AT LAST - What's wrong with so many Indian recipes!
David Monk
As a Westerner, I enjoy strong, potent food such as found at Indian
restaurants. But just try to cook up these recipes from an Indian cookbook!
Frustration to say the least! However, I have analyzed the situation over time
and can now describe the main difference between the two genres.
Most dishes served in Indian restaurants are enhanced with fresh, potent
spices. However, the same can be said of home-cooked Indian food. The main
difference is that virtually all "traditional" Indian recipes start out by
cooking sliced onions in vegetable oil. This technique imparts a sickening,
insubstantial sweetness to the food which overrides the power and flavor of the
spices.
There are other ways in which Indian home cooking can be insubstantially sweet.
For example, yogurt -- great in raita salads etc. -- tends towards sweetening
as it is cooked.
Admittedly, I am biased in that I hate any sort of sweetness in my food unless
in its proper place -- dessert. Same goes with dishes such as those coconut
curries from Indonesia, and even in America things like lamb in mint sauce.
Derry Sheena Barbo
In article <5edfr5$6vh$1...@shadow.skypoint.net>, dro...@skypoint.com (David
Monk) wrote:
I disagree most strongly with the above - in my experience, most Indian
Restaurants (especially those in the UK) use "warmed-up" mixes & masalas,
are far too heavy on the spices (often stale), and are no substitute for a
meal cooked out of a cookbook (Madhur Jaffrey for example). The difference
in taste & subtlety is overwhelming - the next best thing to eating in an
Indian home.
thespis (Derry & Sheena Barbour)
Larry Treanor
In article <E7r4u...@cix.compulink.co.uk>, Derry Sheena Barbo
<the...@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes
>In article <5edfr5$6vh$1...@shadow.skypoint.net>, dro...@skypoint.com (David
>Monk) wrote:
>
>> As a Westerner, I enjoy strong, potent food such as found at Indian
>> restaurants. But just try to cook up these recipes from an Indian
>> cookbook! Frustration to say the least! However, I have analyzed the
>> situation over time and can now describe the main difference between
>> the two genres.
for particular tastes that have eluded me for years. Could you really
possess the secrets of culinary exellence:)
>>
>> Most dishes served in Indian restaurants are enhanced with fresh,
>> potent spices. However, the same can be said of home-cooked Indian
>> food. The main difference is that virtually all "traditional" Indian
>> recipes start out by cooking sliced onions in vegetable oil. This
>> technique imparts a sickening, insubstantial sweetness to the food
>> which overrides the power and flavor of the spices.
I know what you mean. Sometimes, though, the sweetness can be well
integrated into the dishes you cook. Also different types of oil impart
different flavours. Using ghee or mixtures of ghee and oil change the
temperatures required temperatures for cooking. The onions can be
varied in amount and cooking times and temperatures. Combinations are
as endless as you wish to make them. Dopaizza <sp> using a
preponderance of onions or putting more in a later stage is effective.
>>
>> There are other ways in which Indian home cooking can be
>> insubstantially sweet. For example, yogurt -- great in raita salads
>> etc. -- tends towards sweetening as it is cooked.
Yogurt does sweeten. I've had results that have been almost inedible.
However I've discovered that the amount used and the type varied too.
Yogurt changes in character around the globe and here in the UK we get a
very bland and insubstantial form mostly. Probably better to make your
own.
>>
>> Admittedly, I am biased in that I hate any sort of sweetness in my food
>> unless in its proper place -- dessert. Same goes with dishes such as
>> those coconut curries from Indonesia, and even in America things like
>> lamb in mint sauce.
I have more or less the same kind of taste.
>>
>I disagree most strongly with the above - in my experience, most Indian
>Restaurants (especially those in the UK) use "warmed-up" mixes & masalas,
>are far too heavy on the spices (often stale), and are no substitute for a
>meal cooked out of a cookbook (Madhur Jaffrey for example). The difference
>in taste & subtlety is overwhelming - the next best thing to eating in an
>Indian home.
