Re: Starving people refuse to eat food aid
Robert Carnegie
> Mike Ash wrote:
> > In article <4b26efa4$0$1645$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Michael Ash wrote:
> >>> In article <n5mdi5t2lcoheh0ud...@4ax.com>,
> >>> Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:47:22 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne
> >>>> Throop) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ::: The that means you amortize the full initial cost of the car.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> :: Note that you speak words that I do not understand. I hear
> >>>>> :: businesses use those words ("amortize"), but for me there's simply:
> >>>>> :: Make money. Spend money. Save money.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> : Such a simple philosophy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And not completely without merit. In that context, "armotize" is the name
> >>>>> of some arithmetic that tells you when it would be more efficient to
> >>>>> transition between these activities in some particular circumstance.
> >>>>> Much like there is falling, there is standing, and there is jumping, and
> >>>>> "terminal velocity" is the name of the result of some arithmetic that
> >>>>> tells you how startling will be the transition from falling to standing
> >>>>> after you've done some jumping from an airplane.
> >>>> Apparently some people have trouble grasping the simple concept
> >>>> that if you buy a car for $10,000, drive it for ten years and
> >>>> then drive it over a cliff because it's worthless, then the car
> >>>> has cost them $1000 a year.
> >>> Probably because as soon as they start grasping that concept, jerks like
> >>> me come along and point out that this analysis misses the time value of
> >>> money, and that the proper way to calculate it involves picking a
> >>> reasonable interest rate and applying that on top of the base $1000/year.
> >> Which makes it so much easier to just think of it as "The car cost me
> >> $10,000 that one year and nothing for the next nine."
> >
> > That's easier by itself, but makes it far more complicated to ask
> > questions like, "how much does it cost me, on an ongoing basis, to own a
> > car?" Some people might not care, but since that directly relates to
> > questions like, "can I afford to buy this car?" they really *should*
> > care.
> >
> I disagree because amortization is not money out of pocket. A loss of
> net worth is not the same as actually spending money.
But think of the car as a heap of cash, which is what you exchanged
for it. Every night, pixies gradually steal the cash from the car,
and also some of it falls off every time you drive the car around.
Having said that, I'm not sure it helps you towards any point
particularly.
Dimensional Traveler
Well, the same pixies do that to _anything_ one can buy and actually
use. So the choice basically comes down to 1) Use the money to acquire
something that you can use, even if it does eventually wear out; 2) sit
on it (which would be effectively the same as not having it); or 3)
gamble it in some fashion (aka "investing").
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
erilar
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
I like to buy things for cash. The salesman I bought my current car
from simply could not understand why anyone would write a check for a
car. It was a check on my money market account, which is my running
emergency fund. I knew the car I had before could not last forever, and
at 13 years was pushing the envelope. That same account has also paid
for things like replacing the septic system in my yard, which, like the
previous car, failed rather suddenly and spectacularly.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
David Scheidt
:In article <4b284e5f$0$1609$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
: Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
The one brand-new car I've bought, I paid for in cash. This confused
them. I took delivery of the car, and signed a contract that said I'd
pay for it, on a saturday. I'd given them some trivial amount of cash
as a down payment (less than $50 bucks, as I recall), and promised to
come pay for it later. The monday was a holiday, so it was wednesday
before I got back, with a pocketfull of Benjamins. Neither my sales
man, nor the sales manager was there. It took some convincing that
yes, I really wanted to give them many thousands of dollars, and why
wouldn't they take them?
--
sig 79
Dimensional Traveler
that while they were filling out the paperwork, I'd go get a cashier's
check for the full price. They didn't seem to have any problem with that.
John Francis
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>I like to buy things for cash. The salesman I bought my current car
>from simply could not understand why anyone would write a check for a
>car.
Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd need
a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that much cash).
But the salesman was only too happy to accept a regular personal check.
Michael Stemper
Yeah, but the person you're replying to used cash cash.
My last car was similar to your experience, except I said, "I don't have
my checkbook with me, so I'll come back tomorrow with a check and pick
up the car then." They told me that I could still take the car home
today. Zip down. Of course, I've been doing business with that dealership
since the mid-1980s, or fifteen years at that time.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
The FAQ for rec.arts.sf.written is at:
http://www.geocities.com/evelynleeper/sf-written
Please read it before posting.
Scott Lurndal
Likewise, but I did have to argue about not giving them my SSN. I'm
paying cash - you don't need to run a credit check, duh.
scott
erilar
jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
I didn't have that much in my regular checking account, but I have
checks I can write on the money market account as long as I don't do it
too often.
erilar
David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
> The one brand-new car I've bought, I paid for in cash. This confused
> them. I took delivery of the car, and signed a contract that said I'd
> pay for it, on a saturday. I'd given them some trivial amount of cash
> as a down payment (less than $50 bucks, as I recall), and promised to
> come pay for it later. The monday was a holiday, so it was wednesday
> before I got back, with a pocketfull of Benjamins. Neither my sales
> man, nor the sales manager was there. It took some convincing that
> yes, I really wanted to give them many thousands of dollars, and why
> wouldn't they take them?
