Live monkey brains flambe restaurant in Bangkok
The Sanity Inspector
Many years ago, a college friend told me about something he
had heard from somewhere. It seems there was a restaurant in Bangkok
where you could dine on fresh monkey brains. The creature would be
strapped into a compartment under the table, with the head poking up
through the top. It would be trepanned, the exposed brains soaked
with brandy, and then set alight. Then the diners would eat the
brains.
Believe it or not, it never occurred to me until quite
recently that this might be an urban legend. So I would like to know
if anyone has ever heard of this story, and can say if it is true or
not. Email welcome, watch the spam trap.
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
Ian A. York
The Sanity Inspector <chollanam...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Many years ago, a college friend told me about something he
>had heard from somewhere. It seems there was a restaurant in Bangkok
>where you could dine on fresh monkey brains. The creature would be
There's dispute in the group about this one.
First, I think we mostly agree that almost every version of this is false.
It doesn't happen in Bangkok, it doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia, it didn't
happen to your uncle, and it wasn't filmed on Faces of Death.
However, intrepid ace investigative reporter K.C. Chan, by the
death-defying act of tossing down the nickle equivalent, found a newspaper
article on the subject that looks plausible. Photographs and everything.
The paper is a Hong Kong one, but the story was placed in a village on the
border of mumble and mumble.
Not everyone is convinced by the story; not everyone is convinced that
it's false. My feeling is that it's more likely to be true than false,
but I don't consider the story solidly proven.
However, there is a ton of negative evidence arguing that the meal is not
a routine one, that even if it exists at all it's a very, very rare event;
it's not happening in a major city or over a widespread area, and even in
a very small region it's unusual.
So there you kind of have it. A definitive "beats the hell out of us".
Ian
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
Lee Ayrton
On Tue, 29 May 2001, The Sanity Inspector wrote:
> Apologies if this has been dealt with recently, and/or frequently.
> Many years ago, a college friend told me about something he
> had heard from somewhere. It seems there was a restaurant in Bangkok
> where you could dine on fresh monkey brains. The creature would be
> strapped into a compartment under the table, with the head poking up
> through the top. It would be trepanned, the exposed brains soaked
> with brandy, and then set alight. Then the diners would eat the
> brains.
The flambe part is new to the versions I've heard, but a nice touch.
While I've got the book out (see the "Whole Nine Yards" thread), I think
I'll just deposit a little cite into DejaGoogle. If nothing else it gives
us a date to track it from.
All three were solid excentrics. In their time,
on their buccaneering ways and days, they had eaten
fricasseed bullfrog, bush-rat pie, monkey brains, and
hippopotamus sweetbreads. Today they were having a
satisfying feat of formidable variety....
"The Doom Pussy"; Elaine Shepard; Trident Press, New York; 1967. P. 38.
K C Chan
>In article <3b12fa6c...@news.mindspring.com>,
>The Sanity Inspector <chollanam...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> Many years ago, a college friend told me about something he
>>had heard from somewhere. It seems there was a restaurant in Bangkok
>>where you could dine on fresh monkey brains. The creature would be
>
>There's dispute in the group about this one.
>
>First, I think we mostly agree that almost every version of this is false.
>It doesn't happen in Bangkok, it doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia, it didn't
>happen to your uncle, and it wasn't filmed on Faces of Death.
>
>However, intrepid ace investigative reporter K.C. Chan, by the
>death-defying act of tossing down the nickle equivalent, found a newspaper
>article on the subject that looks plausible. Photographs and everything.
>The paper is a Hong Kong one, but the story was placed in a village on the
>border of mumble and mumble.
China and Vietnam,it sez. The page is at:
http://www.iohk.com/UserPages/kcchan/monkey.htm
Note that upon later research I have found that the "Man Han Chun Shi"
mentioned in the article is a famous historical banquet enjoyed by an
emperor a gazillion years ago, featuring, you guessed it, monkey
brains. (As well as tiger penis and bear paw...yum yum!)
>
>Not everyone is convinced by the story; not everyone is convinced that
>it's false. My feeling is that it's more likely to be true than false,
>but I don't consider the story solidly proven.
>
>However, there is a ton of negative evidence arguing that the meal is not
>a routine one, that even if it exists at all it's a very, very rare event;
>it's not happening in a major city or over a widespread area, and even in
>a very small region it's unusual.
>
>So there you kind of have it. A definitive "beats the hell out of us".
What he said.
Even though there's photos, there's still not enough to provide a
Definite Yes It Happens. I'm too busy going to fun places to want to
head out there, but I Will Get There Someday. And even if it does
happen out there, what does that prove? People may be eating the
brains simply 'cause they heard about it and wanted to give it a try.
Note that eating monkey meat itself is nothing unusual.
But I'd like to note the flambe'd brains is a really cool variation on
the theme. Now *that* I'd like to see.
K.C. "On second thoughts, maybe not." Chan
Chris W.
>
> In article <3b12fa6c...@news.mindspring.com>,
> The Sanity Inspector <chollanam...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > Many years ago, a college friend told me about something he
> >had heard from somewhere. It seems there was a restaurant in Bangkok
> >where you could dine on fresh monkey brains. The creature would be
>
> There's dispute in the group about this one.
>
> First, I think we mostly agree that almost every version of this is false.
> It doesn't happen in Bangkok, it doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia, it didn't
> happen to your uncle, and it wasn't filmed on Faces of Death.
>
> However, intrepid ace investigative reporter K.C. Chan, by the
> death-defying act of tossing down the nickle equivalent, found a newspaper
> article on the subject that looks plausible. Photographs and everything.
> The paper is a Hong Kong one, but the story was placed in a village on the
> border of mumble and mumble.
