healthy wine drinkers...
Erik Hornung
sipping a glass of Masi Vallipociella (sp?) and I came to a realization. I
was thinking of all the people I knew who enjoyed wine, on a regular
basis...mostly older family members or the parents of my closer friends.
However i'm not thinking of friends, because they're mostly all still
youthful like me at the age of 23...so they dont pertain to this
realization, that i'm about to come to. This realization being, they're
all in outstanding health! Two parents of friends, one 75 and the other 60
something are both marathon runners, my father and avid wine-o has never
had high cholesterol and is in excellent shape, and several other people
come to mind...
Is there any correlation between wine drinkers and optimum, or exceedingly
good health? Is it that avid wine lovers live a certain kind of lifestyle?
However several of these people i thought about all live different
lifestyles....
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Erik
P.S. I apologize for all the typos, grammar errors and grade 6 writing
level. It's the 'pocella...
Tom S
"Erik Hornung" <ehornu...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:B3OJb.74226$6b2.9455@edtnps84...
> I've been laying on the couch listening to a new Charlie Parker CD and
I certainly hope your epiphany re wine consumption is correct. In fact,
I'll _drink_ to that! :^D
S moT
iggy17ren
I think those people who really make the effort to properly enjoy something
like wine (and food too) also care about other important things to life such
as proper health and education. Just as a trend and not as a general rule.
I'm 25 and very healthy.
Xyzsch
>sipping a glass of Masi Vallipociella (sp?) and I came to a realization. I
>was thinking of all the people I
>knew who enjoyed wine, on a regular
>basis...mostly older family members or the parents of my closer friends.
<snip discussion of healthy wine drinking relatives>
>Is there any correlation between wine drinkers and optimum, or exceedingly
>good health? Is it that avid wine lovers live a certain kind of lifestyle?
>However several of these people i thought about all live different
>lifestyles....
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Cheers,
>Erik
Erik
There has been a lot of reserarch on wine drinking and good health. Research
suggests that moderate drinkers have lower rates of heart disease than non
drinkers and heavy drinkers. Moreover, some research suggests that red wine is
more heart healthy than other alcoholic beverages. But this latter result may
reflect the healthier lifestyles of wine drinkers vs. drinkers of hard liquor,
an issue you raise in your post.
If you go a google search of this group, you can read past discussions of this
issue (there are many). The Wine Spectator website also has many articles on
recent research on wine and health.
Tom Schellberg
Aria
Would be difficult to isolate other aspects of life-style.
"Xyzsch" <xyz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040105002419...@mb-m10.aol.com...
Mark Lipton
Aria wrote:
> I believe that there are too many variables to give a definitive response.
> Would be difficult to isolate other aspects of life-style.
Of course. One factor often overlooked is the correlation between income and
wine consumption and the similar correlation between income and health.
Unless one does a carefully controlled, double blind study, little can be
concluded. However, there have now been almost a dozen such studies carried
out worldwide over the past decade with the following conclusions:
1) moderate alcohol consumption is associated with lower rates of heart disease
and certain forms of cancer
2) red wine offers more health benefits than white wine or other forms of
alcohol
3) part of the health benefits can be attributed to certain phytochemicals
(quercetin and resveratrol in particular) that are found in abundance in red
wine, but there are other, yet unidentified factors, that also contribute to
its health benefits
4) diet, excercise and genetics make far more difference to one's health than a
glass of red wine will -- there is no substitute for a healthy lifestyle
HTH
Mark Lipton
Xyzsch
How much better is wine than grape juice?
Welch's has bought off a popular radio announcer (whose name escapes me at the
moment) to entoll the virtues of (god awful, my opinion) Concord grape juice.
The claim is the American Heart Assn. has certified it as being healthy for
your heart.
I'll bet thst the American Heart Assn. does not want to advertise the health
benefits of red wine, as it is too much of a political football.
Have any studies compared the benefits of red wine with red grape juice?
Tom Schellberg
Mark Lipton
There was a very provactive paper in Science last year that compared
the in vitro (in the test tube) ability of various beverages to affect
one protein implicated in carcinogenesis. In that experiment, red wine
was found to be markedly superior to white wine and unfermented grape
juice to have no effect at all. Interestingly, they also found that
all red wines were not equal, with the more tannic, full-bodied reds
proving to be the most effective. Overall, it seems that while grape
juice contains some of the important phytochemicals, the presence of
alcohol and other fermentation products is needed, too.
Mark Lipton
Roman Caesar
I think the overall point is that resveratrol mimics
caloric restriction. Caloric restriction is well-known
and has been studied for decades and definitely prolongs
life in most/all living organisms that have Sirtuins
that I have heard of. They even bred one without Sirtuins
and caloric restriction failed to extend life. This is
most definitely one of the major longevity gene/enzymes
that's been discovered. No question about it. That
Harvard and BioMol could pair it with Caloric restriction
is good research.
