beta server
YottaNews Support
newsfeed.
IP: 66.150.105.20
Port: 119
This is experimental software to test some Usenet theories. This is brand
new software and the server above is a test bed for it. If you can't
connect wait 5 minutes and try again, if that fails wait an hour and try
again. Reports on "I can't connect" are not needed. A useful report
would be something like, "when I issue xyz command with the following
arguments it disconnects without any error message".
I would like to test it with as many clients as possible. It does not
have, nor do I have any plans on adding, support for non standard commands
like xpat, xhdr, etc... If you send it a non-standard command it will
just disconnect you. It should support any RFC977 command with the
exception of newnews. It does support the xover/list overview.fmt
extensions.
It has a day of retention, and will continue to grow for several weeks
unless we wipe the spool for some reason.
--
Steve
News Administrator
YottaNews.com/NNTPServer.com
DevilsPGD
YottaNews Support <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
>newsfeed.
>
>IP: 66.150.105.20
>Port: 119
>
>This is experimental software to test some Usenet theories. This is brand
>new software and the server above is a test bed for it. If you can't
>connect wait 5 minutes and try again, if that fails wait an hour and try
>again. Reports on "I can't connect" are not needed. A useful report
>would be something like, "when I issue xyz command with the following
>arguments it disconnects without any error message".
>
>I would like to test it with as many clients as possible. It does not
>have, nor do I have any plans on adding, support for non standard commands
>like xpat, xhdr, etc... If you send it a non-standard command it will
>just disconnect you. It should support any RFC977 command with the
>exception of newnews. It does support the xover/list overview.fmt
>extensions.
Why no XHDR?
--
Microsoft: Putting the PR into proprietary.
YottaNews Support
> FYI: This server disconnects on any invalid command, or at least any
> command it does not support, including SLAVE (an old one I know).
>
I've added slave, it will be active on the next restart.
YottaNews Support
> Why no XHDR?
It's stupid. It's like zipping an mpeg movie to "compress" it. I'll
explain a little better. The clients that use it are claiming it allows
them to download the headers more efficiently. In reality it's a very
inefficient method of obtaining overview/header/xover data. All of the
brain dead clients that I've seen try to use it actually download nearly
the same amount of data as using the XOVER command and burn up 50-100
times the CPU cycles doing it.
For example, a clients the uses XHDR to pull just the data, subject, from,
message-id headers:
date: 25
subject: 100
from: 30
message-id: 50
article number: 8 (prefixed to each line)
line termination (\r\n): 2 (each line)
Total: 245 bytes
An XOVER line consists of:
subject: 100
from: 30
date: 25
message-id: 50
references: 0
bytes: 6
lines: 4
xref: 50
article number: 8 (once)
line termination: 2 (once)
Total: 275 bytes
That comes down to ~10% savings in bytes downloaded, but the CPU costs are
through the roof. Each XHDR command causes the entire xover file to be
read and parsed by the server.
In a big group you end up with something like this happening millions of
times:
for each line in xover.file
scan line for x tabs (1 for subject, 2 for from, ...)
for each byte until next tab
copy to buffer
write line number to client
write buf to client
write \r\n to client
( the three writes (doesn't make a left) could be replaces with a single
write, but that would require using a temp buffer to store it in, ie
sprintf(), in either case it not good. )
That whole process had to be repeated for each XHDR command sent. Causing
the additional X{number of XHDRS} disk IO load as well.
Compare that to the efficient XOVER command:
for each line in xover.file
if line_number > start and line_number < end
write line
write line
Now, my software is even better than the typical above and 90% of the time
it can just do:
read xover file
write xover file
It never parses the file at all, just dumps it to the client.
So why have the overworked server parsing out xover fields when you have
thousands of clients running at nearly 0% CPU used? Just to save them 10%
of downloaded bytes? If they pull just one more header with XREF their
savings actually turns into a negative and they end up downloading more
data than they would have with an efficient xover command.
YottaNews Support
> YottaNews Support <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
> : No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full
> : binary newsfeed.
> :
> : IP: 66.150.105.20
> : Port: 119
>
> What software?
>
> Don't recognize the banner.
So far I've just been calling it UsEx for Usenet Exchange. I couldn't get
Diablo to run stable on my 64bit machines so I wrote my own from scratch.
So far it seem to be doing rather well, I have 150 people hammering it so
far, and it's using 4% of it's CPU.
Some answers on it:
It can be ran as a distributed system or standalone.
It will accept a streaming feed
It can pull headers via XOVER
It can be chained
It supports 64 bit article numbers
It's wrote in C
I may open source it - haven't decided.
The only module I didn't write myself are the MD5 and wildmat
functions, so the bugs are all mine. :)
It does some things differently, we'll see if anyone can tell.
YottaNews Support
> I don't know all the tech stuff but I know it lists every group as having
> over 8 million headers when using Xnews.
Yes, it will. It's a side effect. Any client that estimates the number
of articles by subtracting the high - low will get the wrong number.
There are 8 million articles, just not in that group. :) When you
download the headers you should get the real number.
Eric King
> would be something like, "when I issue xyz command with the following
> arguments it disconnects without any error message".
With NewsPlex 4.2, I get:
[...]
Last full groups.yes sweep is recent, asking about new groups only.
Sending: NEWGROUPS 050928 174432
NEWGROUPS refused: 500 what yo talkn obout arnold?
Error during NEWGROUPS: LIST refused.
Cannot read LIST ACTIVE response from 66.150.105.20 (5), EOF encountered.
[...]
LISTGROUP alt.binaries.dvd failed: 215 groupies are comin
Error during LISTGROUP alt.binaries.dvd: Error during LISTGROUP.
Cannot read GROUP response from 66.150.105.20 (5), EOF encountered.
Closing and reconnecting.
Connecting: TCP timeout -1 seconds, welcome timeout 180 seconds.
TCP connection obtained in 0 seconds.
200 UsEx Server V0.1 build Sep 28 2005 21:21:42
Connected to 66.150.105.20 (5) in 0 seconds.
XHDR LINES alt.binaries.dvd failed: 500 no, we will not add this command.
Error during XHDR LINES alt.binaries.dvd: XHDR LINES failed.
Cannot read GROUP response from 66.150.105.20 (5), EOF encountered.
Closing and reconnecting.
Not attempting reconnect, last failed tentative is too recent.
[...]
Regards,
Eric King
YottaNews Support
> Last full groups.yes sweep is recent, asking about new groups only.
> Sending: NEWGROUPS 050928 174432
> NEWGROUPS refused: 500 what yo talkn obout arnold? Error during NEWGROUPS:
I'll add at least a valid empty newgroups response. I'll add fully
supporting this command correctly to the to do list.
> 21:21:42 Connected to 66.150.105.20 (5) in 0 seconds. XHDR LINES
> alt.binaries.dvd failed: 500 no, we will not add this command. Error
The XHDR extension is not supported due to performance reasons. While it
could be easily added, I haven't seen a single valid reason for using it.
Clients should use the more server friendly XOVER command. It's just the
nice thing to do.
YottaNews Support
> Only those that ONLY fetch the headers via XHDR...
True, but since I currently could only allow XHDR on headers that
were part of the XOVER database anyway it's a moot reason. To be able to
pull headers like NNTP-Posting-Host would require either a select number
of "special", non-xover'ed, headers be indexed, or actually cause the
server to pull the article and extract the one line requested. In the
later case, the amount of work required to process a single XHDR command
in a large group is excessive. It's actually more work than a client
thats reads the whole article. Considering a single XHDR command cause
cause the workload of reading 10 million articles, it's just not worth it.
I'm not aware of any servers that allow XHDR on any headers just for this
reason.
It may be remotely useful to XHDR index a select handful of
headers and allow them to pulled. I can see a use for pulling the
NNTP-Posting-Host, Path and X-Trace headers. Adding a special
XHDR database for these headers may be useful to a small number of people.
> Which lead me to another question...
> Does your server do XPAT then?
That is most evil Xtension of all. That command can bring _any_
machine it's CPU knees with a handfull of connections. It's a DOS attack
waiting to happen.
head of bone
i can't get new groups or messages but i can download messages that
are left over from my other server.