Not to mention I have a friend (not a FOAF) who says he witnessed it
being eaten at an adjoining table, with his own eyes, when he toured the
Orient during his military service. His description, amazingly accurate
with the description in K.C. Chan's article, didn't receive much fanfare
when I last posted it here, but I'll post it again, in my friend's own
written words:
"Chris;
It was 30 years ago, so am a bit foggy on details;"
(and I thought, Uh, oh! But it gets better, including date, even the
restaurant location, so apparently his memory isn't *too* fogged)
"But, It was in Taiwan, in August 1971.
We were there on our honeymoon."
(He was married to an Asian girl and brought her home to the States upon
being discharged from war duty)
"It was a pretty high-class restaurant on Chung Chan North Boulevard in
Taipei. It was at the table next to ours. Did not see the monkey's
body, it was under a table cloth. Table was wheeled out with round
silver bowl, upside down in middle."
"Chef raised the bowl, there was top of monkey's head (not shaved).
Large cleaver was used to cut off top of head. Rapid application of
towels precluded mess."
"Didn't hear any drum (probably because some fat lady was going
hysterical at another table.
Size (about tennis ball)"
(size of the brain was one of my questions to him)
"They ate with spoons. Dipped in something very red,
That's about all I can remember."
"A friend assured us the monkey was live until the
cleaver."
I can't say this is proof that the legend is true, but it's about as
good as first hand monkey brain experience as we've got so far, I
think. I had also asked him about the monkey squealing (was it
anaesthetized?) but there was no comment - it sounds like the lady going
hysterical at the next table was making most of the noise.
Chris Webb
Richard Chambers
news:9ev0bj$gan$1...@news.panix.com...
>
> There's dispute in the group about this one.
>
> First, I think we mostly agree that almost every version of this is false.
> It doesn't happen in Bangkok, it doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia, it didn't
> happen to your uncle, and it wasn't filmed on Faces of Death.
>
> However, intrepid ace investigative reporter K.C. Chan, by the
> death-defying act of tossing down the nickle equivalent, found a newspaper
> article on the subject that looks plausible. Photographs and everything.
> The paper is a Hong Kong one, but the story was placed in a village on the
> border of mumble and mumble.
>
> Not everyone is convinced by the story; not everyone is convinced that
> it's false. My feeling is that it's more likely to be true than false,
> but I don't consider the story solidly proven.
>
> However, there is a ton of negative evidence arguing that the meal is not
> a routine one, that even if it exists at all it's a very, very rare event;
> it's not happening in a major city or over a widespread area, and even in
> a very small region it's unusual.
>
> So there you kind of have it. A definitive "beats the hell out of us".
>
describes John Locke's Theory of Knowledge. This might simply explain why
this "beats the hell out of us". All knowledge, says Locke, comes to us by
past experience (via perception), coupled with rational analysis. The King
of Siam (17th century), he remarks, ceased to believe what Europeans told
him when they described ice to him. Or perhaps this story itself is just
another UL.
Dick Chambers, Leeds, UK. Night time, 50% cloud cover, 9C.
Long Duck Dong
"Chris W." <chri...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:3B141C8C...@usa.net...
R. MacGeddon
Not to be rude, but I think:
1.) your old friend who was in the army is relating a classic foaf story but
making it first person.
Im sure this is because of the good rise he gets when telling this story,
rather than some evil intent to defraud.
2.) It is admirable of KC to bring this newsarticle to our attention, but Im
sure it is a fictitous account on the part of the journalist.
The fact is that the monkey brain eating accounts that we have heard are all
similar and bear the qualities of a UL. In spite of the fact that the
stories clearly describe an existing art and that this art requires
equipment, no credible physical evidence, or the kind of multiple press
accounts which a story this lurid would attract, has ever been found.
There is compelling reason to believe this monkey brain eating story is a UL
if one considers the logistics. To prepare monkey brain in this way a
special table is required and a chef with experiance (I would not want to be
at a table where a chef is preparing live monkey brains for the first time,
especially in a white tux), yet we find no evidence of such tables being
made or sold,
(not even on ebay....wait a sec, anyone got a 5 inch hole saw?) , and no
monkey brain preparation training. The chef part is particularly interesting
as chefs who prepare all other types of 'strange food' can be accounted for
quite easily, yet we find no monkey brain chefs.
Apologies for saying so, but the newspaper story strikes me as a fluff piece
such as those I see in The Peoples Daily.
>
>
Jesse F. Hughes
> There is compelling reason to believe this monkey brain eating story is a UL
> if one considers the logistics. To prepare monkey brain in this way a
> special table is required and a chef with experiance (I would not want to be
> at a table where a chef is preparing live monkey brains for the first time,
> especially in a white tux), yet we find no evidence of such tables being
> made or sold,
> (not even on ebay....wait a sec, anyone got a 5 inch hole saw?) , and no
> monkey brain preparation training. The chef part is particularly interesting
> as chefs who prepare all other types of 'strange food' can be accounted for
> quite easily, yet we find no monkey brain chefs.
What, you suppose that if monkey brains were eaten in this way, then
everyone would know all about the growing "monkey brain preparation
table" industry?
If I've not been completely hornswaggled, blowfish is a Japanese
delicacy which can be deadly if not properly prepared[1]. I would not
want to eat at a restaurant where a chef is preparing blowfish for the
first time, white tux or not. I don't personally know of any blowfish
preparation training and I haven't run into any blowfish chefs at
cocktail parties. Should we disbelieve in this practice?
(Of course, we *do* know[2] about blowfishes and we're not so sure
about the monkey brains, but no one claimed that the latter is as
popular as the former.)
