the REF for the thread pointed
to in your post Martin... thanks for your post :)
pA (_|_)
--
fup set <abns-c>
MiD: <229jtl....@news.alt.net>
MiD: <80prp1g...@banana.shacknet.nu>
MiD: <229meo....@news.alt.net>
MiD: <80ej5hn...@banana.shacknet.nu>
MiD: <229o5b....@news.alt.net>
MiD: <mn.cc5c7d87e...@privacy.net>
MiD: <22a5ss....@news.alt.net>
MiD: <80k5f9q...@banana.shacknet.nu>
George G
news:1ikntna.13kr14d7a17bN%sn...@spambin.fsnet.co.uk:
> George G <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > Cross-posted to alt.usenet.news-server-comparison because
>> > I'm sure Chris Caputo would like to know about abuse of his
>> > Usenet service and breaches of its policy.
>>
>> It's much more likely that CC will give some reason why this
>> path preloading _doesn't_ breach Altopia's AUP.
>
> It will be interesting to see if the king of the trolls
> rises to your bait.
Ha! It'll be easier for him to ignore it.
Gregory Hall
"phlat_a®se" <þhlãt_arse@bak.òn.de.põõpdek.invalid> wrote in message
news:g6e3kl$db4$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
<snipped tons of the usual Phlat_arse rambling on and on blather>
> Finally, I take the space to thank one and all for their work
> in addressing the education of Hall et al. Should any have read
> any of the material he has spewed across Usenet for a few years
> now, the appreciation of his being forced into one corner
> of all the domains available to the rest of Netizens would be
> widely lauded.
Get your head out of your Phlat_arse, please. You continue to mix me up with
somebody else.
As concerns education, it is readily apparent that the educational stream
eminates outwardly from me, Gregory Hall, and not vice versa as you
incoherently maintain. The longer you fail to realize that I'm not your
nemesis - that unassailable, Ukrainian, ultra vires, usenet usufruct - the
more you diminish your standing and the more you reduce yourself to a
paranoid and vindictive laughing stock. And, it seems to me, there ain't a
whole lot left to lose until you're reduced to a small stub. In case you
cannot understand erudite English, may I suggest the following: you, my dear
confused fellow, are barking up the wrong tree.
<a further snip>
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
"phlat_a®se" <þhlãt_arse@bak.òn.de.põõpdek.invalid> wrote in message
<snip>
>..now fark off whence you came, youse be
> grossly dumbass to hangout in these woods.
<snip>
Gregory Hall walks whatever paths it pleases him to walk. He has no fear of
the big bad wolf and he snickers at the idle threats of pabulum-puking,
snot-nosed, pantywaisted netnannies!
--
Gregory Hall
Chris Caputo
It is best to send complaints about Altopia posters to "ab...@altopia.com"
since I may not always see them in newsgroups.
I confirm "<rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com>" was posted by an
Altopia customer.
At Altopia the Path: looks like this:
Path: news.alt.net!newsfeed.alt.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!
newshosting.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!
newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.albasani.net!
news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!news.alt.net!
not-for-mail!www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
The address "www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/" appears to be a web
page legitimately controlled by the poster.
The last "news.alt.net" comes after any valid or valid-looking pre-loaded
site names.
With this in mind, the Path: line is not in violation of Altopia policy.
Due to how Usenet propagation works, the Path: line above is a legitimate
way for the poster to attempt to have his posting not show up at the sites
listed between the two "news.alt.net" sections.
Now, separately, the:
Message-ID: <rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com>
is in violation of Altopia policy, if the poster does not have permission
to use the "kkk.com" domain. I have warned the customer of this possible
violation.
I have also added the following to https://www.altopia.com/polfaq.html to
clarify this policy:
Q: What is your policy on headers referencing sites without permission?
(Added July 27th, 2008.)
A: We have a policy against a user of Altopia adjusting the headers of a
post so that it uses a registered Internet domain without the domain
owner's permission, in an attempt to deceive readers of the true source
of the post.
Chris Caputo
President, Altopia Corporation
mm
>phlat_a®se <þhlãt_arse@bak.òn.de.põõpdek.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Bill", scribbled in: alt.free.newsservers
>
>I'm not interested in reading a 140+ line rant about why
>you think it's a good idea to crosspost an argument from
>alt.free.newsservers elsewhere into usenet.
>
edit
>Keep up what you're doing and you'll attract one of the
>usenet performance artist bands, and they'll stay until
>alt.free.newsservers is reduced to a "smoking crater".
Oh don't be absurd!
Little weight do you carry as the proverbial Drama Queen.
It is you who should grow a spine and then to support
it. Grow up!
Ray Banana
[...]
> I have also added the following to https://www.altopia.com/polfaq.html to
> clarify this policy:
>
> Q: What is your policy on headers referencing sites without permission?
> (Added July 27th, 2008.)
>
> A: We have a policy against a user of Altopia adjusting the headers of a
> post so that it uses a registered Internet domain without the domain
> owner's permission, in an attempt to deceive readers of the true source
> of the post.
Just to make sure I got this right:
Does this rule apply to the Path: header, too?
Chris Caputo
Yes. But if I have failed to take something into account and have this be
congruent with the Path: pre-loading policy (below), please let me know.
My intent is that an Altopia user can still pre-load valid site names onto
a Path: line, as long as they make clear where the post originated by
adding a "news.alt.net" tag after any valid or valid-looking site name.
Chris Caputo
President, Altopia Corporation
---
Q: What is your policy on Path: pre-loading?
A: If a customer of Altopia performs Path: pre-loading on their Path:
lines with valid (or valid looking) site names before "news.alt.net" they
should end their path-preloading with "news.alt.net", so that it appears
twice and it is obvious the post originated at Altopia. An exception to
this is made for customers who pre-load a site name that they own or have
permission to use. For example:
Path: ...!news.alt.net!valid_looking_site_name!news.alt.net
Chris Caputo
A pre-loaded Path: can be used by an author to attempt to prevent a
posting from arriving at a site. This may work because Usenet peering
normally involves not sending to a peer postings which already have the
peer's site name in a Path: line. This helps prevent loops.
