$50 bugs in the US of A
does it matter?
i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious about the
rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded in
them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
--
<bonem...@easy.com>
Remember... the dead out number the living by 30 to 1...
~ And that's just the humans.
Lon Stowell
In article <01bd76eb$8c6eb6a0$8af716cf@default>,
does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious about the
>rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded in
>them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
Perhaps you might be more likely to believe the answers you
would get on the alt.conspiracy group.
The teeny tiny little batteries were the hardest part.....
....cleverly disguised as those little dots.
Mike Painter
Lon Stowell wrote in message <6ij6ks$6...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com>...
If you are going to help build these myths please get with the times. The
hard part was getting the batteries to recharge from heat, static
electricity and (drum roll) the light from the laser at the checkstands.
Absorbing information from your credit card was also a difficult task.....
does it matter?
Mike Painter <mpai...@t-three.com> wrote in article
<6ijing$6oi$1...@newsfep3.sprintmail.com>...
now i am no rocket scientist... but i guess niether of you, in your quest
for finding rude answers, thought that any such device might simply be
reflective... possibly reflecting a signal off of it like radar off of
alluminum foil...
and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be so
rude?
i mean people come here for answers to something that they feel must be
false even though popular opinion insist it is true, and many of you poke
fun at these folks...
i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all five
of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about time
to speak out about it...
Don Whittington
In article <01bd7760$6b8843a0$67f716cf@default>, "does it matter?"
<bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be so
> rude?
>
> i mean people come here for answers to something that they feel must be
> false even though popular opinion insist it is true, and many of you poke
> fun at these folks...
>
> i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all five
> of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about time
> to speak out about it...
I think perhaps you are reading too much into the replies you have
received. On this thread, for instance, Lon was simply making a small joke
arising from your post. Nothing directed at you. Painter's comments were
directed at Lon, and so on.
In the doughnut thread, you received no rude answers at all, but were
instead taken seriously. People either commented on the fact that it was a
heretofore unreported vector for an old story, or told you its origin, or
as Pergish did, expanded with a new variant based on real events.
In the philosophy test question, again, no one was rude, although Mitcho
might have been a bit terse.
An argument might be made that posters to your stories would have been
justified in calling you impolite for posting such hoary old legends as
these without first checking www.urbanlegends.com, or reading the FAQ.
Others might have felt compelled to call you an imbecile for not
considering that people who are happily enjoying their little newsgroup
might take it ill when a newcomer takes it upon himself to teach them
manners as you do above. Still others might have branded you a puling,
querulous kvetch who imagines slights everywhere.
But, of course, no one has called you any of these things because we are
far too polite.
Don "You must be Bessie Smith's boy" Whittington
Charles A. Lieberman
Mike Painter
> If you are going to help build these myths please get with the times. The
> hard part was getting the batteries to recharge from heat, static
> electricity and (drum roll) the light from the laser at the checkstands.
And they had to be shielded from the cocaine[3].
[3] I recently had a paper on cocaine, and contemplated mentioning the
"currency is tainted" story. I found exactly what I needed at TAFKAC and
didn't need to annoy the froup asking you to do my homework. Thanks!
--
Charles A. Lieberman http://members.tripod.com/~calieber/index.html
Brooklyn, New York, USA
"The child is father to the man" --Oedipus
Phillip Rodrigues
You shouldn't believe everything you saw or heard in 'Conspiracy theory"
Next thing you'd believe that Professor Jones is a bad guy and no captain of
the Enterprise !
PhiRo
> i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious about the
> rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded in
> them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
Lon Stowell
>for finding rude answers, thought that any such device might simply be
>reflective... possibly reflecting a signal off of it like radar off of
>alluminum foil...
Ask a stupid question and you should expect maybe a white paper
on resonant systems theory?
>and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be so
>rude?
There are several folks on the group who bend over backwards and
forwards to be nice, no matter how stupid the question, or how
confused some other poster is about the difference between mild
chiding and being outright rude.
>i mean people come here for answers to something that they feel must be
>false even though popular opinion insist it is true, and many of you poke
>fun at these folks...
Bummer.
>
>i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all five
>of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about time
>to speak out about it...
>
Thank you.
does it matter?
i didn't say i beleaved it and i have never been to the conspiracy NG...
Phillip Rodrigues <phillip....@template.com> wrote in article
<354E031E...@template.com>...
does it matter?
i rest my case...
Don Whittington <donc...@flash.net> wrote in article
<doncopra-ya0240800...@news.flash.net>...
> In article <01bd7760$6b8843a0$67f716cf@default>, "does it matter?"
> <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>
>
> > and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be
so
> > rude?
> >
> > i mean people come here for answers to something that they feel must be
> > false even though popular opinion insist it is true, and many of you
poke
> > fun at these folks...
> >
> > i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all
five
> > of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about
time
> > to speak out about it...
>
does it matter?
need i say more?
Lon Stowell <lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com> wrote in article
<6il6ok$3...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com>...
> does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> >
> >now i am no rocket scientist... but i guess niether of you, in your
quest
> >for finding rude answers, thought that any such device might simply be
> >reflective... possibly reflecting a signal off of it like radar off of
> >alluminum foil...
>
> .....inherently obvious to the most casual observer.
> .....plastic don't reflect
> .....oooh, thats it, the printing is a tuned resonant circuit
> that reflects theta waves.
>
> >and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be
so
> >rude?
>
> Excuse me. There are SEVERAL longtime posters in this group who
> are extremely polite under all circumstances, even when obviously
> dealing with an idiot. I may not be one of them, but they
> are here.
>
> >i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all
five
> >of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about
time
> >to speak out about it...
>
> Oh well, even fools have 1st amendment rights.
>
>
>
does it matter?
you people just dont get it..
Lon Stowell <lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com> wrote in article
<6il70i$3...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com>...
> does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> >
> >now i am no rocket scientist... but i guess niether of you, in your
quest
> >for finding rude answers, thought that any such device might simply be
> >reflective... possibly reflecting a signal off of it like radar off of
> >alluminum foil...
>
> Ask a stupid question and you should expect maybe a white paper
> on resonant systems theory?
>
> >and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be
so
> >rude?
>
> There are several folks on the group who bend over backwards and
> forwards to be nice, no matter how stupid the question, or how
> confused some other poster is about the difference between mild
> chiding and being outright rude.
>
> >i mean people come here for answers to something that they feel must be
> >false even though popular opinion insist it is true, and many of you
poke
> >fun at these folks...
>
> Bummer.
>
> >
> >i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all
five
> >of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about
time
> >to speak out about it...
> >
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
Lon Stowell
In article <01bd779d$ef020620$74f716cf@default>,>need i say more?
I'm guessing it would be futile to ask you not to....or to
find a SHIFT key.
Lon Stowell
In article <01bd779d$d0c9d160$74f716cf@default>,>i rest my case...
Are you sure you wouldn't be MUCH happier over on AOL chatting
with KoKo? We could ask her trainer to be sure to restrict
her vocabulary so you can follow along reasonably well.
PS. "Meanyhead" is spelled with a capital "M".
Joseph Michael Bay
"does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> writes:
>i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious about the
>rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded in
>them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
I'm not sure where it *originated*, but the rumor was vectored on
an episode of the X-Files several years back. One of Mulder's friends,
a stereotypical wacked-out stoner conspiracy theorist, was telling the
agents about how the strip in $20+ bills allows "them" to know where
you are and how much cash you're carrying. The official explanation
is that it's an anti-counterfieting measure, although if you take the
strip out (my roommate did this), the bill is still accepted (anecdotal
evidence only).
The writers for the X-Files generally scooped up conspiracy/paranormal
lore from the sources, to wit the conspiracy culture.
