What are you drinking tonight?
Michael Pronay
> It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 - some of us are having a
> quiet night with the family, others are busy with their
> professions and others again are busy partying.. :-).
I am in Schützen am Gebirge in the Burgenland province of Austria,
having slept at Taubenkobel hotel & restaurant (very recently having
become a relais gourmand within the Relais & Châteaux group).
Take a look: <www.taubenkobel.at> It's a venue unlike any other I know,
and one of the best restaurants in Austria.
My wife & I were celebrating our 10th wedding aniversary, and so
yestersay evening we had a phantastic meal including the finest wines
of the "collection taubenkobel", made by the best Burgenland
winegrowers: Mariel, Velich, Gernot Heinrich, Preisinger, Prieler...
M.
(Very happy about the hour the time switch gave us back...)
Anders Tørneskog
It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 - some of us are having a quiet
night with the family, others are busy with their professions and others
again are busy partying.. :-).
average consumption of this ng?
For me, it was Casillero del Diablo Cab. Sauv. 2001 of Chile, a very dark
chunky wine with flavors of blackcurrants and some prunes - a very
satisfying wine with good QPR and one I'm going to buy again.
Yours
Anders
(who had a quiet evening with wife and daughter - to be completed with caffe
latte and a home made chocalate cake :-)
Matthew Hutchings
drunken university "bop". Oops. Started well though - a 2000 Costieres de
Nimes Plan Macassan. It's 4.99GBP in Oddbins, and usually fantastic value.
It's a big brute of a wine - almost chewy. Last night's was disappointing
though. It was just too big, leaving me thinking I might enjoy it more with
a glass of water! I'd certainly recommend Oddbins' Chateau de Nages,
ideally the Cuvee Torres(8.99), but their standard wine (5.49) is also very
good. Never tried the whites.
Hope you all had as much fun as me!
Matthew
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
Yesss, it´sss my Birthday ... we were having fisssh ...
or, to be a bit more serious, we were ha ving a 7 course menu degustation at
Sofiero, which is the best resto in this region and arguably one of the best in
Sweden.
Started with a Cava, Sec, don´t remember its name.
Then, Stonybrook Sauvignon Blanc with lobster in a cassoulet; v good SB in an
Old World style, could even have passed as a low-middle end Sancerre.
Meursault 1995 Joseph Drouhin with halibut glazed with parsley, baked leeks, a
chicken fond ... that Meursault is worthy of its own [TN] and I´ll get back to
it ...
After a refraiche bouche (lime sorbet), on with Rioja Muga Reserva 1995, a very
worthy Rioja, still sprightly and fruity despite getting on in age, and as a god
club musician it played two sets - first with maigret de canard, then an
assortment of French cheese.
Finished with a vanilla bavaroise with sorbet of a very odd, Swedish fruit which
I don´t think exists in SOuthern Europe, it is called havtorn, the sorbet was a
wonderful red orange and tasted of heaven. This was served with a Moscato d´Asti
DOCG, and in itself worthy of a [TN]. Never tasted a MdA like that one, they
tend to have a slightly soda poppy quaffability lacking in compelxity - this was
Something Else.
I forgot the amuse bouche which was smoked eel glazed with Muscovado sugar and
Champagne vinegar, served with a creme brulée of peas and thyme (sic!).
> ... others
> again are busy partying.. :-).
Count me in this division.
Cheers
Nils Gustaf
Robčrt Koopman
"Anders Tørneskog" schreef in bericht :
> It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 - some of us are having a quiet
> night with the family, others are busy with their professions and others
> again are busy partying.. :-).
We had a quiet evening with frends. This was after our kids had to perform
at a mini piano-concert.
I opened two bottles of Bugey-Cerdon from Raphaël Bartucci, this is a great
sparkling rosé-ish wine.
And also a Banyuls (1997) from Chapoutier.
Regards,
Robèrt
Josh Passell
atorn...@c2i.net claimed:
> It'd be interesting to have an answer for this very evening - giving us an
> average consumption of this ng?
Eric Ross old vines Zinfandel, 1996--although I'm a little unclear what the
average of my zin, Michael's Burgenland wines, and Nils's Drouhin Meursault
would be.
Josh
Dale Williams
In article <5xNu9.10113$TK2.1...@juliett.dax.net>, "Anders Tørneskog"
<atorn...@c2i.net> writes:
>Saturday, the 26th of October 2002
>It'd be interesting to have an answer for this very evening
I did the cooking as my wife was playing a matinee. Pheasant leg quarters (saw
in local supermarkeyt, my 1st time cooking), baked potatoes, snow peas,
eggplant. Opened a 1999 Lamonthe-Bouscat (Pessac-Leognan) I have been given a
thank you for watching neighbor's cat as they were in France. Apparently they
bought on rec of salesperson at a Nicolas wineshop. Medocre Bdx, simple
grapey/plum fruit without much in the way of secondary flavors. THey're a glass
left, will try and see how a day treated it before I past my final judgment. :)
Happy birthday Nils and happy anniversary Michael!
.
Dale
Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply
Thierry ANDRE
I drank a 1997 Château Talbot (Saint-Julien) and it was great.
"Anders Tørneskog" <atorn...@c2i.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
5xNu9.10113$TK2.1...@juliett.dax.net...
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
> average of my zin, Michael's Burgenland wines, and Nils's Drouhin Meursault
> would be.
I will admit to also feeling a little unclear after yesterday´s libation.
However, in all, we had one glass (flute style) of Cava, a small-ish glass of SB
(8-10 cl?), a 12-15 cl glass of Meursault (thank you Lars Fogelklou, you´re a
toff), twice that of the Muga, and perhaps the same of the MdA, also served in a
flute, which, I think, is not traditional - Moscato d´Asti is normally served in
a wide cup, right? So, in all, up to 75 cl, over a period of approximately 4 hs.
Also about 50 cl of fizzy mineral water.
Cheers
Nils Gustaf
smoke
"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" <nils.l...@drchips.se> wrote in message
news:3DBBB9F0...@drchips.se...
Wow! So what were your presents?!
Bill Spohn
>Sofiero, which is the best resto in this region
Is that in Sofiero Castle in Helsingborg?
Cool - it also has one of the finest rhododendron gardens in Scandinavia!
Sounds like you had a great meal.
Bill Spohn
>> average consumption of this ng?
>
>
1989 Lasalle Blanc de Blancs Brut
1990 Hochheimer Herrnberg Riesling Spatlese Trocken (Kunstler)
1993 Armand Rousseau Gevrey-Chambertin
1979 Ch. Leoville Las Cases
1975 Ch. La Mission Haut Brion
1989 Dow Quinto do Bomfim
But we had guests over for dinner, so I don't think you could call it 'average
consumption'. Wish it were!
Josh Passell
wsp...@aol.com claimed:
> 1975 Ch. La Mission Haut Brion
Notes, Bill, notes!
gedh
1998 (£9), very rich & aromatic, strong blackcurrant & vanilla, one of my
favourites, & Ch. de Ribaute Corbieres 1999 (£8), medium-bodied, bright
cherries. Then bottle of Ch. Franc-Maillet Pomerol 1999 (£18), plums,
cedarwood, black cherry, very good tannins, soaked up some bread & brie
nicely.
Ed Rasimus
>Hi folks!
>It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 -
Having seen what some other folks around the world enjoyed and playing
by the rules, i.e. indicating what was picked for 10/26/02, I'm glad I
chose a nice bottle last night.
I had a '98 Pine Ridge Onyx. It's 54% malbec, 23% tannat, 23% merlot
done in the "black wine" style and I think they pull it off quite
nicely. It's a rich, chewy wine with all sorts of dark flavors like
leather, smoke and black cherries. When I first got it on release it
was very tannic and took a couple of hours to settle down in the
glass. Now, it's drinking quite nicely.
The wine stood up to a Chicken Paprika (I can't spell
papirkash)--James Beard recipe.
