Unemployed BBQ'er needs advice

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bbq

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Sep 5, 2003, 8:35:59 PM9/5/03
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I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful employment.

So, it is time for me to explore other types of employment to keep the
banker, grocery store, insurance and oil companies happy.

20 years ago, when I was more inclined to stop in a bar for a couple, to
shoot pool, shoot bull or meet woman, there was an individual that
stopped by occasionally to sell his BBQ chicken wings. And people seemed
to like them. I didn't, cause they were very salty, but others couldn't
wait for the chicken wing guy to stop by.

From what I remember, he was able to use or rent facilities from some
place having a commercial oven, avoiding the expense of property and
large expensive equipment.

He carried the wings, wrapped in foil bags, in a hot box of some sort
and would just stop by, pretty much when he felt like it. Nothing
regular or scheduled. He would go around to other local taverns during
the evening. He did this for years from what I was told. I no longer
live around that area and no longer stop in bars often. This was in a
metro area. And I am too.

To shorten things up a bit, I am looking for advice on what folks here
think about such an endeavor, using spare ribs, chicken legs, pulled
pork or brisket instead of wings. Not sure what I need to pay to get
these at a wholesale price. Checked out babybacks and the few places I
called, price for 30 LBS or so was not much cheaper than the grocery
store. Heck, I think I could get them cheaper at SAMS club.

The main idea here is to BBQ something that could be sold for $2.00 or
so and still allow me to make a profit. He sold his wings for $1.00 and
they were packaged 3 wings to a bag. But this was 20 years ago.

Have at it folks. All advice, pro or con, is welcome. The immediate
financial goal is to keep myself financially above water. Longer term
goals are to be determined.

Thank You

Happy Q'en

BBQ

The Fat Man®²°°³

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Sep 5, 2003, 10:03:34 PM9/5/03
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bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:PZ96b.275188$Oz4.73215@rwcrnsc54...

I ain't tryin' to be mean in general, but you shoulda been looking for some
sort of gainful employment about a year ago.

Sounds like you're in a jam right now and are needing a quick fix. Mama
always told me the best place to go when you were broke was work.

The wings were a seller because there ain't much meat on 'em to fill a
drinkin' man up, and they were OK with the bar because they were salty and
caused customers to drink more.

What area of the country are you going to attempt this endeavor? Locale
will have a large effect on what will sell in taverns.

I can't recommend anything, cause food ain't on my mind when I'm in a bar.
It would have to be something unique and damn good to entice me away from my
glass. Maybe Atomic Wolf turdsŽ

TFMŽ


bbq

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Sep 5, 2003, 10:34:52 PM9/5/03
to

The Fat Man®˛°°ł wrote:
>
> I ain't tryin' to be mean in general, but you shoulda been looking for some
> sort of gainful employment about a year ago.
>

TFM, you ain't being mean. I been looking for gainful employment for the
last year. But it has been geared toward the IT industry. Now, I need
to start earning a check, regardless or my preferred industry.

> Sounds like you're in a jam right now and are needing a quick fix. Mama
> always told me the best place to go when you were broke was work.
>

I am not in a jam, yet. I will be able to have housing and groceries for
6 months for sure and probably 9 months. The mortgage holder does not
yet know my income is ZERO dollars. I am sure they don't even care, as
long as the payment is made as it has been for a dozen years, on time.

> The wings were a seller because there ain't much meat on 'em to fill a
> drinkin' man up, and they were OK with the bar because they were salty and
> caused customers to drink more.
>

Exactly my thoughts. And my idea is to at least provide something a
little more meaty.

> What area of the country are you going to attempt this endeavor? Locale
> will have a large effect on what will sell in taverns.
>

I am in the upper midwest, Minnesota to be exact.

> I can't recommend anything, cause food ain't on my mind when I'm in a bar.
> It would have to be something unique and damn good to entice me away from my

> glass. Maybe Atomic Wolf turds®
>

It's not meant to be a meal per say. More like H'ordevoures(sp is bad
on friday nights :-) or a snack.

Thank you for your comments.

Happy Q'en,

BBQ

> TFM®
>
>

BOB

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Sep 5, 2003, 11:18:55 PM9/5/03
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In news:PZ96b.275188$Oz4.73215@rwcrnsc54,
bbq <b...@nospam.com> typed:

> I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
> hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
> mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful employment.
>
Do you know how to run a news server? From my experience, BellSouth.net needs
to hire someone that does!

BOB


Play4aBuck

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Sep 6, 2003, 1:15:44 AM9/6/03
to
bbq wrote in message ...

>I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
>hard to come by these days.

Yep, First Data Resources in Omaha, NE just laid off well over a hundred
people. And Quest made cuts a few weeks ago.

>
>20 years ago, when I was more inclined to stop in a bar for a couple, to
>shoot pool, shoot bull or meet woman, there was an individual that
>stopped by occasionally to sell his BBQ chicken wings. And people seemed
>to like them. I didn't, cause they were very salty, but others couldn't
>wait for the chicken wing guy to stop by.
>

Here in Omaha, NE we have a PizzaGuy that visits bars all over town, I mean
from one end to the other and we have alot of bars. He carries 2-3 pizzas
in hot bag. Some times he makes a sale or two, and some times not. I guess
this could actually be a cash business for him, so without taxes maybe he's
making an income.

> From what I remember, he was able to use or rent facilities from some
>place having a commercial oven, avoiding the expense of property and
>large expensive equipment.
>
>He carried the wings, wrapped in foil bags, in a hot box of some sort
>and would just stop by, pretty much when he felt like it. Nothing
>regular or scheduled. He would go around to other local taverns during
>the evening. He did this for years from what I was told. I no longer
>live around that area and no longer stop in bars often. This was in a
>metro area. And I am too.
>
>To shorten things up a bit, I am looking for advice on what folks here
>think about such an endeavor, using spare ribs, chicken legs, pulled
>pork or brisket instead of wings. Not sure what I need to pay to get
>these at a wholesale price. Checked out babybacks and the few places I
>called, price for 30 LBS or so was not much cheaper than the grocery
>store. Heck, I think I could get them cheaper at SAMS club.