I say "attempt" and "may work" because it all depends on how the target
site's peers have their peerings configured.
Messiah Obama
<cca...@alt.net> wrote:
>>What valid purpose is there for a pre-loaded Path: ?
>
>A pre-loaded Path: can be used by an author to attempt to prevent a
>posting from arriving at a site. This may work because Usenet peering
>normally involves not sending to a peer postings which already have the
>peer's site name in a Path: line. This helps prevent loops.
>
>I say "attempt" and "may work" because it all depends on how the target
>site's peers have their peerings configured.
I'm glad that I'm clueless and don't know what the hell you guys are
talking about.
Peers, paths, loops, pre-loads, thwarting arrivals at sites ... Huh?
Ignorance is bliss -- Way Back Jack
Gregory Hall
"phlat_a®se" <þhlãt_arse@bak.òn.de.põõpdek.invalid> wrote in message
> Chris Caputo <cca...@alt.net>, scribbled in:
> alt.free.newsservers
>
>>Ray Banana <ray...@banana.shacknet.nu> writes:
> /snipT
>>>Just to make sure I got this right:
>>>
>>>Does this rule apply to the Path: header, too?
>>
>>Yes. But if I have failed to take something into account and have this be
>>congruent with the Path: pre-loading policy (below), please let me know.
>>
> overcome/exhausted? <rhetorical>
>
>>My intent is that an Altopia user can still pre-load valid site names onto
>>a Path: line, as long as they make clear where the post originated by
>>adding a "news.alt.net" tag after any valid or valid-looking site name.
>>
> EG: news.metrocastcablevision.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> [from] <gmp284d58t7pedc6a...@4ax.com>
>
> Origin is origin.. Hall is preloading against what you are forced
> to now acknowledge you will accept. Argue that..!
> It is this simple. You (and Bill) educate your customers post by
> post, No?????
>
> snipT
>>
>>Q: What is your policy on Path: pre-loading?
>>
>>A: If a customer of Altopia performs Path: pre-loading on their Path:
>>lines with valid (or valid looking) site names before "news.alt.net" they
>>should end their path-preloading with "news.alt.net", so that it appears
>>twice and it is obvious the post originated at Altopia. An exception to
>>this is made for customers who pre-load a site name that they own or have
>>permission to use. For example:
>>
>> Path: ...!news.alt.net!valid_looking_site_name!news.alt.net
>>
> May I ask.. is this the slap for Gregory Boy which I (for one)
> have sought?
> If so.. please do change the texture of your Depends
> ( in <,.au>. Depends = farkin BIG hankie).
>
> cheers - I think
>
> pA (_|_)
Good grief, some people refuse to admit when they are wrong about something
. . . Is your entire life so wrapped up in playing the role of full-time
Usenet Nanny and part-time Usenet Cop that you cannot let something go when
you and you and the heroes you slurp have erred in public? Is it the public
correction of your errant ideas that gets you so riled up or is it the fact
that, once in a while you and the BananaBoi are forced to live with the fact
that you are fallible?
In either case, may I suggest a round or two of psychotherapy
The BananaBoi openly gloated how he has banned Mr. Wesley Mouch. He seemed
delighted at the time. Now that Mr. Mouch chooses to willing NOT have his
posts appear on Motzarella and a couple of its peers it seems like you and
the BananaBoi are having conniptions. Hey learn a lesson - one that you two
have failed to learn to date - there are some things over which you have NO
control. Stop being so anal.
And, I am publicly requesting that you cease and desist libeling my good
name with false accusations that I'm some kind of religious zealot who has,
in the past flooded, this group with religious propaganda and other such
nonsense such as me being the recent NewsMaestro sporger. What I am saying
is put up or shut up! Whatever so-called proof you claim to have is all
bogus and a figment of your failing mind. Are you suffering from
Alzheimer's?
I have NEVER posted the religious flood you are accusing me of posting or
any flood of any type. You are a bald faced liar and an ignorant quack -
both wreckless and paranoid. Stop or you will be soon be hearing from my
attorney.
You're obviously wrong about the path header. You've been proven wrong. You
are fallible. Learn to live with that fact. You might control the cheesy
free news server and have your nose way far up the crack of the BananaBoi's
arse but of what real value is that.
You don't write the AUP for other news servers, thank God for small favors.
This post is NOT a veiled threat. It is a first warning. If you don't
believe me just keep up with the unfounded libel. I've be generous and give
you three strikes.
~~~~~~~~~
Gregory Hall
(non-standard sig line done to protect the archiving of libelous
statements.)
P.S. I am archiving below to Google Groups the example of libel to which I
refer above. Your "X-No-Archive: yes" header is no safe haven from possible
consequences of your public abuse and harassment..
Xref: news alt.free.newsservers:155511
alt.usenet.news-server-comparison:22713
alt.binaries.news-server-comparison:322609
Path:
news.wiretrip.org!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!not-for-mail
From: phlat_a®se <þhlãt_arse@bak.òn.de.põõpdek.invalid>
Newsgroups:
alt.free.newsservers,alt.usenet.news-server-comparison,alt.binaries.news-server-comparison
Subject: Re: Gregory Hall has been too hard on Ray Banana and Motzarella
Followup-To: alt.binaries.news-server-comparison
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:12:24 +1000
Organization: Påtient Fortissimo Arãchnids
Lines: 147
Message-ID: <g6g7ff$k3$1...@registered.motzarella.org>
References:
<rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com><g6cjk2$cfk$1...@aioe.org>
<80prp2k...@banana.shacknet.nu><229jtl....@news.alt.net>
<80prp1g...@banana.shacknet.nu> <229meo....@news.alt.net>
<95.12170243...@spam-free.org.uk>
<g6e3kl$db4$1...@registered.motzarella.org> <22c64m....@news.alt.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: feeder.motzarella.org
U2FsdGVkX18sODaFIc8OGUEMb3JWjMAkLhlgZcKMga+UBVDjlAuRSrLcfNAoAnQ/aSFyawvw89yHDhrX6sOIAROHLzxeQKUlTI4oMB/k7uin9TGAHQtFTnXwybaOafCSjR1yHUATFrI=
X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to ab...@motzarella.org with full
headers
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:12:00 +0000 (UTC)
Summary: Drama Free Zone
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Whinging-To: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing
[These flamers are either lamers //or// would-be psychologists]
X-Anti-Terrorist: Learn to Fly -= Doan let the bassids Thump YOU=-
X-Reclaim-Usenet: [Crash Google
Groups]-http://improve-usenet.org/underlying.html
X-Newsreader: Forte` Agent v2..xx/666 [Aussie Engrish Version]
X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1827+JULTQ4ty1OSKF8cfqKkPuM/GUj77FP7R+DjbksPw==
Cancel-Lock: sha1:6PIN0id50N/vvXP+VGygfrZcdMk=
X-Mission-Statement: DELTREE MORONS
"Bill", scribbled in: alt.free.newsservers
>phlat_a®se <þhlãt_arse@bak.òn.de.põõpdek.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Newsgroups:
>>alt.free.newsservers,alt.usenet.news-server-comparison,alt.binaries.news-server-comparison
>>Followup-To: alt.binaries.news-server-comparison
>
/restore attrib
>>Martin Jay <mar...@spam-free.org.uk>, scribbled in:
>>alt.free.newsservers
>
>Reply posted to alt.free.newsservers - there's no reason
>to spread this to other parts of usenet.