I am *not* suggesting that we have sufficient evidence to conclude
that the monkey brains story is true. I'm just a bit unpersuaded by
R's reasoning. Heck, I didn't know that the Chinese have squat
toilets until I visited there (well, thanks to a warning from the
wife, a bit before), and I'll bet they make a few more of those than
monkey brain tables (even if the story is true).
Footnotes:
[1] Correct me if I'm just butt-wrong here.
[2] Uh, unless I really am butt-wrong, that is.
--
Jesse Hughes
"This update limits certain functionality in Outlook to provide a
higher level of security; it was not created to address a security
vulnerability within Outlook." -Another innovative MS enhancement
Laurence Doering
Jesse F. Hughes <je...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>"R. MacGeddon" <Rmacg...@dev.nul> writes:
>
>> There is compelling reason to believe this monkey brain eating story is a UL
>> if one considers the logistics. To prepare monkey brain in this way a
>> special table is required and a chef with experiance (I would not want to be
>> at a table where a chef is preparing live monkey brains for the first time,
>> especially in a white tux), yet we find no evidence of such tables being
>> made or sold,
>> (not even on ebay....wait a sec, anyone got a 5 inch hole saw?) , and no
>> monkey brain preparation training. The chef part is particularly interesting
>> as chefs who prepare all other types of 'strange food' can be accounted for
>> quite easily, yet we find no monkey brain chefs.
>
>What, you suppose that if monkey brains were eaten in this way, then
>everyone would know all about the growing "monkey brain preparation
>table" industry?
No, not everyone, but if a dining method that requires unusual
equipment exists, it makes sense to assume that *someone* out
there is responsible for the logistics involved.
>If I've not been completely hornswaggled, blowfish is a Japanese
>delicacy which can be deadly if not properly prepared[1]. I would not
>want to eat at a restaurant where a chef is preparing blowfish for the
>first time, white tux or not. I don't personally know of any blowfish
>preparation training and I haven't run into any blowfish chefs at
>cocktail parties. Should we disbelieve in this practice?
No, you should take this as an illustrative example. *You* don't
know of any sort of training that's required for sushi chefs who
prepare blowfish ("fugu" in Japanese.) However, *someone* does,
and in fact the logistics of preparing fugu are quite complicated.
For example, at
<http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/kgk/1099/kgk100299.html>
we find the following passage:
"I discover that our sushi chef is among the graduates of Tsukiji's
rigorous fugu classes. The Harmonious Fugu Association prepares
students for the national licensing exam required of all who
plan to prepare fugu. A nerve-wracking competition, the exam
takes place over two days. The written part on day one takes
two hours to complete. The next day brings the intense hands-on
evaluation, in which students have 20 minutes to precisely slice
and separate the poisonous parts of the fish from the nontoxic
sections."
Further web searching indicates that training and certification
for fugu chefs was instituted by the Japanese Ministry of Health
in 1958, following a record 176 poisoning deaths that year.
There are now more than 70,000 sushi chefs certified to serve
fugu, and there are only 15 to 20 annual fatalities these days.
>(Of course, we *do* know[2] about blowfishes and we're not so sure
>about the monkey brains, but no one claimed that the latter is as
>popular as the former.)
The difference is there is plenty of evidence that people eat
fugu, not just a few vague eyewitness accounts.
ljd
R. MacGeddon
Jesse F. Hughes wrote in message <87y9rfm...@phiwumbda.dyndns.org>...
>snip<
No, what I propose is that someone, not everyone, would know of such chefs
skilled in the preparation of blowfish, which is called fugu btw. Many
Japanese chefs are trained to prepare puffer fish in such a way as to avoid
the poison bits. This is exactly what I mean by an 'established art'. In the
case of fugu preparation though it is not common knowledge to everyone on
earth, it is easy to find folks who are trained and skilled in its
preparation. There is also a history behind it, a folk practice from which
it stems and a clear recognition of this as a delicacy.
With monkey brain eating there is no history, no evidence and yet the
stories would have us believe it is an established art.
If instead it were presented as an uncommon practice where a monkey bound in
duct tape (or jute rope) had his brain consumed by an obscure tribe in a
remote region of the world, I would not put forth this argument. It is the
restaurant setting, the allegation that this is a delicacy and the required
equipment (table etc), and the locus of Taipei, South China, Beijing etc.
which leads me to believe it is false.
Really the monkey brain eating is closer in factual support to Yeti stories
than it is to Fugu preparation.
Compare searching for Fugu preparation on the internet to live monkey brain,
in the Fugu case you find lots of restaurants, and first hand accounts. With
Monkey brain all you find is 2nd hand accounts and foaf stories, and the
famous faces of death hoax scene.
Jesse F. Hughes
> With monkey brain eating there is no history, no evidence and yet the
> stories would have us believe it is an established art.
> If instead it were presented as an uncommon practice where a monkey bound in
> duct tape (or jute rope) had his brain consumed by an obscure tribe in a
> remote region of the world, I would not put forth this argument. It is the
> restaurant setting, the allegation that this is a delicacy and the required
> equipment (table etc), and the locus of Taipei, South China, Beijing etc.
> which leads me to believe it is false.
I think that you and Laurence both take the claim a bit differently
than I do. I never thought that the story was that this monkey brain
dinner was common, so I don't see that there needs to be more than a
handful of these special tables, any one of which could be constructed
as the need arises.
Since I always assumed that the story is compatible with the practice
being very rare, the fact that I can easily find information about
fugu preparation and not find information about monkey brain
preparation does not seem all that compelling to me. I don't expect
monkey brain chefs to advertise (in English) on the web, so the fact
that I don't find any doesn't shock me.