--
Joe Bay Leland Stanford Junior University
Forensic Botany Laboratory, Stanford Department of Biology
You are in twisting passages of maize, all alike.
"In matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane" -Wilde
Jim Everman
Joseph Michael Bay wrote:
>
> "does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> writes:
>
> > the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded in
> >them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
>
> strip out (my roommate did this), the bill is still accepted (anecdotal
> evidence only).
And it's so easy to do - just catch the strip near the edge of the
bill twixt thumbnail and forefinger, the snap the bill by pulling
smartly on the opposing side.
I've been stuffing all mine into the back of the car of that guy that
follows me around all the time so it will look like he has a bunch of
ill gotten gains. hehehehehehehehehehehe maybe they'll go after him
heheheheheh opps, time for my shots.
--
Jim Everman mailto:eve...@Anet-STL.com
http://webusers.Anet-STL.com/~everman/
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
stupidity.
H Gilmer
does it matter? (bonem...@remove.easy.com) wrote:
: you people just dont get it..
(and then reposted yet another post that offended his sensibilities)
Apparently, neither do you. Whether or not you have a right to be
miffed is no longer a question I care about (and I am *not* someone
who goes out of my way to bash newcomers). You crossed the line by
reposting the entire text of three messages you didn't like. There
was no point to this, it violates basic rules of netiquette
(non-AFU-specific), and it is *not* going to win you any sympathy.
Hg
jaj...@lightspeed.net
does it matter? wrote:
[what other people said snipped]
> and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be so
> rude?
>
> i mean people come here for answers to something that they feel must be
> false even though popular opinion insist it is true, and many of you poke
> fun at these folks...
>
> i've tried being polite about these things... but considering that all five
> of the replies i have recieved have been rude i feel that it is about time
> to speak out about it...
I'm sorry does it matter?, mind if I call you does?, but I believe you may
just be overreacting a bit. As did Don, I went back and reread your recent
contributions to the group and the replies they inspired. Aside from the
mildly snitty posts by Lon (mild, that is, until you started to complain), you
have been treated rather well. You have posted a number of legends that may
be found in the FAQ or in the archives, and people have been pretty polite in
trying to point you in the right direction.
In the current thread, however, people have been having a little fun with your
post. I haven't seen any personal attacks directed to your original post,
these didn't start until you complained of others being rude.
Now, I'm sure you know that it is standard usenet etiquette to lurk in a
newsgroup and to read the FAQ before posting. Your first few posts to the
group indicate you failed to do this, but in spite of this people politely
pointed you in the right direction. By continuing to post without checking
the FAQ or possibly searching Deja News [1] to see if your question has been
answered, you've begun to wear out your welcome, but not irreparably so. I
suggest you:
-Go to http://www.urbanlegends.com and spend some time reading the FAQ and the
archives.
-Bookmark the above and search it before you post in the future.
-Bookmark the Deja News home page and learn to search this as well.
-Try just reading the group for 2-3 weeks before posting again.
-When someone replies to one of your posts with what seems like rudeness, give
them the benefit of the doubt, look to see if they aren't trying to tell you
something, and try responding with humor instead of anger.
-If something is confusing you, try asking through private email one of the
more polite regulars for an explanation.
-Learn to edit your posts; it is not necessary to quote the entire post to
which you are replying. Some people think this is rude.
-Consider dropping your habit of using elipses instead of proper punctuation;
people will take your posts much more seriously and you will be helping us
conserve our valuable resources.
I offer the above in hopes that you find it useful [2].
Judy "ever helpful" Johnson
[1] By reading more of the group through Deja News or by lurking, you may find
that Lon is not representative of the group, snarkiness-wise, and that others
have suggested he tone it down. Do not judge a very large group by the few
people who may respond.
[2] If, however, you quote this entire post with a single "You people still
don't get it" at the top, I will be forced to conclude that you are either
hopelessly dense, or deliberately inciting riot, and that you probably deserve
what you get.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
does it matter?
Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote
> I'm not sure where it *originated*, but the rumor was vectored on
> an episode of the X-Files several years back. One of Mulder's friends,
> a stereotypical wacked-out stoner conspiracy theorist, was telling the
> agents about how the strip in $20+ bills allows "them" to know where
> you are and how much cash you're carrying. The official explanation
> is that it's an anti-counterfieting measure, although if you take the
> strip out (my roommate did this), the bill is still accepted (anecdotal
> evidence only).
>
> The writers for the X-Files generally scooped up conspiracy/paranormal
> lore from the sources, to wit the conspiracy culture.
>
> --
> Joe Bay Leland Stanford Junior University
> Forensic Botany Laboratory, Stanford Department of Biology
> You are in twisting passages of maize, all alike.
> "In matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane" -Wilde
>
thank you for a kind and appropriate answer... this newsgroup should use
you as the standard by which to conduct thier responses...
my hat to you sir...
does it matter?
H Gilmer <gil...@uts.cc.utexas.edu> wrote in article
<6ilhe7$e4q$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>...
i know about the "reposting whole message" rule... i do get it... i have my
reasons for the few i do repost and i am not going to conform to a group
that chooses to insult someone they feel is of a lesser intelligence...
don't sympathize, you can't help it for the way you are and i don't hold it
against you.
besides... what ever happened to simply asking someone to abide by the
prefered etiquette instead of knee jerking to a flaming response?
Mike Holmans
On 4 May 1998 14:20:46 -0700, jm...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph
Michael Bay) wrote:
>"does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> writes:
>
>>i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious about the
>>rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded in
>>them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
>
>I'm not sure where it *originated*, but the rumor was vectored on
>an episode of the X-Files several years back. One of Mulder's friends,
>a stereotypical wacked-out stoner conspiracy theorist, was telling the
>agents about how the strip in $20+ bills allows "them" to know where
>you are and how much cash you're carrying. The official explanation
>is that it's an anti-counterfieting measure, although if you take the
>strip out (my roommate did this), the bill is still accepted (anecdotal
>evidence only).
>
TWIAVBP, then.
If a British shopkeeper were presented with a banknote which didn't
have the metal strip in it, he would almost certainly call the police,
as shopkeepers tend to take a dim view of being passed counterfeit
money.
Many till-operating units are instructed to slightly tear notes in
order to check that the strip is actually in the note, and not just a
spot of metallic paint.
The emergence of these exciting rumours about the currency in the USA
appears to be a lo cal phenomenon. I've never heard any of these types
of stories in normal countries, where 'normal' means those which
change the design of the currency notes on a fairly regular basis.
Mike "our stories are all about folding the notes in a special way to
reveal pictures of John McEnroe and so on" Holmans
El Sig just can not believe it
--
The exciting AFU FAQ, and many other things, can be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com
D. P. Roberts
>The emergence of these exciting rumours about the currency in the USA
>appears to be a lo cal phenomenon. I've never heard any of these types
>of stories in normal countries, where 'normal' means those which
>change the design of the currency notes on a fairly regular basis.
I've heard a very few people say that the strip is there for tracking, but
only a few. The more persistent rumour is that the strip is metallic and is
good only for locating very large amounts of currency, but then you have to
be fairly close, and then you could probably see the money anyway.
Actually, I believe the strip to be a thin plastic, which is not magnetic,
and is used to deter counterfeiting. I see more and more cashiers holding up
$20 and $50 bills to check for the strip. I do it for every bill that's new
enough to have one.
"Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; lick it once
and you'll suck forever."
Jim Everman
D. P. Roberts wrote:
>
> Actually, I believe the strip to be a thin plastic, which is not magnetic,
> and is used to deter counterfeiting.
Yes - on both counts.
