Cats in chinese food
Terry Chan
(Steve Portigal) writes:
+There seems to be this urban legend surrounding Chinese food restaurants
+which supposedly use cat meat in their food. I remember seeing a MAD
+magazine cartoon about "behind the scenes" in the 70s that showed the cook
+going into the alley to get a dead cat.
+
+at any rate, I keep hearing this rumour over and over again. Now it turns
+out that a restaurant in Burlington, Ontario is suffering a 30% loss in
+business because of this rumour. The Board of Health was in to check them
+out, calling this a vicious rumour. No one knows how or why this happening
+of course, but they've desperately invited the Hamilton Tiger-Cats (of the
+CFL) to come for a free buffet....
As you're right to suspect, the use of human remains or animal flesh in
ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend. In _The Choking Doberman_,
JHB notes that it has been attached to Chinese, East Indian, and Italian
cuisines. In that volume, JHB also talks about other variations including
the use of canned dog food on pizzas, "people sausages" (also available
with cat or dog meat), traveller in Greece/Italy/Spain gets bone stuck
in throat: upon extraction found to be a rat bone, etc. In the US, by
far the UL seems to focus around Asian refugees/immigrants. There is
also a copy of a story from the Fairfax, Virginia _Journal_ of a protest
by a humanitarian group against "Oriental residents . . . capturing and
eating--neighborhood pets".
JHB also notes Florence Baer's study of the "Orientals eating dog"
legend in the Stockton, California area which emerged coincident with
the large influx of Vietnamese immigrants to the area in 1980/1981.
She concluded that this UL "seemed to be the folk idea of 'limited
good' that translates into into a typical attitude, 'That the
refugees are consuming--and using up--our share of this world's goods.
If that world is a world of limited good, where there is only so much,
and maybe no more, who can afford to share?"
Personally, I also note that I frequently heard this legend while
living in Hawaii, a predominantly Asian community in reference to
Vietnamese (and other Asian) immigrants. This seems to be an
interesting coincidence with Baer's conclusion.
See _The Choking Doberman_ pp. 118-127 for more information on the
above (and for the quotations).
Terry "Personally, I think cats have too little meat" Chan
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Douglas Mason
on their pizza -- I think every town has SOME place that is accused of
this.
One of the "Current Affair" type newspeople from a local station went
to the garbage bin out back with a camera, live, and opened the top and
their were litereally hundreds of dog food cans inside!
Later, I heard that the manager of the resturant had a dog kennel business
on the side and was trying to avoid expensive commercial garbage service
by using the Pizza Hut bin instead.
To this day (10 years later) the Pizza Hut never full regained composure
over that ordeal!
-DM
--
Douglas Mason dou...@netcom.COM
Software Development and Support dou...@netcom.UUCP
Freestone, Inc. - Redwood City, CA 94063 +1 415.368.0191
John-Marc Chandonia, , ,
Loose" JB took a dog around Little Vietnam in Chicago, trying
to find a restaurant that would cook it. One chef said he wouldn't,
but the place across the street would! But they didn't (probably
due to the cameras following Johnny around).
JMC "Would you wok my dog?"
--
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John-Marc Chandonia | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
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Harvard University | I will not yell fire ...
Phil Gustafson
>As you're right to suspect, the use of human remains or animal flesh in
>ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend.
Yup. According to my mother, a friend of my grandmother's bit into a
tough bit in her chop suey in a long-gone restaurant in Boston. It
was a hunk of human finger, apparently chopped off during preparation
and wokked up by the frugal Asians. The weird thing is, my grandmother
kept going back to the same restaurant for the rest of her life.
Phil "Are you calling my mother a liar?" Gustafson
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| Perform Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty |
Dan Berleant
meat. Meat is meat, right? So why is cat meat gross, but lion meat is
exotic and cow meat is "I like mine so rare it moos"? Clearly, it's
American society that is strange about this, looking at it objectively.
And yes, I understand that in poor areas of the world people will eat
various animals... so what? And here in America we eat the living bodies
of marine animals such as clams. Isn't that weirder than cooking and
eating some generic mammal?
A local Chinese restaurant is unusual in that many of the patrons are
Chinese (think about it - most Chinese restaurants don't have a Chinese
clientele). They have two sets of menus, one for Chinese and one for
non-Chinese. The Chinese menu has "strange" items like jellyfish,
shredded pork ears, etc. My guess is non-Chinese would stop coming if
they got the Chinese menu, and Chinese people would stop coming if they
got the non-Chinese menu. This way, everyone is happy except those few
who know there are two menus and worry that some kind of unfair
discrimination is taking place.
Dan
Terry Chan
[Stuff on the problem w/cat and other meats is w/America and not the
world deleted.]
+A local Chinese restaurant is unusual in that many of the patrons are
+Chinese (think about it - most Chinese restaurants don't have a Chinese
+clientele).
Um...I think this depends on where you are. This may partly be because
of the fact that there are less Chinese around (in the US) in many areas.
Plus, we can eat most of that stuff at home.
+They have two sets of menus, one for Chinese and one for
+non-Chinese. The Chinese menu has "strange" items like jellyfish,
+shredded pork ears, etc. My guess is non-Chinese would stop coming if
+they got the Chinese menu, and Chinese people would stop coming if they
+got the non-Chinese menu. This way, everyone is happy except those few
+who know there are two menus and worry that some kind of unfair
+discrimination is taking place.
This happens in some restaurants. I noticed it more in the Northeast and
other areas less familiar with relatively exotic cooking. Actually,
the real reason they have two menus because if they put all the stuff out
on one, they would lose money because people would be stealing the menus
to have a good laugh and show them to friends :-).
Terry "But have you had pig nose soup?" Chan
Terry Chan
(Phil Gustafson) writes:
+In article <16...@dog.ee.lbl.gov> twc...@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
+>As you're right to suspect, the use of human remains or animal flesh in
+>ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend.
+
+Yup. According to my mother, a friend of my grandmother's bit into a
+tough bit in her chop suey in a long-gone restaurant in Boston. It
+was a hunk of human finger, apparently chopped off during preparation
+and wokked up by the frugal Asians. The weird thing is, my grandmother
+kept going back to the same restaurant for the rest of her life.
Hey, Phil, this is a new one! Usually, in ethnic restaurant stories,
the fingers and stuff are supplied by chefs or other folks with leprosy.
You sure it wasn't in the North End? BTW, what tipped her off? The
fingernail?
+Phil "Are you calling my mother a liar?" Gustafson
Hey, no way! But all the food in Boston tastes alike to me.
Terry "Finger lickin'...OOPS!...good..." Chan
char...@ciit85.ciit.nrc.ca
> I don't know why everyone is so grossed out about feline and canine
> meat. Meat is meat, right? So why is cat meat gross, but lion meat is
>
> Dan
The problem comes from the government, as usual.
A popular urban legend has it that meat has to be inspected
and approved before it can be offered for human consumption.
In Canada, meat inspection is only offered for a very small
subset of animal kingdom. The vast majority of life forms is
either unfit for human diet, or not inspected and approved
for that purpose. That's all.
Commercial ethics also has it that the buyer has a right to
know what he is buying( but caveat emptor). As long as the
food is presented for what it is, and carries a minimum level
of safety, you can serve anything to anybody, including snails,
frogs(their legs), or even live oysters. (YEEEACH)
But as you say, the rest is a simple matter of cultural bias.
Pierre
fielden j.a.
>As you're right to suspect, the use of human remains or animal flesh in
>ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend. In _The Choking Doberman_,
>JHB notes that it has been attached to Chinese, East Indian, and Italian
>cuisines. In that volume, JHB also talks about other variations including
>the use of canned dog food on pizzas, "people sausages" (also available
>with cat or dog meat), traveller in Greece/Italy/Spain gets bone stuck
>in throat: upon extraction found to be a rat bone, etc. In the US, by
>far the UL seems to focus around Asian refugees/immigrants. There is
>also a copy of a story from the Fairfax, Virginia _Journal_ of a protest
>by a humanitarian group against "Oriental residents . . . capturing and
>eating--neighborhood pets".
>
>
>Personally, I also note that I frequently heard this legend while
>living in Hawaii, a predominantly Asian community in reference to
>Vietnamese (and other Asian) immigrants. This seems to be an
>interesting coincidence with Baer's conclusion.
>
>See _The Choking Doberman_ pp. 118-127 for more information on the
>above (and for the quotations).