Therefore, the point is not that red wine is drunk by
rich people and rich people live longer anyway so it
won't help them (why would you think it wouldn't?).
The point is that it mimics caloric restriction which
has been investigated ad nauseum and does what it does
to prolong life, demonstrably.
My chief beef is that wine during the work week in the
evenings just doesn't wash. It creates minor and major
headaches and if you buy organic wine instead that doesn't
cause as much of a headache you're still dealing with
alcohol before bedtime which has bad effects on the
soundness of sleep. I find that I have to imbibe
around lunchtime on weekends (cant do that during the
workweek) and it invariably makes me take a weekend
nap (remember alcohol causes awakenings but may help
you get to sleep and not stay asleep.)
So a pill is definitely needed and I think that
www.longevinex.com has that pill. (Btw, I get no
financial gain and am not associated with the firm.)
There is definitely a Nobel prize lurking in this research
by Harvard/BioMol and others which I expect to be given out
in the next few decades.
Mark Lipton <lip...@purdue.edu> wrote in message news:<3FFAEA03...@purdue.edu>...
Bob
There are so many studies, there are studies of the studies.
Bottom line though is Resveratrol and its high concentration in Pinot
Noir, which is the wine type producing the resveratrol used in almost
all of the studies of it.
As one poster points out - Resveratrol mimics a restricted calorie diet
which is one of the things proven to extend life. However, moderation
is again called for and the time to consume the wine is important also.
The regimen calls for 2 (2-4 oz) glasses of Pinot Noir for men and 1
glass for women. It also works best if consumed with the evening meal.
Grape juice is on the list of things that contain Resveratrol but the
amount is almost negligible compared to Pinot Noir. The closest wine to
Pinot Noir in resveratrol, if I remember correctly, is burgundy and it
contains a fraction of the resveratrol that Pinot Noir does.
Fill the glass and let's start eating,
Bob
--
In times of change, there is no incentive so great, and no
medicine so powerful as hope for a better tomorrow.
Anders Tørneskog
"Bob" <skyb...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3FFC574D...@pobox.com...
> ... The closest wine to
> Pinot Noir in resveratrol, if I remember correctly, is burgundy and it
> contains a fraction of the resveratrol that Pinot Noir does.
>
???
FYI - Red Burgundy *is* Pinot Noir, exclusively...
Anders
Roman Caesar
prior to trying to fall asleep. I would recommend a vigorous
workout earlier in the day to ensure the person is physically
tired enough to really sleep, because that much wine will help
you fall asleep but make for a fairly shallow sleep in most
people.
Bob <skyb...@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<3FFC574D...@pobox.com>...
Erik Hornung
> My chief beef is that wine during the work week in the
> evenings just doesn't wash. It creates minor and major
> headaches and if you buy organic wine instead that doesn't
> cause as much of a headache you're still dealing with
> alcohol before bedtime which has bad effects on the
> soundness of sleep. I find that I have to imbibe
> around lunchtime on weekends (cant do that during the
> workweek) and it invariably makes me take a weekend
> nap (remember alcohol causes awakenings but may help
> you get to sleep and not stay asleep.)
I think this really depends how much wine you consume before bedtime, and
especially how much. One glass, I think for most people wont even feel the
effects of the alcohol. I never have more the one glass with my dinner at
6ish, and im in bed by 10ish. However, this is me...i know it's probably
different for other people. Also, i've never suffered from headaches by
drinking red wine, but I do have a pal who does get bad headaches after
drinking red....
Erik
Erik Hornung
I have no idea why, but i've never tried Pinot Noir...I guess I know what
i'll be picking up from the liquor store on the way home from the gym.
Erik
"Bob" <skyb...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3FFC574D...@pobox.com...
Dan Richter
mins prior to your evening meal, each day.
My own experience (and that of my family) is that a glass or two before or
during supper does lower bad cholesterol within 7 days.
I'll drink to that!
Dan
"Erik Hornung" <ehornu...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:X90Lb.47452$Dm.29142@edtnps89...
Mark Lipton
Roman Caesar wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I think the overall point is that resveratrol mimics
> caloric restriction. Caloric restriction is well-known
> and has been studied for decades and definitely prolongs
> life in most/all living organisms that have Sirtuins
> that I have heard of. They even bred one without Sirtuins
> and caloric restriction failed to extend life. This is
> most definitely one of the major longevity gene/enzymes
> that's been discovered. No question about it. That
> Harvard and BioMol could pair it with Caloric restriction
> is good research.