Avi Freedman
> I would like to test it with as many clients as possible. It does not
> have, nor do I have any plans on adding, support for non standard commands
> like xpat, xhdr, etc... If you send it a non-standard command it will
> just disconnect you. It should support any RFC977 command with the
> exception of newnews. It does support the xover/list overview.fmt
> extensions.
Hi, re: the below, looks like the start and end #s are off between the group
welcome banner/active file/db(?) and xover.
I would expect lots of traffic in RGP.
Also, not sure but some software may not like the 0-padding on the article #s.
It would be their stupidity, true, but even so...
Thanks - new software dev is always fun. Lots of people looking at how to
get nex-tgen news stuff going now - but I will say that diablo can run on
linux/amd-64. Better to go with gentoo as a base than debian to do it,
though.
Good luck with the fun software stuff...
Avi
Connected to 66.150.105.20.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 UsEx Server V0.1 build Sep 29 2005 11:46:02
group rec.gambling.poker
211 8536208 0 8536208 rec.gambling.poker you have joined the groupies
xover 8536000-
224 XOVER 8536000 - 8785543
00000000000008573699 Re: Instantbankroll.com question kle...@yahoo.com 29 Sep 2005 02:26:26 -0700 <1127985986.5...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1127983900.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> 162 4 Xref: usenetexchange.com rec.gambling.poker:8573699
00000000000008647817 Re: taxes on online poker winnings "ukpoker" <Mark_S...@hotmail.com> 29 Sep 2005 02:42:36 -0700 <1127986956.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <dhftm3$ce2$2...@blue.rahul.net> 390 13 Xref: usenetexchange.com rec.gambling.poker:8647817
.
YottaNews Support
> YottaNews Support <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, re: the below, looks like the start and end #s are off between the
> group welcome banner/active file/db(?) and xover.
Yes, you found something. The group command gives a "validated" high
article count, but the when you don't specify a high number with the xover
command it gives you the real high number. Which could allow holes (holes
are bad) in the article numbers. I'll get this fixed in the next build.
> I would expect lots of traffic in RGP.
No as much as alt.binaries.x. :)
> Also, not sure but some software may not like the 0-padding on the article
> #s. It would be their stupidity, true, but even so...
I'm doing this a warning for clients so they are aware that that first
zero could be non-zero and they should deal with it, ie 64 bit article
numbers.
> Thanks - new software dev is always fun. Lots of people looking at how
> to get nex-tgen news stuff going now - but I will say that diablo can
> run on linux/amd-64. Better to go with gentoo as a base than debian to
> do it, though.
Yes, Diablo will run, but dreaderd (the reader side) has a file descriptor
leek when ran on 64bit machines. I spent three days trying to fix it
before giving up.
YottaNews Support
> No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
> newsfeed.
>
> IP: 66.150.105.20
> Port: 119
Just an update, I'm trying a slightly different history file format, which
means the hold history file is invalid. Requests for article by
Message-ID will fail on articles stored before this change.
Eric King
Just checked. It's OK now! Thanks.
> The XHDR extension is not supported due to performance reasons.
I've tweaked NewsPlex 4.2 and now, I get:
alt.binaries.dvd (1 remain)
Got article numbers from LIST
Previously empty group, 8636206 articles (0-8636205).
Performing (0 ranges remain): XHDR MESSAGE-ID 0-2147483647
XHDR failed: 500 no, we will not add this command.
Performing (0 ranges remain): XPAT MESSAGE-ID 0-2147483647 *
Cannot read XHDR response from 66.150.105.20 (5), EOF encountered.
Closing and reconnecting.
Connecting: TCP timeout -1 seconds, welcome timeout 180 seconds.
TCP connection obtained in 0 seconds.
200 UsEx Server V0.1 build Sep 29 2005 14:31:14
Connected to 66.150.105.20 (5) in 0 seconds.
Performing (0 ranges remain): XPAT MESSAGE-ID 0-2147483647 *
XHDR failed: 500 no, we will not add this command.
Got 0 server refs.
Performing (0 ranges remain): XOVER 0-
Cannot read XOVER response from 66.150.105.20 (5), EOF encountered.
Closing and reconnecting.
Not attempting reconnect, last failed tentative is too recent.
Error when overwiewing alt.binaries.dvd, last good article -1
Error when processing group alt.binaries.dvd: Last connection failure too recent.
Connection closed.
Did 2 TCP connects, sent 222, got 431 bytes.
Result: Last connection failure too recent, next exploration in 300
seconds.
In NewsPlex 4.2 Help, it is said:
If the news-server sends a 502 error code to refuse the XHDR MESSAGE-ID
command, NewsPlex will no more stop exploring the news-server. It will
first try the equivalent XPAT MESSAGE-ID command, and if this fails as
well, it will fail-over to using a plain XOVER for getting new article
information.
Maybe having a 502 error code will help...
Regards,
Eric King
YottaNews Support
502 means "I support the command, but you don't have access rights to it".
This is normally a incorrect username/password error code. A
client should abort on any code above 400. Sending a 502 code would
confuse RFC977 compliant clients.
Common error codes from RFC977:
500 command not recognized
501 command syntax error
502 access restriction or permission denied
503 program fault - command not performed
YottaNews Support
> I've noticed that you don't appear to support getting articles by Id (yet)
> either. Or does 423 mean that the article does not exist, as you will be
> building up retention ?
> Cute error messages anyway :)
It supported it until I erased the history file to try a different
format. Message-id requests should work on article that arrive after the
change.
Ernst Keller
wrote:
>
>This is experimental software to test some Usenet theories. This is brand
>new software and the server above is a test bed for it. If you can't
>connect wait 5 minutes and try again, if that fails wait an hour and try
>again. Reports on "I can't connect" are not needed. A useful report
>would be something like, "when I issue xyz command with the following
>arguments it disconnects without any error message".
>
Iget this Message:
There are to many messages to retrieve.: Retrieving Headers vor..... even vor a
NG with nearly no Traffic and also vor this NG.
Ernst
--
Was ist TOFU? Wieso finden die anderen meine Artikel schwer zu lesen?
TOFU steht für "Text Oben, Fullquote Unten". Das ist eine Unart, die einen
nicht nur in dieser Newsgroup, sondern im ganzen Netz unbeliebt macht.
Lies "Wie zitiere ich im Usenet?": http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren/.
YottaNews Support
> Iget this Message:
> There are to many messages to retrieve.: Retrieving Headers vor..... even
> vor a NG with nearly no Traffic and also vor this NG.
Your client has a limit setting somewhere. Change the limit to unlimited
or 0 and it will go away. What client are you using, btw?
Ernst Keller
wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:30:42 +0200, Ernst Keller wrote:
>
>> Iget this Message:
>> There are to many messages to retrieve.: Retrieving Headers vor..... even
>> vor a NG with nearly no Traffic and also vor this NG.
>
>Your client has a limit setting somewhere. Change the limit to unlimited
>or 0 and it will go away. What client are you using, btw?
I have never set a limit, I do not even know where to set it, I use Agent1.93
and this setting works for freeyottanews and biggulp and all the newsserver I
have tried.
Ferd Burfel
news:1127976543.22bdd0709f9ffa5b1b596c9d99f1f2a5@yottanews...
> No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
> newsfeed.
>
> IP: 66.150.105.20
> Port: 119
Having trouble downloading the list of groups, using BNR2. Barfs with a 500
error before it can finish.
Ferd Burfel
"Ferd Burfel" <fe...@burfel.com> wrote in message
news:j2__e.13477$eB3....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Which seems to prevent BNR2 from registering any of the groups. They show
up in the list, but aren't acknowledged somehow. A "Refresh" returns "211
13245983 0 13245983". I'm not well versed in all of this, but it seems its
saying that I've read all the articles in that group, when I haven't even
downloaded the headers yet.
YottaNews Support
>> Having trouble downloading the list of groups, using BNR2. Barfs with a
> 500
>> error before it can finish.
Do you have a log file? It should show what command was sent when it
received the 500 code.