Like I said earlier, I have pulled them out (really) and they are
transparent plastic. I believe it's mylar. They are printed with
the denomination of the note in a silver colored ink - likely
metalic, but I doubt that it is very (ferro) magnetic.
The printing on a $20 note (typical) says "USA TWENTY YTNEWT ASU"
(I know that's not perfect, but the idea is that it is readable
from either side).
> I see more and more cashiers holding up
> $20 and $50 bills to check for the strip.
They do that more and more in the USA also - it's slightly foolish
to pull the strips out, but at least for now you can still find
people who aren't even aware of them.
Lon Stowell
D. P. Roberts <in...@montoya.net> wrote:
>Actually, I believe the strip to be a thin plastic, which is not magnetic,
>$20 and $50 bills to check for the strip. I do it for every bill that's new
>enough to have one.
The strip is indeed plastic [info available on the us treasury
website]. It is cleverly impregnated with a compound that turns
dark if exposed to even the smallest traces of cocaine. The
cocaine exposure causes the secret compound to darken and display
the denomination of the note.
How was the strip impregnated? By the entire membership of a
high school football team of course.
Lon Stowell
Jim Everman <eve...@anet-stl.com> wrote:
> Like I said earlier, I have pulled them out (really) and they are
> transparent plastic. I believe it's mylar. They are printed with
> the denomination of the note in a silver colored ink - likely
> metalic, but I doubt that it is very (ferro) magnetic.
The strips are polyester. Most likely recycled from the cheap
suits of gov't agents.
Gory details at:
http://www.treas.gov/usss/money/newbill/moneymap.html
Of course, that IS an official gov't website and we all
know how much THEY can be trusted.
H Gilmer
does it matter? (bonem...@remove.easy.com) wrote:
: i know about the "reposting whole message" rule... i do get it... i have my
: reasons for the few i do repost and i am not going to conform to a group
: that chooses to insult someone they feel is of a lesser intelligence...
Like I said before, not reposting the whole message is not a matter of
conforming to a particular group. It's a no-no for just about any
newsgroup. If momma tells you not to read Penthouse, going out and
masturbating publicly isn't going to make much of a point with momma
and will hardly bring the neighbors over to your side of the argument.
Part of getting your point across effectively is *not* being as big an
asshole as the people you're complaining about. Moral high ground,
that sort of thing. If you act like a jerk, this vindicates the
people who flamed you to begin with, in many people's eyes, and just
gives more support to the whole notion of flaming.
So if your goal is actually to try to get people not to be so hostile,
this is not the way to go about it. On the other hand, if your goal
is merely to whine, I don't have any guidelines to offer, and your
method is just as good as any.
: don't sympathize, you can't help it for the way you are and i don't hold it
: against you.
Um, what exactly is the way I am?
: besides... what ever happened to simply asking someone to abide by the
: prefered etiquette instead of knee jerking to a flaming response?
It's under debate. Some of us prefer option A, and some prefer option
B. Part of what fuels option B is the assumption on some people's
part that newbies who do the wrong thing have already demonstrated
that they are doofuses and deserve to be treated as such. This
assumption may or may not be wrong, but responses like yours certainly
support it. And it pisses me off, because I hate it when people who
attack prematurely are then proved right.
Look up the "Freezing Water" thread in the OLD DejaNews archive for a
gruesome example of this. Granted, the poster in this case was an
idiot ('scuze me, "poor scientist") rather than a protocol violator,
but some of the issues are the same.
And do have a lovely day filled with flowers and chipmunks.
Hg
Edward Rice
In article <01bd76eb$8c6eb6a0$8af716cf@default>,
"does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious about
the
> rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location devices embedded
in
> them... presumably in the thin strip to the left of the portraits...
and then later you added, defensively...
i didn't say i beleaved it and i have never been to the conspiracy NG...
Okay. So, you aren't saying you believe in it, and you're not a
conspiracist. And it's not in the FAQ. And you're either inventing or
have heard a rumor. So, what are you curious about?
Do you want to know if there is a rumor? There is. If there wasn't before
you posted, there is now. Did you invent it? Then there's your answer.
If you didn't invent it, and would like to provide further information,
then you've wasted a lot of time in getting to that point. If you have no
further information, then your reference is wishful, along the lines of "If
there were a rumor, and it were about those little strips, who'd like to
tell me what that rumor might be?" Which would be silly, so of course that
isn't what you meant.
Did you want to know about the "voracity" (AFU truthfulness) of the
possibility? Apply some logic. Does it make sense to you that the
government might want to track a few hundred million pieces of paper
electronically? If so, have you figured out why? If not, then why would
They put tracking devices into the bills in the first place? And if they
did want to, and the tracking devices were supposed to be secret (er, AFU
"sekrit"), then would we be allowed to tell you?
What research have you done on this? Have you consulted with any
numismatologists? Called the number for the Department of the Treasury in
your local phone book's blue pages to ask? Gone to the web sites that
discuss the new bills to see what they say about the little strip? If not,
why should someone else do all that for you? And if you have, and there
was a reason given for the littles, and you don't believe that reason, then
why won't your share your reason for disbelief with us, instead of asking a
rather vague question?
This is really fun, "does it matter?" You arrived here with just one
question, which you brought to us presumably because you think questions
are good things, and here I am sending you off to do some work with a dozen
or more questions. You've multiplied the value of your original question
hugely, just by posting it to AFU. I wish we had more like you.
-- E "http://www.bep.treas.gov/50.htm" R
Bill Bedford
Mike Holmans <pos...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Mike "our stories are all about folding the notes in a special way to
> reveal pictures of John McEnroe and so on" Holmans
>
Or slicing a note in half with a razor blade so it can be used
twice............
> El Sig just can not believe it
I can't believe the US govermint has enough loyal people to track all
those notes................
--
Empty Sig
To confound the clueless
does it matter?
H Gilmer <gil...@uts.cc.utexas.edu> wrote
> If momma tells you not to read Penthouse, going out and
> masturbating publicly isn't going to make much of a point with momma
> And it pisses me off, because I hate it when people who
> attack prematurely are then proved right.
>
>
>
> And do have a lovely day filled with flowers and chipmunks.
>
> Hg
>
>
do you have high blood pressure?
just wondering...
oh... and can i masturbate on the chipmunks or do they bite? ouchee...
does it matter?
Edward Rice <ehr...@his.com> wrote
>
> This is really fun, "does it matter?" You arrived here with just one
> question, which you brought to us presumably because you think questions
> are good things, and here I am sending you off to do some work with a
dozen
> or more questions. You've multiplied the value of your original question
> hugely, just by posting it to AFU. I wish we had more like you.
>
good point... i had assumed that this is a forum were people can exchange
ideas or research on a given topic... this group specifically, i thought it
was about proving or disproving rumours...
i am still farely young and inexperienced and didn't know where to go for
research about something that i heard at a quilting circle... go figure...
the youth today is going to pot...
so i tried AFU...
i found a group with, what appeared to be, a truely fascinating field... i
was unaware that many members of the group insist each is the jeopardy
champion / time'sman of the year / what have you...
so i simply stated that i was "curious" about a rumour i had heard... and
instead of recieving answers that fit the "rules of netiquette" (which i
have been accused of ignoring) i have recieved many hateful responses...
both by e-mail and repost...
the very idea that i could be curious... hmph...
i guess children should be seen and not heard...
peace to all...
Glen Quarnstrom
"does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>i rest my case...
Ah, good.
May I suggest you spend your hiatus learning the finer points of
punctuation, capitalization, and proper newsgroup quoting etiquette?
[lengthy "rudeness" whine and followup (quoted in toto) snipped]
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~glenq/
Glen Quarnstrom
"does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>need i say more?
