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Free Rocksolid Usenet Access with Web Front End
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Free Usenet Access
Mar 2, 2023, 4:28:10āÆAM3/2/23
to
Rocksolid provides free NNTP access as well as a web front end. Users
may access the service using a NNTP client or a web browser.
Signup: http://novabbs.org/common/register.php.
The instructions for using a client are located at:
http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
Users must authenticate to post. Get credentials at the signup link.
Newsreader Access:
v77lu6t26velvaddm4gibyzd5sogskuczp7vwoc4vxmukvvaucva.b32.i2p
zkcvkb5xprurx5dvpanhyivneuzah6k6xayxgxd4h2ekklxgoi2x5aad.onion:119
news.novabbs.org:119 or 563
Say hello and thanks to the admin in one of the rocksolid.* groups.
may access the service using a NNTP client or a web browser.
Signup: http://novabbs.org/common/register.php.
The instructions for using a client are located at:
http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
Users must authenticate to post. Get credentials at the signup link.
Newsreader Access:
v77lu6t26velvaddm4gibyzd5sogskuczp7vwoc4vxmukvvaucva.b32.i2p
zkcvkb5xprurx5dvpanhyivneuzah6k6xayxgxd4h2ekklxgoi2x5aad.onion:119
news.novabbs.org:119 or 563
Say hello and thanks to the admin in one of the rocksolid.* groups.
Bugsy
Mar 2, 2023, 1:19:38āÆPM3/2/23
to
(Actually three things - but I don't know how to set up & use i2p
so I won't ask for that third thing until I look it up first.)
I consider myself a "normal" usenet person so they'd be unclear to others.
If I get a uname/password & point my newsreader to news.novabbs.org:119
there are two fundamental questions which aren't answered on those pages.
[1] Is it posting or just reading usenet newsgroups?
telnet news.novabbs.org 119
200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
[2] What are the newsgroups that can be read or posted to?
telnet news.novabbs.org 119
200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
list
[3] What the heck is i2p and how does one use it with an example?
(this is rhetorical at the moment because I didn't lmgtfy yet)
From that one test only, it seems that you can only read and not post.
Even if you do get a username and password?
Is that correct or am I wrong?
Whatever the answer is should be listed on those help pages, shouldn't it?
--
Please wear your mask!
Bugs are everywhere. :)
!__!
(@)(@)
\.'||'./
-: :: :-
/'..''..'\
Grant Taylor
Mar 2, 2023, 2:16:18āÆPM3/2/23
to
On 3/2/23 11:19 AM, Bugsy wrote:
> [1] Is it posting or just reading usenet newsgroups? telnet
> news.novabbs.org 119 200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN
> 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
I assume that if someone is offering Usenet / news server access that it
> [1] Is it posting or just reading usenet newsgroups? telnet
> news.novabbs.org 119 200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN
> 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
is for reading /and/ /posting/.
> [2] What are the newsgroups that can be read or posted to?
usually a try it and see if they have what you want, or ask as you have
done.
> [3] What the heck is i2p and how does one use it with an example?
different than, Tor.
I believe that people that are looking for anonymity and / or trying to
shirk local restrictions are the ones most likely to be interested in
i2p / Tor / etc.
> From that one test only, it seems that you can only read and not post.
them.
> Whatever the answer is should be listed on those help pages,
> shouldn't it?
manuals don't list the speeds and types of roads that the care can drive
at / on.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Free Usenet Access
Mar 2, 2023, 4:02:49āÆPM3/2/23
to
On 3/2/23 12:19, Bugsy wrote:
> Free Usenet Access <fr...@usenet.access> wrote:
>
>> Rocksolid provides free NNTP access as well as a web front end. Users
>> may access the service using a NNTP client or a web browser.
>>
>> Signup: http://novabbs.org/common/register.php.
>>
>> The instructions for using a client are located at:
>>
>> http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
>>
>> Users must authenticate to post. Get credentials at the signup link.
>>
>> Newsreader Access:
>>
>> v77lu6t26velvaddm4gibyzd5sogskuczp7vwoc4vxmukvvaucva.b32.i2p
>> zkcvkb5xprurx5dvpanhyivneuzah6k6xayxgxd4h2ekklxgoi2x5aad.onion:119
>> news.novabbs.org:119 or 563
>>
>> Say hello and thanks to the admin in one of the rocksolid.* groups.
>
> Two things are unclear to me just from the information shown above.
>
> (Actually three things - but I don't know how to set up & use i2p
> so I won't ask for that third thing until I look it up first.)
>
> I consider myself a "normal" usenet person so they'd be unclear to others.
>
> If I get a uname/password & point my newsreader to news.novabbs.org:119
> there are two fundamental questions which aren't answered on those pages.
You cannot use it without a username and password. You must authenticate
> Free Usenet Access <fr...@usenet.access> wrote:
>
>> Rocksolid provides free NNTP access as well as a web front end. Users
>> may access the service using a NNTP client or a web browser.
>>
>> Signup: http://novabbs.org/common/register.php.
>>
>> The instructions for using a client are located at:
>>
>> http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
>>
>> Users must authenticate to post. Get credentials at the signup link.
>>
>> Newsreader Access:
>>
>> v77lu6t26velvaddm4gibyzd5sogskuczp7vwoc4vxmukvvaucva.b32.i2p
>> zkcvkb5xprurx5dvpanhyivneuzah6k6xayxgxd4h2ekklxgoi2x5aad.onion:119
>> news.novabbs.org:119 or 563
>>
>> Say hello and thanks to the admin in one of the rocksolid.* groups.
>
> Two things are unclear to me just from the information shown above.
>
> (Actually three things - but I don't know how to set up & use i2p
> so I won't ask for that third thing until I look it up first.)
>
> I consider myself a "normal" usenet person so they'd be unclear to others.
>
> If I get a uname/password & point my newsreader to news.novabbs.org:119
> there are two fundamental questions which aren't answered on those pages.
to post.
> [1] Is it posting or just reading usenet newsgroups?
> telnet news.novabbs.org 119
> 200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
Username is the email address you signed up with.
> [2] What are the newsgroups that can be read or posted to?
> telnet news.novabbs.org 119
> 200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
> list
>
> [3] What the heck is i2p and how does one use it with an example?
> (this is rhetorical at the moment because I didn't lmgtfy yet)
> From that one test only, it seems that you can only read and not post.
> Even if you do get a username and password?
> Is that correct or am I wrong?
> Whatever the answer is should be listed on those help pages, shouldn't it?
You might direct your questions to the admin of those servers or a
search engine might help, or post to rocksolid.* help group.
Bugsy
Mar 2, 2023, 5:41:12āÆPM3/2/23
to
Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
> On 3/2/23 11:19 AM, Bugsy wrote:
>> [1] Is it posting or just reading usenet newsgroups? telnet
>> news.novabbs.org 119 200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN
>> 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
>
> I assume that if someone is offering Usenet / news server access that it
> is for reading /and/ /posting/.
I understand that you're saying we should be omnipotent, and that I'm
> On 3/2/23 11:19 AM, Bugsy wrote:
>> [1] Is it posting or just reading usenet newsgroups? telnet
>> news.novabbs.org 119 200 rocksolid2 InterNetNews NNRP server INN
>> 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
>
> I assume that if someone is offering Usenet / news server access that it
> is for reading /and/ /posting/.
stupid, where I get it that you think I should know this stuff already.
But I don't.
Worse, I know stuff that provides a counterclaim (see below).
So I get it that you're expecting me to already know what I asked them
to document when you say if they call themselves a news server then they
should be available for posting.
That would be a normal assumption but I can list free news servers (like
news.dizum.net) which do not allow you to post (as far as I'm aware of).
telnet news.dizum.net 119
200 sewer InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
>> [2] What are the newsgroups that can be read or posted to?
>
> Each news server likely carries slightly different groups. This is
> usually a try it and see if they have what you want, or ask as you have
> done.
servers (and this one seems to be in that same category of having one foot
inside of nntp with the other foot somewhere else, like i2p whatever that
is).
Given that it's not a "normal" nntp server, it might not carry normal
newsgroups.
If you think that doesn't happen, then you might want to recall that the
old news.mozilla.org:119 nntp server only carried the mozilla newsgroups.
mozilla.general
mozilla.support.firefox
mozilla.support.thunderbird
If you think that's a one-off of only carrying a very small subsection of
newsgroups, then you might want to recall that the gmane server is similar.
news.gmane.org:119
As far as I remember, that server only carried gmane groups, didn't it?
I don't remember actually, but then there's the dual purpose mixmin server
which is really a mail gateway anonymizer that acts like an nntp server.
Luckily, the telnet/list command shows a lot of newsgroups, but it's not
obvious which is why I'm asking for that so simply be documented better.
My confusion before I ran the list command was the way they describe their
hierarchy, which if you read what they say, they imply there's a
"rocksolid" Usenet hierarchy - which I have no idea what that even means.
To see what I'm talking about, go to this web page.
http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
Then look for this line.
"Rocksolid is also available from any usenet news provider carrying the
rocksolid.* hierarchy"
I don't know what that means but I originally interpreted it sort of like
how the mozilla server only handled mozilla newsgroups and nothing else.
They even mention their own newsgroup so that's more of an indication.
rocksolid.shared.rocksolid
>> [3] What the heck is i2p and how does one use it with an example?
>
> i2p is a form of overlay network, conceptually similar, but technically
> different than, Tor.
>
> I believe that people that are looking for anonymity and / or trying to
> shirk local restrictions are the ones most likely to be interested in
> i2p / Tor / etc.
nothing. It would be nice if they assumed a user like me who knows only how
Usenet works with a typical news server and then they walk them through an
example setup with i2p for their rocksolid server.
They can assume an email of f...@bar.com & a password of foobar for example.
Then they can walk a typical user who has already installed the i2p tools
through the setup for their rocksolid server.
If they did that just once, the rest of us could follow their example.
I'm not blaming them. They're busy I'm sure.
It's just a suggestion.
I would write it myself but I don't even know what i2p is yet.
>> From that one test only, it seems that you can only read and not post.
>
> It is common for news servers to block posting until you authenticate to
> them.
Remember that I can give you examples that don't work the way you assume.
So all I'm asking is for it to be clear that posting is available after
authentication, which it does NOT yet say on this web page (AFAICT).
http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
It's not a big deal but it's only one word "posting" that they can add to
that page to let people know it's not just a reader like dizum is.
>> Whatever the answer is should be listed on those help pages,
>> shouldn't it?
>
> As described above, some answers are assumed. Much like care owners
> manuals don't list the speeds and types of roads that the care can drive
> at / on.
It's the kind of stuff _every_ owners manual should have because it's not
obvious in every case to every user the types of things that I'm asking.
And remember, I gave you a valid nntp countercase for EVERY one of my
requests so it's not like I'm making any of this up wearing my tin hat
(now where did I leave that faraday cage anyway?). ;->
Bugsy
Mar 2, 2023, 5:52:57āÆPM3/2/23
to
the web page (AFAIK) so you have to assume that is the case, that's all.
http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
I can give counter examples (such as news.dizum.net) where you can only
read even if you authenticate (AFAIK) so that's why I asked that question.
