Atlantic Shad good for sashimi?
Jeffrey Barker
recently moved back to the East coast, and (cooked) shad and shad roe
is a seasonal delicacy in the late winter and early spring.
Shad live in the ocean, but come to fresh water to spawn, which is
where my problem starts. Normally, I woulndn't have a problem eating
any fresh saltwater fish as sashimi. But because of the spawning
cycle (similar to salmon, which has several warnings attached to it
[flash frozen, etc]), I have been a little cautious about eating it as
sashimi or maki.
I have seen "gizzard shad" on some sushi menus, which is NOT the same
species; this is American shad, which is apparently different.
It's strong-flavored, it's on the oily side, but it's nice. The roe
is also very sought-after, and I thought that the shad as sashimi and
also a maki with the shad and cooked roe would be excellent. The only
problem is that I've never seen it offered raw, and the fact that it
is "partially freshwater" (I forget the official term for that) makes
me a bit nervous. Its flavor is very similar to sturgeon or herring,
if that helps anyone identify it.
Has anyone had totally raw American east coast shad? If so, let me
know so I can make some, I think it would be great.
Jeffrey
Dan Logcher
> Okay. I've been eating and making sushi for a long time. I've
> recently moved back to the East coast, and (cooked) shad and shad roe
> is a seasonal delicacy in the late winter and early spring.
>
> Shad live in the ocean, but come to fresh water to spawn, which is
> where my problem starts. Normally, I woulndn't have a problem eating
> any fresh saltwater fish as sashimi. But because of the spawning
> cycle (similar to salmon, which has several warnings attached to it
> [flash frozen, etc]), I have been a little cautious about eating it as
> sashimi or maki.
Striped bass do the same thing, and I've eaten them as sushi. I haven't
found any parasites yet. I usually go thru the organs to see if there is
anything unusual. Course for smaller fish it might be hard do do.
> I have seen "gizzard shad" on some sushi menus, which is NOT the same
> species; this is American shad, which is apparently different.
These are usually pickled, similar to saba.. Kohada. You should check on
the spawning cycle of Gizzard Shad to see if they are similar.
> It's strong-flavored, it's on the oily side, but it's nice. The roe
> is also very sought-after, and I thought that the shad as sashimi and
> also a maki with the shad and cooked roe would be excellent. The only
> problem is that I've never seen it offered raw, and the fact that it
> is "partially freshwater" (I forget the official term for that) makes
> me a bit nervous. Its flavor is very similar to sturgeon or herring,
> if that helps anyone identify it.
Sounds like mackerel, or Herring.
> Has anyone had totally raw American east coast shad? If so, let me
> know so I can make some, I think it would be great.
Where do you fish for these? I fish the Gloucester area during the
Spring - Fall.
--
Dan
Steve Ripple
so as far as sashimi is concerned you are experimenting here. Other
fish in the same family are used as sushi mostly after marinating in
vinegar and salt. Some of them are used as sashimi (raw) too, but
these are not the ones that breed in freshwater.
I salt salmon when I use it uncooked. Many sushi chefs have told me
that's what they do as well and so the salmon is rarely completely raw.
Salting in a brine for a couple days improves the texture and flavor,
while still keeping the raw character. I'd recommend you try that
with the shad. One of the references I checked h showed that shad
have many parasites - but I saw none that would also infect humans,
but beware. I'd probably try the marinating in vinegar and salt for a
few days, that should kill any worm-like parasites.
Here's a description for gizzard shad, a different species than
American shad.
Gizzard Shad
Charactor
Konoshiro live near the shore and are ccasionally found in fresh waters.
Its breeding season is April to May? at which time it pushes out into
the sea to lay its floating eggs after sunset. Its skin has a metal-
like luster to it and the scales come off easily. It has a few
different Japanese names depending on its size. It's called "Shinko"
or "Tsunashi" when it's 10 cm long or less? "Kohada" when it's around
15 cm long? and adults are called "Konoshiro." In the Edo era?
Samurai didn't eat this fish because "Konoshiro" sounds exactly like
"this castle". Thus? if someone said?"Let's eat Konoshiro" it could
be mistaken as meaning "Let's eat this castle". It's very popular
for sushi. While marinating the fillet with vinegar is best? eating
it grilled or as sashimi isn't bad either. Distribution?Niigata
prefecture/south of Sendai? Korean peninsula? Taiwan? northern part
of South China Sea
Size?25cm
Fishing Method?Fishing
How To Cook?Sushi? marinated with vinegar
--Remove woof to email directly
Lost
sushi, but about your own fish preparation. Perhaps you've some links on
the proper technique for filleting and checking your fish for parasites and
whatnot? Many thanks.