No. Goodbye, then.
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~glenq/
Lizz Holmans
>ideas or research on a given topic... this group specifically, i thought it
>was about proving or disproving rumours...
You were misinformed. Alt.Folklore.Urban is not alt.rumor-central.
Urban Folklore is often spread by people, just like rumors, but not
*all* rumors are urban folklore. What is or is not Urban Folklore is
pretty well defined in the FAQ and The Archive Formerly Known as
Cathouse. It's a fun read, and it starts at www.urbanlegends.com ; also
recommended is www.snopes.
If you can't handle that, and you can't take the time to lurk for a
while to see how the froup runs, how on earth do you have time to quilt
(which is a beautiful art, only called a craft because women have
usually done it)? All the quilters I've known knew that it took time to
achieve results, quick fixes were not respected among real quilters and
would not win ribbons at the best quilt shows, and had an idea they
wanted to show to the world--but only if it was done *right*.
On the other hand, too many newbies come flailing into AFU, mismatched
scraps in their hands, the careless stitching so evident you could pick
'em out with a steak knife, demanding that we take their miscarriage of
a quilt and award it 'best of show' simply because they found us and
thought we might just love it, poorly-made and esthetically disastrous
as it is.
And we don't.
>
>i am still farely young and inexperienced and didn't know where to go for
>research about something that i heard at a quilting circle... go figure...
>the youth today is going to pot...
>so i tried AFU...
Why AFU? Why not, since you heard it in a quilting circle, ask some of
your quilting friends? Or find a quilters' newsgroup (there's got to be
one--probably in the rec. hiearchy, so that's where I would look first.)
>
>i found a group with, what appeared to be, a truely fascinating field... i
>was unaware that many members of the group insist each is the jeopardy
>champion / time'sman of the year / what have you...
This is a truly fascinating field. That's why Dr.Jan Brunvand wrote so
many books about it. That's why the FAQ and the Archives were created,
why snopes and Barbara set up www.snopes.com
As far as credentials, well, we got some: we got MD docs, we got PhD
docs, and a fair number of litttle MAs and MSs running about the floor.
We have geologists, atronomers, etymologists and their oft-confused
consins entimologists, school teachers, school attenders, school drop-
outs, and school dinner-ladies. We have a large menagerie: sewergators,
jackalopes, binkies, and rats of every size and personality. We come
from a place called TWIAVBP, wether we are American, subjects of
UKoGBaNI, or Yurp. Some of us have no credentials at all, but a very
deep love for seeing language used humorously--and, here's the catch--
correctly at the same time.
>
>so i simply stated that i was "curious" about a rumour i had heard... and
>instead of recieving answers that fit the "rules of netiquette" (which i
>have been accused of ignoring) i have recieved many hateful responses...
>both by e-mail and repost...
Curiosity is no sin. Think a little more before you take a question to a
group you know sod-all (tM) about.
This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. But a hell of a lot of foolin'
around goes on here, which is why I stay.
>
>the very idea that i could be curious... hmph...
The very idea that you could have done a little cranial exercise before
you flang your fingers on the keyboard...hmph...
>
>i guess children should be seen and not heard...
If you're a child, and you are not ready to give up childish things, you
might be right about alt.folklore.urban.
>
>peace to all...
And this way to the Egress------------------------------------------>
Lizz 'And currently heartless' Holmans
--
Visit http://www.urbanlegends.com
Andrew Welsh
bra...@panix.com (Bo Bradham) wrote:
[currency in the faq]
: Bo "I was tipped off" Bradham
ObJustToAnnoyIanYork: At least 15%, I hope.
andrew "AFU only pays two-fifty an hour, so Bo needs all the help he can get"
Welsh
--
Andrew Welsh (and...@panix.com|http://www.panix.com/~andreww)
Opinions expressed above are not necessarily endorsed by my employers.
'Cleanliness' is not next to 'Godliness', 'Goatsucker' is next to 'Godliness'
- Doug White
sir does it matter?
Lizz Holmans <di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
> If you can't handle that, and you can't take the time to lurk for a
> while to see how the froup runs, how on earth do you have time to quilt
> (which is a beautiful art, only called a craft because women have
> usually done it)? All the quilters I've known knew that it took time to
> achieve results, quick fixes were not respected among real quilters and
> would not win ribbons at the best quilt shows, and had an idea they
> wanted to show to the world--but only if it was done *right*.
>
i bet you are divorced...
i pity you...
Don Whittington
In article <01bd7918$5f331080$92f716cf@default>, "sir does it matter?"
<bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
(crap deleted)
Dear puss boy,
Apparently someone told you once that you are fit for human society. They lied.
It saddens me to know that somewhere a perfectly good dog is dead by its
own hand for the shame of having birthed you.
*Ploink*
Don Whittington
Alan Krueger
In article <01bd7918$5f331080$92f716cf@default>,
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>
>
> i pity you...
Ah, so you're really here only to troll, and not even entertainingly.
*plonk*
--
W. Alan Krueger |--------- http://bounce.to/alan-krueger ---------------
Software Engineer | "Even I have to ask - when was the last time
EXi Corporation | you received a moral, ethical OR legal spam?"
www.exicorp.com | - Sanford Wallace, formerly of CyberPromotions
James Linn
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote in article
<01bd7918$5f331080$92f716cf@default>...
> i bet you are divorced...
>
you lose. I claim my two fifty. Make the check out to
James Linn,
Canadian division,
AFU Ltd
One AFU Plaza
NY,NY
> i pity you...
>
You needn't. Lizz is well respected here. You, on the other hand, could be
if you chose to enlighten yourself as to the group mores and culture. If
you don't, and chose to continue to harass, then I pity you.
James Linn
My opinions are MINE,MINE,MINE!!!
Mike Holmans
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> felt like saying:
>
>
>Lizz Holmans <di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
>
>i bet you are divorced...
>
>i pity you...
Child, go back to bed.
Mike "" Holmans
The exciting AFU FAQ, and many other things, may be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com
Edward Rice
In article <01bd7880$eca930e0$7af716cf@default>,
"does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> i guess children should be seen and not heard...
Ah -- you really /do/ understand the newsgroup protocol! At first, I
thought you didn't. Yes, you're exactly right.
Look, let's say you were sitting around your quilting circle, chattering
happily away with your buddies. A complete stranger jumps into the room!
He then does whatever the quilting equivalent of the following
"contributions" to the newsgroup represent. How long would it be before
you figured out that the person was either purposefully disruptive, or
simply stupid? Well, it takes us just a little less time than it would
you. Here's what you've brought into _this_ circle, verbatim, as it were:
| how about the guy that went to take his final exam in
| philosophy...?
|
| the only question on the exam was "Why?"
|
| after observing his fellow students frantically scribbling
| paragraph after paragraph to answer such a deep philosophical
| question, he simply sat at his desk, wrote the answer, and handed
| in the exam...
|
| the answer... "Because."
|
| he scored an A on the exam...
| i didn't see anything about this in the faq... but i am curious
| about the rumour that the new US $50 and $20 bills have location
| devices embedded in them... presumably in the thin strip to the
| left of the portraits...
| is it true what they say about asphalt?
| i heard on a local radio station in dallas, tx. about a family
| who were at the olympics in atlanta when thier hotel room had been
| broken into...
|
| the odd thing was that nothing had been taken... just a few
| personal items were out of place... even things like thier camera
| and walkmans were left there by the burglars...
|
| however, about two weeks later the family had gotten thier
| pictures back from the developers with a few pictures that the
| burglars had taken of themselves after breaking into the hotel
| room...
|
| the pictures showed only the burglars bare butts with toothbrushes
| sticking out of them... the toothbrushes belonged to the family
| staying in the hotel room.
| is it true that the prisoners at the insane asylums in guatemala
| grow really hot pepers that cause hallucinations?
| wondering if anyone had the scoop on the person that supposedly
| save enough pepsi points to win the harrier jet... i think he also
| had to pay $10,000 to make up for a shortage of points... it was
| supposed to have gone to court and the court sided with the
| plaintiff...