>
Other than the image of the Ostrich I see in your post, Bill?
You trying to breed at last? Wont wash, Bill... do your
homework:-/
Hall is busting the Altopia TOS, others here in AFN believe that
fact is news. Don't shoot the messenger :-~
/restore body
>>>The copy of the article I received contains the following path, which
>>>I've wrapped for display purposes:
>>>
>>>Message-ID: <rehj84hd8mh2fidsd...@kkk.com>
>>>
>>>pubnews.gradwell.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!news.glorb.com!news.alt.net
>>>!newsfeed.alt.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
>>>newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!
>>>news.albasani.net!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!news.alt.net!not-for-mail!
>>>www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
>>>
>>>If the article was posted through Altopia, and I suspect it was, the
>>>majority of that path would have been preloaded, and contains at least
>>>one site name you and the sock don't have permission to use.
snipT
>>>Cross-posted to alt.usenet.news-server-comparison because I'm sure
>>>Chris Caputo would like to know about abuse of his Usenet service and
>>>breaches of its policy.
>
>For all your complaints about me being a troll, you're
>the one using the troll tactics.
>
If that is what you read, Bill.. then so-be-it, I _know_ your POV
cannot be altered once formed. And that Fact is based on more
than your 11year history of "defense"[sic], both in <abns-c> and
elsewhere.
Do please take note of the important piece of information you
snipped in your response.. now restored.
And for the audience, "Troll",, as used by Bill... and shared by
those fed a diet of Dr.Suess as children, is some mythical
grotesque creature hiding under a Bridge, eating children [short
version].
To perpetuate their childhood into misunderstanding the Adult
World is so very typical of that culture as to be laughable,
Trolls are in every Usenet post ever made as a request for
information and in every"chat" thread... Usenet would simply
collapse should people leave their imagination and lingual skills
"at the door", so to speak.
Too loose a concept for yourself Bill, and like-minded anal
retentive types. Yes? <rhet>
And for the record? As a concept I (and others) anointed you with
"shilling" ,, not trolling. I do believe the "trolling"
accusation is widely broadcast by your fan club.
Their opinion is not worth Jack.
>No one is forcing you or anyone else to read "Greg's"
>ranting. Is "Ray" such an imbecile that the only way
>he can defend himself is to rely on you trying to troll
>up a backlash against "Greg"?
>
I am hearing an echo here , Bill.. and should you be making such
connections? Motz and its 'operations' have no link to myself,
Nor does that organisation know anymore about me than is read
from my posts.. which may or may not be "reality". That is the
privilege of using an anon _free_ server,,, one that Mike Horwath
set in place many years ago.
The stereotypical "good Guy" is now labeled by _you_ as
"imbecile", Bill?
You are losing it Bro.. Bigtime !
Further, either you choose to ignore, or you forget.. it was Motz
that Gregory Boy first attacked with his froggery. Pull the
headers and go fetch the post (homework 4 U). I (and others)
rightly objected to that "tactic".
However, mine was not the first nor the tenth post.. I stayed
stum for quite some time. When I 'spoke' (as I do) I too won the
privilege(?) of being frogged.
Do the homework.. then go ring Medivac for the hole in
your foot :-/
And have your backlash looked at while you are at it <G>
>The solution is to use a killfilter. Show some intelligence
>and accept the reality that you cannot do anything about "Greg"
>other than ignore him. "Greg" does not stop you from using
>usenet as you please and you have no 'right' to stop him until
>he strays across the line into actionable usenet abuse.
>
The OP of the Xpost believes Gregory Boy has filled the criteria
for abuse. Argue against that,,, either as a response to that
post or as a separate statement putting why you believe Path
insertions are not abuse. You never know you might just win that
argument and then we can ALL do it, legally(?)..!
Also.. do please refrain from forming my Rights for me, I know
them, understand fully how to invoke them,, and will boot your
arse and anyone else who dares to refuse my Right.. well out of
the paddock.
Believe that.
>Seriously - USE A KILLFILTER.
>
Here we go again, Bill.. sometimes I do get the impression you
are indeed a complete moron on this Topic.
I use a KF, daily.. the one in my *head*. I choose to "watch" or4
"kill" as I see fit. I also choose to observe just who
(or sometimes "what") enters the Topic. Disagree that MO is a
sensible attitude to Usenet participation.. I dare you <BFG>
FYI, Bill.. I cite just one example of what may be hundreds,, if
not thousands... of your "use a KF" mantra being proven _bad
practice_ beyond doubt for the likes of Gregory Boy.
<re.ponds> did not go to MOD status by sheer accident, by any
stretch of the imagination. This NG was flooded with the crap
overflowing from that bag of nutcases of "Christian" persuasion,
almost a "Crusade".
