boys swimming nude in high school pool

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K. D.

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Oct 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/27/99
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My high school had a swimming pool, and part of PE involved weekly swim
class. As for most PE classes, swim was not co-ed. We girls brought our
own towels and other necessities, but were given suits every swim period,
which we turned in at the end of class to be laundered.

The door from the boys' locker room to the pool was locked when the girls
had swim, and vice versa, for obvious reasons. But, especially since it was
common knowledge that the boys wore NOTHING during swim class. Zip. Nada.
In the buff.

A former male classmate of mine came through town a few years ago, and spent
the night at our house. The topic of the boys wearing nothing for swim
class somehow came up, and my husband could NOT believe it. He said that he
wore a suit in his HS swim class, and was convinced that the story of the
boys wearing nothing was a massive joke perpetuated by the boys to tease the
girls. No amount of persuading would convince him.

In my particular graduating class, the knowledge of the boys swimming nude
was especially well-known due to an incident, which was so memorable that it
was specially mentioned by the M-C at our 20-year reunion. One of the male
members of the swim team was planning on doing some extra swimming during a
free period he had one day. Thru an incredible coincidence, he was unaware
that a girls' class was currently in the pool, but more importantly for some
unknown and unlucky reason, the door from the boys' locker room had been
left unlocked. You guessed it -- he walked into the girls' swim class stark
naked!

Even telling my husband of this story would not convince him. Two years
later, we were in Seattle, and visited another former male classmate of
mine, who verified the story of the males swimming nude. My husband remains
convinced (so he says), to this day, that it isn't true.

I can't PROVE they swam nude, but we always accepted it as truth. My
brother-in-law, who went to the HS on the other side of town, reports that
they wore suits in swim.

Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
importantly, WHY was it done?

Bob Graham

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Oct 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/27/99
to K. D.
K - Can't attest to high school but it WAS the practice at the YMCA is Boise,
Idaho when I was growing up. It was exactly as you described it. That was hmmmm
-- about 60 years ago.

Aloha - bob \ooo_

"K. D." wrote:

--
-------
<http://home.hawaii.rr.com/bgraham/>

Loomis Farkle

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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In article <7v8jfl$3so8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> K. D.,

flowrchi...@prodigy.net writes:
>My high school had a swimming pool, and part of PE involved weekly swim
>class. As for most PE classes, swim was not co-ed. We girls brought our
>own towels and other necessities, but were given suits every swim period,
>which we turned in at the end of class to be laundered.
>
>The door from the boys' locker room to the pool was locked when the girls
>had swim, and vice versa, for obvious reasons. But, especially since it was
>common knowledge that the boys wore NOTHING during swim class. Zip.
>
(snip)

>
>Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
>importantly, WHY was it done?
>
I started college in South Dakota in the late 60零 -- not too long after
the school went coed. The swimming pool was in the basement of the gym
and was very hot (think boiler rooms and such). Until the pool was
opened up to all sexes (this was South Dakota -- don靖 ask), swimming
suits weren靖 allowed because they didn靖 want to clog up the filters and
drains with any stray material that might become detached from said
suits. On a normal suit, this isn靖 going to happen; however, it was
kind of hard to convince some of us farmboys that those cutoff jeans we
had been wearing into the creek for 18 years were not, in fact, official
swimming suits. At least, that零 what Coach Bruce and Coach Lance told
us.

Cyclone Ambiguous

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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> At least, thatąs what Coach Bruce and Coach Lance told
>us.

Did Coach Julian have any say in the matter?

Cyclone Ambiguous
In prophecy of FF9's main character
Slighly repentant Sadist in Chief of the EAC and High Bakesale Coordinator
The Supreme Clone of the Church of Jenova's Witnesses
Wondering why AOL limits me to a 254 character sig in ngs

HWM

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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"K. D." wrote:

> Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice?

On a little side-step the Yrjönkatu Baths reopened in Helsinki after a
massive renovation. Before according to ancient practices no swimming
suits were allowed in the hall. Now the Helsinki board or something or
whatever tried to introduce co-ed suited swimming, and finally the
patrons even got the bureau of Museums and Antiquities to step in and
say that no renovations may be made to acommodate the co-edness. So it
is in the buff. The baths, be seen at a glimpse in a scene from "Gorky
Park".

I dare your husband there when he is in Helsinki... history is made at
night.
--
Cheers, | The conformity of purpose will be achieved |
HWM | through the mutual satisfaction of requirements.|
"Mind the gap"=> hen...@iobox.fi & http://www.kuru.da.ru

Lars Eighner

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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In our last episode <7v8jfl$3so8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
the lovely and talented "K. D." <flowrchi...@prodigy.net>
broadcast on alt.folklore.urban:

|Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
|importantly, WHY was it done?


It has been mumbltey-mumbltey years since I was in school, but back
in those duck-and-cover days, guys did swim nude in class (in Houston)
public schools. The team, however, had itty-bitty things that
make Speedos seem modest, because -- I guess -- practice was
generally open to parents and such. Besides which, in practicing
for competitive swimming there was the issue -- I suppose --
of ... uh ... streamlining.