Now, just how stupid do you think the regulars here might need to be, to
not recognize that you're scooping up old ULs and throwing them into the
newsgroup again, making a deliberate effort to distract from regular
business?
It makes us proud to be Amurricans (AIAVBP), to know that you're able to
use DejaNews so effectively. After a while we'll stop being so damned
polite.
D. P. Roberts
>Did you want to know about the "voracity" (AFU truthfulness) of the
>possibility? Apply some logic. Does it make sense to you that the
>government might want to track a few hundred million pieces of paper
>electronically? If so, have you figured out why? If not, then why would
>They put tracking devices into the bills in the first place? And if they
>did want to, and the tracking devices were supposed to be secret (er, AFU
>"sekrit"), then would we be allowed to tell you?
The private sector does that all the time. It's why I get so much damn
specific junk mail.
I can think of any number of reasons why pointy-headed pencil-neck
Neanderthal-brained government drones and bureaucrats would want to track me,
my money, and what I spend it on. There also happens to be a bunch of
regulations regarding how much cash you can carry before it raises alarm
bells, how much money (YOUR OWN MONEY) you can withdraw, etc. One poor chap
down in Florida was carrying $9,000 cash to buy supplies to make repairs
after a hurricane. He was stopped and the cash was confiscated. After much
battling with the local law enforcement group, they finally gave him back
HALF of it. There are thousands of other such horror stories. The whole
damn system in the United States has gone confiscation crazy. Personal and
property rights are routinely violated, and have resulted in the murder of
the victims, as in the case of Donald Scott. "USA Today" runs, each
Wednesday, a list of people who have had property confiscated. A couple of
years ago they did a report that said 80% of those people were never even
charged, yet the property was kept. Either charge them or give the property
back. This is supposedly still a free country.
Lon Stowell
H Gilmer <gil...@mail.take.this.out.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Ooh, don't be mean to him. He'll get testy and forward chain letters
>to you.
Only as long as the little dork has internet access. His postmaster
was not amused. Neither were any of the ones in the pathetic
attempt at forging an SMTP header.
Robert Alston
sir does it matter? wrote in message <01bd7955$6fb29ec0$6ef716cf@default>...
>
>
>Lon Stowell <lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com> wrote
>>
>> Only as long as the little dork has internet access. His postmaster
>> was not amused. Neither were any of the ones in the pathetic
>> attempt at forging an SMTP header.
>>
>>
>
>nice try... but i am sure that you haven't talked to my postmaster... but
>even if you did it wouldn't make a difference...
>
>be well
Excuse me? You actually think you can hide your posting origin from Lon
Stowell? Congratulations! You have won AFU inc's prestigious Idiot of the
Year award. This exclusive award consists of one patented AFU ClueDriver
(tm) worth the large sum of two-fifty. You may pick up your award at One AFU
Plaza or you may turn it in and try for the equally prestigious Moron of the
Year award.
Robert "I bet he asks who Lon is and earns the award any takers?" Alston
H Gilmer
Edward Rice (ehr...@his.com) wrote:
: In article <01bd7880$eca930e0$7af716cf@default>,
: "does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
: > i guess children should be seen and not heard...
: Ah -- you really /do/ understand the newsgroup protocol! At first, I
: thought you didn't. Yes, you're exactly right.
Ooh, don't be mean to him. He'll get testy and forward chain letters
to you.
Hg
sir does it matter?
Alan Krueger <kru...@cs.umn.edu> wrote
> Ah, so you're really here only to troll, and not even entertainingly.
>
> *plonk*
>
>
i am here for different reasons depending on my mood... mood seems to
change when people act rude... i would like to be humble and just take the
abuse, but i am still trying to grasp self-discipline at my age...
originally, i had a sincere question, but was attacked for being a newbie,
or not knowing about the FAQ, or my writting style, or my typos, or because
i don't have a masters, or (need i go on?)
so now... i try not to take any of you seriously... which has to be the
greatest form of contempt for a group that generally behaves like i have
seen here.
be well...
sir does it matter?
James Linn <james...@nortel.com> wrote
> You needn't. Lizz is well respected here. You, on the other hand, could
be
> if you chose to enlighten yourself as to the group mores and culture. If
> you don't, and chose to continue to harass, then I pity you.
>
>
i have been nothing but harrassed since i started posting on this
newsgroup... (a few exceptions which i gave credit to)
and as far as respect goes... i know dogs that respect thier owners... but
it's primarily out of fear...
i tend to respect those that don't have something snooty to say because
they are upset that someone has an inquiry to a public forum...
sir does it matter?
Mike Holmans <pos...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >i bet you are divorced...
> >
> Not from me, she's not.
>
> >i pity you...
>
> Child, go back to bed.
>
> Mike "" Holmans
>
work hard on that one?
sir does it matter?
Don Whittington <donc...@flash.net> wrote
> Dear puss boy,
>
> Apparently someone told you once that you are fit for human society.
They lied.
>
> It saddens me to know that somewhere a perfectly good dog is dead by its
> own hand for the shame of having birthed you.
>
> *Ploink*
>
> Don Whittington
>
yep, even my own mother once told me that i am the lowest person she has
ever known...
she told me this because i called her collect... go figure...
i still love her though... after all... she's my mom...
peace and be well...
sir does it matter?
Edward Rice <ehr...@his.com> wrote
>
> Now, just how stupid do you think the regulars here might need to be, to
> not recognize that you're scooping up old ULs and throwing them into the
> newsgroup again, making a deliberate effort to distract from regular
> business?
>
> It makes us proud to be Amurricans (AIAVBP), to know that you're able to
> use DejaNews so effectively. After a while we'll stop being so damned
> polite.
>
>
>
>
the ULs i listed (the ones i was serious about anyways) were completly new
to me... i have never seen dejanews and don't really know what it is except
what people have reffered it as: some sort of history file from what i can
make of it... i will look it up one day...
the posts i wasn't serious about were my invention to annoy those who
insist on being annoyed.. and it worked...
and what regular business is conducted here that couldn't continue after
someone politely answered my post?
you see... i would prefer a happy coexistence in the AFU NG, but for
various reasons that i can't change, i seem to be unwelcome... such is
life... but i refuse to be squelched in a forum where i have a right to be
heard...
sir does it matter?
now mr gilmer...
you can't say that you are innocent of inappropriate mailings...
be well
sir does it matter?
H Gilmer
sir does it matter? (bonem...@remove.easy.com) wrote:
: the ULs i listed (the ones i was serious about anyways) were completly new
: to me... i have never seen dejanews and don't really know what it is except
: what people have reffered it as: some sort of history file from what i can
: make of it... i will look it up one day...
Yes. Welcome to Usenet. DejaNews is your friend, as much as the FAQ.
: the posts i wasn't serious about were my invention to annoy those who
: insist on being annoyed.. and it worked...
: and what regular business is conducted here that couldn't continue after
: someone politely answered my post?
: you see... i would prefer a happy coexistence in the AFU NG, but for
: various reasons that i can't change, i seem to be unwelcome... such is
: life... but i refuse to be squelched in a forum where i have a right to be
: heard...
You *can* change the reasons. You are unwelcome because, as you
admit, you are deliberately being a jerk. You started exactly *one*
seriously intended thread, which got some sarcastic replies, and you
went ballistic.
