using water - EL Falcon 4 litre
michael haller
Over the past few months I have needed to put say a cup full or water a day
in my radiator water bottle.
I found that the bottom radiator hose had a small leak and was told the
radiator cap was stuffed.
It is still using the water at the same rate.
My friend ran his sniffer over the water with the radiator cap off and says
that the water has engine gases in it.
He informs me that I will have to get some new Ford head bolts, a new head
gasked and get the head removed and reconditioned.
He also tells me that Ford cast all of their blocks and heads in sand and a
lot of that was not removed correctly when new, so I should have the
radiator replaced with a new one or the tanks removed and the core fully
cleaned out.
Is this all correct information?
Why does the Ford engine have this problem which seems to be on-going. Some
owners say that they have had this fixed up four times over a period of
three years.
I would appreicate any opinions or information.
Thanks, mha...@ozemail.com.au
Noddy
"michael haller" <mha...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:nIoN9.4
> He also tells me that Ford cast all of their blocks and heads in sand and
a
> lot of that was not removed correctly when new, so I should have the
> radiator replaced with a new one or the tanks removed and the core fully
> cleaned out.
>
> Is this all correct information?
Most of what you've stated here sounds quite reasonable, except for the sand
issue.
Ford does indeed cast their heads and blocks in sand moulds, just like
almost every other manufacturer, but I honestly can't say I've ever known
sand fallout to be a problem with them in particular.
> Why does the Ford engine have this problem which seems to be on-going.
Some
> owners say that they have had this fixed up four times over a period of
> three years.
Head gasket problems with Ford inline 6's are a very over rated issue, and
it's an undeserved reputation that's largely held over from the days of the
EA, a car that was notorious for head gasket problems. I've been servicing
cars for 20 years, and ran my own business servicing Falcons such as yours
that were mainly fleet cars, and the number of head gasket complaints
associated with them wasn't out of proportion to anything else.
However, having said that, there are *some* issues with the Falcon alloy
head that will cause problems if the car isn't well maintained.
One of the biggest issues with the head casting is corrosion, and it doesn't
take a great deal of it to cause a problem. Unfortunately, the Falcon head
casting runs water jacket passages that are *very* close to both the head
gasket fire ring, and the driver's side block edge, and any corrosion in
either of these areas will cause a leak that needs to be addressed.
A cylinder head suffering with such a corrosion problem will usually leak in
one of two areas, being either at the fire ring into a cylinder in which
case it will most likely pressurise the cooling system (in your case), or
along the right hand side edge of the head, which will leave coolant stains
down the side of the engine.
The fix is to get the head off and *repair the corrosion damage*, not just
replace the gasket.
One of the biggest reasons why this reputation of head gasket issues is
continually perpetuated is that a great many people repairing original
faults are not doing it correctly. In the case of a corroded cylinder head,
it's simply not enough to just replace the gasket, as that only addresses
the result of the fault, not the cause. The head casting also needs to be
repaired by having the corroded water passage holes welded, and in so many
cases this *isn't* done, leading innocent customers to have a number of head
gasket complaints in a relatively short time.
Suffice to say, anyone with a 4 litre Falcon who has a number of head gasket
issues over a relatively short period is either abusing their car, or not
having it repaired by someone who knows what they're doing.
It sounds like the head needs to come off your engine, so you're in the
perfect position to ensure you never have a problem in this area again, and
doing so requires two very basic steps:
Firstly, have your mechanic *thoroughly* inspect every coolant passage on
the gasket face of the head casting once he's got it off, and *any* water
hole that has less than a couple of millimetres clearance around the gasket
line should be welded to provide a positive seal. Welding alloy heads can be
expensive, but you'll generally find that there are only a small number of
water passages that need to be repaired, and in most cases it doesn't cost
more than a hundred bucks or so to have that done.
Secondly, and probably most importantly if you wish to guarantee you never
see this problem again, you *must* use a quality corrosion inhibitor in your
cooling system, and be prepared to change it on a regular basis. Cooling
systems are often the most over-looked areas as far as regular servicing
goes, and when you consider the repair costs a neglected cooling system can
lead to, it seems ridiculous to not maintain them regularly, especially
considering that the cost of such maintenance is extremely inexpensive.
I generally advised my customers to change their corrosion inhibitor,
thermostat and radiator cap every 12 months, and to use the best quality
corrosion inhibitor in the maximum dosage. Generally, the Motorcraft
corrosion inhibitor than most Falcon engines come standard with is very
good, but there are a number of quality products available that work just as
well. The most important thing is that you use one, and change it once a
year.
The cost of such a cooling system service would be lucky to run more than 50
bucks, and that's insurance you'd find hard to beat for the price.
Regards,
Noddy.