True, but be careful in equating the overall health benefits of
resveratrol (and even
more, red wine) to its activation of sirtuins alone. Resveratrol has
also been shown to
inhibit the activity of the transcription factor NF-kappa-B and to
inhibit the enzyme
endothelin-1. It may be that sirtuins are an "upstream" controller of multiple
biochemical pathways, but that remains to be demonstrated.
Additionally, there is ample
evidence to suggest that the health benefits accorded red wine are not
due to resveratrol
*alone*. As I previously said, the flavonol quercetin, also found in
wine, has been
shown to have its own fair share of beneficial health effects and there
is reason to
believe that wine may contain yet more small molecules that impart
health benefits. Even
alcohol has been found to impart some health benefits, though there are
certainly adverse
health effects also attributable to it. As I said before, it's a
complex issue.
Mark Lipton
Erik Hornung
kidding...didn't know after my original post that i'd be reading all this
scientific information...head hurts.
Maybe my dad is right. Everything seems to cause cancer, and everything
seems to prevent cancer.
Erik
"Mark Lipton" <lip...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:3FFCA75E...@purdue.edu...
Roman Caesar
No question about it. I still drink 2 glasses of red wine each day of
the weekend; but I can't do that during the weekday because of the
social unacceptability at work. Taking a sealed flask of 4 oz's
mid-day would simply not fit in. This isn't Europe. It's prudish
America.
So for me, a resveratrol/quercetin combination pill would be great,
but only if the pill were properly made. Non-sealed gelcaps with
transparent skins are useless as are the manufacturing methods of
most resveratrol pill makers.
I actually think www.longevinex.com has the right approach for
how to make the Resveratrol pill. I'd be more than willing to take
one of those daily M-F, take a couple glasses a day of Pinot Noir
on the weekend, and supplement slightly on the weekdays in the
evenings with 2-3 oz's of my favorite red (which isn't Pinot Noir
and happens to be Merlot.)
Roman Caesar
> British health and fitness guru, Ranulph Fiennes, advocates 1 glass about 30
> mins prior to your evening meal, each day.
>
> My own experience (and that of my family) is that a glass or two before or
> during supper does lower bad cholesterol within 7 days.
>
> I'll drink to that!
> Dan
> "Erik Hornung" <ehornu...@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:X90Lb.47452$Dm.29142@edtnps89...
> > 2 Glasses!?!? Yeah! I like the sounds of that!
> >
> > I have no idea why, but i've never tried Pinot Noir...I guess I know what
> > i'll be picking up from the liquor store on the way home from the gym.
> >
Pinot Noir is a fairly tricky grape according to most growers. The
low-end bottles tend to be more costly from the northerly Pinot
Noir growers as far as my suppliers are concerned.
It certainly doesn't have the mellowness of a Merlot but I suppose
one could sacriligously mix a half of Merlot with a half of Pinot Noir!
Xyzsch
> There was a very provactive paper in Science last year that compared
>the in vitro (in the test tube) ability of various beverages to affect
>one protein implicated in carcinogenesis. In that experiment, red wine
>was found to be markedly superior to white wine and unfermented
>grape
>juice to have no effect at all. Interestingly, they also found that
>all red wines were not equal, with the more tannic, full-bodied red
>juice contains some of the important phytochemicals, the presence of
>alcohol and other fermentation products is needed, too.
>Mark Lipton
Thanks for the info Mark. Certainly some of the talk we have had on this
discussion is a bit misleading, from the absolute inane "Burgundy contains
little Pinot Noir" to the insinuation that Pinot Noir is the red wine
associated with resverterol. I suspect it has somewhat greater amounts than
Cab. Sauv. and Zin, but not enough to discount the value of these latter
varieties. Moreover, your quoted reserarch suggests that the more tannic reds
(eg Cab. Sauv) are more effective cancer fighters.
Just drink a varierty of red wines (Cab Sauv, Merlot, Syran, Pinot Noir...your
choice) and you probably get the desired benefits.
I know I do fine if I do not mix red wine and sharp cheese, and I take calcium
and magnesium.
Tom Schellberg
Xyzsch
>one could sacriligously mix a half of Merlot with a half of Pinot Noir!
Your kidding, of course. What Merlot have you been drinking? Most of the stuff
I've had is coarse and bitter. Pinot Noir is usually less tannic and more fruit
foreward. Unfortunately, many of them are made in a modern overoaked style.
Tom Schellberg
Bob
Expert I'm not when it comes to knowing wine. I just started drinking
it three months ago on my doctor's advice. Now if I could just get her
to write a prescription for it, it would be tax deductible as a medical
expense. Now THAT would be something to help me stay healthy.
