Message: People at Toshiba - Stop Screwing!!!!!
Noisy Voice
The laptop is useless without more memory.
It needs update in memory. I want to put the wireless card in too.
However, the damned thing is on the scrap heap. Why?
Because when it was assembled the screws were put in hard and deep.
Beyond any reasonable necessity. So hard and deep that they cannot be
removed.
What is the point of putting in case openings and telling purchasers they
can
upgrade when the upgrade points are screwed so tight that you can't
get into the laptop because you can't remove the screws?
This might seem to be an insignificant problem, but it is not. These tight
tiny screws have
destroyed the usability of a perfectly good laptop.
Not that Toshiba is alone guilty of this inability to know when enough is
enough in the screwing department. I have found that many people just
can't stop irretrievably screwing screws into computer equipment.
Are these guys frustrated about something or what?
And to top it all off, Toshiba insulates itself to such a degree that there
is no easy way of providing feedback telling them to stop screwing.
No feedback section about their product. Toshiba doesn't want to know
nothing.
Feedback to Toshiba: STOP SCREWING IN THE SCREWS SO HARD!!!!!!
olfart
"Noisy Voice" <number...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:QZidncWOSKVbJELV...@comcast.com...
looks like you are screwed...... LOL
Seriously....if you have got nothing to lose then you can try this trick.
Using a small wattage...small tipped soldering iron...hold the hot tip to
the screw head for about 30 seconds... and then try to loosen the screw.
Many times Loctite or other compounds are used on the threads so the screws
won't back out in normal use. The heat will soften the compound. Also make
sure that the tool you are using is the correct fit for the screw head
Noisy Voice
I then will try your suggestion to see if that works.
If not, then I am going to tear the *&%# case apart with my bare hands.
I have heard of that being done.
"olfart" <olfa...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:6kaa84F...@mid.individual.net...
Moshe Goldfarb.
> I think I am going to try liquid wrench to see if that works.
> I then will try your suggestion to see if that works.
Bad idea....
You will make a mess.....
> If not, then I am going to tear the *&%# case apart with my bare hands.
> I have heard of that being done.
That usually works :)
Unfortunately your laptop will never work again after that, but it's fun
anyway!
Seriously, Asian screws, not the kind your dirty little mind is thinking
of, are weird in size....
They are also made of pig metal, IOW CHEAP... and will strip the head in an
instant.
Are they Phillips head?
IOW look like a cross not a slot?
The heads will strip at the slightest touch of the wrong size screwdriver
blade, and I suspect you have used the wrong one.
Most people do....
By now, correct me if I am wrong, your screw heads are probably rounded
out?
If so, do you have any QUALITY Torx bits?
By quality I mean SHARP edges...
If so, find one that you can wedge into the phillips head screw with some
decent pressure or gentle tapping.
Then tap on the driver while you apply pressure and try and turn it VERY
SLOWLY.
That should fix it for you.
BTW I have been in this situation before which is how I learned :)
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
Noisy Voice
believe it - I researched it on Google.
It appears to be a Phillips screw head. It is very small with a cross (+)
and is rather flat. There are similar screw heads with sort of a star where
you need a special screwdriver, but I think it is closer to a Phillips more
than anything else.
I haven't dragged out or charged my drill but have all sorts of mini tools
for the computer.
I've read that using the drill makes it worse not better. Maybe I'll have
to buy the right bit.
I haven't stripped the screws yet but am wary of doing so.
The screws have been put in so that they have been screwed in below the
surface. I got one out.
Why wouldn't putting a drop of Liquid Wrench on a screw work?
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sr8izaj58ewk.2...@40tude.net...
Ken
> I am not too familar with screw heads. However, I researched it - can you
> believe it - I researched it on Google.
> It appears to be a Phillips screw head. It is very small with a cross (+)
> and is rather flat. There are similar screw heads with sort of a star where
> you need a special screwdriver, but I think it is closer to a Phillips more
> than anything else.
>
> I haven't dragged out or charged my drill but have all sorts of mini tools
> for the computer.