All I'm asking is for it to _say_ on that web page that you must
authenticate to post. It's not a major request. It's a very minor one.
Also, as a noob, it doesn't describe what the difference is between
Rocksolid Light, retroBBS and novaBBS.
If they bother to have different names, then they're likely different.
But there's no link below the name with a paragraph explaining that.
I can guess though:
a. They're all the same usenet server.
b. They're all different usernet servers.
c. Some are the same, others are different.
d. All of the above.
e. None of the above.
It's not a big deal. It's just confusing to a noob. That's all.
I think a lot more would make sense if I set up the i2p that I already
installed but I'm looking for an example.
I could write the example for the company if I knew what I'm doing.
It would assume an email of f...@bar.com (for example).
And it would assume a password of foobar (for example).
And it would assume the i2p software is already installed.
Then it would walk me through the setup.
Remember how cable Internet used to have those setup instructions?
They'd have one page for IMAP servers, and another for POP servers and
another for NNTP servers (until they dropped the NNTP servers that is).
That one page of an i2p setup (assuming the software is installed)
would go a long way to helping noobs like I am to use the service.
I'll write it.
But I have to figure it out first.
kuzvanechka2
Mar 2, 2023, 6:46:10āÆPM3/2/23
to
You can register, then go to
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=alt.privacy.anon-server>
and read this group from there. I'm replying to you right now using NovaBBS.
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=alt.privacy.anon-server>
and read this group from there. I'm replying to you right now using NovaBBS.
Whatever
Mar 2, 2023, 9:05:57āÆPM3/2/23
to
working after I posted a test message. I never even had a chance to post
an actual message.
It rejects authentication now. I don't want to wasted any more time with
borked services. I think I'll go back to social media, which at least works.
Grant Taylor
Mar 3, 2023, 1:08:58āÆAM3/3/23
to
On 3/2/23 3:41 PM, Bugsy wrote:
> I understand that you're saying we should be omnipotent,
Nope. I didn't say nor imply that at all.
> I understand that you're saying we should be omnipotent,
> and that I'm stupid,
for not putting words in my mouth / keyboard.
> where I get it that you think I should know this stuff already.
Everybody has to start from nothing and learn things.
Some things, like much of what you've asked about, are poorly ~> under
documented.
There are many things that people learn when they are learning something
new. Sometimes those things are learned from documentation. Some other
things are learned by trial and error. But they are still learned.
> But I don't.
That's fine.
> Worse, I know stuff that provides a counterclaim (see below).
> So I get it that you're expecting me to already know what I asked
> them to document when you say if they call themselves a news server
> then they should be available for posting.
should be available for posting.
It may very well be that you can't post until after you authenticate.
There is also a good chance that some banners may not properly reflect this.
> That would be a normal assumption but I can list free news servers
> (like news.dizum.net) which do not allow you to post (as far as I'm
> aware of).
purpose Usenet server.
That's an example of the banner that is likely providing mis-information
and / or reflecting the fact that you've not yet authenticated.
> The reason I was confused is that _some_ nntp servers aren't really
> nntp servers
protocol, then it is an NNTP server.
Not all NNTP servers are Usenet servers.
> (and this one seems to be in that same category of having one foot
> inside of nntp with the other foot somewhere else, like i2p whatever
> that is).
orthogonal to NNTP.
> Given that it's not a "normal" nntp server, it might not carry normal
> newsgroups.
> If you think that doesn't happen, then you might want to recall
> that the old news.mozilla.org:119 nntp server only carried the
> mozilla newsgroups. mozilla.general mozilla.support.firefox
> mozilla.support.thunderbird
NNTP server.
> If you think that's a one-off of only carrying a very small subsection
> of newsgroups, then you might want to recall that the gmane server
> is similar. news.gmane.org:119
> As far as I remember, that server only carried gmane groups, didn't it?
> I don't remember actually, but then there's the dual purpose mixmin
> server which is really a mail gateway anonymizer that acts like an
> nntp server.
> Luckily, the telnet/list command shows a lot of newsgroups, but it's
> not obvious which is why I'm asking for that so simply be documented
> better.
But the most authoritative list of what newsgroups are carried is the
server itself. Documentation on a web page ends up out of date and
incorrect. So ... ask your news client or run the list command.
> My confusion before I ran the list command was the way they describe
> their hierarchy, which if you read what they say, they imply there's
> a "rocksolid" Usenet hierarchy - which I have no idea what that
> even means.
servers, hierarchie names go from the left to right. So the rocksolid
hierarchy or "rocksolid.*" newsgroups, are specific to the rocksolid group.
So rocksolid is either a private NNTP server or it's a hybrid server
that includes private groups and public Usenet hierarchies.
That's a list of NNTP servers that carry the rocksolid.* hierarchy.
> Then look for this line. "Rocksolid is also available from any usenet
> news provider carrying the rocksolid.* hierarchy"
Not all Usenet servers carry the rocksolid.* hierarchy. Some do. Not
all do.
> I don't know what that means but I originally interpreted it sort
> of like how the mozilla server only handled mozilla newsgroups and
> nothing else.
that aren't part of general Usenet.
> They even mention their own newsgroup so that's more of an indication.
> rocksolid.shared.rocksolid
Any news server is free to carry whatever hierarchies they want to carry.
News != Usenet
NNTP != Usenet
Usenet implies NNTP
Usenet can be carried over something other than NNTP.
> I'll check it out but it will take me a while since I have to start
> from nothing.
There are some in the alt.privacy.anon-server newsgroup that use i2p. I
suspect they will be willing to answer questions.
Though I would encourage you to be less hostile.
> It would be nice if they assumed a user like me who knows only how
> Usenet works with a typical news server and then they walk them
> through an example setup with i2p for their rocksolid server.
server providers.
> They can assume an email of f...@bar.com & a password of foobar for
> example. Then they can walk a typical user who has already installed
> the i2p tools through the setup for their rocksolid server.
their users will need. i2p is quite niche and won't have many users
compared to NNTP.
> If they did that just once, the rest of us could follow their example.
> I'm not blaming them. They're busy I'm sure.
>
> It's just a suggestion. I would write it myself but I don't even
> know what i2p is yet.
> Yes. I know.
>
> Remember that I can give you examples that don't work the way you
> assume.
There are some uncommon configurations that do allow posting without
authenticating. Almost all of which are a frequent source of abuse / spam.
> So all I'm asking is for it to be clear that posting is available
> after authentication, which it does NOT yet say on this web page
> (AFAICT). http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
people to communicate, and seeing as how posting is required to be able
to do that, it's sort of implied that there is a way to post to such
servers.
> It's not a big deal but it's only one word "posting" that they can add
> to that page to let people know it's not just a reader like dizum is.
>
> What I'm asking for is more like where the spare jack & tire are
> located. It's the kind of stuff _every_ owners manual should have
> because it's not obvious in every case to every user the types of
> things that I'm asking.
I would expect any public Usenet operator to provide a page that tells
> located. It's the kind of stuff _every_ owners manual should have
> because it's not obvious in every case to every user the types of
> things that I'm asking.
you what server name to point your client at, what security method is
supported, what ports to use, how to authenticate.
> And remember, I gave you a valid nntp countercase for EVERY one of my
> requests so it's not like I'm making any of this up wearing my tin hat
> (now where did I leave that faraday cage anyway?). ;->
the same thing.
William Stickers
Mar 3, 2023, 6:01:31āÆAM3/3/23
to
Whatever wrote:
[...]
accounts, two free accounts that I had to register with
to post, and I have access to an open server. Finding
anything worth reading is a different matter. You should
look elsewhere for that.
[...]
> I think I'll go back to social media, which at least works.
Getting an account is easy. I've got four paid block
accounts, two free accounts that I had to register with
to post, and I have access to an open server. Finding
anything worth reading is a different matter. You should
look elsewhere for that.
Skeeter
Mar 3, 2023, 10:31:22āÆAM3/3/23
to
In article <dskML.1398522$iU59....@fx14.iad>,
bill.s...@innocent.com says...
I never got the confirmation email.
bill.s...@innocent.com says...
William Stickers
Mar 3, 2023, 11:37:35āÆAM3/3/23
to
has gone to a spam folder), but I can't post with the
server, it refuses to authenticate. Not that I care. What
I meant was it's easy in general to get a usenet account.
Bugsy
Mar 3, 2023, 3:53:25āÆPM3/3/23
to
Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
> On 3/2/23 3:41 PM, Bugsy wrote:
>> I understand that you're saying we should be omnipotent,
>
> Nope. I didn't say nor imply that at all.
It's OK. I probably should have known it all but I think I figured it out
> On 3/2/23 3:41 PM, Bugsy wrote:
>> I understand that you're saying we should be omnipotent,
>
> Nope. I didn't say nor imply that at all.
because people on this newsgroup "said" you can post. All I'm requesting is
for the web page to say that so people would know they can post after
authentication and not just read after authentication (like some servers).
>> and that I'm stupid,
>
> I did not say nor imply that in any way, shape, or form. I'll thank you
> for not putting words in my mouth / keyboard.
part that I probably should have known the answers to what I asked just by
guessing - but my point was that I can easily guess wrong because I know of
some sites which don't allow posting even after authentication (I'm not
sure, for example, what the netfront status is).
>
>> where I get it that you think I should know this stuff already.
>
> Nope.
>
> Everybody has to start from nothing and learn things.
things which can be links so they don't clutter up the web page.
<1> It should state you can "post" after you authenticate (not just read)
<2> It should list the newsgroups that you can post to (using a link!)
<3> Somewhere it should mention binary newsgroups (not that I care myself)
> Some things, like much of what you've asked about, are poorly ~> under
> documented.
It would assume the i2p software is already installed.
It can assume bogus authorization credentials.
Then it can show the user what buttons to press in the i2p setup.
> There are many things that people learn when they are learning something
> new. Sometimes those things are learned from documentation. Some other
> things are learned by trial and error. But they are still learned.
figure out how the process works but which I could explain in ten lines
now.
Also it took me a long time in the beginning to get tor working with the
socks5 stuff and privoxy garbage where it's so complicated I just gave up.
Similarly with the orbox/orfox stuff on Android which was so complicated
that I just gave up. Same on trying to set up a Windows owncloud and/or
caldav server where sometimes it just turns out to be impossible (it works
on linux but not really on Windows kind of stuff you learn the hard way).
Same when I tried to set up my own vpn when all I really wanted was to use
an existing vpn service (which didn't exist long ago as they do now).
Lot's of things are complicated but almost all of them would be a lot
easier if someone who is providing the service provides a step by step.
I'm sure I even had this learning problem when I first set up tin maybe
twenty years or whatever ago, or when I first set up stunnel.
>> But I don't.
>
> That's fine.
>> Worse, I know stuff that provides a counterclaim (see below).
>
> I question the veracity of that.
Is that intuitive? Not to me it's not. Maybe to you but not to me.
The paga server doesn't do alt.checkmate (not that I care) but if I cared,
I'd want to know that, wouldn't I?
Those are minor but when you use the news.mozilla.org:119 server (which I
think they took down), it only carried like a half dozen newsgroups.
>> So I get it that you're expecting me to already know what I asked
>
> No I am not expecting any such thing.