In public schools, I guess, the expense was a factor. And I suspect
there was some concern about what a wet bathing suit in a locker
would do over a weekend -- this was Houston before the schools
were air conditioned. Sox, jocks, and shorts could get pretty
ripe, and a wet bathing suit in the mix would be asking for trouble.
Moreover, at that time, just about every dad had been in the
military in the war and the draft was still on so it was expected
that every boy would be in the military so you might as well admit
you were a communist as object to the practice -- in fact I think
I did hear an objection or two on the grounds of modesty, and
the answer always was "Well, what is he going to do when he
is in the Army and has to shower with a hundred guys?"

--
Lars Eighner 700 Hearn #101 Austin TX 78703 eig...@io.com
(512) 474-1920 (FAX answers 6th ring) http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner/
Please visit my web bookstore: http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner/bookstore/
Don't care if it's true - just love it. --Eric Hocking

Intheway1

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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>|Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
>|importantly, WHY was it done?
>

The standard explanation given at my college for the "no suit" rule (which was
officially dropped in the early 1960s) was the risk of clogging the pool
filter. Several of the older faculty members (all male) continued to swim nude
after that during times when the pool was not in use by a class or the swim
team.

The school was not co-ed until 1970, when a local variant of the legend
immediately appeared. According to the story, during the first week of school
after co-education was introduced, several professors went for their daily
swim. Included in this group was one who was legally blind. While the others
were still changing into their suits, he stripped down, removed his very thick
eyeglasses and left the locker room.[1] Hearing voices from across the pool,
the professor waved and shouted "Good morning, gentlemen" to a line-up of
Freshman women. He stood there smiling and waving until a second professor
arrived and shoved him into the pool.

Fred "Comparative Anatomy is not on the schedule" Wilhelms

[1] Given the permanent ambience of this locker room, the fear of adding drying
bathing suits to the olfactory mix was probably not a factor in the change of
the "no suit" rule.

K. D.

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Lars Eighner wrote in message <9oCG4AwZ...@io.com>...

>In public schools, I guess, the expense was a factor. And I suspect
>there was some concern about what a wet bathing suit in a locker
>would do over a weekend -- this was Houston before the schools
>were air conditioned.

Yes, the concern over expense does make sense. But, the girls in my HS were
given towels and suits each swim period, which were collected and laundered,
so I'm assuming that the boys were given towels, at least.

>Moreover, at that time, just about every dad had been in the
>military in the war and the draft was still on so it was expected
>that every boy would be in the military so you might as well admit
>you were a communist as object to the practice -- in fact I think
>I did hear an objection or two on the grounds of modesty, and
>the answer always was "Well, what is he going to do when he
>is in the Army and has to shower with a hundred guys?"

This is a good insight. (I especially love the remark about being a
communist!) Even if not preparing them for the army, my male friends
surmised that the exercise in nude swimming had something to do with making
them into men.

Ah ha! And now I remember how the conversation started (about boys swimming
nude) with my visiting friend! He was saying that he had overheard some
female students who were horrified at the shower accommodations in the dorm
where they were living. Since the school had originally been male only, the
dorms had all been designed and built with male students in mind. Some of
the bathrooms had not been redesigned since then, and naturally there were
no partitions (much less curtains!) in the communal showers.

Andrea Jones

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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K. D. wrote in message <7v9j2r$1jas$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...

>
>Lars Eighner wrote in message <9oCG4AwZ...@io.com>...
>>Moreover, at that time, just about every dad had been in the
>>military in the war and the draft was still on so it was expected
>>that every boy would be in the military so you might as well admit
>>you were a communist as object to the practice -- in fact I think
>>I did hear an objection or two on the grounds of modesty, and
>>the answer always was "Well, what is he going to do when he
>>is in the Army and has to shower with a hundred guys?"
>
>This is a good insight. (I especially love the remark about being a
>communist!) Even if not preparing them for the army, my male friends
>surmised that the exercise in nude swimming had something to do with making
>them into men.
>
>Ah ha! And now I remember how the conversation started (about boys
swimming
>nude) with my visiting friend! He was saying that he had overheard some
>female students who were horrified at the shower accommodations in the dorm
>where they were living. Since the school had originally been male only,
the
>dorms had all been designed and built with male students in mind. Some of
>the bathrooms had not been redesigned since then, and naturally there were
>no partitions (much less curtains!) in the communal showers.
I honestly fail to see why women should expect private showers, while men
are supposedly ok with the communal shower thing. Especially given that in
my experience, men tend to be more violently worried about homosexuality.
Then again, I spent my first year in the Navy without my own shower, and you
lose a lot of squeamishness when your options are either group showers or no
showers at all.

Andrea "I'm still willing to kill for a bathtub." Jones

Thomas J. Wood

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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In the past males swam in rivers, lakes and pools nekkid routinely and no one
thought anything of it. Suits were only worn if ladies were present. But
sometimes not even then. I have a book with a ca. 1910 photo taken in a German
army officer's club. The men are all swimming butt nekkid, while women and
children watch.