Hmm, what keeps better longer, what's more portable, and with what can you
profit the most? How many bars would allow you to sell? Sorry, no answers
here, just open thoughts.

>
>The main idea here is to BBQ something that could be sold for $2.00 or
>so and still allow me to make a profit. He sold his wings for $1.00 and
>they were packaged 3 wings to a bag. But this was 20 years ago.

Personally, I'd look to setup a sidewalk stand/wagon. One or two
individuals make a killing in downtown Omaha, selling hotdogs, sausages,
chips, and sodas. You might also consider catering parties, or seeing if
the local food stores would allow you setup shop in the parking lot.

>
>Have at it folks. All advice, pro or con, is welcome. The immediate
>financial goal is to keep myself financially above water. Longer term
>goals are to be determined.

Ever think of relocating.......or retraining to the PC world? (yuck).

Cheers,
Jim


Reg

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Sep 6, 2003, 1:19:06 AM9/6/03
to
Play4aBuck wrote:

> Ever think of relocating

For tech workers this is actually your best bet

> or retraining to the PC world?

Frying pan into the fire

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Thomas Mooney

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Sep 6, 2003, 1:25:48 AM9/6/03
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Reg <r...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:e7e6b.11600$nm4....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...

> Play4aBuck wrote:
>
> > Ever think of relocating
>
> For tech workers this is actually your best bet

Relocating to where? India?

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

Play4aBuck

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Sep 6, 2003, 1:48:04 AM9/6/03
to

Thomas Mooney wrote in message ...
>
>Relocating to where? India?
>

Where ever you are needed.

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

Cheers,
Jim


The Fat Man®²°°³

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Sep 6, 2003, 4:55:04 AM9/6/03
to
Reg wrote:
> Play4aBuck wrote:
>
>> Ever think of relocating
>
> For tech workers this is actually your best bet
>
>> or retraining to the PC world?
>
> Frying pan into the fire


Answer me this......I was considering going to a computer school a while
back to be certified in some field or another. It appears this would have
been a waste of time and money.
Where is the money in computers these days?

I enjoy building and repairing them. Is there a future in that, or am I
stuck pounding nails the rest of my life?

TFM®


Reg

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Sep 6, 2003, 5:17:21 AM9/6/03
to

The Fat Man®²°°³ wrote:

> Answer me this......I was considering going to a computer school a while
> back to be certified in some field or another. It appears this would have
> been a waste of time and money.

A better way to describe it would be that you just missed getting on
a plane that ended up flying into a mountain. I think you should
be very comfortable with your decision.

> Where is the money in computers these days?

Security is at the top of the list. It's not an easy field,
especially with the amount of competition. I specialized in it
for several years and really didn't enjoy it because of it's
inherently paranoid nature.

> I enjoy building and repairing them. Is there a future in that, or am I
> stuck pounding nails the rest of my life?

Funny you should mention pounding nails. I have a friend that was laid
off last year (after being promised by mgmt this would never happen).
His carpentry skills saved him from foreclosure and now he's
actually doing pretty well. Maybe carpentry and remodeling is stronger
is the SF are than in your part of Florida.

I take it you've scoped out all the possibilites for moving up
within your field (hiring a crew, etc) instead of switching altogether?

frohe

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 7:56:01 AM9/6/03
to
bbq wrote:
> 20 years ago, when I was more inclined to stop in a bar for a couple,
> to shoot pool, shoot bull or meet woman, there was an individual that
> stopped by occasionally to sell his BBQ chicken wings. And people
> seemed to like them. I didn't, cause they were very salty, but others
> couldn't wait for the chicken wing guy to stop by.

20 years ago, that was prolly a good business enterprise but I doubt most
taverns would let you do that now. They prolly have wings and ribs
themselves. We won't even go into the health department issue with all
their food handling & storage requirements.
--
-frohe
Life is too short to be in a hurry


Matthew L. Martin

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Sep 6, 2003, 8:12:31 AM9/6/03
to

There are lots of companies that _need_ IT help, but none of them are
hiring. They won't hire until the cost of providing poor service is a
lot greater than the cost of fixing the problem.

Matthew (who has worked 7 weeks in the last 25 months)

--
<http://www.mlmartin.com/bbq/>

Thermodynamics For Dummies: You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't get out of the game.

Matthew L. Martin

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Sep 6, 2003, 8:15:12 AM9/6/03
to
Steve Wertz wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 05:19:06 GMT, Reg <r...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Ever think of relocating
>>
>>For tech workers this is actually your best bet
>
>

> It's hard finding companies/jobs nowdays that will even consider any
> non-local applicants.

That matches up with my experience. I have seen a few positions that
offer "help" with relocation expenses, most don't.

Matthew

Jack Schidt®

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Sep 6, 2003, 9:36:42 AM9/6/03
to

"bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:PZ96b.275188$Oz4.73215@rwcrnsc54...
>
> The main idea here is to BBQ something that could be sold for $2.00 or
> so and still allow me to make a profit. He sold his wings for $1.00 and
> they were packaged 3 wings to a bag. But this was 20 years ago.
>


I'm looking at this like you're going bar to bar with your wares. I'm also
thinking "barroom" as a smoky place where people get drunk, a local tavern,
a dive, whatever. To me that kind of environment and culture is a bit more
"underground" than most establishments.

Anyway, wings is a good idea, but grilled chicken drumsticks would be
better. You can take a bite out of one and still have some left. A buck
apiece. Keep in mind that if it catches on, you'll experience a wave of
popularity with your product before it becomes the same old shit.

Good Luck, I'm glad I engage in the 3rd oldest profession in the world which
many times morphs into the 1st.

Jack


bbq

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:57:19 AM9/6/03
to

TFM

Six years ago or so, I knew an individual that paid 5K to go to school
for Computer repair. After completing courses took test to become A++
Certified. The job qualified him for a job at a Comp USA repair desk.
About $10 per hour. Not good in my opinion.
Where is a good place to start in the IT industry, I don't know. I
suspect that you want to get away from the pounding nails, but also need
to find something that you enjoy and could get you back to wages your
accustomed to making, in a short time.