>
G.I.'s being served dog as dinner stories from when he was in Vietnam.
It's possible that it would only take a comment or two about dietary
practices in Vietnam to start such a rumor. i.e. "You know they eat dog"
becomes "You know they give you dog to eat."
Certainly depending the part of the world various animals are served as
food that aren't here. Cat, dog, horse, whale, and kangaroo are those that
immediately come to mind. Of course some Indians are horrified to find
that we eat beef. Just depends on what your background and perspective is.
me I think I'll stick to barbecued iguana, chocolate covered ants and
fried grasshoppers.
-jf
Leong Heng Cheong
>Chinese (think about it - most Chinese restaurants don't have a Chinese
>clientele).
And that's how we Chinese differentiate between a good and bad restaurant.
A Chinese restaurant with Chinese customer indicates good food. A
Chinese restaurant with mainly "western" customers usually means
that the food is adapted for the (weird) American taste, and is
usually not the same as "real" Chinese food. :-)
>They have two sets of menus, one for Chinese and one for
>non-Chinese. The Chinese menu has "strange" items like jellyfish,
>shredded pork ears, etc. My guess is non-Chinese would stop coming if
>they got the Chinese menu, and Chinese people would stop coming if they
>got the non-Chinese menu. This way, everyone is happy except those few
>who know there are two menus and worry that some kind of unfair
>discrimination is taking place.
Actually, a lot of Chinese restaurants do that. The non-Chinese menu
usually features what my friend call "pseudo-Chinese" food, with
names such as Mu-shu and kung-po -- tailored for the American Taste.
(Just for your information, real kung-po dishes are much more spicy
that what you have at your local Chinese fast-food restaurants. Also,
fortune cookies can only be found in North America.)
Actually, although I've heard that Chinese eat dog meat for my
entire life in Singapore, I've never heard of cat meat being
on a Chinese menu. However, I've heard of Malay (that's pronounced
Mer-lay, not May-lay as NBC pronounced ...) family eating cat meat.
How they cook it is still a complete mystery to me.
Leong, Heng-Cheong
le...@wam.umd.edu
Larry M Headlund
(strange food in restaurants deleted)
>>
> I've never heard the rumor anywhere I've lived but my dad has several
>G.I.'s being served dog as dinner stories from when he was in Vietnam.
>It's possible that it would only take a comment or two about dietary
>practices in Vietnam to start such a rumor. i.e. "You know they eat dog"
>becomes "You know they give you dog to eat."
>
>-jf
This reminds me of the migration of language/customs in armies. I
assume its the career NCO's who do the original transmitting. Examples:
1. Vietnamese eat dog.
Koreans (previous war) eat dog.
2. Gook
Short for Han Gook: Korean for Korean Man
3. Hooch
From Japanese for house.
4. Mamma-san
Japanese used for, shall we say, the manager of an
entertainment facility.
I think that it was John Sack in _M_ who first pointed out that
GI's spoke to Vietnamese in Japanese, Vietnamese to GI's in Japanese, both
under the impression they were speaking the other's native language.
ObUL: The Goodyear Blimp's with bars, etc. were used by S&L's to entertain
literally high rollers.
--
Larry Headlund l...@world.std.com Eikonal Systems (617) 482-3345
Bruce Stein
>>In article <1991Aug9.1...@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>ste...@dgp.toronto.edu
>>
>G.I.'s being served dog as dinner stories from when he was in Vietnam.
>It's possible that it would only take a comment or two about dietary
>practices in Vietnam to start such a rumor. i.e. "You know they eat dog"
>becomes "You know they give you dog to eat."
>
>Certainly depending the part of the world various animals are served as
>food that aren't here. Cat, dog, horse, whale, and kangaroo are those that
>immediately come to mind. Of course some Indians are horrified to find
>that we eat beef. Just depends on what your background and perspective is.
>
>me I think I'll stick to barbecued iguana, chocolate covered ants and
>fried grasshoppers.
>
>-jf
I would like to add a note to confirm the eating of dog meat in the
Phillipines. I was stationed there in the early 70's and attended many
functions held in the local community. One such was a wedding of a sailor
to a local woman. After the wedding I was asked if I had tried the dog meat
served at the feast. I responded negatively, and was I informed that the "adobo"
was infact the family dog that had bitten one of the children the day before,
and to protect the child from getting ill, the dog was killed. Dog meat being
considered a delicacy, it was served for the feast after the wedding.
I was not replused by the fact that I had eaten dog unknowingly since
it was not my pet that had been consumed, instead I was intrigued by the
flavour. When I had occasion to have a large party later I naturally thought
of serving local foods. My girl friend's uncle traveled to Angeles City near
Clark Air Base to a dog ranch to get a "ranch bred" dog to serve. I had him
prepair it and served it to my friends with their full knowledge of what it
was before eating it. Most of them had the same feelings on the matter...
meat is meat.
I people say "but dogs are pets", have any of you ever watched a 4-H kid
call his steer, pig, lamb etc. and talk to it as they groomed it in preperation
for competition. They appear to be more like pets than just food. Also watch
some of them as the amimal is sold to some wealthy person or resteraunt to serve
the "grand champion" as steaks. Yes I know that many may be kept for breeding,
but since a steer is casterated just before sexual maturity, I presume he will
be beef before too much time has passed.
I do not presume anyone has served dog to me here but if I was informed
it was on the menu I might order it again on purpose.
Bruce
These are only my words not my employers ( but you knew that didn't you?)
Sue Klefstad
>Actually, although I've heard that Chinese eat dog meat for my
>entire life in Singapore, I've never heard of cat meat being
>on a Chinese menu.
Could it be because cats "serve a purpose" in catching mice?
-- Sue
--
Sue Klefstad Ill. Natural History Survey s-kle...@uiuc.edu
River Liver
Cindy Kandolf
-Cindy Kandolf
ci...@solan.unit.no
Trondheim, Norway
Jack Campin
> ...although I've heard that Chinese eat dog meat for my entire life in
> Singapore, I've never heard of cat meat being on a Chinese menu. However,
> still a complete mystery to me.
My grandma from Yorkshire used to refer to cats as "Scotch hare", which
suggests one way to do it.
As far as I know the Scots haven't made up any ULs in return about the
English eating strange things.
There is even supposed to be a quote from Mao Tse-Tung that "self-criticism
is like eating dog: you'll never know how good it is till you try it". This
isn't in any of the Mao I've read and I forget where I heard it.
--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6854 work 041 556 1878 home
JANET: ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: ja...@glasgow.uucp
Rich Greenberg
>And that's how we Chinese differentiate between a good and bad restaurant.
>A Chinese restaurant with Chinese customer indicates good food. A
>Chinese restaurant with mainly "western" customers usually means
>that the food is adapted for the (weird) American taste, and is
>usually not the same as "real" Chinese food. :-)
Quite true... I find that in the Chinese restaurants that I enjoy eating
in the most, I and whomever I am with are often the only lo fans (sp?)
in the place and the food is great.
My personal test of a Chinees restaurant is that when you sit down, there
are chopsticks on the table and you must ask for a fork (I don't).
--
Disclaimer: The above writings are the ramblings of one human being
and have nothing what-so-ever to do with Locus Computing Corp.
---> Rich Greenberg, ri...@locus.com TinsleTown, USA 213-337-5904
Located in Inglewood, Ca, a small city completely contained within Los Angeles
snopes
In article <27...@dice.la.locus.com>,
ri...@locus.com (Rich Greenberg) writes...
>My personal test of a Chinees restaurant is that when you sit down, there
>are chopsticks on the table and you must ask for a fork (I don't).
You end up with chopsticks either way -- if you ask for a fork, they
invariably bring you a Coke. The only way to get a fork is to order a Coke;
you can then eat your food, but you end up having to drink water.
- snopes
ObSIF: Each instance of dog excrement not scooped up eventually yields, on
the average, 144 flies.
+--------------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
| NOTE: No part of this signature may be reproduced, stored in, or introduced
| into a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means
| (electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise) without prior
| written permission, except in the case of brief quotations embodied in
| critical articles and reviews. <mikk...@breakr.enet.dec.com>
| * David Mikkelson Digital Equipment Corporation, Culver City, CA USA *
+--------------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
Terry Chan
(snopes) writes:
+In article <27...@dice.la.locus.com>,
+ ri...@locus.com (Rich Greenberg) writes...