Today men are much more homophobic than in the past. You can see this fear
growing in the 20th century by looking at group photos of sports teams or
fraternities over the years. In the early part of the century the guys are all
over each other; nowadays you rarely see any physical contact.

--
Tom Wood

Alan W. Holmes

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:24:58 -0500, "K. D."
<flowrchi...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
>importantly, WHY was it done?
>

In my high school (mid-late sixties) we wore swimsuits, which wre
issued for each class and laundered by the school.

In an earlier period (I think around 1960) I took swim classes in the
YMCA in Utica NY, and students swam nude. Classes were, obviously,
male only. I cannot remember for sure if the instructors wore suits,
but I think they did. In this case, I suspect that it was for expense
reasons, but I have no cite to back it up.

Alan Holmes
awho...@erols.com

K. D.

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Alan W. Holmes wrote in message <38186b3a...@news.erols.com>

>In my high school (mid-late sixties) we wore swimsuits, which wre
>issued for each class and laundered by the school.
>
>In an earlier period (I think around 1960) I took swim classes in the
>YMCA in Utica NY, and students swam nude. Classes were, obviously,
>male only. I cannot remember for sure if the instructors wore suits,
>but I think they did. In this case, I suspect that it was for expense
>reasons, but I have no cite to back it up.

Part of what interests me over this whole topic is various people's
reactions to it. While, as female students in the same school, we were
somewhat puzzled and horrified at the thought of the boys swimming nude, we
accepted it as "just the way it is."

My bro-in-law, same town, different school district, was surprised and
perplexed to learn of the practice, since the boys at HIS school wore suits.
I think it is no coincidence that he lived on the more affluent side of
town, and we were always aware that we were the "poorer" school.

Other females, and some males (i.e., my husband) are absolutely incredulous
that this practice occurred. Obviously, from the posts here, it was very
common in the post-WWII era, even up through the Viet Nam era.

While we're on the topic, other posters have suggested the ban had something
to do with preventing the filtration system from clogging. This makes some
sense (even if it isn't actually true), because even tho the girls were
provided with suits (which arguably could clog the filtration system as much
as boys' suits), we did have to wear bathing caps. Since they don't usually
keep your hair dry (a possible rationale) the reason was given that our hair
would clog the filtration system. I can't remember about other places I
have gone to swim, but the pool I use regularly now has nothing at all
posted about a requirement to wear a bathing cap. Some women do. I think
some men even do. But the vast majority don't. I guess either the reason
about potential clogging of the filtration system was never valid, or
filtration systems have improved, or both.


K. D.

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Thomas J. Wood wrote in message <38186CAC...@uis.edu>...

>
>Today men are much more homophobic than in the past. You can see this fear
>growing in the 20th century by looking at group photos of sports teams or
>fraternities over the years. In the early part of the century the guys are
all
>over each other; nowadays you rarely see any physical contact.
>
You have touched on (no pun intended) a topic I suspected had something to
do with this entire aspect of male fraternity / sports / bonding. The
homophobia.

During these various discussions of male nudity while swimming and in locker
rooms, etc., the topic did arise (again, no double entendre intended --
yeah, right) about the fact that a male would have been branded for life had
he to show any obvious signs of arousal while in the company of a bunch of
other naked males.

That some young males unarguably were aroused by the nudity of their male
classmates, but were seemingly able to prevent themselves from showing their
admiration somewhat dispels the "myth" that we girls heard during the same
years of "I can't help it -- 'it' is out of my control."

Ralph Jones

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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"K. D." wrote:

> [snip]

> I can't PROVE they swam nude, but we always accepted it as truth. My
> brother-in-law, who went to the HS on the other side of town, reports that
> they wore suits in swim.
>

> Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
> importantly, WHY was it done?

My high school had no pool (it was in Miami and practically everybody could swim
already), but in my freshman year at Georgia Tech (1958/59), PE included one
quarter of swimming and the pool was "suits optional, so you can wear one if
you're really a sissy". We were given the usual line about clogging the filter,
but I think the real motivation was that the hot Georgia weather, plus the
dampness of a locker room, was germ heaven.

We had the same story about the guy walking nekkid into the wrong place, and
people who had been to other nude pool sites told it too.

The school had received its first women students only 6 years before, and this
was the first year they were offered the swim course. At first women-only hours
were set up; later, men's nude use was restricted to shorter hours so they could
have mixed swimming and finally skinnydipping was a thing of the past.

rj


Jim Everman

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Andrea Jones wrote:
>
> I honestly fail to see why women should expect private showers, while men
> are supposedly ok with the communal shower thing. Especially given that in
> my experience, men tend to be more violently worried about homosexuality.
> Then again, I spent my first year in the Navy without my own shower, and you
> lose a lot of squeamishness when your options are either group showers or no
> showers at all.
>
> Andrea "I'm still willing to kill for a bathtub." Jones


I took a tour of a nuclear research reactor once - W-P Air Force
Base, Dayton, Ohio. The tour guide pointed out that they had seperate
decontamination showers for males & females, even though the recomended
procedure was to "run to the shower, stripping as you run. Shower
thoroughly, then don the disposable clothing located at the exit of
the shower."