Good money can be made in network administration. But at this time, jobs
are scarce. Will it bounce back? I certainly hope so, but do not when.

Around here there was a shortage of IT folks around 97 or so. Our
wonderful leaders in Washington started letting immigrants come in and
get these jobs. Sometimes, these folks were very minimally qualified and
of course their ability to communicate clearly in english was also
limited. Now there is a shortage of jobs and the folks I see unemployed
are citizens. For some reason, the non-english speaking folks are still
employed it appears to me.

If you are serious about building a resume with IT skills, I would
suggest going to Comp USA and buying a book or books on becoming A++
certified. Study it, study it and study it again. Take the test and see
what happens. I think you have enough knowledge of the makings and
workings of PC's to be able to get through the test by studying the
books and not going to classes at considerable cost. If this goes well
consider going to school and get some training in networks. MSCE is a
common certification people get. Cisco training is very good to, but
also very expensive. You will need to find a job with the right company
that is willing to spend some $$$ on training.


Good Luck

BBQ


> TFM®
>
>

bbq

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 11:03:56 AM9/6/03
to

>
>
> Ever think of relocating.......or retraining to the PC world? (yuck).
>

I have some Unix training and experience, but it is limited. Relocating
for a job in my area of expertise is highly unlikely. Both because I do
not want to and an employer is not likely to offer enough to make it
worth my while, even if there were a shortage of people.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Happy Q'en

BBQ
> Cheers,
> Jim
>
>

bbq

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Sep 6, 2003, 11:25:46 AM9/6/03
to

Matthew L. Martin wrote:

> BOB wrote:
>
>> In news:PZ96b.275188$Oz4.73215@rwcrnsc54,
>> bbq <b...@nospam.com> typed:
>>
>>> I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
>>> hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
>>> mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful
>>> employment.
>>>
>>
>> Do you know how to run a news server? From my experience,
>> BellSouth.net needs
>> to hire someone that does!
>>
>
> There are lots of companies that _need_ IT help, but none of them are
> hiring. They won't hire until the cost of providing poor service is a
> lot greater than the cost of fixing the problem.
>

This is precisely what is happening at my former employer. Some new
clown came in and implemented more hoops to get things done(with less
people). Plus, nothing can be done without his approval.

There was a serious outage recently and he was on vacation. Without him
around, the right people got involved immediately and the problems were
fixed. If he had been around that day, it may have taken until the next
day to get the issues resolved.


> Matthew (who has worked 7 weeks in the last 25 months)
>

Hope the new job is going well.

Happy Q'en

BBQ

Pierre

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Sep 6, 2003, 12:24:17 PM9/6/03
to
bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<PZ96b.275188$Oz4.73215@rwcrnsc54>...

I'd sell the house in Minnesota. TF cold up there. Take the proceeds,
buy a ticket to Hawaii, and sell some Q. The tourist dollar is
stronger, and folks are more receptive to buying edibles from some
stranger bearing foil pouches of food.
Get yourself a tan, a straw hat, and a guayabera shirt too. That
should complete your marketing. Try and ditch the Minnesota accent,
while you're at it. Practice some southern dialects.
Louisiana(Cajun) comes to mind. Might friendly folks. A fiddle isn't
necessary IMO.
Let us know how Hawaii works out.

/me nods

Pierre

Harry in Iowa

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Sep 6, 2003, 12:38:25 PM9/6/03
to
bbq <b...@nospam.com> held forth in news:wHm6b.279259$It4.130091
@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net:

If you know unix it isn't that much of a stretch to make the leap to
linux. A lot of servers are now running linux. I know a guy that sets up
networks for small businesses and does their backups, maintenance and
troubleshooting. No degree, just know how.

And if you are a computer nerd and you don't know pc's, well, that is
just plain sad. I have never been employed as a comuter nerd and I have
built my last three computers and have a network in my house. How hard
can it be?

Good luck, be creative. I would go for the combination, sell them hot
wings, ribs and pickled eggs. And troubleshoot their computer.

Harry in Iowa

Bone in boston butt went in the smoker at 6 AM.

Jack Schidt®

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Sep 6, 2003, 4:52:41 PM9/6/03
to

"bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jBm6b.278912$Oz4.72933@rwcrnsc54...

>
> Six years ago or so, I knew an individual that paid 5K to go to school
> for Computer repair. After completing courses took test to become A++
> Certified. The job qualified him for a job at a Comp USA repair desk.
> About $10 per hour. Not good in my opinion.
> Where is a good place to start in the IT industry, I don't know. I
> suspect that you want to get away from the pounding nails, but also need
> to find something that you enjoy and could get you back to wages your
> accustomed to making, in a short time.

No pain, no gain. $5K is cheap for school tuition. Compare that to
medicine, law, or engineering/architecture, et al. Whaddya expect, $40k a
year? On a certification?? Let's talk licensure and then you've got real
paper.

>
> Good money can be made in network administration. But at this time, jobs
> are scarce. Will it bounce back? I certainly hope so, but do not when.

I certainly hope so, too.

>
> Around here there was a shortage of IT folks around 97 or so. Our
> wonderful leaders in Washington started letting immigrants come in and
> get these jobs. Sometimes, these folks were very minimally qualified and
> of course their ability to communicate clearly in english was also
> limited. Now there is a shortage of jobs and the folks I see unemployed
> are citizens. For some reason, the non-english speaking folks are still
> employed it appears to me.

Maybe they work cheap. Ask your bosses why they still have jobs. Maybe
they're good at what they do and work inexpensively. I've been active in
employing people for 15 years and it's been my experience that you don't lay
off the creme de la creme, unless they're wayyyy overpaid. A good
businessman is going to cut the fat and get by with what will work best, the
result of business decisions, not government. Overhead bad, profit good;
nothing sinister there.