I want to be clear: I am not saying that this practice exists or is
even probable. I simply do not think that your argument is as
compelling as you seem to think. The fact that none of our readers
know diddly about an obscure practice doesn't lead me to conclude the
practice does not exist.
Personally, I tend also to doubt the story, but I'm not terribly
persuaded one way or the other.
--
Jesse Hughes
"You see 300 of something, anything, and you go `[Man], that's a lot of
stuff.'" -- Jim Bigler, quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Laurence Doering
>than I do. I never thought that the story was that this monkey brain
>dinner was common, so I don't see that there needs to be more than a
>handful of these special tables, any one of which could be constructed
>as the need arises.
But the usual story about monkey brain eating has it happening
at a restaurant, right? That argues that it can't be an insanely
rare practice -- if it was, how could people who were in the mood
for noshing on live monkey brain know where to go to get some?
>Since I always assumed that the story is compatible with the practice
>being very rare, the fact that I can easily find information about
>fugu preparation and not find information about monkey brain
>preparation does not seem all that compelling to me. I don't expect
>monkey brain chefs to advertise (in English) on the web, so the fact
>that I don't find any doesn't shock me.
Ah, but you were saying in your previous post that you knew of
the existence of the Japanese custom of eating fugu; that you
believe that fugu eating exists without any sort of special
equipment or training for chefs; and therefore the fact that
no monkey brain restaurant supply industry or monkey brain chef
training exists does not mean people don't eat monkey brains
in restaurants.
I helpfully pointed out a flaw in your reasoning: that
the practice of fugu eating *is* supported by an army of
more than 70,000 specially trained sushi chefs who have
passed a rigorous certification program administered by
the Japanese Ministry of Health.
>I want to be clear: I am not saying that this practice exists or is
>even probable. I simply do not think that your argument is as
>compelling as you seem to think. The fact that none of our readers
>know diddly about an obscure practice doesn't lead me to conclude the
>practice does not exist.
Well, it shouldn't, since that would be equivalent to proving
a negative proposition.
On the other hand, the only apparent evidence that the obscure
practice *does* exist is a handful of vague eyewitness accounts.
It seems reasonable to try to imagine additional evidence that
could corroborate the accounts, and to conclude that if such
additional evidence can't be found, the existence of monkey
brain eating can't be proven.
ljd
Jesse F. Hughes
> In article <87k82ym...@phiwumbda.dyndns.org>,
> Jesse F. Hughes <je...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >I think that you and Laurence both take the claim a bit differently
> >than I do. I never thought that the story was that this monkey brain
> >dinner was common, so I don't see that there needs to be more than a
> >handful of these special tables, any one of which could be constructed
> >as the need arises.
>
> But the usual story about monkey brain eating has it happening
> at a restaurant, right? That argues that it can't be an insanely
> rare practice -- if it was, how could people who were in the mood
> for noshing on live monkey brain know where to go to get some?
I would guess that the locals, familiar with the custom, would know.
You and I have a different sense of what the typical story implies
about the popularity of the dish. I don't see that it implies much at
all. I'd allow that if we found one restaurant that served this dish
on more than one occasion, then the legend is substantially true
(although not every detail of every telling is true).
>
> >Since I always assumed that the story is compatible with the practice
> >being very rare, the fact that I can easily find information about
> >fugu preparation and not find information about monkey brain
> >preparation does not seem all that compelling to me. I don't expect
> >monkey brain chefs to advertise (in English) on the web, so the fact
> >that I don't find any doesn't shock me.
>
> Ah, but you were saying in your previous post that you knew of
> the existence of the Japanese custom of eating fugu; that you
> believe that fugu eating exists without any sort of special
> equipment or training for chefs; and therefore the fact that
> no monkey brain restaurant supply industry or monkey brain chef
> training exists does not mean people don't eat monkey brains
> in restaurants.
>
> I helpfully pointed out a flaw in your reasoning: that
> the practice of fugu eating *is* supported by an army of
> more than 70,000 specially trained sushi chefs who have
> passed a rigorous certification program administered by
> the Japanese Ministry of Health.
I knew that the two situations were not perfectly comparable, and I
was not claiming that there are no training programs for fugu
preparations. I tried to draw what comparisons I could here, with the
limitation that the fugu example is relatively well known. Certainly,
it would not take much work to confirm that fugu is not an urban
legend. I did not intend to imply otherwise. It was the most
reasonable comparison I could find, nonetheless.
I never thought that the legend was that monkey brain is a dish that
is comparable in popularity to fugu, or even that it is a dish that is
served in high-falutin', cosmopolitan restaurants even[1]. So, the
flaws you helpfully pointed out were not, in my opinion, crucial to my
point. (Although, I should have qualified my comparison better in the
original post, obviously.)
>
> >I want to be clear: I am not saying that this practice exists or is
> >even probable. I simply do not think that your argument is as
> >compelling as you seem to think. The fact that none of our readers
> >know diddly about an obscure practice doesn't lead me to conclude the
> >practice does not exist.
>
> Well, it shouldn't, since that would be equivalent to proving
> a negative proposition.
>
> On the other hand, the only apparent evidence that the obscure
> practice *does* exist is a handful of vague eyewitness accounts.
> It seems reasonable to try to imagine additional evidence that
> could corroborate the accounts, and to conclude that if such
> additional evidence can't be found, the existence of monkey
> brain eating can't be proven.
>
Uh, yeah, if we can't find evidence, then its existence cannot be
proven. I agree there. Certainly, the small handful of accounts are
insufficient.
Footnotes:
[1] Although, certainly, the purported eyewitness account (discussed
in this thread) places the dish in Taiwan, which surprised me. I am
not defending the accuracy of that account, of course.