Even though the showers were free standing devices, side by side,
they were still required by law (UL?) to have seperate facilities.
This was circa 1965, and we all took the guide's word for it.

--
Jim Everman mailto:eve...@Anet-STL.com
http://www.Anet-STL.com/~everman/

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
stupidity.


K. D.

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Ralph Jones wrote in message <381872A9...@qwestinternet.net>...

>
>My high school had no pool (it was in Miami and practically everybody could
swim
>already), but in my freshman year at Georgia Tech (1958/59), PE included
one
>quarter of swimming and the pool was "suits optional, so you can wear one
if
>you're really a sissy".

Some of those old Ga. Tech. group student pictures crack me up -- the young
men do look like a "serious" lot.

If you're not in or near Atlanta any more, I hope you have had a chance to
return, and check out the new (outdoor, but covered) pool, which was built
for the Olympics. I'm pretty sure, suits are no longer "optional."

>We had the same story about the guy walking nekkid into the wrong place,
and
>people who had been to other nude pool sites told it too.

Regarding the story from my HS about the boy walking in nekkid, I can't
swear that it is true (since I didn't SEE it), but I am unaware of anyone in
my class who does not accept it as true. Since it is possible that he
walked in on a class of girls from another year, no one from my class might
have seen it, either. Although I have lost touch with Steve S., I did know
him well in HS. The summer before we both entered junior high, altho we had
not met one another prior to that (having attended different grammar
schools), we had both been involved in accidents, and were on the same
hospital ward. As it turns out, our fathers had known one another for years
(I'm guessing drinking buddies here). This person DOES (or at least DID)
exist, I can vouch for it.

As mentioned, at the 20th reunion, I heard the former classmate who served
as M-C say that the committee who planned the reunion had wanted to give
Steve a special award for the most memorable story from HS (mentioned most
in the questionnaire sent out, which included "what do you remember most
from HS?"). When Steve's response came back from Florida, where he now
lives, he said that he wouldn't be able to attend. Several classmates
called him back, offering to pay for his plane fare, but he never made it.
(Can you blame him?)

I didn't see it happen, and I haven't seen Steve, since we graduated, to ask
him personally. If we both attend the next reunion, I'll ask him, and get
back with you.

JoAnne Schmitz

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:04:46 -0700, "Andrea Jones" <aegi...@email.msn.com>
wrote:

>I honestly fail to see why women should expect private showers, while men
>are supposedly ok with the communal shower thing. Especially given that in
>my experience, men tend to be more violently worried about homosexuality.
>Then again, I spent my first year in the Navy without my own shower, and you
>lose a lot of squeamishness when your options are either group showers or no
>showers at all.

You started awfully young, didn't you? First year, most kids are just learning
to walk and talk a little.

JoAnne "now we know why you're so tired of guard duty" Schmitz

Olivers

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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"Alan W. Holmes" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:24:58 -0500, "K. D."
> <flowrchi...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >
> >Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
> >importantly, WHY was it done?
> >
>
> In my high school (mid-late sixties) we wore swimsuits, which wre
> issued for each class and laundered by the school.
>
> In an earlier period (I think around 1960) I took swim classes in the
> YMCA in Utica NY, and students swam nude. Classes were, obviously,
> male only. I cannot remember for sure if the instructors wore suits,
> but I think they did. In this case, I suspect that it was for expense
> reasons, but I have no cite to back it up.
>
Until early 50s (at least) - "Nude" swimming with shower beforehand
required at Waco's YMCA, the communicated justification being
cleanliness, not letting dirty boys or suits in the clean pool.

1950 or so - Nude swimming at YMCA camp, North Bosque River near Valley
Mills during week, but suits required on visitors days.

1920s - at least 1957 - Nude swimming permitted at Camp Stewart for Boys
Beginners and Junior "Pools" (actually portions of North Fork of
Guadelupe) near Hunt, Texas on non-visiting days. Suits required at
Senior "Pool" due to visibility.

I suspect that while "Homophobia" may have been no less prevalent, the
customs, traditions and precedents of local culturen outweighed societal
concerns.

--
Olivers/SWRSO
"When you waltz across Texas,
the beer tastes better at closing time."


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Andrea Jones

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Jim Everman wrote in message <381875...@anet-stl.com>...

>Andrea Jones wrote:
>>
>> I honestly fail to see why women should expect private showers, while men
>> are supposedly ok with the communal shower thing. Especially given that
in
>> my experience, men tend to be more violently worried about homosexuality.
>> Then again, I spent my first year in the Navy without my own shower, and
you
>> lose a lot of squeamishness when your options are either group showers or
no
>> showers at all.
>>
>> Andrea "I'm still willing to kill for a bathtub." Jones
>
>
> I took a tour of a nuclear research reactor once - W-P Air Force
>Base, Dayton, Ohio. The tour guide pointed out that they had seperate
>decontamination showers for males & females, even though the recomended
>procedure was to "run to the shower, stripping as you run. Shower
>thoroughly, then don the disposable clothing located at the exit of
>the shower."
>
> Even though the showers were free standing devices, side by side,
>they were still required by law (UL?) to have seperate facilities.
>This was circa 1965, and we all took the guide's word for it.
Small misunderstanding here. I wasn't referring to co-ed showers, I was
referring to the complaint in the e-mail I had quoted, wherein the female
students complained that they didn't have individual shower stalls, and this
lack was attributed to the fact that the dorm had been a men's dorm
previously, and the showers weren't "converted" for the women.