>
> If you are serious about building a resume with IT skills, I would
> suggest going to Comp USA and buying a book or books on becoming A++
> certified. Study it, study it and study it again. Take the test and see
> what happens. I think you have enough knowledge of the makings and
> workings of PC's to be able to get through the test by studying the
> books and not going to classes at considerable cost. If this goes well
> consider going to school and get some training in networks. MSCE is a
> common certification people get. Cisco training is very good to, but
> also very expensive. You will need to find a job with the right company
> that is willing to spend some $$$ on training.
>
>

You will not make good money without investing serious effort. If it looks
easy, it's probably going to be short term.

Jack


Jack Curry

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Sep 6, 2003, 5:49:33 PM9/6/03
to
Jack Schidt® wrote:

>
> You will not make good money without investing serious effort. If it
> looks easy, it's probably going to be short term.
>
> Jack


Sage words from Schidt.
Jack Curry


Harry Demidavicius

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Sep 6, 2003, 7:17:53 PM9/6/03
to
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:35:59 GMT, bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote:

>I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
>hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
>mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful employment.
>
>So, it is time for me to explore other types of employment to keep the
>banker, grocery store, insurance and oil companies happy.
>

>BBQ

I have read this whole unhappy thread through and am saddened at how
many of you well trained folks are unemployed.

One year looking for work? Nobody needs that ego boosting trip.

I have two neighbours in IT - one is a large systems guy & works for
the Big Blue. He is run off his feet and his boss has been looking
"forever" to beef up the Department. My neighbour hopes it happens
soon so that he can stand down from being constantly On Call . The
other is self employed and running like crazy.

If my tech weenie wasn't a client, I'd have to kiss his ass in order
to get emergency support - he's that busy.

Any computer guy worth anything can quickly find work here in
Calgary.

FatMan - the best advice I've seen for you is suggesting you move to
Western Canada. Bring your tool box, you'll be busy. The Okanagan
Valley [BC]; the Kootenays BC], and the Crowsnest Path [AB] have
suffered grievous fire damage. Calgary builders cannot keep up with
demand. Journeymen write their own ticket.

Unemployment is not a familiar around concept here.

My $0.02 [$CAD]

Harry

bbq

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:06:35 PM9/6/03
to

Jack Schidt® wrote:
> "bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:jBm6b.278912$Oz4.72933@rwcrnsc54...
>
>>Six years ago or so, I knew an individual that paid 5K to go to school
>>for Computer repair. After completing courses took test to become A++
>>Certified. The job qualified him for a job at a Comp USA repair desk.
>>About $10 per hour. Not good in my opinion.
>>Where is a good place to start in the IT industry, I don't know. I
>>suspect that you want to get away from the pounding nails, but also need
>>to find something that you enjoy and could get you back to wages your
>>accustomed to making, in a short time.
>
>
> No pain, no gain. $5K is cheap for school tuition. Compare that to
> medicine, law, or engineering/architecture, et al. Whaddya expect, $40k a
> year? On a certification?? Let's talk licensure and then you've got real
> paper.
>
>

Maybe 5K is cheap to you, but for the school I thought it was expensive.
I attended the same type of school(Vo-tech) from 86-89 and it was about
1500 per year full-time, plus books. I attended part-time. Not
expecting $40K for a repair technician, starting out, but hopefully $25
- $30K.


>>Good money can be made in network administration. But at this time, jobs
>>are scarce. Will it bounce back? I certainly hope so, but do not when.
>
>
> I certainly hope so, too.
>
>
>>Around here there was a shortage of IT folks around 97 or so. Our
>>wonderful leaders in Washington started letting immigrants come in and
>>get these jobs. Sometimes, these folks were very minimally qualified and
>>of course their ability to communicate clearly in english was also
>>limited. Now there is a shortage of jobs and the folks I see unemployed
>>are citizens. For some reason, the non-english speaking folks are still
>>employed it appears to me.
>
>
> Maybe they work cheap. Ask your bosses why they still have jobs.

I currently do not have a boss to ask.


Maybe
> they're good at what they do and work inexpensively.

My last job, do not know what others made. I guessed I was in the
middle. Some made more for more experience and some made less for less
experience.

I've been active in
> employing people for 15 years and it's been my experience that you don't lay
> off the creme de la creme, unless they're wayyyy overpaid.

I worked for an organization that paid an individual above the pay
range. He was very valuable. But when reorganizing came around, even
though he probably was not at risk, he quit anyway.

A good
> businessman is going to cut the fat and get by with what will work best, the
> result of business decisions, not government. Overhead bad, profit good;
> nothing sinister there.
>

My last job, they brought in a hatchet man. And the hatchet man is
making the division horrible to work in. So the better folks still there
are now starting to leave. The CEO does not have a clue yet, cause the
hatchet man reports everything is OK.


>
>>If you are serious about building a resume with IT skills, I would
>>suggest going to Comp USA and buying a book or books on becoming A++
>>certified. Study it, study it and study it again. Take the test and see
>>what happens. I think you have enough knowledge of the makings and
>>workings of PC's to be able to get through the test by studying the
>>books and not going to classes at considerable cost. If this goes well
>>consider going to school and get some training in networks. MSCE is a
>>common certification people get. Cisco training is very good to, but
>>also very expensive. You will need to find a job with the right company
>>that is willing to spend some $$$ on training.
>>
>>
>
>
> You will not make good money without investing serious effort. If it looks
> easy, it's probably going to be short term.
>

Agreed. And my advice to TFM was to get the A++ certification and if it
went well to continue getting schooling, until he is able to become
employed at a wage he is comfortable with. I don't know what he makes as
a framer, but I would guess he needs to be employed at a minimum of
$30-35K to start a different line of work. I think this is possible in
the network area of IT. But the IT industry for jobs needs to open up a bit.

Happy Q'en

BBQ
> Jack
>
>

Jack Sloan

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:09:38 PM9/6/03
to

"Harry Demidavicius" <har...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ujpklv8j15vchpi29...@4ax.com...
Yeah but, Harry, ain't it cold up there?
Jack


bbq

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:21:10 PM9/6/03
to

Pierre wrote:

Sure sound nice. I spent a week there in 98 and sure enjoyed it, even
though I had to work during the day. Evenings were mine for the most part.