-Lost
Jeffrey Barker
haven't decided whether or not to try it, however. :) I'd thought of
brining it, but it seems to be a bit of a cop-out. I'm sure it will
still be good, but it will carry some of the brining qualities over.
I used to hunt wild mushrooms quite a bit, and the rule there is if
you're not 100% sure about it, don't eat it. So I'm a bit reluctant
to try something raw that is not done raw normally. All the evidence
seems to say that "this is probably fine." I'm sure that the worst
that can happen is some gastrointestinal upset, and I've had several
bouts of food poisoning in my life already, so I know it's
uncomfortable, but certainly not debilitating. At the very least, if
it IS poisonous to eat raw, at least I'll have a warning to post for
the rest of you. :)
Okay. Next time I'm making sushi, I'll get some shad ahead of time
and once we've all had enough Asahi to feel reckless I'll throw some
in.
In the meantime, if anyone knows anything positive or negative about
this, please post. And I'll certainly let you all know how it goes,
if I don't hear anything negative in the meantime. I think we're
going out for sushi on Monday, and I'll ask my chef again if he knows
anything about the shad here, then will probably make some on Tuesday,
if we have the nerve to try it.
Jeffrey
P.S. I know that a lot of people salt or cure salmon or use
flash-frozen, but I've always made mine at home with fresh, and have
never ever had the least hint of a problem. That gives me some hope.
I just really want to try this, it seems like it would be really nice,
espcecially since the roe is so good (cooked), a mixture of the raw
fish with the cooked roe seems like it would be really great.
Steve Ripple <Loki-d...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<Usenet.dldctdsj@localhost>...
Steve Ripple
too. But it was at it's best when I brined it for a couple days - Wild
Alaskan Salmon - It firmed up and had the rich fresh Salmon Flavor.
Really good.
I've never had Atlantic Shad or the roe, but I've heard raves about it.
I've heard that one way to prepare it is to cook it overnight, till
the bones melt. Completely the opposite of sashimi. I'd really like
to try it sometime. I guess it's also a fish that was on the decline
at one time in many areas and is now coming back. Good!
I wouldn't consider brining or pickling with vinegar as copping out -
it might just prove to be the best way for shad - taste and see.
Oh and it wouldn't be food poisoning I'd be worrying about - it would
be parasites. Freshwater fish are a no-no, unless raised in a
controlled environment. They can carry parasites that will actually
infest mammals, humans, included. Tapeworms, and liver flukes (really
nasty) are of great concern. As is Giardia, and many other protozoans.
Open sea fish don't really pose a problem because they are too far from
land to be a vector in a parasite's life cycle that would infect land
mammals - They may have fish-only parasites, but they won't affect us.
That's why Salmon are not recommended - but they really don't spend
very much time in fresh waters - in normal circumstances. And Halibut
and other near-land fish are also of some concern too. But I don't
worry much about it.
One of my favorites is striped bass - farm raised in freshwater to be
safe for sashimi/sushi in California. I actually think it's a hybrid
fish, and not a wild type striper. It's really fresh tasting with a
springy, yet yielding texture. Very nice, with a hint of butteryness
like Himachi (my #1 favorite).
--
Remove woof to email directly
shad
shad
I hope you have a chance to try it and post the results. I have of course
eaten cooked shad
as well as shad roe. Although one should never take the issue of parasites
lightly, comparison
to the other famous andronomous fish Salmon may not be right as I believe
the parasite has alot
to do with living in the same environment as seals, which obviously wouldn't
apply to shad.
BTW, although it is a general rule even in Japan that one does not use
freshwater fish becaue of possible parasitic infection, carp is prepared raw
as arai (raw but chilled in ice water),
and although not common even namazu (catfish) is known to be served as
sashimi.
It is true that shad is not a traditional sashimi (or sushi) ingredient but
you can rest assured
that the only reason is that the exact same fish does not exist in Japanese
or pacific waters.
While the closest fish used in sushi might be the kohada (konoshiro) which
is brined and pickled, this may have much to do with maintaining the
freshness of oily fishes such as
members of the herring family and mackeral family. As proof, in Japan, where
available fresh, mackeral is in fact eaten completely raw (unpickled) as
sashimi, and raw sardine (iwashi) is a not uncommon sushi ingredient.
So the really two thoughts come to mind when thinking of using American
(atlantic) Shad
for sashimi/sushi. Firstly I doubt you can reach of level of "freshness"
comfort unless you caught the fish yourself, and kept it properly iced until
you got home. Every whole shad I
have ever seen in a fish store had sunken bloodshot eyes and looked pretty
nasty to me.
Secondly, although I have no first hand experience, deboning the shad to the
extent that you
can use it for sashimi/sushi "may" be tough, although I have been told that
it is a piece of
cake for those who are experienced.
Anyway, I think this is one of the most intersting questions put to this
newsgroup.