James McNab
In your reply to Michael,you mentioned that a cylinder head suffering with a
corrosion problem being at the fire ring into a cylinder in which case it will
most likely pressurise the cooling system.
How does this pressurise the cooling system?
What effects can this have on the cooling system?
Would be great if you could fill me in.
Thanks,
James
Noddy
"James McNab" <jsm...@students.latrobe.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3E068606...@students.latrobe.edu.au...
> Hi Noddy,
>
> In your reply to Michael,you mentioned that a cylinder head suffering with
a
> corrosion problem being at the fire ring into a cylinder in which case it
will
> most likely pressurise the cooling system.
>
> How does this pressurise the cooling system?
> What effects can this have on the cooling system?
>
> Would be great if you could fill me in.
Hi James.
On just about every kind of head gasket, there is a re-enforced metal ring
around each cylinder that acts as a sealing ring when the head is torqued
down and the gasket compressed, and these rings are known as "fire rings",
amongst other terms.
Some engines, the Falcon 4 litre 6 in particular, have water jacket holes in
the block and head that run very close to these metal rings, and normally
they don't cause any problems. However, when the edges of these water holes
corrode, they cause the hole to become larger, and when it's as close to the
fire ring as it is on the Falcon head, it can "creep" under the ring over
time.
Once this occurs, the sealing pressure is "lifted" off the section of the
fire ring where the head has corroded and the ring usually stops sealing at
this point. Cylinder compression then finds the path of least resistance and
escapes through the leaking section of the gasket, and into the nearby water
passage. This, in turn, allows engine compression to find it's way into the
cooling system, and "pressurises the radiator".
Essentially, you end up with more pressure in the cooling system than it was
designed to cope with, and it ends up finding it's way out by compressing
the spring in the radiator cap, and spewing coolant out everywhere. If your
radiator cap isn't functioning, or some other part of the system has a
failure point lower than that of the cap release, then it will usually give
way first, such as blowing a weak hose, or splitting a radiator tank seam.
The problem is also a two-pronged one in that it mostly works in reverse
when the engine is switched off.
When the engine is running, it generally stops water from leaking into the
affected cylinder, as the compression pressure is far greater than that in
the cooling system. However, once an engine with such a fault is switched
off, compression pressure immediately dies, and the rising pressure in the
cooling system tries to force coolant back through the leaking section of
the gasket and into the cylinder.
This happens quite often, and I've seen more than a few engines damaged
after people have gone out to crank over their car a few hours after
shutting it down, only to find it has a cylinder full of water. The
resulting "thud" of the engine as the starter bends the connecting rod is
generally not a good sign :)
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Noddy.
MattK
news:au67e2$4lsnf$1...@ID-132740.news.dfncis.de...
>
> This happens quite often, and I've seen more than a few engines damaged
> after people have gone out to crank over their car a few hours after
> shutting it down, only to find it has a cylinder full of water. The
> resulting "thud" of the engine as the starter bends the connecting rod is
> generally not a good sign :)
Why does this occur? I know that liquids cannot be compressed, but without
the pressure of combustion to force the piston rings against the cylinder
wall, wouldnt the water get around the edges of the piston as it was on it's
upward stroke? Or are the rings too strong anyway?
Cheers,
Matt
Noddy
"MattK" <ma...@NOSPAMpowerchipgroup.SPAMcom> wrote in message
> Why does this occur? I know that liquids cannot be compressed, but without
> the pressure of combustion to force the piston rings against the cylinder
> wall, wouldnt the water get around the edges of the piston as it was on
it's
> upward stroke? Or are the rings too strong anyway?
The rings generally seal good enough on their own to cause a hydraulic lock
on a cylinder full of liquid, and even if the piston had no rings at all the
water most likely *still* wouldn't be able to escape around the piston quick
enough to avoid the problem. Bear in mind that in such cases, the water
manages to stay in the cylinder when the engine's not running, and with ring
end gaps and groove clearances being as small as they are (relatively
speaking), the water tends to form its own seal.
Ever seen old World War Two footage of American bomber crews winding
propellers over on aircraft by hand as they get them ready for flight?
This is because the radial engines in those types of aircraft have the sump
in the centre of the engine with the cylinders spread around it in a
circular fashion, and oil seeps into the lower cylinders over time (usually
over night). Winding the engine over by hand doesn't spin it fast enough to
cause rod damage from a hydraulic lock, but fast enough to push any residual
oil out the exhaust valve so the engine can be safely started.
Many starter motors have enough torque to bend a connecting rod if the
piston comes to an unexpected halt in a hurry.
Regards,
Noddy.
MattK
Alrighty, that makes sense, cheers for the explanation :) I'll be
extra-extra careful of my car's head gasket now :P
Matt