> I've read that using the drill makes it worse not better. Maybe I'll have
> to buy the right bit.
> I haven't stripped the screws yet but am wary of doing so.
> The screws have been put in so that they have been screwed in below the
> surface. I got one out.
>
> Why wouldn't putting a drop of Liquid Wrench on a screw work?
Be careful with any chemicals as some will destroy printed wiring paths
should it contact them.
Jerry Peters
> I am not too familar with screw heads. However, I researched it - can you
> believe it - I researched it on Google.
> It appears to be a Phillips screw head. It is very small with a cross (+)
> and is rather flat. There are similar screw heads with sort of a star where
> you need a special screwdriver, but I think it is closer to a Phillips more
> than anything else.
>
> I haven't dragged out or charged my drill but have all sorts of mini tools
> for the computer.
> I've read that using the drill makes it worse not better. Maybe I'll have
> to buy the right bit.
> I haven't stripped the screws yet but am wary of doing so.
> The screws have been put in so that they have been screwed in below the
> surface. I got one out.
You should, BTW, be using a manual screwdrive, not a drill or electric
driver. An electric driver will ruin the head _very_ quickly.
You really do need the correct screw driver. It has to fit _perfectly_
in the screw head or you'll strip the head. Then you'll really be
screwed :).
>
> Why wouldn't putting a drop of Liquid Wrench on a screw work?
And maybe dissolve the plastic too.
Jerry
Don Phillipson
> I am not too familar with screw heads. However, I researched it - can you
> believe it - I researched it on Google.
> It appears to be a Phillips screw head. It is very small with a cross (+)
> and is rather flat. There are similar screw heads with sort of a star
where
> you need a special screwdriver, but I think it is closer to a Phillips
more
> than anything else.
>
> I haven't dragged out or charged my drill but have all sorts of mini tools
> for the computer.
> I've read that using the drill makes it worse not better. Maybe I'll have
> to buy the right bit.
> I haven't stripped the screws yet but am wary of doing so.
> The screws have been put in so that they have been screwed in below the
> surface. I got one out.
This suggests:
1. You are not familiar with fastenings, e.g. do not know names
of standard different types (Phillips, Torx, Robertson and so on)
and may not yet have identified the exact tools you need.
2. Carpentry power tools should not be used on laptop fasteners.
They do not allow the precision of control that your hands possess.
It is crazy to work on electronic components without first
being sure your tools are appropriate for this sort of work.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Barry Watzman
Nikon film scanners, and they, too, have a problem with overtightened
screws in several specific places. I could only get a very small % of
them out using quality American tools. At the suggestion of someone
else, I ordered some German imported precision screwdrivers (brand name:
Wiha ... they can be found online, not cheap, but not terribly
expensive either). The difference is tremendous .... it basically
inverted the situation from one were most screws cannot be removed to
one where only a few cannot be removed.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Dave Martindale
>I think I am going to try liquid wrench to see if that works.
>I then will try your suggestion to see if that works.
Very bad idea. Liquid Wrench is for freeing up rusted steel fasteners.
Your laptop's screws are almost certainly not rusted, so it won't do any
good. And the solvents and oils in the Liquid Wrench are likely to make
a mess of the laptop case (and additional innards if you use too much).
Dave
NoNoBadDog
So because you are an idiot that does not know how to use a screwdriver
properly, you think Toshiba is to blame?
You do realize that the majority of those screws are screwed into soft
plastic?
You do realize that if you use a cheap set of what are commonly called
"jewelers" screwdrivers, you cannot properly use them to give the kind of
torque you need to easily remove those screws?
Have you ever heard the expression "right tool for the job"?
I have taken apart many hundreds of laptops, and I have never had a screw
that I could not remove. But then again, unlike you, I am not an idiot.
So your suggestion is to not tighten the screws so that everything is loose,
and so that the improperly tightened screws will work loose and fall out?
Are you even able to feed yourself?
