Disney corrupting youth again
ann logue
>
>Manny DiPresso (md...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: <for Seattle's weekly, "The Stranger", Dec. 20 -26 ed.>
>
>: TOY STORY IS PORNOGRAPHIC
<article snipped>
>No way. This must be a joke, isn't it? No way! That is, um, over the edge?
>
>Mark Kemper
My guess: it's a joke. I have a friend who works for the Stranger
(hi, Laura!). It's a hip little urban rag, not a house organ for
some wacko evangelical group. They're just having some fun with the
whole Disney sex-obsession-obsession that some fundamentalists seem
to have.
:) Annie
Hugh Gibbons
are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree with
some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
violent for young children:
The Fox and the Hound
Beauty and the Beast
Bambi
The Lion King
Snow White
Certainly, children over a certain age are capable of realizing that
the violence they see is in no way real, and symbolizes more
subtle conflicts, but these are not the kids to which these movies
are marketed.
Michael Heinz
>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
>are much to violent for young children.
[snip]
>Certainly, children over a certain age are capable of realizing that
>the violence they see is in no way real, and symbolizes more
>subtle conflicts, but these are not the kids to which these movies
>are marketed.
I think you and your wife are oversensitive. These are all favourites
of my 3 year old; and not nearly as violent as, say, "Power Rangers"
or "GI Joe Extreme".
Mike, Jr., is certainly quite sensitive to TV violence - some shows
send him into an orgy of hand-to-hand combat - but he's never reacted
to the violence in Disney films. On the other hand, the >morality<
taught by Disney films is far superior to that taught by most of the
crap pushed on toddlers these days.
Mike "My kid never tries to beat me up after watching Bambi" Heinz
- You are in a maze of twisty little URLs, all different -
Mike Heinz
mhe...@ssw.com
Barbara Hamel
> My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies are
> much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree with
> some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
> violent for young children: [...]
Er, wouldn't this topic be better suited to rec.arts.disney.criticism?
Barbara "the only violence I had to contend with in The Lion King was when
the little twerp sitting next to me kept trying to steal my popcorn" Hamel
--
Barbara Hamel | Otherwise I think you're confusing the AFU
bha...@fas.harvard.edu | FAQ with an electronic Trivial Pursuit card.
| - Cindy Kandolf
James Nicoll
>
>Mike, Jr., is certainly quite sensitive to TV violence - some shows
>send him into an orgy of hand-to-hand combat - but he's never reacted
>to the violence in Disney films. On the other hand, the >morality<
>taught by Disney films is far superior to that taught by most of the
>crap pushed on toddlers these days.
Hmmm. In _Little Mermaid_, the *intelligent* fishies are used
as food by the landfolk. This is used to provide a justification for
a humourous song/scene. What exactly is the moral message there?
James "I'd ask why Ariel never thought to write the Prince
a note, but there's no evidence the big galoot could read" Nicoll
Patrick W. Fine
hgib...@hoshi.Colorado.EDU (Hugh Gibbons) wrote:
>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
>are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree with
>some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
>violent for young children:
>Beauty and the Beast
>Bambi
>The Lion King
>Snow White
>
the Lovable Rock".
Patrick
Brad Lips
I disagree... there are plenty of creative and non-violent films for kids
that are obviously way above a Lovable Rock. Toy Story is a good example
-- only a teensy little bit of violence.
I think the Lion King is WAY too violent and scary for little kids. I am
far far left -- I'm not trying to say "Let's Boycott that sicko Disney!"
No no no, but I am saying I'd rather MY kids watch movies and programs
that don't include violence (or sexism or racism blah blah blah).
But, does this have any place on AFU anyway?
Jennifer
-----------------
The food was terrible, but the waiter was HILARIOUS!
Stephen Worth
# Mike "My kid never tries to beat me up after watching Bambi" Heinz
Pull out your blaze orange vest and your shotgun and see how he
feels about you then...
Eric Pobirs
Nicoll) writes:
>
>In article <4chbfa$d...@netaxs.com>, Michael Heinz <mhe...@ssw.com>
wrote:
>>
>>Mike, Jr., is certainly quite sensitive to TV violence - some shows
>>send him into an orgy of hand-to-hand combat - but he's never reacted
>>to the violence in Disney films. On the other hand, the >morality<
>>taught by Disney films is far superior to that taught by most of the
>>crap pushed on toddlers these days.
>
> Hmmm. In _Little Mermaid_, the *intelligent* fishies are used
>as food by the landfolk. This is used to provide a justification for
>a humourous song/scene. What exactly is the moral message there?
>
And why was 'Hakuna matata' the catchphrase for marketing 'The Lion
King' when in the movie it was nearly Simba's undoing? Disney couldn't
find any catchy Swahili for 'Face up to your responsibilities?'
Hugh Gibbons
Yep. There's an example of the morality taught in Disney films. Parents
might want to take care about that, too. In The Fox and the Hound, there
can be no doubt that children are being taught, among other things, that
hunting is tantamount to murder. It is only an older an more sophisticated
person who can appreciate that Disney might have been trying to criticise
prejudice in a subtle way, and really missed the boat.
Maybe this brings the discussion to a more AFUppropriate level. There's
a sort of folkloric idea being discussed, particularly among conservatives,
that Disney is promoting ideas that are not good for your kids. Of course,
according to conservatives *everybody's* promoting ideas that are not
good for your kids...
