CA wines downunder!
st.helier
of Auckland's top restaurants.
Our small club does include among its membership such noted names as
winemakers Joe Babich (Babich Wines), Nick Nobilo (formerly Nobilo Wines,
now Vinoptima), Andrew Hendry (Coopers Creek); wine writer Michael Cooper
etc..
The theme was California comes to O'Connell Street"
Few CA wines make it to NZ - (relative to NZ) high US domestic prices and
unfavourable exchange rate differential makes them very expensive when
compared to local or Australian or European imports.
The format is simple - all wines served blind - a pre-dinner "starter", then
each course is accompanied by 2 or three wines.
And usually, the organisers throw in a ringer - just to keep everyone on
their toes.
After each course, two or three people are asked to comment on the food; the
wine(s); the match and then "guess" the what/where/when of the wine.
The starter was bubbles - crisp, even austere, but fresh and lightly fruity.
Most thought Champagne - well, close!
Roederer Estate Brut from Anderson Valley - here in NZ, this would retail
just slightly less than most NV champagne, and above many minor labels, but
this was a very pleasant start to the evening.
Entree was Crispy Calamari with roasted garlic & saffron aioli and wild
rocket salad.
Two whites were presented:
(1) 2005 Au Bon Climat "Nuits-Blanches au Bouge XXV" from Santa Maria
Valley
(2) 2006 Hyde de Villane Chardonnay - Napa Valley.
Both well made examples - I preferred the latter with the squid dish - quite
a serious wine with a good dollup of acid, mineral hints with ripe nectarine
flavours. The former was fleshy and ripe, spicy (oak?) pear and spice - very
good but IMO the HdV was a better match.
Main course was Wild Goat Osso Bucco, with polenta fritta and cavolo Nero;
three reds were poured (decanted three hours we were told!)
(3) 2007 Jacob Franklin Petite Sirah - Hayne Vineyard, Napa Valley. I
liked this wine - inky black, smoked bacon / mushroom on the nose, hints of
ripe plums, black pepper and dark chocolate - good acid / fruit / tannin,
maybe a little out of balance owing to extreme youth, but this went very
well with the chevon.
(4) 2005 Hyde de Villaine "HdV" Carneros Syrah. I thought this wine was
totally bizarre - I could not get past overpowering nose of burnt rubber!
Medium weight, sappy, tight as hell. Unlike any syrah/shiraz I have had in
my life.
(5) 2005 Seghesio Family Old Vine Zinfandel. I picked the variety
immediately (thanks to gifts from Mark Lipton and Joseph Coulter. I
understand this wine is made from old (nearly 100 years) head-pruned vines
from Alexander and Dry Creek valleys. I could become a real fan of this
style of wine.This wine was a dark purple hue with hints raisin and spice.
Not overtly jammy or chewy, this Zin was a spicy, peppery wine, with a hint
of dark cherries.
The meal was finished with a selection of cheeses - served with another red.
I was busy extolling the virtues of this wine, when I was put on the spot
and asked to comment (followed by Nick Nobilo!)
I was initially torn - between a Pauillac and a quality CA Cabernet
Sauvignon. The wine was very Bordeaux like (and a very young example too I
thought). Medium / full bodied, good acidity, clean style, cassis and
cedar - I opted for an excellent CA wines about 5 years old. (Nobilo went
for a first growth Bordeaux as a tricky inclusion!)
When unveiled it proved to be Ridge Monte Bello 2003 (good guess by his
lordship!) - god! this was a very special wine!
Faced with a two hour drive home, I opted out of coffee and port - trying to
think of a way to get my hands on a case of this wine (impossible I am
afraid!)
Apart from the very weird showing of the HdV syrah, this was an excellent
selection from the West Coast.
--
st.helier
Joseph Coulter
<alpha...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>(5) 2005 Seghesio Family Old Vine Zinfandel. I picked the variety
>immediately (thanks to gifts from Mark Lipton and Joseph Coulter. I
>understand this wine is made from old (nearly 100 years) head-pruned vines
>from Alexander and Dry Creek valleys. I could become a real fan of this
>style of wine.This wine was a dark purple hue with hints raisin and spice.
>Not overtly jammy or chewy, this Zin was a spicy, peppery wine, with a hint
>of dark cherries.