Love it!!!
John Francis
I don't keep that much in my regular account, either. But all of the
price negotiations with the dealership were completed over the phone
(courtesy of a friend of mine, who is very good at this kind of stuff),
and so we just transferred the appropriate amount into checking, which
took effect immediately (internet banking can be your friend).
It was a fairly sizeable sum, too. This was the car:
http://www.panix.com/~johnf/temp/MyNewCar1.jpg
And while it wasn't new, but a two-year-old low mileage lease,
it was still about what I paid for both the other cars visible
there combined, each of which were bought new.
Mike Ash
I had the same experience a few years ago.
My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a big
unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces, they will
find you.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Keith F. Lynch
> Likewise, but I did have to argue about not giving them my SSN.
> I'm paying cash - you don't need to run a credit check, duh.
These days that might be considered suspicious behavior.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Thomas Prufer
wrote:
> It took some convincing that
>yes, I really wanted to give them many thousands of dollars, and why
>wouldn't they take them?
As one friend told me, because they would need to report you to $AUTHORITY as a
potential money launderer for paying in cash...
Thomas Prufer
Charles Wm. Dimmick
check. But when I had my driveway repaved I found that I could save $600
by paying in cash instead of a check.
Charles
Default User
> In article <hgbmv9$k5m$2...@reader1.panix.com>,
> jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
> > Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd
> > need a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that
> > much cash). But the salesman was only too happy to accept a
> > regular personal check.
>
> I had the same experience a few years ago.
>
> My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
> big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
> they will find you.
Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
I'd assume that if the check bounced they'd consider it stolen and
contact the police. They have personal information that should help
locate you, unless that was faked.
Brian
--
Day 318 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
James
Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
my personal info from my driver's license) or moving plates from an
existing vehicle of mine (if I was trading in). They would not let me
drive off in an unplated vehicle. Presumably in this jurisdiction,
when you register a plate to an owner, they check the driver's license
information to ensure its valid.
So it was pretty certain they knew who I was, unless I could hack the
DOT's database and enter in the data from my fake driver's license
(and my new license has anti-counterfitting holograms etc., so it
would be hard to fake). Of course not all jurisdictions may require
this kind of process.
If I moved the plate from the old vehicle to the new one, they could
check the government records and find out who the VIN was registered
to.
James
erilar
jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
> It was a fairly sizeable sum, too. This was the car:
>
> http://www.panix.com/~johnf/temp/MyNewCar1.jpg
That looks like one requiring a sizable sum. Mine is a silver Dodge
Caliber with frost dragons on the front doors. Frost-colored car. . .
Michael Stemper
My guess is that, in this case, the contractor would have never put
the job on his books, thus saving payment of various taxes. I know
that I've had a few contractors request either cash or a check made
payable directly to them for this reason.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Visualize whirled peas!
Michael Stemper
>> > My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
>> > big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
>> > they will find you.
>>
>> Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
>> plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
>> happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
>> in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
>Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
>before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
>my personal info from my driver's license)
This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
mounted on your car.
> Presumably in this jurisdiction,
>when you register a plate to an owner, they check the driver's license
>information to ensure its valid.
Around here, it's not necessary to have a driver's license to *own*
a car. It's only necessary to have a driver's license to drive one.
James
wrote:
> In article <4b7d2083-0164-4226-bb2f-b0b735a91...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
>
> >On Dec 17, 12:54=A0pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Mike Ash wrote:
> >> > My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
> >> > big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
> >> > they will find you.
>
> >> Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
> >> plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
> >> happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
> >> in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
> >Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
> >before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
> >my personal info from my driver's license)
>
> This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
> a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
> not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
> it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
>
make a trip to the licensing office, where they have a special line
just for them, and pick up plates for vehicles they plan to deliver.
That could be within minutes of the signing of the signing of the
contract, or days later. Timing on these things is always negotiable.
The dealer brings in the contract and photocopy of the drivers
license.
> The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
> register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
> only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
> it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
> drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
> that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
> vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
> ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
> mounted on your car.
>
We do have temporary plates here, but dealers do not use them, They
are used for private transfers, where the new owner has 10 days to get
a safety and a emissions test.
> > Presumably in this jurisdiction,
> >when you register a plate to an owner, they check the driver's license
> >information to ensure its valid.
>
> Around here, it's not necessary to have a driver's license to *own*
> a car. It's only necessary to have a driver's license to drive one.