I once went to a restraunt here in the UK with two Punjabi friends. The
meal we were served was bland, to use the understament of the century,
it was packet gravy with 'bits' in. We asked for fresh chilis but the
waiter had no idea what we were talking about. They did'nt use them!
What David is seeking is the same as myself. My earliest recolections
of indulging in Asian quisine are like dreams of heaven and I've spent
more than twenty years trying to come close. I've had a few success and
cooked for between 50 and 100 people on various occasions, something I
love as much as sleeping.
Its not a bad idea to go into the kitchens of restraunts where the
owner/manager is approachable (make him your friend) and glean some of
their techniques. If they are proud of their food they will be proud of
their skills, hopefully. In Nottingham UK an owner showed me his
kitchen. The freezer was empty, everything fresh, that place I went to
as often as possible, nothing on the menu was sickly sweet or sickly in
any respect. [I must go back one day soon].
Reading the vast number of recipe books is helpful but time consuming
and I always find that after 10 minutes I'm too hungry to read any more.
Spice mixtures are fascinating and buying, roasting, grinding and
generally combining seeds is pure adventure. Having several jars with
different masala powders/pastes makes for artistic license.
It occurs to also, harking back to the glorious onion, that a meal
cooked over several days and combined at the last moment can be
interesting too. Marination aside that is. Cooking a large pot of
onion an freezing in portions......sorry, I have to get to the kitchen.
I enthuse with all about the delights of this type of food and comments
here are manna for me. Mail me with any ideas, post them, come to my
house, let me come to yours - I'm housebroken - my life is an angst
ridden nightmare in noisy envy of those that can cook and travel.
More ideas.... please..
Thanks David, Derry Sheena
--
Larry Treanor
Brian S. Bearden
In article <E7r4u...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
Derry Sheena Barbo <the...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>I disagree most strongly with the above - in my experience, most Indian
>Restaurants (especially those in the UK) use "warmed-up" mixes & masalas,
>are far too heavy on the spices (often stale), and are no substitute for a
>meal cooked out of a cookbook (Madhur Jaffrey for example). The difference
>in taste & subtlety is overwhelming - the next best thing to eating in an
>Indian home.
This is an interesting observation. I would rate the heirarchy of culinary
experience very differently. With a (very) few exceptions I have found the
food served in Indian homes to be bland and mediocre. And meals cooked out
of cookbooks, while better, still falling short of the meals served in
GOOD restaurants (and there are plenty of bad Indian restaurants!). I live
in the USA and have not had UK indian restaurant food, but I would
rate my experiences, in general, from best to worst as:
1) Good USA restaurants and Taj (and a very few other) restaurants in India.
2) Average US restaurants.
3) Average India restaurants.
4) Good indian homes (very few)
5) Good cookbook recepies.
6) Other restuarants.
7) Most Indian Homes.
I would be interested in other peoples experiences. My sample size for
all of the above is quite small (<20) so I don't consider it the least bit
authoritative, just giving my 2cents.
This brings up two other issues/gripes.
- I have been surprised by the extremely low volume of recipies posted here.
I am especially interested in Indian recipies, but the observation is true
in general. I know EVERYONE who reads the group has a few favorites, and I
imagine the most have a few favorites that they have made up themselves, thus
eliminating any possible copyright problem, and increasing the gereral pool
of creativity (and I am convinced that the creative aspect of cooking is
why most of us cook!) So POST THOSE FAVORITES!!!!!!!
- I am also dissapointed in the lack of general cookbooks sugestions. I think
most of us have 20 or more on our shelves, and are always searching for that
gem, so share! To avoid the hypocrisy label, here are my fav's:
Indian: The two real gems I have found are:
- Prashad: Cooking with the Indian Masters; Kalra, J. Inder Singh and Pradeep
Das Gupta; Allied Publishers Limited (Bombay, 1986)
Unfortunately (since it is such a great cookbook) I do not think this book
is available outside India, but if you find yourself in India, make sure to
get a copy. Tends toward very elaborate recipies that you would only make
for guests or special occasions, but it is more than worth the trouble.