>
I stand ready to be of service in the future, but I fear given:
>
>I was initially torn - between a Pauillac and a quality CA Cabernet
>Sauvignon. The wine was very Bordeaux like (and a very young example too I
>thought). Medium / full bodied, good acidity, clean style, cassis and
>cedar - I opted for an excellent CA wines about 5 years old. (Nobilo went
>for a first growth Bordeaux as a tricky inclusion!)
>
>When unveiled it proved to be Ridge Monte Bello 2003 (good guess by his
>lordship!) - god! this was a very special wine!
>
That I must stock up on a different varietal.
It is always good to hear from you - the weather will improve, I would
send some of our heat if I could,
Cheers
Joseph Coulter
Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations
www.josephcoulter.com
Dee Dovey
"st.helier" <alpha...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h2lpo4$9j0$1...@aioe.org...
Why try to appreciate California wines?
As an ex-California-er of 30 years, California wines are totally
unacceptable to me. I buy an occasional Kirkland California wine, or one
recommended by a wine shop, but I say ad infinitum, they are consistently
terribly disappointing.
I always am puzzled by the quantity of wines drunk or sampled from various
posters from various countries. How can this be?:-))
Dee Dee
Bi!!
> "st.helier" <alphabet...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
What is it about California wines that you find so off-putting?
Joseph Coulter
wrote:
>> I always am puzzled by ?the quantity of wines drunk or sampled from various
>> posters from various countries. ?How can this be?:-))
>>
>> Dee Dee- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>What is it about California wines that you find so off-putting?
Can't speak for Dee, but for a long time the QPR was ridiculous. CA
Rhone blends at $25 that remembled Parallel 45, Oak monster Chards
with no finesse or flabby cheapies. Yes there are good ones, and I
am slowly allowing myself to try some, but for years I just avoided CA
in favor of France Spain and Italy always easier to pick up a good
bottle. Then the Australians started making wines as I like them, NZ
and S. America and it becomes hard to justify to dollars to
experiement.
James Silverton
>>> I always am puzzled by ?the quantity of wines drunk or
>>> sampled from various posters from various countries. ?How
>>> can this be?:-))
>>>
>>> Dee Dee- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> What is it about California wines that you find so
>> off-putting?
> Can't speak for Dee, but for a long time the QPR was
> ridiculous. CA Rhone blends at $25 that remembled Parallel 45,
> Oak monster Chards with no finesse or flabby cheapies. Yes
> there are good ones, and I am slowly allowing myself to try
> some, but for years I just avoided CA in favor of France Spain
> and Italy always easier to pick up a good bottle. Then the
> Australians started making wines as I like them, NZ and S.
> America and it becomes hard to justify to dollars to
> experiement.
Does no-one remember "The Judgement of Paris"? I have to admit that my
wine-tasting at the moment involves mostly OZ and NZ but I tend to make
comparisons with CA rather than French wines. I did find an interesting
Shiraz from South Africa recently: Douglas, I think.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Doug Anderson
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT), "Bi!!" <rvw...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >> I always am puzzled by ?the quantity of wines drunk or sampled from various
> >> posters from various countries. ?How can this be?:-))
> >>
> >> Dee Dee- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> >What is it about California wines that you find so off-putting?
> Can't speak for Dee, but for a long time the QPR was ridiculous. CA
> Rhone blends at $25 that remembled Parallel 45, Oak monster Chards
> with no finesse or flabby cheapies. Yes there are good ones, and I
> am slowly allowing myself to try some, but for years I just avoided CA
> in favor of France Spain and Italy always easier to pick up a good
> bottle.
This matches my experience precisely, down to the Parallele 45
example. There are many wonderful wines from CA, but I do most of my
wine buying in the $10-$25 range and find much better QPR elsewhere.
For under $20, I'm much more happy with a good village level Chablis
than with an "oak monster chard" and happier with a Gigondas than with
anything I've had from Napa at that price (OK, I realize that second
comparison isn't like with like, but still).
Not to mention the plethora of really interesting white grapes
(Riesling, Albarino, Chenin Blanc, Melon de Bourgogne, Gruner...) that
seem to have no serious representation in CA but that can be
sensational.
To end on a positive note, how about favorite CA wines in the $10-$25
range?
I'll start:
Matanzas Creek Sauvignon Blanc. (Though even here, for under $20
I can get wines that are just as exciting from the Loire.)
Doug Anderson
Yeah, so maybe one's viewpoint on this depends on how much money one
wants to spend.