If they don't tell you that, how are you supposed to know that?
My only reason for saying this is three things
<1> They know it (the server admins)
<2> The rocksolid site doesn't say it
<3> And yet a noob like I am needs to know it
>
>> them to document when you say if they call themselves a news server
>> then they should be available for posting.
>
> I maintain that if they are offering Usenet / news services then they
> should be available for posting.
counter case of news.tambov.ru:119 which offers usenet news services
without needing login credentials.
It certainly works (as I've used it myself in the past) but can you post to
this newsgroup? You don't know. You can only guess. And that's the issue.
> It may very well be that you can't post until after you authenticate.
complicated, like the news.gmane.org:119 situation where (as I recall) it
did NOT require a login/password so the credentials are blank/blank but you
had to be pre-approved by sending them an email request first.
That's not intuitive that it works that way, right?
Someone has to explain it to you as you'd never guess, right?
I think the easiest way to explain how (I remember) gmane to work is that
ALL groups are moderated by the gmane admin, not only moderated newsgroups.
> There is also a good chance that some banners may not properly reflect this.
but it is an indicator of listing if it allows you to list the newsgroup.
But why should someone have to telnet and list to know that the
news.tambov.ru:119 or news.mozilla.org:119 authentication-free open servers
only carry something like a dozen newsgroups or that the paga server only
allows four posts every two days (or something like that, I don't recall).
Or that aioe doesn't allow posting to alt.privacy or some other oddball
restriction when you would "guess" completely different than the reality.
> Dizum appears to be a special purpose NNTP server and not a general
> purpose Usenet server.
that, and more to the issue at hand is how am I supposed to know that?
It looks like a 'normal' usenet server to me from the little I know of it.
It just doesn't work the way you would "guess" it to work, which is why I
brought it up as a counterclaim to the "omnipotence" requirement. :-)
>> telnet news.dizum.net 119 200 sewer InterNetNews NNRP server INN
>> 2.6.3 ready (no posting)
>
> That's an example of the banner that is likely providing mis-information
> and / or reflecting the fact that you've not yet authenticated.
only know that from experience. Which is my issue with the rocksolid page.
It's not a major issue. But why should a noob have to guess?
They could add the four things I ask in a few minutes since they know it.
Then nobody after me needs to guess.
>> The reason I was confused is that _some_ nntp servers aren't really
>> nntp servers
>
> NNTP is the Network News Transfer Protocol. If a server speaks the NNTP
> protocol, then it is an NNTP server.
>
> Not all NNTP servers are Usenet servers.
Thanks. It's OK to be stupid as long as I can fix it with your help. :-)
>> (and this one seems to be in that same category of having one foot
>> inside of nntp with the other foot somewhere else, like i2p whatever
>> that is).
>
> i2p is a communications method. It's completely independent and
> orthogonal to NNTP.
for a noob assuming bogus credentials and assuming i2p is already
installed.
Since they know that and since no noob knows that, it would be helpful for
them to link to a web page that says what the i2p setup to their server is.
>> Given that it's not a "normal" nntp server, it might not carry normal
>> newsgroups.
>
> I believe you mean "Usenet", not "NNTP".
>> If you think that doesn't happen, then you might want to recall
>> that the old news.mozilla.org:119 nntp server only carried the
>> mozilla newsgroups. mozilla.general mozilla.support.firefox
>> mozilla.support.thunderbird
>
> Mozilla's news server was not a Usenet server. But it was very much an
> NNTP server.
depends on how a noob thinks about it. You're thinking like an expert.
As a noob, I know you could post to the mozilla.support.firefox newsgroup
using almost any NNTP server, so for example you could post using
nntp.aioe.org:119 or news.solani.org:119 or news.mixmin.net:119 too.
But it wasn't "exactly" the same result as if you had posted using the
news.mozilla.org:119 server because it depended on peering and the like.
My point is that I can give counterclaim after counterclaim after
counterclaim where what looks like a duck and quacks like a duck isn't
actually a duck.
It seems to be the same with the rocksolid server but I don't know that for
a fact which is why I would ask them to just say the four missing things.
>> If you think that's a one-off of only carrying a very small subsection
>> of newsgroups, then you might want to recall that the gmane server
>> is similar. news.gmane.org:119
>
> Gmane's server is an NNTP server but not a Usenet server.
a duck. You know it wasn't a duck. But how would a noob like me know if
they don't tell you on their information web page?
>> As far as I remember, that server only carried gmane groups, didn't it?
>> I don't remember actually, but then there's the dual purpose mixmin
>> server which is really a mail gateway anonymizer that acts like an
>> nntp server.
>
> Mixmin is an NNTP server. But that doesn't mean that it's a Usenet server.
Usenet newsgroups using your MUA by sending that email to mixmin servers.
But this is a great counterclaim example for the point that I don't even
know how to do that because I don't have an EXAMPLE in front of me to
follow.
So I would post via news.mixmin.net:119 in my newsgreader setup, but if I
had a written example of how to post using my MUA, I might try that.
But I'm a noob. So I don't know how to do that. I can't even guess how.
>> Luckily, the telnet/list command shows a lot of newsgroups, but it's
>> not obvious which is why I'm asking for that so simply be documented
>> better.
>
> That is a reasonable request.
rocksolid telnet, so I can assume that it carries "most" newsgroups.
But I did not know that until I ran the list command.
And, a counterclaim would be that if you ran the list command on the aioe
server, you'd see thousands (or whatever) but alt.home.repair wouldn't be
in that list (or that alt.checkmate wouldn't be in the paga listing?).
Now how would you know that as a noob?
> But the most authoritative list of what newsgroups are carried is the
> server itself. Documentation on a web page ends up out of date and
> incorrect. So ... ask your news client or run the list command.
things like "we don't carry binary newsgroups" or "we carry the main 8
hierarchies" or "we don't carry alt newsgroups" or something simple like
that which covers their principles (which probably don't change often).
>> My confusion before I ran the list command was the way they describe
>> their hierarchy, which if you read what they say, they imply there's
>> a "rocksolid" Usenet hierarchy - which I have no idea what that
>> even means.
>
> As you will learn as you spend more time in Usenet and / or other NNTP
> servers, hierarchie names go from the left to right. So the rocksolid
> hierarchy or "rocksolid.*" newsgroups, are specific to the rocksolid group.
> So rocksolid is either a private NNTP server or it's a hybrid server
> that includes private groups and public Usenet hierarchies.
Their principles shouldn't change all that often imho.
It's kind of like dizum only allows read so they can tell you that.
Also paga limits you to about four or five messages a day.
So they can tell you that.
You can guess. But why should a noob have to guess when looking at the
rocksolid web page for the first time to see if it's something they want?
>> To see what I'm talking about, go to this web page.
>> http://novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php
>
> That's a list of NNTP servers that carry the rocksolid.* hierarchy.
allowed posting to their newsgroups - but the list proved otherwise.
But why guess? They can say so in principle (which is a sentence).
>> Then look for this line. "Rocksolid is also available from any usenet
>> news provider carrying the rocksolid.* hierarchy"
>
> Yes, what of it?
>
> Not all Usenet servers carry the rocksolid.* hierarchy. Some do. Not
> all do.
Thanks.
It just means they carry a lot of hierarchies, and, they carry those too.
>> I don't know what that means but I originally interpreted it sort
>> of like how the mozilla server only handled mozilla newsgroups and
>> nothing else.
>
> Yes, that's correct. They were NNTP servers that carried hierarchies
> that aren't part of general Usenet.
were peered so they "looked" like normal newsgroups even though they
weren't.
It wasn't obvious to a noob who accessed those peered mozilla hierarchies
using aioe or mixmin or whatever (instead of using the mozilla server).
>> They even mention their own newsgroup so that's more of an indication.
>> rocksolid.shared.rocksolid
>
> Fine.
>
> Any news server is free to carry whatever hierarchies they want to carry.
>
> News != Usenet
> NNTP != Usenet
>
> Usenet implies NNTP
> Usenet can be carried over something other than NNTP.
way to go about introducing a noob to a new server such as rocksolid seems
to be.
Speaking of that, how long has rocksolid been running anyway?
Are they brand new like paganini?
Or old but new again like blueworld?
Or even old but nobody knew about like maddog.stanford.edu?
>> I'll check it out but it will take me a while since I have to start
>> from nothing.
>
> Ask questions.
>
> There are some in the alt.privacy.anon-server newsgroup that use i2p. I
> suspect they will be willing to answer questions.
>
> Though I would encourage you to be less hostile.
stupid but that's the whole reason I asked for the documentation.
A noob can't guess right all the time.
Even an expert can't guess right all the time.
I'm a noob with the rocksolid stuff.
But I don't want others to have to guess like I did.
They know the answers to the four questions.
They could just write them.
I'm not complaining.
I'd write them myself if I knew the answers.
But I don't.
>> It would be nice if they assumed a user like me who knows only how
>> Usenet works with a typical news server and then they walk them
>> through an example setup with i2p for their rocksolid server.
>
> I think that's the job of i2p client / community and not the Usenet
> server providers.
If you subcribe to eternal september, you get a nice email back that tells
you how to set it up.
Why can't rocksolid do the same when it comes to i2p setup?
They know it.
A noob doesn't know it.
>> They can assume an email of f...@bar.com & a password of foobar for
>> example. Then they can walk a typical user who has already installed
>> the i2p tools through the setup for their rocksolid server.
>
> Rocksolid is better off providing documentation for what the majority of
> their users will need. i2p is quite niche and won't have many users
> compared to NNTP.
Maybe they don't want noobs using i2p anyway.
It could be like giving a high school kid a brand new ferrari.
Not a good idea sometimes to play with the big boys without learning first
on a honda.
>> If they did that just once, the rest of us could follow their example.
>> I'm not blaming them. They're busy I'm sure.
>>
>> It's just a suggestion. I would write it myself but I don't even
>> know what i2p is yet.
>
> I suspect they would appreciate that.
>
>> Yes. I know.
>>
>> Remember that I can give you examples that don't work the way you
>> assume.
>
> I did say "common" and not "always".
>
> There are some uncommon configurations that do allow posting without
> authenticating. Almost all of which are a frequent source of abuse / spam.
allowing reading to it is a result of that so I won't disagree.
Same with paganini limiting the number of posts to about four or five.
All I'm asking though is for that information to be provided to noobs for
rocksolid because I have to assess whether or not it's worth the trouble.
Think about it this way. I know, for example, that battery jumpers they
sell have the SAME problems as the batteries you're jumping, in that I
bought one of them five years ago and now the battery is dead so it's
useless as a portable battery jumper (it still charges though).
Marketing isn't ever going to tell me the truth, so a review should have
told me that they're useless (over time) since they have the same flaws as
the battery you're jumping has.
If I knew that before I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it.
Same with my 110VAC welder and 2-inch wood chipper.
Same with the electric lawn mower.
Or the lightwight so-called mulcher that they sold me at Sears.
I had to go to the trouble of using those things to find out that they
really don't work (in terms of doing a job that you need to have done).
Why do I have to go through all the trouble to figure out how rocksolid
works only to find out, perhaps, in the end, that it doesn't actually work?