Andrea "Although co-ed showers would have made boot camp more interesting"
Jones

Constance S Marshall

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
to
Although this is not exactly high school, Congressman and senators swam
naked in the pool at their gym for many years. there is also a scene in one
of Edmond Crispin's mysteries (The Moving Toyshop? I can check but I'm too
lazy to get up right now) in which a group of Oxford dons, swimming naked in
Parson's Pool, takes off after a murderer and chases him through the town.
ConnieM
K. D. <flowrchi...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7v8jfl$3so8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...

> My high school had a swimming pool, and part of PE involved weekly swim
> class. As for most PE classes, swim was not co-ed. We girls brought our
> own towels and other necessities, but were given suits every swim period,
> which we turned in at the end of class to be laundered.
>
> The door from the boys' locker room to the pool was locked when the girls
> had swim, and vice versa, for obvious reasons. But, especially since it
was
> common knowledge that the boys wore NOTHING during swim class. Zip.
> I can't PROVE they swam nude, but we always accepted it as truth. My
> brother-in-law, who went to the HS on the other side of town, reports that
> they wore suits in swim.
>

Ralph Jones

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
to
Completely forgot to include this in my referenced post:

I went to Camp Cloudmont, a summer camp near Mentone AL mostly populated by Miami
boys, in the summer of 1952. The lake swimming area there was suits optional.

A cousin in Connecticut who worked as a counselor at similar camps in the Northeast
in the late Fifties described the same thing.

rj


Dr H

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, K. D. wrote:

}Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
}importantly, WHY was it done?

Yes, we swam nude in junior high swim classes. On the high school
swim team, however, we wore suits.

As to why... nothing but idle speculation to offer.

Dr H


Dr H

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
to

On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, K. D. wrote:
}
}You have touched on (no pun intended) a topic I suspected had something to
}do with this entire aspect of male fraternity / sports / bonding. The
}homophobia.
}
}During these various discussions of male nudity while swimming and in locker
}rooms, etc., the topic did arise (again, no double entendre intended --
}yeah, right) about the fact that a male would have been branded for life had
}he to show any obvious signs of arousal while in the company of a bunch of
}other naked males.
}
}That some young males unarguably were aroused by the nudity of their male
}classmates, but were seemingly able to prevent themselves from showing their
}admiration somewhat dispels the "myth" that we girls heard during the same
}years of "I can't help it -- 'it' is out of my control."

I imagine that swimming 20-30 100-yard sprints was something of a factor
in 'dampening' any arousal...

Dr H


Dr H

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
to

On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, K. D. wrote:
}
}Lars Eighner wrote in message <9oCG4AwZ...@io.com>...
}
}>In public schools, I guess, the expense was a factor. And I suspect
}>there was some concern about what a wet bathing suit in a locker
}>would do over a weekend -- this was Houston before the schools
}>were air conditioned.
}
}Yes, the concern over expense does make sense. But, the girls in my HS were
}given towels and suits each swim period, which were collected and laundered,
}so I'm assuming that the boys were given towels, at least.

Sometimes we were. But real MEN didn't need towels. :-)

And the other comments about 'showering with 100 guys in the Army'
did jog some memory cells -- I recall hearing similar things as a
lad.

Dr H


R H Draney

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
to
"K. D." wrote:

> While we're on the topic, other posters have suggested the ban had something
> to do with preventing the filtration system from clogging. This makes some
> sense (even if it isn't actually true), because even tho the girls were
> provided with suits (which arguably could clog the filtration system as much
> as boys' suits), we did have to wear bathing caps. Since they don't usually
> keep your hair dry (a possible rationale) the reason was given that our hair
> would clog the filtration system. I can't remember about other places I
> have gone to swim, but the pool I use regularly now has nothing at all
> posted about a requirement to wear a bathing cap. Some women do. I think
> some men even do. But the vast majority don't. I guess either the reason
> about potential clogging of the filtration system was never valid, or
> filtration systems have improved, or both.

And this leads to another silly rule: women were required to wear bathing caps;
men were not...this persisted well into the time when some women were wearing
very short hair and some men went shoulder-length...I believe Dave Berg of Mad
magazine fame illustrated the clash between rule and reality in one of his
"Lighter Side" articles, late 1960s/early 70s....r
--
"I may not know much about art, but I know what they tell me I'm supposed to
like."


K. D.

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Dr H wrote in message ...

>
>On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, K. D. wrote:
>}Yes, the concern over expense does make sense. But, the girls in my HS
were
>}given towels and suits each swim period, which were collected and
laundered,
>}so I'm assuming that the boys were given towels, at least.
>
> Sometimes we were. But real MEN didn't need towels. :-)

Without a doubt. And "real" women need two -- one for body, one for hair.
Guys -- I know this might not make sense to any of you, but believe me, it's
a "girl" thing.