--
Jesse Hughes
"It's a dangerous place. It's a sacred place. They're going to live
as the Aborigines did." -Survivor producer Mark Burnett on the Outback
Jesse F. Hughes
This one makes the "evil foreigner" component quite explicit in the
introduction, and also places the account in Hong Kong (which strikes
me as one of the least plausible settings). The author writes the
story as a secondhand account, with the primary source his mother.
I quote here from <URL:http:envy.nu/oceansong/Journal/dec04.htm>.
Seems to be part of an online journal.
I think today could be dubbed as the day for feeling sorry for
animals. My mother, my aunt, and I took part in a discussion about
the various horror stories that we've heard or actually SEEN about
what people did to animals to make them into food (which I shall
relate here). These occurences usually pertain to Asia, mostly in
the Orient--Japan and China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. I'm not
particularly easy to gross out, but these stories were gross in
the inhumane factor involved. I don't know. I just feel really bad
about what's being done to these animals. The people who partake
in this cruel preparation are most certainly accumulating loads of
bad karma. I'm not a vegetarian, mind you, but there are limits to
what even an omnivorous person can stand. If you're easily
shocked, take care while treading here. :)
[...]
The Monkey
Ah this. This story comes from my mother, who was soon to find out
what the hole at the center of this restaurant's tables was
for. One time when she had gone over to Hong Kong, the table next
to hers at the restaurant had ordered the monkey brain
delicacy. What happened was that they took a monkey, clearly
drugged up since it was just doing nothing, and placed it so that
its head would pop up at the center of the table, where the hole
was. The monkey would be hanging there with its head caught, while
the chef comes over with a hammer and bangs the monkey's head
once. HARD. Hard enough to crack its skull but not kill it
completely. After the skull cracks, the chef would take a knife
and slowly carve out the skull bone, exposing the monkey's
brain. While the monkey is still alive, looking around and
BLINKING ITS EYES, the people took their spoons and dug out a bit
of its brain to eat. Some of the people began throwing up
immediately after putting the brain bits in their mouths, while
others began smacking their lips and going "Mmmmmmmm, delicious"
and begin to scoop the monkey's brains again. While it's blinking
its eyes.
I know. Fuck. *shudder* That monkey story of my mother's pretty
much put everything into a spin in my head. Shit. I don't know how
people could do things like this--how people could EAT these
fucking things like this, while the animal is still alive. Ick. I
really don't understand. I know they think it's a "delicacy" but
eating the brains of a monkey while the animal is fucking blinking
at me? Hell NO!
As I said, bad karma. Really bad. These people are wont to getting
killed as they're sucked into boiling oil by mistake or some other
gross tragedy.
I'm not sure why the fact that the monkey blinks is supposed to be so
off-putting. I'd be more disturbed if my dinner looked at me and cried
out than if it was looking randomly about and blinking.
I did not contact the author to ask for details.
Richard Chambers
news:87u222p...@phiwumbda.dyndns.org...
> ....................... Some of the people began throwing up
> immediately after putting the brain bits in their mouths, while
> others began smacking their lips and going "Mmmmmmmm, delicious"
> and begin to scoop the monkey's brains again. While it's blinking
> its eyes.
>
presumably, throwing up while you are trying to enjoy a good meal. Anybody
who has tried to eat in the Dining Room of the Tilbury/Gothenberg Ferry from
during a North Sea storm (a particularly bad personal experience) will know
exactly what I am talking about. It puts you off your food altogether,
whether it be spaghetti bolognese or monkey brains. For this reason, one can
hardly expect the connoisseurs to be saying "Mmmmmmmm, delicious" while the
vomit of others is piling up around them. At least this aspect of this story
is open to doubt.
Dick Chambers Leeds, UK. Night time, 9C, cloudy.
ash966
Speaking of monkey brains . . .
In the film MAD MONKEY KUNG FU, the hero is called Monkey, looks like a
monkey, and does monkey style kung fu. The villain, having bested him in
combat, offers him a "Manchu feast". Monkey's head is put through a table,
cleaned with soap and alcohol, then the villain's henchman tries to smash
it with a hammer. More dramatic, I guess, than the
"sawing-open-the-skull" method.
If it's a "Manchu feast", maybe the whole UL started as a libel against
the outlander overlords of the Qing Dynasty. Damn those foreigners and
their monkey-brain-eating ways! Let's restore the Ming Dynasty!
Wondering where Hsaio Ho is now,
ASH
********************************************************************************
Andrea Herman
email: ash...@bitstream.net
*******************************************************************************
"Oh don't the days seem lank and long
When all goes right and nothing goes wrong
And isn't your life extremely flat
When you've nothing whatever to grumble at?"
--W.S. Gilbert
David Scheidt
: In article <87k82ym...@phiwumbda.dyndns.org>,
: Jesse F. Hughes <je...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
:>
:>I think that you and Laurence both take the claim a bit differently
:>than I do. I never thought that the story was that this monkey brain
:>dinner was common, so I don't see that there needs to be more than a
:>handful of these special tables, any one of which could be constructed
:>as the need arises.
: But the usual story about monkey brain eating has it happening
: at a restaurant, right? That argues that it can't be an insanely
: rare practice -- if it was, how could people who were in the mood
: for noshing on live monkey brain know where to go to get some?
They're locals, and it's arranged in advance? Maybe it's bring your own
monkey?
--
dsch...@tumbolia.com
Bipedalism is only a fad.
Chris W.
>
> Apologies if this has been dealt with recently, and/or frequently.