+
+>My personal test of a Chinees restaurant is that when you sit down, there
+>are chopsticks on the table and you must ask for a fork (I don't).
+
+You end up with chopsticks either way -- if you ask for a fork, they
+invariably bring you a Coke. The only way to get a fork is to order a Coke;
+you can then eat your food, but you end up having to drink water.
And don't forget, the other way to order a Coke is to order a "wax tadpole".
+- snopes
+
+ObSIF: Each instance of dog excrement not scooped up eventually yields, on
+ the average, 144 flies.
And two slipped disks.
Terry "Think globally, eat locally" Chan
Phil Gustafson
>le...@wam.umd.edu (Leong Heng Cheong) writes:
>
>>Actually, although I've heard that Chinese eat dog meat for my
>>entire life in Singapore, I've never heard of cat meat being
>>on a Chinese menu.
>
>Could it be because cats "serve a purpose" in catching mice?
I have heard of a dish poetically called "Lion, Dragon, and Pheonix".
Since two of the ingredients are mythical and the other one bites, they
actually use cat, chicken, and snake.
Phil "Grasshoppers are Kosher! See Lev. 11, 21-22" Gustafson
John Gateley
ri...@locus.com (Rich Greenberg) writes...
>My personal test of a Chinees restaurant is that when you sit down, there
>are chopsticks on the table and you must ask for a fork (I don't).
You end up with chopsticks either way -- if you ask for a fork, they
invariably bring you a Coke. The only way to get a fork is to order a Coke;
you can then eat your food, but you end up having to drink water.
I ordered a fork and a coke once, turns out this is chinese for "Cook
my dog with seaweed and sea cucumbers".
John "Poor spot, but he tasted good" gat...@rice.edu
--
"I've thought the thoughts of little children and the thoughts of men
I've thought the thoughts of stupid people who have never been
so much in love as they should be and got confused too easily
to fall in love again." The Residents and Renaldo and the Loaf
Robert A. Levene
ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG writes:
> Phil "Grasshoppers are Kosher! See Lev. 11, 21-22" Gustafson
Sorry to disappoint you, Phil, but you're not going to find
chocolate-covered locusts/grasshoppers at your local kosher
supermarket. The problem is that we're not sure *which* *types*
of locusts are permitted, so nearly all Jews who keep kosher
avoid insects altogether.
First of all, the only permitted locusts would have wings which cover
their entire bodies. This eliminates crickets. Also, only the types
of locusts which swarm would be permitted, so this rules out most
grasshoppers, which tend to live separately.
However, according to Yemenite Jewish tradition, a small but ancient
culture found in Yemen and Israel today, some types of locusts are
permitted:
* Red locust (Hebrew: 'arbeh' Arabic: 'grad') - also known
as the Sudanese or desert locust (Scistocerca gregaria),
which swarms to Israel now and then.
* Yellow locust (Hebrew: 'Sal'am' Arabic: 'dabai')
* Spotted grey locust (Hebrew: 'Chargol' Arabic: 'chartziyiya') -
some identify this with the long-horned grasshopper (tettigonidae).
The King James Bible incorrectly translates 'chargol' as 'cricket.'
* White locust (Hebrew: "Chagav' Arabic: 'gandav')
Source: Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (of blessed memory), _The Living Torah_,
commenting on Lev. 11:20-23 on page 551.
Not being of Yemenite background, I have never personally eaten insects,
although if the permitted types were someday known beyond a shadow of
a doubt, they might make interesting hors d'ouvres (sp?).
Sorry for injecting some facts into this newsgroup...
--
Robert A. Levene \ I am the sole legitimate representative
"/ // / /" \ and policy maker for my race, culture,
Bitnet: RX...@APLVM.BITNET \ country, religion, political party
Internet: lev...@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu \ employer, and extended family. So there.
J.D. Baldwin
>entire life in Singapore, I've never heard of cat meat being
>on a Chinese menu. However, I've heard of Malay (that's pronounced
>Mer-lay, not May-lay as NBC pronounced ...) family eating cat meat.
>How they cook it is still a complete mystery to me.
I was offered, ordered and was served dog meat in a stew during a visit
to Guangzhou (Canton), China a couple of years back. It was delicious--
sort of like a tangy beef. My "guide" informed me that pets were not
allowed in Chinese cities for some reason (health and sanitation?) but
that there wouldn't be any anyway because all the dogs *and cats* would be
eaten. I never saw any evidence other than his statement that cats were
eaten in China.
In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, I was told that cats were sometimes, but not
commonly, eaten. I know of at least one family that kept cats as pets
and I frequently saw cats roaming the streets unmolested. As Malaysia is
a Muslim country, most of the residents would sooner eat pork than dog--
that is to say, not at all!
--
From the catapult of: |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
_,_ J. D. Baldwin, Comp Sci Dept|+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
_|70|___:::)=}- U.S. Naval Academy|+| retract it, but also to deny under
\ / bal...@usna.navy.mil |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry M Headlund
has a Norwegian menu. I never ate there around Christmas but
"It could have happened"
ObUL: A Diet UL
A FOAF told me about this little shop in New York City that sold low
fat and low calorie milk shakes. They were delicious and people loved to buy
them. All that flavor and no guilt!
Unfortunately, it was discovered (don't ask me how) that they were
in fact super-rich normal milkshakes that were just advertised as low fat and
lo-cal.
I assume the owner had to be rescued from an enraged (and chubby) mob.
Stephen Webb
>
>A local Chinese restaurant is unusual in that many of the patrons are
>Chinese (think about it - most Chinese restaurants don't have a Chinese
>clientele). They have two sets of menus, one for Chinese and one for
>non-Chinese. The Chinese menu has "strange" items like jellyfish,
>shredded pork ears, etc. My guess is non-Chinese would stop coming if
>they got the Chinese menu, and Chinese people would stop coming if they
>got the non-Chinese menu. This way, everyone is happy except those few
>who know there are two menus and worry that some kind of unfair
>discrimination is taking place.
>
Perhaps our culture here differs from yours there. There are a lot of chinese
(or other ethnic) retaurants where nnot only are there a lot of non-white
patrons, but they don't even HAVE english menus. They're even more popular.
Go do dum-sum on a Sunday and you'll see the yuppies ordering stewed chicken
feet and sea-slug slices right beside the Chinese patron wolfing down stcky
rice wrapped in banana leaves. Nobody here eats egg rolls and sweet-and-sour
spare ribs anymore. If it isn't 5-volcano hot or stuffed with readily
identifiable visceral organs, forget it.
I'm just waiting for the sushi home-delivery market to grow. Guaranteed cold,
30 minutes or free. Dial 555-FISH.
_______
Stephen M. Webb "Artichokes"
ba...@vax.oxford.ac.uk
friend of mine is an anthropologist who works in West africa. From a
recent trip he brought back a cookery book produced in a (name deleted)
Francophone country. It is arranged by ingredient and has a couple of
recipes under the heading `dog' (well, `chien' actually). Both are of the
`cut it into bits, fry in oil, add chopped veg and stew' type. Under
the heading `cat' it says `see dog'. It also has some python recipes
too.
Marcus Banks, OxVax
Leong Heng Cheong
>It also has some python recipes
>too.
>
In the Singapore's Army Training, which is in Southeast asia, part of the
field camp involve a course on how to cook phythons and other fun animals
you can catch in a tropical rainforest.
Leong, Heng-Cheong
le...@wam.umd.edu
Brent L. Woods
Okay. That's it. I've heard the name too many times now, and I
just have to know: what *is* "lutefisk," anyway. I've never heard of
the stuff (at least, not until I started reading alt.folklore.urban),
and I have a curiosity bump that would flummox a feline... ;-)
Please, someone, enlighten me.
--
Brent Woods
INTERNET: woo...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL: 4419 Myrtle Grove Dr. / Indianapolis, IN 46236
PHONE: +1 (317) 895-8690 (voice)
gr...@mwk.uucp
> In article <15...@ai.cs.utexas.edu>, berl...@cs.utexas.edu (Dan Berleant) writes:
>> I don't know why everyone is so grossed out about feline and canine
>> meat. Meat is meat, right? So why is cat meat gross, but lion meat is
> ....
>>
>> Dan
>
.
.
>
> But as you say, the rest is a simple matter of cultural bias.
>
> Pierre
Agreed.