K. D.

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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Dr H wrote in message ...
>
> I imagine that swimming 20-30 100-yard sprints was something of a factor
> in 'dampening' any arousal..

Probably a factor, but what about in the shower BEFORE entering the pool?

John Opalko

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Oct 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/28/99
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In article <7v8jfl$3so8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,

K. D. <flowrchi...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice?

We swam nude at my high school (Chicago Public Schools, 1972). My father,
who attended the same school, said they swam nude in his day, too.

>More importantly, WHY was it done?

Who knows? Probably some male bonding thing. Anyway, it beat having to
wear trunks, but, then, I was an inveterate skinny-dipper at the time.

The girls had to wear these *U*G*L*Y* blue, shapeless things when they swam.
Or so I hear... ;-)


John "'gymnasium' comes from the Greek word for 'naked'" Opalko

--
John Opalko Clear Spring Associates, Ltd.
jo...@clearspring.com McMinnville, Oregon, USA

http://www.clearspring.com/

AFol...@webtv.net

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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In article <7v8jfl$3so8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
"K. D." <flowrchi...@prodigy.net> wrote:

<major snip>

> Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More


> importantly, WHY was it done?
>

I can attest to the practice from Lake View High School, Chicago, forty years
ago. The legendary part was the story that blocks of ice were left to melt
in the pool overnight, for the entertainment of the 8:00 a.m. class.

--
Alan "retrospective goosebumps" Follett


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Nathan F. Miller

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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In article <38186CAC...@uis.edu>,

"Thomas J. Wood" <wo...@uis.edu> wrote:
>
> In the past males swam in rivers, lakes and pools nekkid routinely
and no one
> thought anything of it. Suits were only worn if ladies were present.
But
> sometimes not even then.


Indeed, and I would suspect that talk of threads clogging the drain
are just an excuse not to give up the perfectly natural and virtuously
heathenish practice too soon.
Another thought: Didn't the ancient Greek and Roman atheletes swim
in the nude? And isn't the idea of including "physical education" along
with mental education an aspect of how public education in democratic
societies has been largely rhetorically grounded in respect for old
Athenian ideals of the education of male citizens of the _polis_?
Could it have just been simple copying?

>
> Today men are much more homophobic than in the past. You can see this
fear
> growing in the 20th century by looking at group photos of sports
teams or
> fraternities over the years. In the early part of the century the
guys are all
> over each other; nowadays you rarely see any physical contact.
>

My fifty-something uncle from rural North-West Pennsylvania swears
that when he was a youth, there were "always" circle-jerks in the
weight room of the local YMCA; that "everyone" knew about it (I wonder
if "everyone" really means just the menfolk); that nobody thought there
was anything "gay" about it. I have heard similar stories from other
older guys, one of them saying he was peer-pressured to join in on the
grounds that the other guys would say he was "sissy" in he didn't.(!)

Nathan "and anyone who objects is obviously a commiepinkofag" Miller

HWM

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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"K. D." wrote:

> Some of
> the bathrooms had not been redesigned since then, and naturally there were
> no partitions (much less curtains!) in the communal showers.

Uhhh... communal "bathrooms" ? There's this one film atleast 'Full Metal
Jacket' that has a communal "bathroom" in one of the graphic scenes
allright, much resembling what we had when I was in the Finnish army
(barracks designed in 1934) not to mention the washbasins which
resembled a round feeding-through. After getting to barracks where the
toilets had partitions *between* them I really felt 'private'.

" Anything less than 8 blokes in it is considered a 'single room' "

Cheers, | The conformity of purpose will be achieved |
HWM | through the mutual satisfaction of requirements.|
"Mind the gap"=> hen...@iobox.fi & http://www.kuru.da.ru

HWM

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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"K. D." wrote:

> Probably a factor, but what about in the shower BEFORE entering the pool?

Even though they claim that cold makes you stiff, it has quite the
opposite effect on the male member. And I remember the showers never
being *warm*...

--

HWM

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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Ralph Jones wrote:

> We had the same story about the guy walking nekkid into the wrong place, and
> people who had been to other nude pool sites told it too.

If you get any Rowan Atkinson tv-flicks with him as "Mr Bean" there is
the one scene where he manages to loose his trunks (he's wearing those
golf shorts 'merkins call swimming suits vs. the sausage covers the
yurpeens use, apparently to enhance the humor)
And of course getting up butt naked out of the pool the girl's swimming
team is just getting in. Apparently an old joke.

Well, now remembering this, my dad has a pair of swimming trunks from
the 1950's he adamantly used, which did not fit too well. I have been
witnessing him and a few other elder gentlemen managing to twist their
trunks in the manner that when they sit down they "let it all hang
out".

K. D.

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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John Opalko wrote in message <7van4n$4cl$1...@jellicle.clearspring.com>

>The girls had to wear these *U*G*L*Y* blue, shapeless things when they
swam.
>Or so I hear... ;-)

Ours were shades of blue and aqua -- color-coded for size. Yes, they were
quite unflattering. Being as self-conscious as the next teen-age girl
during those year, I used to wear two -- one my size, and one the next
bigger size over it. This was not an uncommon practice.