Maybe the Chateau Montelana Napa Chardonnay is just as good or better
than the Domaine Christian Moreau Chablis Grand Cru, but I'm just not
buying that much wine at $50 a bottle. (A pity, no doubt, but that's
the way things are.)
At the prices I am paying (mostly sub $20) I seem to have better luck
outside of the US.
My theory about this by the way, is that land is simply too expensive
in California and Oregon to be able to afford to make good moderately
priced wine. Whereas in some of the rest of the new world
(e.g. Argentina) land is cheaper, and in the old world, although land
is not cheap, the estates that have been in the same family for many
generations don't have to pay high mortgages. Someone who knows more
than me could say whether this theory has any actual basis in fact...
Dee Dovey
"Joseph Coulter" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:rnr655lkpnps1fupj...@4ax.com...
Here's one that I will buy maybe 3 more bottles today at Costco. Yalumba
Barossa Shiraz Viognier 2005.
Normally I wouldn't like the taste of 14.5% alcohol, and it is a bit sweeter
than I usually like, but I like this one and it is good value $13.59.
http://www.winestar.com.au/prod285.htm
:-) I notice it is imported by a Napa Valley importer.
Dee
Dee Dovey
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:h2vrom$5oq$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I recently read the book. The movie based on it, STUNK!, but I have said
that prevoiusly :-)
Dee
Bi!!
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT), "Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com>
Can't disagree with the QPR issue but would disagree slightly with the
Oz comparison. I find their wines to be quite overdone, too extracted
at times, and very little to distinguish one from the other. I hate
to use the dreaded "t" word but to me Aussie wines seem to lack
variety within the varietal. I would agree with the Spain and French
QPR issue but if price is no object I have found many terrific
Cabernets and Chardonnays from California over the years at the $15-
$30. Not all of the Chards are overly oaky or sweet and the Cabs can
be world class. The top wines from California can be world class. If
I want a Rhone style wine then I buy a Rhone wine. I don't think that
the wines of California (or anyplace else for that matter) are
interchangeable just because they use the same varietal.
James Silverton
>I recently read the book. The movie based on it, STUNK!, but I have
>said hat prevoiusly :-)
Dee
I did a little too much cutting in this reply but you won't get much of
an argument from me about the book "The Judgement of Paris" and the
movie, which was even more padded than the book, even if I agree with
its premise.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Mark Lipton
> This matches my experience precisely, down to the Parallele 45
> example. There are many wonderful wines from CA, but I do most of my
> wine buying in the $10-$25 range and find much better QPR elsewhere.
>
> For under $20, I'm much more happy with a good village level Chablis
> than with an "oak monster chard" and happier with a Gigondas than with
> anything I've had from Napa at that price (OK, I realize that second
> comparison isn't like with like, but still).
>
> Not to mention the plethora of really interesting white grapes
> (Riesling, Albarino, Chenin Blanc, Melon de Bourgogne, Gruner...) that
> seem to have no serious representation in CA but that can be
> sensational.
Yeah, that pretty much sums up my feelings, too.
>
> To end on a positive note, how about favorite CA wines in the $10-$25
> range?
>
> I'll start:
>
> Matanzas Creek Sauvignon Blanc. (Though even here, for under $20
> I can get wines that are just as exciting from the Loire.)
OK, here's my list:
Edmunds St. John (Bone Jolly red & pink, Heart of Gold, Rocks and Gravel)
'07 Ridge Three Valleys (the first one I've liked)
Tablas Creek "Cotes de Tablas" red & white
Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
Joseph Coulter
wrote:
>
>Can't disagree with the QPR issue but would disagree slightly with the
>Oz comparison. I find their wines to be quite overdone, too extracted
>at times, and very little to distinguish one from the other.
There was a time that I wouldn't expend my dollars for Australian
either, but there are some good ones, Trevor Jones unoaked Chard for
about 12.50US for example is a case in point.
The Molly Dooker as discussed previously is another story
Bi!!
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:27:15 -0700 (PDT), "Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com>
Actually, I tend to move towards the Aussie chards for exatly the
example you cite...good brisk, unoaked Chards for under $15. Couldn't
agree more about the Molly Dooker....I do like it on my pancakes
though. I do think that California has swung back to the lighter,
less oaky, more Burgundian style of Chards by and large. Leese Fitch,
Joel Gott and Tortoise Creek are all pretty good chardonnays for under
$15.