> Many years ago, a college friend told me about something he
> had heard from somewhere. It seems there was a restaurant in Bangkok
> where you could dine on fresh monkey brains. The creature would be
> strapped into a compartment under the table, with the head poking up
> through the top. It would be trepanned, the exposed brains soaked
> with brandy, and then set alight. Then the diners would eat the
> brains.
Is this site a credible source?
http://www.ahk-china.org/chinpressumwelt.htm
-----------
Sinofile, Beijing Evening News
99/12/22
A group of law enforcement personnel, disguised as diners, visited a
restaurant. The manager of the restaurant tried to persuade the group to
eat living monkey's brains, a meal valued at about RMB1,000. The manager
said people who eat live monkey's brains become wiser. The law
enforcement personnel then showed their identification and the manager
and the monkey were taken to the local public security bureau. The
monkey has received treatment and the manager has been ordered to pay
ten times the monkey's value as a fine.
--------
This suggests to me that monkey brains might be found in some
restaurants, but due to legality issues the practice won't be
advertised.
Chris Webb
keith lim
> http://www.ahk-china.org/chinpressumwelt.htm
> Sinofile, Beijing Evening News
> 99/12/22
No byline.
> A group of law enforcement personnel, ...
Unnamed.
> ... visited a restaurant.
Not named. Location unspecified. Date of visit unspecified.
> The manager of the restaurant ...
Not named.
> ...the manager
> and the monkey were taken to the local public security bureau.
Not named.
> ...the manager has been ordered to pay
> ten times the monkey's value as a fine.
Amount not specified.
So to answer your question,
> Is this site a credible source?
I'd have to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.
keith "probably, possibly, likely, may have, might have, could have" lim
--
keith lim keit...@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~keithlim/
I know he's not frozen. I was just being weird.
It's something I'm exceptionally good at. --JamiJo
K C Chan
Hughes) wrote:
>"R. MacGeddon" <biff...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> With monkey brain eating there is no history, no evidence and yet the
>> stories would have us believe it is an established art.
>> If instead it were presented as an uncommon practice where a monkey bound in
>> duct tape (or jute rope) had his brain consumed by an obscure tribe in a
>> remote region of the world, I would not put forth this argument. It is the
>> restaurant setting, the allegation that this is a delicacy and the required
>> equipment (table etc), and the locus of Taipei, South China, Beijing etc.
>> which leads me to believe it is false.
>
>I think that you and Laurence both take the claim a bit differently
>than I do. I never thought that the story was that this monkey brain
>dinner was common, so I don't see that there needs to be more than a
>handful of these special tables, any one of which could be constructed
>as the need arises.
I'd just like to jump in here with a note on the 'special tables': in
Hong Kong and elsewhere in Asia there is a speciality dish called 'hot
pot' or 'steamboat' which is usually eaten during the winter. A bowl
of boiling stock is placed in the centre of the table on a gas or
electric stove. The stove sits in a little cavity in the middle of
the table. You are served raw meat etc and cook them yourself in the
stock. It's fabulous.
The cavity in the table has a round cutout that can be removed for
steamboat during the winter, and replaced for a normal meal during the
summer.
So a 'table with a cut-out in the middle' in Asia is, in fact, as
common as mud.
*And*: When my parents were here last, they asked me what the cutout
in the table was for, and I promptly told them that it was 'for the
monkey'. And I'm sure I'm not the first person with a wicked, if
skewed, sense of humour who has done that.
*And Too*: There's a very common UL about a restaurant "Over There
Somewhere on the Mainland or Something" that has an enormously popular
steamboat with people queued up every night for it; and it turns out
that they had been putting morphine in the soup and getting people
addicted. That one is much more famous than the monkey brains, lots
of people have told it to me, and it's a regular pop-up in the
newspapers.
I have asked around extensively in Hong Kong and never met anybody who
has even heard of live-monkey-brain-eating here. Oh, they've heard of
it, just *not here*. It's recounted as an archetypal UL. There was
a time at the beginning of the last century when you could get
monkeys for the pot, but nobody ever ate the brains raw, as far as I
can gather. But the newspaper article is cool.
K.C. "Adding nothing much to the discussion, really" Chan
David Martin
>
> Chris W. <chri...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > http://www.ahk-china.org/chinpressumwelt.htm
> > Sinofile, Beijing Evening News
> > 99/12/22
>
> No byline.
>
> > ... visited a restaurant.
>
> Not named. Location unspecified. Date of visit unspecified.
> > Is this site a credible source?
>
> I'd have to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.
>
> keith "probably, possibly, likely, may have, might have, could have" lim
I don't disagree with Keith, but in the same file of news
reports was this:
SinoFile, Yangcheng Evening News
2000/01/23
On Dec. 10, 1999, CCTV reporter Fu Shengji went undercover to
the Zhuyuan Gourmet Restaurant in Nankunshan, Guangdong, to
record the restaurant's process of killing monkeys for use in
its specialty dishes. Fu first prepared for the undercover
mission by making the acquaintance of the owner of the
restaurant to reduce suspicions about his intentions. Fu
successfully recorded the entire process of the monkey
slaughter. Fu covered the carnage in order to obtain
material evidence against the restaurant as part of
the Southern No. 2 Action for the Protection of Wildlife
Campaign.
Although this report is specific in regards to many details, it
clearly omits details on the "process of killing monkeys".
It would be a leap to go from this to the live monkey brains.
Is monkey illegal in China or just certain techniques of
preparation?