K. D.

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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Nathan F. Miller wrote in message <7vbbfq$3id$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

> Another thought: Didn't the ancient Greek and Roman atheletes swim
>in the nude?

Uh, I suggest we not go down the road of what the ancient Greeks,
especially, did while nude..........


>And isn't the idea of including "physical education" along
>with mental education an aspect of how public education in democratic
>societies has been largely rhetorically grounded in respect for old
>Athenian ideals of the education of male citizens of the _polis_?
>Could it have just been simple copying?

Good point -- I don't know if this is the case.

> My fifty-something uncle from rural North-West Pennsylvania swears
>that when he was a youth, there were "always" circle-jerks in the
>weight room of the local YMCA; that "everyone" knew about it (I wonder
>if "everyone" really means just the menfolk); that nobody thought there
>was anything "gay" about it. I have heard similar stories from other
>older guys, one of them saying he was peer-pressured to join in on the
>grounds that the other guys would say he was "sissy" in he didn't.(!)

Hmmmm, this is interesting. I wonder if this is actually true, or just
embellishment of the past and/or teasing a gullible younger generation. You
know, a la "I walked to school, five miles, uphill both ways, through three
feet of snow....."

Speaking of walking to school through snow legends, I know a teenager whose
dad is from Quebec Province -- his dad tells the same sort of walking
through snow stories, but with the added touch "pulling my school books
behind me on a little sled." Nice, huh?

jerryG

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to
In article <eZaBAUZI$GA.240@cpmsnbbsa05>,

"Andrea Jones" <aegi...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Small misunderstanding here. I wasn't referring to co-ed showers, I
> was referring to the complaint in the e-mail I had quoted, wherein
> the female students complained that they didn't have individual shower
> stalls, and this lack was attributed to the fact that the dorm had
> been a men's dorm previously, and the showers weren't "converted" for
> the women.
>

Yeah, the group showers in junior high were lots of fun. It was like
a conveyer belt where you went in on one end and then out the other.
But you always had to watch-out for that wise-guy on the end taking a
pee. Anybody walking into the stream would get laughed at vigorously.

I went to bootcamp in Orlando, and there were rumors about the girls
smuggling bananas out of the galley in their purses. Any voracity
to that, or was that just a rumor started by the guys.

> Andrea "Although co-ed showers would have made boot camp more
> interesting" Jones

jerry "yes, but the co-ed shower scene in 'Starship Troopers' was
surreal" G

--
this little moment, brief as it may be- it need
not be long, for it is a leap. Soren Kierkegaard

Joachim Lous

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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Thomas J. Wood wrote:
| In the past males swam in rivers, lakes and pools nekkid routinely and no one
| thought anything of it. Suits were only worn if ladies were present. But
| sometimes not even then. I have a book with a ca. 1910 photo taken in a German
| army officer's club. The men are all swimming butt nekkid, while women and
| children watch.

You don't have to go that far back. You can still find communal showers
adjoining the pool in perfectly respectable german hotels, although suits
are worn in the pool.

I remember being very puzzled at a swimming pool in Texas (mid-80s) where
a sign in the boys' locker room said that trunks must be kept on in the
shower. I was used to the exact opposite in Norway: showering 'properly'
was mandatory before entering the pool. I'm still not quite sure what the
texan rule was supposed to achieve.

--

Joachim Lous joa...@nr.no
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking
his head,"are a sure sign of a diseased mind." - Terry Pratchett

Joachim Lous

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to
Nathan F. Miller:

| Another thought: Didn't the ancient Greek and Roman atheletes swim
| in the nude?

To the degree they swam as a sport, I would assume so, since they
ran, wrestled, threw etc. in the nude. But then there were only
male spectators.

--
Joachim Lous joa...@nr.no
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind" - Terry Pratchett

Richard I. Pelletier

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to
In article <7vckk7$kq5$2...@snipp.uninett.no>, "Joachim Lous"
<Joachi...@nr.no> wrote:


> I remember being very puzzled at a swimming pool in Texas (mid-80s) where
> a sign in the boys' locker room said that trunks must be kept on in the
> shower. I was used to the exact opposite in Norway: showering 'properly'
> was mandatory before entering the pool. I'm still not quite sure what the
> texan rule was supposed to achieve.

The purpose was to wash the trunks, too, before they entered the pool.

Vale,
Rip
--
Multiplication is not commutative before breakfast.

Richard I. Pelletier
NB eddress: r i p 1 [at] h o m e [dot] c o m

Joachim Lous

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to
K. D.:

| Are there any males out there who can attest to this practice? More
| importantly, WHY was it done?

Or more logically, what would be the POINT of trunks?
We are talking about a group of males only, that presumably would shower
together that same day anyway.

--

Joachim Lous joa...@nr.no
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deborah Stevenson

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to

On 29 Oct 1999, Joachim Lous wrote:

> You don't have to go that far back. You can still find communal showers
> adjoining the pool in perfectly respectable german hotels, although suits
> are worn in the pool.
>

> I remember being very puzzled at a swimming pool in Texas (mid-80s) where
> a sign in the boys' locker room said that trunks must be kept on in the
> shower. I was used to the exact opposite in Norway: showering 'properly'
> was mandatory before entering the pool. I'm still not quite sure what the
> texan rule was supposed to achieve.