Ferd Burfel
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:37:14 -0500, Ferd Burfel wrote:
>
>
> >> Having trouble downloading the list of groups, using BNR2. Barfs with
a
> > 500
> >> error before it can finish.
>
> Do you have a log file? It should show what command was sent when it
> received the 500 code.
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: Looking up host name...
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: Connecting to 66.150.105.20...
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: Connected.
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: 200 UsEx Server V0.1 build Sep 29 2005 18:19:13
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: mode reader
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: 200 reader rabbit was gay
9/29/2005 7:28:01 PM: help
9/29/2005 7:28:02 PM: 100 you are beyond help...
9/29/2005 7:28:02 PM: list
9/29/2005 7:30:24 PM: 215 groupies are comin
9/29/2005 7:30:24 PM: date
9/29/2005 7:30:24 PM: 500 what yo talkn obout arnold?
9/29/2005 7:30:25 PM: Disconnecting....
9/29/2005 7:30:25 PM: Terminated.
It bombs on the "Date" command?
9/29/2005 7:35:15 PM: Connecting to 66.150.105.20...
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM: Connected.
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM: 200 UsEx Server V0.1 build Sep 29 2005 18:19:13
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM: mode reader
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM: 200 reader rabbit was gay
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM: group alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.dos
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM: 211 14678714 0 14678714 alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.dos
you have joined the groupies
And the error log at this point:
9/29/2005 7:35:16 PM (Version 0.14.6.447 (Beta)): Invalid first Article-ID
(0), Server="New Server", Group=""!
It doesn't like a first article number of "0".
Ferd.
YottaNews Support
> It bombs on the "Date" command?
Somewhat fixed, at least it shouldn't hang up on it.
> It doesn't like a first article number of "0".
Nor, should it. I've fixed that as well.
YottaNews Support
> So next quetion, what do you consider the "right" way to get a news
> group's artical count?
It's a design limitation for the time being. There is no way for a client
to estimate the real article counts. I may in the future add support for
the group command reporting a semi-valid article count, but you still
won't be able to use the high-low = #/articles. It's not a issue for most
users as they always just download any new headers.
DevilsPGD
YottaNews Support <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:29:11 -0600, DevilsPGD wrote:
>
>> Why no XHDR?
>
>It's stupid. It's like zipping an mpeg movie to "compress" it. I'll
>explain a little better. The clients that use it are claiming it allows
>them to download the headers more efficiently. In reality it's a very
>inefficient method of obtaining overview/header/xover data. All of the
>brain dead clients that I've seen try to use it actually download nearly
>the same amount of data as using the XOVER command and burn up 50-100
>times the CPU cycles doing it.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I XOVER from one server, then XHDR
the Message-ID list from all the other servers I use
Sure, the odd time I'll find an article that was missing on my XOVER
server and I'll end up XHDRing more headers then I needed, but most of
the time, all you'll see out of me is a single XHDR per message.
Why should I waste several times the amount of bandwidth just to save
you a little CPU? Weren't you just mentioning how little CPU power
you're using?
That being said, if you don't bill for overviews then I don't really
care that much.
--
"NEWS SERVERS ARE NOT POWER BY HAMSTERS"
-- rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski
Ferd Burfel
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:39:27 -0500, Ferd Burfel wrote:
>
> > It bombs on the "Date" command?
>
> Somewhat fixed, at least it shouldn't hang up on it.
OK, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add the Date command, but as
long is it doesn't crash the reader...
> > It doesn't like a first article number of "0".
>
> Nor, should it. I've fixed that as well.
Yes, you did.
Thank you.
YottaNews Support
> OK, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add the Date command, but
> as long is it doesn't crash the reader...
It will get added just not today. :)
Maxx Pollare
"Maxx Pollare" apeared in history:
>> It's not a issue for most users as they always just download any
>> new headers.
>
> It'd be interesting to see what Hamster makes of it when I add it
> as a feed in a few moments... Backups made & logs on full.
Well that worked, well...
NOT! But I got log to share:
21:44:44 Sys {200} Starting "newsjob"-threads ...
21:44:44 D {200} Server 66.150.105.20 add to job list
21:44:44 Sys {740} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} Start
21:44:44 I {740} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} Connecting ...
21:44:44 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP.OnLookup from Hamster to 66.150.105.20:nntp use :119
21:44:44 Sys {200} All threads started.
21:44:44 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP.OnConnecting from Hamster to 66.150.105.20:nntp use :119
21:44:44 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP.OnConnect from Hamster to 66.150.105.20:nntp use :119
21:44:44 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > MODE READER
21:44:44 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 200 reader rabbit was gay
21:44:45 I {740} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} get server-info
21:44:45 D {740} [66.150.105.20] Loading <HELP> ...
21:44:45 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > HELP
21:44:45 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 100 you are beyond help...
21:44:45 D {740} [66.150.105.20] Loading <LIST OVERVIEW.FMT> ...
21:44:45 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > LIST OVERVIEW.FMT
21:44:45 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 215 it's more fun if you roll your own...
21:44:45 D {740} [66.150.105.20] Loading <LIST> ...
21:44:45 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > LIST
21:44:46 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 215 groupies are comin
21:45:00 D {740} [66.150.105.20] Loading <LIST NEWSGROUPS> ...
21:45:00 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP > LIST NEWSGROUPS
21:45:00 D {740} TClientSocketNNTP < 215 groupies are comin
21:45:00 WAR {740} Receiving data from 66.150.105.20 failed
21:45:00 I {740} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} Disconnecting ...
21:45:00 Sys {740} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} End
21:45:00 Sys {200} newsjobs for 66.150.105.20 ready
A third try without using "Reload list of group-discriptions" worked.
21:52:57 I {5e0} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} get server-info
21:52:57 D {5e0} [66.150.105.20] Loading <LIST> ...
21:52:57 D {5e0} TClientSocketNNTP > LIST
21:52:58 D {5e0} TClientSocketNNTP < 215 groupies are comin
21:53:05 I {5e0} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} Disconnecting ...
21:53:05 D {5e0} TClientSocketNNTP > QUIT
21:53:05 D {5e0} TClientSocketNNTP < 202 quiters never win
21:53:05 Sys {5e0} {newsjobs 66.150.105.20} End
21:53:05 Sys {200} newsjobs for 66.150.105.20 ready
Now for the pulls!
--
Maxx "What's That Score" Pollare...
* Score-File Dump: http://www.dragonfur.ca/nowhere *
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS
wrote:
>In NewsPlex 4.2 Help, it is said:
> If the news-server sends a 502 error code to refuse the XHDR MESSAGE-ID
> command, NewsPlex will no more stop exploring the news-server. It will
> first try the equivalent XPAT MESSAGE-ID command, and if this fails as
> well, it will fail-over to using a plain XOVER for getting new article
> information.
try NP 4.3 ?
use emulateXoverUsingXhdr=0 ?
--
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS, France
www.willemijns.com
www.nntpeng.willemijns.com (FAQ about open NNTP servers)
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS
> Doing an xover across multiple servers is a waste of bandwidth and server resources.
absolutly... false... when every servers will have same articles...
Tina Hall
> "YottaNews Support":
>>> So next quetion, what do you consider the "right" way to get a
>>> news group's artical count?
>>
>> It's a design limitation for the time being. There is no way for
>> a client to estimate the real article counts. I may in the
>> future add support for the group command reporting a semi-valid
>> article count, but you still won't be able to use the high-low =
>> #/articles.
> Unfortunatly it's not just for group counts...
> Xnews uses it to detirmine whats no longer avalable on the server
> as well, so it can remove "invalid" headers from it's storage
> files.
> It's also nice to use the "Total Group" and "Unread" message
> counts as a gage of just how busy a new group is, rather then
> winging it and hoping that it doesn't crash you client.
With an internet access, one could use google to check the
'about this group' with whichever one looks interesting. It
lists numbers of posts per month, for the past years. Or is that
not accurate?
Unless that's not at all what you meant.
Yes, I've never posted here.
Google tells me it has been a month or so since someone asked
for a FAQ for this group. Consider this rectified (I don't want
anyone thinking people no longer care).