>
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** Coming in January '03
*** from Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN: 1588341038
Mark Lipton
damaged) and a 1999 Guenoc Petite Sirah with a selection of Finnish meats and
cheeses, as a prelude to an evening spent in a friend's hot tub to relieve the
stress of a 7.5-hr long promotions meeting yesterday. There was also a bottle
of Zubrowka Vodka tossed in afterward, as per our Finnish colleague's
predilections...
The Lynch Bages was lovely (cassis, olives, violets, pencil lead) but a bit on
the simple side, and not nearly as poweful as other '90s that we've had in the
last year, hence my question about heat damage -- the cork also showed some
seepage, but as it came from our cellar I am confident that any heat damage
must have occured in transit, not in cellar.
Mark Lipton
PRJ
Angels were locked in mortal combat with the San Francisco Giants (U. S.
Baseball World Series for those, likely most, who don't know or care). Four
couples got together to watch.
How's this for California eclectic?:
The ladies were more than pleased with Lemon Drop martinis. One of the men
stuck with Heineken; the three remaining shared a 1998 Chateau Montelena
Calistiga Cuvee Cabernet (very fruit forward, lots of berries, some prunes
and a nice, smooth finish), and a 1992 Heitz Napa Valley Cabernet (nose had
gone flat and kindof medicinal in a way, but the flavors were very deep and
rich - jammy, chocolate, prunes).
And the Angels won.... tying the series 3-3. From what we're reading here,
there's little interest in this series outside CA, let alone in the rest of
the world. More fun for us I guess.
Jan Bøgh
news:5xNu9.10113$TK2.1...@juliett.dax.net...
> It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 - some of us are having a quiet
> night with the family, others are busy with their professions and others
> again are busy partying.. :-).
Even though I've not seen this request yesterday I dare participiate in this
funny little poll anyway.
> It'd be interesting to have an answer for this very evening - giving us an
> average consumption of this ng?
Yesterday we (my wife, my grown up son and me )had a
Vernaccia di San Gimignano 2001 from Fattoria Sovestro
followed by Raimat Abadia '94 Costers del Segre.
regards
Jan
Emery Davis
>
> Hi folks!
> It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 - some of us are having a quiet
> night with the family, others are busy with their professions and others
> again are busy partying.. :-).
To a normandy horse breeders party (about 30) we contributed
a '99 Cairanne Cuvee d'Estevenas from Corrine Cotourier (sp). The
buffet was fresh ham steamed in hay (!), with the usual
gratin and grilled tomatoes. The wine went nicely, still
very young but now starting to close up, so I'll probably
forget about for at least 5 years. Then there was a lot of
sub-standard Bordeaux, alas standard for this sort of event.
(perhaps OT but for *tonight's* party we served a lovely
'90 Medoc Ch. Grandis, really in its prime now.)
-E
--
Emery Davis
Beaker
1995 Osborne LBV
--
> bkrrrrr, Director of Enlightenment \/ |\ _,,,---,,_ <
> CF++;TK++;TPI+++;A++;VF++;(v2.0) /\ PRrrr /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ <
> "I went to cyberspace and all I \/ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' <
> got was this stupid .sig" - Anonymous /\ '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL <
Jeffrey
than what I expected. Strong cherry flavors on the front, medium tannins
immediatly, but they opened up. Overall, a bit pricy at 30$.
jf
"Anders Tørneskog" <atorn...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:5xNu9.10113$TK2.1...@juliett.dax.net...
Xyzsch
>night with the family, others are busy with their professions and others
>again are busy partying.. :-).
>It'd be interesting to have an answer for this very evening - giving us an
>average consumption of this ng?
Funny you should ask.
99 Vouvray (Bourillon-Dorleans)
82 Leoville-Barton
82 Grand Puy Lacoste
82 Calon Segur
82 Lynch Bages
82 Gruaud Larose
89 Ch. La Tour Blanche (Sauternes)
This was a long awaited dinner and tasting, and definitely not average for me.
This was held at a friend's cabin on Casper Mountain. Fortuneately, we did not
have to walk the deep snow, but we were able to drive in using four-wheel
drive.
The 99 Vouvray was an appetizer served with grape leaves rolled with rice and
ground elk filling-served with lemon. This worked well, as the wine was fresh
and clean with good acidity,and a hint of lemon. I was surprised how sweet this
wine was. This is different than previous vintages I have had. I think sweet
sells.
The dinner consisted of hickory smoked beef tenderloin with a light barbecue
crust, potatoes with cheese sauce and stuffed broccoli casserole. Per my
request, the meal was kept simple, avoding strong flavors.
When I first opened these, they seemed dumb, mostly woody, but by dinner time
(one hour later) they had plenty of fruit and perfume.
Notes on featured wines:
Leoville Barton Nose of violets balanced by oak, swwet flavor, delicate.
Finishes a little woody.
Grand Puy Lacoste Roasted nose of cedar, very fruity, then pruny, raisiny. My
girlfriend said Port-like. I thought Chateauneuf du Pape. Finishes dry, a
liitle puckering.
Calon Segur Mint with mineral taste. Brick red color. Slight nose of brussels
sprouts, that was well integrated into the fruit flavors. Well balanced with
well integrated oak. This was lovely, after having some bad (lacking fruit)
bottes in the past. Maybe they were dumb, but this bottle really came together.
Lynch Bages Very little nose at first. Very sweet, fruity flavors. A little
vegetal nose, well integrated into the wine. Little tannin evident. Smoother
than GP Lacoste. I suspect this fruit bomb just overpowered what puckering
tannins there were in the background.
Gruaud Larose Musty nose, a little ripe olives and spice. Buttery flavors of
fatty oak well integrated into powerful fruit flavors. Very smooth finish. To
my taste, this was the heavyweight (and best) of the night.
89 Latour Blanche Yeasty nose, orange color, almost madierized, gasoline,
liqueur-like, apricots, almost like a cream sherry. Definitely one of the big
boys of Sauternes. There were some chocolates and coffee served, but I had this
alone.
Fill levels and corks were all quite good, even though they were stored in my
warm cellar(s) since 1985, and they suffered through two major moves. GP
Lacoste and Calon Segur were at shoulder. Leoville Barton and Gruaud Larose
were 1/4 inch above shoulder, while the Lynch Bages appeared to have no ullage.
Two of the corks broke during removal, but otherwise they were in good shape,
and moist. I decanted the GP Lacoste and Lynch Bages to open them up, but the
rest opened up in the bottle. We poured carefully.
Any of these would have made a lovely accompaniment to a dinner of beef, and
it's almost a shame to serve them all at once.
Alas, I'm left with four bottles of 82's-three Gruaud Larose and on GP Lacoste.
Tom Schellberg
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
Presents?! <With a hollow laugh> You think we can afford presents after a dinner
like that?! Seriously, my wife gave me a new backpack and my son a book on
Japanese cooking.
Cheers!
Nils Gustaf
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
Indeed it is.
> Cool - it also has one of the finest rhododendron gardens in Scandinavia!
Yes, quite - for some reason, rhododendron seems to get on very well in
Helsingborg (I have 5 in my garden). The rhododendron garden in the Sofiero
park was founded by the old king, Gustav VI Adolf - he died in 1973 and
willed the castle to the community of Helsingborg. THe park unfortunately was
left falling to pieces for several years, but the last decade has seen it
restored to its former glory.
I must say, you are well informed! Are you a rhododendron fan?
> Sounds like you had a great meal.
We did. Only cloud on the otherwise impeccavle heaven was that Lars
Fogelklou, chef extraordinaire and a really nice guy, was not there - he has
been ill, with sciatica, fr several weeks. They hope he´ll be back in the
kitchen next month.
Cheers
Nils Gustaf
Topi Kuusinen
> As luck would have it, last night we had a 1990 Lynch Bages
> (possibly heat damaged) and a 1999 Guenoc Petite Sirah with a
> selection of Finnish meats and cheeses, as a prelude to an evening
> spent in a friend's hot tub to relieve the stress of a 7.5-hr long
> promotions meeting yesterday.