I've never checked that in law here. But it is required for test
drives and to take delivery of a vehicle. Some dealerships have card
swipes to electronically capture the data as opposed to transcribing
it. I would think its possible for a dealer to use their dealer plates
to delivery a car to someone' s home who doesn't have a license, but
have never heard of it.
And I do spend a fair amount of time around car dealers, they are my
customers
James
erilar
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
> This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
> a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
> not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
> it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
>
> The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
> register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
> only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
> it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
> drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
> that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
> vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
> ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
> mounted on your car.
I noticed that, and it struck me as odd at first. In Wisconsin, the
plates follow the owner, not the car. When I get a new car this side of
the border, my plates go on to the new car. When I bought one here
before I retired, I had to get new plates in Minnesota, where I spent
9/12 of the year at the time.
Canth
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>In article <4b7d2083-0164-4226...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
>>On Dec 17, 12:54=A0pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Mike Ash wrote:
>
>
>>> > My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
>>> > big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
>>> > they will find you.
>>>
>>> Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
>>> plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
>>> happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
>>> in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
>
>>Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
>>before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
>>my personal info from my driver's license)
>
>This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
>a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
>not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
>it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
>
Here the issuance & affixing of plates is part of the final dealer
delivery process on new cars. Once a day, a dealers representative
goes to the Registration Office with all the appropriate paperwork for
all the new cars being sold/delivered that day. He then brings home
the appropriately issued plates, maybe affixes a dealer label to them
& then attaches the plates to the car.
>The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
>register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
>only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
>it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
>drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
>that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
>vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
>ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
>mounted on your car.
>
>> Presumably in this jurisdiction,
>>when you register a plate to an owner, they check the driver's license
>>information to ensure its valid.
>
>Around here, it's not necessary to have a driver's license to *own*
>a car. It's only necessary to have a driver's license to drive one.
AS! ds++:+++ a++ c+++ p++ t+ f-- S+ p+ e++ h++ r++ n++ i+ P+ m++ M
David Goldfarb
Michael Stemper <mste...@siemens-emis.com> wrote:
>The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
>register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
>only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
>it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
>drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
>that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
>vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
>ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
>mounted on your car.
When I bought a car, it came with temporary plates. The dealer registered
the car and got the plates; I had to go back to the dealership a few
weeks later to have them put on.
--
David Goldfarb | "Questions are a burden to others.
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | Answers are a prison for oneself."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- _The Prisoner_, "Dance of the Dead"
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Some possessions can appreciate value, although generally not by being
used. If you buy gold and keep it, even wear it or use it for dental
work, by and by it may be worth more than originally. Come to think,
gasoline has trended up a lot in the recent past, but it isn't exactly
an investment as the physical substance.
However, the depreciation pixies do not steal money from all cars and
other vehicles equally. If you choose to pile more money into buying
your vehicle, which may make a difference in vanity value rather than
practical value, the money will probably run away faster.
cryptoguy
orig...@moderators.isc.org <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > > Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > >> Mike Ash wrote:
> > >>>>> Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:47:22 GMT, thro...@sheol.org (Wayne
Mecedes Benz would be a counter example.
pt
David DeLaney
>James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
>>Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
>>before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
>>my personal info from my driver's license)
>
>register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
>only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
>it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
>drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
>that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
>vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
>ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
>mounted on your car.
And here it's a larger white tag, actually about the same size as a license
plate, good for something like a month. With the date it will expire printed
on it in large block letters in magic marker by the dealer before they attach
it to the inside of your rear window (or, depending on the dealer, down where
the actual license will go). The actual plates can come to the dealer, or they
can get mailed straight to you, if I recall right. And so far I haven't had
any "the temp tag is going to run out soon and the plates aren't here yet!"
issues that I recall.
Dave "Tennessee also doesn't give out front plates, just rear ones" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
>
> I noticed that, and it struck me as odd at first. In Wisconsin, the
> plates follow the owner, not the car. When I get a new car this side of
> the border, my plates go on to the new car. When I bought one here
> before I retired, I had to get new plates in Minnesota, where I spent
> 9/12 of the year at the time.
>
Different approaches. E.g. in Switzerland the plates follow the driver
to the point of having _two_ cars and one set of plates (convertible you
drive in summer and a 4x4 you drive in winter).
Michal
Cheryl
giving a lower quote in return for cash payments, which could end up
very costly for the homeowner if a worker fell off the roof or something.
--
Cheryl
Michael Stemper
>In article <hgec8p$7mv$2...@news.eternal-september.org>, mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>> The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
>> register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
>> only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
>> it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
>> drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
>> that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
>> vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
>> ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
>> mounted on your car.
>
>I noticed that, and it struck me as odd at first. In Wisconsin, the
>plates follow the owner, not the car.