I found the website with 'tripod' in the name (don't ask me for
the full adress), the other two I saw mentioned (something with
'geocities', and the other perhaps 'home1'?) seem to have gone
away.
That still looks like the beginning of a long list of severs to
look at, so no worry there.
It doesn't tell me what people new to this newsgroup should or
shouldn't do.
Like, uh, rambling?
Sorry. My concern is what kind of questions are allowed to be
asked here. I'm new to all that funny internet stuff. Not
Usenet, but using the former to acces the latter is a book with
seven seals to me. Pointers to guides for truly clueless
beginners would be appreciated.
--
Tina ### XP v3.40 RC3 ###
Trolls dienen der Belustigung der Allgemeinheit. Das ist wie bei den alten
Roemern. You might cheer the lions or the christians, but you don't really
care about or respect either when you're sitting in the gallery.
NEW-COMCAST-GIGANEWS
and i have looked for settings to change so it will use the xover but can't
find any
or is the only news read that will work is xnews ?
YottaNews Support
> And here may be another reason to have accurate first/last counts, if I
> hadn't told Hamster to only grab the last 3200 post....
Let it grab the whole range in one go. Limiting to such a small range
may result in no xover lines being gathered. A feed is 60/sec so at 3200
you are only grabbing xovers from about 8-9 minutes.
YottaNews Support
> Unfortunatly it's not just for group counts... Xnews uses it to detirmine
> whats no longer avalable on the server as well, so it can remove "invalid"
> headers from it's storage files.
That will work just fine. The low counter will increase as articles
expire and your client will expire them as normal. The numbers aren't
wrong, they are just slightly different in the sense that you can't
calculate the number of article in a group by subtracting high-low. All
servers have this error rate, but mine is higher that others due to some
unique algorithms. That's the only difference. Once your client pulls the
headers it will have the correct number of articles.
> It's also nice to use the "Total Group" and "Unread" message counts as a
> gage of just how busy a new group is, rather then winging it and hoping
> that it doesn't crash you client.
Nice, is just that, nice. By breaking away from traditional Usenet
thinking new possibilities are available. Things you may not have even
considered possible before...
YottaNews Support
I've received reports of many clients working fine. Post a log file
showing where it is failing.
Marco Schmidt
>With an internet access, one could use google to check the
>'about this group' with whichever one looks interesting. It
>lists numbers of posts per month, for the past years. Or is that
>not accurate?
It's a good workaround, although it obviously fails if Google does not
carry the group. This is often the case with relatively new groups.
Besides, it's somewhat inconvenient to start a browser, search for the
group, click your way to the "About" page; at least compared to just
looking at the number next to the group name in your already-opened
newsreader.
[...]
>Google tells me it has been a month or so since someone asked
>for a FAQ for this group. Consider this rectified (I don't want
>anyone thinking people no longer care).
I don't think there is any sort of official FAQ. Some people gather
lists of newsservers and point to them in their signatures.
<http://newsserverliste.cord.de/> is well-maintained for servers in
the German-speaking part of the world.
[...]
>Sorry. My concern is what kind of questions are allowed to be
>asked here. I'm new to all that funny internet stuff. Not
>Usenet, but using the former to acces the latter is a book with
>seven seals to me. Pointers to guides for truly clueless
>beginners would be appreciated.
Just ask and ignore any ranting and off-topic replies. It helps if you
can be specific and if people can see from your request that you tried
something to find an answer yourself. But that's generally a good
idea, not only in this group.
Regards,
Marco
Eugène
>
> I've received reports of many clients working fine. Post a log file
> showing where it is failing.
It seems that Pan is not able to get the group list, because it tries to
get the group's description, and is disconnected.
Eugène
YottaNews Support
> It seems that Pan is not able to get the group list, because it tries to
> get the group's description, and is disconnected.
Pan is what I use. It works fine. Yes, it gets an unsupported command
response (500) on the list newsgroups command, but that doesn't stop it
from working. Extension commands are not expected to be supported on all
servers.
Dwane
alt.binaries.multimedia.vintage-tv, but 66.150.105.20 doesn't? If possible,
could you please add it to the beta server?
Thanks a lot,
Dwane
YottaNews Support
Sure. That actually shows a cool feature. All the articles are there
instantly, even for articles that arrived before the group as added.
NEW-COMCAST-GIGANEWS
09/30/2005 14:02:05 PROTOCOL=Signature Cache, MSG=Loading Cache: E:\Program
Files\nbpro\SIGNATURE.DAT
09/30/2005 14:02:06 PROTOCOL=Signature Cache, MSG=Loading Finished -
LoadTime: 828 Records: 409327
09/30/2005 14:02:06 PROTOCOL=Signature Cache, MSG=Loading Cache: E:\Program
Files\nbpro\POSTID.BIN
09/30/2005 14:02:06 PROTOCOL=Signature Cache, MSG=Loading Finished -
LoadTime: 0 Records: 9244
09/30/2005 14:02:06 MSG=Purging Old Spooler Chunks...
09/30/2005 14:02:06 MSG=Finished Purging Old Spooler Chunks...
09/30/2005 14:02:10 MSG=Processing Server: 66.150.105.20 Groups:
alt.binaries.pictures.youth-and-beauty
09/30/2005 14:02:11 PROTOCOL=Engine Process, SERVER=66.150.105.20,
MSG=Socket - Connection To Server Failed
09/30/2005 14:02:13 MSG=Processing Server: 66.150.105.20 Groups:
alt.binaries.pictures.youth-and-beauty
09/30/2005 14:02:13 PROTOCOL=Engine Process, SERVER=66.150.105.20,
MSG=Socket - Connection To Server Failed
09/30/2005 14:02:15 MSG=Processing Server: 66.150.105.20 Groups:
alt.binaries.pictures.youth-and-beauty
09/30/2005 14:02:15 PROTOCOL=Engine Process, SERVER=66.150.105.20,
MSG=Socket - Connection To Server Failed
09/30/2005 14:02:17 MSG=Processing Server: 66.150.105.20 Groups:
alt.binaries.pictures.youth-and-beauty
09/30/2005 14:02:17 PROTOCOL=Engine Process, SERVER=66.150.105.20,
MSG=Socket - Connection To Server Failed
09/30/2005 14:02:19 MSG=Processing Server: 66.150.105.20 Groups:
alt.binaries.pictures.youth-and-beauty
09/30/2005 14:02:19 PROTOCOL=Engine Process, SERVER=66.150.105.20,
MSG=Socket - Connection To Server Failed
"YottaNews Support" <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote in message
news:1128087425.f46e57dc5926c4a650f7ab48dce92902@yottanews...
Dwane
> Sure. That actually shows a cool feature. All the articles are there
> instantly, even for articles that arrived before the group as added.
Thanks Steve for adding a.b.m.vintage-tv. I appreciate it.
Dwane
googled
"YottaNews Support" <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote in message
news:1127976543.22bdd0709f9ffa5b1b596c9d99f1f2a5@yottanews...
> No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
> newsfeed.
>
> IP: 66.150.105.20
> Port: 119
>
> This is experimental software to test some Usenet theories. This is brand
> new software and the server above is a test bed for it. If you can't
> connect wait 5 minutes and try again, if that fails wait an hour and try
> again. Reports on "I can't connect" are not needed. A useful report
> would be something like, "when I issue xyz command with the following
> arguments it disconnects without any error message".
>
I can get the group list with OE, GrabIt 1.5.3 and BNR2, but only BNR2 will
download headers. OE and GrabIt return no error codes on the header update
requests.
YottaNews Support
>> All servers have this error rate, but mine is higher that others due to
>> some unique algorithms. That's the only difference. Once your client
>> pulls the headers it will have the correct number of articles.
>
> But still not the correct counts. The high count should always be the
> top article # in that group and the low number in that groups...
RFC977 says different. It explicitly states that the article count does
not have to be accurate. It a maximum number, not an accurate one. The
real proof is the fact that all these different clients are still working
just fine.
> Unless, no that's just dumb...