Mark,
Just out of curiosity: What would these Finnish meats be? Cold-smoked
reindeer?
Cheers,
-Topi Kuusinen, Finland
Chuck Reid
Cave Spring Cellars 2000 Chardonnay
Fruity, full bodied with light oak.
2 bottles :>))
--
Regards,
Chuck
So much wine; So little time!
To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address
To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address
"Anders Tørneskog" <atorn...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:5xNu9.10113$TK2.1...@juliett.dax.net...
Bill Spohn
Well - a little bit - I am the secretary and webmaster of the Vancouver chapter
of the American Rhododendron Society - you may view my handiwork at
www.rhodo.citymax.com
I have somewhere around 800 different rhodos in my garden - about one for every
4-5 bottles of wine in the cellar, so I don't neglect my wine tasting 'duties'.
Mark Lipton
Topi Kuusinen wrote:
Yes, as well as some sausage whose name I (unfortunately) cannot
relate. The source was our hostess, who returns periodically to Finland
for new supplies (name withheld to protect her from US customs ;-)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Topi Kuusinen, Finland
Kippis!
Mark Lipton
Mike Tommasi
<atorn...@c2i.net> wrote:
>Hi folks!
>It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002 - some of us are having a quiet
>night with the family, others are busy with their professions and others
>again are busy partying.. :-).
>It'd be interesting to have an answer for this very evening - giving us an
>average consumption of this ng?
>For me, it was Casillero del Diablo Cab. Sauv. 2001 of Chile, a very dark
>chunky wine with flavors of blackcurrants and some prunes - a very
>satisfying wine with good QPR and one I'm going to buy again.
>Yours
>Anders
>(who had a quiet evening with wife and daughter - to be completed with caffe
>latte and a home made chocalate cake :-)
>
A bit late, since I just got home. Tonight, believe it or not, I had:
Alsace, vendanges tardives, Fronholz 2000, Domaine Ostertag
Condrieu, Fleurs d’automne 2001, Domaine Pierre Gaillard
Coteaux du Layon, Beaulieu 2000, Domaine Jo Pithon
Sauternes, Cru Barréjats 1996, Mireille Daret & Ph. Andurand
Sauternes, Chāteau Guiraud 1996, 1er Cru Classé
Quarts de Chaume, Chāteau de Suronde 1999, Francis Poirel
Coteaux du Layon, Grains Nobles 1999, Dom. Patrick Baudouin
Gaillac, Délire d’automne 2001, Domaine de Causse Marines
We had the same wines on Sunday, and Ian Hoare will confirm.
Mike
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
seems to be emerging ...
Cheers
Nils Gustaf
Dale Williams
<mi...@tommasi.org> writes:
>Alsace, vendanges tardives, Fronholz 2000, Domaine Ostertag
>Condrieu, Fleurs d’automne 2001, Domaine Pierre Gaillard
>Coteaux du Layon, Beaulieu 2000, Domaine Jo Pithon
>Sauternes, Cru Barréjats 1996, Mireille Daret & Ph. Andurand
>Sauternes, Château Guiraud 1996, 1er Cru Classé
>Quarts de Chaume, Château de Suronde 1999, Francis Poirel
>Coteaux du Layon, Grains Nobles 1999, Dom. Patrick Baudouin
>Gaillac, Délire d’automne 2001, Domaine de Causse Marines
Quite the sweet tooth, huh!
dougie
Ian Hoare
Just got back home after a few days' absence.
28 Oct 2002 04:20:27 GMT, you asked:-
>>It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002
[snip]
>>It'd be interesting to have an answer for this very evening - giving us an
>>average consumption of this ng?
As it happens I just had water that night (after 7 champagnes on Thursday
night and 7 big reds on Friday night!!
However, on Sunday we had:-
Alsace, vendanges tardives, Fronholz 2000, Domaine Ostertag
Condrieu, Fleurs d’automne 2001, Domaine Pierre Gaillard
Coteaux du Layon, Beaulieu 2000, Domaine Jo Pithon
Sauternes, Cru Barréjats 1996, Mireille Daret & Ph. Andurand
Sauternes, Chāteau Guiraud 1996, 1er Cru Classé
Quarts de Chaume, Chāteau de Suronde 1999, Francis Poirel
Coteaux du Layon, Grains Nobles 1999, Dom. Patrick Baudouin
Gaillac, Délire d’automne 2001, Domaine de Causse Marines
Macon Domaine de Bon Grain botrytisé Jean Thevenet.
And yes, whether you believe it or not, these wines went with a complete
meal cooked by Dominici in Carmagnola.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.
Jan Bøgh
news:20021028093027...@mb-ch.aol.com...
> Well - a little bit - I am the secretary and webmaster of the Vancouver
chapter
> of the American Rhododendron Society - you may view my handiwork at
> www.rhodo.citymax.com
> I have somewhere around 800 different rhodos in my garden
Whauw - and I found my piddling 100+ species many.
I've just been i BC once, but I remember that one of my first thoughts was
that the climate seemed perfect for growing rhododendrons.
> - about one for every
> 4-5 bottles of wine in the cellar, so I don't neglect my wine tasting
'duties'.
One should allways avoid narrow mindedness :-)
regards
Jan
Anders Tørneskog
The range of wines drunk that saturday/sunday was great, as expected and it
is also obvious that some of us do drink pretty well... and need water at
times
> ...Délire d'automne... :-)
I'd expected some more 'ordinary' wines - but it's possible that some find
it embarrassing to admit they're not having prestigious wines?
Anyway - this little poll met with some success and I'll sure repeat it at
some future and undecided time in winter! Maybe a blue Monday, maybe a
good Friday - who knows?
Skål, everybody!
Anders
Mark Lipton
Ian Hoare wrote:
>
>
> However, on Sunday we had:-
>
> Alsace, vendanges tardives, Fronholz 2000, Domaine Ostertag
> Condrieu, Fleurs d’automne 2001, Domaine Pierre Gaillard
> Coteaux du Layon, Beaulieu 2000, Domaine Jo Pithon
> Sauternes, Cru Barréjats 1996, Mireille Daret & Ph. Andurand
> Sauternes, Chāteau Guiraud 1996, 1er Cru Classé
> Quarts de Chaume, Chāteau de Suronde 1999, Francis Poirel
> Coteaux du Layon, Grains Nobles 1999, Dom. Patrick Baudouin
> Gaillac, Délire d’automne 2001, Domaine de Causse Marines
> Macon Domaine de Bon Grain botrytisé Jean Thevenet.
And what did you think of these wines? Any standouts? Is it safe to assume
that Gaillard's "Fleurs d'automne" is a sweet Condrieu? If so, what's your
take on sweet viognier?
Mark Lipton
Mark Lipton
"Anders Tørneskog" wrote:
Very good idea, Anders. It made for some entertaining reading and certainly
sparked a lot of responses. I also wonder about all the "vin de table" that
we didn't hear about. Too bad, IMHO.
Mark Lipton
Mike Tommasi
wrote:
Hi Mark
the wines were mostly excellent, the problem is that the matching to
food was not up to us but to a recognized (star) chef, and some of us
had a hard time with the matches. The food was great, but the chef had
obviously never worked with these kinds of wine... Funny, Ian was one
of the least critical among us, the winemakers on the other hand were
fidgeting a lot.