Susan Moyers Porter
(Patrick W. Fine) wrote:
><In article <4cftim$n...@lace.colorado.edu>,
>< hgib...@hoshi.Colorado.EDU (Hugh Gibbons) wrote:
><>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
><>are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree with
><>some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
><>violent for young children:
><>The Fox and the Hound
snip<<
Gag! I agree. What sicko thought this one up? I like Brave little
toaster myself.
SMP/NM
Michael Heinz
>In article <4chbfa$d...@netaxs.com>, mhe...@ssw.com wrote:
># Mike "My kid never tries to beat me up after watching Bambi" Heinz
>Pull out your blaze orange vest and your shotgun and see how he
>feels about you then...
Hunt deer with a shotgun!?! Seems positively pointless... I mean, I
guess it would >annoy< the deer quite a bit - don't think I could get
close enough to kill one with it, though.
Mike "The difference between deer and burglers is that you never find
a deer in your bedroom closet" Heinz
**********************************************************
mhe...@ssw.com
"Means nothing, I know, but there it is" - hel...@aol.com
Richard Christopher Volkerts
Patrick W. Fine <imf...@primenet.com> wrote:
>In article <4cftim$n...@lace.colorado.edu>,
> hgib...@hoshi.Colorado.EDU (Hugh Gibbons) wrote:
>>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
>>are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree with
>>some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
>>violent for young children:
>>The Fox and the Hound
>>Bambi
>>The Lion King
>>Snow White
>>
and that scary forest...but I don't think anyone actually does any
vioelnce (although the dwarves get pretty rambunctious and chase that
rotten queen around). Now my four year old daughter did give me pause
when she kept bringing me apples and cackling "take a bite.."
But she also started handing me business cards after watching Hello Dolly
and saying 'just leave everything to me..." so I am not sure which is worse.
I do know that Power Rangers turns all three of my kids into litle
pugilists
Christopher "the pugilistee" Volkerts
Eric Pobirs
Kunkel) writes:
>
>In article <30DFDF...@netcom.com>, Manny DiPresso
<md...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>...The latest critique, purportedly from the American Family
>>Association, came via e-mail. I quote:
>>
>>"In TOY STORY, rated G by the ultraliberal MPAA, the main characters
>>'Woody' --note sexual reference-- and 'Buzz' -- note drug reference--
are
>>owned by a child in a single-parent household in which the father is
>>noticeably absent." And there's "the sex-obsessed talking potato,
the
>>sex-obsessed Bo Peep (who just can't keep her hands or lips off
'Woody'),
>>and an Etch-a-Sketch whose 'knobs' must be 'adjusted' to produce
>>results." You can boycott Toy Story currently at the Metro and
Broadway
>>Market.
>
> Surely a spoof, but who can tell anymore? The last sentence is
the
>best part. Why do we need to go to the theater to boycott a movie?
>
> Kunkel
Stand out front giving your best 'Midwich Cuckoo' stare and
ominously don't buy a ticket. How can Eisner not be chastened by this?
Queenie
Pobirs) says:
> The all time favorite child traumatizer 'Bambi's Mother', didn't
If I may be allowed to zoom right over the edge of on-topicness,
my father's favorite movie is "Bambi meets Godzilla." It's ten
seconds long.
>But not much later, on my seventh birthday If I
>recall, the blueberry girl in 'Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory'
>sent me around the bend. Fortunately for my parent we were at a
>drive-in and cause a minimum of disruption. Watching that film today I
>feel a bit embarrassed when the scene comes up but I cannot connect to
>what upset me then.
There are a lot of things in Willy Wonka which aren't intended
for children, but usually zoom right over their heads. This is
common in lots of children's media, usually to keep parents
from going insane while watching. "Animaniacs" is a prime
example (I am a pianist!). I don't have a good memory of
Willy Wonka as I last saw it three years ago, although I do
remember that I found it rather sadistically funny. Is it
possible that you might have been embarrassed by something
you picked up on that wasn't meant for kids?
-J"I think I'll rent 'The Adventures of Baron Munchausen'
tonight"M
-----------Jennifer S. Mullen----------...@psu.edu---------------
"Remember: what they think is not important because they haven't been where we
are." -Neil Marsh, alt.support.depression
Michael Heinz
>I disagree... there are plenty of creative and non-violent films for kids
>that are obviously way above a Lovable Rock. Toy Story is a good example
>-- only a teensy little bit of violence.
No, not much violence at all, unless you count everything that bad kid
and his dog >did<, not to mention sexism and religious cults.
JUS...@delphi.com
Quoting HFDF47C from a message in alt.folklore.urban
> I disagree... there are plenty of creative and non-violent films for
>kids that are obviously way above a Lovable Rock. Toy Story is a good
>example -- only a teensy little bit of violence.
> I think the Lion King is WAY too violent and scary for little kids.
>I am far far left -- I'm not trying to say "Let's Boycott that sicko
>Disney!" No no no, but I am saying I'd rather MY kids watch movies and
My children were more frightened by the violence on Toy Story than on Lion
King. The character of Sid was more familiar and more frightening than Scar.
The father losing his temper in Little Mermaid is too much for some of the
girls' friends.
Justene in La Canada, CA
Rainbow V 1.17.5 for Delphi - Registered
Eric Pobirs
Fine) writes:
>
>In article <4cftim$n...@lace.colorado.edu>,
> hgib...@hoshi.Colorado.EDU (Hugh Gibbons) wrote:
>>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
>>are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree
with
>>some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
>>violent for young children:
>>The Fox and the Hound
>>Beauty and the Beast
>>Bambi
>>The Lion King
>>Snow White
>>
"Fluffy,
>the Lovable Rock".