- Vegetarian Indian; Husain, Shehzad; JG Press (North Dingham, MA, 1995) ISBN
1-57215-115-3
Someone bought this for me for $3 off a bargain shelf. Next to the above, it
is the best Indian cookbook I have ever used. Near every recipie is golden in
my palate.
As long as I am on the subject, here are some very off topic cookbooks (since
I bet almost none of you cook exclusively Asian food):
- Shoshoni Cookbook, The; Saks, Anne and Faith Stone; The Book Publishing
Company (Summertown, TN, 1993) ISBN 0-913990-49-3
This is a completely vegan book (which I am not). It is also one of the best
cookbooks I have ever seen. I cannot recommend it enough. It is published by
the cooks at the Shoshoni Yoga Retreat Center, and may not be widely available.
You can get a copy from 1-800-695-2241. Meat and Potato types prob. would not
be as impressed as I am.
- Pilaf, Risotto, and other ways with Rice; Fretz, Sada; Little Brown and Co.
(Boston, MA; 1995) ISBN 0-316-29416-0
A rice lover paradise. Very easy receipes, very international.
- Laural's Kitchen Bread Book: A guide to whole grain breadmaking; Robertson,
Laurel, et.al.; Random House (New York, 1984) ISBN 0-394-53700-9
When I went through my major twice-a-week bread making phase, this was the
gem that emerged. Absolute neccessity for any baker, and Ideal starter book
for the aspiring bread maker.
Well I guess that is enough for my rant.
Brian
bbea...@cs.utexas.edu
-
Best:
Derry Sheena Barbo
In article <5i2901$b...@pinky.cs.utexas.edu>, bbea...@cs.utexas.edu (Brian
S. Bearden) wrote:
Derry Barbour replies :
Here in the UK we are blessed with a large Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi
immigrant population - cooking styles range from Gujerati & Punjabi to
Bengali, Goan, Tamil, Maharati, Sindhi, etc.
I suspect that perhaps in US Indian homes they will tend to give you - a
Westerner - the sort of food they think you would like out of politeness.
Not necessarily what they would normally eat themselves - especially
ingredient-wise & spice/heat-wise. (I once knew an Indian Phsycologist who
liked to prepare a paste consisting of about 10 unseeded Green Chillis,
plus the same amount of raw Garlic and just sit there with a spoon till it
was all finished..)
I would put your categories in a different order :
1. Good Indian Homes.
2. Good Indian Cookbooks - written by Indians, NOT Westerners.
3. Good to superb Indian Restaurants firstly of course on the Indian
subcontinent, and then perhaps somewhere like the UK with a large Indian
population.
4. Average Indian Restaurants.
Re : Cookbooks, here is my recommended list of cookbooks to create
fantastic India meals - added advantage of cookbooks is that you can
create meals which you would never get in a Restaurant or perhaps in an
Indian home unless you knew them very well.
BASIC COOKBOOKS :
"Madhur Jaffrey's Indian Cookery" (an excellent "starter" cookbook with no
vegetables included that are not usually available in "Western/European
foodstores).
"Indian Meat & Fish Cookery" by Jack Santa Maria
"Indian Cookery" by Dharamjit Singh
GENERAL REGIONAL COOKBOOKS :
"Flavours of India" by Madhur Jaffrey
"A Taste of India" by Madhur Jaffrey
"Indian Regional Cookery" by Meera Taneja
SPECIALISED REGIONAL COOKBOOKS :
(These cookbooks were printed in India but were bought in a specialist
Indian bookshop in London)
"Chutneys & Pickles of India" by Duru Jagtiani
"Dal Roti" by Vimla Patel (Dals, Rotis,Masalas, etc)
"Malabar Muslim Cookery" by Ummi Abdulla
"Delectable Dishes from Sindh" by Aroona Reejhsinghani
"Delicious Bengali Dishes by A.R.
"Cooking the Punjabi way" by A.R.
"The Art of South Indian Cooking" by A.R.
"Delights from Maharashtra" by A.R.