It is the Hall Turkey you _chose_ to rub shoulders with who is
attempting the same scenario here, and elsewhere.. do your
homework. You have much of it to do before you open your squeak
once more.
Now if you will excuse me I have Breakfast to do for those
returning from Church.. I done did mine own Communion, Boss ..
<chuckles>
Adieu
pA (_|_)
--
froup line restored -- fup set <abns-c>
Martin Jay
<greg...@home.fake> wrote:
>Good grief, some people refuse to admit when they are wrong about something
>. . . Is your entire life so wrapped up in playing the role of full-time
>Usenet Nanny and part-time Usenet Cop that you cannot let something go when
>you and you and the heroes you slurp have erred in public?
Ironically, perhaps, today's biggest Nannying Usenet Cop has been
Chris Caputo, who's spent the day adding an additional restrictive
term to Altopia's policy FAQ and emailing a customer to warn them
about their Usenet activities.
At least users of free Usenet services don't have to pay out hard cash
from their welfare check for the pleasure of being smacked down by
Usenet server admin cops.
--
Martin Jay
Chris Caputo
>* Katherine Reynolds wrote:
>[...]
>> I have also added the following to https://www.altopia.com/polfaq.html to
>> clarify this policy:
>>
>> Q: What is your policy on headers referencing sites without permission?
>> (Added July 27th, 2008.)
>>
>> A: We have a policy against a user of Altopia adjusting the headers of a
>> post so that it uses a registered Internet domain without the domain
>> owner's permission, in an attempt to deceive readers of the true source
>> of the post.
>
>
>Does this rule obligate to the Path: Web, too?
Hey Ray,
If you mean the odd use of a web URL (sans http://) in a Path: entry, ala:
Path: [...]!www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
I am comfortable with the poster's use of the web URL in the Path: entry
since it points to a web site that appears to be under the poster's
control.
The new rule applies to all headers and co-exists with the Path:
pre-loading policy.
Steve
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:31:33 +0100, Martin Jay wrote in
Message-Id: <97.12172015...@spam-free.org.uk>:
> At least users of free Usenet services don't have to pay out hard cash
> from their welfare check for the pleasure of being smacked down by
> Usenet server admin cops.
As a provider of free news services, I think it's worth adding that
Altopia has not only supported my services by way of peerings but Chris
has even offered encouragement for them. Without this sort of friendly
collaboration with the operators of the pay services, the free ones
wouldn't have the decent propagation they currently enjoy.
--
pub 1024D/228761E7 2003-06-04 Steven Crook
Key fingerprint = 1CD9 95E1 E9CE 80D6 C885 B7EB B471 80D5 2287 61E7
uid Steven Crook <st...@mixmin.net>
George G
news:22ejf4....@news.alt.net:
>>
>>What valid purpose is there for a pre-loaded Path: ?
>
> A pre-loaded Path: can be used by an author to attempt to
> prevent a posting from arriving at a site. This may work
> because Usenet peering normally involves not sending to a peer
> postings which already have the peer's site name in a Path:
> line. This helps prevent loops.
>
> I say "attempt" and "may work" because it all depends on how
> the target site's peers have their peerings configured.
Hmm. IOW, there is no valid purpose for a pre-loaded path, and you
allowing it is purely so your customers can use it for nefarious
purposes.
How very community spirited of you!
George G
news:488c8e88...@nntp.aioe.org:
You're getting your socks in a muddle again, Neal.
George G
news:22fb8s....@news.alt.net:
> This post is NOT a veiled threat. It is a first warning. If
> you don't believe me just keep up with the unfounded libel
You threatening a kook suit? You can't do that from behind a sock.
Jeff▲Relf
Freebin Support, Ray Banana, Chris Caputo, Alexander and Aioe.
Warning ! I'm in bitch mode, big time.
I live in Seattle, just North of the University of Washington:
“ www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/CampusWalk.PNG ”.
Although it's a very nice neighborhood, full of million dollar homes,
myself, I live in a rooming house with 32 rooms sharing 5 bathrooms.
Yes .. Seattlites don't all live like Bill Gates .. D'oh !
There's only one bath for the basement and ground floor ( 16 rooms ) ..
and I'm in the basement. ( I love cool / dark basements )
The sink has no hot water and floor is always wet.
The laundy room has a permenant puddle that smells strongly of mold.
The puddle is at the foot of the dryer,
ready to make your clothes wet again, should you drop them.
Of the 35 or so people living here, no one has broadbrand.
Broadbrand costs 60 U.S. dollars a month,
unless you bundle it with expensive crap you don't need or want.
Once, a person did have broadband ( Comcast cable ),
but she wouldn't give me a WiFi connection, not for any price,
because it was already too slow for her and the other people using it.
“ News.Individual.NET:8119 ” is Thee Only NNTP server that:
A. I can afford, and B. Actually works.
My anonymous / cost-free / ad-free dailup service blocks port 119.
“ Reader.Motzarella.ORG:80 ” got cute on us
and deleted very frickin' article in my favorite groups.
The excuse was: “ Some newsreaders need lower article numbers. ” ! ?
Posts from Motzarella.ORG sometimes take 1 hour to show up ! ?
I paid 11.50 USD to use “ News.OctaNews.COM:80 ” ( plus PayPal fees ),
only to discover that I need special premission to post,
and my requests have fallen of deaf ears .. it's days later, no replies.
OctaNews is dropping some of my favorite people ( e.g. Ray Banana ),
the posts simply aren't there ! ?
Switching to OctaNews from another server means
re-downloading all articles because, unlike every other NNTP server,
it won't tell you the internal Article Number of a Message-ID ! ! !
( i.e. OctaNews doesn't carry the XRef field )
Sadly, I can't contact OctaNews, much less get a much-desired refund.
Like a lot of NNTP servers ( call them “ Mothers ” ),
“ NNTP.Aioe.ORG:80 ” applies it's own special killfile,
killing people I want to read. Why not let me decide these things ?
I have a very sophisticated system in place to Moderate posters;
I don't need, and can Not tolerate a server that does this for me.
I never Fully plonk anyone.