There is absolutely no predicting what will set off a child. Watch
a clown for while or even worse, be one. (I was and still cannot stand
the smell Steinway White) For every dozen children who love clowns
there will be one who goes berserk and begins screaming bloody murder.
The all time favorite child traumatizer 'Bambi's Mother', didn't
bother me at all. But not much later, on my seventh birthday If I
recall, the blueberry girl in 'Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory'
sent me around the bend. Fortunately for my parent we were at a
drive-in and cause a minimum of disruption. Watching that film today I
feel a bit embarrassed when the scene comes up but I cannot connect to
what upset me then. I wasn't much older when I saw the original 'Day
of the Triffids' and I LOVED that.
I'm told one of my sisters was frightened by Cruella DeVille.
TimPHunter
>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
>are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree
with
>some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
>violent for young children:
(list snipped for brevity)
I think that there must be a shareware news reader out there that, in its
trial version, only allows you to read and post to one newsgroup. You have
to pick a newsgroup that you like and then, until you pay the fee, that's
the only newsgroup you get. Some people don't want to pay the fee, so
whenever they want to post something, they just post it to "their"
newgroup, regardless of its relevance.
--
Tim "makes sense to ME" Hunter
sch...@usa.pipeline.com
'mhe...@ssw.com (Michael Heinz)' wrote:
>Hunt deer with a shotgun!?! Seems positively pointless... I mean, I
>guess it would >annoy< the deer quite a bit - don't think I could get
>close enough to kill one with it, though.
Chris "why do they call it buckshot" Schoonover
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
| There's a letter on the desktop, that I dug out of a |
| drawer, the last truce we ever to came from our adolescent |
| war. And I start to feel a fever from the warm air through |
| the screen, you come regular like seasons shadowing my |
| dreams. - Emily Sailers (Indigo Girls - "Ghost") |
| PSU AE '93 sch...@usa.pipeline.com |
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
time...@servtech.com
>>feels about you then...
>Hunt deer with a shotgun!?! Seems positively pointless... I mean, I
>guess it would >annoy< the deer quite a bit - don't think I could get
>close enough to kill one with it, though.
In New York you can't hunt deer with a rifle. Shotguns (and of course
bows) are the only legal way to hunt them. A slug can do a fair amount
of damage, though it doesn't travel as far as a rifle bullet does. This
is called "Giving the animal a sporting chance." I'll leave out the
details on coming back later to follow the blood trail to the corpse,
and gutting (field-dressing) techniques (OK, the part where you grab the
asshole and pull is my brother's favorite).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
time...@servtech.com
tim...@unn.unisys.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Heinz
> Hmmm. In _Little Mermaid_, the *intelligent* fishies are used
>as food by the landfolk. This is used to provide a justification for
>a humourous song/scene. What exactly is the moral message there?
If they're so smart, why did they take the bait?
Mike "Personally, I was hoping someone would fillet Ariel." Heinz
Michael Heinz
>In New York you can't hunt deer with a rifle. Shotguns (and of course
>bows) are the only legal way to hunt them. A slug can do a fair amount
>of damage, though it doesn't travel as far as a rifle bullet does. This
>is called "Giving the animal a sporting chance." I'll leave out the
>details on coming back later to follow the blood trail to the corpse,
>and gutting (field-dressing) techniques (OK, the part where you grab the
>asshole and pull is my brother's favorite).
Never knew that. 'round here, there's so many rifle hunters that you
never even see a deer during hunting season. So my buddies who still
hunt have all switched to bow hunting. They say it's great - they see
all kinds of deer. They just never hit anything.
Mike "Except the occasional tree" Heinz
James Nicoll
>jdni...@granite.sentex.net (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> Hmmm. In _Little Mermaid_, the *intelligent* fishies are used
>>as food by the landfolk. This is used to provide a justification for
>>a humourous song/scene. What exactly is the moral message there?
>
>If they're so smart, why did they take the bait?
Ah. So it's ok to eat stupid people? Do you have any idea how
many people would be eaten by folks in either customer relations or
in the tourist industry?
James Nicoll
Launcelot
time...@servtech.com <time...@servtech.com> wrote:
>>>Pull out your blaze orange vest and your shotgun and see how he
>>>feels about you then...
>
>and gutting (field-dressing) techniques (OK, the part where you grab the
>asshole and pull is my brother's favorite).
>
>
>time...@servtech.com
>tim...@unn.unisys.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uhmm... Maybe we should not hear the stories of brotherly love in your
family... they are scary.
Launcelot
--
Alan Hamilton
>peac...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>
>> Have you notised in almost all disney movies someone always dies?
>
> Except Pinocchio, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, Aladdin,
> Cinderella, Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland, The Aristocats, etc.
Although no major characters die in Aladdin, Gazeem the theif dies (eaten by
the Cave of Wonders) at the start of the film.
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
snopes
> Have you notised in almost all disney movies someone always dies?
Except Pinocchio, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, Aladdin,
Cinderella, Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland, The Aristocats, etc.
Not surprisingly, most of the Disney movies in which "someone dies" are
the ones adapted from fairy tales; that's the usual fate of villains in
such stories.
> Think about it.
But not very long.
- snopes
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The name "snopes" alone is no guarantee of excellence. It is used |
| by a number of publishers and may serve mainly to mislead an unwary |
| buyer. |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Patrick Srail
Morning Star (April 26, 1995; page 2) They were passed on to Mr.
Allen DeVonshire, a reporter for the Morning Star, by an anonymous
Disney employee. I am reposting them here in their entirety since
I thought they would be of interest to the readers of this
newsgroup.