Is there a UL of this sort current regarding Indian restaurants? I'm curious,
since the earliest story of felines being served to the unsuspecting that I am
aware of is Phileas Fogg's complaint about the "rabbit" he was served in
Bombay.
On a related subject, is there any substantiation available of the rumors
that dog pounds in some areas with large populations of recent Oriental
immigrants have found it necessary to restrict the number of dogs which can be
adopted by a single individual or family because some of these immigrants found
it economically advantageous to adopt canines from the pound rather than
purchase hamburger?
Given the pet population problem (locally, an ordinance was recently
considered to charge large license fees for unneutered animals), maybe we
should encourage a change in cultures? I can see the ads now: "Try a
chihuahua today -- the convenient single-serving dog!"
ObUL: Jeffrey Dahmer was taking a correspondence course in Chinese cookery.
His defense will be that he was merely doing his homework.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Greer (gr...@mwk.uucp)| This stuff springs entirely from my own mind, and is
M. W. Kellogg | neither endorsed by nor known to my employer, the
601 Jefferson Ave. | U. S. government, the Vogon Poetry Appreciation
P. O. Box 4557 | Society, or any other entity wise enough to avoid
Houston, TX 77210-4457 | reading it.
Cindy Kandolf
How about: it's seldom fatal.
Lutefisk is... the squeemish better skip ahead now.... lutefisk is dried
fish brought back to something resembling fish, or rather fish jello,
by soaking it in a weak lye and water solution for a few days, then
in clear water for a few more, then poached until quivering. Usually
served with lots of melted butter, beer, and a strong liquor called
akavit (presumably to deaden the senses of smell and taste).
Some norskies love it, especially around christmas. The stuff you find
being served now, though, can be bought in a supermarket ready to poach,
the sitr
dirty work presumably having been done in a well-bventilated factory
somewhere.
Plkease forgive the typos, my computer is having a revolt.
-Cindy nKandolf
ci...@solan.unit.no
Trondheim, Norway
snopes
In article <1991Aug15.160700*ci...@solan.unit.no>,
ci...@solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf) writes...
> Trondheim, Norway
Do they print the "Hagar the Horrible" comic strip in Norway? They mentioned
Trondheim in one of last week's strips.
- snopes
john r douglas x6668
Take an old dead fish, soak it in lye for about a week,
nail it to a board and cure in the sun for another week,
strip the resulting mass from the board. Then eat the board.
Almost as discusting as a haggis.
John "Ever had Haggis stuffed with Lutefisk" Douglas
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
* * To find the cost of a *
* John Douglas * dozen when the price of *
* Arden Hills, MN * 1 is given. Reduce the *
* Control Data Corp. * price given to pence and *
* * a fraction of a penny, *
* * and call the result *
* * shillings and fraction *
* * of a schilling. *
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
* Does anyone, besides Hal Painter, know how *
* to make indestructible skis from ferrocement? *
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
Brian Scearce
> [Lutefisk is] usually served with [...] a strong liquor called
> akavit
And just to forestall any questions on akavit, it's a strange
liqueur flavoured with caraway seeds (judging by the taste) and
served very cold. It's like drinking a piece of frozen rye bread.
Brian "Norway am I drinking *that*" Scearce
--
Brian Scearce (b...@robin.svl.cdc.com -or- robin!b...@shamash.cdc.com)
I'm thinking about a Silicon Valley WATPUB. Am I the only one here?
Any opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect CDC corporate policy.
Sue Klefstad
> On a related subject, is there any substantiation available of the rumors
>that dog pounds in some areas with large populations of recent Oriental
>immigrants have found it necessary to restrict the number of dogs which can be
>adopted by a single individual or family because some of these immigrants found
>it economically advantageous to adopt canines from the pound rather than
>purchase hamburger?
A DOAF (daughter of a friend) worked in the local Humane Society.
Someone from Hawaii came in and was reading the adoption rules posted
on the wall. He was surprised at the omission of one rule
that he said was stated in Hawaii: Eating the adopted pets
is not allowed.
Richard Joltes
>>Bruce Stein writes:
>> I would like to add a note to confirm the eating of dog meat in the
>>Phillipines. [...] I was asked if I had tried the dog meat served at the
>>feast. I responded negatively, and was I informed that the "adobo"
>>was infact the family dog that had bitten one of the children the day before,
>>and to protect the child from getting ill, the dog was killed. Dog meat being
>>considered a delicacy, it was served for the feast after the wedding.
>
>This is not very likely. They were probably teasing you. And as for the
>explanation of choosing a pet, and why they chose it, they were compounding
>the teasing.
>--
>Norman Diamond dia...@tkov50.enet.dec.com
Well, I can't say anything about the particular incident cited above, but dog
meat is "big business" in the Philippines, or was a few years back. I've
received several appeals from a "friends of animals" type organization showing
photos of dogs trussed up awaiting execution so they could be served at table.
Said organization wrote that although the practice had been suppressed for
awhile, it grew again during the turmoil following Marcos' ouster.
Supposedly there are real, abeit underground, companies that specialize in
selling the stuff.
Since I've owned dogs and cats (or is it the other way around) since I was a
kid, the photos the group included made me wanna suit up in my BDUs and go kick
some butt...probably a dumb response, but seeing an animal abused really makes
me angry...
Can anyone else confirm this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dick Joltes jol...@husc.harvard.edu
Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services jol...@husc.bitnet
Harvard University Science Center
"Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some
sheep's testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..."
Cindy Kandolf
(actually "H}rek", but i still remember what happened the LAST time i tried
to put the real letter in). It's a few weeks behind the US, as i remember...
translation and who knows what all else... but i'll be looking to see if
one mentioning Trondheim comes up soon! 8-)
Thanks for the tip, snopes!
-Cindy Kandolf
ci...@solan.unit.no
Trondheim/Trondhjem/Nidaros/heckwithit, Norway
Norman Diamond
> I would like to add a note to confirm the eating of dog meat in the
>feast. I responded negatively, and was I informed that the "adobo"
>was infact the family dog that had bitten one of the children the day before,
>and to protect the child from getting ill, the dog was killed. Dog meat being
>considered a delicacy, it was served for the feast after the wedding.
This is not very likely. They were probably teasing you. And as for the
explanation of choosing a pet, and why they chose it, they were compounding
the teasing.
--
Norman Diamond dia...@tkov50.enet.dec.com
If this were the company's opinion, I wouldn't be allowed to post it.
signature, n.: acm special interest group on studies of the real world.
Rick Kelly
>In article <1991Aug12....@colorado.edu> fie...@spot.Colorado.EDU (fielden j.a.) writes:
>>>
>> I've never heard the rumor anywhere I've lived but my dad has several
>>G.I.'s being served dog as dinner stories from when he was in Vietnam.
>>It's possible that it would only take a comment or two about dietary
>>practices in Vietnam to start such a rumor. i.e. "You know they eat dog"
>>becomes "You know they give you dog to eat."
>>
>>-jf
>
> This reminds me of the migration of language/customs in armies. I
>assume its the career NCO's who do the original transmitting. Examples:
> 1. Vietnamese eat dog.
> Koreans (previous war) eat dog.
Koreans do eat dogs. I read several articles, during the Seoul Olympics,
on how they ordered the restaurants that served dog to close down for the
duration. It is mainly served as soup or a hot sandwich. Koreans keep dogs
as pets, however they are a different breed from that which is used as food.
A Chinese friend of mine told me of an old wives tale that said that eating
dog during the winter would protect against colds and pneumonia.
Rick Kelly r...@rmkhome.UUCP frog!rmkhome!rmk r...@frog.UUCP
Terry Chan
+In article <1991Aug13....@world.std.com> l...@world.std.com (Larry
M Headlund) writes:
+>In article <1991Aug12....@colorado.edu> fie...@spot.Colorado.EDU
(fielden j.a.) writes:
[Stuff on dog eating in various places ending up in Korea deleted.]
+Koreans do eat dogs. I read several articles, during the Seoul Olympics,
+on how they ordered the restaurants that served dog to close down for the
+duration. It is mainly served as soup or a hot sandwich. Koreans keep dogs
+as pets, however they are a different breed from that which is used as food.
That's a good idea, wouldn't want to eat Rover or Kim or whoever.
+A Chinese friend of mine told me of an old wives tale that said that eating
+dog during the winter would protect against colds and pneumonia.