Y'know, I thought that I remembered it working like that from when
I grew up there. Thanks for the confirmation that my memory still
works.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Ralph Jones
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <hgec8p$7mv$2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
>> This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
>> a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
>> not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
>> it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
>>
>> The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
>> register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
>> only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
>> it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
>> drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
>> that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
>> vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
>> ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
>> mounted on your car.
>
>I noticed that, and it struck me as odd at first. In Wisconsin, the
>plates follow the owner, not the car.
Likewise Colorado.
rj
Hatunen
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>When I bought my car, after haggling out the final price I told them
>that while they were filling out the paperwork, I'd go get a cashier's
>check for the full price. They didn't seem to have any problem with that.
We buy all our cars for cash and never had a problem with giving
them a check for the full amount.
While we actually have the cash, some people may arrange with
their bank or credit union for a car loan; the bank will place
the cash in their account so they can write a check. The seller
doesn't know if the cash is from them or from a loan.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
James
Depends on the model.
In general, to avoid depreciation, a car would have to be considered
collectable. Mercedes does have models that qualify, as do other
makers. But if you looked at volume, the kinds of cars that MB sells
in quantity are those that depreciate considerably.
Demand has alot to do with depreciation rates. I once leased a car
from a private leasing firm and so the rates were based pretty much
solely on depriciation (as opposed to manufacturer incentives). I
found it was cheaper for me to lease a car with automatic and AC as
opposed to buying the same car without those two options because the
demand for the car at the end of the lease was high, but considerably
higher for models with those features.
James
Default User
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:44:41 +0000 (UTC),
> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
> >In article
> <4b7d2083-0164-4226...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
> > > Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
> > > before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them
> > > with my personal info from my driver's license)
> >
> > This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
> > a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
> > not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
> > it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
> >
>
> Here the issuance & affixing of plates is part of the final dealer
> delivery process on new cars.
I should clarify that I've never bought a new car. Evey one was used.
It's possible that the dealer could offer some sort registration, but
it's never come up. Whenever I completed the transaction, they gave me
paperwork to go and register the vehicle. The last time, when I
actually traded in the 87 Bronco and bought the 95, I transfered the
plates. That required the title, which I had to wait on until the check
cleared. Previously I had gotten new plates because I had two vehicles
for a short period while I got rid of the older one.
Brian
--
Day 319 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Hatunen
(David Goldfarb) wrote:
>In article <hgec8p$7mv$2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>Michael Stemper <mste...@siemens-emis.com> wrote:
>>The way that it's handled here is that the driver does indeed
>>register the vehicle, but they don't have any plates. Plates are
>>only released by the DMV for use on a specific vehicle (although
>>it is possible to have them legally transferred). Instead, you
>>drive off the lot with a little yellow tag in your rear window
>>that gives various information about you, the dealer, and the
>>vehicle, and says, in effect, "plates applied for". It's good for
>>ten days, by which time your plates will have arrived and been
>>mounted on your car.
>
>When I bought a car, it came with temporary plates. The dealer registered
>the car and got the plates; I had to go back to the dealership a few
>weeks later to have them put on.
Here in Arizona the dealer puts a tempoary paper plate on the car
valid for a coupld of weeks; the dealer submits your paperwork to
MVD and your metal plate arrives after a few days.
It was only recently that Arizona switched from the plate
following the car to having the plate follow the owner. By a
quirk of fate, my wife and I have consecutive numbers on the
plates for her car and mine, and when she replaced her car with a
new one the dealer was able to transfer her plate to her new car.
Michael Stemper
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:44:41 +0000 (UTC), mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>In article <4b7d2083-0164-4226...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
>>>Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
>>>before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
>>>my personal info from my driver's license)
>>
>>This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
>>a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
>>not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
>>it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
>
>Here the issuance & affixing of plates is part of the final dealer
>delivery process on new cars. Once a day, a dealers representative
>goes to the Registration Office with all the appropriate paperwork for
>all the new cars being sold/delivered that day. He then brings home
>the appropriately issued plates, maybe affixes a dealer label to them
>& then attaches the plates to the car.
So you can't just show up at the dealer's, buy a car, and drive
off with it? Ouch.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
The name of the story is "A Sound of Thunder".
It was written by Ray Bradbury. You're welcome.
James
wrote:
> In article <uholi5pl2rnb8m8nfq27ed6mna0k0bv...@4ax.com>, Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au> writes:
> >On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:44:41 +0000 (UTC), mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
> >>In article <4b7d2083-0164-4226-bb2f-b0b735a91...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
> >>>Whenever I've bought from a dealer, they would ensure I had plates
> >>>before I left - either by getting them for me (registering them with
> >>>my personal info from my driver's license)
>
> >>This implies, if I'm not misinterpreting you, that the dealer has
> >>a bunch of unused plates waiting to be assigned to a vehicle. That's
> >>not allowed in Minnesota, and I'm surprised that your state allows
> >>it, as it would open a lot of possibilities for abuse or fraud.