But on the serious side, I would expect housing to be much more
expensive than I am comfortable with.
Also not sure how to develop a Louisiana accent in Hawaii. Spent 8 years
in CA and when I returned for visits, was told I had an accent. Don't
hear that any more. Been back over 20 years.

Will keep in touch if I get there :-)

Happy Q'en

BBQ
> /me nods
>
> Pierre

bbq

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:36:40 PM9/6/03
to

Harry in Iowa wrote:

> bbq <b...@nospam.com> held forth in news:wHm6b.279259$It4.130091
> @rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net:
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Ever think of relocating.......or retraining to the PC world?
>
> (yuck).
>
>>I have some Unix training and experience, but it is limited.
>
> Relocating
>
>>for a job in my area of expertise is highly unlikely. Both because I do
>>not want to and an employer is not likely to offer enough to make it
>>worth my while, even if there were a shortage of people.
>>
>>Thanks for the suggestions,
>>
>>Happy Q'en
>>
>>BBQ
>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> If you know unix it isn't that much of a stretch to make the leap to
> linux. A lot of servers are now running linux. I know a guy that sets up
> networks for small businesses and does their backups, maintenance and
> troubleshooting. No degree, just know how.
>

I have a hard time saying I know unix. I prefer to say I have some
exposure to it. I have taken RedHat training but have no real world
experience with it.

> And if you are a computer nerd and you don't know pc's, well, that is
> just plain sad. I have never been employed as a comuter nerd and I have
> built my last three computers and have a network in my house. How hard
> can it be?
>

I know PC's well. I have built my own PC's a few times. Though I do not
have a home network. Maybe it's time I do, even though I am the only PC
user in my household. Lets see here, should I have the server in the
basement and have a monitor and KB in the kitchen, bathroom and living
room. May as well wire something up in the garage too. :-)


> Good luck, be creative. I would go for the combination, sell them hot
> wings, ribs and pickled eggs. And troubleshoot their computer.
>

Sounds good to me. But when they buy my ribs for just a few dollars, and
when I tell them I need $50 to start trouble shooting their computer,
are they going to beat me with the cleaned off rib bones? :-)

Happy Q'en,

BBQ

Jack Schidt®

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:40:56 PM9/6/03
to

"bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Low6b.378053$Ho3.57396@sccrnsc03...

>
>
> Jack Schidt® wrote:
> > "bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:jBm6b.278912$Oz4.72933@rwcrnsc54...
> >
> >>Six years ago or so, I knew an individual that paid 5K to go to school
> >>for Computer repair. After completing courses took test to become A++
> >>Certified. The job qualified him for a job at a Comp USA repair desk.
> >>About $10 per hour. Not good in my opinion.
> >>Where is a good place to start in the IT industry, I don't know. I
> >>suspect that you want to get away from the pounding nails, but also need
> >>to find something that you enjoy and could get you back to wages your
> >>accustomed to making, in a short time.
> >
> >
> > No pain, no gain. $5K is cheap for school tuition. Compare that to
> > medicine, law, or engineering/architecture, et al. Whaddya expect, $40k
a
> > year? On a certification?? Let's talk licensure and then you've got
real
> > paper.
> >
> >
> Maybe 5K is cheap to you, but for the school I thought it was expensive.
> I attended the same type of school(Vo-tech) from 86-89 and it was about
> 1500 per year full-time, plus books. I attended part-time. Not
> expecting $40K for a repair technician, starting out, but hopefully $25
> - $30K.

In context, $5k is cheap for schooling. Not for me, not for anyone, but
compared to medicine, etc, it's a cheap deal.

> >
> >
> > I certainly hope so, too.
> >
> >
> >>Around here there was a shortage of IT folks around 97 or so. Our
> >>wonderful leaders in Washington started letting immigrants come in and
> >>get these jobs. Sometimes, these folks were very minimally qualified and
> >>of course their ability to communicate clearly in english was also
> >>limited. Now there is a shortage of jobs and the folks I see unemployed
> >>are citizens. For some reason, the non-english speaking folks are still
> >>employed it appears to me.
> >
> >
> > Maybe they work cheap. Ask your bosses why they still have jobs.


>
> I currently do not have a boss to ask.


Ok, ex-boss, then. Ask.


> Maybe
> > they're good at what they do and work inexpensively.
>
> My last job, do not know what others made. I guessed I was in the
> middle. Some made more for more experience and some made less for less
> experience.

Yeah, that's how it works.

>
> I've been active in
> > employing people for 15 years and it's been my experience that you don't
lay
> > off the creme de la creme, unless they're wayyyy overpaid.
>
> I worked for an organization that paid an individual above the pay
> range. He was very valuable. But when reorganizing came around, even
> though he probably was not at risk, he quit anyway.

But not laid off. point?


>
> A good
> > businessman is going to cut the fat and get by with what will work best,
the
> > result of business decisions, not government. Overhead bad, profit
good;
> > nothing sinister there.
> >
>
> My last job, they brought in a hatchet man. And the hatchet man is
> making the division horrible to work in. So the better folks still there
> are now starting to leave. The CEO does not have a clue yet, cause the
> hatchet man reports everything is OK.

The CEO and the "hatchet man" are pals.

> >
> >>If you are serious about building a resume with IT skills, I would
> >>suggest going to Comp USA and buying a book or books on becoming A++
> >>certified. Study it, study it and study it again. Take the test and see
> >>what happens. I think you have enough knowledge of the makings and
> >>workings of PC's to be able to get through the test by studying the
> >>books and not going to classes at considerable cost. If this goes well
> >>consider going to school and get some training in networks. MSCE is a
> >>common certification people get. Cisco training is very good to, but
> >>also very expensive. You will need to find a job with the right company
> >>that is willing to spend some $$$ on training.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > You will not make good money without investing serious effort. If it
looks
> > easy, it's probably going to be short term.
> >
>
> Agreed. And my advice to TFM was to get the A++ certification and if it
> went well to continue getting schooling, until he is able to become
> employed at a wage he is comfortable with. I don't know what he makes as
> a framer, but I would guess he needs to be employed at a minimum of
> $30-35K to start a different line of work. I think this is possible in
> the network area of IT. But the IT industry for jobs needs to open up a
bit.