Lawrence Leichtman
"Dee Dovey" <deed...@shentel.net> wrote:
Not sure I understand the question or any of the comments. All of
California is bad. Not a useful blanket statement. There are good and
bad wines everywhere. Maybe CA is not the best buy but there are
certainly some marvelous wines. My wife and I have probably tasted at
various places over 500 bottles this year alone. Maybe no more than a
sip of some. We go to wine events and try all we can. Only way to know
what to buy and what you like. I attended one event with 300 wines from
15 countries.
Lawrence Leichtman
Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Elyse Chardonnay $25, a host of Zinfandels including Ridge under $25.
Bi!!
> In article <h2vivi$5j...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> �"Dee Dovey" <deedo...@shentel.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "st.helier" <alphabet...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Doug Anderson
I'll keep an eye out for the Elyse. I've never seen it.
As far as Ridge, I like them too. Enough to pony up for Lytton
Springs every once in a while. But I sure don't see much Ridge
Zinfandel for under $25, and a lot of the zins I see that are on the
less expensive end aren't very good. What do you like that is under
$25?
I like the Ravenswood Sonoma, at least after it has had a few years of
age to settle down. That is a good example for me, since it is in my
price range (around $15) though I usually need to cellar it for a few
years.
Ken Blake
I agree completely with what you say. I would just add that there are
many many wines produced in California, and the enormous majority of
them are cheap, and either not particularly good or downright bad. The
only reason I can think of for Dee Dee to not like *all* California
wines is that her experience is mostly with the cheaper poorer-quality
wines.
Another addition just came to my mind: many of the better California
wines are made from the better grapes used in Europe and are made in
imitation of European wines. In a blind tasting of wines of a similar
type with wines from both California and Europe, it is often extremely
difficult to pick out which ones are from California.
--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Lawrence Leichtman
Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Several Rosenblums are under $25 and are quite good especially the Paso
Robles. Cline runs around 11-25 also quite good. Peachy Canyon at $18 I
liked. Four Vines $24, Marr Cellars $22 (Mendocino), Storr's $20. I have
tried all of these.
Ronin
> Several Rosenblums are under $25 and are quite good especially the Paso
> Robles. Cline runs around 11-25 also quite good. Peachy Canyon at $18 I
> liked. Four Vines $24, Marr Cellars $22 (Mendocino), Storr's $20. I have
> tried all of these.
I second the Storr's and Cline's and would add several of Wellington's.
There are also many bargains to be had in the Paso Robles area -
Melody for instance. I've found that there are quite a few QPR wines
from California with the massive plantings in the last five to ten
years and the current financial "downturn."
I have been prejudiced against Aussie wines as they all tasted like
they had been picked overripe - like PN from Lodi or such, but the last
few bottles I've tried were much lighter and more to my taste.
As to Loire, like them a lot, but I find them reticent in their youth,
so generally want to cellar them a few years, not my usual way to deal
with a US$10 wine.
Dee Dovey
"Ken Blake" <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:05h7559k8o0ur63ma...@4ax.com...
Well, I guess you know your wine. :-))
Dee Dee
Dee Dovey
"Dee Dovey" <deed...@shentel.net> wrote in message
news:h2vtkt$col$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I was too late; all sold out.
There are no country's wine aisles that I don't search through, except
California.
I'm not sure what it is about 'all' CA wines for me to make such a blanket
statement. If I do buy any, it usually goes down the sink.
We usually drink wine with food, and generally food will make a wine
'somewhat' palatable, but CA is an exception.
Dee
Richard Neidich
complex, I picked up some smoked meat in the aroma...but the flavor was
almost JL Chave Hermitage. I think mine was 2004 but would have to
check...I have more in cellar.
The HdV Chard is also a nice wine.
Roederer Estate, Anderson Valley is great for the Money. I acutally like
the L'Emeritage they do in Anderson, even more than any of Roederer other
bottlings from France or USA, including Kristal.
"Bi!!" <rvw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9c8ef0e1-7747-45ac...@h18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> > (1) ? ?2005 Au Bon Climat "Nuits-Blanches au Bouge XXV" from Santa Maria
> > Valley
> > (2) ? ?2006 Hyde de Villane Chardonnay - Napa Valley.
>
> > Both well made examples - I preferred the latter with the squid dish -
> > quite a serious wine with a good dollup of acid, mineral hints with ripe
> > nectarine flavours. The former was fleshy and ripe, spicy (oak?) pear
> > and
> > spice - very good but IMO the HdV was a better match.