>
> >Here the issuance & affixing of plates is part of the final dealer
> >delivery process on new cars. Once a day, a dealers representative
> >goes to the Registration Office with all the appropriate paperwork for
> >all the new cars being sold/delivered that day. He then brings home
> >the appropriately issued plates, maybe affixes a dealer label to them
> >& then attaches the plates to the car.
>
> So you can't just show up at the dealer's, buy a car, and drive
> off with it? Ouch.
If you don't mind waiting till the clerk from the dealership gets back
from the registration office. As I said in another post, in Ontario,
dealers have a special line, and so they can get them registered
without much delay, faster than someone off the street for sure.
But with new cars, unless you order no dealer installed options, you
aren't going to drive away with a new car within minutes of arrival.
Most dealers prep the cars for delivery, install options, fill the gas
tank, take off any protective covers. In the time it takes to do that
prep, your clerk will be back. Usually an hour.
Used cars don't have this process unless they are sold with dealer
rustproofing etc.
James
Michael Stemper
>On Dec 18, 12:58=A0pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>> In article <uholi5pl2rnb8m8nfq27ed6mna0k0bv...@4ax.com>, Canth <kwar6...@=
>bigpond.net.au> writes:
>> >Here the issuance & affixing of plates is part of the final dealer
>> >delivery process on new cars. =A0Once a day, a dealers representative
>> >goes to the Registration Office with all the appropriate paperwork for
>> >all the new cars being sold/delivered that day. =A0He then brings home
>> >the appropriately issued plates, maybe affixes a dealer label to them
>> >& then attaches the plates to the car.
>>
>> So you can't just show up at the dealer's, buy a car, and drive
>> off with it? Ouch.
>
>If you don't mind waiting till the clerk from the dealership gets back
>from the registration office.
In other words, "no, you can't do that".
>But with new cars, unless you order no dealer installed options, you
>aren't going to drive away with a new car within minutes of arrival.
The last two cars that I bought were sitting in the lot. I showed up,
told them what I was looking for, took their suggestion for a test
drive, said I'd take it, filled out the paperwork, and drove off.
Elapsed time under an hour. I started the buying process for my
current car at 1000 one morning by hitting on autobuytel.com. I found
an acceptable price on what I was looking for, went to the dealer's,
and was back with my new car before noon.
>Most dealers prep the cars for delivery, install options, fill the gas
>tank, take off any protective covers.
They can damn well do that before they offer to sell it to me.
> In the time it takes to do that
>prep, your clerk will be back. Usually an hour.
An hour sitting around after I've bought the car? No thanks.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
I feel more like I do now than I did when I came in.
James
wrote:
Ontario that is usually a thirty minute wait for service. Perhaps you
are in a smaller town with smaller lineups.
I bought a used car in that kind of timing, but we had agreed through
emails and I had sent my information for registation in advance. The
paperwork had been completed the day before, all that was left was the
signatures. I was swapping plates so all they had to do was register
the plate and the sticker to the new vehicle, which they could do in
advance. I took 15 minutes for a test drive. In and out in about 30
minutes give or take.
James
James
Michael Stemper
>On Dec 18, 1:44=A0pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>> In article <814b1f6f-33ed-4eeb-8266-d4726b1a4...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, James <jl...@idirect.com> writes:
>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0In the time it takes to do that
>> >prep, your clerk will be back. Usually an hour.
>>
>> An hour sitting around after I've bought the car? No thanks.
>>
>But then you have to go yourself to the registration office.
Well, not in Minnesota. If you can go back about five or six articles
up the tree (sorry, I haven't been saving them), you'll see that, in
Minnesota, the dealer fills out a little yellow form on which they
certify that they've sent in an application for registration. It
gives their name, my name, make, model, VIN, and date of application.
It gets displayed in the rear window. It's good for, I believe, ten
days. MN-DOT mails the plates out.
> In
>Ontario that is usually a thirty minute wait for service.
Like I said, two hours elapsed time from my first click on a web
page, though test drive, purchase, paperwork, and back to the
office in time for lunch.
> Perhaps you
>are in a smaller town with smaller lineups.
Minneapolis-St. Paul. But, here *nobody* has to go in to take care
of this. The little yellow form as a temporary, followed by the plates
being mailed. I believe that somebody mentioned Arizona having a
similar system.
>I bought a used car in that kind of timing, but we had agreed through
>emails and I had sent my information for registation in advance. The
>paperwork had been completed the day before,
In other words, it was significantly longer than two hours from
beginning to end.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
This message contains at least 95% recycled bytes.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Michael Stemper wrote:
>> In article <hgdbn4$p33$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Charles Wm.
>> Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> writes:
>>> John Francis wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <drache-E3D100....@news.eternal-september.org>, erilar
>>>> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I like to buy things for cash. The salesman I bought my current car
>>>> >from simply could not understand why anyone would write a check for a
>>>>> car.
>>>> Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd need
>>>> a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that much cash).
>>>> But the salesman was only too happy to accept a regular personal check.
>>>>
>>> That's how I bought my last three cars, just wrote them a personal
>>> check. But when I had my driveway repaved I found that I could save
>>> $600 by paying in cash instead of a check.
>>
>> My guess is that, in this case, the contractor would have never put
>> the job on his books, thus saving payment of various taxes. I know
>> that I've had a few contractors request either cash or a check made
>> payable directly to them for this reason.
>>
> They generally aren't paying into Workman's Comp, either, if they're
> giving a lower quote in return for cash payments, which could end up
> very costly for the homeowner if a worker fell off the roof or something.
>
1. it was a driveway, not a roof.
2. I didn't pay him until the job was completed.
Hatunen
cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.or�g <rja.ca...@excite.com>
wrote:
>Some possessions can appreciate value, although generally not by being
>used. If you buy gold and keep it, even wear it or use it for dental
>work, by and by it may be worth more than originally.
Good thing you used "may be" worth more. it wasn't that long ago
that gold rose to around $800/oz and then dropped to $300. I'm
not sure I'd buy any gold right now, it having risen so quickly.
>Come to think,
>gasoline has trended up a lot in the recent past, but it isn't exactly
>an investment as the physical substance.
Gasoline is not greatly more expensive than it was in the 1950s,
when it was about $0.27/gal, which inflation adusts to over
$2/gal today.
erilar
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
> So you can't just show up at the dealer's, buy a car, and drive
> off with it? Ouch.
You can in Wisconsin. I did.
Keith F. Lynch
> Cheryl wrote:
>> They generally aren't paying into Workman's Comp, either, if
>> they're giving a lower quote in return for cash payments, which
>> could end up very costly for the homeowner if a worker fell off
>> the roof or something.
Why would the homeowner be liable for that unless, say, he had
installed super-slippery teflon roof tiles and not told the worker?
> True, but in this case:
> 1. it was a driveway, not a roof.
> 2. I didn't pay him until the job was completed.
The worker fell off the driveway? :-)
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Keith F. Lynch
> But with new cars, unless you order no dealer installed options, you
> aren't going to drive away with a new car within minutes of arrival.
> Most dealers prep the cars for delivery, install options, fill the
> gas tank, take off any protective covers.
That brings back memories. My parents once bought a new car in which
the protective covers hadn't been removed very well. There was torn
plastic wrap protruding from the edges of all the windows.
Cheryl
> Charles Wm. Dimmick <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>> Cheryl wrote:
>>> They generally aren't paying into Workman's Comp, either, if
>>> they're giving a lower quote in return for cash payments, which
>>> could end up very costly for the homeowner if a worker fell off
>>> the roof or something.
>
> Why would the homeowner be liable for that unless, say, he had
> installed super-slippery teflon roof tiles and not told the worker?
I am not a lawyer, but I have been told (admittedly by people who are
also not lawyers) that if an accident is on your property, you can be
held responsible and/or someone can try to hold you responsible, either
of which is very expensive.
Moreover, the type of contractor who asks for cash to cheat on taxes may
also consider safety equipment an unnecessary expense, and if he's hired
by me, he's acting as my agent on my property...who do you think is
going to be named in any lawsuit?
>> True, but in this case:
>> 1. it was a driveway, not a roof.
>> 2. I didn't pay him until the job was completed.
>
> The worker fell off the driveway? :-)
Admittedly on a site far larger than a residential driveway, but a
couple years ago a teenager on his first job was burned alive and
smothered by a load of hot asphalt. Construction can be dangerous work.
--
Cheryl
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>Mike Ash wrote:
>> jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
>
>> > Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd
>> > need a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that
>> > much cash). But the salesman was only too happy to accept a
>> > regular personal check.
>>
>> I had the same experience a few years ago.
>>
>> My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
>> big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
>> they will find you.
>
>Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
>plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
>happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
>in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
They didn't get you temps?
>I'd assume that if the check bounced they'd consider it stolen and
>contact the police. They have personal information that should help
>locate you, unless that was faked.
--
"Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist."
- Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones
Mike Schilling
> On 17 Dec 2009 17:54:04 GMT, "Default User"
> <defaul...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mike Ash wrote:
>>> jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
>>
>>>> Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd
>>>> need a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that
>>>> much cash). But the salesman was only too happy to accept a
>>>> regular personal check.
>>>
>>> I had the same experience a few years ago.
>>>
>>> My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with
>>> a
>>> big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
>>> they will find you.
>>
>> Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with
>> no
>> plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates.