"100 Easy to make Gujarati Dishes" by Veena Shroff & Vanmala Desai
"100 Easy to make Goan Dishes" by Jennifer Fernandes
Still trying to get a Kashmiri cookbook.....
Here in the UK we also have on our doorstep (London) an area on the
western edge of London called Southall which is literally like being in
Bombay - stacks of Sari shops, Book/Record/Video shops, Restaurants,
Temples, Greengrocers/General food shops selling large sacks of Rice, any
Spice you care to name (at a quarter of the price and three times the
amount than in ordinary High-Street Supermarkets), and a fantastic array
of fresh Indian Vegetables , Herbs & Fruit - most of which I am still
experimenting with.
Re: Other cookbooks. I am a cookbook collecting freak - we have over 250
cookbooks in the house ranging from a Pueblo Indian Cookbook through to
cookbooks on The Caribbean, Latin America, France, Italy, China, Thailand,
Malaysia, Australia, Russia, Germany, Mauritius, Africa, The Middle East,
Persia, Orkney Islands, Suffolk, Lancashire, Wales, Ireland, Scotland,
etc. etc. PLUS articles torn out of newspapers & magazines.
Finally, You asked for some recipes -
Here is a list of some basic Masalas & Sambals which may be of use :
GODA MASALA
3 teaspoons cloves
2 inch stick cinnamon
1 . 5 teaspoons cumin seeds
2 teaspoons black peppercorns
12 teaspoons coriander seeds
0 . 5 teaspoon asafoetida
Dry roast all these ingredients separately till light brown. Grind all
together & bottle.
DHANAJEERA MASALA
4 tablespoons coriander seeds
0 . 25 teaspoon asafoedita
4 tablespoons cumin seeds
1 teaspoon black peppercorns
Dry roast all ingredients separately, grind and bottle.
RASAM MASALA
1 cup dried red chillis
3 tablespoons black peppercorns
1 tablespoon Toor (Tur) dal
3 tablespoons cumin seeds
1 cup coriander seeds
3 tablespoons Chana dal
2 tablespoons turmeric powder
Grind lightly & bottle.
SAMBHAR MASALA
1 . 5 cups dried red chillis
4 tablespoons Chana dal
3 tablespoons turmeric powder
1 . 5 cups coriander seeds
4 tablespoons Toor dal
4 tablespoons black peppercorns
Grind finely & bottle.
SOUTH INDIAN SAMBHAR or MADRAS RASAM 1
4 parts URAD (urhad) dal
4 parts coriander seed
4 parts cumin seed
2 parts black peppercorns
1 part fenugreek seed
Dry fry separately, then grind together. Bottle.
MADRAS RASAM 2
1 part crushed dried curry leaves
1 part black mustard seed
1 part fenugreek seed
1 part cumin seed
6 parts coriander seed
6 parts dried red chillis
1 part black peppercorns
Dry fry separately, then grind together. Bottle.
KASHMIRI GARAM MASALA
4 parts cardamon seed (not husks)
3 parts cumin seed
1 part black peppercorns
0 . 5 stick of cinnamon
1 part cloves
Pinch of nutmeg
Pinch of mace
Grind together & bottle.
* sometimes crushed chillis and salt are added to this with a few drops of
water to make a
paste. Can be used as it is or as a condiment.
GARAM MASALA 1 (Jack Santa Maria)
0 . 5 cup green cardamon seed
1 cup cumin seed
0 . 5 cup cloves
Grind together & bottle
GARAM MASALA 2 (J.S.M.)
3 parts cardamon seed
3 parts cinnamon stick
1 part cloves
1 part cumin seed
Grind together & bottle
GARAM MASALA 3 (J.S.M.)
4 parts black peppercorns
4 parts coriander seed
3 parts cumin seed - or fennel seed
1 part cloves
1 part cardamon seed
1 part cinnamon stick (about 1 inch)
Grind together & bottle
*Dried Bay leaf, nutmeg & mace can also be used in desired proportions.