> Given that Usenet and / or news servers are almost always meant for
> people to communicate, and seeing as how posting is required to be able
> to do that, it's sort of implied that there is a way to post to such
> servers.
And it shouldn't change over time because it's one of their principles.
> I would expect any public Usenet operator to provide a page that tells
> you what server name to point your client at, what security method is
> supported, what ports to use, how to authenticate.
about i2p setup for a noob - but we covered that to death already.
Also what they don't cover at all is what's the difference between their
seven different servers? Nothing? Something? Who knows. I can only guess.
Rocksolid Light:
<1> rslight.i2p
<2> fev4bgoasgxttqb3x3tukxxia6lwryteq6a2ramqb2gjiol3zbu6xaid.onion
<3> news.novabbs.org
retroBBS:
<4> retrobbs.i2p
<5> retrobbs2.i2p
<6> www.rocksolidbbs.com
novaBBS:
<7> www.novabbs.com
As a noob, I immediately ask myself, what's the difference?
I don't know.
Do you?
How can you tell?
>> And remember, I gave you a valid nntp countercase for EVERY one of my
>> requests so it's not like I'm making any of this up wearing my tin hat
>> (now where did I leave that faraday cage anyway?). ;->
>
> I believe you are conflating NNTP and Usenet. They are similar but not
> the same thing.
same. I had considered nntp the server protocol to the Usenet newsgroups.
kuzvanechka2
Mar 3, 2023, 5:21:11āÆPM3/3/23
to
Are you talking about their NNTP server or web interface?
I'm posting via web interface just fine. Not sure about NNTP
server, never tried it.
I suggest asking in one of their groups, for example,
rocksolid.shared.helpdesk:
<https://www.novabbs.com/rocksolid/thread.php?group=rocksolid.shared.helpdesk>
I doubt their admin is reading AFN regularly.
I'm posting via web interface just fine. Not sure about NNTP
server, never tried it.
I suggest asking in one of their groups, for example,
rocksolid.shared.helpdesk:
<https://www.novabbs.com/rocksolid/thread.php?group=rocksolid.shared.helpdesk>
I doubt their admin is reading AFN regularly.
Grant Taylor
Mar 4, 2023, 7:11:50āÆPM3/4/23
to
On 3/3/23 1:53 PM, Bugsy wrote:
> It's OK. I probably should have known it all but I think I figured
> it out because people on this newsgroup "said" you can post. All I'm
> requesting is for the web page to say that so people would know they
> can post after authentication and not just read after authentication
> (like some servers).
I agree that documentation is better than no documentation. I'd suggest
> It's OK. I probably should have known it all but I think I figured
> it out because people on this newsgroup "said" you can post. All I'm
> requesting is for the web page to say that so people would know they
> can post after authentication and not just read after authentication
> (like some servers).
sending a brief message the the administrator asking them to clarify the
documentation.
> I didn't mean it as an insult. I just meant it as an acknowledgement
> on my part that I probably should have known the answers to what I
> asked just by guessing - but my point was that I can easily guess
> wrong because I know of some sites which don't allow posting even
> after authentication (I'm not sure, for example, what the netfront
> status is).
> Well, not really.
Yes, really. Everyone has to start from noting and learn things. You
certainly didn't know how to type before you could walk or recite the
alphabet.
Everyone has to learn $TOPIC from a zero starting point. How quickly
they learn, what they learn from, who teaches them, those are all
different for each person. But they all start from nothing.
> The web page, I think, is great but it should add four things which
> can be links so they don't clutter up the web page.
> <1> It should state you can "post" after you authenticate (not just read)
> <2> It should list the newsgroups that you can post to (using a link!)
> <3> Somewhere it should mention binary newsgroups (not that I care myself)
for various different reasons.
If the news server carries binary groups or not is up to them. How they
publish that is up to them.
The existence of binary newsgroups can be somewhat addressed by #2.
> <4> It "could" point to a setup example for the i2P
> It would assume the i2p software is already installed.
> It can assume bogus authorization credentials.
> Then it can show the user what buttons to press in the i2p setup.
news servers should be expected to provide. If anything, I'd expect
news servers to provide something that said "point your i2p client
$HERE" type thing.
> I agree since I've done torrents for example, which took me a long
> time to figure out how the process works but which I could explain
> in ten lines now.
>
> Also it took me a long time in the beginning to get tor working with
> the socks5 stuff and privoxy garbage where it's so complicated I just
> gave up.
technology that you add. It's almost as if the complexity is raised to
the power of the number of technologies that you are combining.
> Lot's of things are complicated but almost all of them would be a lot
> easier if someone who is providing the service provides a step by step.
nothing else, you probably need to provide them for the X most common
client(s). And you need to keep them up to date.
Documentation is notorious for falling out of date.
Services that barely have time / money / resources to do the primary
function of the service usually don't have time / money / resources to
continue maintaining documentation.
It's a sad state, but it's a very common state in the industry.
> I'm sure I even had this learning problem when I first set up tin
> maybe twenty years or whatever ago, or when I first set up stunnel.
learn everything.
> An i2p example would go a looooooooooooooooooooooooong way to help
> noobs.
I provide Tor service for my remailer, but I'm not going to take time to
write documentation for how to install / configure / use Tor. -- I'm
not even qualified to do so. I simply have it functioning as a
communications method with my remailer.
I've looked at i2p and have decided not to do it (yet) because of
personal bias against Java. -- Seeing as how this is effectively a
donation of my time / server resources / effort, people get something
they can connect to using other documentation.
> Well, take aioe then. It doesn't do alt.home.repair newsgroups.
> Is that intuitive? Not to me it's not. Maybe to you but not to me.
was working -- I would open my client, go to newsgroup management,
refresh, and search to see if it was there. I'd actually do that before
going to AIOE's site to find a page listing the newsgroups they carry
because I both know how to quickly do that in my news reader and because
documentation tends to get out of date so the query is probably more
authoritative anyway.
> The paga server doesn't do alt.checkmate (not that I care) but if I
> cared, I'd want to know that, wouldn't I?
> Those are minor but when you use the news.mozilla.org:119 server (which
> I think they took down), it only carried like a half dozen newsgroups.
newsgroups. The Mozilla news server was not a general Usenet news server.
> Same with news.novabbs.org which only serves an IP address from
> Australia. If they don't tell you that, how are you supposed to
> know that?
somewhere and to refuse to create an account if you are outside of the
country.
> My only reason for saying this is three things
> <1> They know it (the server admins)
> <2> The rocksolid site doesn't say it
> <3> And yet a noob like I am needs to know it
multiple other providers beyond just NovaBBS.
> I don't disagree that you guessed that, and you guessed right, but
> take the counter case of news.tambov.ru:119 which offers usenet news
> services without needing login credentials.
require accounts to be able to read or post. These servers are often
sources of spam and are generally frowned upon by many in the news
community because of the spam problems that tend to plague them.
> It certainly works (as I've used it myself in the past) but can you
> post to this newsgroup? You don't know. You can only guess. And that's
> the issue.
> My counterclaim is that some things that "look" like nntp services
> are more complicated, like the news.gmane.org:119 situation where
> (as I recall) it did NOT require a login/password so the credentials
> are blank/blank but you had to be pre-approved by sending them an
> email request first.
No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
NNTP is simply a protocol to exchange news articles with a server.
Much like HTTP is a protocol to talk to a web server being completely
independent of the type of web pages that the server hosts.
> That's not intuitive that it works that way, right? Someone has to
> explain it to you as you'd never guess, right?
when I last set up a client to access them. I was able to successfully
connect using the documentation that they provided at the time.
> I think the easiest way to explain how (I remember) gmane to work is
> that ALL groups are moderated by the gmane admin, not only moderated
> newsgroups.
lists. If you wanted to post to one of the lists, you had to do so via
the mailing list.
> I understand that a telnet isn't all that good of an indicator of
> posting but it is an indicator of listing if it allows you to list
> the newsgroup.
> But why should someone have to telnet and list to know that the
> news.tambov.ru:119 or news.mozilla.org:119 authentication-free open
> servers only carry something like a dozen newsgroups or that the paga
> server only allows four posts every two days (or something like that,
> I don't recall).
first and foremost is NNTP. They may not speak any other protocol.
Seeing as how you're dipping your toes into the news ecosystem, you will
be doing a LOT of investigation using NNTP or telnet.
The news ecosystem is -- unsurprisingly -- NNTP /centric/. Other
protocols tend to be considered optional and often an afterthought.
> Or that aioe doesn't allow posting to alt.privacy or some other
> oddball restriction when you would "guess" completely different than
> the reality.
You can see if there is a web site, but don't be surprised if there
isn't one. Or if there is documentation, don't be surprised if it's out
of date.
Testing what you want to do via the NNTP protocol is probably the
fastest and most authoritative way to find out if something can be done
or not.
> I don't know that but I'll accept that you know that, but how do
> you know that, and more to the issue at hand is how am I supposed to
> know that?
experience in the news server community. I was able to deduce what I
shared based on said experience and interpretation of the Dizum site
that you linked to.
> It looks like a 'normal' usenet server to me from the little I know
> of it. It just doesn't work the way you would "guess" it to work,
> which is why I brought it up as a counterclaim to the "omnipotence"
> requirement. :-)
There are many things that use NNTP that aren't related to Usenet at all.
> I could try to post but I already know dizum doesn't allow posting
> but I only know that from experience. Which is my issue with the
> rocksolid page.
don't, oh well. You might ask for help in various places or try other
things.
> It's not a major issue. But why should a noob have to guess? They
> could add the four things I ask in a few minutes since they know it.
You often need to figure things out for yourself.
Sometimes this is an oversight. Other times it's done on purpose to
filter out people not in the know.
> Then nobody after me needs to guess.
> See! I told you I was stupid.
already assumed some things based on what you've experienced. You are
now learning more and refining your mental model of things.
> I didn't even realize that. It's OK. Thanks. It's OK to be stupid
> as long as I can fix it with your help. :-)
> I didn't know that but the only thing I am asking for is setup
> instructions for a noob assuming bogus credentials and assuming i2p
> is already installed.
-- learn how to swim in the NNTP / Usenet world as well as the i2p world
before you try to combine the two.
> Since they know that and since no noob knows that, it would be helpful
> for them to link to a web page that says what the i2p setup to their
> server is.
are already familiar with i2p and only need the values to connect to.
They are focused on running their server. Tutorials on how to use a
mostly unrelated protocol are largely out of scope for them.
> See above. I equate them. But I never ran an nntp server. So I'm
> a noob.
thing -- is considerably different and more difficult than /using/ an
NNTP server.
> Well, that's not exactly true but I guess it's mostly true in that it
> depends on how a noob thinks about it. You're thinking like an expert.
No, it is very much true. At least the last few years Mozilla's NNTP
> Well, that's not exactly true but I guess it's mostly true in that it
> depends on how a noob thinks about it. You're thinking like an expert.
server was stand alone. They did not peer with anyone.
Some of their newsgroups did get pulled and feed into Usenet without
their blessing. I think that feed was one way too.
> As a noob, I know you could post to the mozilla.support.firefox
> newsgroup using almost any NNTP server, so for example you could post
> using nntp.aioe.org:119 or news.solani.org:119 or news.mixmin.net:119
> too.
from Mozilla and feed into Usenet.