Sure, the field needs to open up a bit, but no offense, it's not gonna for a
bit until the next big leap. You guys are basically plumbers with chairs,
so hang in there until there's more computers than people.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to get your hands dirty.

Jack


bbq

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 10:54:21 PM9/6/03
to

Harry Demidavicius wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:35:59 GMT, bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
>>hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
>>mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful employment.
>>
>>So, it is time for me to explore other types of employment to keep the
>>banker, grocery store, insurance and oil companies happy.
>>
>>BBQ
>
>
> I have read this whole unhappy thread through and am saddened at how
> many of you well trained folks are unemployed.
>
> One year looking for work? Nobody needs that ego boosting trip.
>
> I have two neighbours in IT - one is a large systems guy & works for
> the Big Blue. He is run off his feet and his boss has been looking
> "forever" to beef up the Department. My neighbour hopes it happens
> soon so that he can stand down from being constantly On Call . The
> other is self employed and running like crazy.
>

That is precisely the problem now days. Companies layoff more than
necessary creating an extra burden on those left. And once they realize
they need additional people, takes forever to get through the corporate
bureaucracy. I found a company in July whose managers think need 2 more
people with my expertise. It is now 2 months later and they still do not
have the authority to post the position and interview. My area of
expertise is not in the 6 figures.

> If my tech weenie wasn't a client, I'd have to kiss his ass in order
> to get emergency support - he's that busy.
>

> Any computer guy worth anything can quickly find work here in
> Calgary.
>

How much is housing? Maybe I will pack up and leave here :-)

> FatMan - the best advice I've seen for you is suggesting you move to
> Western Canada. Bring your tool box, you'll be busy. The Okanagan
> Valley [BC]; the Kootenays BC], and the Crowsnest Path [AB] have
> suffered grievous fire damage. Calgary builders cannot keep up with
> demand. Journeymen write their own ticket.
>
> Unemployment is not a familiar around concept here.
>

I like that. It was that way around here a few years ago.

Happy Q'en

BBQ

> My $0.02 [$CAD]
>
> Harry
>
>
>

Edwin Pawlowski

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 11:17:34 PM9/6/03
to

"bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> Also not sure how to develop a Louisiana accent in Hawaii.

Just watch Justin Wilson re-runs steady for about three days.


Monroe, of course...

unread,
Sep 6, 2003, 11:29:01 PM9/6/03
to
In article <x5x6b.380838$uu5.71870@sccrnsc04>, bbq <b...@nospam.com>
wrote:

> That is precisely the problem now days. Companies layoff more than
> necessary creating an extra burden on those left. And once they realize
> they need additional people, takes forever to get through the corporate
> bureaucracy. I found a company in July whose managers think need 2 more
> people with my expertise. It is now 2 months later and they still do not
> have the authority to post the position and interview. My area of
> expertise is not in the 6 figures.

Too true-Skeleton crew companies are now the norm. Execs say cut
expenditures and the first to go are labor hours. With nobody left to
do needed work, the company folds.
Time and time again I hear of high paid salesforces shaving margins
trying to move higher volumes and-the company folds.
Outsource outsource outsource - ends up costing excessively-company
folds.
It makes me wonder. What the hell are today's MBA's being taught that
they think these stupid ideas are "sound business practices"?
A lot of 'corporate bureaucracy' needs to pull their collective heads
out-there's a lot more to succeeding in business than watching the
bottom line.

monroe(cant starve the grunts and feed only the generals)

JasonW

unread,
Sep 7, 2003, 1:54:16 AM9/7/03
to

"bbq" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:x5x6b.380838$uu5.71870@sccrnsc04...
>
>
<snip>

>
> That is precisely the problem now days. Companies layoff more than
> necessary creating an extra burden on those left. And once they realize
> they need additional people, takes forever to get through the corporate
> bureaucracy. I found a company in July whose managers think need 2 more
> people with my expertise. It is now 2 months later and they still do not
> have the authority to post the position and interview. My area of
> expertise is not in the 6 figures.
>
<snip>
>
> BBQ
>

And when they do post the position, there will be at least a thousand
applicants. I was in IT for a major company in Washington state and I've
been out of work for two years, though I went to school in the meantime to
complete my BS and a couple of AS degrees in computer network administration
and related fields. I have three certs as well and have applied for
everything within 50 miles. Even lowly deskside support jobs are getting
zillions of responses, so employers can really pick and choose. It is doubly
frustrating to hear other employed geeks talk about how their networks are
being hit by worms that the so-called sysadmin could have patched for months
ago. Aieeee! The only positive side to all this is that with all the time
off, I'm learning to cook pretty darn well. Just Q'ed for the first time
with lump a couple of days ago. That stuff lasts forever! I like it.

-JasonW


Matthew L. Martin

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 8:17:56 AM9/8/03
to
bbq wrote:

>
>> Matthew (who has worked 7 weeks in the last 25 months)
>>
>
> Hope the new job is going well.

It went well. I finished up two weeks ago. Now I'm out pounding the
pavement again.

Matthew

Matthew L. Martin

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 9:48:05 AM9/8/03
to
bbq wrote:

>
>
> Harry Demidavicius wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:35:59 GMT, bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
>>> hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
>>> mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> So, it is time for me to explore other types of employment to keep
>>> the banker, grocery store, insurance and oil companies happy.
>>>
>>> BBQ
>>
>>
>>
>> I have read this whole unhappy thread through and am saddened at how
>> many of you well trained folks are unemployed.
>> One year looking for work? Nobody needs that ego boosting trip.
>>
>> I have two neighbours in IT - one is a large systems guy & works for
>> the Big Blue. He is run off his feet and his boss has been looking
>> "forever" to beef up the Department. My neighbour hopes it happens
>> soon so that he can stand down from being constantly On Call . The
>> other is self employed and running like crazy.
>
>
> That is precisely the problem now days. Companies layoff more than
> necessary creating an extra burden on those left.