>> What's happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and
>> bill
>> of sale in exchange for the check, but not the title until the
>> check
>> cleared.
>
> They didn't get you temps?
>
Do they do that in Missouri? In California, until the plates come in
the mail, all you get is a piece of paper you're required to tape to
the windshield.
R H Draney
That's what you get in Arizona, but the piece of paper is the same size and
shape as the plates, the dealer usually tapes it on for you, and it often goes
where the plate will ultimately go instead of in the window....
A difference that makes no difference is no difference....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Michael Stemper
Same thing in Minnesota, except our piece of paper gets taped into
the rear window. Driver's side, I believe, but I haven't bought a
car since 2002. Given the sad state of its rings, this might change
without notice.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
"Writing about jazz is like dancing about architecture" - Thelonious Monk
Dave Hansen
wrote:
> In article <hijkif$13...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill...@hotmail.com> writes:
[...]
> >Do they do that in Missouri? In California, until the plates come in
> >the mail, all you get is a piece of paper you're required to tape to
> >the windshield.
>
> Same thing in Minnesota, except our piece of paper gets taped into
> the rear window. Driver's side, I believe, but I haven't bought a
> car since 2002. Given the sad state of its rings, this might change
> without notice.
I bought a used car in Iowa last year. The seller keeps his plates,
and gives you the title and bill of sale. Those items are stored in
the glovebox, and you have 30 days to get your own plates. In the
meantime, you drive without plates, paper taped to the window, or
anything.
I thought it was kinda weird, but it freaked my wife out, so I had to
drive downtown to get plates the next day over my lunch hour. At
least they hand them to you there. No waiting for them to arrive in
the mail.
Not sure what they do with a new car...
Regards,
-=Dave
erilar
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
Now that it's far in the past, I can probably tell this tale. I bought
a newer car in Wisconsin and used my old MN plates when I went back to
MN, where I later got new MN plates. The "new" car was the same model
and almost the same color as the older one and it was weeks before
anyone asked me whether I had a different car 8-)
David Loewe, Jr.
Yes, we have temps in Missouri.
http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/motorv/buying.htm#temppermit
If you buy from a dealer, they will act as an agent and issue you it (one
piece of paper stuck in the rear window) there - or at least they did the
last time I bought from a dealer.
Note: I no longer have a car and bought the last couple of cars I did own
from private parties. I do still have a motorcycle.
--
"Doctor, Doctor, help me please, I know you'll understand
There's a time device inside of me, I'm a self-destructin' man."
Raymond Douglas Davies
R H Draney
>
>Now that it's far in the past, I can probably tell this tale. I bought
>a newer car in Wisconsin and used my old MN plates when I went back to
>MN, where I later got new MN plates. The "new" car was the same model
>and almost the same color as the older one and it was weeks before
>anyone asked me whether I had a different car 8-)
Book 'im, Danno!...r
Default User
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:09:34 -0800, "Mike Schilling"
> <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > David Loewe, Jr. wrote:
> >> On 17 Dec 2009 17:54:04 GMT, "Default User"
> >> <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came
> with >>> no
> >>> plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates.
> >>> What's happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and
> >>> bill
> >>> of sale in exchange for the check, but not the title until the
> >>> check cleared.
> > >
> >> They didn't get you temps?
>
> > Do they do that in Missouri? In California, until the plates come
> > in the mail, all you get is a piece of paper you're required to
> > tape to the windshield.
> If you buy from a dealer, they will act as an agent and issue you it
> (one piece of paper stuck in the rear window) there - or at least
> they did the last time I bought from a dealer.
In my particular case I have always purchased used vehicles from
dealers. I have never received a temporary tag. Generally I have been
transfering the old plates to the new vehicle.
Brian
--
Day 346 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Hatunen
<defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>David Loewe, Jr. wrote:
>> If you buy from a dealer, they will act as an agent and issue you it
>> (one piece of paper stuck in the rear window) there - or at least
>> they did the last time I bought from a dealer.
>
>In my particular case I have always purchased used vehicles from
>dealers. I have never received a temporary tag. Generally I have been
>transfering the old plates to the new vehicle.
Here in the US, some states have the plates going with the
vehicle, while others have the plates going with the owner.
As a young lad in Ohio we knew that it was the plateless cars in
the used car lot that were for sale.
Default User
> On 14 Jan 2010 18:52:38 GMT, "Default User"
> <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > In my particular case I have always purchased used vehicles from
> > dealers. I have never received a temporary tag. Generally I have
> > been transfering the old plates to the new vehicle.
>
> Here in the US, some states have the plates going with the
> vehicle, while others have the plates going with the owner.
Missouri allows the owner to transfer plates.