My understanding is that the official stance from Mozilla is that their
news server was private and stand alone. Thus any appearance on Usenet
at large was unapproved and unsupported.
> But it wasn't "exactly" the same result as if you had posted using
> the news.mozilla.org:119 server because it depended on peering and
> the like.
> My point is that I can give counterclaim after counterclaim after
> counterclaim where what looks like a duck and quacks like a duck
> isn't actually a duck.
frantically under the water while looking calm above.
Mozilla and Gmane were NNTP servers. They were not Usenet servers.
Usenet is a network of news servers exchanging articles over a fairly
common newsgroup list. Usenet servers /usually/ use NNTP to exchange
articles. However there are other protocols that they can use to
exchange articles. So Usenet doesn't /imply/ NNTP, it only /strongly/
/suggests/ it.
> It seems to be the same with the rocksolid server but I don't know
> that for a fact which is why I would ask them to just say the four
> missing things.
I trust that there are ways to contact administrators of sites that
carry the rocksolid newsgroup hierarchy to ask for help.
> But to me, it looked like a duck and quacked like a duck even as it
> wasn't a duck. You know it wasn't a duck.
> But how would a noob like me know if they don't tell you on their
> information web page?
How do you know what your local grocery store carries if you don't go in
and look around?
> I don't understand that above as I'm well aware that you "can" post
> to the Usenet newsgroups using your MUA by sending that email to
> mixmin servers.
> But this is a great counterclaim example for the point that I don't
> even know how to do that because I don't have an EXAMPLE in front of
> me to follow.
entirely different thing.
Others in the a.p.a-s newsgroup can provide better help than I can.
> So I would post via news.mixmin.net:119 in my newsgreader setup, but if
> I had a written example of how to post using my MUA, I might try that.
> But I'm a noob. So I don't know how to do that. I can't even guess how.
> Well, the good news is that the list command went on forever for the
> rocksolid telnet, so I can assume that it carries "most" newsgroups.
The active file -- a file which lists newsgroups for the INN news server
software -- on my server lists nearly 46k newsgroups.
So I have no idea how to quantify your "forever" to compare it to 46k.
Also, not all servers carry the same newsgroups. Hence the phrasing
"carries the rocksolid.* hierarchy".
> But I did not know that until I ran the list command.
it on your behalf gave you the most authoritative list. It probably
also did so faster than any other method.
Doing this also works for news servers that don't support anything other
than the NNTP protocol.
N.B. not all news servers have web (HTTP(S)) nor email (SMTP) services.
Sometimes all you get is NNTP.
> And, a counterclaim would be that if you ran the list command on the
> aioe server, you'd see thousands (or whatever) but alt.home.repair
> wouldn't be in that list (or that alt.checkmate wouldn't be in the
> paga listing?).
>
> Now how would you know that as a noob?
That's why you go into your local grocery store to see what they carry.
That's why you walk up to a vending machine to see what soft drinks it
vends and if it has any in stock.
You try it and see.
> True. So true. But what they "can" do that doesn't get out of date is
> say things like "we don't carry binary newsgroups" or "we carry the
> main 8 hierarchies" or "we don't carry alt newsgroups" or something
> simple like that which covers their principles (which probably don't
> change often).
Other news server operators don't have a website.
> Yeah. I figured that out after I had posted that by the "list" command.
> That's all they'd have to say, which is what they cover, in principle.
> Their principles shouldn't change all that often imho.
>
> It's kind of like dizum only allows read so they can tell you that.
>
> Also paga limits you to about four or five messages a day. So they
> can tell you that.
>
> You can guess. But why should a noob have to guess when looking at
> the rocksolid web page for the first time to see if it's something
> they want?
Sometimes you have to do a little bit of effort to find out for yourself.
> Yeah. At first I thought rocksolid was like the mozilla setup where
> it only allowed posting to their newsgroups - but the list proved
> otherwise.
>
> But why guess? They can say so in principle (which is a sentence).
> Well, I didn't understand that line (remember, I'm a noob) so now
> I do. Thanks.
> It just means they carry a lot of hierarchies, and, they carry
> those too.
Each and every (group of) server(s) tend to carry different newsgroups.
There is a LOT of overlap on many servers. But there is still some
differences.
At some point in the future you may find that your news server of choice
doesn't carry a newsgroup that you want. At that point in time, email
your news administrator and ask them to start carrying the group. Good
news server administrators will try to find a source for the group and
start carrying it or provide a reason why they can't / won't do so.
> The funny thing (confusing thing actually) was that the mozilla
> hierarchies were peered so they "looked" like normal newsgroups even
> though they weren't.
naively say that someone scraped / leaked the Mozilla newsgroups into
the larger Usenet when they should not have done so. Their action
caused problems and confusion for many others.
> It wasn't obvious to a noob who accessed those peered mozilla
> hierarchies using aioe or mixmin or whatever (instead of using the
> mozilla server).
carried the Mozilla newsgroups so as to avoid perpetuating a falsehood.
N.B. there is some complicated history about the really old Netscape
newsgroups, which I think were officially peered, vs the newer Mozilla
newsgroups which weren't officially peered. At least that's my
understanding.
> I only brought the issue up as a counterclaim that guessing isn't
> the right way to go about introducing a noob to a new server such as
> rocksolid seems to be.
than waiting to be told if I can or not.
> Speaking of that, how long has rocksolid been running anyway?
> Are they brand new like paganini? Or old but new again like blueworld?
> Or even old but nobody knew about like maddog.stanford.edu?
> I don't think I was hostile. I was matter of fact stating that I know
> I'm stupid but that's the whole reason I asked for the documentation.
> A noob can't guess right all the time. Even an expert can't guess
> right all the time.
and figuring it out before someone replies the following morning telling
you want you need to do. Trying things allows you to find out before
receiving the answer the next day.
> I'm a noob with the rocksolid stuff. But I don't want others to have
> to guess like I did.
>
> They know the answers to the four questions. They could just write
> them.
>
> I'm not complaining. I'd write them myself if I knew the answers.
> But I don't.
>
> Maybe. Maybe not. If you subcribe to eternal september, you get a
> nice email back that tells you how to set it up.
>
> Why can't rocksolid do the same when it comes to i2p setup?
Not all service providers provide the same level of documentation.
> nice email back that tells you how to set it up.
>
> Why can't rocksolid do the same when it comes to i2p setup?
> They know it. A noob doesn't know it.
I can't tell you how to set up a Tor client to connect to my remailer --
or any other onion service for that matter.
I provide connectivity via Tor, but I don't use Tor myself. I can't
support what I don't use.
> Not going to disagree with you on that one. Maybe they don't want
> noobs using i2p anyway. It could be like giving a high school kid
> a brand new ferrari. Not a good idea sometimes to play with the big
> boys without learning first on a honda.
be that they don't know what needs to be done, like me an Tor. Or it
may be that they do want people to learn how to walk (Honda) before they
try to run (Ferrari).
> If I ever figure it out, I'll send a writeup to them.
> I'm sure aioe not allowing posting to the alt.home.repair newsgroup
> but allowing reading to it is a result of that so I won't disagree.
>
> Same with paganini limiting the number of posts to about four or five.
>
> All I'm asking though is for that information to be provided to
> noobs for rocksolid because I have to assess whether or not it's
> worth the trouble.
news administrators have been actively fighting it trying to get it
stopped or at least slowed down. There is a very real chance that
they've not finished, much less updated the documentation to reflect the
recent changes that they've been trying.
Much like a librarian is a good resource for finding a book in your
local library, your news administrator is a good resource to ask for
help for your chosen news server.
Many news servers tend to have a local -- as in not feed to Usenet in
general -- newsgroup that is for help using the news service. Chances
are quite good that someone in that (those) newsgroup(s) will know the
answer to your question(s).
> Think about it this way. I know, for example, that battery jumpers
> they sell have the SAME problems as the batteries you're jumping, in
> that I bought one of them five years ago and now the battery is dead
> so it's useless as a portable battery jumper (it still charges though).
>
> Marketing isn't ever going to tell me the truth, so a review should
> have told me that they're useless (over time) since they have the
> same flaws as the battery you're jumping has.
have batteries in them and batteries have a 3-5 year lifespan. As such
it seems natural to me that they would eventually fail.
I think it's unfair to complain about something that's only guaranteed
to work for three years after five years.
> If I knew that before I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it.
> Same with my 110VAC welder and 2-inch wood chipper. Same with the
> electric lawn mower. Or the lightwight so-called mulcher that they
> sold me at Sears.
>
> I had to go to the trouble of using those things to find out that they
> really don't work (in terms of doing a job that you need to have done).
I know that Consumer Reports used to be a good source of information for
some things so that you could learn from other people's hassle. But
this process is a natural, all be it bad, part of a consumer society and
people trying to turn a buck.
> Why do I have to go through all the trouble to figure out how rocksolid
> works only to find out, perhaps, in the end, that it doesn't actually
> work?
You can simply not use it and never know.
Or you can try it and find out.
You might be able to ask others.
This is also why many for pay Usenet providers offer a trial period.
> All they have to do is say that. It's only one additional word.
> And it shouldn't change over time because it's one of their principles.
>
> They actually have that but what they don't tell you is anything useful
> about i2p setup for a noob - but we covered that to death already.
>
> Also what they don't cover at all is what's the difference between
> their seven different servers? Nothing? Something? Who knows. I can
> only guess.
You will learn over time that Usenet providers tend to have subtle
> about i2p setup for a noob - but we covered that to death already.
>
> Also what they don't cover at all is what's the difference between
> their seven different servers? Nothing? Something? Who knows. I can
> only guess.
differences despite carrying similar newsgroups.
I can only assume that is the same with the different servers that carry
the rocksolid hierarchy.
> As a noob, I immediately ask myself, what's the difference? I don't
> know.
> Do you? How can you tell?
Maybe pick another one and try it too.
Compare / contrast the two.
> I did say I was a noob so I agree with you I considered them one and
> the same. I had considered nntp the server protocol to the Usenet
> newsgroups.
not the only method. Nor does NNTP imply Usenet.
Bugsy
Mar 4, 2023, 11:11:12āÆPM3/4/23
to
Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>> Same with news.novabbs.org which only serves an IP address from
>> Australia. If they don't tell you that, how are you supposed to
>> know that?
>
> I would expect a news server that is country specific to say that
> somewhere and to refuse to create an account if you are outside of the
> country.
I snipped what I thoroughly agreed with and which I had nothing more to
>> Same with news.novabbs.org which only serves an IP address from
>> Australia. If they don't tell you that, how are you supposed to
>> know that?
>
> I would expect a news server that is country specific to say that
> somewhere and to refuse to create an account if you are outside of the
> country.
add. On this one news.novabbs.org:119 setup, there are no credentials
required that I know of.
You just have to know that if your IP address geolocates outside of
Australia, they won't pass on your posts (as far as I'm aware).
My only point in bringing that up is that's why documentation helps.