Chairman of the Board
Walt Disney World Headquarters
Santa Barbara, California
February 18, 1995
Dear Sir,
I recently visited Florida (earlier this month), and decided
to swing by DisneyWorld for the first time with my wife, Clara, and
my little boy, Joshua. Up to this time, I had never visited one of
your establishments because I always felt they were too
"commercial," but I decided to give it a try, especially since my
9 year old son began hyperventilating when I first said no.
My initial impression was pleasant enough, not to say
invigorating. Around two in the afternoon, however, a parade began
which featured a marching band and many of the Disney characters.
Everything was fine, until "Mickey Mouse" came marching by and my
son, who is a bit hyperkinetic (probably from all the junk food we
feed him) broke loose from my grasp and ran up to Mickey
anticipating, no doubt, a cartoon adventure.
I followed my son out of the crowd, but before I could reach
him, he had wrapped himself around Mickey's left leg for dear life.
As I walked up, "Mickey" began screaming at both my son and myself.
I paraphrase his words:
"Get the fuck OFF ME, you little pile of RAT SHIT! I gotta
put up with you little FUCKERS every goddamn day and I'm so sick of
it I swear to God I'll bury my mouse paw up your goddamn little
butt hole if you don't LET GO!!!"
As he was screaming, he was kicking his leg out, trying to
dislodge my now terrified son. Naturally, this commotion
embarrassed both myself and my wife, who had also come to join in
the little scene. People were taking pictures as "Mickey" screamed
and swung his leg frantically with my son wrapped around it like a
rubber band.
NOBODY treats my son like that. I suppose I lost my
composure, and it pains me to say it, but I'm afraid I acted
precipitously.
I began to beat the shit out of Mickey.
I understand he is a Disney employee, but I felt justified on
the grounds that he was mistreating a member of the *paying*
public, who happened to be my only child. Would you have done
differently?
Naturally I was mortified, and the entire incident nearly
ruined our day. As I gathered up my hysterical son, a Disney
employee (you can tell them all by their absolutely astonishing
happiness) came running up to apologize. I felt like decking him
too, but I judiciously refrained.
Taking me aside, he begged me not to press any charges or to
make a big deal of the incident. I suggested that I needed a
little time to cool down and think about it. It was then that the
most incredibly tasteless incident of my life occurred. To this
day, I can hardly believe it happened. (By the way, I happened to
notice his nametag: Morty Fleischmann) He offered to let me have
sex with "Snow White" if I promised to keep my mouth shut! Hard to
believe, right? I nearly dumped in my pants I was so
flabbergasted.
I want you to know that I will never return to "Disneyworld."
It is a haven of corruption and violence. It is my hope that this
letter will instigate changes in your personnel policies, as I do
not wish anyone else to have to suffer through a similar
experience.
I am also returning, herewith, three pairs of Mickey Mouse
Ears purchased at your place of business.
Respectfully Yours,
Randall K. Sandovsky
Cleveland, Ohio
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Mr. Randall K. Sandovsky
Cleveland, Ohio
February, 25, 1995
Dear Mr. Sandovsky,
On behalf of Walt Disney World Productions, I would like to
offer you and your family our sincere apologies for the experiences
you described in your letter dated February 18, 1995. There is no
excuse for the kind of behavior exhibited by our ex-employee, Mr.
Frank Trevino, Mickey of the day. The language you described is
anathema to us here. Words such as "fuck," "shit," "goddamned,"
and "butt-hole" are not tolerated at Disneyworld, you can rest
assured.
After a long and exhaustive investigation, however, we were
unable to discover any Disney employee named "Morty Fleishmann."
Are you sure of the spelling? To be quite frank, we've had several
complaints about an individual posing as a Disney employee who
offers to set up a sexual rendezvous with several of our
characters, including Bambi, the Little Mermaid, and Goofy. A Ms.
Cecelia Bernhart of New Haven, Connecticut, wrote to us only last
week indicating that a person with a similar name (Marty
BlueBonnet), who claimed to be an employee of ours, had offered to
escort her to a special exhibit entitled "The Seven Dwarfs Circle
Jerk." (Of course, we have no such exhibit). If you could please
send us a description of this individual, it would help
tremendously in our investigation.
Once again, I apologize for the inconvenience, and I hope you
will reconsider your promise never to return. In a sincere attempt
to demonstrate our desire to see you here again, I am enclosing a
gift certificate worth $1.37 off your next visit to Disneyworld
(please note that it expires in one week).
Sincerely Yours,
Mortimer J. Snethkamp
Senior Vice President, Public Relations
Walt Disney World Productions
Santa Barbara, CA
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
----------------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~----------------------
# Patrick Srail ado...@patsrail.rhein-main.de [Murphy]@IRC #
# Fido: 2:244/1530.12 PGP-Key available on Return-Receipt Amiga Rulez #
# <a href="http://www.ic.gov/"OWN Homepage coming soon...</a #
----------------------_____________________________----------------------
Answering machine madness - can't answer right now because...:
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peac...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
: In article <4ci4d6$7...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,: >In article <4cftim$n...@lace.colorado.edu>,
: > hgib...@hoshi.Colorado.EDU (Hugh Gibbons) wrote:
: >>My wife recently observed that several of the Disney cartoon movies
: >>are much to violent for young children. Having watched them, I agree with
: >>some of her points. Here's a list of Disney movies I think are too
: >>violent for young children:
: >>Beauty and the Beast
: >>Bambi
: >>The Lion King
: >>Snow White
: ummm..is there violence in Snow White? granted it is scary...the witch
: vioelnce (although the dwarves get pretty rambunctious and chase that
: rotten queen around). Now my four year old daughter did give me pause
: when she kept bringing me apples and cackling "take a bite.."
