Hikarimono and marination
mah...@hotmail.com
I was wondering if there are any hikarimono that do not require any
marination? I've had some where I believe the marination is very light
(as the itamae wanted to present the natural flavors of the fish).
Of the following (which I've had locally in California), which of these
would fall under "heavy", "moderate", "light" or "almost none" in terms
of degrees of or time required in marination?
Aji (fresh)
Iwashi (fresh)
Shimesaba (non Japanese variety, one of my favorite places sources
their saba from Norway. Where are your favorite saba sources from?)
Japanese saba
Seki Saba
Kohada
Shinko (I think it was shinko, it was prepared in braided pairs)
Dan Logcher
> Aji (fresh)
> Iwashi (fresh)
> Shimesaba (non Japanese variety, one of my favorite places sources
> their saba from Norway. Where are your favorite saba sources from?)
> Japanese saba
> Seki Saba
> Kohada
> Shinko (I think it was shinko, it was prepared in braided pairs)
I've had the following:
Aji (fresh)
Iwashi (fresh)
Shimasaba (fresh, light, moderate, heavy)
Japanese Saba (light)
Kohada (light, heavy)
Sawara (fresh) This counts as hikarimono?
--
Dan
Musashi
<mah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115690689.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I can't say that I've had a wide range of hikarimono.
> I was wondering if there are any hikarimono that do not require any
> marination? I've had some where I believe the marination is very light
> (as the itamae wanted to present the natural flavors of the fish).
>
> Of the following (which I've had locally in California), which of these
> would fall under "heavy", "moderate", "light" or "almost none" in terms
> of degrees of or time required in marination?
>
"Time required" for marination is a bit of a trick question. I sometimes
make shimesaba myself
if I happen to go mackerel fishing and found that depending on the chef,
marination times for both salt
and vinegar can range anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours. Also
whether the saba is lean or fatty
makes a big difference aswell. This would explain why shimesaba tastes
different depending on the establishment.
> Aji (fresh)
> Iwashi (fresh)
Aji I have always had fresh.
Iwashi 90% of the time I have had fresh. But I have also once
had marinated.
> Shimesaba (non Japanese variety, one of my favorite places sources
> their saba from Norway. Where are your favorite saba sources from?)
> Japanese saba
> Seki Saba
Mackerel harvests and costs in Japan have made North Atlantic mackerel
imported from Norway
the main mackerel used for sushi in Japan from several years ago. Personally
I haven't had
"Japanese" mackerel, pacific mackerel I presume in years so I don't know
which I'd prefer.
Seki saba is Japanese (pacific) mackerel caught in a certain area, off the
coast of Ooita prefecture
and Kouchi pefecture where sea currents converge. Fish from this area are
considered tastier than
others. There is also Seki Aji.
> Kohada
> Shinko (I think it was shinko, it was prepared in braided pairs)>
Always marinated and can vary, like shimesaba, from lightly marinated to
something
close to pickled herring. Shinko is very seasonal and I haven't seen it here
in the US.
Have you had shinko here?
M
guren
> I was wondering if there are any hikarimono that do not require any
> marination?
> Aji (fresh)
> Iwashi (fresh)
Two more that usually do not require marination include:
- sayori (halfbeak)
- sanma (saury)
glenn
Musashi
"guren" <photo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ebqraF...@individual.net...
I have yet to find any place (at least in New York) that carries
sayori or sanma.
Even the now closed Sushi-sei of Manhattan whicxh use to almost always
carry excellent Iwashi never had it.
M
Dan Logcher
> "guren" <photo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ebqraF...@individual.net...
>
>>mah...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>I was wondering if there are any hikarimono that do not require any
>>>marination?
>>
>>>Aji (fresh)
>>>Iwashi (fresh)
>>
>>Two more that usually do not require marination include:
>>
>>- sayori (halfbeak)
>>- sanma (saury)
>>
>
> sayori or sanma.
> Even the now closed Sushi-sei of Manhattan whicxh use to almost always
> carry excellent Iwashi never had it.