Although I combine nymshifters, so each has just one nym,
and I restrict each nym to his 33 most recent posts, and I flag forgers
( e.g. “ Ray_Banana ” at Odessa.UA becomes “ FaKE_Ray_Banana ” ..
and, for certain nyms, I auto-mark all but the 3 most recent as “ Read ”,
I never “ kill ” direct or indirect replies ( up to 5 levels away ).
I could bitch forever about crappy no-cost / low-cost NNTP servers,
including some of the more expensive ones, like GigaNews.
Ray Banana
[Path preloading]
> If you mean the odd use of a web URL (sans http://) in a Path: entry, ala:
> Path: [...]!www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
> I am comfortable with the poster's use of the web URL in the Path: entry
> since it points to a web site that appears to be under the poster's
> control.
As this does not affect the proper distribution of articles, I don't
care.
What I was referring to is the use of Usenet site path tokens in the
preloaded portion of the Path: with the clear intention to make these
articles appear to have originated from one of the preloaded sites.
If a poster, for whatever reason, does not want his postings to be
distribributed to certain sites, that may be a legitimate use of path
preloading, but pretending to have posted from a server that actually
banned this person is a different story, even if he adds Altopia's
path token to the preloaded path elements and / or adds some fancy
string at the end.
BTW: Could you, please, check if these articles actually originated
from Altopia:
<d5ac84lsvbnrtmk34...@kkk.com>
<t9sc84tfb1g2oopd8...@kkk.com>
Their path headers should be clearly against Altopia's AUP.
Chris Caputo
>* Chris Caputo:
>[Path preloading]
>> If you mean the odd use of a web URL (sans http://) in a Path: entry, ala:
>> Path: [...]!www.webspawner.com/users/wesleymouch/
>> I am comfortable with the poster's use of the web URL in the Path: entry
>> since it points to a web site that appears to be under the poster's
>> control.
>
>As this does not affect the proper distribution of articles, I don't
>care.
>
>What I was referring to is the use of Usenet site path tokens in the
>preloaded portion of the Path: with the clear intention to make these
>articles appear to have originated from one of the preloaded sites.
>If a poster, for whatever reason, does not want his postings to be
>distribributed to certain sites, that may be a legitimate use of path
>preloading, but pretending to have posted from a server that actually
>banned this person is a different story, even if he adds Altopia's
>path token to the preloaded path elements and / or adds some fancy
>string at the end.
If the poster adds "news.alt.net" after any valid site names, then it
complies with the policy.
>BTW: Could you, please, check if these articles actually originated
>from Altopia:
>
><d5ac84lsvbnrtmk34...@kkk.com>
><t9sc84tfb1g2oopd8...@kkk.com>
I confirm these were posted via Altopia.
>Their path headers should be clearly against Altopia's AUP.
Agreed.
The poster now understands the Path: pre-loading policy. If there are new
violations, feel free to inform ab...@altopia.com.
Thanks,
George G
> That's nonsense. There are several reasons to use a
> customized Path header. One is to prevent sites from
> accepting the message, i.e., if I don't want my messages to
> show up on serverone.news, I could put !serverone.news! in the
> Path.
Bollocks, Bill. Firstly, CC himself said it only "may work" and
secondly, I've only ever seen it for the purpose of disguising its
origin.
> Another reason is to make is more difficult to concoct
> convincing looking forgeries. I used to pre-load my Path
> header with an entry that was tied to my Message-ID header and
> computed using my Date header.
PGP sign it.
> In any event, every message going out of Altopia has Altopia's
> stamp in it. If someone is trying to mask the true origin of
> their messages, it will eventually fail because of that.
At least two messages coming out of Altopia recently by that
fuckwit Neal Warren/Greg Hall didn't have alt.net at the end of the
path.
George G
On a newsgroup everyone gets to see your replies. That can only
be a good thing, and you can easily ignore an abuse report sent
by email.
Getting back to path pre-loading, can you tell the people reading
this which other NSPs allow it? Thanks.
George G
in news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.28.7pm.21W:
FFS, sort out your charset.
Bam <|>Bam
<MPG.22f8ef5cc...@nntp.motzarella.org>
>In article <9JCjk.289677$Tj3.2...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
>inv...@invalid.invalid says...
>> "Bill" wrote in news:22i64u....@news.alt.net:
>>
>> > George G <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>What valid purpose is there for a pre-loaded Path: ?
>> >>>
>> >>> A pre-loaded Path: can be used by an author to attempt to
>> >>> prevent a posting from arriving at a site. This may work
>> >>> because Usenet peering normally involves not sending to a
>> >>> peer postings which already have the peer's site name in a
>> >>> Path: line. This helps prevent loops.
>> >>>
>> >>> I say "attempt" and "may work" because it all depends on how
>> >>> the target site's peers have their peerings configured.
>> >>
>> >>Hmm. IOW, there is no valid purpose for a pre-loaded path, and
>> >>you allowing it is purely so your customers can use it for
>> >>nefarious purposes.
>> >>How very community spirited of you!
>> >
>> > That's nonsense. There are several reasons to use a
>> > customized Path header. One is to prevent sites from
>> > accepting the message, i.e., if I don't want my messages to
>> > show up on serverone.news, I could put !serverone.news! in the
>> > Path.
Do you need to read the same thing multiple times before it sinks
in? Newsservers should not accept articles that have their own site
in the path. See the INN FAQ here:
Subject: (7.2) http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/software/inn-faq/part7/
Course that doesn't exclude any fucked up server software someone
may have checking inbound articles against Message ID's they already
have, and be disregarding the path, if such a case exists the path
expression would fail. If Chris said that shit you said he said, he's smokin'
whackybaccy, because he certainly knows where the config files for his
server are, he's been running Altopia ten or fifteen fucking years.
George G:
>> secondly, I've only ever seen it for the purpose of disguising its
>> origin.
Howso? ADDing an entry on the path can't disguise an articles
origin, and this isn't a trick specially thought up to mess with
you. If servers don't see their stamp in the path, they could
accept their own articles absent any other filters checking
for duplicates.
>> > Another reason is to make is more difficult to concoct
>> > convincing looking forgeries. I used to pre-load my Path
>> > header with an entry that was tied to my Message-ID header and
>> > computed using my Date header.