One possibility is you misunderstood the situation. Communal
single-sex showers are common enough that a friend of mine (a babyfaced
Lutheran minister, just to make it more amusing) was buck nekkid and
showering away happily in one after his swim. Unfortunately, he'd been
misled by a vestigial urinal--this was in fact the suit-on coed shower
area, as he discovered when a bevy of young lovelies demurely clad in
Speedos happened upon him.

Other University of Chicago types here may well know which shower area I
speak of--it's the one for the pool at Bartlett. That urinal makes things
mighty confusing.

Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)


HWM

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to
Deborah Stevenson wrote:

> Other University of Chicago types here may well know which shower area I
> speak of--it's the one for the pool at Bartlett. That urinal makes things
> mighty confusing.

Reminds me of a bar toilet in France, the urinal on the left, the
'cabinet' on the right and a mirror, tap and washbin in the middle.
Well, I say it requires some gall to answer 'ca va' and try to avoid
squirting into your eye when a lady emerged from the cabinet happily
going 'ca va?'.

Andrea Jones

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
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jerryG wrote in message <7vcois$4lt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
<snip group showers>

>I went to bootcamp in Orlando, and there were rumors about the girls
>smuggling bananas out of the galley in their purses. Any voracity
>to that, or was that just a rumor started by the guys.
>
I must regret to inform you that it was just another rumor started by the
guys. My experience with the members of my brother division led me to
believe that those young men wanted _so_ badly to believe that the women of
their sister division were horny as hell and just panting after a chance to
get one of them alone, and that in lieu of a few minutes alone with a man,
we were engaged in everything from masturbation with bananas to lesbian sex.
Alas, it was not so. We were all so damn tired we fell into our racks and
slept like the dead from 2200 to 0400. And during the day if we had a spare
moment or two, we would go to almost any lengths to use it to take a nap.

In short, if we smuggled a banana out of the galley, it was because we
wanted to eat it right before PT (which unfortunately occured before
breakfast).

Andrea "I was an accomplished cookie smuggler" Jones

emu...@imap3.asu.edu

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to

>
> Ah ha! And now I remember how the conversation started (about boys swimming
--> nude) with my visiting friend! He was saying that he had overheard some
> female students who were horrified at the shower accommodations in the dorm
> where they were living. Since the school had originally been male only, the
> dorms had all been designed and built with male students in mind. Some of

> the bathrooms had not been redesigned since then, and naturally there were
> no partitions (much less curtains!) in the communal showers.

FWIW, I've been out of high school for a relatively short time (hi. I'm
young. I apologize.) and nobody, male or female, EVER used the showers after
gym class at my high school or middle school, and those my age that I've
talked to have said the same about their HS's. (I wasn't involved in
extra-curricular sports, so I can't vouch for that.) We just doubled up on
the Secret.

I can't venture a guess why this is, that (many of) my generation prefered to
stink rather than be nude in front of others. well, I do have a guess. We
weren't given enough time to shower after class, much less to relacquer
our hair. But modesty could have played a part. We did master putting on one
shirt and removing the other without ever being shirtless, after all.

Thus, my generation is not accustomed to community bathing.

Erin "class of 96, class of 00" m


John Opalko

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Oct 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/29/99
to
In article <7vc5mh$t5g$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
K. D. <flowrchi...@prodigy.net> wrote:
%
%Hmmmm, this is interesting. I wonder if this is actually true, or just
%embellishment of the past and/or teasing a gullible younger generation. You
%know, a la "I walked to school, five miles, uphill both ways, through three
%feet of snow....."

That's "...three feet of snow *in the blazing, hot sun*," if you please.

John "you youngins don't know how easy you've got it, by cracky" Opalko

Doug Weller

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Oct 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/30/99
to
In article <P15S3.656$hp5....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
constance...@gte.net says...
> Although this is not exactly high school, Congressman and senators swam
> naked in the pool at their gym for many years. t
>
As we did at Yale in 1959!
--
Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

Nina Neudorfer

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Oct 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/30/99
to

Deborah Stevenson said:

> Other University of Chicago types here may well know which shower area I
> speak of--it's the one for the pool at Bartlett. That urinal makes things
> mighty confusing.

When I was at Penn State Univ. in the late 70's, my dorm building was
originally built as temporary housing for WWII vets who were taking
advantage of the GI Bill. There were maybe eight one story buildings, and
they alternated by sex, a man's dorm, then a woman's. All the buildings were
alike, with one big bathroom that had a long trough-like Urinal. We used to
do handwashing of underwear, etc in it. Woe to the guy who wouldn't take his
lazy ass 50 feet to a man's bathroom, and instead pissed in our urinal!

--
Nina " roar Lions roar"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ninth Grade Proficeincy Tests 10/22 - 29"
----marquee at South High School, Cleveland, OH


Walter Eric Johnson

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Oct 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/30/99