No one is trying to squelch *you* as an individual. Just you as an
asshole. The "right" to be heard? To be heard doing what? It's not
against any federal statutes to come in here and spew whatever you
like. But it's against the way things are done, Usenet-wide. *All*
groups, not just AFU, have their individual cultures, and standards of
appropriateness.
I am on record as stating that all people are basically shits.
However, I prefer not to be surrounded by assholes, so I do my best to
believe that the people I actually come into contact with are in fact,
deep down, not assholes, or at least have the potential not to be
assholes. You keep showing glimmers of not being a complete asshole.
I wish you'd follow through with that.
There are other people here who made similar bad initial impressions,
who are now at least tolerated, if not universally admired. We'd
rather have you as an active participant than a flame target, believe
it or not. All you have to do is get over your tantrum, and develop a
slightly thicker skin when it comes to sarcasm. In case you hadn't
noticed, there's been a tad bit of productive discussion of your
original currency question. Had you shut up and waited a bit, this
discussion would probably have come up anyway, without the current
hostilities.
Yes, you'll have to swallow your pride, but if you start contributing
in a positive manner, very few if any people will gloat over your
transformation. (And if they do, everyone else will know that
*they're* the assholes, and not you, so you can let it slide.) It's
not a matter of "us" (whoever "we" are) winning and you losing. It's
a matter of resolving a situation.
I am still willing to believe that you initially came here because you
wanted to participate, and not to start a flame war. You can still do
that. You don't need to admit defeat, you don't need to apologize
(except maybe to Lizz, but that's between you and her), you don't need
to retract anything. You just have to quit being a weenie.
Those of us who haven't killfiled you yet are eagerly awaiting your
contributions. We probably won't be thrilled with them, we probably
won't pat you on the back for them, and we might make flippant remarks
about them. That doesn't mean we're out to get you.
I really, really hope this helps.
Hg
sir does it matter?
Robert Alston <Rom...@tcon.net> wrote
> >nice try... but i am sure that you haven't talked to my postmaster...
but
> >even if you did it wouldn't make a difference...
> >
> >be well
>
> Excuse me? You actually think you can hide your posting origin from Lon
> Stowell?
> Robert "I bet he asks who Lon is and earns the award any takers?"
Alston
>
>
>
i didn't say that i could hide my posting... please reread the statement i
made above for clarity... moron indeed...
robert "crazy enough to bet against himself (who is lon, anyways)" sims : )
be well
sir does it matter?
H Gilmer <gil...@uts.cc.utexas.edu> wrote
> All you have to do is get over your tantrum, and develop a
> slightly thicker skin when it comes to sarcasm.
i like to fun and game just as much as everyone else, but it was not just
one instance of sarcasm that started this snowball... i have recieved 7
email that directly insulted me, my intelligence, my writing style, and the
list continues... the main point i am tryng to make with most of this is
that there is no need to be rude... you too, have emailed me and its
content went way beyond tantrum... an individual with THIN skin would have
tucked and ran by this point... (however, retreat is not allways a sign of
weakness)
> In case you hadn't
> noticed, there's been a tad bit of productive discussion of your
> original currency question. Had you shut up and waited a bit, this
> discussion would probably have come up anyway, without the current
> hostilities.
i have read each comment on this thread as well as the the other threads
that i have posted and i have credited those that responded with politeness
in contrast to the majority of reposts and emails... agian i say to those
kind folks; thank you...
>
> Yes, you'll have to swallow your pride, but if you start contributing
> in a positive manner, very few if any people will gloat over your
> transformation. (And if they do, everyone else will know that
> *they're* the assholes, and not you, so you can let it slide.) It's
> not a matter of "us" (whoever "we" are) winning and you losing. It's
> a matter of resolving a situation.
my primary two or three posts have been positive contributions and these
are also the ones that recieved the initial scorn... my secondary posts
were the ones that directly asked why so many (not all) insisted on being
so rude... these post have attracted the most response... this is an error
on my part; i have forgotten that a pack of wolves will take the prey that
stops to lick its wounds... we as humans act like the very best of natures
predators... my triartary posts were designed only to agitate those who
insist on being agitated... most people who answered joked around with
them, proving that i have underestimated the humour level of the NG in
general... others had reacted with a great deal of agitation, which is what
i was after, the blowholes...
> I am still willing to believe that you initially came here because you
> wanted to participate, and not to start a flame war. You can still do
> that. You don't need to admit defeat, you don't need to apologize
> (except maybe to Lizz, but that's between you and her), you don't need
> to retract anything. You just have to quit being a weenie.
while talking defeat or victory, win or loose, i have to say that we have
all lost here... we are acting like scool children trying to prove who is
smarter or who is tougher or who has the best come backs...
> Those of us who haven't killfiled you yet are eagerly awaiting your
> contributions. We probably won't be thrilled with them, we probably
> won't pat you on the back for them, and we might make flippant remarks
> about them. That doesn't mean we're out to get you.
>
> I really, really hope this helps.
>
> Hg
>
in closing, thank you mr gilmer for a more sincere response, despite the
personal jabs...
i am not seeking newsgroup glory, just a forum to express my veiws and
learn from... and i always prefer wit over sarcasm, but i expect both...
i would challenge you to go back over the threads involving this whole
event and analyze the number of _direct_ and _inderect_ insults i have
made as compared to the number made from each individual (not the
collective)... i'm sure you will find that in most instances i have avoided
sentances that directly attacked any one individual... however, i have
attacked the group of those that refused polite corespondance, and i would
think it a safe bet that those who felt they were in that group were the
ones that replied...
yours in growing respect,
robert "journey of a thousand miles begins with socks and shoes" sims
"pen and sword in accord"
---musashi
Paraic O'Donnell
On 7 May 1998 11:23:59 GMT, "sir does it matter?"
<bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>while talking defeat or victory, win or loose, i have to say that we have
>all lost here... we are acting like scool children trying to prove who is
>smarter or who is tougher
You slipmelled "I". Quite a feat.
>or who has the best come backs...
You wouldn't recognise wit if it pulled up outside your house in a
six-car motorcade, shouldered through your front door and buggered you
with a fire extinguisher.
We have the best come-backs. Trust me.
Meanwhile, you owe our friend Lizz an apology. After that, you should
shut up and read other peoples' posts for while. The alternative is to
persist with your tedious whining, thereby forcing even the most
tolerant of those present to killfile you.
Paraic "nicey-nicey week is overy-fucking-wovery, OK?" O'Donnell
James Linn
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote in article
<01bd7951$93dba840$6ef716cf@default>...
>
>
> James Linn <james...@nortel.com> wrote
> > You needn't. Lizz is well respected here. You, on the other hand, could
> be
> > if you chose to enlighten yourself as to the group mores and culture.
If
> > you don't, and chose to continue to harass, then I pity you.
> >
> >
>
> i have been nothing but harrassed since i started posting on this
> newsgroup... (a few exceptions which i gave credit to)
>
I've posted about this before. In fact probably once a year for the past
three years, and I've already posted this year, so I'm working on borrowed
time.
Everyone here was a newbie once. Everyone here had a first post. Thousands
of us weren't flamed for our first post.
Have I been flamed - sure. Did I deserve it? Well I didn't think so in the
heat of the moment, but the luxury of time and perspective have mellowed me
somewhat, and I see that I did richly deserve flaming at times. The worst
time was when as a person posting for about a year, I claimed to speak for
the group. That was wrong, and I was told so, firmly and insistantly. I
misjudged the group (they weren't al of one mind on the issue) and I paid
the price. But since I had made some contributions to the group, I was
scolded privately and all was forgiven.