I say this because earlier in the day we tasted the same wines (plus a
Deiss 2000 GC Altenberg de Bergheim, Pinot Gris SGN) in a workshop
with a french chef, Henri Gagneux, who made the most awe inspiring,
truly amazing matches. These were:
Fromage de tźte with roses
>>>Alsace, vendanges tardives, Fronholz 2000, Domaine Ostertag
Pork Nems with spices
>>>Condrieu, Fleurs d’automne 2001, Domaine Pierre Gaillard
Saint-Jacques in aspic with cardamom
>>>Coteaux du Layon, Beaulieu 2000, Domaine Jo Pithon
Foie gras with beetroot juice, honey bread, balsamic vinegar
>>>Sauternes, Cru Barréjats 1996, Mireille Daret & Ph. Andurand
Duck escalope with orange powder and Parma ham
>>>Sauternes, Chāteau Guiraud 1996, 1er Cru Classé
Raw foie gras escalope marinated in salt and white Alba truffle
>>>Alsace GC Altenberg, Pinot Gris SGN 2000, Dom. Marcel Deiss
Salted morrel plan with candied lemon
>>>Quarts de Chaume, Chāteau de Suronde 1999, Francis Poirel
Tajine d’agneau au gingembre
>>>Coteaux du Layon, Grains Nobles 1999, Dom. Patrick Baudouin
Confit de lapereau au coing et épices
>>>Gaillac, Délire d’automne 2001, Domaine de Causse Marines
Here the result was truly 1+1 = 3, the variation in texture from mush
to crunchy anf flaky, the range of tastes amazing, and each
combination without exception brought out the best in the wine and in
the food, not by dullling and flattening everything, but truly by
exploding every flavour.
The best match to me was Mireille Daret's truly Yquem-class Sauternes,
from the commune of Barsac (about $40 per bottle), with the FG on this
bed of slightly acidified beetroot, it just blew my mind, the
Barrejats has quite an acidity that you dont find in most Sauternes.
The best wine? Hard to tell. The Pithon was not at its best, and BTW
the winemaker is not doing so well, I even heard he's given up. At
least 3 more on the list don't know how they will keep going (that is
why I organized these events, to try to get their stuff known).
Most important of all, we made a point of explaining that the dinner
and workshop must not turn into a comparative wine tasting, but an
exercise in matching naturally concentrated sweet wines to food, in an
attempt to break the common notion that these are dessert wines.
Condrieu is by tradition sweet, and the dry Condrieu is a recent
invention. Gaillard will passionately explain that up to 50 years ago
there was only sweet Condrieu, and that it was untreated so that it
was guaranteed to pop its corks if you tried to transport it anywhere;
it would definitely never make it to nearby Lyon! Gaillard makes the
best one.
All these winemakers belong to SAPROS, a french association of makers
of noble rot wines who agree to a charter and refuse to use
chaptalization, reverse osmosis, cold extraction and all the other
artificial methods. Their wines are all great. They are 13 in all,
i.e. the 9 above plus Domaine de Bongran (Macon), Nicolas, Chidaine
and Delesvaux in the Loire. The count Alexandre de Lur Saluces (Yquem)
is the honorary president. Go see www.saprog.org
I will be organizing a mega-event (on our scale that means 200 people)
in Paris sometime in early 2003 around these wines, with the same chef
that made the nibbles above, the truly remarkable Henri Gagneux of La
Petite Palette (Neuf-Brisach). And maybe at Vinexpo. And by then Lur
Saluces will be retired, so he'll be there too. And, how could I
forget, Ian of course, if I can twist his arm.
Bye
Mike
Joseph B. Rosenberg
On 10/26 I had dinner at Les Halles in Montreal--they had half bottles of
Mercuray 1998 by an anonymous producer but I ordered a 2000 Cotes du Rhone
to go with my rack of lamb, although I forgot the producer's name, I
remember the price was $24 Canadian and the wine was very good. Burgundy
even in half bottles is too risky!
--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg
"dougie" <doug_s...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:JrIv9.6805$iW.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Jan Bøgh
news:3DC07F94...@purdue.edu...
> "Anders Tørneskog" wrote:
> > Anyway - this little poll met with some success and I'll sure repeat it
at
> > some future and undecided time in winter! Maybe a blue Monday, maybe a
> > good Friday - who knows?
> > Skål, everybody!
>
> Very good idea, Anders. It made for some entertaining reading and
certainly
> sparked a lot of responses. I also wonder about all the "vin de table"
that
> we didn't hear about. Too bad, IMHO.
Maybe caused by the fact that saturday night for most oenophiles are the
evening where the best wines are enjoyed.
regards
Jan
- who tonight are going to drink a Promesa Rosso Salento 2000 of a more
modest nature or maybe (I have to decide in a very few minutes)a Rosso di
Montefalco '98.
Dale Williams
<jan@boegh._X_net> writes:
>Maybe caused by the fact that saturday night for most oenophiles are the
>evening where the best wines are enjoyed.
I'd agree. In my case a weeknight might have been more likely to uncover the
CdRs, Borsao, Cline CA zin, Clos Roche Blanche Touraine Sauvignon, Pepiere
(Olivier) Muscadet, etc that make up the bulk of my consumption (actually, I
probably would have been happier with any of those than the mediocre Bdx I
listed).
For a representative sample of everyday quaffs, maybe we could try this: Pick a
several day period, ask everyone to list the bottles they drank at home in a
normal family situation- no dinner partys, offlines, tastings, or celebrations.
Is that too dull?
Ian Hoare
Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:58:26 +0100, you commented:-
>the wines were mostly excellent, the problem is that the matching to
>food was not up to us but to a recognized (star) chef, and some of us
>had a hard time with the matches. The food was great, but the chef had
>obviously never worked with these kinds of wine... Funny, Ian was one
>of the least critical among us, the winemakers on the other hand were
>fidgeting a lot.
Hmm, yes, I was. What _I_ found was that in many of these dishes, the match
with the wine was surprisingly good. Surprisingly, because it IS surprising
to find someone even TRY to match fresh cepes(porcini) in a cream sauce
with a VT Gewurztraminer!!!! And yes I thought that was an excellent match.
Dominici might have perhaps made a better match between the Gewurz and the
wild boar sauteed with cajun spices and chutney, but this is a very
personal taste.
You may be right that he's not had much experience with matching 9 intense
sweet wines with an entire menu. But hands up those who have!!!
Where I _would_ criticise him, was that I felt he chose a lazy solution to
the problem in many cases. Basically, he made a reduction of pan juices
with the wine to be matched (which more or less guaranteed _some kind_ of
match), flavoured up with this or that, and then enriched it with cream.
That was fine for one, maybe even two dishes, but not 5 in a row. And then,
to cap it, after FIVE (count em) creamy sauces, he goes completely OTT with
the Tortino (which I'd perhaps have described as a fonduta) of cheese round
a quail's egg, topped with slices of white truffle. Ouf!! But the _matches_
were good, I felt, with the exception of the oysters, for which the Baudoin
did nothing, and the use of a large shrimp in the first dish. Actually I
felt that choosing two sorbets for the dessert was perverse. That was a
perfect opportunity to do something astonishing and it was missed. I have
to say that on balance I felt the exercise was successful, though perhaps
marred by what I'd describe as a case of swelled head. However, he's not
the only person in the restaurant business who suffers from that and I
wonder if someone of the stellar reputation of Bocuse or Bras would even
have been prepared to try!
>I say this because earlier in the day we tasted the same wines (plus a
>Deiss 2000 GC Altenberg de Bergheim, Pinot Gris SGN) in a workshop
>with a french chef, Henri Gagneux, who made the most awe inspiring,
>truly amazing matches.
Hmm, I'd not describe ALL the matches as awe inspiring, it has to be said.
None were as poor as the oysters/Coteau de Layon, nor the dessert.
I agree 100% with you that the variation of textures was FAR better, and
that the foie gras with beetroot and pain d'épices was a masterpiece.
However, I didn't care for the bunny, which was a mush of rabbit on a mush
of sort of quincey fruit that neither went with the wine nor itself, I'm
afraid - not for me, anyway. I use quinces quite a lot with meat, (it's a
long tradition on Armenian cooking, which I adore) and pork or pheasant or
guinea fowl would have been far more successful, I think.
However I agree with you that the marriage of the foie gras with Mireille's
Sauternes was phenomenal. I also adored the tagine, though I was less
thrilled by the match. Neither Jacquie nor I liked the raw foie gras very
much. But that might have been in part due to the order of service. I've
had raw fg a number of times, the best ever was where it was served as a
kind of "butter" to go with three mi-cuit foies gras served by Daguin in
Auch in a menu dégustation, and about the worst was that served atop
Henri's dish for the champagne evening. However, that wasn't his fault as
the fg wasn't up to scratch. All that said, I prefer my FG slightly cooked
to raw. I think serving it that way is a slightly perverse fashion. But
then I'm an old stick in the mud.