I've had it once around Boston. The place I frequent has special items
from time to time. Not sure if I've had sanma.
--
Dan
Musashi
"Dan Logcher" <dlogcher*xspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4280c249$0$577$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
Is this Sushi Island that you recommended to me a couple years ago?
BTW, I did some checking around on google Japan and found nothing
so far indicating that sawara is considered hikarimono.
I suspect that Sawara is simply not a common sushi neta, except maybe
locally
in certain areas. But one thing that does come to mind is that every
Hikarimono has
the shiny skin still visible, but not sawara.
M
Dan Logcher
> "Dan Logcher" <dlogcher*xspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4280c249$0$577$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
>
>>Musashi wrote:
>>
>>>"guren" <photo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3ebqraF...@individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>mah...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was wondering if there are any hikarimono that do not require any
>>>>>marination?
>>>>
>>>>>Aji (fresh)
>>>>>Iwashi (fresh)
>>>>
>>>>Two more that usually do not require marination include:
>>>>
>>>>- sayori (halfbeak)
>>>>- sanma (saury)
>>>>
>>>
>>>I have yet to find any place (at least in New York) that carries
>>>sayori or sanma.
>>>Even the now closed Sushi-sei of Manhattan whicxh use to almost always
>>>carry excellent Iwashi never had it.
>>
>>I've had it once around Boston. The place I frequent has special items
>>from time to time. Not sure if I've had sanma.
>>
Yes, my all time favorite local place in the Boston area. They consistantly
have special items listed on the board,and excellent quality.
> BTW, I did some checking around on google Japan and found nothing
> so far indicating that sawara is considered hikarimono.
> I suspect that Sawara is simply not a common sushi neta, except maybe
> locally in certain areas. But one thing that does come to mind is that every
> Hikarimono has the shiny skin still visible, but not sawara.
Ok, I wasn't sure if it was or not.. I thought so cuz it seems to have
a shiny flecks when prepared.
--
Dan
mah...@hotmail.com
That would be the west coast. If anything at most one or two sushi bars
have it if and when they can get it (very rare). I really can't say if
it was shinko, I'll have to ask next time.
Sayori (needlefish) I've had as well. Forgot about that one. The one I
had did have some very light marination. Only one place in my area had
it, and if they had it again I kept missing it (brief window each
year).
Fresh sanma is a very popular around summertime to pre fall season
fish, served as nigiri typically in most of the mid to higher end sushi
bars in the SF Bay Area. I suppose the itamaes here can get this easily
from local fish distributors/middle men.
Musashi
<mah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115754717.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Fresh sanma is a very popular around summertime to pre fall season
> fish, served as nigiri typically in most of the mid to higher end sushi
> bars in the SF Bay Area. I suppose the itamaes here can get this easily
> from local fish distributors/middle men.
>
This is clearly the big difference between the West Coast sushi places and
East coast ones...Sanma is available here in Japanese grocery stores and I
think
they are US west coast origin because of the low price, however every now
and then
some stores carry "sanma airfreighted from Japan" at usually double the
price.
But, none of the Sushi restaurants that I know of both in and out of NY City
serve sanma.
M
mah...@hotmail.com
Funny how the itamae at this one favorite place of mine told me sayori
was needlefish (pointy and long, so I guess it wasn't sayori but it was
needlefish). I now recall having sayori in Osaka 6 years ago and it
didn't quite look like the needlefish nigiri I had. ;-)
Very interesting; same country, different coasts, and different
sushi/fish availability. I guess if you run a sushi bar in the mid west
you're at the mercy of whatever you can get your hands on. I suppose
prawns from the Gulf of Mexico might make decent cooked ebi, or ama-ebi
(if you are in Texas). I've had Japanese air freighted Sanma (or so it
was claimed). It's softer and more delicate than fresh iwashi. Though I
see sanma shioyaki (different variety) a lot more on dinner menus (also
as an alternate to saba shioyaki).