If I could overcome the two concerns I'd probably try it myself.
Good luck!
Shad (yes..this is my nickname)
"Jeffrey Barker" <jeffrey...@home.com> wrote in message
news:78291b04.02020...@posting.google.com...
Jeffrey Barker
it tonight, the rice is cooling as I write this.
I'm doing some as nigiri, some as maki (with the cooked roe included),
and I've pickled a bit of it for gunkan.
It eases my mind to hear that makerels are indeed eaten raw in Japan;
I wasn't aware of that. In my research, it looks like fresh-water
parasites are very rare early in the season (the shad season just
started here) and the danger increases later when the fish have gone
further upstream and been exposed much longer.
The anadromous issue about the seals is new to me. I knew that fish
that come in to spawn were supposed to be more of a risk, but I'd
never heard of any relationship to seals. Please post more about
that, if you know more.
I'll try to post later tonight or tomorrow about how it turned out,
and if you never hear from me again, well, don't try it. :)
Jeffrey
"shad" <fi...@gill.net> wrote in message news:<obB78.28774$fI7.306...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>...
David Lutjen
news:78291b04.02020...@posting.google.com...
> It eases my mind to hear that makerels are indeed eaten raw in Japan;
> I wasn't aware of that.
Aji (horse mackerel) is one of my favorites especially when served within
minutes of being pulled from the live tank. Keep in mind, however, that
Japan is a "fresh" market; they have a long history of handling fish/seafood
intended for consumption raw.
Dan Logcher
Re: Atlantic Shad good for sashimi?
Date:
Wed, 06 Feb 2002 11:03:00 -0500
From:
Dan Logcher <dlog...@110.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.food.sushi
References:
1 , 2 , 3
Lost wrote:
I don;t have any links to share. All my experience I have learned from
sushi chefs
and the sushi course I took with Walter Rhee. As far as checking for
parasites from
freshly caught fish, I cut filets from the middle-upper back of the fish
away from the
belly. I use visual inspection to spot any impurities, and candle the
filet. I have not
found any parasites, but I have found bits of seaweed imbedded in the
flesh. I have
no idea how it got in there..
I talk to sushi chefs whenever possible and have watch the preparation
of one of my
fish from start to finish before I ever tried it myself. It's good to
know owners of sushi
bars, since you can get into the kitchen to watch the cleaning and
cutting.
Sorry for the delayed response. My dillweeded ISP, AT&T Broadband,
seems to
only keep a 1-2 day retention on this group. I read from free USENET
server from
work, since I can't get to AT&T.. and they have days, weeks of articles,
but you can't
post on most of them.
--
Dan
Dan Logcher
> Thanks to Shad (and to all others) for their input here. I'm trying
> it tonight, the rice is cooling as I write this.
Let us know how it goes, er went.
Walter Rhee may be able to answer the question about Atlantic Shad,
but I think he's busy as of late.
--
Dan
Dan Logcher
Jeffrey Barker
In case you've never tried it, cooked shad is very strong and somewhat
oily, but a great fish. Having it raw was quite a surpirse, as it was
extremely mild, surprisingly so, given its taste when cooked.
I ended up doing a shad/green onion gunkan, shad nigiri, a shad and
shad roe (the roe was cooked with garlic) maki, a brined shad and
cucumber maki, and a cooked shad with softshell maki for a more
squeamish friend. It was all excellent and, as mentioned,
surprisingly on the super mild side. For those of you who've never
had cooked shad, you would not believe the difference going from
cooked to raw. It's one of the most strongly-flavored fishes (when
cooked) I've had.
It was a great triumph with unknown (to me) raw sushi ingredients. I
thank you all for your input and support, and for giving me the balls
to go through with something this experimental. It's now been about
24 hours and I've noticed nothing unusual. I'll give it until
tomorrow night to make sure, but it appears that everything was a
tremendous success.
The flavor was not as exceptional as I thought it would be. Don't get
me wrong, it was good, but with shad's nature, I thought the raw stuff
would be much more distinctive. I enjoy really flavorful sushi and
sashimi, and this was not at all what I thought it would be. So given
the flavor of shad and the perceived possible risk of eating it raw, I
was expecting something supernatural, which didn't happen. It was
still good, but until I get a dozen people saying "oh yeah, raw shad
is fine" I probably won't be doing it again. If you want to, use this
as a testimonial to try it. But there's plenty of fish I enjoy that I
know is 99% safe that I'll do just to enjoy. If anyone out there
wants to experiment with something else, let me know and I'll do it
with you. I think I mentioned before, I used to hunt wild mushrooms,
and with those you just HAVE to be 100% sure, so I consider fish
experiments to be less of a risk. I've been a chef for a long time,
and love experimenting on myself and am willing to try anything, so
please let me know if anyone wants to try a joint researching /
experimenting experience. But for now, go ahead and try American
Shad, it worked for me. :)
Jeffrey
Dan Logcher
> Success!