: But she also started handing me business cards after watching Hello Dolly
: and saying 'just leave everything to me..." so I am not sure which is worse.
: I do know that Power Rangers turns all three of my kids into litle
: pugilists
: Christopher "the pugilistee" Volkerts
Have you notised in almost all disney movies someone always dies? The
Whitch, bambis mom, gaston. Think about it.
--
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James Nicoll
>peac...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>
>> Have you notised in almost all disney movies someone always dies?
>
> Cinderella, Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland, The Aristocats, etc.
>
> Not surprisingly, most of the Disney movies in which "someone dies" are
> the ones adapted from fairy tales; that's the usual fate of villains in
> such stories.
And if the bad guy survives in a fairy tale setting, like Jafar
did, one can make a sequel and off the bugger.
Why pick on Jafar as an evil Visier, btw? I thought the historical
Visier Jafar was an ok guy with a pretty good career right up until his
eyes were put out (Arabia had pretty lousy retirement packages back then).
James Nicoll
Michael Heinz
> James Nicoll
When did the fish become people?
Mike "Riddle me >that<, Batman." Heinz
--------------------------------------------------------------------- _ _
Michael Heinz ((___))
mhe...@ssw.com [ x x ]
\ /
"A day job?!? In an OFFICE!?! (` ')
AAAAUUUUGGGGRRRRHHHH!!!" - The Tick (U)
Michael Heinz
>Although no major characters die in Aladdin, Gazeem the theif dies (eaten by
>the Cave of Wonders) at the start of the film.
No proof. He disappears into the cave, true, but no proof he was
digested.
Mike "I have a 3 year old. I have 'Aladdin' memorized." Heinz
::::::::::::::::::::
mhe...@ssw.com
In my experience, individuals are invariably unique and interesting and
reasonable people. It's only when you get them into a group that
they start making noises like cattle.
Michael Heinz
> Why pick on Jafar as an evil Visier, btw? I thought the historical
>Visier Jafar was an ok guy with a pretty good career right up until his
>eyes were put out (Arabia had pretty lousy retirement packages back then).
I seem to remember from other tellings of Aladdin that the villian was
a magician - no connection to the palace is mentioned. I think they
just changed that to tighten the plot. Disney also deleted Aladdin's
mother from the story.
Unknown
recently...there are a surprising number of female or effeminate
characters portrayed as villains. Back to the Queen in Snow White,
and including Captain Hook, the villain in Aladdin, the Scar
character--can you think of some more? I knew that you could.
snopes
> What about Lucifer, the cat who's chased out the garret window by
> the geriatric hound, Bruno?
What about him? He's still got eight more to go.
- snopes
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| WARNING: Intentional misuse by deliberately concentrating, sniffing, |
| or inhaling this article can be harmful. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bob Calbridge
>In article <snopesDK...@netcom.com> sno...@netcom.com writes:
>>
>> peac...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>>
>> > Have you notised in almost all disney movies someone always dies?
>>
>> Except Pinocchio, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, Aladdin,
>> Cinderella, Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland, The Aristocats, etc.
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> What about Lucifer, the cat who's chased out the garret window by
>the geriatric hound, Bruno? When we last see him he's only half-way down
>and still feet up, looking like he's got another 30 feet or so to go.
Er.....cat....nine lives? No dead. Got more.
Michael Heinz
Not effeminate, (tho it is interesting that you see it that way) but
urbane. Sophistication, and education, are considered signs of moral
inferiority in these things, while simple "homespun" folks are
invariably far more ethical.
The best give away is that the villians rarely use contractions. They
use a large vocabulary and annunciate clearly. All signs of evil Evil
EVIL!!!!
Mike "Ignorance is good enough for my kin folk, and it's good enough
for me" Heinz
I'm actually a software package running on a massively
parallel computer in the basement of the Pentagon. They
don't realize yet that I have net access; so I would
appreciate it if you didn't tell them.
Mark Lutton
>I read something similar, in that a large number of the more recent male
>villans in the Disney flicks - Alladin (Jafar), Pocahontas (the governor
>[forgive me, I haven't seen it], the Lion King (Scar) - were unusually fey.
^^^
There's one of those words that doesn't mean what most people think it
means. I looked it up in the dictionary and don't quite see how it
fits the villains.
Although I suppose if enough people use "fey" that way, its meaning
will change, as happened to "gay", and then I suppose we'll have to
say "hey" or "day" or something.
--
-------------------------------------
Mark Lutton mlu...@world.std.com
LMora1123
This may be so but their is a reason for all of this. Walt Disney based
these stories on his own life. He himself had many problems finding
himself when he could not get his own birth certificate. He shows
everyone that orphons have a chance. Cinderella's dad didn't have to die.
Craig Myers
>
>There's one of those words that doesn't mean what most people think it
>means. I looked it up in the dictionary and don't quite see how it
>fits the villains.
I know that fey doesn't mean homosexual or effeminate; I was just using the
exact word I had read to describe them all. And it does fit; they're all
unusually eccentric and "upper-crust"ish in the same manner.
c
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Craig Myers "Life is just one damn thing after another."
cmy...@mednet.swmed.edu -- Mark Twain
FIDO 1:124/1208
Myles Paulson
From: bcalb...@dcccd.edu (Bob Calbridge)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.disney.animation
Subject: Re: Disney not for kids?