> There are multiple -- what I'll call -- open news servers that don't
> require accounts to be able to read or post. These servers are often
> sources of spam and are generally frowned upon by many in the news
> community because of the spam problems that tend to plague them.
servers where the reality isn't as great as the lists tend to imply.
free.xsusenet.com:119
gail.ripco.com:119
hufu.ki.iif.hu:119
killfile.org:119
maddog.stanford.edu:119
news.ausics.net:119
news.cn99.com:119
news.freedyn.de:119
news.grc.com:119
news.samoylyk.net:119
news.skz.or.jp:119
news.uni-stuttgart.de:119
news.wieslauf.de:119
news2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de:119
news2.neva.ru:119
post.usenet.com:119
pubnews.gradwell.net:119
remote5bge0.ripco.com:119
test.news.mediaways:119
textnews.news.cambrium.nl:119
tor-nn1-ca.netcom.ca:119
tulanet.com:119
www.an.cc.mn.us:119
and now
news.novabbs.org:119
>> It certainly works (as I've used it myself in the past) but can you
>> post to this newsgroup? You don't know. You can only guess. And that's
>> the issue.
>
> You don't have to guess. You can test to find out.
your phone. You can install the app and test it out, and then hate it.
Or, most of the time you can just READ what it does, and you know it's not
for you from the documentation. It's more efficient that way.
>> That's not intuitive that it works that way, right? Someone has to
>> explain it to you as you'd never guess, right?
>
> I vaguely remember reading some documentation on Gmane's site years ago
> when I last set up a client to access them. I was able to successfully
> connect using the documentation that they provided at the time.
So does this nova rocksolid group seem to do things different.
It helps when that's documented, that's all.
>> I think the easiest way to explain how (I remember) gmane to work is
>> that ALL groups are moderated by the gmane admin, not only moderated
>> newsgroups.
>
> I always viewed Gmane as a read-only archive of many different mailing
> lists. If you wanted to post to one of the lists, you had to do so via
> the mailing list.
via my newsreader settings. I've never sent anything through the email.
>> Or that aioe doesn't allow posting to alt.privacy or some other
>> oddball restriction when you would "guess" completely different than
>> the reality.
>
> In the news / NNTP world, try it and see if it works.
when you get a bad group when you respond to someone elses' post on aioe.
Paganini, for example, won't tell you the badword and there is never a bad
word, per se, it's always a mistake but you can't do anything about it. You
have to carefully send the same message a dozen or more times (depending on
the length of course) to figure out which paragraph has the badword.
In every case, there is no bad word but it thinks there was one.
It's similar with aioe's groups where luckily you're only posting to a
handful of groups at a time at most, so when you respond to a post that has
multiple groups and when aioe blocks it, you can drop the groups out out
one by one.
It's the price you pay for a free news server.
>> I could try to post but I already know dizum doesn't allow posting
>> but I only know that from experience. Which is my issue with the
>> rocksolid page.
>
> Hence why I say try things via NNTP. If they work, great. If they
> don't, oh well. You might ask for help in various places or try other
> things.
telnet news.neodome.net 119
Trying 95.216.243.224...
Connected to neodome.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 news.neodome.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (posting ok)
help
200 news.neodome.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (posting ok)
100 Legal commands
ARTICLE [message-ID|number]
AUTHINFO USER name|PASS password|GENERIC program [argument ...]
BODY [message-ID|number]
CAPABILITIES [keyword]
COMPRESS DEFLATE
DATE
GROUP newsgroup
HDR header [message-ID|range]
HEAD [message-ID|number]
HELP
IHAVE message-ID
LAST
LIST [ACTIVE [wildmat]|ACTIVE.TIMES [wildmat]|COUNTS
[wildmat]|DISTRIB.PATS|DISTRIBUTIONS|HEADERS
[MSGID|RANGE]|MODERATORS|MOTD|NEWSGROUPS
[wildmat]|OVERVIEW.FMT|SUBSCRIPTIONS [wildmat]]
LISTGROUP [newsgroup [range]]
MODE READER
NEWGROUPS [yy]yymmdd hhmmss [GMT]
NEWNEWS wildmat [yy]yymmdd hhmmss [GMT]
NEXT
OVER [range]
POST
QUIT
STARTTLS
STAT [message-ID|number]
XGTITLE [wildmat]
XHDR header [message-ID|range]
XOVER [range]
XPAT header message-ID|range pattern [pattern ...]
Report problems to <use...@neodome.net>.
.
group alt.free.newsservers
211 6388 1364 8211 alt.free.newsservers
group alt.free.newsservers
211 6388 1364 8211 alt.free.newsservers
next
body
post
340 Ok, recommended message-ID <kha21v$6wbn$1...@neodome.net>
from: f...@bar.com
subject: This is a test.
message-id: <kha21v$6wbn$1...@neodome.net>
newsgroups: alt.free.newsservers
This is a test.
.
quit
> Mozilla and Gmane were NNTP servers. They were not Usenet servers.
>
> Usenet is a network of news servers exchanging articles over a fairly
> common newsgroup list. Usenet servers /usually/ use NNTP to exchange
> articles. However there are other protocols that they can use to
> exchange articles. So Usenet doesn't /imply/ NNTP, it only /strongly/
> /suggests/ it.
>> Are they brand new like paganini? Or old but new again like blueworld?
>> Or even old but nobody knew about like maddog.stanford.edu?
>
> I would not consider paganini to be new, much less brand new.
It's not like blueworld where Jesse was here a lot & then gone & then back.
Had you heard of paganini bofh much earlier than only a few months ago?
> Be aware that there have been spates of spam in the recent months and
> news administrators have been actively fighting it trying to get it
> stopped or at least slowed down. There is a very real chance that
> they've not finished, much less updated the documentation to reflect the
> recent changes that they've been trying.
and I mean that. They ruin everything for everyone and they enjoy doing
that.
> Having been around cars, machines, and batteries, I'll say this: they
> have batteries in them and batteries have a 3-5 year lifespan. As such
> it seems natural to me that they would eventually fail.
>
> I think it's unfair to complain about something that's only guaranteed
> to work for three years after five years.
chastise you but to just make my point known that to guess is always wrong.
The guarantee is nothing but lies, in terms of what it implies. For
example, what good is a bandaid from J&J guarranteed to be sterile?
It's complete bullshit. right? What are they going to do if it's not
sterile? Give you your finger back?
Marketing preys on people assuming things that aren't spoken. You assume
it's sterile if they "guarantee" that it's sterile. You assume that the
charger will start your car when you need to if you watch an advertisement
on mount kimanjaro where the car starts right up with the thing.
Almost every marketing ad is bullshit leading people to guess in the
direction that the marketing people want you to guess in.
Hence, it's perfectly fair to point out that the battery charger jumper
thingey will not work when you need it most, but that's only one example of
marketing leading you to believe something does what it doesn't do.
I don't like having to guess because when I guess, I always guess wrong.
If you have to guess, you'll more than likely be wrong, and the more you
know, the more you'll be wrong because you have more corner cases to
process.
Sigh. It's how marketing works. They only tell you what they WANT you to
know and then they lead you to GUESS at the rest. I hate that.
> I know that Consumer Reports used to be a good source of information for
> some things so that you could learn from other people's hassle. But
> this process is a natural, all be it bad, part of a consumer society and
> people trying to turn a buck.
of soda water but nobody ever gets that even though that's nominal.
Marketing for sodastream sells you 1 liter bottles which only hold 800 ml
of soda water. They want you to guess it's a liter becasue that's how it's
sold.
Marketing is always leading you to guess in the wrong direction but always
in their favor, and I, for one, don't like to guess because I can guess in
more directions than only the direction marketing wants to lead me.
If you know cars, then you can guess that non-asbestos organic won't stop
as well as semi metallic which won't stop as well as ceramic but you'd be
guessing wrong since the stopping power doesn't have any direct
relationship to how many specs of dust they put in the pads for marketing
purposes.
Likewise, if you buy SAE 10W30 API SN (or whatever) motor oil for one
dollar a quart versus the same viscosity for ten dollars a quart, you'd
guess that the API is better for the ten dollar but it's almost never that
way.
When you have to guess, you're a marketing person's dream customer.
Anyway, I mostly agree with your points so we're in almost violent
agreement. Thanks.
I've asked for an account but I haven't checked my mail yet.
The i2p stuff will have to happen later, over time.
Bugsy
Mar 4, 2023, 11:14:34āÆPM3/4/23
to
Bugsy <bu...@zimage.comBUGSY> wrote:
> I snipped what I thoroughly agreed with and which I had nothing more to
> add. On this one news.novabbs.org:119 setup, there are no credentials
> required that I know of.
>
> You just have to know that if your IP address geolocates outside of
> Australia, they won't pass on your posts (as far as I'm aware).
Typo. news.ausics.net:119 allows posting by Australia IP addresses only.
> I snipped what I thoroughly agreed with and which I had nothing more to
> add. On this one news.novabbs.org:119 setup, there are no credentials
> required that I know of.
>
> You just have to know that if your IP address geolocates outside of
> Australia, they won't pass on your posts (as far as I'm aware).
You just have to know this as they don't require login credentials.
Just IP geolocation. (AFAIK)
If something isn't documented, and if you happen to know about all these
corner cases, then your guess is wildly inaccurate since there are so many
of them (like standards).
Civitas
Mar 4, 2023, 11:36:45āÆPM3/4/23
to
On 3/4/23 22:11, Bugsy wrote:
> I feel sorry for the news server admins because of the horrible spammers,
> and I mean that. They ruin everything for everyone and they enjoy doing
> that.
require authentication for all posting AND reading. otherwise trolls
> I feel sorry for the news server admins because of the horrible spammers,
> and I mean that. They ruin everything for everyone and they enjoy doing
> that.
will do bandwidth attacks
have clear TOS that doxing, harassment, dogpiling, racial and homophobic
slurs aimed at any user are prohibited
have designated groups for authenticated bot posts, (alt.news.bot) and
prohibit use of bots in all groups not marked with .bot in the groupname
put all new users in moderation for a short time before marking them
unmoderated
immediately lock out users that violate TOS
refuse to peer with all servers that don't have and enforce same
policies ... open servers can have their own open server network that
does not cross over to the polite and authenticated network
then all the trolls will just be abusing each other on their own echo
chamber open network
the open network would be useful only for leaks, so as not to risk
identifying the authors
usenet becomes a civil place
profit!
Jesse Rehmer
Mar 5, 2023, 1:19:57āÆAM3/5/23
to
On Mar 4, 2023 at 10:39:39 PM CST, "Civitas" <ci...@ized.example> wrote:
<snip>
> refuse to peer with all servers that don't have and enforce same
> policies ... open servers can have their own open server network that
> does not cross over to the polite and authenticated network
>
> then all the trolls will just be abusing each other on their own echo
> chamber open network
>
> the open network would be useful only for leaks, so as not to risk
> identifying the authors
>
> usenet becomes a civil place
>
> profit!
I agree with much of your original post, until these points. That doesn't
sound like Usenet, but rather a closed network that only select individuals
get to participate in.
For better or worse, that is not what Usenet is supposed to be about.
<snip>
> refuse to peer with all servers that don't have and enforce same
> policies ... open servers can have their own open server network that
> does not cross over to the polite and authenticated network
>
> then all the trolls will just be abusing each other on their own echo
> chamber open network
>
> the open network would be useful only for leaks, so as not to risk
> identifying the authors
>
> usenet becomes a civil place
>
> profit!
sound like Usenet, but rather a closed network that only select individuals
get to participate in.