Thanks for educating me - because I didn't have a clue,
Bob
--
Ian Hoare
le/on 8 Jan 2004 09:58:13 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>"Dan Richter" <Danri...@cablerocket.com> wrote in message news:<3ffcaebb$0$32587$2c56...@news.cablerocket.com>...
>> British health and fitness guru, Ranulph Fiennes, advocates 1 glass about 30
>> mins prior to your evening meal, each day.
>>
>> My own experience (and that of my family) is that a glass or two before or
>> during supper does lower bad cholesterol within 7 days.
>>
>> I'll drink to that!
>> Dan
>> "Erik Hornung" <ehornu...@telus.net> wrote in message
>> news:X90Lb.47452$Dm.29142@edtnps89...
>> > 2 Glasses!?!? Yeah! I like the sounds of that!
>> >
>> > I have no idea why, but i've never tried Pinot Noir...I guess I know what
>> > i'll be picking up from the liquor store on the way home from the gym.
>> >
>
>Pinot Noir is a fairly tricky grape according to most growers.
>It certainly doesn't have the mellowness of a Merlot but I suppose
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!
Try two classic wines. Say a Vogué Le Musigny 1996 against a Ch
Petit-Villages from the same year. Then you can talk mellow and tannic.
Jeepers. PLEASE try to stop generalising from the USA to the world.
Wine ISN'T medecine, it's about pleasure, any medical benefits are
serendipity.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.
Ian Hoare
le/on Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:58:52 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
Bourgogne Passetoutgrains?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Tom S
> Just drink a varierty of red wines (Cab Sauv, Merlot, Syran, Pinot
Noir...your
> choice) and you probably get the desired benefits.
So _that's_ what the FDA means by a balanced diet!
And I thought it meant one glass in each hand... ;^D
S moT
Anders Tørneskog
"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:64vsvv8oktp868aui...@4ax.com...
> Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,
>
> >FYI - Red Burgundy *is* Pinot Noir, exclusively...
>
> Bourgogne Passetoutgrains?
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
>
FYI - Exclusive Red Burgundy *is* Pinot Noir, exclusively..., I think
:-) Anders
RV WRLee
>Petit-Villages from the same year. Then you can talk mellow and tannic.
>
>Jeepers. PLEASE try to stop generalising from the USA to the world.
>
>Wine ISN'T medecine, it's about pleasure, any medical benefits are
>serendipity.
>--
>All the Best
>Ian Hoare
As usual you have hit home with my sentiments exactly Ian.
Bi!!
Stuart Cracraft
It is both and to increasing numbers of people they will be
drawn into wine-drinking because of the resveratrol unless
a good supplement is created (it doesn't exist yet -- all
are bio-unavailable based on testing except for one.)
I have always liked red wine but now drink more of it because
of what I know and I drink exclusively Pinot Noir from,
you guessed it, either Willamette Valley, Oregon, or parts
of Washington State, or New York Finger Lakes Region, or
Burgandy, France, or Southern Tasmania, Australia -- the
cold places where the fungus can attack the grape and force
Resveratrol to be manufactured.
I am also prepared to see exactly if there is any effect
as I am having major blood tests and a full body scan (possibly)
done a year apart, before starting Resveratrol, and after the
year, to see what the effect truly is or isn't.
Stuart
bwesley7
no one has mentioned wine as a component of specific diet programs.
Last fall, at the age of 54, my weight had crept up to 250 lbs with no end
in sight. I'd never tried a specific "diet" -- other than eating whatever
was set in front of me -- but had often heard/read about how tough it was to
lose weight. My wife decided we should both try the Atkins diet; we checked
with our family doctor, who endorsed the idea, before beginning. I was a
bit concerned that the diet forbids any alcohol consumption during the first
(Induction) phase, which lasts at least two weeks, and is very cautionary
about drinking, period. I enjoy at least 1-2 glasses of wine each evening,
but was willing to forego that pleasure for a brief period. To quote from
"Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution," pg. 181:
"The body burns alcohol for fuel when alcohol is available. So when it is
burning alcohol, your body will not burn fat. This does not stop weight
loss; it simply postpones it. Since the alcohol does not get stored as
glycogen, you immediately get back into lipolysis after the alcohol is used
up."
After completing Induction, I gradually resumed my wine drinking, getting
back now to normal levels. Did the diet work? Yes -- when I started the
diet in early September 2003, my weight was 250 lbs, and my total
cholesterol was 245. As of January 5, 2004, my weight was down to 205 lbs
(my target is 200 lbs) and my cholesterol is down to 166. More importantly,
my dietary habits have changed significantly -- but I still enjoy the same
variety and volume of wine as before!
Bart
"Stuart Cracraft" <crac...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:9e4b6b89.04011...@posting.google.com...