David "still skeptical" Martin
Marc Reeve
SinoFile, Yangcheng Evening News
2000/01/23
On Dec. 10, 1999, CCTV reporter Fu Shengji went undercover to the Zhuyuan
Gourmet Restaurant in Nankunshan, Guangdong, to record the restaurant's process
of killing monkeys for use in its specialty dishes. Fu first prepared for the
undercover mission by making the acquaintance of the owner of the restaurant to
reduce suspicions about his intentions. Fu successfully recorded the entire
process of the monkey slaughter. Fu covered the carnage in order to obtain
material evidence against the restaurant as part of the Southern No. 2 Action
for the Protection of Wildlife Campaign.
Marc "monkeying around with grep" Reeve
--
Marc Reeve: cAmE...@deepthOUGHt.armory.com <delete caps for real address>
"Substitute "damn" every time you want to write "very." Your editor will delete
it, and then your writing will be as it should be."
-Mark Twain
Phil Edwards
quoted (from <http://www.ahk-china.org/chinpressumwelt.htm>):
>The manager of the restaurant tried to persuade the group to
>eat living monkey's brains, a meal valued at about RMB1,000.
My immediate reaction to this story was to wonder idly how much 1,000
renminbi is, whether in terms of exchange rates or of how much of the
rest of the menu you could get for that money; are we talking a
lobster, a whole duck, a sucking pig, ten sucking pigs or what?
Coincidentally, a recent article in the _LRB_ includes an oddly
poignant Stupid Criminal story set in Mao's China, which in passing
puts the exchange rate at about eight to the USD; not that this tells
us much about the sucking-pig scale, of course. (Zhongnanhai is
glossed as "where China's leaders live and work".)
"There was the 1965 case of a low-ranking clerk who was cuaght after
he forged Zhou Enlai's signature on Zhongnanhai notepaper and went to
the People's Bank, where they obeyed the written instructions and gave
him 10 million renminbi ($1.2 million). The man loaded the money onto
five pedicabs and took it home. The authorities eventually mounted a
search and hunted through every desk in Zhongnanhai until one day they
opened a drawer stuffed with scrap paper on which the confidence
trickster had practised Premier Zhou's signature thousands of times.
Eventually, the money was found buried in the forger's garden."
- from Jasper Becker's review of _The Tiananmen Papers_
Phil "I have a gub" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"Scary thought: a muscled-up ferret with a flick-knife.
And a fake Rolex. Worn half way down itself." - Simon Slavin
Mitcho
> five pedicabs and took it home. The authorities eventually mounted a
> search and hunted through every desk in Zhongnanhai until one day they
> opened a drawer stuffed with scrap paper on which the confidence
> trickster had practised Premier Zhou's signature thousands of times.
Given all the innovations introduced by the PRC, I'm surprised the
memory hole was not among them.
Mitcho
Surprised
--
The Urban Redneck : red...@goathill.net : Goat Hill, California
http://www.employees.org/~redneck
K C Chan
<k29...@unix.tamu.edu> wrote:
>I don't disagree with Keith, but in the same file of news
>reports was this:
>
> SinoFile, Yangcheng Evening News
>
> 2000/01/23
>
> On Dec. 10, 1999, CCTV reporter Fu Shengji went undercover to
> the Zhuyuan Gourmet Restaurant in Nankunshan, Guangdong, to
> record the restaurant's process of killing monkeys for use in
> its specialty dishes. Fu first prepared for the undercover
> mission by making the acquaintance of the owner of the
> restaurant to reduce suspicions about his intentions. Fu
> successfully recorded the entire process of the monkey
> slaughter. Fu covered the carnage in order to obtain
> material evidence against the restaurant as part of
> the Southern No. 2 Action for the Protection of Wildlife
> Campaign.
>
>Although this report is specific in regards to many details, it
>clearly omits details on the "process of killing monkeys".
>It would be a leap to go from this to the live monkey brains.
>Is monkey illegal in China or just certain techniques of
>preparation?
>
It's not illegal to eat any animal in China, provided it's not an
endangered species. I don't think there's any laws about cruelty to
animals as well, although there may have been some introduced recently
as China tries to meet world standards.
This story sounds more like they're objecting to the way the monkey is
killed, rather than the way it's being eaten. Sometimes particularly
cruel ways of killing food animals are used because it's believed to
make the meat 'better': an example of this is the common practice of
beating dogs to death for the table rather than a quicker cleaner
kill.
Whoops! There's a big yellow BOP line. Last stop.
K.C. "It's illegal in Hong Kong to eat dogs and cats, though" Chan
K C Chan
wrote:
>On Thu, 31 May 2001 08:00:52 GMT, "Chris W." <chri...@usa.net>
>quoted (from <http://www.ahk-china.org/chinpressumwelt.htm>):
>
>>The manager of the restaurant tried to persuade the group to
>>eat living monkey's brains, a meal valued at about RMB1,000.
>
>My immediate reaction to this story was to wonder idly how much 1,000
>renminbi is, whether in terms of exchange rates or of how much of the
>rest of the menu you could get for that money; are we talking a
>lobster, a whole duck, a sucking pig, ten sucking pigs or what?
1000 RMB = about a months' salary.
You can get an excellent meal in Shenzhen, one of the most expensive
places in China, including a live fish (before it's cooked, that is)
for two people, for 180 RMB.
1 US$ is about 8 RMB, that's correct.
To your average local in China, 1,000RMB = A Hell of a Lot of Money to
be Spending on a Single Dish.
For a Hong Kong person with a taste for the exotic, 1,000 RMB isn't
too much to cough up for a once-in-a-lifetime dish that's guaranteed
to make you smarter.
K.C. "Most of the milk formulas guarantee to make your kids smarter,
too" Chan
Paul Ding (Del FOOBAR to reply)
wrote:
>>Although this report is specific in regards to many details, it
>>clearly omits details on the "process of killing monkeys".
>>It would be a leap to go from this to the live monkey brains.