For better or worse, that is not what Usenet is supposed to be about.
Nomen Nescio
Mar 5, 2023, 2:05:03āÆAM3/5/23
to
Jesse Rehmer
Mar 5, 2023, 2:19:27āÆAM3/5/23
to
On Mar 4, 2023 at 10:11:19 PM CST, "Bugsy" <bu...@zimage.comBUGSY> wrote:
>>> Are they brand new like paganini? Or old but new again like blueworld?
>>> Or even old but nobody knew about like maddog.stanford.edu?
>>
>> I would not consider paganini to be new, much less brand new.
>
> I only heard of them within the past year or less.
> It's not like blueworld where Jesse was here a lot & then gone & then back.
> Had you heard of paganini bofh much earlier than only a few months ago?
Paganini was around before I started (the first time lol).
>>> Are they brand new like paganini? Or old but new again like blueworld?
>>> Or even old but nobody knew about like maddog.stanford.edu?
>>
>> I would not consider paganini to be new, much less brand new.
>
> I only heard of them within the past year or less.
> It's not like blueworld where Jesse was here a lot & then gone & then back.
> Had you heard of paganini bofh much earlier than only a few months ago?
Civitas
Mar 5, 2023, 2:40:55āÆAM3/5/23
to
> For better or worse, that is not what Usenet is supposed to be about.
never participate. It leaves two classes present on the network:
nostalgics and virulent trolls. Everyone else is excluded.
What exactly is Usenet supposed to be about?
Adam H. Kerman
Mar 5, 2023, 10:07:42āÆAM3/5/23
to
Civitas <ci...@ized.example> wrote:
>On 3/4/23 22:11, Bugsy wrote:
>>I feel sorry for the news server admins because of the horrible spammers,
>>and I mean that. They ruin everything for everyone and they enjoy doing
>>that.
>require authentication for all posting AND reading. otherwise trolls
>will do bandwidth attacks
How about clear TOS/AUP rules for fuckheads who put on new sockpuppets
>On 3/4/23 22:11, Bugsy wrote:
>>I feel sorry for the news server admins because of the horrible spammers,
>>and I mean that. They ruin everything for everyone and they enjoy doing
>>that.
>require authentication for all posting AND reading. otherwise trolls
>will do bandwidth attacks
with almost every thread?
>have clear TOS that doxing, harassment, dogpiling, racial and homophobic
>slurs aimed at any user are prohibited
into what you post if you were exposed each and every time you morphed.
The rest of it is all subjective. Stop whining and use your kill file.
>have designated groups for authenticated bot posts, (alt.news.bot) and
>prohibit use of bots in all groups not marked with .bot in the groupname
>put all new users in moderation for a short time before marking them
>unmoderated
If you don't care for unmoderated Usenet, then just leave.
>immediately lock out users that violate TOS
>refuse to peer with all servers that don't have and enforce same
>policies ... open servers can have their own open server network that
>does not cross over to the polite and authenticated network
unauthenticated server.
>then all the trolls will just be abusing each other on their own echo
>chamber open network
>the open network would be useful only for leaks, so as not to risk
>identifying the authors
>usenet becomes a civil place
>profit!
š Good Guy š
Mar 5, 2023, 1:51:23āÆPM3/5/23
to
On 05/03/2023 07:43, Civitas wrote:
Ā
What exactly is Usenet supposed to be about?
These days it is mainly for trolling, spamming and starting
arguments in an empty room. People will always disagree about
everything and Usenet newsgroups is the best place to help them take
out their anger without using any physical violence.
Does this help you?
Does this help you?
Arrest
Dictator Putin
We Stand
With Ukraine
Stop Putin
Ukraine Under Attack
--
We do not live to ourselves and we do not die to ourselves; if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord.
So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning
Rome
Mar 5, 2023, 2:46:44āÆPM3/5/23
to
On Mar 5, 2023 at 5:39:39 AM GMT+1, "Civitas" <ci...@ized.example> wrote:
> racial and homophobic
> slurs aimed at any user are prohibited
NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
> racial and homophobic
> slurs aimed at any user are prohibited
FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT
NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT FAGGOT
NIGGER FAGGOT NIGGER FAGGOT
NIGGER FAGGOT NIGGER FAGGOT
KIKE FAGGOT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States
> Effectively, the Supreme Court unanimously reaffirmed that
> there is no 'hate speech' exception to the First Amendment.
Maybe you should go to Facebook or Twitter? Maybe you don't
really need to be on Usenet? Daddy Zuckerberg will wipe your
ass and ban "eebil Nazis", and everything gonna be good.
Germanator vs. Kerman the German - Binaryan Bitzkrieg
Mar 5, 2023, 9:07:53āÆPM3/5/23
to
Kerman the German is staging a "binARYAN BITzkrieg" to pwn all your binaryan. Say NO! to Kerman the German and his binaryan bitzkrieg.
Kerman the German is the incompetent technical officer of the Newszatsgruppen division of the Waffen BS Shitposter Brigade. He and his Waffen Yes Yes men seek readingsraum at the expense of Jewsnetizens.
Hogan's Heroes shall lambaste his garrulous gonkulator. They shall revoke thier license to use Waffen BS Shitposter Newszatsgruppenware.
Your bumbling binaryan bitzkrieg will wash out, Herr Kerman. You are a kraut-eating rooster gobbler.
The Usenet's foremost technical expert on everything, Kerman the German, still has not managed to set up his own NNTP server after all these
years of brash, bumbling, bureaucratic bloviating.
If it is true power you seek then establish your own NNTP server. That is the key to binaryan readingsraum.
--
The Germanator
De-racinating Kerman the German and his Binaryan Bitzkrieg
Allied Nemesis of the Waffen BS Shitposter Brigade
Usenet is a Washington rainbow troll operation by NATO bambi ding dongs
Kerman the German is the incompetent technical officer of the Newszatsgruppen division of the Waffen BS Shitposter Brigade. He and his Waffen Yes Yes men seek readingsraum at the expense of Jewsnetizens.
Hogan's Heroes shall lambaste his garrulous gonkulator. They shall revoke thier license to use Waffen BS Shitposter Newszatsgruppenware.
Your bumbling binaryan bitzkrieg will wash out, Herr Kerman. You are a kraut-eating rooster gobbler.
The Usenet's foremost technical expert on everything, Kerman the German, still has not managed to set up his own NNTP server after all these
years of brash, bumbling, bureaucratic bloviating.
If it is true power you seek then establish your own NNTP server. That is the key to binaryan readingsraum.
--
The Germanator
De-racinating Kerman the German and his Binaryan Bitzkrieg
Allied Nemesis of the Waffen BS Shitposter Brigade
Usenet is a Washington rainbow troll operation by NATO bambi ding dongs
Nadegda
Mar 6, 2023, 8:46:37āÆAM3/6/23
to
Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
<snicker>
--
FNVWe Nadegda
"By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with
you." -- Mike Godwin, Aug 13, 2017, 8:03 PM
Checkmate admits that, for all intents and purposes, he carries a teddy
bear in public: <d6cnes.k...@news.alt.net>
On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 16:37:32 +0000, William Stickers wrote:
> Skeeter wrote:
>>
>> In article <dskML.1398522$iU59....@fx14.iad>,
>> bill.s...@innocent.com says...
>> >
>> > Whatever wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > > I think I'll go back to social media, which at least works.
>> >
>> > Getting an account is easy. I've got four paid block
>> > accounts, two free accounts that I had to register with
>> > to post, and I have access to an open server. Finding
>> > anything worth reading is a different matter. You should
>> > look elsewhere for that.
>>
>> I never got the confirmation email.
Ah, Skeeter, always in search of more servers to sock thru. What a card!
> Skeeter wrote:
>>
>> In article <dskML.1398522$iU59....@fx14.iad>,
>> bill.s...@innocent.com says...
>> >
>> > Whatever wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > > I think I'll go back to social media, which at least works.
>> >
>> > Getting an account is easy. I've got four paid block
>> > accounts, two free accounts that I had to register with
>> > to post, and I have access to an open server. Finding
>> > anything worth reading is a different matter. You should
>> > look elsewhere for that.
>>
>> I never got the confirmation email.
<snicker>
--
FNVWe Nadegda
"By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with
you." -- Mike Godwin, Aug 13, 2017, 8:03 PM
Checkmate admits that, for all intents and purposes, he carries a teddy
bear in public: <d6cnes.k...@news.alt.net>
Retro Guy
Mar 11, 2023, 5:00:53āÆPM3/11/23
to
Bugsy wrote:
> Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>>> Same with news.novabbs.org which only serves an IP address from
>>> Australia. If they don't tell you that, how are you supposed to
>>> know that?
>>
>> I would expect a news server that is country specific to say that
>> somewhere and to refuse to create an account if you are outside of the
>> country.
> I snipped what I thoroughly agreed with and which I had nothing more to
> add. On this one news.novabbs.org:119 setup, there are no credentials
> required that I know of.
> You just have to know that if your IP address geolocates outside of
> Australia, they won't pass on your posts (as far as I'm aware).
> My only point in bringing that up is that's why documentation helps.
I'm the admin of news.novabbs.org. I have no idea about this Australia
> Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>>> Same with news.novabbs.org which only serves an IP address from
>>> Australia. If they don't tell you that, how are you supposed to
>>> know that?
>>
>> I would expect a news server that is country specific to say that
>> somewhere and to refuse to create an account if you are outside of the
>> country.
> I snipped what I thoroughly agreed with and which I had nothing more to
> add. On this one news.novabbs.org:119 setup, there are no credentials
> required that I know of.
> You just have to know that if your IP address geolocates outside of
> Australia, they won't pass on your posts (as far as I'm aware).
> My only point in bringing that up is that's why documentation helps.
restriction, as there is no such restriction. The server is hosted in N.Y,
USA, and has no regional restrictions.
I appreciate your comments previously in this thread, and have made a couple
of minor changes to https://news.novabbs.org/common/nodelist.php that may
help.
To answer your other questions, news.novabbs.com:119 carries most if not all
text newsgroups, which you can check with 'list' command.
Without authenticating you can still read articles. If you authenticate,
you can post.
Retro Guy
--
Retro Guy
Marco Moock
Mar 12, 2023, 1:35:54āÆPM3/12/23
to
Am 11.03.2023 um 21:57:51 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
> To answer your other questions, news.novabbs.com:119 carries most if
> not all text newsgroups, which you can check with 'list' command.
No, not all.
> To answer your other questions, news.novabbs.com:119 carries most if
> not all text newsgroups, which you can check with 'list' command.
Foreign hierarchies like de.* don't seem to be available.
Retro Guy
Mar 12, 2023, 3:50:51āÆPM3/12/23
to
I'll link a sorted copy of the active file here:
https://news.novabbs.org/common/novabbs-active.txt
--
Retro Guy
Marco Moock
Mar 13, 2023, 10:32:15āÆAM3/13/23
to
Am 12.03.2023 um 19:46:18 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
> Most all hierarchies should be available, including foreign, de.* etc.