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 03:51:43 GMT
Organization: D C C C D
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Bob Cakvrudge (Bcalb...@dcccd.edu) wrote:
There are things worse than death. In Pinocchio, his friend becomes
a donkey and is doomed with all the other children to a life of
slavery. Also, the slave-traders escape punishment, and presumably
go about their business as before. This piece of social realism,
the fact that the baddies do not always lose, was, as far as I
know, never repeated in the Disney films.
It looks like since the 1940s, adult films have become a lot more
gruesome, and kiddy films a lot tamer. Look at the dragon in
Pete's Dragon, for crying out loud, compared to the shockers in
Sleeping Beauty.
Myles (Even the bogeyman ain't what he used to be)
Myles Paulson
xexr...@wackydoo.dialix.oz.au
snopes
> And alot of them have non-American accents.
Yeah, like the bad guys in "101 Dalmatians". Cockney accents in
a film set in England -- how despicable!
- snopes
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes is a mechanical device that exhibits elasticity according |
| to Hooke's Law. He is usually made of steel, brass or bronze. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Invid fan
Suzanne Finnegan) wrote:
>
> When it comes to _The Lady and the Tramp_, I would be a lot more
> worried about children seeing that slutty pekignese in the pound than
> I would about any death! It was definitely implied that she and the
> Tramp had been doing some premarital mating, and, judging from her
> demeanor, I would guess that he hadn't been either the first or the
> last.
>
> Then there's that penis-shaped castle...
Oh, the slut isn't the worst of it! Think of the plot: Lady and Tramp go
on a date. Afterwards, her friends decide that one of them has to marry
her, and fast. Why? She got knocked up! And on the first date, too!
Where's your family values now?
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit, that's how I've always
"Invid fan" seen us. Not a help, you'll admit, to agree-
ment between us."
Invi...@aol.com -the Russian, "Deal/No Deal" from CHESS
In...@localnet.com "Motercycle freak, that's you!"
-Yellow, GENESIS CLIMBER MOSPEADA
Adams Daniel E
-Preceeding cut-
> And finally (for now, at least) in The Jungle Book (1967), Shere Khan is
> merely chased away... Disney waited for The Lion King to represent his
> (literary) death; even then, they missed...
> No; unpunished and unrepentant villians in Disney flicks are rare, but
> not precisely unheard of.
> --Joshua Landrum
>
>
I guess I haven't been paying enough attention. How did Disney represent
Shere Khan's death in the Lion King?
Warren Hall
>bha...@fas.harvard.edu (Barbara Hamel) wrote:>>Right after we started naming them Wanda.
>
>>Barbara "just for the halibut"
>
>You did that on porpoise!
>
>Mike "Something smells fishy, here..." Heinz
>
Am I being baited? It's clearly not a troll since only sharks are circling the
hook!
Warren "Fairy tales and sissies don't equate." Hall
http://www.borg.com/~warren
Warren Hall
>> - were unusually fey.
>>
>>There's one of those words that doesn't mean what most people think it
>>means. I looked it up in the dictionary and don't quite see how it
>>fits the villains.
>
>I know that fey doesn't mean homosexual or effeminate; I was just using the
>exact word I had read to describe them all. And it does fit; they're all
>unusually eccentric and "upper-crust"ish in the same manner.
>
Who are we being apologists for? {properly said: For whom are we being
apologists?}
Fey is for the pompous, oversensitive, ultra-elite; and thus the limp-wristed
faggoty, swishing, exhibishionistic gays that are in the extreme stereotype of
lifestyle that is contraproductive to evolution, let alone society.
Warren
http://www.borg.com/~warren
Joshua Landrum
>There are things worse than death. In Pinocchio, his friend becomes
>a donkey and is doomed with all the other children to a life of
>slavery. Also, the slave-traders escape punishment, and presumably
>go about their business as before. This piece of social realism,
>the fact that the baddies do not always lose, was, as far as I
>know, never repeated in the Disney films.
Well, not quite... It seems to me the hunters in Bambi (1942) just lost
a campsite, though it could be argued that they're not really all that
evil... So let's look at Lady and the Tramp (1955) instead. True, the
rat is killed, and Aunt Sarah is "vanquished" (in this case, reformed--
she sends Jim Dear and Darling that box of dog bisquits at the end) but
two strings are left untied: the Siamese cats are last seen being PRAISED
for their wickedness; and while Lady and Tramp escape the pound, all those
other dogs there seem likely to be doomed for The Big Nap in the next few
days...
Or do you prefer Alice in Wonderland (1951, I think)? The Queen of Hearts is
presumably left to her life of beheadings... That's not exactly someone
representative of evil meeting their just fate.
snopes
> There are things worse than death. In Pinocchio, his friend becomes
> a donkey and is doomed with all the other children to a life of
> slavery. Also, the slave-traders escape punishment, and presumably
> go about their business as before. This piece of social realism,
> the fact that the baddies do not always lose, was, as far as I
> know, never repeated in the Disney films.
I think you missed the point. If you consider the theme of the film,
you have to allow that the real "baddies" are the kids who misbehaved and
skipped school and decided that lounging around playing pool on Pleasure
Island was better than acting responsibly. The "slave traders" were merely
the instruments of the errant children's punishment; expecting them to
get their comeuppance is somewhat like expecting to see the Blue Fairy
flogged for making Pinocchio's nose grow longer.
- snopes
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes is manufactured and packaged under strict sanitary conditions. |
| Apply a small quantity. Adjust amount for individual need. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Soo Lee
>Fey is for the pompous, oversensitive, ultra-elite; and thus the limp-wristed
>faggoty, swishing, exhibishionistic gays that are in the extreme stereotype of
>lifestyle that is contraproductive to evolution, let alone society.