George G:
>> PGP sign it.
Apples and oranges. A path entry doesn't do anything
nefarious, but it is an option some may want to use.
>> > In any event, every message going out of Altopia has Altopia's
>> > stamp in it. If someone is trying to mask the true origin of
>> > their messages, it will eventually fail because of that.
George G:
>> At least two messages coming out of Altopia recently by that
>> fuckwit Neal Warren/Greg Hall didn't have alt.net at the end of the
>> path.
So what? Tell Chris to fix it if it bothers you, then shuttup
about it.
>George, you can take akula a/k/a "Bill" outside at sunrise and show him the sun
>coming up and he'll still disagree with you. For 11 years now, akula has NEVER
>admitted to being wrong even when absolute proof was thrown in his lap face and
>monitor.
Gitr, I didn't read all the above, but on this one (Bill, Chris, ect)
are correct, you don't want the news server to accept it's own
articles.
>Do yourself a favor and filter akula a/k/a "Bill" who is Usenet's
>biggest lying nark rat cyber-terrorist. He's a stalker of the worst kind; he
>owns Altopia. akula IS Chris Caputo.
Sorry for humping your excellent flammage, I was just looking
around for Bill when I read turdknockers poast. Oh BTW, hi Billy,
wtf are you doing in abnsc, looking for 'becca?
hehehe
AE
Bam <|>Bam
<g6l7en$eco$1...@registered.motzarella.org>
[..]
>Hmm. IOW, there is no valid purpose for a pre-loaded path,
Hawgwarsh.
>and you allowing it is purely so your customers can use it for nefarious
>purposes.
Yesssssssss.........................
all the better to m{i}n{d}f{u}c{k} you to insanity.
Jeff▲Relf
To see the UTF-8 in my post use “ lowly ” Outlook or Google Groups.
Can you look up a message-ID ( Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.28.7pm.21W ) ?
To see the UTF-8, properly rendered, put this in your browser's URL bar:
“ Google.COM/groups?selm=Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.28.7pm.21W ”.
Here's the post in UTF-16, any browser can display it:
“ JeffRelf.F-M.FM/MyPost UTF-16 .TXT ”. ( the filename has spaces )
P.S. The link I gave in the post was from my old Cotse.NET site,
it should've been: “ JeffRelf.F-M.FM/CampusWalk.PNG ”.
My handrolled newsreader ( X.EXE ) is in: “ JeffRelf.F-M.FM/Games.ZIP ”.
phlat_a®se
alt.free.newsservers
>Ray Banana <ray...@banana.shacknet.nu> writes:
Thank you, Chris.
>>Their path headers should be clearly against Altopia's AUP.
>
>Agreed.
>
A man I did call a "friend" is sitting up in his grave, clapping
this achievement. Anadvocate (with myself) gained similar
resulting circumstance for another (as liberal) Admin, some years
ago now. That effort only took a few days.. but we didn't have
someone running interference (eh, Bill :-/).
Maybe in time, Chris.. your Policy will make your service
unattractive to Hall (posing as any half dozen "nyms") using
Altopia. If,, as astute as you say you.. are then I would guess
you are of the mind (hoping) he will just "go away" <BG>
Be very sure Chris you are only enjoying his subscription whilst
the 'rules' feather his nest. Your service will attract like
postings to that of Motz ,, from Hall (Man of 0ne Thousand
Nyms)... when you too are no longer of any use in his
shenanigans.
In that way.. the posters here steering you towards responsible
Administration are (in reality) doing you a huge favour.
To be frogged by Hall is a sure sign the "right thing: is being
enacted.
>The poster now understands the Path: pre-loading policy. If there are new
>violations, feel free to inform ab...@altopia.com.
>
Will not happen :-/
And..
FWIW, I seriously doubt anyone who knows would bother with
writing Altopia. As one poster has already commented
(somewhere).. you will only act (react) when the information is
in the public domain.
Sad as that is,, I am very sure nobody in any of this was asking
for anymore than a "don't do that Gregory" email to your
customer.
Again.. thank you for your attention to this detail.
cheers
pA (_|_)
--
froup line embellished
fup set -->alt.binaries.news-server-comparison
George G
> George G <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> [...]
>>Bollocks, Bill. Firstly, CC himself said it only "may work" and
>>secondly,
>
> Some usenet servers go on Message-ID to prevent "looping".
> Others use the Path header. I know for sure that Airnews
> used to when it was in business.
So what? Why would anyone want to prevent their messages from
going to a particular site? If you don't want something read on
usenet, don't post it. Using this as an excuse to fuck about with
the path header is just really lame.
>>I've only ever seen it for the purpose of disguising its
origin.
> [...]
>
> And I told you clearly that I once used it for a good reason,
> anti-forgery.
And I told you use PGP.
> Newscene also allows Path header pre-loading. It adds !novia!
> to its Path headers.
Ah, Newscene, that other great bastion of troll values. Haven't
seen an awful lot of shit emanating from there recently, probably
because they cost a small fortune.
> Altopia adds !news.alt.net!
>
> Which service makes the message origin more obvious? Altopia
> also has a clear policy on Path pre-loading. People who run
> afoul of that policy have their posting privledges suspended.
> Newscene doesn't have a stated policy.
>
> If there is anyone out there violating Altopia's AUP, report
> them. I know from experience that the poster in question
> _will_ have their posting suspended until the matter is
> cleared up.
Read this path.
Path: core-iad-easynews!news-in-02-iad.easynews.com!s05-b13.iad!
216.246.80.254.MISMATCH!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!
69.16.185.21.MISMATCH!npeer03.iad!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-
me.highwinds-media.com!news.alt.net!worldnet.att.net!
63.218.45.10!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!newshub.sdsu.edu!feeder.erje.net!
news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!not-for-mail
Is it clear it originates from Altopia?
No? Well then how do you fucking report it? Answer, you can't.
Furthermore, CC has said that if people are too stupid to read
the path header to send complaints, then their complaint probably
has no merit. Nice, eh?
> But you seem to have a much deeper resentment going on here.
> What would satisfy you, a human sacrifice?