> Don't tell me you use a single artical count for all messages! How the
> hell do you account for crossposts to diffrent groups?
>
> I was wrong, you don't just break over half the news clients, but just
> about every news server admin out there will hate feeding you.
Why? Article numbers are for internal use only. They have nothing to do
with peering or feeding. The _only_ purpose of article numbers are to
give the client a way to know what articles it's seen and which ones it
hasn't yet. It's basically a time-stamp.
> Or in this case, into pure stupidity... };8)
You are so concerned with the tiny shrub that you're not seeing the
forest. The downside to my algorithms is that the article count estimates
are not accurate, but that is still legal per the RFC. The advantages are
too numerous to mention them all. With that said, the one disadvantage
could be corrected. It would require more work for the server and it's
not really necessary. Once the initial development is done I may write a
module to keep the numbers more in line with traditional servers.
Personally I think it's more work (CPU/IO) than it's worth, but we'll see.
I didn't intend to write a clone of existing software. Remember this a is
a beta test of new Usenet theories... Breaking the rules is bad, but
bending them a little can be productive. :)
Eric King
I did...
> use emulateXoverUsingXhdr=0 ?
It's the default value.
Regards,
Eric King
Eric King
> 502 means "I support the command, but you don't have access rights to it".
Never mind. It works fine here, now.
Thanks for the free ride,
Eric King
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS
>Are you saying that pulling the same data from multiple servers is not a
>waste of bandwidth?
yes and no, but when i see in my test not all newsserver who have more
than 2 days retention have not the same number from a same day (i.e
yesterday)
Ferd Burfel
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:09:37 -0500, Ferd Burfel wrote:
>
> > OK, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add the Date command,
but
> > as long is it doesn't crash the reader...
>
> It will get added just not today. :)
Fair enough.
The problem now is that your server having a false number of "millions" of
articles is causing BNR2 to barf. It apparently allocates database space
for the number of articles reported. A given group's database for your
server is 87MB, while for another server is 17KB. BNR2 is notorious for
decreasing stability with increasing database size. The databases can be
deleted, but they go back to the enormous size whenever headers are pulled.
I know this isn't your problem directly, but it is why I can't use your
server.
Thanks anyway.
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall:
>> With an internet access, one could use google to check the
>> 'about this group' with whichever one looks interesting. It
>> lists numbers of posts per month, for the past years. Or is that
>> not accurate?
> It's a good workaround, although it obviously fails if Google
> does not carry the group. This is often the case with relatively
> new groups.
That's good to know. How long do they usually take to turn up
there?
> Besides, it's somewhat inconvenient to start a browser, search
> for the group, click your way to the "About" page; at least
> compared to just looking at the number next to the group name
> in your already-opened newsreader.
I imagine it is.
>> Google tells me it has been a month or so since someone asked
>> for a FAQ for this group. Consider this rectified (I don't want
>> anyone thinking people no longer care).
> I don't think there is any sort of official FAQ. Some people
> gather lists of newsservers and point to them in their
> signatures. <http://newsserverliste.cord.de/> is well-maintained
> for servers in the German-speaking part of the world.
There seem to be some issues with the hierarchy of one
particular newsgroup I'd like, and Germany (mainly, no one wants
it), but looking can't do harm. I've added that to the list of
things to look at. Thanks.
>> Sorry. My concern is what kind of questions are allowed to be
>> asked here. I'm new to all that funny internet stuff. Not
>> Usenet, but using the former to acces the latter is a book with
>> seven seals to me. Pointers to guides for truly clueless
>> beginners would be appreciated.
> Just ask and ignore any ranting and off-topic replies. It helps
> if you can be specific and if people can see from your request
> that you tried something to find an answer yourself. But that's
> generally a good idea, not only in this group.
Yep.
I'd prefer to just find the answers by searching, too, but my
skills at that are next to nonexistent. Looking for something
like "Beginners' guide to Newsserver terms" doesn't yield
anything likely looking. I don't need guides for how to read and
post to Usenet, or how it works, but just something about the
technical terms used for what makes Usenet available via
internet.
(So that I can configure the software to try that way. That, and
the websites, mention all sorts of things as if everyone knows
what they mean. I do not mention specific terms because
explaining them here would not answer the question. There are
always new terms turning up. Someone somewhere else directed me
to <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html> and I don't even
understand the website's headers, never mind finding anything
helpful there.)
V S Rawat
> On 30 Sep 2005 19:58:27 GMT, Ed <veg...@stripbigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you saying that pulling the same data from multiple servers is
> > not a waste of bandwidth?
>
> yes and no, but when i see in my test not all newsserver who have more
> than 2 days retention have not the same number from a same day (i.e
> yesterday)
The simple explanation could be that these servers are located in
different countries thus their dates are set to the clock of their
country. If some server is in Los Angeles and other in Berlin, the
might have some 6 hours difference in "day" thus the count changes.
As far as your point about downloading same data from different
servers, if you are using some good local server (like Hamster) it will
sense duplicates on different servers and will download only single
article.
YottaNews Support
> But if Xnews doesn't know that number:
>
> 06:01:47 I {2c0} > ARTICLE
> <1128085456.1dd5c831353461b24ec1d0f32a021fc2@yottanews> 06:01:47 I
> {2c0} < 220 6905 <1128085456.1dd5c831353461b24ec1d0f32a021fc2@yottanews>
> article 06:01:47 D {2c0} < .
>
> I'm assuming you've already coded for those instences?
Yes, requests by message-id work fine. Requests by numbers are
better/faster, but message-id will also work.
Marco Schmidt
>That's good to know. How long do they usually take to turn up
>there?
Good question, I have no idea. I recently wanted to write them to
include a new group, but I never found a contact form or mail address.
Seems to be all about their own Web groups now.
[...]
>I'd prefer to just find the answers by searching, too, but my
>skills at that are next to nonexistent. Looking for something
>like "Beginners' guide to Newsserver terms" doesn't yield
>anything likely looking. I don't need guides for how to read and
>post to Usenet, or how it works, but just something about the
>technical terms used for what makes Usenet available via
>internet.
I don't think there is one big tutorial for everything that is Usenet.
You have differentiate between news server and client. There are
tutorials for both, with server tutorials being very technical (for
obvious reasons, few people run servers and it usually is much more
complicated than installing a client).
>(So that I can configure the software to try that way. That, and
>the websites, mention all sorts of things as if everyone knows
>what they mean. I do not mention specific terms because
>explaining them here would not answer the question. There are
>always new terms turning up. Someone somewhere else directed me
>to <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html> and I don't even
>understand the website's headers, never mind finding anything
>helpful there.)
I don't know how much experience you have, but maybe the English and
German Wikipedias can be of help:
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Usenet>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet>
Then there are the groups news.software.nntp and news.software.readers
to ask questions about specific terms with the protocol and software
implementing it.
Regards,
Marco
Marco Schmidt
>There's also the XNA factor, something that Google may or maynot take
>into acount when creating those counts.
Good point. I just tried to figure out the difference between their
counts and my own, but I don't get a conclusive result.
Sometimes they have a lot more messages for a given month, even if I
don't filter in a group. I guess their spam filters aren't as picky as
the one running on my feed.
On the other hand, in some cases their article count is a bit smaller
than mine, which could mean that they do not count the XNAY articles.
A group which usually doesn't get much spam and has a lot of XNAY
authors would be helpful to figure this out.
Regards,
Marco
Lenny Nero
> Sébastien WILLEMIJNS <seba...@willemijns.com> wrote in
> news:433cf69f$0$13476$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com:
>
>> On 30 Sep 2005 05:06:23 GMT, Ed <veg...@stripbigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Doing an xover across multiple servers is a waste of bandwidth and
>>> server resources.
>>
>> absolutly... false... when every servers will have same articles...
>>
>>
> Are you saying that pulling the same data from multiple servers is not a
> waste of bandwidth?
Yep I think it is a waste and I think you do the same as I 'try' to,
using only one server for the full (Xover) list and then just the msg-ID's
from others (that I think will have most of them) and the rest I just ask
for the msg-ID when needed and only per article.