At least not in the web interface - or did I miss something?
> Most all hierarchies should be available, including foreign, de.* etc.
Retro Guy
Mar 13, 2023, 1:55:42āÆPM3/13/23
to
Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 12.03.2023 um 19:46:18 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
>> Most all hierarchies should be available, including foreign, de.* etc.
> At least not in the web interface - or did I miss something?
The web interface is just a small sample of the groups available on the
> Am 12.03.2023 um 19:46:18 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
>> Most all hierarchies should be available, including foreign, de.* etc.
> At least not in the web interface - or did I miss something?
inn2 server. I tried to select somewhat active groups. The inn2 server
should have most text groups.
--
Retro Guy
š Good Guy š
Mar 13, 2023, 2:19:46āÆPM3/13/23
to
Some of us don't speak nor understand Germans so we have not paid
much attention to foreign hierarchy. All we know is that Uwe Seeler
was a German Footballer who died in July 2022 at the age of 85.
Have you tried this link:
<http://www.open-news-network.org/>
You can register for a free account if you can read German.
Have you tried this link:
<http://www.open-news-network.org/>
You can register for a free account if you can read German.
Arrest
Dictator Putin
We Stand
With Ukraine
Stop Putin
Ukraine Under Attack
Anonymous
Mar 13, 2023, 2:49:54āÆPM3/13/23
to
It appears in the source code to have some sort of NNTP backend. Is this
a full NNTP server?
Retro Guy
Mar 13, 2023, 3:17:13āÆPM3/13/23
to
Anonymous wrote:
> On 3/13/23 12:55, Retro Guy wrote:
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>> Am 12.03.2023 um 19:46:18 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
>>
>>>> Most all hierarchies should be available, including foreign, de.* etc.
>>
>>> At least not in the web interface - or did I miss something?
>>
>> The web interface is just a small sample of the groups available on the
>> inn2 server. I tried to select somewhat active groups. The inn2 server
>> should have most text groups.
>>
> Does the RSLite software requires INN2 to be installed?
No. rslight does not require any other servers to operate as a standalone
> On 3/13/23 12:55, Retro Guy wrote:
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>> Am 12.03.2023 um 19:46:18 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
>>
>>>> Most all hierarchies should be available, including foreign, de.* etc.
>>
>>> At least not in the web interface - or did I miss something?
>>
>> The web interface is just a small sample of the groups available on the
>> inn2 server. I tried to select somewhat active groups. The inn2 server
>> should have most text groups.
>>
> Does the RSLite software requires INN2 to be installed?
server.
> It appears in the source code to have some sort of NNTP backend. Is this
> a full NNTP server?
pretty well. It does not support 'MODE STREAM', so syncing is done as a READER.
You can connect to it just as ano ther NNTP server from READER mode.
I use sylpheed as a client, and have tested quite a few others without problems.
--
Retro Guy
Marco Moock
Mar 13, 2023, 4:47:54āÆPM3/13/23
to
If you like, you could also make active groups from other hierarchies
available via web, this might lead people to read and posts using it.
Jack
Mar 13, 2023, 5:26:37āÆPM3/13/23
to
> On 12/03/2023 17:35, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 11.03.2023 um 21:57:51 Uhr schrieb Retro Guy:
>>
>>> To answer your other questions, news.novabbs.com:119 carries most if
>>> not all text newsgroups, which you can check with 'list' command.
>> No, not all.
>> Foreign hierarchies like de.* don't seem to be available.
>>
> Some of us don't speak nor understand Germans so we have not paid much
> attention to foreign hierarchy. All we know is that Uwe Seeler was a
> German Footballer who died in July 2022 at the age of 85.
>
> Have you tried this link:
>
> <http://www.open-news-network.org/>
>
> You can register for a free account if you can read German.
>
WE DON'T NEED SERVERS REQUIRING REGISTRATION. PERIOD.
Anonymous
Mar 13, 2023, 7:26:28āÆPM3/13/23
to
it crashes. On occasion it randomly crashes and exits when I click to
open a message.
I know the clients are related. I need to find something that does not
crash.
Marco Moock
Mar 14, 2023, 3:24:46āÆAM3/14/23
to
Am 13.03.2023 um 18:26:34 Uhr schrieb Anonymous:
> Is sylpheed stable for you? I tested claws and I like the interface
> but it crashes. On occasion it randomly crashes and exits when I
> click to open a message.
Please report such bugs.
> Is sylpheed stable for you? I tested claws and I like the interface
> but it crashes. On occasion it randomly crashes and exits when I
> click to open a message.
https://www.thewildbeast.co.uk/claws-mail/bugzilla/index.cgi
This is the only way they can be fixed.
Anonymous
Mar 14, 2023, 10:46:11āÆAM3/14/23
to
writes nothing to the log. The maintainer will say:
"not enough information to troubleshoot"
"not able to replicate"
"ticket closed"
I've been down this road many times. I don't waste my time reporting
bugs when the software doesn't have atomic crash reporting output.
Retro Guy
Mar 14, 2023, 1:32:07āÆPM3/14/23
to
checking for messages and can sometimes (seem to) hang if there's a problem
connecting. The pop up window telling me what's wrong does not pop up, just
ends up in the task bar with the main icon.
sylpheed seems to work a bit better, so I stick with it for now.
I still miss the old OS/2 News Reader!
--
Retro Guy
Grant Taylor
Mar 14, 2023, 1:59:45āÆPM3/14/23
to
On 3/14/23 8:46 AM, Anonymous wrote:
> I've been down this road many times. I don't waste my time reporting
> bugs when the software doesn't have atomic crash reporting output.
It's up to you, but I encourage people to still report such issues as it
> I've been down this road many times. I don't waste my time reporting
> bugs when the software doesn't have atomic crash reporting output.
provides a data point. Once enough similar data points are collected,
hopefully someone will think "there's a problem here, we should dig
deeper even though we don't have as much data as we want".
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
NightBulb
Mar 14, 2023, 2:34:37āÆPM3/14/23
to
outlook. I like your positivity. More of it should abound.
On the topic, perhaps Thunderbird is a good option. It is quite stable.
The maintainers have ramped up new development initiatives to modernize
it from the ground up.
--
NightBulb | https://blog.nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.
How to get ahead in life:
Judaism: circumcision; Christianism: lobotomy; Islam: scimitar;
Democracy: guillotine; Evolution: brainwash; Atheism: K-12.
Paul
Mar 14, 2023, 2:35:46āÆPM3/14/23
to
Like how to attach gdb and collect output ?
https://users.claws-mail.narkive.com/rsb4HqOS/bug-2361-new-claws-crashes-after-pgp-check
A package in a distro, may be compiled -O2 or -O3 and not have
symbols in it. It needs to be compiled -g so that it has subroutine names
and line numbers in crashes. (If you make shit software like I do,
then you should always package -g so the environment is ready for the
crashes :-) )
1) Use the command in your package manager, to "pull source".
Ubuntu is a good place to do this, because there is the
release tarball, two patch files, and the automation applies
the patches to the tarball for you. Debian might not have the patches
in theirs.
You are left with a build directory that is ready to go.
It might be as simple as
./configure and then "make".
None of these require "sudo", unless you "make install" and you are NOT doing that.
apt search claws # Get the package name
cd ~/Downloads
apt-get source claws-mail # Use the package name, automation prepares your meal for you
cd claws-mail # Enter your new build directory ~/Downloads/claws-mail
./configure # There are a million ways to make stuff. This is just one way.
make -n # Make, dry run, see what it plans to do.
make # Compile the software.
To compile software, things like
sudo apt install build-essential # GNU tool chain
may provide some of the tools needed. Again, there are lots of
tool flows, and build-essential does not grease every rail for you.
Build-essential may have already been installed, the last time your
kernel got updated.
2) The compiler flags should be changed from -O2 or -O3 ("highly optimized")
to -g (add debug symbols, subroutine names, line numbers). The code is
slower, but the crash dump is richer. This is, after all, why you are building
this package for yourself, to make it debuggable.
3) As long as the version of the software, is not much different
than the /usr/bin/progname you're currently using, you can just
launch the debug version, right from your build tree. You don't have to
"sudo make install" as that will just make a mess.
There are endless issues with debug, and I'm not all that good at it.
And this is just a very basic description of a start at it. You can then
use gdb (GNU debugger) and attach to the executable and collect
some info.
If you open a Terminal, and do
cd builddir/bin
./claws-mail
then the stdout and stderr of the program, dump to terminal. If
the program has anything to say, now it has a place to say it.
Not many modern programs benefit from a "Terminal launch",
but we can always hope for a cookie for ourselves for trying :-)
When a program is launched from your Desktop menu, the stderr and
stdout go into "outer space" and are useless. When you terminal-launch
an executable, there is a small chance it will write some output for you.
You can also terminal-launch gdb, or, you can fork the executable
and attach gdb
cd builddir/bin
./claws-mail & # non-blocking startup
ps aguwwwx | grep claws # determine the process ID or PID value
gdb -p <pidnumber> # attach to a running process
# Now, do the graphical operation that crashes it.
*******
These are the kind of topics a good development team will
write up for you, so that you can help them, and they can help you.
I only wrote the above, so you can use bits if it in Google Searches.
# Oh, my
https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Debugging_Claws
Debug reports have a "high bar" and the developers can be quite
demanding. But don't give up. If you expect to have software,
SOMEBODY has to contribute to the effort.
Paul
Grant Taylor
Mar 14, 2023, 5:10:15āÆPM3/14/23
to
On 3/14/23 12:34 PM, NightBulb wrote:
> You tend to look on the bright side of things and hold out a hopeful
> outlook. I like your positivity. More of it should abound.
It's not always easy.
> You tend to look on the bright side of things and hold out a hopeful
> outlook. I like your positivity. More of it should abound.
I learned a long time ago that if I strive for better, I likely won't
reach what I'm striving for, but I will end up somewhere better than I
am now. So, I strive for better and am grateful for some better.
I encourage others to do similar.
> On the topic, perhaps Thunderbird is a good option. It is quite stable.
> The maintainers have ramped up new development initiatives to modernize
> it from the ground up.
things still display text just fine.
I have concerns and unknowns about contemporary Thunderbird.
Marco Moock
Mar 15, 2023, 7:56:36āÆAM3/15/23
to
Am 14.03.2023 um 09:46:18 Uhr schrieb Anonymous:
> There is no error output to report. It just crashes with no output
> and writes nothing to the log. The maintainer will say:
Does it write to stdout?
> There is no error output to report. It just crashes with no output
> and writes nothing to the log. The maintainer will say:
Maybe use debug symbols and backtrace. The developer will instruct you
how to do this. He also did that when I reported a bug.
anonimal
Mar 15, 2023, 7:52:13āÆPM3/15/23
to
On 14 Mar 2023, Anonymous <anon...@anonymous.invalid> posted some
news:tuq1bh$76h$1...@news.cyber23.de:
Go into the .ini file and add the following:
CaptureDefectiveUserData=Yes
news:tuq1bh$76h$1...@news.cyber23.de:
CaptureDefectiveUserData=Yes
nerd suprema.c
Mar 18, 2023, 2:35:20āÆPM3/18/23
to
--
nerd suprema.c
0 new messages