Slightly off tangent, is "tachio" (belt fish) considered hikarimono?
It's certainly not as dark grey as the other common fare, but at some
Chinese supermarkets this other variant does look light silvery on the
skin. The tachio I've had here (once or twice some years ago) was
served lightly seared with a dash of yuzu flavored pepper on nigiri.
Musashi
<mah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115789679.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It was mentioned in this NG that some sushi restaurants in Florida
serve Grouper. I've had grouper (called Hata or Ara) in Japan but only once
in the US and it was flown in from Japan. Something I should check out if
I go to Florida.
>I've had Japanese air freighted Sanma (or so it
> was claimed). It's softer and more delicate than fresh iwashi. Though I
> see sanma shioyaki (different variety) a lot more on dinner menus (also
> as an alternate to saba shioyaki).
>
Good Japanese Sanma is fatty and tasty, especially the fall run.
However bear in mind that all of the hikarimono are not considered
"high class" fish at all.
> Slightly off tangent, is "tachio" (belt fish) considered hikarimono?
> It's certainly not as dark grey as the other common fare, but at some
> Chinese supermarkets this other variant does look light silvery on the
> skin. The tachio I've had here (once or twice some years ago) was
> served lightly seared with a dash of yuzu flavored pepper on nigiri.
Tachiuo can be had as sashimi and as nigiri in some places in Japan, but I
don't think
it's common everywhere. I also don't think it's considered hikarimono, but
I'll have to check
Hikarimono not only has the characteristic of being shiny as the name
implies, but also a
relatively cheap fish, high in oil content, and caught in great abundance.
Unlike the others,
Tachiuo is certainly not high in oil, having actually a rather bland soft
white meat similar
to ebo dai (butterfish). I have seen whole Tachiuo marked "beltfish" in
Chinese stores in
the NY City area but never in any kind of decent condition.
M
Anonymouse
>>That would be the west coast. If anything at most one or two sushi bars
>>have it if and when they can get it (very rare).
Hi,
you west coast folks are spoiled!
we get pretty good sushi here (memphis, tennessee) but that's only
becuase FedEx is based here... and it's really good only in a couple
of places.
when I've been out to the bay area it seems there's a decent sushi bar
on every corner. people waiting for a seat at Isobune (sp?) in
Japantown (and for a "cheap sushi boat place" they've got quite a
selection).
--
Leinad .22/.45/.410 Over & Under Derringer Parts Set
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7155613200
Leinad .45/.410 Pepperbox Derringer Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7155611601
Geoff
> Musashi wrote:
>
>>I think Sayori is halfbeak, rather than needlefish.
I think both names are used for Hiporhampus sajori
Geoff
> I have seen whole Tachiuo marked "beltfish" in
> Chinese stores in
> the NY City area but never in any kind of decent condition.
>
Our usual place in Pasadena often has ebodai on the menu as a special,
calling it "Pompona." BTW, what is the kanji for the "ebo" part?
Dan Logcher
>
>>> That would be the west coast. If anything at most one or two sushi bars
>>> have it if and when they can get it (very rare).
>
>
> Hi,
>
> you west coast folks are spoiled!
They are spoiled! I was spoiled for a few weeks last time I was out there..
I miss it.
> we get pretty good sushi here (memphis, tennessee) but that's only
> becuase FedEx is based here... and it's really good only in a couple of
> places.
We actually get pretty good stuff here in Boston, excellent selection at
some places. Others have the usual items.
> when I've been out to the bay area it seems there's a decent sushi bar
> on every corner. people waiting for a seat at Isobune (sp?) in Japantown
> (and for a "cheap sushi boat place" they've got quite a selection).
Been there, ate that. It was cheap, fun, and mediocre. I had much better
sushi near Market St. Try Sakana on Post.
--
Dan
Musashi
"Geoff" <grw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yqoge.678$Dh....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I have had Ebodai a few times as sushi and I have never taken any special
liking to it.