I've heard this too. It's more fun to see the various animals consumed
by folks because of the notion that eating them will imbue one with that
quality or eating part of an animal to obtain that quality (e.g., eating
brains to be smarter. There's some technical term for this which I'm sure
someone will regurgitate in due course). There are several I recall in
Chinese culture as I recall eating cow brains "because it'll make you
smarter" (and my brother had to eat more because his grades were lower).
One of the more noted items is relating to snakes. Consumption of snake
meat and drinking of the blood helps to ward off or deal with rheumatism.
Thus snake is consumed in areas such as Hong Kong though I've found it much
more readily available in the "snake alley" section of Taipei in Taiwan.
Quite a fun spot (although you should check it out in the winter because
that's when snake consumptions hits a peak).
Then again, people eat sea slugs, I don't think it's because they want
move more slowly. There's also the consumption of various male sex
organs also (deer, tiger, etc.) for . . . ah . . . performance enhancement
purposes. No doubt about it, food is a fascinating topic.
Another food-related UL: spinach contains lots of iron relative to other
foods. Actually, it contains not much more than other similar leafy
green vegetables. An early scientific report published in a journal
accidentally misplaced a decimal point and it's come down as folklore
ever since.
Terry "The Part of the Michelin Guide You DON'T Hear About" Chan
Stephanie da Silva
> gr...@mwk.uucp writes:
>
> >Is there any substantiation available of the rumors that dog pounds in
> >it necessary to restrict the number of dogs which can be adopted by a
> >to adopt canines from the pound rather than purchase hamburger?
>
> Hawaii: Eating the adopted pets is not allowed.
The story I heard re: recent Oriental immigrants were the ones who upset
the local populace when they set traps in the city parks and caught
pigeons and squirrels and took them home for dinner.
They were consequently informed that this was a definite no-no.
--
Stephanie da Silva Taronga Park * Houston, Texas
ari...@taronga.hackercorp.com 568-0480 568-1032
Cindy Kandolf
YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This one is far worse than kitty cats. Not that these critters are so "cute".
I don't think even the most dedicated animal-lover finds anything "cute"
about pigeons. Well, okay, maybe the little old ladies with their bags of
stale breadcrumbs, but they're lonesome, right? But back to the point -
These things live in dirty conditions all the time. They swallow up
anything tossed at them, they don't care what it is. Wouldn't these suckers
be full of all sorts of nasties? And with all the stray dogs and cats around,
maybe even real nasty junk like rabies or distemper or something....
Gerg. If that was the choice, i'd do without meat, thanks 8-)
-Cindy "latent food paranoid" Kandolf
ci...@solan.unit.no
Trondheim, Norway
"Help keep rabies out of Norway. Tourist pets will be siezed at the border."
ObSheesh.
Larry M Headlund
>In article <1991Aug15.1...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, klef...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Sue Klefstad) writes:
>> gr...@mwk.uucp writes:
>>
>
>The story I heard re: recent Oriental immigrants were the ones who upset
>the local populace when they set traps in the city parks and caught
>pigeons and squirrels and took them home for dinner.
>They were consequently informed that this was a definite no-no.
>--
>Stephanie da Silva Taronga Park * Houston, Texas
immigrations in the early eighties.
ObUL: Norwegians don't take a bath for the six weeks before Christmas
because the lutefisk is soaking in the bathtub.
(My _Swedish_ grandfather wouldn't fib about a thing like that,
would he?)
Now that the civilized world has been informed about the nature of
lutefisk, shall we tell them about rotfisk? (but I digress)
John Wichers
>Yup. According to my mother, a friend of my grandmother's bit into a
>tough bit in her chop suey in a long-gone restaurant in Boston. It
>was a hunk of human finger, apparently chopped off during preparation
>and wokked up by the frugal Asians. The weird thing is, my grandmother
>kept going back to the same restaurant for the rest of her life.
Really? I'd never go back to any place where they gave me the finger...
=8^)
--John "I think I ate there" Wichers
--
Her eyes were cold and || John Wichers || wic...@husc4.harvard.edu
harsh, which made them || 121 Museum St #2, Somerville Ma. 02143
tough to chew. - Danno || Anarchy - It's not a law, it's just a good idea.
|| Jesus saves sinners ... and redeems them for valuable cash prizes!!! ||
John Wichers
> literally high rollers.
I haven't heard that one yet, although I did hear from a FOAF that you could
rent the Goodyear blimp(s) for private functions. I know for a fact that you
can buy advertising space on the display...
This is related to Larry's comment: I read that when the US invaded
Panama the soldiers discovered a bordello that took up a whole floor of
a bank building. It turned out that the place was owned/operated by
BCCI to 'entertain' businessmen and others who were thinking of depositing
large sums of money.
They also discovered that such things are not uncommon. Fr'instance, they
found evidence of at least one in the Southwest (Arizona?).
One wonders if the bankers supplemented their wages with a little blackmail
on the side. From what you read of BCCI, it wouldn't beyond the realm of
possibility. (And, of course, if it *could* have happened... =8^)
--John "substantial penalty for early withdrawl" Wichers
John Wichers
>Since I've owned dogs and cats (or is it the other way around) since I was a
>kid, the photos the group included made me wanna suit up in my BDUs and go kick
>some butt...probably a dumb response, but seeing an animal abused really makes
>me angry...
>
>Can anyone else confirm this?
Yes, I can confirm this. DJ *does*, in fact, get angry when he sees an
animal get abused... =8^)
--John "thank God I'm quitting this job" Wichers
Rev Dr Phil Herring BMath DD (Ret)
In article <1991Aug16....@tkou02.jit.dec.com>
dia...@jit533.jit.dec.com (Norman Diamond) writes:
> In article <1991Aug13....@erg.sri.com> st...@erg.sri.com
> (Bruce Stein) writes:
> > I would like to add a note to confirm the eating of dog meat in the
> >Phillipines. [...] I was asked if I had tried the dog meat served at the
> >feast. I responded negatively, and was I informed that the "adobo"
> >was infact the family dog [...]
In Tagalog, "dog" is "aso". Maybe "adabo" means "bitch".
> This is not very likely. They were probably teasing you. And as for the
> explanation of choosing a pet, and why they chose it, they were compounding
> the teasing.
P J O'Rourke had a piece on the Phillipines in "Holidays in Hell" that
mentioned his eating stewed dog at a roadside stall in the country. He
said it tasted good.
"I read it in a book, so it must be true."
-- Phil.
Jon Pastor
> ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend.
> ...
> JHB also notes Florence Baer's study of the "Orientals eating dog"
> legend in the Stockton, California area which emerged coincident with
> the large influx of Vietnamese immigrants to the area in 1980/1981.
> She concluded that this UL "seemed to be the folk idea of 'limited
> good' that translates into into a typical attitude, 'That the
> refugees are consuming--and using up--our share of this world's goods.
> If that world is a world of limited good, where there is only so much,
> and maybe no more, who can afford to share?"
Perhaps the UL about exotic meats in Chinese food in the U.S. has something to
do with the fact that other cultures do, in fact, consider delicacies foods
which turn our stomachs -- and vice versa?
You might want to dig out the July 29, 1991 issue of Newsweek and turn to
p. 35. There is an article on some of the more unusual meats used in Chinese
restaurants _IN_CHINA_, with a first-person review of some of them by Melinda
Liu. There is also a photo of what looks an awful lot like a couple of
skinned dogs hanging in a marketplace, and the caption describes them as such.
Perhaps the photo was faked, and Melinda Liu is actually a desk-bound editor in Manhattan named Murray Lewis, but otherwise I guess there might just be
some truth to the UL...?
> Terry "Personally, I think cats have too little meat" Chan
Jon "Personally, I'm sick of cutesy sayings inside names, aren't you?" Pastor
Terry Chan
(Stephanie da Silva) writes:
[Stuff on Asians (sorry to inject some politically correct terminology
into this thread) and dog pounds deleted.]
+The story I heard re: recent Oriental immigrants were the ones who upset
+the local populace when they set traps in the city parks and caught
+pigeons and squirrels and took them home for dinner.
+They were consequently informed that this was a definite no-no.
This reminds me of an amusing story which supposedly happened to a
relative of mine several years ago. She and her husband lived in Hawaii
and worked in the days. One day, a friend's mother immigrated (from
Hong Kong) and made arrangements for her to stay with my relative for a
while. She was an older woman who didn't have much of anything to do
during the day so she just kind of hung out.