I could not get the test yotta to work with BNR3 and dont want to pull
overviews if I dont have to, but as a help for the test (cheers) I have
setup a bnr just for it to see if there are any problems, but as you I
have not got anything back for the few groups I tried to get overviews.
L.
--
If you are getting errors with Biggulp try the Faq.
http://www.readfreenews.com/biggulp-faq.html
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS
>The simple explanation could be that these servers are located in
>different countries thus their dates are set to the clock of their
>country. If some server is in Los Angeles and other in Berlin, the
>might have some 6 hours difference in "day" thus the count changes.
eh no... i find date with "XHDR DATE" and whatever the country or
timezone it is the same on every newsserver... these kind of data
never change...
>As far as your point about downloading same data from different
>servers, if you are using some good local server (like Hamster) it will
>sense duplicates on different servers and will download only single
>article.
yes but you must DL every headers (every msg-id on the group) :->
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall:
>> That's good to know. How long do they usually take to turn up
>> there?
> Good question, I have no idea.
"Gute Frage. Naechste Frage." <g>
> I recently wanted to write them to include a new group, but I never
> found a contact form or mail address. Seems to be all about their own
> Web groups now.
A paranoid might think they're trying to sneakily take over Usenet;
slowly have the real newsgroups fade away and be replaced by their
fakes.
>> I'd prefer to just find the answers by searching, too, but my
>> skills at that are next to nonexistent. Looking for something
>> like "Beginners' guide to Newsserver terms" doesn't yield
>> anything likely looking. I don't need guides for how to read and
>> post to Usenet, or how it works, but just something about the
>> technical terms used for what makes Usenet available via
>> internet.
> I don't think there is one big tutorial for everything that is
> Usenet.
Good, that's not what I'm asking for, anyway.
> You have differentiate between news server and client.
My concern is the connection between the two. What other funny things go
on isn't really anything I have to worry about. I know the software I
want to use (which I think is what you mean by 'client'). Using it to
download newsgroups from a newsserver, and everything involved, is the
mystery.
I'm in no hurry, I need a usable email adress, too, anyway. And that's
another mystery.
(As might be obvious, I'm not using internet/newsserver stuff to post
this.)
> There are tutorials for both, with server tutorials being very
> technical (for obvious reasons, few people run servers and it
> usually is much more complicated than installing a client).
That looks as if we're talking at cross purposes here. I'm looking for
tutorials from the user-viewpoint, not the host (or whatever the name is
for the one running a server). I just want to understand what the
software is asking for to get configured, and get the needed information
from whichever newsserver meets my idea.
>> (So that I can configure the software to try that way. That, and
>> the websites, mention all sorts of things as if everyone knows
>> what they mean. I do not mention specific terms because
>> explaining them here would not answer the question. There are
>> always new terms turning up. Someone somewhere else directed me
>> to <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html> and I don't even
>> understand the website's headers, never mind finding anything
>> helpful there.)
> I don't know how much experience you have,
I've been posting to Usenet for years, just never using an internet
access. I didn't have one up to a week or two ago. Now I'd like to try
using the internet access, with everything to do with internet being a
big great (and dreary) mystery.
> but maybe the English and German Wikipedias can be of help:
> <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Usenet>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet>
I don't trust something where, afaik, everyone can add their comment
without verification.
> Then there are the groups news.software.nntp and news.software.readers
> to ask questions about specific terms with the protocol and software
> implementing it.
I'll have a look at them. Thanks.
Lenny Nero
> "Ferd Burfel" <fe...@burfel.com> wrote in
> news:7Zl%e.43$ff7...@bignews4.bellsouth.net:
>
>> The problem now is that your server having a false number of "millions"
>> of articles is causing BNR2 to barf. It apparently allocates database
>> space for the number of articles reported. A given group's database
>> for your server is 87MB, while for another server is 17KB. BNR2 is
>> notorious for decreasing stability with increasing database size. The
>> databases can be deleted, but they go back to the enormous size
>> whenever headers are pulled. I know this isn't your problem directly,
>> but it is why I can't use your server.
>
> Articles only is a useful setting for that server.
Ed are you doing this with a BNR2/3 ?
I have not had any luck getting bnr3 to work like this I just get 500
back.
Ferd Burfel
"Lenny Nero" <lenny...@hotmail.inVALIID> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.01....@DONT.change.UNDERSCORE...
> Ed wrote:
> > Articles only is a useful setting for that server.
>
> Ed are you doing this with a BNR2/3 ?
>
> I have not had any luck getting bnr3 to work like this I just get 500
> back.
BNR2 will do it OK. Don't know about BNR3.
Ferd.
Lenny Nero
I would have thought that it would be the same as (as far as I have been
told) it is just the back end of the BNR's that is different.
But I have now got it to work, what I did was set yotta test server to
normal pulled some overviews in the group I wanted but then set the server
tab to articles only so I dont have to keep pulling overs.
I think it needs the group cmd to be sent, but I can get it to work [ish]
with group off, but I get the Partial Response errors and the server times
out and closes after the setting I give it, then comes back to life
re-connects gets a few more then errs.
Sometimes I think this can be more of a BNR caused problem, because I have
the logging set to high for both BNR and the server when ppl want their
server tested. This is the only time I get the 'Partial Response from'
errs, so I feel it is a/could be 'what','220' or '500' or even something
that should not even cause an err doing it.
DevilsPGD
Nero <lenny...@hotmail.inVALIID> wrote:
>Ed wrote:
>
>> "Ferd Burfel" <fe...@burfel.com> wrote in
>> news:7Zl%e.43$ff7...@bignews4.bellsouth.net:
>>
>>> The problem now is that your server having a false number of "millions"
>>> of articles is causing BNR2 to barf. It apparently allocates database
>>> space for the number of articles reported. A given group's database
>>> for your server is 87MB, while for another server is 17KB. BNR2 is
>>> notorious for decreasing stability with increasing database size. The
>>> databases can be deleted, but they go back to the enormous size
>>> whenever headers are pulled. I know this isn't your problem directly,
>>> but it is why I can't use your server.
>>
>> Articles only is a useful setting for that server.
>
>Ed are you doing this with a BNR2/3 ?
>
>I have not had any luck getting bnr3 to work like this I just get 500
>back.
>
>L.
It works with a bit of kicking, you have to convince BNR2/3 to download
by Message-ID rather then article number.
--
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.
Tina Hall
> Tina_Hall wrote:
>> My concern is the connection between the two. What other funny
>> things go on isn't really anything I have to worry about. I know
>> the software I want to use (which I think is what you mean by
>> 'client'). Using it to download newsgroups from a newsserver,
>> and everything involved, is the mystery.
> Getting newsgroups over the Internet is the same as a private
> server, just point your software (client) to a newservers address
> and go.
?
There seem to be a bit more things to enter than phone number,
pointnumber, password, name, and a packer...
(I don't know what you mean by 'private server'.)
Besides, part of the problem is finding the newsserver's adress.
>> I'm in no hurry, I need a usable email adress, too, anyway. And
>> that's another mystery.
> Fake it, L...@invalid.com will do the trick.
That's possible?
Can't that get me into trouble?
>> I just want to understand what the software is asking for to get
>> configured
> Only a few items. Needs a newserver address
> IE: news.somenewserver.com (net, whatever)
I doubt that's the same adress as the webadress to go to to register
with the server. Is it?
This really would be easier with a pointer to a FAQ/guide for clueless
beginners (or a suggestion on how to find one). Trying to explain things
here will just produce more questions, mainly circling around "I don't
know what you're talking about, that's what I want a guide for."
And I don't know whether this is even vaguely the right newsgroup for
those questions. (Or the equivalent to talking about hints for a
computer game in a developer newsgroup. It looks the latter.)
> A user e-mail address (above) and a "handle" or some name to
> display.
Nothing about these funny protocol things? (Lots of mystic abbreviations
have turned up, what some people say mean different protocols.)
> You'll need a login name and password if the system is
> restricted to authorized users,
I should manage that. <sigh>
It's about the only thing I understand of what you say. (Incase that's
not obvious, I really don't know anything about that stuff. It also
looks as if not everything is calling the same things by the same
names.)