As you know, the vast majority of fish names today are written in katakana,
so you won't see
ebodai in kanji too often.
Ebodai seems to be a variation of the name Ibodai (疣鯛), said name being in
use in some areas.
The same Japanese butterfish is also called Shizu in northern Kyuushu, and
Boze in other places.
M
Musashi
Needle fish are family Belonidae, and are called needlefish in the US,
gar in northern Europe, and Datsu(駄津) in Japan.
They have elongated jaws (beaks) both top and bottom.
Sayori are Hemiramphidae family, and have only an elongated lower jaw.
But both fish have a generally slender needle-like body so perhaps the term
needlefish is
loosely used for both. A more likely reason that the term "needlefish" was
used to
describe a halfbeak is that another name for Sayori (細魚) is Hariuo(針魚
..literally..needle fish").
M
Dan Logcher
> "Geoff" <grw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_noge.677$Dh....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>mah...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Musashi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think Sayori is halfbeak, rather than needlefish.
>>
>>I think both names are used for Hiporhampus sajori
>
>
> Needle fish are family Belonidae, and are called needlefish in the US,
> gar in northern Europe, and Datsu(駄津) in Japan.
> They have elongated jaws (beaks) both top and bottom.
They call it Gar in the US as well. That's freshwater fish, but reminds
me of Baracuda in its shape and profile. Grrrr.. mean looking.
--
Dan
Dan Logcher
> However bear in mind that all of the hikarimono are not considered
> "high class" fish at all.
Meaning, that rich folks wouldn't eat it?
--
Dan
Musashi
Meaning that 150 years ago...yes.
The nobles ate Tai and other delicate shiromi fish, while the masses
ate economical and abundant oily fish.
An interesting aspect to this is that back then, Maguro was considered
also a "lower class fish" as well when it first started being used for
sushi.
But then again, lobster was a looked-down-upon poor-man's food
here in the US Northeast back then as well.
M
Dan Logcher
> "Dan Logcher" <dlogcher*xspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4283490a$0$577$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
>
>>Musashi wrote:
>>
>>>However bear in mind that all of the hikarimono are not considered
>>>"high class" fish at all.
>>
>>Meaning, that rich folks wouldn't eat it?
>>
>
> The nobles ate Tai and other delicate shiromi fish, while the masses
> ate economical and abundant oily fish.
> An interesting aspect to this is that back then, Maguro was considered
> also a "lower class fish" as well when it first started being used for
> sushi.
Wow! So the poor folk got the Omega 3 oily fish out of the deal.
Reminds me of the Maple Syrup grades, and how "Fancy A" was preferred
by the wealthy. I prefer "Amber B" for its rich flavor.
> But then again, lobster was a looked-down-upon poor-man's food
> here in the US Northeast back then as well.
Yeah, those starving Pilgrims wouldn't eat the nasty sea bugs.
--
Dan
Musashi
The migration and evolution of foods across distances and cultures as well
as
their changing status in society is fascinating.
barry
wrote:
let me know when the french start eating velveeta.
Musashi
"barry" <toisa...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a4r781ts83bcchnal...@4ax.com...
May not be too long. They already eat kanikama and love it.
barry
wrote:
really? how do they prepare it?
mah...@hotmail.com
It was kibinago, which the chef translated as baby sardine. Very soft
texture,
thin braided pieces as nigiri. I suppose these still qualify as
hikarimono.
So what can Musashi-san, Barry-san and the others tell us about
kibinago :-)?
Musashi
In salads.
They call it "surimi" the name for ground fish.
Musashi
<mah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115960242....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I can't say too much about kibinago. Has a distinctive silver side that
reminds me a bit of
American fish like smelts, silversides, grunion etc.
I've had kibinago a few times as sashimi. In Kyuushu it's served with
su-miso
(vinegar & miso). I've had it with the shoyu as well. Also I've had them as
karaage
where it remsembles the whole-fried-small-fish dishes found in many
countries.