> and as far as respect goes... i know dogs that respect thier owners...
but
> it's primarily out of fear...
My dog loves me, and respects me. Dogs trained with fear become dogs to
fear.
>
> i tend to respect those that don't have something snooty to say because
> they are upset that someone has an inquiry to a public forum...
One more time. We have newbies posting everyday with inquiries. They aren't
all flamed. We even have newbies who don't lurk, don't read the FAQ, post a
UL that has just been discussed to death for three weeks, and they still
don't get flamed.
What we have a problem with is newbies who claim to see all and know all,
and let us know quite clearly that they do, without regard to the sum of
knowledge in the FAQ or the archives.
It is basic netiquette that newbies try and learn about the group by
lurking and reading the FAQ before diving in. If you don't, you post at
your peril. Believe it or not, there are other groups more stringent about
these rules than this one.
H Gilmer
sir does it matter? (bonem...@remove.easy.com) wrote:
: i like to fun and game just as much as everyone else, but it was not just
: one instance of sarcasm that started this snowball... i have recieved 7
: email that directly insulted me, my intelligence, my writing style, and the
Before or after you started going out of your way to be the biggest
schmuck you could possibly be? Anything you received after doesn't
count; you asked for it fair and square.
: that there is no need to be rude... you too, have emailed me and its
: content went way beyond tantrum...
Kiddo, I sent you email after a rude post to me, and after you'd
started your public tantrum in earnest. It started out with, "Look,
you turd...", but the rest was along the same lines as all my public
posts to you. Face it, you *have* been acting like a turd. You
*admit* acting like a turd, even if you think you were justified in
doing so. Maybe I shouldn't have called you one, but you're implying
I sent you something that was nothing but the most heinous of abuse.
The only reason I sent it to you privately was because I saw no point
in dragging the rest of the group into it, not because I wanted to
flame you with no witnesses. I would have had no problems posting the
same thing in public.
And for some reason you chose to retaliate, *after* sending me a
rather reasonable reply (diversion?), by sending junk to my account.
And for some reason I haven't reported you for it yet and am still
continuing to talk to you like you're a reasonable, intelligent human
being. Take that as you will.
: (however, retreat is not allways a sign of
: weakness)
I'm glad you agree. So you can retreat with your head held high and
your keyboard stiff and erect.
: > that. You don't need to admit defeat, you don't need to apologize
: > (except maybe to Lizz, but that's between you and her), you don't need
: > to retract anything. You just have to quit being a weenie.
: while talking defeat or victory, win or loose, i have to say that we have
: all lost here... we are acting like scool children trying to prove who is
: smarter or who is tougher or who has the best come backs...
My point exactly. And as long as you continue to piss on our living
room rug, we'll continue to get annoyed. We're not trying to exercise
power over you; we're trying to maintain this group as something
worthwhile. This is not about victory, and if you cut it out you will
not have been defeated.
: in closing, thank you mr gilmer for a more sincere response, despite the
: personal jabs...
I've been sincere all along. And if you think what you got from me
were incredibly harsh and underserved personal jabs, considering how
you've been acting, your skin is not nearly as thick as you think it
is.
: i am not seeking newsgroup glory, just a forum to express my veiws and
: learn from... and i always prefer wit over sarcasm, but i expect both...
Great! So chill out, take a few deep breaths, lurk for a while to get
a better feel for what goes and doesn't go, and c'mon back! If you
want, I can compile a list of new folks who managed to come in
*without* pissing everyone off and even without starting their first
post with "Please don't hurt me", so you can check your new friend
DejaNews and see how it *can* be done. I can't do that till finals
are over, but if you're still interested talk to me in about a week
and a half. Actually, you could even do this yourself. Pick someone
who appears to be a regular, and check to see how long they've been
posting to this group. Then check their earlier posts, to see how
they made their entrance. You'd be surprised at how recently some of
the "regulars" got here. (And for an example of how *not* to do it,
in case you stumble across it on your own and use that as further
evidence of the non-acceptance of newbies, check Kerro's entrance and
the ensuing 200-post thread. But to Kerro's credit, he kept that
little tiff within that thread, and has for the most part not allowed
his pride to prevent him from becoming an accepted poster here. Hi,
Kerro, sorry to drag you into this.)
As far as sarcasm, you just gotta expect it around here. Nothing you
can do about it but acquire a taste for it. Again, if your post is
not as well received as you'd like, this does not mean we are out to
get you.
: collective)... i'm sure you will find that in most instances i have avoided
: sentances that directly attacked any one individual... however, i have
: attacked the group of those that refused polite corespondance, and i would
The only individuals I noticed you addressing directly were me and
Lizz Holmans. You were supremely nasty to Lizz and moderately rude to
me. And neither of us was particularly abusive to you; we just
pointed out what was going on (did that make us easier targets than
the people who were being really nasty?). I've been going out of my
way to keep a civilized line of conversation open to you, because I
think there's hope for you to be a contributor rather than a
terrorist, and I think your feelings may be genuinely hurt, rather
than you just being a troll. I'm sure by now there are plenty of
people who disagree with me on this. You can prove them wrong.
Truce?
Hg
Jerry Gaiser
In article <355216d8...@news.ieunet.ie>,
Paraic O'Donnell <odon...@quarterdeck.com> wrote:
>
>Meanwhile, you owe our friend Lizz an apology. After that, you should
>shut up and read other peoples' posts for while. The alternative is to
>persist with your tedious whining, thereby forcing even the most
>tolerant of those present to killfile you.
>
>Paraic "nicey-nicey week is overy-fucking-wovery, OK?" O'Donnell
>
I doubt if he will either shut up or apologize (though he does
seemed to have learned about quoting entire files).
So, down he goes to the bottom of my killfile. This isn't even
much fun anymore.
Jerry "one of the quiet lurkers" Gaiser
--
Jerry Gaiser -- jer...@powerslave.jf.intel.com
I don't speak for Intel and Intel doesn't speak for me!
Andrew Welsh
odon...@quarterdeck.com wrote:
: Paraic "nicey-nicey week is overy-fucking-wovery, OK?" O'Donnell
Believe me, it hasn't even started yet. Here's what the NICE (Needless
Invective Cancelling Environment) subcommittee of the NICEY (Nice
Independent Council Endeavouring Yearly) committee suggested at their
last meeting (meetings held annually, 4.30pm, Thursdays, 98th Floor conference
room, 1 AFU Plaza):
1. The alt.folklore.ghost-stories bunch should stick to what they do best
(whatever it is that they do in a.f.g-s, not getting uppity over nothing
in afu)
2. The meta-meta-posting should be kept to a minimum. The committee has seen
more posts about posts and posting styles than about almost anything else
in recent times. Perhaps we need to point out that "Canada is a pathetic
pie" again, just to redress the balance.
3. Realise that whilst it's admirable to praise/denigrate on behalf of the
group, if the same people do it all the time it does seem almost, well,
cabalistic. Not that there's a cabal of course. Unless there's a cabal
of denigrators, and I wasn't invited.
4. Before posting, sit back and consider the world. The sun shining (unless
it's raining where you are), children playing in the yard[1], a cold
beverage of your choice in your hand, your best girl/boy/farmyard animal
by your side. Drift away on these thoughts. Then think to yourself, am
I really enriching the group, and the lives of those that read it, by
posting this message? Then think some more.
5. Be nice to one another. For the most part you're all my best mates. And
I lurrve you. In a male bonding sense, of course. Unless you're female, in
which case I lurrve you too, as long as my girlfriend doesn't find out.
And if she does I'll deny everything.
andrew "can you feel the lurrrve tonight?" Welsh
[1] ObFastShow: young boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts, marvellous.