One day my relative came home and the friend had a very pleased expression
on her face and proceeded to show her that she had prepared dinner for
that evening and it was a nice fine looking pidgeon. Since this woman
didn't speak any English and couldn't get around on public transit or
anything, my relative asked her where did she get the pidgeon? She
said she trapped them nearby with a box and string contraption and then
proceeded to show her a freezer full of cleaned and dressed pidgeons.
My relative then proceeded to explain the difference between pidgeons
raised for eating and those suckers infesting urban locales. Or that's
what *I* was told (from another relative who heard it from another relative).
BTW, pidgeon (the ones bred for eating) are excellent!
Terry "Catching pidgeons: that's duck soup!" Chan
vol...@ucsco.ucsc.edu
Canton. He sat down in our living room and our cat ran over from the other side
of the room and attacked him, giving him a small bite before running away. I
thought this was quite strange as the cat usually is very nice to strangers.
Our doctor friend was also surprised. I jokingly said that maybe the cat didn't
like chinese people because they eat cats. Our friend said that this was true
but only in Canton. He said cats were regularly eaten, but that dog was a more
common delicacy. He then went on to tell us the UL about the people who come to
a Chinese rfestraunt with their dog. They point to the dog trying to
communicate to the waiter that they want some food for the dog. eventually the
waiter nods and leads the dog off. The dog is gone for a long time, but
eventually dinner arrives for the guests. When the cover is removed there is
their dog all roasted up and ready to eat. Our Chinese friend swore that he had
seen this happen! (uh huh, maybe our cat has some brains after all).
Gary Tse
|He then went on to tell us the UL about the people who come to
|a Chinese rfestraunt with their dog. They point to the dog trying to
|communicate to the waiter that they want some food for the dog. eventually the
|waiter nods and leads the dog off. The dog is gone for a long time, but
|eventually dinner arrives for the guests. When the cover is removed there is
|their dog all roasted up and ready to eat. Our Chinese friend swore that he had
|seen this happen! (uh huh, maybe our cat has some brains after all).
This seems unlikely. Dog is used as a stew meat. I don't know that it's
ever roasted and served whole.
--
Gary Tse t...@pa.dec.com || t...@soda.berkeley.edu (415) 617-3106
Farshid Guilak
>He then went on to tell us the UL about the people who come to
>a Chinese rfestraunt with their dog. They point to the dog trying to
>communicate to the waiter that they want some food for the dog. eventually the
>waiter nods and leads the dog off. The dog is gone for a long time, but
>eventually dinner arrives for the guests. When the cover is removed there is
>their dog all roasted up and ready to eat.
I can't believe you posted this story! You just beat me to it. (Hmmph! :^)
Well, anyway, there is a reference for this. If you check in the inside
of the album cover for Jethro Tull's _Thick_as_a_Brick_, this story is
printed up as a psuedo news paper article. I haven't looked at it for
a couple of years, but I think it was supposed to happen in Vietnam. I'll
check tonight.
Farsh
Terry Chan
writes:
[This is a quote from an earlier post of mine.]
+> As you're right to suspect, the use of human remains or animal flesh in
+> ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend.
+> ...
+> JHB also notes Florence Baer's study of the "Orientals eating dog"
+> legend in the Stockton, California area which emerged coincident with
+> the large influx of Vietnamese immigrants to the area in 1980/1981.
+> She concluded that this UL "seemed to be the folk idea of 'limited
+> good' that translates into into a typical attitude, 'That the
+> refugees are consuming--and using up--our share of this world's goods.
+> If that world is a world of limited good, where there is only so much,
+> and maybe no more, who can afford to share?"
[Jon's comments follow]
+Perhaps the UL about exotic meats in Chinese food in the US has something to
+do with the fact that other cultures do, in fact, consider delicacies foods
+which turn our stomachs -- and vice versa?
Oh, I expect that just might play a role in the idea that gave rise to
the UL. But did all the rumored incidents of people snatching pets in
various locales actually happen in the US as reported? Did Italians (and
other ethnic cuisines) serve stews made with human flesh from lepers as
rumored in the past? No, probably not. Could it have happened? Sure.
Is there a distinction that can be and should made between habits that
people may have and ascribe to them blame for incidents that may or may
not have happened? I like to think so.
+You might want to dig out the July 29, 1991 issue of Newsweek and turn to
+p. 35. There is an article on some of the more unusual meats used in Chinese
+restaurants _IN_CHINA_, with a first-person review of some of them by Melinda
+Liu. There is also a photo of what looks an awful lot like a couple of
+skinned dogs hanging in a marketplace,and the caption describes them as such.
Uh, excuse me for asking, but so what? Sure, people eat jaguar embryos,
bear's paws, duck's tongues and the like (e.g., my father, and myself to
a lesser degree and no, not all of the preceding). I don't think I would
take very kindly to someone agitating for legal action or spreading rumors
about me because someone's pet guinea pig is missing its tail or someone's
duck can't quack, etc. But hey, let's move on the specifc issue you raise.
Indeed, I would expect that many ULs arise because we "know" (or at least
we think we know) that there are other "kinds" of people out there who
are, shall we say, different. Frequently, the fear of dealing with the
less well known and the exotic give rise to caricatures of those people.
ULs are one method of transmitting that type of information to others.
I feel that the actual dietary differences in the _Newsweek_ article you
refer to support my conclusions, though I have my reservations on _Newsweek_
as a source. Sort of like, "We know they are different over there, thus
folks who somehow appear similar here must be like this little ol' UL here."
This strikes me with perhaps the similar type of irony that Jan Harold
Brunvand notes in regards to the proliferation of news media (gathering and
reporting in all its myriad forms) aiding and spreading ULs rather than
reducing their belief.
The relationship of certain kinds of ULs to real life events is fascinating.
+Perhaps the photo was faked, and Melinda Liu is actually a desk-bound editor
+in Manhattan named Murray Lewis, but otherwise I guess there might just be
+some truth to the UL...?
Sure, it's possible (recall the _Washington Post_ reporter who was nailed
after being nominated and/or winning a Pulitzer prize for her story on
drug abuse in kids, but no, that doesn't mean that it has happened IN THIS
INSTANCE. Many times photos don't have to be faked, their resolution and
detail frequently leave much to be desired. I did hear from a friend of a
friend though that she wrote an article about the moon appearing upside down
to people below the equator though. You folks might want to look for that
one in the "Science" section.
You may also recall my earlier (and boringly long) post on truth in ULs in
connection with Shawn Branhart's note on "The FAQ is Wrong" on the pull tab
UL. Uncovering the veracity of a UL is just the tip of the iceberg of the
interesting study of ULs. ULs often have a basis in truth. Sometimes
there's nothing true about them at all.
If I read your post correctly, it seems that you imply that the "true"
culinary differences between cultures (e.g., "Orientals eating dog" versus
the strong US belief [and other areas I'm sure] that dogs are not food) and
perhaps a sort of cultural ignorance or knee-jerk reaction to different
frames of reference give rise to the UL. That's why I brought up that
my experience of living in Hawaii. Hawaii is a community with a very
heavy Asian flavor (heh). Most in the community there "know" Chinese have
been reported to eat dog although some of the most [in]famous dog eating
is the dog in the filipino dish "Black Dog". So we josh about it all as
may be evidenced in many local comedians making references to dog dishes.
Yet, despite this familiarity with dog cuisine, many folks still speak
of "those people" (primarily refugees from Vietnam) using dogs/cats in
their foods and selling it to unsuspecting natives in the classic UL
sense. My suspicion is that the UL comes not from ignorance or differences
in eating habits but rather some deeply felt resentment at refugees or
immigrants. Perhaps along the lines of Baer's conclusions.
+> Terry "Personally, I think cats have too little meat" Chan
+
+Jon "Personally, I'm sick of cutesy sayings inside names, aren't you?" Pastor
Terry "Sheesh!" Chan
Lars Henrik Mathiesen
>Eating squirrels and pigeons from city parks?
>Wouldn't these suckers >be full of all sorts of nasties?
ULs: I've read somewhere that in Copenhagen, syphilis is endemic in
pigeons. Also, a friend of mine told me about a family of (Korean?)
immigrants in his building who were all hospitalized with kidney
trouble after eating pigeons they caught on their balcony.
--
Lars Mathiesen, DIKU, U of Copenhagen, Denmark [uunet!]mcsun!diku!thorinn
Warning: This article may contain unmarked humour. tho...@diku.dk
Farshid Guilak
>ci...@solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf) writes:
>>Eating squirrels and pigeons from city parks?