>
> > Main course was Wild Goat Osso Bucco, with polenta fritta and cavolo
> > Nero;
> > three reds were poured (decanted three hours we were told!)
>
> > (3) ? ?2007 Jacob Franklin Petite Sirah - Hayne Vineyard, Napa Valley. I
> > liked this wine - inky black, smoked bacon / mushroom on the nose, hints
> > of ripe plums, black pepper and dark chocolate - good acid / fruit /
> > tannin, maybe a little out of balance owing to extreme youth, but this
> > went very well with the chevon.
> > (4) ? 2005 Hyde de Villaine "HdV" Carneros Syrah. I thought this wine
> > was
> > totally bizarre - I could not get past overpowering nose of burnt
> > rubber!
> > Medium weight, sappy, tight as hell. Unlike any syrah/shiraz I have had
> > in
> > my life.
> > (5) ? ?2005 Seghesio Family Old Vine Zinfandel. I picked the variety
> > immediately (thanks to gifts from Mark Lipton and Joseph Coulter. I
> > understand this wine is made from old (nearly 100 years) head-pruned
> > vines
> > from Alexander and Dry Creek valleys. I could become a real fan of this
> > style of wine.This wine was a dark purple hue with hints raisin and
> > spice.
> > Not overtly jammy or chewy, this Zin was a spicy, peppery wine, with a
> > hint of dark cherries.
>
> > The meal was finished with a selection of cheeses - served with another
> > red.
>
> > I was busy extolling the virtues of this wine, when I was put on the
> > spot
> > and asked to comment (followed by Nick Nobilo!)
>
> > I was initially torn - between a Pauillac and a quality CA Cabernet
> > Sauvignon. The wine was very Bordeaux like (and a very young example too
> > I
> > thought). Medium / full bodied, good acidity, clean style, cassis and
> > cedar - I opted for an excellent CA wines about 5 years old. (Nobilo
> > went
> > for a first growth Bordeaux as a tricky inclusion!)
>
> > When unveiled it proved to be Ridge Monte Bello 2003 (good guess by his
> > lordship!) - ?god! this was a very special wine!
>
> > Faced with a two hour drive home, I opted out of coffee and port -
> > trying
> > to think of a way to get my hands on a case of this wine (impossible I
> > am
> > afraid!)
>
> > Apart from the very weird showing of the HdV syrah, this was an
> > excellent
> > selection from the West Coast.
>
> > --
>
> > st.helier
>
> Why try to appreciate California wines?
>
> As an ex-California-er of 30 years, California wines are totally
> unacceptable to me. ?I buy an occasional Kirkland California wine, or one
> recommended by a wine shop, but I ?say ad infinitum, they are consistently
> terribly disappointing.
>
> I always am puzzled by ?the quantity of wines drunk or sampled from
> various
> posters from various countries. ?How can this be?:-))
Bi!!
> "Dee Dovey" <deedo...@shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> news:h2vtkt$col$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Joseph Coulter" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:rnr655lkpnps1fupj...@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT), "Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com>
Try doing some blind tastings. Do you think that you can pick out the
California wines in a group of wines if they are blind? What
California wines have you tried recently? What is the price point of
the wines that you've tried from California and elsewhere? Bulk wines
from California (and elsewhere for that matter) are generally loaded
with chemical additives that can have an off flavor to some folks.
They can be bitter or sweet or leave a bad after taste. These wines
usually go from juice to bottle in a few days with no barrel time or
aging at all. Two Buck Chuck is an example of this type of wine and
there is a distinctive bitter after taste to the wine that stems from
the additives used to flavor and soften the wine. COuld this be the
problem?
Dee Dovey
> I'm not sure what it is about 'all' CA wines for me to make such a blanket
> statement. ?If I do buy any, it usually goes down the sink.
> We usually drink wine with food, and generally food will make a wine
> 'somewhat' palatable, but CA is an exception.
> Dee- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Try doing some blind tastings. Do you think that you can pick out the
California wines in a group of wines if they are blind? What
California wines have you tried recently? What is the price point of
the wines that you've tried from California and elsewhere? Bulk wines
from California (and elsewhere for that matter) are generally loaded
with chemical additives that can have an off flavor to some folks.