>Most important of all, we made a point of explaining that the dinner
>and workshop must not turn into a comparative wine tasting, but an
>exercise in matching naturally concentrated sweet wines to food, in an
>attempt to break the common notion that these are dessert wines.
I was amazed at how successful most of these matches were.
>All these winemakers belong to SAPROS, a french association of makers
>of noble rot wines who agree to a charter and refuse to use
>chaptalization, reverse osmosis, cold extraction and all the other
>artificial methods.
We MUST get them to enlarge their membership to non-french winemakers, it
seems to me. For example, I think Michael P will confirm that in Austria,
most of those techniques are already forbidden!! I am sure that the same is
true of the best Hungarian Tokaji growers, and that may equally be true in
Germany for sweet wines.
>I will be organizing a mega-event (on our scale that means 200 people)
>in Paris sometime in early 2003 around these wines, with the same chef
>that made the nibbles above, the truly remarkable Henri Gagneux of La
>Petite Palette (Neuf-Brisach). And maybe at Vinexpo. And by then Lur
>Saluces will be retired, so he'll be there too. And, how could I
>forget, Ian of course, if I can twist his arm.
Twist his arm? You'd have to nail him down to keep him away. That said, are
you sure Henri would be able to feed 200 to the same level of excellence?
It would be REALLY sad if he over-reached himself. I know it sounds
invidious, but I'd cut down the number of wines/courses to something like 6
(with perhaps the remaining ones on offer with two or three blue cheeses at
the end of the meal- why not top stilton, real roquefort (not inoculated)
and real Gorgonzola ) AFTER the dessert, à l'Anglais.
So:- (remember that I am a real maniac for menu planning)
A soup - yes, I think it would be possible to find a match.
Shellfish - I LOVED that St Jaques in Aspic
Pheasant breasts vallee d'auge with game chips (ONE creamy dish would be
OK, and I like to put a tsp or two of quince helly into it) or
alternatively something like those nems (I'd have preferred crab to pork,
by the way) for crunchiness.
Lamb tagine
Magret au gros sel (yes, I know it's a hoarey cliché dish, but I'm
persuaded it would have been even better as a match) I don't know what I'd
serve with it....
A REAL trou of some kind, does Ostertag do a marc de Gewurztraminer?
NOW I'd serve a mi-cuit cold foie gras - in aspic even, but that would
disbar the St Jacques
I like my veg, so I'd want to serve a veg dish. GAWD knows what in mid
winter. Glazed Carrots & parsnips? They have certain sweetness, and if
caramelised, I could see them as going well with a sweet wine, a case for
deglazing perhaps.
Gotta have a dessert tart after all this. Hey, how about REALLY shocking
people and doing an English apple pie served WITH cheddar, and an appley
Loire wine.
And the cheddar would lead into the blue cheeses.
Oh... that's eight courses. (plus the trou alsacien and the cheeses). Well
perhaps we could cut out the cocky-ollie bird and "only" do 7.
Hey, that was FUN!
Ian Hoare
Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:59:23 -0500, you asked:-
>> Alsace, vendanges tardives, Fronholz 2000, Domaine Ostertag
>> Condrieu, Fleurs d’automne 2001, Domaine Pierre Gaillard
>> Coteaux du Layon, Beaulieu 2000, Domaine Jo Pithon
>> Sauternes, Cru Barréjats 1996, Mireille Daret & Ph. Andurand
>> Sauternes, Chāteau Guiraud 1996, 1er Cru Classé
>> Quarts de Chaume, Chāteau de Suronde 1999, Francis Poirel
>> Coteaux du Layon, Grains Nobles 1999, Dom. Patrick Baudouin
>> Gaillac, Délire d’automne 2001, Domaine de Causse Marines
>> Macon Domaine de Bon Grain botrytisé Jean Thevenet.
>
>And what did you think of these wines? Any standouts?
For me, at least, the Barréjats. After Vinexpo last year, when I bored
Jacquie and myself silly solemnly tasting some 80 sweet wines from
Sauternes\Barsac and being woefully disappointed by almost every single one
of them, I decided to renounce the area, in favour of Monbazillacs, where
at least some of them make honest wines. (I'm sorry to be so acidulous, but
I LOVE sweet wines, and it really hurts to see the genre so betrayed).
Quite by accident, a mutual friend of Mike's & mine Jean-Philippe Héaumé
who had procured me some Rumanian plonk suggested I meet him for a tasting
called "Toqué d'Evohé" (unpronounceable) to collect the wines. At that
tasting, I had the great pleasure of meeting some truly remarkable french
winemakers. I don't agree with everything all of them seek to do, but thay
were all animated by the streak of insanity that is the essential component
of world changers. And it was there that I first tasted Mireille Daret's
Sauternes (she was refused a place at the main tasting) and the Coteaux de
Layon from Patrick Baudoin that Mike's written about. Her wine reconciled
me with Sauternes, and even though it is about $50 a bottle I've ordered
half a case from her.
But that said, there wasn't a bad wine (at least one of the Pithon bottles
was corked - and yes I recognised it, Mark - and the Guiraud was VERY
closed in, IMO) amongst them. No, that's damning with faint praise. They
were all outstanding, and magic examples of top class sweet wines. Put very
simply I think anyone seeing ANY of these Sapros members' wines should
mortgage their wives, and send their houses out on the streets to allow
themselves to buy them.
> Is it safe to assume that Gaillard's "Fleurs d'automne" is a sweet Condrieu?
Yup, just as the Thevenet Domaine du Bongran was a sweet Chardonnay.
> If so, what's your take on sweet viognier?
I couldn't generalise, Mark. THIS wine was glorious, though not as flowery
as other (dry) viogniers that I've drunk. It's hard to distinguish between
the flavours integral to the grape, if it's allowed to become as ripe as
that, and those elements brought by the noble rot. I know one normally says
that noble rot brings flavours of apricot (dried or crystallised) and
peach, sometimes, honey, and so on, but I've tasted ALL these in dry(ish)
wines from a variety of grapes. Think of an old Savenničres. The finish is
so honeyed one could almost imagine it was something like hippocras or
mead!!
But coming back ot the viognier, I've not drunk a hell of a lot of them,
but I'd simplify in saying that the floweriness is perhaps most noticeable
because the flavour is relatively light. If you'd agree with that analysis,
then given that this botrytised one had all the concentration and depth of
a top sweet wine, it's perhaps not surprising that the floweriness would
recede slightly into the background.
Bill Spohn
>sweet wines with an entire menu. But hands up those who have!!!
That is a tough task. At the risk of droning on about wine with food, let me
offer some of the things we've tried that worked passably well.
1 - Here's the menu we ended up with for a tasting of Yquem (vintages beside
the course)
1980, 1987 - canapés featuring such things as seared tuna, foie gras on tiny
half figs, and rare bits of thinly sliced tenderloin garnished with slivers of
orange rind
1988, 1989, 1990 - Nova Scotia lobster and celery root smoked cod brandade with
Granny Smith apple, all stuffed into a cylinder of pastry, served on a lemon
nage.
1982, 1986 - Timbale of oyster and chanterelle mushrooms in a shallot
reduction, served with sauternes ver jus, and a small bundle of green beans
1970, 1971, 1976 - Cinnamon stewed confit of duck in a cabbage wrap with
honey-thyme toasted turnips.
1967, 1975, 1983 - warm savoury (thyme) apricot tart with toasted walnuts and
Fourme d’Ambert cheese
I am drooling at the memory.