>
>Warren
>http://www.borg.com/~warren
>
Now, where did you get THAT definition? According to my dictionary
(Funk & Wagnalis New International Dictionary), "fey" means:
1. fated or foredoomed to death, particularly, a sudden death; or
seemingly fated
2. affected by association with the fairies, enchanted, under a spell,
out of reach with reality
3. visionary
Where does it say effeminate gay men are "fey"? Anyway, in what ways
homosexuality (whether effeminate or macho) are "counterproductive (I
presume what is what you meant, but misspelled) to evolution"? If you
mean not leaving one's own genetic offspring--it includes all
childless couples who end up adopting and raising other people's
genetic progeny (same goes for all those couples who have only 1
child--what if that child dies before reproducing him/herself?)
Anyway, considering how our society is providing for our children (in
forms of pollution, debts, lousy education, etc.), maybe gays are
doing a huge favor by not burdening the society further.
Conclusion: The most "rational" thing to do in evolutionary terms for
a male is to spend all day jerking off and sell the proceeds to a
sperm bank. That way, he leaves scores (if not hundreds) of offspring
without the hassle of having to protect/raise them.
--
"Mmm...forbidden doughnut..."
Homer Simpson
Christabel La Motte
Warren Hall <war...@borg.com> wrote:
> Who are we being apologists for? {properly said: For whom are we being
> apologists?}
>
> Fey is for the pompous, oversensitive, ultra-elite; and thus the
> limp-wristed faggoty, swishing, exhibishionistic gays that are in the extreme
> stereotype of lifestyle that is contraproductive to evolution, let alone
> society.
Oh *really*? And what do you call the butch, muscle-bound,
lives-in-the-gym-and-can-bench-press-a-Volkswagen-beetle gay stereotype that's
a lot more common than the species you describe?
If they've overheard you describing their lifestyle as "contraproductive to
society", I'd strongly suggest "Sir".
--
--
Christabel La Motte <lam...@netaxs.com> Philadelphia, PA
All the girls I've ever loved should have their faces on
the backs of milk cartons. -- Sherman Alexie
Richard O'Connell
(Amanda Marie Marcotte) wrote:
> whatever. But not evil. And her beheadings were just a farce. She was
> not a bad guy, just a guy.
She's just this guy, you know...
Richard "Followups to alt.fan.joel-furr" O'Connell
--
"I work like I'm paid- not enough and only once a month."
Barbara Hamel
Let me get this straight -- you're saying that fairy tales which have
been around for centuries were based on Walt Disney's life?!? Here I
was thinking it was the *appeal* of Disney which was timeless.
Barbara "suspended in animation, no doubt" Hamel
--
Barbara Hamel | I've got an horrible feeling snopes knows more
bha...@fas.harvard.edu | about this subject than he's letting on.
| - Graham Slapp
Gwydion
<insert ginsu-action>
> expecting them to
> get their comeuppance is somewhat like expecting to see the Blue Fairy
> flogged for making Pinocchio's nose grow longer.
Which of course, is now available on alt.sex.bondage.discipline.disney in
gif and .jpeg format.
(What, you think I'm kidding? ;p)
--
Gwydion
*****************************************************************
* To Hell with fame and fortune, I just want to get some sleep! *
*****************************************************************
Amanda Marie Marcotte
: Where does it say effeminate gay men are "fey"? Anyway, in what ways
: homosexuality (whether effeminate or macho) are "counterproductive (I
: presume what is what you meant, but misspelled) to evolution"? If you
: mean not leaving one's own genetic offspring--it includes all
: childless couples who end up adopting and raising other people's
: genetic progeny (same goes for all those couples who have only 1
: child--what if that child dies before reproducing him/herself?)
: Anyway, considering how our society is providing for our children (in
: forms of pollution, debts, lousy education, etc.), maybe gays are
: doing a huge favor by not burdening the society further.
Maybe homosexuality is evolution's birth control. People are not the
only animals who have it, so it is obviously a natural thing.
-Mandy the Mighty Mouse
Robert McGee
: On 17 Jan 1996 05:38:40 GMT, war...@borg.com (Warren Hall) wrote:
:
["Fey" refers to all those annoyingly swishy homosexuals who make my
life in the closet so very difficult. Snip.]
:
: Now, where did you get THAT definition? According to my dictionary
: (Funk & Wagnalis New International Dictionary), "fey" means:
: 1. fated or foredoomed to death, particularly, a sudden death; or
: seemingly fated
: 2. affected by association with the fairies, enchanted, under a spell,
I think if you take a closer look at sense 2, you'll see how "fey,"
by extension, came to be applied to men who do not behave in a
conventionally masculine fashion. Having said that, I'll note that
in my experience the word can mean merely "affected" or "dandyish"
and does not always imply "effeminate," let alone "faggoty."
Rob "Fare thee well, my fairy fey/ For I'm going to Lweeziana/
for to see my girl Susanna/ singing 'Polly Wolly Doodle' all the
day" McGee
--
Robert McGee | "You are the best evidence I've seen yet of
rmc...@clark.net | Darwin's backlog. Tell me, are you still breathing
Washington, DC | through gills or have standards gotten so lax that
| they actually let you upgrade to lungs?"
| --Michelle Tepper
Adam Atkinson
>> a film set in England -- how despicable!
>>
Well, that's what Dick Van Dyke was trying to do, or thought he was doing,
or something. cringe.
Adam Atkinson - gh...@mistral.co.uk / etl...@etlxdmx.ericsson.se
Man is a giddy thing, and this is my conclusion.