Greg Goss
>On 17 Dec 2009 17:54:04 GMT, "Default User" <defaul...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Mike Ash wrote:
>>> jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
>>
>>> > Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd
>>> > need a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that
>>> > much cash). But the salesman was only too happy to accept a
>>> > regular personal check.
>>>
>>> I had the same experience a few years ago.
>>>
>>> My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
>>> big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
>>> they will find you.
>>
>>Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
>>plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
>>happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
>>in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
>
>They didn't get you temps?
It probably depends on the jurisdiction. I've only ever bought
vehicles in BC. For two of them, the dealer had an insurance agent in
the building. (In BC, routine vehicle registration is done by
insurance agents via the government-owned insurance corp). Such
insurance agents have a stack of plates ready to hand out. In two
other purchases, you get to use the plate from your trade-in for two
weeks till you update the insurance and registration.
The dealer can't let you drive off the lot without insurance. That
would make him an accessory to something.
>>I'd assume that if the check bounced they'd consider it stolen and
>>contact the police. They have personal information that should help
>>locate you, unless that was faked.
I think that there are check verification services now that clear
checks immediately, while the rest of the paperwork is still being
prepared. I've had a check deducted from my account less than two
hours after handing the paper to someone.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>Mike Schilling filted:
>>Do they do that in Missouri? In California, until the plates come in
>>the mail, all you get is a piece of paper you're required to tape to
>>the windshield.
>
>That's what you get in Arizona, but the piece of paper is the same size and
>shape as the plates, the dealer usually tapes it on for you, and it often goes
>where the plate will ultimately go instead of in the window....
>
>A difference that makes no difference is no difference....r
Anywhere other than Arizona, a piece of paper taped to the OUTSIDE of
the car becomes a soggy mess before the next mail comes in.
David Loewe, Jr.
>David Loewe, Jr. wrote:
>>> Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
>>> plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates.
>>> What's happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and
>>> bill of sale in exchange for the check, but not the title until the
>>> check cleared.
>>
>> They didn't get you temps?
>Do they do that in Missouri? In California, until the plates come in
>the mail,
In Missouri, you have to go to an office and pick up the plates.
>all you get is a piece of paper you're required to tape to
>the windshield.
Missouri temporary plates go on the inside surface of the rear window.
--
"We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve
men every day who don't know anything and can't read."
- Mark Twain
David Loewe, Jr.
>"David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>On 17 Dec 2009 17:54:04 GMT, "Default User" <defaul...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>>Mike Ash wrote:
>>>> jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Funny - when I bought my current car, I was wondering whether I'd
>>>> > need a certified check (there's no way I was going to carry that
>>>> > much cash). But the salesman was only too happy to accept a
>>>> > regular personal check.
>>>>
>>>> I had the same experience a few years ago.
>>>>
>>>> My theory is that you're buying a large, highly-visible item with a
>>>> big unique identifier attached to the back. If your check bounces,
>>>> they will find you.
>>>
>>>Which identifier? Every time I've bought a vehicle, they came with no
>>>plates. It was up to me to get it registered and get the plates. What's
>>>happened in the past is that they'd give the vehicle and bill of sale
>>>in exchange for the check, but not the title until the check cleared.
>>
>>They didn't get you temps?
>
>It probably depends on the jurisdiction.
Brian (Default User) and I are in the same jurisdiction - St. Louis County,
Missouri, USA.
>I've only ever bought
>vehicles in BC. For two of them, the dealer had an insurance agent in
>the building. (In BC, routine vehicle registration is done by
>insurance agents via the government-owned insurance corp). Such
>insurance agents have a stack of plates ready to hand out. In two
>other purchases, you get to use the plate from your trade-in for two
>weeks till you update the insurance and registration.
>
>The dealer can't let you drive off the lot without insurance. That
>would make him an accessory to something.
>
>>>I'd assume that if the check bounced they'd consider it stolen and
>>>contact the police. They have personal information that should help
>>>locate you, unless that was faked.
>
>I think that there are check verification services now that clear
>checks immediately, while the rest of the paperwork is still being
>prepared. I've had a check deducted from my account less than two
>hours after handing the paper to someone.
--
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola."
Raymond Douglas Davies
R H Draney
It was in a transparent plastic envelope....r
William December Starr
Dave Hansen <id...@hotmail.com> said:
> I bought a used car in Iowa last year. The seller keeps his
> plates, and gives you the title and bill of sale. Those items are
> stored in the glovebox, and you have 30 days to get your own
> plates. In the meantime, you drive without plates, paper taped to
> the window, or anything.
>
> I thought it was kinda weird, but it freaked my wife out, so I had
> to drive downtown to get plates the next day over my lunch hour.
> At least they hand them to you there. No waiting for them to
> arrive in the mail.
>
> Not sure what they do with a new car...
I bet they don't mail that to you either.
-- wds