They can be bitter or sweet or leave a bad after taste. These wines
usually go from juice to bottle in a few days with no barrel time or
aging at all. Two Buck Chuck is an example of this type of wine and
there is a distinctive bitter after taste to the wine that stems from
the additives used to flavor and soften the wine. COuld this be the
problem?
You are so kind to take the time to write. Even though I might be missing a
real treat, CA wines are not worth spending any time with.
I've been through the drill. I make the statement so others will realize
that there is one dissenter that doesn't like CA wines; however, that
statement is usually met by similar advice meant to be helpful to me. The
same thing happens when I express an opinion on two major kitchen products
that are very popular.
I might make an exception for Rutherford cabernet ;-))
http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1032777
Dee
Lawrence Leichtman
Ronin <notjbr...@qwest.not> wrote:
Australia is struggling to salvage their wine industry hit with pricing
issues, drought, poor decisions by wine makers. There are obviously many
good wines from Australia but the decision on what to try in the most
recent vintages is difficult. I have had almost no recent Shiraz
bottlings that I enjoy as they are intense fruit bombs that are not my
style. Still like many D'Arenberg wines but the prices can be daunting.
Ken Blake
wrote:
When you say you don't like the two major kitchen products, you are
expressing a specific dislike, and that's fine. You are certainly
entitled to that opinion, regardless of what anyone else's opinion is.
Similarly, if you said you didn't like two (or some other number, even
if much larger) specific California wines, I would say the same thing.
You would be expressing a specific dislike and that's fine. You are
entitled to that opinion, too. We all have different tastes and don't
have to like the same things.
But the problem is when you make a broad blanket statement saying you
don't like all California wines. Bi!!, in the message above, said much
the same things I said in an earlier post. Not all California wines
are the same, and many of them (but not all), especially the cheaper
ones, *are* poor. You certainly haven't tasted all California wines,
and you haven't told us which you have tasted and disliked.
I strongly recommend that you take part in a comparative blind tasting
of high-quality (not cheap) similar wines (of a grape you know and
like) from California and elsewhere, and do two things in the notes
you take: identify which wines are from California, and rate the wines
in what order of quality you think they deserve. I think you would be
very surprised at the results.
My personal view is that I evaluate the wines I taste without regard
to where they come from. In almost every part of the world that makes
wines, there are good ones, poor ones, and a bunch that are between
those extremes. My objective, when I buy wines, is finding wines I
like with prices that I can afford. And, again, I make those choices
in what I like and what I can afford without regard to where they come
from.
Bi!!
> "Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> Dee
I guess that's what is meant by "it's a woman's perogative"! While I
respect your opinion and we all have different tastes, I guess I just
don't get the logic. The 2005 Provenance is a prototypical California
Cabernet that is pretty much right in the middle of the pack in terms
of price, quality, flavor profile and you like it but you don't like
virtually any California wines.
James Silverton
>I guess that's what is meant by "it's a woman's perogative"! While I
>respect your opinion and we all have different tastes, I guess I just
>don't get the logic. The 2005 Provenance is a prototypical California
>Cabernet that is pretty much right in the middle of the pack in terms
>of price, quality, flavor profile and you like it but you don't like
>virtually any California wines.
Without disputing anyone's right to their own tastes, flat global
statements tend to make one think "troll". I know Dee Dovey does not
live under a bridge etc. but the use of a few actual rather than implied
"IMHO"s could help. I won't even say that I dislike *all* Georgian and
Moldavian (and I know where to buy them!) wines even if my experience
has not inclined me to try them again.
Dee Dovey
>
but the use of a few actual rather than implied
> "IMHO"s could help. I won't even say that I dislike *all* Georgian and
> Moldavian (and I know where to buy them!) wines even if my experience has
> not inclined me to try them again.
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
James, I did say that I liked a 'prototypical California Cabernet.' So I
guess it was a one-trillioneth bottle, which should prevent me from saying
I dislike "all" California wines.
Living in California and surrounding area for 30 years, visiting wineries
with friends, drinking their wine, and the ones I was given AND bought
myself at wine stores, and certainly not even close to a majority of those
wines being 'cheap' or 'uninformed,' I really can say for myself that I
dislike (all?) California wines.
IMHO,
and thanks for your reply,
Dee
Matt S
wrote:
>Irony, Australia may soon have to side with the "Old World" to defend
>terroir wines... now they too have to contend with cheap plonk from...
>somewhere...