> almost all commercial and ISP newservers only allow access via a
> user/pass pair, or the IP/network.
"IP/network"?
>> and get the needed information from whichever newsserver meets
>> my idea.
> See their website,
I'd need to understand what the website is talking about.
One example. I had a look at Aioe.org. Somewhere it says something about
"our URI". I found an explanation for what an URI is, but am left
wondering whether that's what you above mean by the newsserver adress,
or something else entirely. And there were two of them, the difference
not being at all clear.
> or e-mail the server you want to use.
For a general explanation on what's involved in connecting my software
with a newsserver through an internet access?
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS
<spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
>newsfeed.
>
>IP: 66.150.105.20
>Port: 119
200 UsEx Server V0.1 build Oct 1 2005 10:37:46
group alt.binaries.test
211 31343445 1 31343446 alt.binaries.test you have joined the groupies
group alt.binaries.test.yenc
211 31343445 1 31343446 alt.binaries.test.yenc you have joined the
groupies
group alt.test
211 31343445 1 31343446 alt.test you have joined the groupies
group alt.test.test
211 31343445 1 31343446 alt.test.test you have joined the groupies
group fr.test
211 31343445 1 31343446 fr.test you have joined the groupies
grin ! xnews does not like :-(
Sébastien WILLEMIJNS
<spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
>newsfeed.
>
>IP: 66.150.105.20
>Port: 119
hum, article msg-id is not implemented ?
i has DL latest alt.binaries.test headers from bubba and i "override
server" to 66.150.105.20... i can not DL some complete multipart
binaries posted yesterday :-(
when i overide again to news.bubba no problem to download these same
files...
YottaNews Support
> grin ! xnews does not like :-(
I have not had any problems with XNews. I've used it myself.
J.P.
wrote:
>>Ed are you doing this with a BNR2/3 ?
>>
>>I have not had any luck getting bnr3 to work like this I just get 500
>>back.
>>
>>L.
>
>It works with a bit of kicking, you have to convince BNR2/3 to download
>by Message-ID rather then article number.
NewsPro and Usenet Explorer both will get by message ID from a server
with one click of the mouse. You can also set it to issue a "group"
command first for the few servers that require a "group" command
before offering up an article by message ID.
J.P.
--
Help keep the best *Free* Usenet servers running
http://www.readfreenews.com
seba...@willemijns.com
> > grin ! xnews does not like :-(
>
> I have not had any problems with XNews. I've used it myself.
crash on 98 with 128 Mb with default values
and out of memory with 256Mb on XP and virtual memory
i'm sure you are 1 Gb of RAM or more with your XNEWS config !!!!
in fact to do not or limit crash errors with these range of (small) RAM
values, you must limit header to 50000 and now you can DL headers...
creating range of 1 to up to 31 millions for evey ng (even empty) is
not logic... also if you only have 30 days retention...
i'm not surprising you must go on others ng to ask to stress it...
create a light NNTP server is a great thing but too light is not good
:-(
Lenny Nero
>>> Articles only is a useful setting for that server.
>>
>>Ed are you doing this with a BNR2/3 ?
>>
>>I have not had any luck getting bnr3 to work like this I just get 500
>>back.
>>
>>L.
>
> It works with a bit of kicking, you have to convince BNR2/3 to download by
> Message-ID rather then article number.
Msg-ID is the only way I use servers, I cant be wasting time getting
overviews from all of my servers :)
DevilsPGD
WILLEMIJNS <seba...@willemijns.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 01:53:05 -0500, YottaNews Support
><spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>
>>No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
>>newsfeed.
>>
>>IP: 66.150.105.20
>>Port: 119
>
>hum, article msg-id is not implemented ?
>
>i has DL latest alt.binaries.test headers from bubba and i "override
>server" to 66.150.105.20... i can not DL some complete multipart
>binaries posted yesterday :-(
According to the thread, this is working but only works for recently
posted articles since he had to toss the Message-ID --> Article Number
DB when it changed formats.
--
SCIENTISTS COMPARE APPLES AND ORANGES FOR VITAMIN CONTENT
"It's like comparing apples and oranges," says researcher
Tina Hall
> snip
>> There seem to be a bit more things to enter than phone
>> number, pointnumber, password, name, and a packer...
> That on a website?
No, that was just the stuff I had to enter into the software to
get Usenet without an internet access. (Through a gate.)
>> (I don't know what you mean by 'private server'.)
> 'Private' as in a company that sets up a newserver for their
> own users and perhaps the support / sales people to post
> and discuss company business on.
No, didn't have anything to do with that.
(Wouldn't know what that looked like, either. "Newsserver"
itself is one of the words that I've seen on occasion over the
years, but without any relation to it. It takes some time to go
from 'fuzzy word' to 'Ok, I have a picture of what it refers
to'. Looking at some helps, once I can post through one it
should be even better.)
>> Besides, part of the problem is finding the newsserver's
>> adress.
> news.anewserver.com <-- Usenet newsserver
> www.anewserver.com <-- Website for "anewserver"
Ah. Thanks.
I've seem something that starts with "snews". What's that?
<snip>
>>> Fake it, L...@invalid.com will do the trick.
>>
>> That's possible?
>>
>> Can't that get me into trouble?
> Not really, just don't use a valid domain, ie; yourfakename@
> buy.com Buy.com is registered. They spam everyone but I'm
> sure the mailserver process's enough incoming spam already.
Ok, thanks.
> It might be a good idea to decide how much anonymity you need
> too, do a check on some well known name/email at google for
> insight 'why'.
Is that a suggestion to find out that all the posts by (for
example) "Tina Hall" are archived for everyone with nothing
better to do to look at, or something that has to do with
increasing anonymity some other way, when already using a fake
name?
"How much" sounds like there are several levels of it.
>> This really would be easier with a pointer to a FAQ/guide for
>> clueless beginners (or a suggestion on how to find one).
>> Trying to explain things here will just produce more
>> questions, mainly circling around "I don't know what you're
>> talking about, that's what I want a guide for."
> All the guides I've seen are confusing. "I don't know what
> you're talking about" is explicit. Some ppl will cuss, some
> will try to help in a different manner, but it's no big deal
> to discuss setting up for Usenet here. Really.
Ok. You should know.
(I've just got experience with trying to get straight answers in
newsgroups. It never ends well.)
>> And I don't know whether this is even vaguely the right
>> newsgroup for those questions. (Or the equivalent to talking
>> about hints for a computer game in a developer newsgroup. It
>> looks the latter.)
> Caution: "only read my posts, if you pay attention to those
> other guys they'll get ya off course." :)
<g>
I don't mind digressing as long as it's interesting. Don't know
how such is viewed here, though.
>>> A user e-mail address (above) and a "handle" or some name to
>>> display.
>>
>> Nothing about these funny protocol things? (Lots of mystic
>> abbreviations have turned up, what some people say mean
>> different protocols.)
> Forget them they're meaningless. What you want is a good
> newsreader and a username and password at a good newserver,
To configure the software, I need to know what it's talking
about when it asks for <various mysterious abbreviations that
I've been told are protocols and other funny things>.
> and after you read this book-in-progress, you'll get one.
That 'book-in-progress' looks like a reference I'm not familiar
with.
>> It's about the only thing I understand of what you say.
>> (Incase that's not obvious, I really don't know anything
>> about that stuff. It also looks as if not everything is
>> calling the same things by the same names.)
> Ratz! The cabal was supposed to have conjoined all those
> terms. Somebodys gone to lose their hat over that.
Heh.
Just the hat? Shame, I hoped for something more entertaining.
>>> almost all commercial and ISP newservers only allow access
>>> via a user/pass pair, or the IP/network.
>>
>> "IP/network"?
> For instance, an ISP offers Usenet to it's customers they can
> allow customers access to it *and* disallow anyone else based
> on the IP address.
That's confusing.
The ISP (as I've recently learned 'Internet Service Provider')
I've got has nothing to do with Usenet. It's just the company
(whichever is cheapest at the moment - they bill by the minute)
used to get a connection to the internet. Basically, from my
end, it's just a phone number. They don't do anything beyond the
connection.