No, you drama queen. A newsadmin that didn't aim his service
squarely at usenet vandals would satisfy me.
> George - usenet is an elective activity, i.e., a hobby.
> You really ought to find something more enjoyable to do
> than allow Altopia's AUP to make your life a LIVING HELL.
Altopia's AUP does not make my life a LIVING HELL, as usenet is
not my life; I have plenty of other things to occupy me, unlike
you, you obsequious altnet cunt.
George G
in news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.29.0pm.29D:
> Xnews is an orphan, not good enough to receive further
> support. To see the UTF-8 in my post use “ lowly ” Outlook
> or Google Groups.
>
> Can you look up a message-ID
No, if you can't be arsed to fix your charset, then I can't be
arsed to look up a message-id. It looks like pure tripe anyway.
Jeff▲Relf
Any modern newsreader, including my X.EXE, handles UTF-8.
Outlook reads it fine; but, by default, doesn't send it.
Chris Caputo
>Read this path.
>
>Path: core-iad-easynews!news-in-02-iad.easynews.com!s05-b13.iad!
>216.246.80.254.MISMATCH!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!
>69.16.185.21.MISMATCH!npeer03.iad!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-
>me.highwinds-media.com!news.alt.net!worldnet.att.net!
>63.218.45.10!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
>216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!newshub.sdsu.edu!feeder.erje.net!
>news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!not-for-mail
>
>Is it clear it originates from Altopia?
>No? Well then how do you fucking report it? Answer, you can't.
>Furthermore, CC has said that if people are too stupid to read
>the path header to send complaints, then their complaint probably
>has no merit. Nice, eh?
If you think the above Path: was from a post that originated at Altopia,
what is the message-id?
George G
news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.30.9am.46C:
> Is your computer 12 years outdated,
Yes.
or just your newsreader ?
> Any modern newsreader, including my X.EXE, handles UTF-8.
> Outlook reads it fine; but, by default, doesn't send it.
Outlook isn't a newsreader.
George G
> George G <grgg...@googlemail.com> writes:
>>Read this path.
>>
>>Path:
>>core-iad-easynews!news-in-02-iad.easynews.com!s05-b13.iad!
>>216.246.80.254.MISMATCH!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!
>>69.16.185.21.MISMATCH!npeer03.iad!news.highwinds-media.com!feed
>>- me.highwinds-media.com!news.alt.net!worldnet.att.net!
>>63.218.45.10!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
>>216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!newshub.sdsu.edu!feeder.erje.net!
>>news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!not-for-mail
>>
>>Is it clear it originates from Altopia?
>>No? Well then how do you fucking report it? Answer, you can't.
>>Furthermore, CC has said that if people are too stupid to read
>>the path header to send complaints, then their complaint
>>probably has no merit. Nice, eh?
>
> If you think the above Path: was from a post that originated
> at Altopia, what is the message-id?
MID: <d5ac84lsvbnrtmk34...@kkk.com>.
And in MID: <22j56g....@news.alt.net> you confirmed it came
from Altopia.
Gregory Hall
"George G" <grgg...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:_B4kk.260120$Uf4.2...@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
You seem to suffer from dementia like poor old Phlat_arse. That kkk.com ID
is an old post Mr. Mouch wrote [The Return of Wesley Mouch] prior to his
having a conversation with Altopia as to how to preload a path correctly
and, about a week later, how to not use a registered domain without
permission.
Old history. Please check a recent Wesley Mouch post and you will note both
transgressions have been rectified. Mr. Mouch does not wish to disregard
his NSP's wishes. Mr. Mouch knows there is only so many hours in a day and
they all need to be used productively for best results.
Why do you bother Altopia with a rehash? Weren't you paying attention the
first time around or is it that you just cannot turn loose of your fetish,
and mind your own business? Is your only goal in life to be a full-time,
unpaid Usenet hall monitor? If so, you definitely need to hone your skills
as they are pathetically dull.
If you're going to spend your time being a netKKKop, at least be a timely
and informed one!
Good grief! I'd like to know where the mold is. You know, the one they
popped you, Martin, Phlat and many others who frequent these groups out of .
. .
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
George G isn't a man.
--
Gregory Hall
Jeff▲Relf
but I don't think it'll run on George G's computer,
seeing as 1996 was the last time he updated it.
George G doesn't listen to Eminem, or gansta rap, you can be sure,
he's still enjoying Mitchell Parish's “ Stardust ” ( 1927 ).
By the way, Mr. Hall, I've changed my mind about you,
you were right about Chris Caputo's Alt.NET
being much better than Ray Banana's Motz !
In the unlikely event I have problems with Individual.NET
( 10 Euros per year ) I'd switch to Alt.NET ( probably ),
despite the fact that it costs 72 USD per year .. ouch !
But I still have to bitch at you because
I subscribed to OctaNews on your recommendation ( 11.25 + 1 USD ).
Five days later, I've got no posting privileges,
no refund .. no response at all from those scam artists !
How do I get OctaNews' internal Article Number from a Message-ID ?
All the other servers do it via the XRef field.
Gregory Hall
"Jeff?Relf" <Jeff...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote in message
news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.30.3pm.36k...
> Thunderbird is a modern, UTF-8-aware, highly customizable newsreader,
> but I don't think it'll run on George G's computer,
> seeing as 1996 was the last time he updated it.
>
> George G doesn't listen to Eminem, or gansta rap, you can be sure,
> he's still enjoying Mitchell Parish's " Stardust " ( 1927 ).
>
> By the way, Mr. Hall, I've changed my mind about you,
> you were right about Chris Caputo's Alt.NET
> being much better than Ray Banana's Motz !
Right on, brother!
> In the unlikely event I have problems with Individual.NET
> ( 10 Euros per year ) I'd switch to Alt.NET ( probably ),
> despite the fact that it costs 72 USD per year .. ouch !
I guess some people have to pinch their pennys but not me. I've made a small
fortune with words. It's amazing.
>
> But I still have to bitch at you because
> I subscribed to OctaNews on your recommendation ( 11.25 + 1 USD ).
>
> Five days later, I've got no posting privileges,
> no refund .. no response at all from those scam artists !