I don't think "baby sardine" is quite right. It's certainly a member of the
sardine family
not too big maybe 4-5 inches but I think that is as big as it gets. Maybe
what they call "sprats"
in England?
Anyway ,may not have been shinko, but kibinago is another neta that we don't
see here at
all in New York.
M
Michael
>>
> > But then again, lobster was a looked-down-upon poor-man's food
> > here in the US Northeast back then as well.
>
> Yeah, those starving Pilgrims wouldn't eat the nasty sea bugs.
Kind of idea about oysters stuffing for fowl, oysters were cheaper than
bread.
Geoff
Spratelloides gracilis
黍魚子
きびなご
Silver-stripe round herring (also: pond herring, round herring, blue
sprat)
barry
i've had sardine only infrequently, and only fresh.
i've had kohada served braided, but that's it.
Dan Logcher
> On 12 May 2005 21:57:22 -0700, mah...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>It turns out that what I had wasn't shinko.... my bad.
>>
>>It was kibinago, which the chef translated as baby sardine. Very soft
>>texture,
>>thin braided pieces as nigiri. I suppose these still qualify as
>>hikarimono.
>>
>>So what can Musashi-san, Barry-san and the others tell us about
>>kibinago :-)?
>
>
> i've had sardine only infrequently, and only fresh.
I have it almost every time I go now.. always fresh.
> i've had kohada served braided, but that's it.
Braided or braised?
--
Dan
barry
braided - cut with a slit down the middle & one end pulled through the
slit & folded over
mah...@hotmail.com
Yep I've had that too, braided kohada (same concept as braided hair...
but yeah I don't eat hair heh). The sheer elegance and mark of an
itamae with serious knife skills.
The kibinago I had was layed out similar to a braid, but technically
not (since the amount of edibles was too short to braid
Dan Logcher
> barry wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:33:00 -0400, Dan Logcher
>><dlogcher*xspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>barry wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 12 May 2005 21:57:22 -0700, mah...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It turns out that what I had wasn't shinko.... my bad.
>>>>>
>>>>>It was kibinago, which the chef translated as baby sardine. Very
>
> soft
>
>>>>>texture,
>>>>>thin braided pieces as nigiri. I suppose these still qualify as
>>>>>hikarimono.
>>>>>
>>>>>So what can Musashi-san, Barry-san and the others tell us about
>>>>>kibinago :-)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>i've had sardine only infrequently, and only fresh.
>>>
>>>I have it almost every time I go now.. always fresh.
>>>
>>>
>>>>i've had kohada served braided, but that's it.
>>>
>>>Braided or braised?
>>
>>braided - cut with a slit down the middle & one end pulled through
>
> the
>
>>slit & folded over
>
>
> Yep I've had that too, braided kohada (same concept as braided hair...
> but yeah I don't eat hair heh). The sheer elegance and mark of an
> itamae with serious knife skills.
Wow, never seen that one. I've only had kohada about 4 times.. its
not very common in the Boston area.
--
Dan
Clifford Mitchell
<morespa...@yahoo.co.fr> wrote:
>
>>>That would be the west coast. If anything at most one or two sushi bars
>>>have it if and when they can get it (very rare).
>
>Hi,
>
>you west coast folks are spoiled!
>
>we get pretty good sushi here (memphis, tennessee) but that's only
>becuase FedEx is based here... and it's really good only in a couple
>of places.
>
>when I've been out to the bay area it seems there's a decent sushi bar
>on every corner. people waiting for a seat at Isobune (sp?) in
>Japantown (and for a "cheap sushi boat place" they've got quite a
>selection).
Well I do not know if Las Vegas, NV truly fits the "West Coast"
profile but here "The Sushi House Manda" (has a website by that name)
is truely a fine experience. They have servial items on their menue
that are truly their own their own creations. They have a creation of
theires called "Yum Yum Sauce" that we have never found anywhere. It
consists of Cream Cheesee and other things that are fantastic. This
is a fantastic dining experience. If you are visiting Las Vegas
please give it a try. You won't be disappoinee.