To make matters worse, they typically use no real criteria for deciding
who stays. My employeed friends are always talking about the morons that
still have jobs while I'm out of work, again.

> And once they realize
> they need additional people, takes forever to get through the corporate
> bureaucracy. I found a company in July whose managers think need 2 more
> people with my expertise. It is now 2 months later and they still do not
> have the authority to post the position and interview. My area of
> expertise is not in the 6 figures.

I've been waiting for a telephone screening for a position that is
approved and advertised. It's been over four months and I'm still being
told that the hiring manager will call "soon".

My theory is that almost all companies are in strict survival mode. They
have no deadlines that really matter, as getting a new product to market
isn't really important when there are no buyers. I think that I'll start
getting steady work once the attitude towards deadlines changes. My 25
years of experience can really help, as much in avoiding pitfalls as
just slogging through the work.

Robert

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 11:29:53 AM9/8/03
to

bbq wrote:

>
> I am in the upper midwest, Minnesota to be exact.
>

FWIW: If you're anywhere near the Twin Cities, there is a couple that runs a
concession called the Rib Cage near Rogers, MN (NW side of Mpls, just north of
Maple Grove). Perhaps you could get a brain dump from them.

This is kind of a cute operation. They operate from May through September. The
marquee item is cherry smoked ribs,($15/rack, nekkid w/sauce on the side) but also
feature pork and beef sandwiches and chickens. Beans and slaw, etc. For reasons
I haven't figured out yet, they move every month to a different parking lot. This
month they are at the Auto Body Shop on 81 just south of the 94/101 interchange.
The ribs are most adequate. They only operate 11-7 M-F. I'm not aware of any
phone number.

Good Luck,
Robert

Harry Demidavicius

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 7:36:07 PM9/8/03
to
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:09:38 -0500, "Jack Sloan" <jqs...@hal-pc.org>
wrote:

We encourage that belief, Jack but if the truth be known, parts
California are further North than S. Ontario. Folks golf year round
on the West Coast. BC wine Country is outperforming Napa. The Old
Hippie Communities on Vancouver Island grow World Class weed.

We get Winter Storms in Calgary but enough Chinooks winds that we get
along OK. No 98F/98Humidity here. I have managed to play my course
in shirtsleeves every month of the year in Calgary - of course not
allways in the same year .....
But I've also seen Haines City Florida [Greenleefe Golf Resort], be
numerically colder than Calgary for a week in November.

But yes, it's bloody cold up here, Jack.

Harry

Harry Demidavicius

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 7:39:34 PM9/8/03
to
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:18:53 -0700, hotair
<hotai...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:

>In article <3f5a93b2$0$67773$a726...@news.hal-pc.org>, jqs...@hal-pc.org says...

>Cold is a relative term.....
>Actually in Kelowna where the main work would be the weather averages
>in the 90's in the summer.
>Winter temps hang around 30-40°F, might be a bit of snow on the ground
>in a cold year.
>On the coast where I am summers are mid 80's, winters are 40ish.
>Now where Harry lives I remember it being -40 one halloween...1981-2?
>But it's a dry cold....LOL
>j/k Harry, I'm seriously thinking of moving back to Alta., better
>economy and better butchers...<G>
>Dave in BC..but from Sask. originally, now thats cold

Yep - Sask is definitely on the nippy side.

Harry

Harry Demidavicius

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 7:57:12 PM9/8/03
to
On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:54:21 GMT, bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>
>Harry Demidavicius wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:35:59 GMT, bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have been unemployed for 1 year. I am an IT person. Jobs in IT are
>>>hard to come by these days. And in particular being more on the
>>>mainframes, makes it that much more difficult to obtain gainful employment.
>>>

>>>BBQ
>>
>>
>> I have read this whole unhappy thread through and am saddened at how
>> many of you well trained folks are unemployed.
>>
>> One year looking for work? Nobody needs that ego boosting trip.
>>
>> I have two neighbours in IT - one is a large systems guy & works for
>> the Big Blue. He is run off his feet and his boss has been looking
>> "forever" to beef up the Department. My neighbour hopes it happens
>> soon so that he can stand down from being constantly On Call . The
>> other is self employed and running like crazy.
>>
>
>That is precisely the problem now days. Companies layoff more than
>necessary creating an extra burden on those left. And once they realize
>they need additional people, takes forever to get through the corporate
>bureaucracy. I found a company in July whose managers think need 2 more
>people with my expertise. It is now 2 months later and they still do not
>have the authority to post the position and interview. My area of
>expertise is not in the 6 figures.

The squeeze at IBM, Calgary is not because of previous lay-offs -
there weren't any. It's increased demand. The local bureaucracy is
easy - contract hire the guy you need and then chase the paper through
HR to make him an employee.


>
>How much is housing? Maybe I will pack up and leave here :-)
>

It sucks. A hundred K house costs about 350K, but condos are
affordable and mostly quite nice.

HAD

>> FatMan - the best advice I've seen for you is suggesting you move to
>> Western Canada. Bring your tool box, you'll be busy. The Okanagan
>> Valley [BC]; the Kootenays BC], and the Crowsnest Path [AB] have
>> suffered grievous fire damage. Calgary builders cannot keep up with
>> demand. Journeymen write their own ticket.
>>
>> Unemployment is not a familiar around concept here.
>>
>
>I like that. It was that way around here a few years ago.

It's likely not going to get much better with your Preyzeedehnt
driving up to the Fort Knox cash pump for $87Billion fill-ups to
support his Easter Egg Hunt in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Harry
>

Harry Demidavicius

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 8:04:14 PM9/8/03
to

While the traditional role of a career lifer employee is rapidly
morphing, into contracted labour all the successfull business that I
know, treasure their people. The ones who didn't have begun to
realize the error of their ways.

Harry

Jack Curry

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 8:10:35 PM9/8/03
to

But that it were true in USA, Harry. Our companies are still on the slash
and burn program with a vengeance.
Jack Curry


Monroe, of course...