2 - with Rayne Vigneau:
1921, 1955 - terrine of Quebec Foie Gras and Sauternes gelee
1937, 1933, 1945 - all with Stilton (went very well)
1917, 1959 - chilled lobster salad
1926, 1928, 1947 - Roquefort and nuts
The Rayne Vigneau event was spread over 2 days with 1978 Burgundies on one day
and 1966 Bordeaux on the other, with Sauternes at each end of the meal.
The Yquem event was an all Sauternes dinner, which was more challenging, but
absolutely wonderful!
Anders Tørneskog
"Dale Williams" <dwm...@aol.comdamnspam> wrote in message
news:20021031133824...@mb-fa.aol.com...
> For a representative sample of everyday quaffs, maybe we could try this:
Pick a
> several day period, ask everyone to list the bottles they drank at home in
a
> normal family situation- no dinner partys, offlines, tastings, or
celebrations.
> Is that too dull?
>
this ng at a random day - all the way from Petrus to some Algerian plonk :-)
Secondly, most of us don't take notes, I believe, but you should be able to
tell about the wine you had most recently. Our great note communicators do
a wonderful job (thanks to you all), but the rest of us need a little
prodding... If this thread revealed good buys or bad ones or provided
inspiration for a change of the standard fare, then it served well.
Anders
Beaker
On a snowy 10/30/02 I washed down a delicious dinner of baked brie
and turkey & jalapeno pizza-breads with Goats do Roam 2001 from S.Africa.
I did indeed smell a hint of wet goat in there. Everything was yummy.
That is all...
bkr
Kirk Scottland
I'll bite. Last night and tonight, I had Cristom Marjorie Vineyard Pinot
Noir, 1999 (Oregon, USA). Absolutely my favorite pinot noir. Heavier and
fuller bodied than the usual candied cherry pinots, with dark berry and
earthy tones, ending with an inkling of a sweet whiskey note.
Earlier this week was some Pouilly-Fuisse from Michael Picard, and Macon
Villages from Duboeuf and Domaine des Gerbeaux Le Clos Solutre'. The
Duboeuf was as usual a great QPR, lemon rocks and little oak, with the
Gerbeaux just a little more oak.
Emery Davis
[snip amusing and delicious sounding post]
> the end of the meal- why not top stilton, real roquefort (not inoculated)
> and real Gorgonzola ) AFTER the dessert, à l'Anglais.
Enlighten us about roquefort inoculation, O child of the south-west.
I understood that to be called roquefort, it's gotta be affiner in
the cave in Roquefort where the penicillen lives. Where do the
injections come in?
We usually get Papillon, do you call that "real?"
(First post here with Mozilla, jeez is it possible there's no
spell check?! :()
-E
--
Emery Davis
Ian Hoare
le 31 Oct 2002 21:42:32 GMT, tu disais:-
When I said this, I might have guessed...
>>You may be right that he's not had much experience with matching 9 intense
>>sweet wines with an entire menu. But hands up those who have!!!
>
>That is a tough task. At the risk of droning on about wine with food, let me
>offer some of the things we've tried that worked passably well.
Chuckle. And with Yquem, to boot. I've not had many (like two or three)
Yquems, but I _have had many wines only _slightly_ less stellar, and for my
money (and it will be, when I have to pay for my order) the Cru Barréjats
was right up there. Where Yquem does 10 or so tries, Mireille and Philippe
were out there picking every single day in October in '96!! OK they have a
small property and it's possible for them where it wouldn't be for most
Sauternes. The results however justify the effort, IMO. Anyway, that's not
the subject.
>1 - Here's the menu we ended up with for a tasting of Yquem (vintages beside
>the course)
Some extremely interesting choices there, Bill.
I was interested to see that you had lobster, which I always feel has the
potential to match top sweet wines (never tried it - chicken!)
>1970, 1971, 1976 - Cinnamon stewed confit of duck in a cabbage wrap with
>honey-thyme toasted turnips.
Aha, duck again.
>1967, 1975, 1983 - warm savoury (thyme) apricot tart with toasted walnuts and
>Fourme d’Ambert cheese
Fascinating.
>1937, 1933, 1945 - all with Stilton (went very well)
Yup, I can imagine.
>The Yquem event was an all Sauternes dinner, which was more challenging, but
>absolutely wonderful!
Coo! Who did the menu planning? You often talk about these long dinners,
but rarely about how the planning process takes place!
Bill Spohn
>>absolutely wonderful!
>
>Coo! Who did the menu planning? You often talk about these long dinners,
>but rarely about how the planning process takes place!
>
>
The Yquem event was arranged by Albert Givton, who had amassed all of the
vintages of Yquem over the years. Surprisingly, he chose as a venue the 4
Seasons Hotel in Vancouver, but the level of cuisine has been rising in the
hotel trade in the past few years and Douglas Anderson, the chef there at the
time had prior experience with Yquem and matching it to food.
Nevertheless, Albert told me it was probably the most difficult food matching
task he has ever undertaken, and much testing went on, using lesser Sauternes
with various food candidates, before the final menu was established.
The events that I organise tend to be a little easier to organise, as they
feature 'normal' French or Italian wines, for instance (I am planning a 20 year
Sassicaia vertical for the Spring, and have a couple of other thoughst in the
planning stage)
I'll be over at Albert's for dinner next week and he makes us dance for our
dinner - often with blind tastings that are always fascinationg - last time we
had 20 year old Ch. Grillet - try and nail that one blind!
Ian Hoare
Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:49:45 -0800, you wondered:-
>Ian Hoare wrote:> Hi Mike,
>[snip amusing and delicious sounding post]
>> the end of the meal- why not top stilton, real roquefort (not inoculated)
>> and real Gorgonzola ) AFTER the dessert, à l'Anglais.
>Enlighten us about roquefort inoculation, O child of the south-west.
A pleaasure.
Oversimplifying vastly, making most blue cheeses is a two part process.
First the milk is "split", formed into moulds and (sometimes) pressed. Then
a culture of penicillium roquefortii (or a strain thereof) is injected into
the moulds using (I think) stainless steel rods. It used to be copper,
but...
The cheese, inoculated with the bacillum is then allowed to age in cellars
until it has reached the level of "bluemess" required of it. At which point
it is sold. I don't remember whether it is wrapped in foil before or after
the affinage, probably after.
>I understood that to be called roquefort, it's gotta be affiner in
>the cave in Roquefort where the penicillen lives.
Correct, but the milk doesn't HAVE to come from any particular area, iirc.
I heard dark rumours of white cylinders travelling all the way from
Corsica.
> Where do the injections come in?
They get the bacillum into the middle of the cheese quicker, making the
affinage shorter.
>We usually get Papillon, do you call that "real?"
Err, not really. If you take a mould of roquefort, put it in the caves, and
leave it there long enough, the cheese becomes "infected" naturally. This
makes for a far more subtly flavoured cheese. I've only ever had it a
couple of times, and it was as much better than standard Société, as Yquem
is better than your local "casino" sauternes.
However, such a cheese is extremely rare, and Roquefort Cave des
Baragnaudes or Papillon black label are also pretty yummy too.
>(First post here with Mozilla, jeez is it possible there's no
>spell check?! :()
With Mozilla, anything is possible. That said, I _have_ a spell checker in
Agent, but never use it. (In case anyone was in any doubt).
>-E
Mark Lipton
spell checker that is bundled with Netscape is from another company, and
is a closed source project, it cannot be included with Mozilla.
You can, however, add a spell checker to Mozilla easily, by installing
an open-source spell checker at Mozdev.org. This project provides an
"XPI" (cross platform installable) file. Several versions of the XPI are
available, depending on which Mozilla version they work with. First
determine which Mozilla version you are using (by going to Help| About
Mozilla), and then click on the appropriate XPI link. You will be asked
to confirm that you want to install a piece of software. Click OK to
proceed. Once it has been successfully downloaded and installed, restart
Mozilla. Open Composer, and you should see the Spell button added to the
toolbar:
[from Mozilla's Help Contents]
HTH
Mark Lipton
Mike Tommasi
<ianhoare...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
snip
correct, Roquefort does not involve pressing or cooking.