>>Wouldn't these suckers >be full of all sorts of nasties?
>ULs: I've read somewhere that in Copenhagen, syphilis is endemic in
>pigeons. Also, a friend of mine told me about a family of (Korean?)
>immigrants in his building who were all hospitalized with kidney
>trouble after eating pigeons they caught on their balcony.
Pigeons and sea gulls are basically flying rats. They eat almost
anything. I'm not so sure that the danger is in catching a disease,
but in eating some toxic chemical that they have ingested (e.g.,
mercury, lead, etc.). I think I would have to be really hungry
before I would eat a city-dwelling pigeon.
Farsh
Terry Chan
f...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Farshid Guilak) writes:
[Stuff that Lars, Cindy, and Farshid wrote on squirrels, pigeons,
and sea gulls deleted. P.S. Good story on the Korean family,
any more detail?]
I would expect that the common disease of squirrels to be wary off
is rabies. The other thing I have always heard in conjunction with
those urban vermin are ticks/lice/fleas. I definitely agree with
Farshid's comment on all the contaminants from inhabiting our fair
cities to make their meat quite unpalatable, to say the least.
For you guys and gals who might happen to find this useful, Cecil
Adams (in _TSD_) has an excellent guide on how to prepare a squirrel
after you catch it. Remember, the tastiest squirrels are the gray
ones because the red ones are supposed to be too skinny and gamey.
Terry "Galloping Gourmand" Chan
Tom Maynard
>In article <1991Aug20.1...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
> f...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Farshid Guilak) writes:
> [Stuff that Lars, Cindy, and Farshid wrote on squirrels, pigeons,
> and sea gulls deleted. P.S. Good story on the Korean family,
> any more detail?]
>I would expect that the common disease of squirrels to be wary off
>is rabies. The other thing I have always heard in conjunction with
>those urban vermin are ticks/lice/fleas. I definitely agree with
>Farshid's comment on all the contaminants from inhabiting our fair
>cities to make their meat quite unpalatable, to say the least.
Squirrels in certain regions of California have been found to be
vectors of **Bubonic Plague**. Yes, seriously..
Don't feed the squirrels. They are nasty little suckers, and have very
bad attitudes. They also have lots of fleas...
Sure, they look cute.. But, get a dog or cat if you want to "play"...
>For you guys and gals who might happen to find this useful, Cecil
>Adams (in _TSD_) has an excellent guide on how to prepare a squirrel
>after you catch it. Remember, the tastiest squirrels are the gray
>ones because the red ones are supposed to be too skinny and gamey.
I'll have to check up on that. My cookbooks don't have any good recipes
for squirrel, or pigeons, for that matter...
No ObUl: I've got a few stupid-people/squirrel stories, but they don't
fit here. I'll shut up while I'm ahead...
--Tom Maynard 6600...@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
Undergrad Bio-Geek at Large...
John Gateley
I would expect that the common disease of squirrels to be wary off
is rabies.
I was recently bit by a squirrel (stupid little critter, couldn't tell
the difference between my finger and a nut) and went to the doctor. He
said that it has been so long since a squirrel-caused case of rabies
has been reported that I had nothing to worry about. (It has been 4 or
5 months now, so I don't have rabies ...). Truth ... or do I need a
new doctor.
john "squirrel bait" gat...@rice.edu
--
"I've thought the thoughts of little children and the thoughts of men
I've thought the thoughts of stupid people who have never been
so much in love as they should be and got confused too easily
to fall in love again." The Residents and Renaldo and the Loaf
David Esan
>do with the fact that other cultures do, in fact, consider delicacies foods
>which turn our stomachs -- and vice versa?
A point often driven home if you grew up on ethnic foods. Some "strange"
Jewish foods include: cow's tongue, chicken gizzards, chicken necks, cow's
instestines (kishka), spleen (miltz). My father, who grew up in "the old
country" fondly remembers eating chicken feet and cock's comb (no snide
remarks about Dad please.)
Shall we add more to this list?
______________________________________________________________________________
|
--> David Esan d...@moscom.com | Facts are the enemy of Truth -
| Don Quixote de la Mancha
_______________________________________|______________________________________
Stephanie da Silva
>
> Squirrels in certain regions of California have been found to be
> vectors of **Bubonic Plague**. Yes, seriously..
>
A minor correction.
The vector is what transmits the disease, the reservoir is what carries
it. Fleas (I think) are the vectors for the bubonic plague. You wouldn't
get it from a squirrel, but if you were close to one infected with the
plague and a flea bit it and then jumped off and bit you, then you might
contract the disease.
It's the same way with St. Louis Encephalitis. Birds are the reservoirs,
mosquitoes are the vectors.
--
Stephanie da Silva Taronga Park * Houston, Texas
ari...@taronga.hackercorp.com 568-0480 568-1032
Terry Chan
+In article <18...@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> pas...@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor)
writes:
+>Perhaps the UL about exotic meats in Chinese food in the U.S. has something
+>to do with the fact that other cultures do, in fact, consider delicacies
+>foods which turn our stomachs -- and vice versa?
+
+A point often driven home if you grew up on ethnic foods. Some "strange"
+Jewish foods include: cow's tongue, chicken gizzards, chicken necks, cow's
+instestines (kishka), spleen (miltz). My father, who grew up in "the old
+country" fondly remembers eating chicken feet and cock's comb (no snide
+remarks about Dad please.)
+
+Shall we add more to this list?
I always thought that Jewish dish of deep fried chicken skins to be quite
deadly. There's head cheese from Europe. Chitlins closer to home. I
quite like chicken's and duck's feet myself (if prepared correctly). Makes
me think of my 6 year cousin who saw her mother eating chicken's feet asking,
"But mom, what about the chicken toenail? Doesn't it taste funny?".
By comparison, the Chinese (esp. southern Chinese), who are reputed to eat
almost anything, the Japanese eat a much narrower range of food. Some of
the most explicit differences to me is my family's strong liking for organ
meats (but not to excess), but my uncle (who is Japanese) has to virtually
leave the room when he sees us indulging.
I would like to note as an aside that most people I know don't find American
food strange from the standpoint of ingredients used, but strongly dislike
the preparation methods.
Personally, I think part of that stuff has to do with the old cultures
being so desparately poor and not being afford to waste anything, doing
their best to make spicy/exciting dishes out of everything and anything
that could be eaten and keeping waste to a minimum. What was a delicacy
in the old country though, is considered weird in the new.
This leads me off to another tangent about wealthier societies (or segments
of society) engaging in activities for recreation which poorer folks would
think are ludicrous. What comes to my mind is folks going apple picking but
to a number of folks I've encountered (myself included), it seems strange to
go and do something like this for recreation. I think there's that notion of
wanting/trying to leave the poorer (frequently, but not necessarily,
agricultural) past behind.
Terry "Stream of consciousness but always mindful of food" Chan
Shawn Barnhart
!I always thought that Jewish dish of deep fried chicken skins to be quite
!deadly.
When I was much poorer, I used to buy whole chicken breasts and filet them
myself as it was cheaper than buying the pre-fileted chicken breasts. I
usually bought two or three breasts at once, and fileted them all at the same
type. As a by-product of this operation is a big heap of chicken skin. After
I was done, I always treated myself to a big heap of deep-fried chicken skins
covered with seasonings which I ate as I made soup stock out of the other
filet waste. Yum, makes me wish I was poor again!
Although it's deadly in the sense that its really fat-filled, but I never
thought of it as potentially toxic.
Shawn Barnhart / sbar...@mailbox.mail.umn.edu / U of Mn Public Relations
Contains less than 2% of the U.S. RDA of protein, vitamins A & C, thiamine,
riboflavin, niacin, calcium and iron.
David Esan
>deadly.
Forgot about those. My family always made them from duck skin (generally the
neck skin that is cut off prior to cooking). For the culturally deprived
"gribines" are make by cutting the skin into small squares and then adding
them to sauteed diced onions, and cooking them slowly until the skin is
brown.
Of course, the onions must be sauteed in duck fat (schmaltz). Some people
use chicken fat, but duck fat is much better. As a matter of fact, duck fat
on pumpernickel is a wonderful food. A little garlic helps also.