Barry Watzman
tool, I service laptops, and in the case of Toshiba, almost NO screws go
into plastic, Toshiba manages to use machine screws into metal almost
everywhere, and they use "locktite" in a lot of places where they should
not. I have had to drill out the screws holding hard drive into caddies
on more than one occasion. Toshiba is guilty of using excessive torque
combined with locktite that does indeed make at least some screws
non-removable. I have found the same thing in other products, including
some Nikon film scanners that I service, and, indeed, I have found
instances in which it was clear that the Nikon factory service center
had to "dremel out" a screw that they could not remove either.
It happens. [Although odds are better than even that he isn't using the
"right" tool for the job.]
NoNoBadDog wrote:
>
>
> So because you are an idiot that does not know how to use a screwdriver
> properly, you think Toshiba is to blame?
> You do realize that the majority of those screws are screwed into soft
> plastic?
> You do realize that if you use a cheap set of what are commonly called
> "jewelers" screwdrivers, you cannot properly use them to give the kind
> of torque you need to easily remove those screws?
> Have you ever heard the expression "right tool for the job"?
> I have taken apart many hundreds of laptops, and I have never had a
> screw that I could not remove. But then again, unlike you, I am not an
> idiot.
> So your suggestion is to not tighten the screws so that everything is
> loose, and so that the improperly tightened screws will work loose and
> fall out?
> Are you even able to feed yourself?
>
>
Richard Bonner
> > So because you are an idiot that does not know how to use a screwdriver
> > properly, you think Toshiba is to blame?
> > You do realize that the majority of those screws are screwed into soft
> > plastic?
> > You do realize that if you use a cheap set of what are commonly called
> > "jewelers" screwdrivers, you cannot properly use them to give the kind
> > of torque you need to easily remove those screws?
> > Have you ever heard the expression "right tool for the job"?
> > Are you even able to feed yourself?
Barry Watzman (Watzma...@neo.rr.com) wrote:
> Your attack is uncalled for.
*** I agree - even beyond your reasons below. Attacking a poster instead
of helping is just poor netiquette.
> While he may well not be using the "right"
> tool, I service laptops, and in the case of Toshiba, almost NO screws go
> into plastic, Toshiba manages to use machine screws into metal almost
> everywhere, and they use "locktite" in a lot of places where they should
> not. I have had to drill out the screws holding hard drive into caddies
> on more than one occasion. Toshiba is guilty of using excessive torque
> combined with locktite that does indeed make at least some screws
> non-removable. I have found the same thing in other products, including
> some Nikon film scanners that I service, and, indeed, I have found
> instances in which it was clear that the Nikon factory service center
> had to "dremel out" a screw that they could not remove either.
*** Even some screws into plastic will not come out if Locktite has
been used. This is especially so if the screws are recessed into long
tubes.
> It happens. [Although odds are better than even that he isn't using the
> "right" tool for the job.]
*** Even the right tool will not work if the screw heads chew easily.
Soft-metal hardware is too common today, and since most of these screw
heads tend to be Phillips, the problem is even worse. I hate Phillips
screws! They should all be Robertson!
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
cliff wright
recycled bean cans!
They are so common these days that with non recessedscrews I have found
that a suitable pair of side cutters cutting into the head on both sides
is one way to shift them. Personally I hadn't come across Loctite in
laptop screws. But then I haven't worked on any Toshiba's so far.
BTW what are "ROBERTSON" screw heads? Are they perhaps those rather nice
square drive ones that I've used with wood screws?
Regards Cliff Wright.
Richard Bonner
> Richard Bonner wrote:
> > I hate Phillips screws! They should all be Robertson!
> >
> > Richard Bonner
> ...what are "ROBERTSON" screw heads? Are they perhaps those rather nice
> square drive ones that I've used with wood screws?
>
> Cliff Wright.
*** Yes. They were invented by the PL Robertson company in Quebec a
hundred years ago. They are the best because the sockets are deep and have
more of a taper than the screwdriver tip. Thus, the driver wedges itself
into the screw socket to the point where one can hold the driver & screw
in the screw-down position without it falling out!