>Correct, but the milk doesn't HAVE to come from any particular area, iirc.
>I heard dark rumours of white cylinders travelling all the way from
>Corsica.
Actually, I believe that traditional roquefort was made with corsican
brocciu brought to the caves in Roquefort.
snip
>However, such a cheese is extremely rare, and Roquefort Cave des
>Baragnaudes or Papillon black label are also pretty yummy too.
>
Papillon black is the one sold to specialist cheesemongers, whereas
the red is intended for supermarkets. Somehow finding ou that the
Farine family that owns Papillon supports the Front National has made
me less enthusiastic about Papillon black...
Ian, remember the not-inoculated gorgonzola you tasted at aperitif
last sunday night? Accompanied the Layon quite well. As for the
oysters, I was not convinced...
Mike
Dale Williams
<kscot...@forpresident.org> writes:
>
>I'll bite. Last night and tonight
LAst couple nights have been somewhat typical for me. 2001 Clos Roche Blanche
Touraine Sauvignon (easily equivalent of most Sancerres at half the price, I
have some philosophical skepticism re biodynamics, but between this,
Chapoutier, Joly, Huet, Leroy, etc results at least are impressive) with
seafood risotto and 2000 Terres Dorées (Brun) Beaujolais L'Ancien VV (very
nice Gamay, kind of reminds you of a good if austere Volnay, a deal at around
$10)with pizza after a long evening passing out candy (my little town closes
streets in downtown on Halloween, all the ofices & stores pass out candy to
hundreds of costumed kids-very cute).
Emery Davis
[snip cheesy description]
>
>>We usually get Papillon, do you call that "real?"
>
>
> Err, not really. If you take a mould of roquefort, put it in the caves, and
> leave it there long enough, the cheese becomes "infected" naturally. This
> makes for a far more subtly flavoured cheese. I've only ever had it a
> couple of times, and it was as much better than standard Société, as Yquem
> is better than your local "casino" sauternes.
>
> However, such a cheese is extremely rare, and Roquefort Cave des
> Baragnaudes or Papillon black label are also pretty yummy too.
>
There's certainly no comparison (as you say) between the Societe
(great, accents don't work either!) and Papillon. I've actually
only ever seen the black, so there you are.
Still, and not to split too many hairs, it sounds as if your
point is (by analogy) the the only real cantal is a salers! :)
That being said I'll keep my eyes open for the naturally aged
stuff.
>
>>(First post here with Mozilla, jeez is it possible there's no
>>spell check?! :()
>
>
> With Mozilla, anything is possible. That said, I _have_ a spell checker in
> Agent, but never use it. (In case anyone was in any doubt).
>
Thanks, Mark for the OT post. Mozilla is sooo slow that I've
pretty much given up on it for browsing and (laboriously) installed
Galeon, which seems not to bad. But it appears that for a GUI mail
and news, I'm stuck otherwise. I'll check out the spell download,
anyway.
-E
--
Emery Davis
Emery Davis
> Papillon black is the one sold to specialist cheesemongers, whereas
> the red is intended for supermarkets. Somehow finding ou that the
> Farine family that owns Papillon supports the Front National has made
> me less enthusiastic about Papillon black...
>
None the less I'm glad to know it, although as you say it certainly
dims one's ardor... You're sure about this? Seems like quite a
personal bit of info to have, and not one I'd like to spread about
if it was unfounded.
-E
--
Emery Davis
Mike Tommasi
wrote:
A very reliable friend that organized a tasting of Papillon and
Banyuls two years ago told me this. You know, in this field it is hard
to pin information down, I have no footnotes or citations or evidence,
and I cannot start an investigation on every suspected producer (there
are many Lepeniste winemakers, esp. in Burgundy...). In the same way
then, I do not forbid myself from buying Papillon, I just try to avoid
it, but I still buy some every now and then because it is good. Should
one stop reading Pound or Heidegger because they had rotten politics?
Do I stop looking at great paintings, simply because the artist was/is
a fascist and/or an arsehole? Hard questions to answer.
Mike
Josh Passell
mi...@tommasi.org claimed:
> (there are many Lepeniste winemakers, esp. in Burgundy...).
So Algerian wine is fine, but not Algerians themselves?
Mark Lipton
Emery Davis wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mark for the OT post. Mozilla is sooo slow that I've
> pretty much given up on it for browsing and (laboriously) installed
> Galeon, which seems not to bad. But it appears that for a GUI mail
> and news, I'm stuck otherwise. I'll check out the spell download,
> anyway.
NP, Emery. For that same reason, I use Netscape 4.7x for my Macs and employ
Mozilla only for certain Websites that need a smarter browser. As much as I try
to support Open Source software projects, some times it's just too much
trouble...
Mark Lipton
Mike Tommasi
wrote:
Huh?
Look, my post did not make a lot of sense maybe, but I dont understand
your comment at all. We are talking about specific individuals that
may espouse some really horribly nasty politics, and how this does not
exclude the possibility that this not-so-nice person may produce great
stuff, be it wine, cheese or poetry. It may be great stuff, but it is
hard to swallow.
Mike
Josh Passell
mi...@tommasi.org claimed:
>>> (there are many Lepeniste winemakers, esp. in Burgundy...).
>>
>> So Algerian wine is fine, but not Algerians themselves?
>
> Huh?
>
> Look, my post did not make a lot of sense maybe, but I dont understand
> your comment at all. We are talking about specific individuals that
> may espouse some really horribly nasty politics, and how this does not
> exclude the possibility that this not-so-nice person may produce great
> stuff, be it wine, cheese or poetry. It may be great stuff, but it is
> hard to swallow.
>
> Mike
Mike, this is Josh here. Hello? Not to be taken seriously. I was making a
joke combining suspect practices in Burgundy and neo-Fascist politics. A
bit of a stretch, I grant you, but I liked it.
Josh
Mark Lipton
Thanks for your views. Between your and Mike's impressions, I have
a fairly clear idea of what the wines were like. I understand your
reticence to judge the Condrieu, but I have been fascinated by the
concept since Mike first mentioned it here in afw last year. I just
will have to find some of Gaillard's Condrieu some time to see for
myself. And BTW, congratulations on "sniffing" out a corked wine
unaided!! I shudder to think of how thoroughly corked it must have been,
or perhaps you're more sensitive to cork taint in the context of a sweet
wine than you would otherwise be. We'll have to conduct a controlled
experiment some time to investigate: present Ian with 30 corked wines,
spanning the spectrum from Beaujolais Nouveau to Tokaji Eszencia to DRC
Richebourg to Ch. Latour and see in which of them the cork taint is
obvious and in which it isn't. I'll then write up the results and
submit them to the Journal of Organoleptic Research...
*grumble* back to reviewing a boooooring chemistry article... :(
Mark Lipton
Matthew Mitchell
"Anders Tørneskog" <atorn...@c2i.net> wrote:
>It's Saturday, the 26th of October 2002
I also had a Chilean cab. The name escapes me--it was in the realm of
ordinary, but decent wines. Tasted it in the shop (Frank's, Wilmington
Delaware) in 1999 (IIRC) with our monthly group. Liked the degree of
extraction and structure, but concluded it needed at least two years in
bottle before being ready, so I bought a bottle and wrote on the price
sticker "two years." Wasn't memorable, otherwise I would have made note of
the maker and bought more. But it was a perfectly good way to enjoy a
strip steak (larger than the rather small steaks we usually cook) after a
long work week and a rainy day in with the kids.
Tonight I had cocktails with dinner (the Friday night martini, this time
times two), so my most recent wine was the remains of a leftover mag of
DuBoeuf cabernet (Domaine St. Louis 2000, IIRC). It was leftover from a
Tuesday reception for clients at the training workshop that was the cause
of all that work. Both the workshop and the reception were a success--and
the wine selections were icing on the cake. Carefully chosen and
interesting wines made a real good impression on both the clients and my
boss, and are probably worth relating here.