GARAM MASALA 4 (Madhur Jaffrey)
1 tablespoon cardamon seeds
2 inch stick of cinnamon
1 teaspoon black cumin seeds ( or use ordinary cumin seeds)
1 teaspoon cloves
1 teaspoon black peppercorns
Quarter of a nutmeg
Grind finely & bottle.
GARAM MASALA 5 (Vimla Patil)
10 cloves
4 pieces cinnamon stick
1 tablespoon cumin seeds
Seeds from 10 cardamons
0 . 25 nutmeg
1 tablesopoon black peppercorns
2 tablespoons coriander seeds
Grind together & bottle.
GARAM MASALA 6 (V.P.)
2 tablespoons black peppercorns
25 cloves
25 large pieces cinnamon
25 cardamons (or seeds thereof)
Grind together & bottle
GARAM MASALA 7 (Dharamjit Singh)
6 tablespoons freshly ground black pepper
5 tablespoons freshly ground black cumin seeds
1 . 75 tablespoons freshly ground cinnamon
1 . 5 tablespoons freshly ground cloves
1 tablespoon freshly ground mace
2 . 5 tablespoons freshly ground cardamon seeds
6 tablespoons frshly ground coriander seeds
2 tablespoons ground dried bay leaves
Grind together & bottle.
MYSORE SAMBAR POWDER (Madhur Jaffrey)
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
3 tablespoons coriander seeds
2 x i inch cinnamon sticks broken into small pieces
0 . 5 teaspoon asafoedita
0 . 125 teaspoon whole fenugreek seeds
3 tablespoons whole dried red chillis (less if desired!)
2 tablespoons skinned CHANNA dal
4 tablespoons dessicated, unsweetened coconut
15 - 20 dried curry leaves
Heat 1 tablespoon of oil in a small frying pan. When hot, put in
coriander, cinnamon,
asafeodita, and fenugreek. Stir till coriander seeds turn a shade darker &
emit a roasted
odour. Empty into a bowl. Put red chillis into the same frying pan and
stir and roast them
till they start to darken. Put them in the same bowl. Now put remaining 1
tablespoon oil
into the frying pan and heat. Put in CHANNA dal, stir and fry until it
turns reddish. Remove
dal and put in bowl. Put coconut & curry leaves into the frying pan, and
stir till coconut
turns light brown. Put into the bowl with the other spices and mix.
Let the spices cool, and then grind them altogether fairly finely. Bottle.
(Makes approx 6 fl
oz.)
SAMBAR MASALA 2 (Meera Taneja)
2 oz chilli powder
1 tablespoon CHANNA dal
1 tablespoon URAD dal
1 tablespoon TOOVAR dal (Toor or Arhar dal) * try not to get oily variety
1 tablespoon turmeric powder
2 tablespoons coriander seeds
1 tablespoon cumin seeds
Dry roast the 3 dals, coriander & cumin seeds to a pale golden brown. Mix
and grind with
the other ingredients. Bottle.
BENGALI GARAM MASALA (PANCH PHORAN) 1. (Madhur Jaffrey)
2 teaspoons cumin seeds
2 teaspoons black mustard seeds
2 teaspoons fennel seeds
1 teaspoon Kalonji (Nigella) seeds
0 . 75 teaspoon fenugreek seeds
Grind together & bottle.
PANCH PHORAN 2 (Meera Taneja)
2 oz anise seeds
2 oz kalonji (Nigella) seeds
2 oz fenugreek seeds
2 oz black mustard seeds
2 oz cumin seeds
Grind together & bottle
DHANIA ZEERA - Gujerat (M.T.)
1 lb coriander seeds
4 oz cumin seeds
2 oz whole dried red chillis
Grind together & bottle.
KALA MASALA
4 tablespoons sesame seeds
8 tablespoons dried coconut
1 teaspoon cinnamon
0 . 5 teaspoon Nagkersar (I don't know what this is either - D.)
8 bay leaves
2 tablespoons poppy seeds
8 tablespoons coriander seeds
1 tablespoon cloves
1 tablespoon black peppercorns
10 black cardamons
-
1 teaspoon vegetable oil
Roast cloves, peppercorns, cardamons & cinnamon in just a little oil. Dry
roast all the
other ingredients separately and dry. Grind all together & bottle.