From...New Zillund...:>)
hooroo....
st.helier
news:avnf55lr4pp15gd6r...@4ax.com...
Oh bugger off swoop!!!!!!
Have you been wearing those tight *tight* AFL shorts again - I told you they
strangled your thinking process!!!!!
Bloody great winter storm brewing here now - 200ml (8") of rain expected
over night - with 140kph winds blowing.
And I am going sailing tomorrow - YEEEEEHAAAAAA!
Cheers to SWMBO
st.helier
Matt S
G'day M'Lord,
Now you know I was tongue in cheek, however, there does seem to be a
flood on the market of gaudy labelled NZ Sauv. Blanc's. Grays Online
will get you a case from $50AUD, from iconic NZ wineries....:>)...Kiwi
Bay SB anybody?
Re the short shorts....you KNOW I've not worn them since the early
90's.... there are some things a gentleman of my age should not
do..... that is very high on the list. I will however be watching the
local footy this w/e as my local team,OFC FC take on the 2nd team, the
devastated KINGLAKE FC, the club that was at the epicentre of those
shocking fires. We are undefeated this season...yeehah!!
Our winter has been mild of late, good rains, but not bitterly cold.
The business has been sold, (my son and a long term employee bought
it), and I now have 5 days a week to pursue....well...nothing
really...:>)
Full steam ahead now to finish planning my "Around the World without
using an aeroplane" journey. The swim to NZ will be the toughest..:>)
Swmbo is fine, as I hope is your delightful partner. Good to hear
from you.
hooroo....
Joseph Coulter
<swooper@matt.s@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Full steam ahead now to finish planning my "Around the World without
>using an aeroplane" journey. The swim to NZ will be the toughest..:>)
>
>Swmbo is fine, as I hope is your delightful partner. Good to hear
>from you.
>
>hooroo....
Unless I miss my guess the swim from Andrew's to the US West Coast
will take the tar out of you. Of course you will be fortified with all
of that good NZ bubbly that his lordship is so fond of dispensing.
st.helier
> G'day M'Lord,
>
> Now you know I was tongue in cheek,
Of course my friend - no offence taken ;-)
> .....however, there does seem to be a
> flood on the market of gaudy labelled NZ Sauv. Blanc's.
Yes, I think it may have been Dale Williams in NYC who commented that he had
tried an unremarkable NZ SB (the name of which escapes me - something like
Scott Base "Frozen Testes" SB) - but, it appeared to be an importers label.
Many smaller wineries are doing it tough and will do anything to turn a
quid.
> Grays Online will get you a case from $50AUD, from iconic NZ wineries....
> ...Kiwi Bay SB anybody?
>
Don't laugh - when I first saw Monkey Bay SB for sale in the USA - I thought
to myself "what the f***!!!!!!!!!
But, the parent company (Constellation Brands) sells millions of cases now.
> Re the short shorts....you KNOW I've not worn them since the early
> 90's.... there are some things a gentleman of my age should not
> do..... that is very high on the list. I will however be watching the
> local footy this w/e as my local team,OFC FC take on the 2nd team, the
> devastated KINGLAKE FC, the club that was at the epicentre of those
> shocking fires. We are undefeated this season...yeehah!!
Matt, we now get a couple games of AFL played live each weekend on SkyTV.
Apart from the physical requirement neccessity to be 7'13" tall with the
ability to leap tall buildings, I still cannot fathom the rules - there are
rules - no?
There is talk of introducing Aussie Rules to NZ - except that the grounds
will stretch from coast to coast!
> The business has been sold, (my son and a long term employee bought
> it), and I now have 5 days a week to pursue....well...nothing
> really...:>)
Hey, I hope a lifetime, ongoing 100% discount was built into the sale
price!!!!!
> Full steam ahead now to finish planning my "Around the World without
> using an aeroplane" journey. The swim to NZ will be the toughest..:>)
I do not recommend swimming the Tasman - I have swum it twice (once in each
direction - the second when I was deported - fancy being deported from a
penal colony!!!!!).
I have also have rowed it - solo - (against the wind and current - part of
my circumnavigation of Antarctica)......
Seriously, I have sailed from Hobart to Auckland - some scary seas out
there.
I suggest you wait until a screaming westerly is forecast - the flight time
is then less than two hours Tullamarine to AuckInt.
Bring R - We could chase down a restaurant or two and some of those iconic
brands you mentioned.
GO KINGSLAKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
st.helier