The real hit was a bottle (actually several) of Symphony (the Davis hybrid:
Coyote Creek 2000) which I bought not only as something unique, but also to
make sure we had something on the off-dry side, which you need in
organizing an event for folks who are not necessarily wine mavens. Our
biggest client found it just to her liking and had good things to say about
us the whole time. And though I hadn't thought of it when I bought it, it
also was perfect for my colleague who was organizing the conference
logistics (I did the curriculum). Said woman is about six months pregnant
and not drinking wine, so I poured a little bit in a glass so she could
just savor the aroma (Symphony is a cross of orange muscat [huge bouquet]
with white grenache) and she enjoyed it just as much as those who drank it.
Meanwhile, the Vidal Fleury white CDR I bought (great stuff) had oiled
another potential client well enough that the VP was able to land a big
contract with his agency at the speakers' dinner.
Amazing what kind of return you get on bumping the wine budget up to $7.00
a bottle and serving it with enthusiasm...
Mike Tommasi
wrote:
>in article 00p5sus5j8o4vdff2...@4ax.com, Mike Tommasi at
Alright, but help me out, put the smileys in next time... even if you
do have a good AFW pedigree.
Cheers
Mike
Michael Pronay
> There's certainly no comparison (as you say) between the Societe
> (great, accents don't work either!) ...
There is a very useful little program from the Netherlands,
"AllChars for Windows", (if you happen to use Windows) for free
download at <http://allchars.zwolnet.com> which perfectly and
easily handles all these accents, special characters etc.
M.
Emery Davis
> A very reliable friend that organized a tasting of Papillon and
> Banyuls two years ago told me this. You know, in this field it is hard
> to pin information down, I have no footnotes or citations or evidence,
> and I cannot start an investigation on every suspected producer (there
> are many Lepeniste winemakers, esp. in Burgundy...). In the same way
> then, I do not forbid myself from buying Papillon, I just try to avoid
> it, but I still buy some every now and then because it is good. Should
> one stop reading Pound or Heidegger because they had rotten politics?
> Do I stop looking at great paintings, simply because the artist was/is
> a fascist and/or an arsehole? Hard questions to answer.
>
> Mike
Understood. (Your post makes perfect sense, BTW :)) In the same
way I have problems with Wagner but enjoy it none the less. Yes,
the FN is rampant in many areas, but certainly has a stronghold in
agriculture. I just want to be careful bandying someone's reputation;
as I have it now (from you) third hand I'll refrain from doing so even
though it personally gives me second thoughts.
-E
--
Emery Davis
Emery Davis
Thanks for the tip, Michael, but I am windows allergic. Hopefully
I'll figure out the configuration, or will switch mailers (again).
-E
--
Emery Davis
Michael Pronay
> Thanks for the tip, Michael, but I am windows allergic.
I can *very well* understand that!
M.
Ian Hoare
Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:20:29 +0100, you said -
>correct, Roquefort does not involve pressing or cooking.
Thanks.
>Actually, I believe that traditional roquefort was made with corsican
>brocciu brought to the caves in Roquefort.
REALLY? That's interesting. Certainly to hear local people talk you get the
impression that there was something dishonest about it.
>>However, such a cheese is extremely rare, and Roquefort Cave des
>>Baragnaudes or Papillon black label are also pretty yummy too.
I should have said "Société cave des Baragnaudes", of course.
>Papillon black is the one sold to specialist cheesemongers,
That's what I thought, but in a recent conversation on frbv, Patrick Laget
said that he found it easily in supermarkets.
> Somehow finding ou that the Farine family that owns Papillon supports the Front National has made
>me less enthusiastic about Papillon black...
Just as well they don't do a "brown shirt" gogonzola! ;-))
(Adding smiley rapidly, in view of your conversation with Josh!)
I agree. I was deeply shocked when I discovered that the local chairman of
the FN in Burgundy was a wine making luminary (now retired). I CAN
understand how racism can develop, born come out of fear and in response to
hatred and ghettos, but Burgundy isn't like that nor, for that matter, is
St Affrique and Roquefort. This is off topic, and please folks let's not
turn this NG into alt.soc. However, when the overall vote for the FN in the
first round of the Presidential Elections was of the order of 20%, you can
_expect_ one company director in 5 to be a supporter.
Actually, I would nuance what you said. If Mr D**** or Mrs D**** or whoever
were revealed as members of the inner committee of the FN in Alsace or
Bordeaux, it would NOT make me less enthusiastic about their wines. The
wine is the wine, and the political lunacy of the maker doesn't change
that. _HOWEVER_ I'd not want to buy it, no matter how good it was. Which is
what I guess you meant.
>Ian, remember the not-inoculated gorgonzola you tasted at aperitif
>last sunday night? Accompanied the Layon quite well.
Yup, that's the sort of thing I mean.
>As for the oysters, I was not convinced...
Despite what Michael Pronay says about it being a classic match? I have to
say that as I'm not really over keen on raw oysters wriggling their way
down my oesophagus, I was more oncentrating on persauding myself to like
THEM than the match which I found inoffensive. I DO agree that the Pithon
would have been a better match.
Ian Hoare
01 Nov 2002 15:34:06 GMT, you said:-
>The Yquem event was arranged by Albert Givton, who had amassed all of the
>vintages of Yquem over the years.
goodness gracious me... I imagined that the wines were a sort of combined
effort.
>Nevertheless, Albert told me it was probably the most difficult food matching
>task he has ever undertaken, and much testing went on, using lesser Sauternes
>with various food candidates, before the final menu was established.
It's not easy, that's certain. which makes Henri Gagneux's effort that much
more remarkable.
> last time we had 20 year old Ch. Grillet - try and nail that one blind!
As it happens... we were invited to a dinner near Boston, whose cooking I
was to be involved in. With some stuffed shiitake mushrooms that I had to
make, we were served some elderly Ch Grillet. I am afraid I don't remember
the year (didn't take notes), though I felt strongly that it was badly OTT.
Roger Conant
news:10362399...@teheran.magic.fr...
> Mike Tommasi wrote:[]
> In the same way
> > then, I do not forbid myself from buying Papillon, I just try to avoid
> > it, but I still buy some every now and then because it is good. Should
> > one stop reading Pound or Heidegger because they had rotten politics?
> > Do I stop looking at great paintings, simply because the artist was/is
> > a fascist and/or an arsehole? Hard questions to answer.
> >
> > Mike
>
> Understood. (Your post makes perfect sense, BTW :)) In the same
> way I have problems with Wagner but enjoy it none the less.
Reminds me of the episode of HBO's Curb Your Enthusiasm - Larry David was
whistling Wagner on the sidewalk, and another Jew accuses him of being
anti-Semitic! He just happened to like Wagner anyway. Wagner was Hitler's
favorite composer for the history-challenged.
Bill Spohn
>would have been a better match.
Would that be braised anaconda, or fricaseed?
Mike Tommasi
<ianhoare...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>Hi Mike,
>
> Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:20:29 +0100, you said -
>
>>Actually, I believe that traditional roquefort was made with corsican
>>brocciu brought to the caves in Roquefort.
>
>REALLY? That's interesting. Certainly to hear local people talk you get the
>impression that there was something dishonest about it.
>
OK, here's the quote, from the Larousse Gastronomique (I knew I had
read this somewhere...):
"The true Roquefort cheese, made in the little town of that name in
the Ste Affrique district (Aveyron), is manufactured exclusively from
ewe's milk, sheep beng the only animals which can subsist on the arid
pastures of the Causses. Corsica exports a large number of cheeses to
the Causses to be 'treated' in the caves there."
Ian, we just got back from Eric Sapet's restaurant where he had a
"Slow" lunch featuring six of the 14 dishes we had in Turin (3 with
champagne Boulard, 3 with reds by Dupere Barrera). It was truly
wonderful, most dishes were adapted to his style and the weather was
so good we had lunch outside on the terrace...
Cheers
Mike
Ken Blake
wrote:
Here's another vote for Allchars. I've used it for several years,
and find it very handy.
--
Ken Blake
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