Unfortunately, with the end of the patent rights, came second-rate
drivers and screws that are frequently not to spec. As a result, screws
often cannot be held by the driver in that position.
They are supposed to come in only five sizes and are supposed to be
colour-coded:
0 Yellow
1 Green
2 Red
3 Black
4 Orange
...However, the crappy companies have not always adhered to that. As
well, some have those awful combination screws that take a slot, Phillips
or Robertson driver - none of them well. GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
Bigguy
As OP mentioned WIHA are excellent precision drivers.
I use these for cameras, lenses and small parts etc.
Many of the japanese / chinese screws are neither Philips or Posidrive;
they are JIS.
They are also softish metal - it is essential to use a driver that
really fits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Others
Do NOT use powered screwdrivers (or use with extreme caution) - they
will strip the heads of stubborn screws.
A small torque in the tightening direction (CW) can help 'crack' loose
tight screws.
Otherwise it's a mini hacksaw and cut a slot in the head (not possible
with the flatter ones). Sometimes a pair of side cutters can be used to
nip the chewed screw head and rotate it.
Guy
Bigguy
> > Barry Watzman wrote:
>
> As OP mentioned WIHA are excellent precision drivers.
>
> http://www.wiha.com/england
>
> I use these for cameras, lenses and small parts etc.
>
> Many of the japanese / chinese screws are neither Philips or Posidrive;
> they are JIS.
See
http://www.centralhobbies.com/Tools/jis.html
http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm
http://www.vesseltools.com/handtools.html
for JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) drivers
G
RickMerrill
ROBERTSON screw heads are several, but basicly LOOK like a Phillips BUT
the slots are full depth. It is said that H. Ford had tests done with
both phillips AND Robertson heads and they choose the phillips because
the assemblyman could not over-tighten the phillips: the screwdriver
would pop out. But with the robertson the screw could easily be
over tightened. It's all a matter of what you want.
http://inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/screwdriver.htm
History of Screws and Screwdrivers
Richard Bonner
> cliff wright wrote:
> > Richard Bonner wrote:
> >> *** Even the right tool will not work if the screw heads chew easily.
> >> Soft-metal hardware is too common today, and since most of these screw
> >> heads tend to be Phillips, the problem is even worse. I hate Phillips
> >> screws! They should all be Robertson!
> >>
> >> Richard Bonner
> > ...what are "ROBERTSON" screw heads? Are they perhaps those rather
> > nice square drive ones that I've used with wood screws?
> >
> > Cliff Wright.
> ROBERTSON screw heads are several, but basicly LOOK like a Phillips BUT
> the slots are full depth. It is said that H. Ford had tests done with
> both phillips AND Robertson heads and they choose the phillips because
> the assemblyman could not over-tighten the phillips: the screwdriver
> would pop out. But with the robertson the screw could easily be
> over tightened.
*** I believe you may be thinking of Torx screws.
Robertson screw and bolt heads have a square, deep, tapered socket. The
drivers have a tapered tip that slopes at a different rate, so the drivers
will jam themselves on to the screw heads. One can hold a driver and screw
with the tip down without the screw dropping off.
http://canadianhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/peter_lymburner_robertsons_screwdriver
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
Don Phillipson
news:gkqmig$hvh$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> ROBERTSON screw heads are several, but basicly LOOK like a Phillips
RM is mistaken. Robertson screw heads are incised with a square
socket for the screwdriver. (Robertson screwdrivers come in four
sizes, none small enough for use in computer components.) Phillips
screw heads fit a cross-shaped screwdriver tip (designed to slip
out if excessive torque is applied. Designed for use in wood,
Robertson screws aim at the opposite, the bit not slipping.)
Richard Bonner
> Robertson screwdrivers come in four
> sizes, none small enough for use in computer components.
> Don Phillipson
*** There is the `zero"' size. It's pretty small. If the Robertson
Company's criterion is followed, it should have a yellow handle. Other
sizes are green, red, black and blue.
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
RickMerrill
Sorry, I was mistaken about the shape!