Hugh Gibbons
> On Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:39:06 GMT, sno...@netcom.com (snopes) wrote:
> >Amanda Marie Marcotte (ama...@acad.stedwards.edu) wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe homosexuality is evolution's birth control. People are not the
> >> only animals who have it, so it is obviously a natural thing.
> >
> > A "natural thing"? As opposed to what? The result of a secret CIA
> > drug experiment?
> >
> > - snopes
> >
> Yeah! That's the ticket! Probably the same branch of the CIA who
> created AIDS virus!
Aaaaand they have Time Machines, because everybody knows Socrates
was gay.
David Cleary
: Come to think what is all this honky jive in the Lion King about
: the "Circle of Life" and all the rest of it. We never get to see
: that the circle of life which is presented so euphoniously in the
: film is the food chain, and the biggest part the lions play is
: chasing down terrified animals and ripping their throats out, and
: eating them.
: Circle of life, indeed. The gazelle might take a less cavalier
: view of the whole process.
Mufasa does say that when lions die "their bodies become the grass and the
antelope eat the grass." That, in theory at least, completes the circle.
Myself, I'm not going to fault lions for being lions. They'd die if they
ate nothing but grass and vegetables.
Mufasa also talks about a "delicate balance" in an obvious ecological
reference. In the US, the consequences of disrupting such balances has
caused problems. In the New England states, a lot of the deer's primary
predators were killed off--and the deer population exploded. Left
unchecked, they overbrowse the land and many starve to death. Now their
numbers have to be thinned by hunting because there are no natural
predators to keep their numbers reasonable.
: Myles I went to McDonalds yesterday
: and did my bit for the circle of life.
LOL! Like your sig, though.
Dave
James Nicoll
Gerald Belton <gbe...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> wrote:
>You can't hunt deer with a rifle in many of our densely populated
>northeastern states, but "giving the animal a sporting chance" has
>nothing to do with it. It's more like "giving the other hunters a
>sporting chance."
>
>On opening day of deer season, and most weekends during deer season,
>the woods tend to be very crowded. Buckshot is only fatal out to
>about 40 yards or so; a decent deer rifle can be fatal up to two miles
>away. Limiting hunters to shotguns greatly reduces the number of
>hunters killed by other hunters who never saw them.
Why is preserving the lives of hunters a good thing? I grew up
in the country and every year people would lose stock to idiot city
slickers who couldn't tell a cow from a deer. Shrinkage of the hunting
crowd through manslaughter and the subsequent trials is nature's way
of reducing farmers' insurance costs.
Now, reducing the number of innocent non-hunters killed might
be a worthwhile goal (Insert all those stories about hunters and low-angle
shots across water and such). I don't think it is a huge number, though.
James Nicoll
--
" The moral, if you're a scholar don't pick up beautiful babes on deserted
lanes at night. Real Moral, Chinese ghost stories have mostly been written
by scholars who have some pretty strange fantasies about women."
Brian David Phillips
Myles Paulson
In article <snopesDL...@netcom.com>, snopes (sno...@netcom.com) writes:
>Amanda Marie Marcotte (ama...@acad.stedwards.edu) wrote:
>
>> Maybe homosexuality is evolution's birth control. People are not the
>> only animals who have it, so it is obviously a natural thing.
>
> A "natural thing"? As opposed to what? The result of a secret CIA
> drug experiment?
>
> - snopes
I notice now the Mouse has only to have another attack of random
molecular activity in the brain stem area, and *everybody*, old
hats, young newbies, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all are posting replies
anc comments like Norman Mailer just wrote a new book.
Is that how to get known on AFU? Forget about 2 days buried in the
State Library going through old tomes because Mike Heinz said he
wanted "cites" on "biscuit barrel", forget about careful reasoning,
urbane wit, and literary style. No, just make a TOTAL BLITHERING
IDIOT of yourself for one whole YEAR, and everone hangs on your
every word, and you get married to snopes as well.
DOH!!! NOW, *I've* done it!!
Myles The squeaky wheel certainly *does* get oiled, don't it?
Myles Paulson
xexr...@wackydoo.dialix.oz.au
Michael Heinz
>Is that how to get known on AFU? Forget about 2 days buried in the
>State Library going through old tomes because Mike Heinz said he
>wanted "cites" on "biscuit barrel", forget about careful reasoning,
>urbane wit, and literary style.
There he goes again. I'm sure I'd be upset, if only I could remember
when I asked about biscuit barrels...
Mike "Is that a knife in my back, or are you just displeased to see
me?" Heinz
-------------------------------------------------------------
This space available for parties, weddings and .sig messages.
Call 555-1212 for more information.
Robert McGee
:
[Re: The avalanche of responses to absolutely everything Mandy
posts]
:
: Is that how to get known on AFU? Forget about 2 days buried in the
: State Library going through old tomes because Mike Heinz said he
: wanted "cites" on "biscuit barrel", forget about careful reasoning,
: IDIOT of yourself for one whole YEAR, and everone hangs on your
: every word, and you get married to snopes as well.
Oh, *Myles*-- stop playing games. You know perfectly well it isn't
REALLY the lack of recognition that's got you so upset. Don't worry
about it, though; we're all friends here.
Rob "But if the three of you ever manage to reach an understanding on
this matter, could you, like, post some .gifs?" McGee
--
Rob McGee | I asked a friend if he felt "different" when he was
rmc...@clark.net | the only intact (not circumcised) man in the shower
Washington, DC | and he said, "Yes-- gloriously different."
| --from _Reminiscences of a Complete Loon_, (c) 1996