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 8:51:49 PM9/8/03
to
In article <%T87b.27764$Mb2.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "Jack
Curry" <Jack...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Indeed-Pension plans paid into by the company were first to go. then
Insurance benefits. Now overtime laws are being rewritten to benefit
employers.
To be an American worker is to have to stoke yer own 401k, buy yer own
medical insurance, and ask for time off months and months in advance.
Mom and Dad had it pretty cushy all right - back in the day.
Employers who DO give a shit about their workers are getting rare as
hens teeth. It's not considered to be "error of their ways" when
everybody's doing it and saying that the survival of the company
depends on cutting these costs.

monroe(thinking about getting snowtires and emigrating)

shot...@osbtown.com

unread,
Sep 8, 2003, 11:07:23 PM9/8/03
to

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:35:59 GMT, bbq <b...@nospam.com> wrote:

>I have been unemployed for 1 year.

(intro deleted)
>
>BBQ

You came to the right place. There are many professional Q'ers who
visit and propagate this site. I never sold Q, but I have a culinary
background, and might be able to help you out.

There doesn't seem to be too many of us who can turn out a spit turned
milk fed pig (30-40#), and serve it as something that is both an
"eyeful" and something so delicious, that has an unforgetable flavor.

Some of the difficulties are that the skin is so delicate, that it
will split, if done incorrectly. There is no room for error. Also
the presentation must be impecable. Done correctly, you will have
turned out something that almost no one else can do. For that, there
is demand. I don't know how much demand, but I think that I could
cater profitably.

Take a look in the BBQ faq. There may still be something there under
"spit turned whole hog" or something like that. That'll give you a
good idea about what the gig is about. I wrote it, so I can help you
adapt it to your scene. That's a no-brainer, since I prepared these
over a pit in the ground, using cheap and abundant sugar maple as
fuel, and I never had a motorized spit. If you feel that you want to
chip the corners off this thing until it rolls, I'll help with the
first 3-4 steps, and you'll be off and running.

happy trails,
shotgun

21Twelve

unread,
Sep 9, 2003, 10:49:19 AM9/9/03
to

"Harry Demidavicius" <har...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2m4qlvcn1dfkft59m...@4ax.com...

>
> Yep - Sask is definitely on the nippy side.
>
> Harry

Maybe, but anyplace that has a town called Moose Jaw is ok by me. Trivia:
Moose Jaw is mentioned during a fashion show in what movie?

David


John O

unread,
Sep 9, 2003, 1:05:51 PM9/9/03
to
> > Yep - Sask is definitely on the nippy side.
> >
> > Harry
>
> Maybe, but anyplace that has a town called Moose Jaw is ok by me.

A bar there had the best nachos I have ever eaten. And it's right next door
to Regina, which rhymes with...

I made the drive from Sask to MJ a few years back, in February. It was
supposed to have been close to -40 at night. Wow, that was something.
Dangerous, that's what it was.

John O


Harry Demidavicius

unread,
Sep 9, 2003, 7:46:57 PM9/9/03
to

Probly "Ben Hur" :0)

It also has a town called Swift Current - two words not descriptive of
its citizenry . . .

Harry

Doug Norris

unread,
Sep 9, 2003, 7:48:55 PM9/9/03
to
"21Twelve" <cygnu...@REMOVETHISPARTcox.net> writes:

>Maybe, but anyplace that has a town called Moose Jaw is ok by me. Trivia:
>Moose Jaw is mentioned during a fashion show in what movie?

"Slapshot".

Doug


Harry Demidavicius

unread,
Sep 9, 2003, 8:19:02 PM9/9/03
to
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:51:49 GMT, "Monroe, of course..."
<Mag...@knowyerchicken.org> wrote:

The vast majority of Canadians are employed by smaller privately owned
companies [under 50 ee's] as opposed to multi-Nationals.

They pretty well all provide medical & retirement benefits, but the
multi-Nationals have gone the "cafeteria" route. They allocate x% of
annual earnings each ee's Health expense account and let them choose
the items of importance to them. That kind of dough buys pretty
Cadillac coverage here. Retirement is usually a Group RSP [similar
to but nicer than your IRA's], where the employer matches [up to
usually 5%] the ee's contribution. Employers love this as they can
better budget payroll expenses and ee's love it because if they need
strong disability or med or dentistry, they can direct their health
accounts into that direction. It's a "use it lose it" deal because
unused balances cannot be taken out in cash or carried forward.
Contracted ee's contract remunerations reflect these costs as well.

This really works well for Double Income families - she stokes up on
med & he takes on the dentistry, leaving each other as dependent
family members. Uninsurables take advantage of Disability & Life
lines because group benefits usually are Guaranteed Issue at standard
rates. BTW we don't do HMO's here. Pick a Dentist and Dr. that you
like and keep or change as you see fit. I just fired my GP about a
month ago. He bought my predecessor Doctors's practice when he
retired. I could only take so much of this incompetent jerk.

More than you ever wanted to know, eh <g>

Harry

Jack Schidt®

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Sep 9, 2003, 9:41:52 PM9/9/03
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"John O" <johno@NoSpam!!!heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:PLn7b.426$ev2.2...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...

>
> A bar there had the best nachos I have ever eaten. And it's right next
door
> to Regina, which rhymes with...
>

Euglena?

Jack


Jack Curry

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Sep 9, 2003, 9:59:42 PM9/9/03
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"Harry Demidavicius" <har...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
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Naw, you just hurt our feelings even more. And to think that I am actually
grateful to have an HMO.
Jack Curry
Singin' "Oh, Canada" rather off key


21Twelve

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Sep 10, 2003, 11:58:51 AM9/10/03
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"Doug Norris" <norr...@rintintin.colorado.edu> wrote in message
news:norrisdt....@rintintin.colorado.edu...

Ding! We have a winner. Please see Harry Demidavicius for your prize - a
picture of a woman with large boobs.


Harry Demidavicius

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Sep 10, 2003, 10:17:02 PM9/10/03
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They are actually "size averaged" as in

There was a young girl from Assizes,
Who's boobs came in different sizes.
One was small and not much at all,
And the other on e Huge & won prizes.

Harry

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