AADOO MIRCH (Gujerati paste - HOT!!!)
4 oz peeled fresh ginger
4 oz green chillis
1 clove garlic
1 teaspoon salt
Grind (Liquidise) all together with a little water if necessary to make a
thick paste.Bottle.
* Keep in fridge, and add no more than 0 . 25 of a teaspoon to various
vegetable dishes.
SPICED SALT
2 lb crushed rock salt or table salt
-
2 oz paprika
1 oz asafoedita
2 oz cumin seeds
2 oz coriander seed
2 oz grey or black salt (? Saltpetre ??)
2 . 5 teaspoons mace powder
1 oz black peppercorns
Grind ingredients together very finely and mix with the salt. The salt
will become more
aromatic if the seasonings are first dry roasted gently in a frying pan -
do not allow spices
to become brown or darken. Can be used when poaching, or rubbed into a
roast during the
last few minutes of cooking: can also be used on steamed vegetables,
salads, and in
preparations made with Yoghurt.
FISH KITCHREE from Mauritius
6 slices fried fish
1 . 5 lbs Basmati rice (half cooked in boiling salted water)
1 lb finely chopped tomatoes
2 large onions chopped finely and fried separately till crisp
2 finely chopped hard boiled eggs for garnish
0 . 5 lb CHANNA dal or red lentils (boiled, but not mushy)
0 . 5 teaspoon powdered cloves
0 . 5 teaspoon cinnamon powder
0 . 25 teaspoon ground cardamon
1 teaspoon ginger/garlic mixture (1 inch cube peeled fresh ginger + 6
peeled cloves of
garlic - liquidised to a thickish paste with a little water)
2 tablespoons chopped coriander leaves
4 tablespoons ghee or vegetable oil
salt
2 slit red or green chillis
Another finely chopped onion
Saffron water
Heat about 3 tablespoons ghee and fry the separate onion till transparent.
Add chopped
tomatoes, cloves, cinnamon and cardamon powder, ginger/garlic mixture and
salt. Cook
till a thick gravy is obtained.
Add fish slices, coriander leaves, and half a glass of water. Stir well,
and simmer till fish
absorbs some of the gravy. Remove from the heat.
Sprinkle the dal or lentils on top, the chillis, quarter glass water, half
of the crisp fried
onions. Put rice on top of this. Now sprinkle the quarter glass of saffron
mixture/water
over the rice. Melt another 2 tablespoons of ghee/oil and pour over rice.
Add remaining
fried onion and chopped boiled eggs.
Cover and cook over a very slow heat or at Mk 4 - 350F in an oven until
rice is tender and
all moisture has evaporated. (Serves 6).
PEANUT POTATOES FROM MAHARASHTRA
4 medium potatoes boiled, left to cool, then peeled and diced
50 grams roasted, skinned and ground peanuts
1 inch cube peeled ginger, minced
1 teaspoon whole cumin seeds
2 tablespoons grated coconut
Handful chopped coriander leaves
1 teaspoon ground cumin seeds
1 tablespoon ground coriander seeds
Half teaspoon Garam Masala
Salt to taste
Chilli powder to taste
Heat 2 tablespoons vegetable oil or ghee, and when hot add ginger, chilli
powder and
whole cumin seeds. When the cumin seeds stop popping and the ginger turns
pinkish, add
the potatoes and fry to a nice red colour. Add salt and all the spices.
Mix thoroughly and
remove from heat. Serve decorated with grated coconut and coriander leaves
.
Have also a Chili Con Carne Recipe if you can't get one down your
way.....;-)
James Kilfiger
> Derry Barbour wrote :
>
>
> I would put your categories in a different order :
>
> 1. Good Indian Homes.
> 2. Good Indian Cookbooks - written by Indians, NOT Westerners.
> 4. Average Indian Restaurants.
You forget temples. I have just had the most wonderful rice and dal
I can remember. On this evidence I'd place the temple above the home.
(sorry mum)