>
> In case you've never tried it, cooked shad is very strong and somewhat
> oily, but a great fish. Having it raw was quite a surpirse, as it was
> extremely mild, surprisingly so, given its taste when cooked.
Where did you get the shad? Catch it yourself or from a vendor?
Which did you like better, raw shad or brined?
--
Dan
shad
I'm sorry that the flavor was not anything super-special. Out of curiosity,
where did you get such fresh shad? Catch it yourself? or are they caught
locally to you?
Shad
"Jeffrey Barker" <jeffrey...@home.com> wrote in message
news:78291b04.0202...@posting.google.com...
> Success!
>
> In case you've never tried it, cooked shad is very strong and somewhat
> oily, but a great fish. Having it raw was quite a surpirse, as it was
> extremely mild, surprisingly so, given its taste when cooked.
<snip>
Nona Myers
wrote:
>I ended up doing a shad/green onion gunkan,
What is gunkan?
Nona Shinagawa Myers
(another foodie and hapa)
Jeffrey Barker
here last weekend. I bought the fish from a local supplier, who
assured me it was caught the previous day, and I ate it the day after
that.
I enjoyed the raw better than the brined, but I used a quick brine, so
the flavor may have suffered in that test more than if I had used a
slower one (I really wanted to eat it all that night).
Jeffrey
"shad" <fi...@gill.net> wrote in message news:<sCA88.22468
$eD3.342...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>...
Trinker
Nona Myers wrote:
>
> On 6 Feb 2002 20:30:05 -0800, jeffrey...@home.com (Jeffrey Barker)
> wrote:
>
> >I ended up doing a shad/green onion gunkan,
>
> What is gunkan?
gunkan-maki. (gunboat-maki)
The way that they usually serve ikura, for instance. Take the
nigiri and wrap it with a piece of nori so it forms a well.
David Lutjen
> Although one should never take the issue of parasites
> lightly, comparison
> to the other famous andronomous fish Salmon may not be right as I believe
> the parasite has alot
> to do with living in the same environment as seals, which obviously
wouldn't
> apply to shad.
Shad and shad roe are not subject to parasites. Shad and shad roe are
subject to histamine and chemical contamination.
While on the subject of parasites, I dug one out of a cod filet yesterday
morning (all cod are subject to parasites). When I run into a worm in fish,
it simply reinforces the notion that people out there should not be
experimenting with fish on their own without doing a bit of research.
Unfortunately, your local sushi chef may not know any more about parasites
than you. Sushi chefs trained and licensed in Japan are the most
knowledgeable and as rare as fur on an octopus.
If you have questions about a particular fish, refer to FDA's Hazards &
Controls Guide: http://foodsafety.ifas.ufl.edu/sf/sf094.htm
Some have problems with the FDA. I don't always agree with some of the
stuff they come up with but this chart of hazards associated with
fish/seafood is not fluff and hyperbole . . . just facts.
Jeffrey Barker
> Shad and shad roe are not subject to parasites. Shad and shad roe are
> subject to histamine and chemical contamination.
>
> While on the subject of parasites, I dug one out of a cod filet yesterday
> morning (all cod are subject to parasites). When I run into a worm in fish,
> it simply reinforces the notion that people out there should not be
> experimenting with fish on their own without doing a bit of research.
> Unfortunately, your local sushi chef may not know any more about parasites
> than you. Sushi chefs trained and licensed in Japan are the most
> knowledgeable and as rare as fur on an octopus.
>
> If you have questions about a particular fish, refer to FDA's Hazards &
> Controls Guide: http://foodsafety.ifas.ufl.edu/sf/sf094.htm
>
> Some have problems with the FDA. I don't always agree with some of the
> stuff they come up with but this chart of hazards associated with
> fish/seafood is not fluff and hyperbole . . . just facts.
Nice site, thanks for the link and the info.
Nona Myers
wrote:
>
>gunkan-maki. (gunboat-maki)
Thanks for the info. Where did "kan" part come from?
glenn tsunekawa
"Nona Myers" wrote :
> >gunkan-maki. (gunboat-maki)
>
> Thanks for the info. Where did "kan" part come from?
Gunkan means gunboat in Japanese. The characters are broken down into "gun"
meaning troops or war and "kan," which means warship.
http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/S=48/fg=r/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=J&T=gunk
an&WC=none&fg=r&S=48
glenn
Trinker
Pronounced "goon-kahn", roughly, if one attempts to write it in
American English.
Nona
> meaning troops or war and "kan," which means warship.
>
English and Japanese words - something like English "gun" and Japanese
"kan."