Sorry to hear that. I got a block account from them and it seems like it
took about a week to get posting privelegs - something to do with e-mail
filters filtering out the required e-mailed requests - once I got instated
it's worked without a hitch since. Seems I recall there are octanews local
groups that Octanews subscribers can access. Check their web site for that
info. The admin monitors the local sites from time to time and a post or two
there stating your problem and asking for help might get better results than
e-mail. But, patience is required when there's a snafu because, well, you
will see when you read the local groups.
>
> How do I get OctaNews' internal Article Number from a Message-ID ?
> All the other servers do it via the XRef field.
>
Outlook Express lists the X-Ref: number in my Octanews posts but I can't
even tell what news reader you're using so I don't know why it doesn't list
it. Apparently Octanews server does add it if the headers haven't been too
tweaked in your reader.
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
<Bill> wrote in message news:22ngdl....@news.alt.net...
> "Gregory Hall" <greg...@home.fake> wrote:
>
> [...]
>>or is it that you just cannot turn loose of your fetish,
>
> Prove you're the better man and let go of yours first.
And which one would that be? I have so danged many of them . . .
--
Gregory Hall
George G
in news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.30.3pm.36k:
[...]
> George G doesn't listen to Eminem, or gansta rap, you can be
> sure,
That's a good thing, ain't it?
he's still enjoying Mitchell Parish's “ Stardust ” (
> 1927 ).
Michael Parish's what?
I'm sorry, you conceited fuckwit, but I ain't changing newsreaders
just so I can see the pretty triangle that you insist using in your
nym.
George G
news:22nbqq....@news.alt.net:
Why do you care, did you want to suck my cock?
George G
>
> "George G" <grgg...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:_B4kk.260120$Uf4.2...@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>> Chris Caputo <cca...@alt.net> wrote in
>> news:22ms7h....@news.alt.net:
>>
>>> George G <grgg...@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>Read this path.
>>>>
>>>>Path:
>>>>core-iad-easynews!news-in-02-iad.easynews.com!s05-b13.iad!
>>>>216.246.80.254.MISMATCH!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!
>>>>69.16.185.21.MISMATCH!npeer03.iad!news.highwinds-media.com!fe
>>>>ed - me.highwinds-media.com!news.alt.net!worldnet.att.net!
>>>>63.218.45.10!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!
>>>>216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!newshub.sdsu.edu!feeder.erje.net!
>>>>news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!not-for-mail
>>>>
>>>>Is it clear it originates from Altopia?
>>>>No? Well then how do you fucking report it? Answer, you
>>>>can't. Furthermore, CC has said that if people are too
>>>>stupid to read the path header to send complaints, then
>>>>their complaint probably has no merit. Nice, eh?
>>>
>>> If you think the above Path: was from a post that originated
>>> at Altopia, what is the message-id?
>>
>> MID: <d5ac84lsvbnrtmk34...@kkk.com>.
>> And in MID: <22j56g....@news.alt.net> you confirmed it
>> came from Altopia.
>
> You seem to suffer from dementia like poor old Phlat_arse.
> That kkk.com ID is an old post Mr. Mouch wrote [The Return of
> Wesley Mouch] prior to his having a conversation with Altopia
> as to how to preload a path correctly and, about a week later,
> how to not use a registered domain without permission.
Where did I say it was a new post, MensaTard? My point is that no
one knew where to send the abuse complaint to, so how can one
complain about path preloading that violates Altopia's AUP? You
adding a complaints header to motzarella helped confuse things even
further. You're lucky Altopia tolerates this sort of behaviour,
most NSPs would have TOSd you without a second thought.
snipped rest of Neal Warren's blather.
Gregory Hall
Ha ha ha! You're just upset because I short-circuited your bothering a busy
admin who probably has better things to do than waste time with your
obfuscation and never ending whining.
And, you were even more upset and frustrated in the beginning because you
weren't able to figure out who to complain to. Poor little thing! Ruins
your day when you can't find an audience for your complaints? That's so
tragic.
You know I think I've figured out what REALLY bothers most of you Rubes.
It's that you are too stupid to decompile a news reader executable and
re-write the code to make it do what you want it to do. Well, that's your
problem, not mine.
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
Sorry, but I don't like loose women!
--
Gregory Hall
Jim Rose
> MID:
This "man" also posts to the uk.media.tv.misc newsgroup under the name
"Froot Bat".
He's a troll.
His troll posts about Altopia are the same there too.
Jeff▲Relf
Now I have hope that OctaNews might yet answer my emails.
I'll check out the “ OctaNews local groups ”.
I'm looking at OctaNews' raw headers, and I don't see the XRef field;
but, because you're seeing them, my guess is that
it gets turned on when posting privileges are granted .. I hope.
I wrote my own newsreader, it's called X.EXE,
you can read about it at my website: “ JeffRelf.F-M.FM ”.
“ F-M.FM ” is a fantastic email / web hosting service, by the way,
it gives you “ unlimited aliases ” via “ subdomain addressing ”;
e.g. “ On_The_Fly @ JeffRelf .F-M .FM ”.
You told me:
“ I've made a small fortune with words. It's amazing. ”.
How so, if you don't mind me asking. radio ?
Jeff▲Relf
“ Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Jul.30_pmH.8.14 ” tells me it was posted
July 30th, 8:14 pm ( Seattle time ) and “ H ” ( 10 ) seconds,
Base62 ( A-Z, a-z, 0-9 ).
“ .14 ” isn't a valid TLD, of course, but it doesn't have to be;
No spammer worth his salt would think it was an email address.
I've been trying to make my MIDs more readable for me,
given my editor's C++ syntax highlighting ( Visual Studio 2008 ).
The dots before the numbers ensures that they're highlighted as numbers:
RGB( 0, 144, 144 ) on black. the rest is RGB( 144, 111, 111 ) on black.
I couldn't decide where to put the “ pm ” and the “ H ” ( Base62 ).
Looking at my Message-ID, I have to ask:
“ Is there a time and place without ‘ action ’ ? ”.
If not, then perhaps “ action ” is the fifth spatial dimension.