IP adress on the other hand is a term that's turned up on
occasion over the years, and I don't really know what it is, and
how it is assembled. I believe it refers to my computer. But
which part?
I keep wondering whether it's made up somehow tied to:
ISP (means it changes every time I use a different company for
the connection).
My phone number (the only constant in this).
Hard/software (means it would change if I change the graphic
card, for example).
Probably something else entirely.
I've tried a search for, afair, "IP adress composition", but
failed to get an answer that way.
What the I and the P stand for, I don't know either.
Network sounds like some company's network, or even just people
with several connected computers. Way outside what I'm doing
here.
>> For a general explanation on what's involved in connecting my
>> software with a newsserver through an internet access?
> Your software -> VSoup v1.2.9.48Beta [OS/2]
> If you plan on using Soup it's gonna take a while. Can you
> give Pro News a run?, it's all of 1.5mb.
What is it? A newsreader?
> There is another (better) newsreader for OS2 but I forgot it's
> name, I'll have a look around for it. This link is for a 30 or
> 45 day trial of Pronews:
Unfortunately I can't use OS/2 because I don't have software to
connect it to the internet. (I'd greatly prefer it.)
Besides, the plan is to, for reading/posting to Usenet, use the
same software I'm using now, with an addon to enable it to do
Usenet through an internet connection.
It's what I've been using for 10+ years, and would be difficult
to pry away from. It has the advantage that I know what it's
doing - with the only exception being the different kind of
access, which I'm asking about here. The general type of
information needed for the configuration for that should be the
same, no matter the software or newsserver.
<later>
I've had another look at that horror that is that addon. With
some wild guesses the software did connect fine to Aioe, got me
a list of newsgroups, got the newsgroup I wanted to test with,
and then refused to send off a post. (Problem: It hadn't placed
the file it was in where it was looking for it to send it off.
Don't know what to do about that.) Tried another version, but
that just does Really Weird Things.
The sad thing is (apart from getting a headache from all those
funny things in the docs and trying to figure out what the
software wants), I doubt anyone here can help with that rather
obscure software. Will have a look at their website later.
Francois Petillon
>> Why no XHDR?
> It's stupid. It's like zipping an mpeg movie to "compress" it. I'll
> explain a little better. The clients that use it are claiming it allows
> them to download the headers more efficiently. In reality it's a very
> inefficient method of obtaining overview/header/xover data. All of the
> brain dead clients that I've seen try to use it actually download nearly
> the same amount of data as using the XOVER command and burn up 50-100
> times the CPU cycles doing it.
No, your problem is mostly related to your architecture. If you have a
prebuild xover, then all others requests may be wasteful.
Dreaderd keeps a full header for all articles. A xover will be as
costfull as a xhdr, both on CPU (searching needed fields) and disk-IO
(as we work on a range and as headers are stored in flat file, we may load
several headers at once). Head command will be CPU costless and disk-IO
wasteful (there is no "head range" command and, to pre-load headers, you
have to make a guess).
If reads are done using 4x4KB pages and as I store 256 header per file
(1024 for binaries), a user can request 16 XHDR (64 for binaries) before
doing more disk-IOs than head command would do.
François
YottaNews Support
> I have not had any luck getting bnr3 to work like this I just get 500
> back.
An 500 error code means "command not supported". What command
are you trying to use? Please post a log file showing the
command/responses and I may be able to fix it.
YottaNews Support
> No, your problem is mostly related to your architecture. If you have a
> prebuild xover, then all others requests may be wasteful.
That is the case. My backend is what builds the xover line as it stores
the article. The frontends pull the xover line. It's already
pre-processed. The only thing needed is to store it on disk. When a user
requests the xover it just does a read and then pushes to the client. No
CPU is wasted processing anything. The xover data is also stored in
chunks (lines x-y). If the xover request overlaps more then 3 chunks the
frontend doesn't even need to look at the data at all except for the first
and last. It just reads the whole chunk and pushes it out to the client.
One read, one write. If I use mmap (planned for later) I could use a
single write (no read or tmp buffer).
In the case of 50 frontends. You have a handful of CPU cycles being used
on a single backend and 50 servers doing basically nothing. In the
diablo/dreader method you have 1 server that pushes the whole head and 50
servers processing it. You end up with an efficiently of N(x), compared
to N(1) for pre-build xovers. (N number of frontends, x amount of CPU to
process head)
The downside is that you can't xhdr for 'X-Google-Internal-Header:'...
Which may be nice, but not necessary for 99.99% of the people.
The plus side is I have 450 active connections (30 sec idle timeout) on a
binary frontend and it's using ~30% of it's CPU (2x 3Gh P4's).
Francois Petillon
> In the case of 50 frontends. You have a handful of CPU cycles being used
> on a single backend and 50 servers doing basically nothing. In the
> diablo/dreader method you have 1 server that pushes the whole head and 50
> servers processing it. You end up with an efficiently of N(x), compared
> to N(1) for pre-build xovers. (N number of frontends, x amount of CPU to
> process head)
I am afraid I do not understand what you are talking about. AFAIK,
managing incoming header feed is not _the_ problem (each frontend receives
an header feed and store it on local disk). Delivering xover/xhdr to
clients is a little heavier but biggest load on frontends is to manage
article requests (mostly to receive data from spoolers and to resend it
to the user, even without a prebuild xover).
> The downside is that you can't xhdr for 'X-Google-Internal-Header:'...
> Which may be nice, but not necessary for 99.99% of the people.
Probably but if it makes software writers to use head command to get
additionnal fields, then it is a real bad idea.
François
YottaNews Support
> I got "423 Damnit Jim, I'm just a server! {NewsPro: joining a.b.m didn't
> help]
423 means you attempted to download an article that does not exist.
Mark Zenier
YottaNews Support <spam...@yottanews.com> wrote:
>No user/pass is required (no posting either) and it receives a full binary
>newsfeed.
>
>IP: 66.150.105.20
>Port: 119
>
>new software and the server above is a test bed for it. If you can't
>connect wait 5 minutes and try again, if that fails wait an hour and try
>again. Reports on "I can't connect" are not needed. A useful report
>would be something like, "when I issue xyz command with the following
>arguments it disconnects without any error message".
Well, a couple of comments.
1. I've had it hang several times in a large group, the timeout
is probably too short for my crummy dial-up line.
2. Does the user community want cancels in their mix when fetching by
newsgroup? (I use this as a feed into the old C-News so that it knew what
to do with them (grumble), but I don't think most newsreaders would care).
3. A lovely bug. When fetching comp.arch.embedded with this
overview.
F 00000000000058046692
=?gb2312?B?TVNJyKvH8tS2vuDNxrz2z7XNsyAtILjvw/zQ1EludGVybmV00NDP+s+1vXk=?=
"MSI Singapore" <soni...@gmail.com>
6 Oct 2005 00:56:03 -0700
<1128585363.1...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
1978
27
Xref: usenetexchange.com comp.arch.embedded:58046692
I got this
Path: usex!statler.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!canary.octanews.net!news-out.octanews.net!teal.octanews.net!news-out2.kabelfoon.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!xindi.nntp.kabelfoon.nl!news.astraweb.com!newsrouter-eu.astraweb.com!not-for-mail
From: K...@vo.fr (Kenavo)
Sender: K...@vo.fr
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.cartoons.french
Subject: (Kenavo Poste) [03/57] - "Oui_oui_01.part01.rar" yEnc (032/206)
X-Newsposter: YENC-POWER-POST-A&A-v11b-FR (Modified POWER-POST www.CosmicWolf.com)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 08:32:33 GMT
Lines: 1938
Message-ID: <4344e11d$0$1603$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>
Organization: Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 54726a33.news.astraweb.com
X-Trace: DXC=FJcUWDSdQFFo;ii5o?B_6AL?0kYOcDh@J1I;RlOV<?XMSWHa8S3GO8A\mHB;6X6JjFV\3OH]ilX?C5IV^_GFD7UK
Xref: usenetexchange.com alt.binaries.cartoons.french:58046692
Enjoy.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)