>>Is monkey illegal in China or just certain techniques of
>>preparation?
>It's not illegal to eat any animal in China, provided it's not an
>endangered species. I don't think there's any laws about cruelty to
>animals as well, although there may have been some introduced recently
>as China tries to meet world standards.
In the US, you couldn't serve brains that way - and it has nothing to
do with "cruelty". It's the inspection laws.
About 30 or 35 years ago, they changed the law so that you cannot sell
meat in the US unless it was slaughtered by a federally-inspected
abbatoir. If your cow is accidently killed - say, it gets on the road
and gets hit by a car, or it gets electrocuted by a water heater -
you can butcher it yourself for your own consumption, but if your deep
freeze is full, you can NOT legally sell it to your next-door
neighbor.
Nick Spalding
The reference to "the Southern No. 2 Action for the Protection of
Wildlife Campaign" would suggest it is an endangered species matter.
--
Nick Spalding
DEF
news:4idfht0l379cpgval...@4ax.com:
> K C Chan wrote, in <ReMWO3ePVMUe2F...@4ax.com>:
>
><SNIP>
>>
>> It's not illegal to eat any animal in China, provided it's not an
>> endangered species. I don't think there's any laws about cruelty to
>> animals as well, although there may have been some introduced recently
>> as China tries to meet world standards.
>> <SNIP>
>
> The reference to "the Southern No. 2 Action for the Protection of
> Wildlife Campaign" would suggest it is an endangered species matter.
The Apple Daily article also mentioned endangered animals (as in the
monkeys came from Vietnam and were not endangered Chinese monkeys, or
something like that).
HK has prevention of cruelty to animals (Chapter 169) and wild animal
protection ordinances (Chapters 170 and 170a) that ban eating basically
anything "exotic," even dogs and cats:
"There is also no evidence of monkey brains being eaten in this manner in
Hong Kong."
-From an open letter, by the Agriculture and Fisheries Department (AFD) of
the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government 1997, which also
contains info on HK animal cruelty laws, including one which
"specifically prohibits the killing of dogs and cats for consumption."
Just local ordinances I suppose, but I think these sorts of things are
significant in dispelling the myths.
-Dave
How Hong Konger's kill animals - with video!
(Warning: Very boring tour of slaughter houses. No actual killing.):
http://www.info.gov.hk/fehd/safefood/meat-inspection.html
Nick Spalding [reposted because of rogue cancel]
> On Thu, 31 May 2001 10:00:19 -0500, David Martin
The reference to "the Southern No. 2 Action for the Protection of
Wildlife Campaign" would suggest it is an endangered species matter.
--
Nick Spalding
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
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From: Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: cmsg cancel <4idfht0l379cpgval...@4ax.com>
Control: cancel <4idfht0l379cpgval...@4ax.com>
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[reposted because of rogue cancel]
> K C Chan wrote, in <ReMWO3ePVMUe2F...@4ax.com>:
>
><SNIP>
>>
>> It's not illegal to eat any animal in China, provided it's not an
>> endangered species. I don't think there's any laws about cruelty to
>> animals as well, although there may have been some introduced recently
>> as China tries to meet world standards.
>> <SNIP>
>
> The reference to "the Southern No. 2 Action for the Protection of
> Wildlife Campaign" would suggest it is an endangered species matter.
The Apple Daily article also mentioned endangered animals (as in the
monkeys came from Vietnam and were not endangered Chinese monkeys, or
something like that).
HK has prevention of cruelty to animals (Chapter 169) and wild animal
protection ordinances (Chapters 170 and 170a) that ban eating basically
anything "exotic," even dogs and cats:
"There is also no evidence of monkey brains being eaten in this manner in
Hong Kong."
-From an open letter, by the Agriculture and Fisheries Department (AFD) of
the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government 1997, which also
contains info on HK animal cruelty laws, including one which
"specifically prohibits the killing of dogs and cats for consumption."
Just local ordinances I suppose, but I think these sorts of things are
significant in dispelling the myths.
-Dave
How Hong Konger's kill animals - with video!
(Warning: Very boring tour of slaughter houses. No actual killing.):
http://www.info.gov.hk/fehd/safefood/meat-inspection.html
========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
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From: shi...@ms1.hinet.net (DEF)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: cmsg cancel <Xns90B3890D6A0...@38.8.213.2>
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Madeleine Page
writes:
>I have asked around extensively in Hong Kong and never met anybody who
>has even heard of live-monkey-brain-eating here. Oh, they've heard of
>it, just *not here*. It's recounted as an archetypal UL.
What to me adds to the ULishness of the monkey brain story is that I first
heard it 35 years ago. In Oxford. From an Oxfam worker -- he was director
of their Africa programs at the time. According to the story, this had
happened to him. In Africa.
Madeleine "waiting for the first Mad Monkey Disease scare" Page
--
Visit my home page! Sign my imaginary guestbook!
www.mpage.net
The Sanity Inspector
to my inquiry. Most educational. If any of you enjoy quotations,
drop in on us at alt.quotations sometime.
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
Madeleine Page [reposted because of rogue cancel]
writes:
>I have asked around extensively in Hong Kong and never met anybody who
>has even heard of live-monkey-brain-eating here. Oh, they've heard of
>it, just *not here*. It's recounted as an archetypal UL.
What to me adds to the ULishness of the monkey brain story is that I first
heard it 35 years ago. In Oxford. From an Oxfam worker -- he was director
of their Africa programs at the time. According to the story, this had
happened to him. In Africa.
Madeleine "waiting for the first Mad Monkey Disease scare" Page
--
Visit my home page! Sign my imaginary guestbook!
www.mpage.net
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