When I was in high school some big guy came over and asked if he could have
half of my sandwich. Being small at the time, and not wishing to die over
a sandwich (it was a fun high school), I said sure, but its salami and duck
fat. He passed, and never bothered me for food again.
John Wichers
>is rabies. The other thing I have always heard in conjunction with
>those urban vermin are ticks/lice/fleas. I definitely agree with
>Farshid's comment on all the contaminants from inhabiting our fair
>cities to make their meat quite unpalatable, to say the least.
Not just squirrels, either. Rabbits are also festering pits of disease.
(remember: if you're lost in the woods, don't catch rabbits and eat
'em, unless you like experiencing disease firsthand)
Like pigeons, rabbits bred for food are delicious...
--John "Bugs souffle for dinner tonight!" Wichers
Kevin D. Quitt
>Terry "Stream of consciousness but always mindful of food" Chan writes:
>
>!I always thought that Jewish dish of deep fried chicken skins to be quite
>!deadly.
>
>thought of it as potentially toxic.
That's why you fry it with onions, to detoxify it.
--
_
Kevin D. Quitt srhqla!venus!kdq kdq%ve...@sr.com
3D systems, inc. 26081 Avenue Hall Valencia, CA 91355
VOICE (805) 295-5600 x430 FAX (805) 257-1200
96.37% of all statistics are made up.
TJ Wood WA3VQJ
>nail it to a board and cure in the sun for another week,
>strip the resulting mass from the board. Then eat the board.
LUTEFISK! SHEESH! I got away for a couple of weeks and you guys are
STILL discussing Lutefisk! You st**** f****** b******s!
>Almost as discusting as a haggis.
Ohhhh. NEVER MIND.
Terry "Emily Litella" Wood
--
INTERNET: t...@pitt.edu BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS UUCP: uunet!unix.cis.pitt.edu!tjw
Laugh while you can, Monkey Boy!
Stephen Webb
>> As you're right to suspect, the use of human remains or animal flesh in
>> ethnic restaurant cooking is an urban legend.
>> ...
>
>
A friend and coworker of mine of Chinese ancestry told me of his youth in his
native Trinidad, where his father was a restauranteur. His father ran an
establishment in suburban Port of Spain which specialized in the style of
food the name of which translated to "food that fools the white ghosts".
Anyways, on one particular festive occasion, he said a number of members of
the local ex-pat Chinese community gathered at this restarant (which was closed
to regular patrons) an dthey all engaged in a "traditional" feast, which
included a dog dish. He said they used a small dog, bred for such a purpose by
someone on the island who breeds such dogs for just such a purpose. He said
it wasn't bad.
I imagine you would have to breed the animals specially for eating because
carnivorous animals are usually very tough, very gamey, and very greasy.
_______
Stephen M. "Gwei-lo" Webb "Mercifully what came was mostly liquid
and left the water too murky to
examine."
- Samuel R. Delaney
Mr.Scary
I was once told that the meat of carnivores was pretty disgusting to eat;
the argument went something along the same lines as the "you reek of what
you eat" thread, just like carp are supposedly bad because they eat all sorts
of crap and sludge from the bottoms of ponds, rivers, etc.
I dunno. Can anyone shed some light ?
Mr.Scary
----------------------------
s89...@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
Stephen Webb
>
>I'll have to check up on that. My cookbooks don't have any good recipes
>for squirrel, or pigeons, for that matter...
Try The Joy of Cooking (the clasic). It even has an illustration on how to
skin the little beast (basically, cut around the anus and turn it inside out,
stepping on it's cute little bushy tail and pulling the hide over it's head).
You have to be careful, because squirrels, like rabbits, carry some nasty
disease or other (psitticosis?) that you can catch while skinning it.
_______
Stephen M. Webb "Artichokes"
Yu No Hoo
|>
|> I was once told that the meat of carnivores was pretty disgusting to eat;
|> the argument went something along the same lines as the "you reek of what
|> you eat" thread, just like carp are supposedly bad because they eat all sorts
|> of crap and sludge from the bottoms of ponds, rivers, etc.
|>
|> I dunno. Can anyone shed some light ?
Well, Cindy may check up on this, but in the northern part of Norway a polular
food is seagull eggs (eggs and beer, a genuine tourist attraction) and I'll
promise you that some of those eggs really taste (and smell) of the gulls
menu. (Some gulls eat fish, some eat garbage - guess I should be looking for
an Alka Seltzers egg.)
Ok, to be more serious - this may be an UL, but in many cultures they don't eat
carnivores. Example: In the middle east they don't eat pork. (And, pigs aren't
not sacred as cows are in other places.) In many countries they check pork meat
for some disease you can get if you eat carnivore meat that isn't properly
cooked.
My personal opinion is that in britain they try to get around the problem
of meat from carnivores by burning it to charcoal before serving it. :-(
You may object and tell me that the british do this to beef as well, but
then the british have turned cows into carnivores. And, the suspect that
this is the cause of what is called the Mad Cow Disease.
--
Haakon "guess what lutefisk eats" Styri
Linda McAllister
>>I'll have to check up on that. My cookbooks don't have any good recipes
>>for squirrel, or pigeons, for that matter...
> ^^^^^^^^
>
Try "Unmentionable Cuisine", a cookbook full of recipes for the
adventurous. It has a large collection of recipes for organ meats, as
well as the less common animals such as squirrel, cat, mouse, songbird,
etc.
If you're looking for a way to prepare sow uterus, or a tasty way to
stew Fido, this is the place to look.
Linda McAllister
(who's actually prepared some of the more mundane recipes from this
book)
Phil Gustafson
>You have to be careful, because squirrels, like rabbits, carry some nasty
>disease or other (psitticosis?) that you can catch while skinning it.
>
Psittacosis is also called "parrot fever", which hints at the common
vector.
Of the many diseases and parasites carried by wild mammals, tularemia
is the one cited in Rombauer and Rombauer.
Phil "Safeway is looking better and better" Gustafson
--
|play: ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil |
|work: phil@gsi; sgi!gsi!phil | Phil Gustafson |
|1550 Martin Ave., San Jose CA 95126 | 408/286-1749 |
| Perform Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty |
Dagwood splits the Atom
>In article <1991Aug25.1...@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>, s89...@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Mr.Scary) writes:
>|> I was once told that the meat of carnivores was pretty disgusting to eat;
>|> the argument went something along the same lines as the "you reek of what
>|> you eat" thread, just like carp are supposedly bad because they eat all sorts
>|> of crap and sludge from the bottoms of ponds, rivers, etc.
>|>
>|> I dunno. Can anyone shed some light ?
>
>carnivores. Example: In the middle east they don't eat pork. (And, pigs aren't
>not sacred as cows are in other places.)
Well, if you're gonna be munching on them raw, it's probably good advice.
Doubly so for the meat of scavengers...you never know what kind of surprises
they picked up from their last meal. Hmmm...why WAS that thing lying dead
in the desert in the first place?
But modern humans (that's you and me, bub) should direct our special
attention to aquatic filter-feeders. Yep. Thanks to the miracle of
runoff, the damnedest things get into the water. And of nature's water
purification systems (aeration, biological concentration, sedimentation)
the critters from the benthos participate in not one but *two* mechanisms.
Heavy metals, in particular, are an increasingly common toxin.
So don't avoid the lowly carp, whose internal filtering mechanisms get thrown
out by the fishmonger. Beware clams and oysters, whose sizeable livers are
usually eaten. It's no coincidence that these little critters have by far the
highest concentrations of cadmium of any commercially available food.
Bon appetit!
-dave
--
David Hsu h...@eng.umd.edu "There you stand like a duck in a
U of Md Systems Research Ctr thunderstorm again - aren't you ever
College Park, Md 20742-3311 going to understand?"
+1 301 405 3689 - W. A. Mozart
David Throop
> the meat of carnivores was pretty disgusting to eat;
Eskimos eat polar bear. Shark tastes pretty good.
David Throop
ta...@isuvax.iastate.edu
For those of you who haven't read it yet, there was an article in
_Newsweek_ about a month or so ago, in which a reporter for _Newsweek_
went to China and, in his article, gave a 1 to 5 chopstick rating (1 =
worst, 5 = best) of his samplings from some Chinese restaurants of the
meat from certain animals such dog, cat, bear, snake and scorpion (just
to name a few). It was pretty interesting, but he tended to talk too
much about the treatment in the preparing of the animals than actually
rating the taste of the various meats.
--Dan M.