--
Andrew Welsh (and...@panix.com|http://www.panix.com/~andreww)
Opinions expressed above are not necessarily endorsed by my employers.
"If an idea can't be expressed in words, there's no point talking about it."
- Lee Rudolph
sir does it matter?
Susan Vaughn <windj...@mindspring.com> wrote
> Ah! Another victiH^H^H^ graduate of the Callifornya scool
> system.
>
>
> - Susan "Hearth Transplant" Vaughn
>
>
>
forgive me susan... what did i mispell that caused you to feel that my
message wasn't important?
sir does it matter?
mr gilmer,
if i am to understand you correctly, you feel that it is better to react to
rude remarks about ones post instead of simply pointing out that you think
people ought not to be rude...
to point out that you feel someone is rude is to say that you are week ,
can't handle criticism, and that you whine...
on the other hand, it is far better to engage in personal attacks and name
calling and other forms of child war...
if this is your reasoning then i am afraid i cannot comply. i think much
more of myself than to see who has the best comebacks...
incidentally, there is message i posted towards the top of the page (top if
your reader list newest messages first) that i think that you would be
interested in reading...
at any rate, i feel confident that making a complaint in a forum is much
better than name calling...
sir does it matter?
Paraic O'Donnell <odon...@quarterdeck.com> wrote
> You slipmelled "I". Quite a feat.
>
> >or who has the best come backs...
>
> You wouldn't recognise wit if it pulled up outside your house in a
> six-car motorcade
>
> We have the best come-backs. Trust me.
>
>
this is exactly what i am trying to get across... my post wasn't a matter
of who could make the best comebacks, but that we shouldn't be trying to
make the best comebacks...
and you mispelled "realize".
peace and be well
--
<bonem...@easy.com>
Know your enemy and know yourself
and you will be victorious.
--- Sun Tzu
sir does it matter?
Jerry Gaiser <jer...@powerslave.jf.intel.com> wrote
> >
>
> I doubt if he will either shut up or apologize (though he does
> seemed to have learned about quoting entire files).
>
>
i have already learned about quoting whole files... when i do quote whole
files, there is a reason for it...
peace and be well
sir does it matter?
hehehe... you made a funny... i liked it...
be well
robert sims
THE VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE DO NOT REPRESENT THOSE OF
ALT.FOLKLORE.GHOST-STORIES... SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN REPRESENT MINE.
sir does it matter?
James Linn <james...@nortel.com> wrote
> I've posted about this before. In fact probably once a year for the past
> three years, and I've already posted this year, so I'm working on
borrowed
> time.
>
> Everyone here was a newbie once. Everyone here had a first post.
Thousands
> of us weren't flamed for our first post.
>
>
> > and as far as respect goes... i know dogs that respect thier owners...
> but
> > it's primarily out of fear...
>
> My dog loves me, and respects me. Dogs trained with fear become dogs to
> fear.
my dog also loves and respects me, the most important part of our
relationship is that i love and respect my dog (as one would a dog)...
this is how our relationship has progressed and for that matter, the way
all relationships should... with a great deal of respect for each side...
(let me clarify, i did not intend to make it sound as thought my dog fears
me, she doesn't at all)
> What we have a problem with is newbies who claim to see all and know all,
> and let us know quite clearly that they do, without regard to the sum of
> knowledge in the FAQ or the archives.
i never claimed to see all or know all... i simply asked a question and the
snowball slipped from my grasp... i did not know there was a FAQ for AFU,
and had i known i would not have known that it had answers to ULs. i would
have thought it to only have the preferred style for the newsgroup like
other newsgroups that i have been to...
>
> It is basic netiquette that newbies try and learn about the group by
> lurking and reading the FAQ before diving in. If you don't, you post at
> your peril. Believe it or not, there are other groups more stringent
about
> these rules than this one.
>
i would think that basic netiquette would also include that people don't
flame, insult, or degrade others for content in a message...
>
thank you james... it means a lot to me that you would take the time to
offer this good advise. unfortunately it has come a bit to late to stop
the deluge...
sir does it matter?
>
> and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be
so
> rude?
>
my apologies to the group... my use of the word "everyone" was not a good
choice...
perhaps the sentance should read:
"and BTW... what is it about this group that so many feel they must be so
rude?"
this way i am no accusing everyone but only the guilty...
again... my apologies about this error...
David Hatunen
In article <01bd79e4$c20edbe0$7ef716cf@default>,
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>
>
>mr gilmer,
>
>if i am to understand you correctly, you feel that it is better to react to
>rude remarks about ones post instead of simply pointing out that you think
>people ought not to be rude...
>
>to point out that you feel someone is rude is to say that you are week ,
>can't handle criticism, and that you whine...
>
>on the other hand, it is far better to engage in personal attacks and name
>calling and other forms of child war...
Are you an e e cummings fan? Or are you Archy? I English your
native language?
>if this is your reasoning then i am afraid i cannot comply. i think much
>more of myself than to see who has the best comebacks...
>
>incidentally, there is message i posted towards the top of the page (top if
>your reader list newest messages first) that i think that you would be
>interested in reading...
You apparently know very little about Usenet and newsreaders. The
tops of our pages are not the same things as the top of your page
(page?).
>at any rate, i feel confident that making a complaint in a forum is much
>better than name calling...
--
*********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@wco.com) ************
* Daly City California: *
* where San Francisco meets The Peninsula *
******* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *******
sir does it matter?
> Kiddo, I sent you email after a rude post to me,
sorry mr gilmer...
check the posts... you reposted something not that kind and i responded...
David Hatunen
In article <01bd79e5$f8377e60$7ef716cf@default>,
>
>> You slipmelled "I". Quite a feat.
>>
>> >or who has the best come backs...
>>
>> You wouldn't recognise wit if it pulled up outside your house in a
>> six-car motorcade
>>
>> We have the best come-backs. Trust me.
>>
>this is exactly what i am trying to get across... my post wasn't a matter
>of who could make the best comebacks, but that we shouldn't be trying to
>make the best comebacks...
>
>and you mispelled "realize".
I expect he consistently misspells 'labor' and 'honor', too.
TWIAVBP, and so is Usenet. Time you learned that.
And you misspelled 'misspelled', unless you've finally discovered a
sense of humor, which I doubt.
sir does it matter?
David Hatunen <hatunen@shell.> wrote
> Are you an e e cummings fan? Or are you Archy? I English your
> native language?
not really, no, and kinda...
> You apparently know very little about Usenet and newsreaders. The
> tops of our pages are not the same things as the top of your page
> (page?).
>
yes... i know... this is why my disclaimer was in parenthesis... please
re-read for clarity...
> >incidentally, there is message i posted towards the top of the page (top
if
> >your reader list newest messages first) that i think that you would be
> >interested in reading...
be well...
sir does it matter?
David Hatunen <hatunen@shell.> wrote
> I expect he consistently misspells 'labor' and 'honor', too.
him or me? i tend to use -our like the brits... don't know where i picked
it up to be honest...
>
> TWIAVBP, and so is Usenet. Time you learned that.
TWIAVBP is OOTATIDYKBMODIWL
> And you misspelled 'misspelled', unless you've finally discovered a
> sense of humor, which I doubt.
>
that silly double s gets me everytime...
i would rather we all spell like shakespearean times... by preference...
peace
mitcho
sir does it matter? wrote:
> THE VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE DO NOT REPRESENT THOSE OF
> ALT.FOLKLORE.GHOST-STORIES... SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN REPRESENT MINE.
That's good to hear, considering the sort of crap they are up to over
there:
--------------- Begin included message ---------------
Subject: Re: a scolding from another group...
Date: 6 May 1998 10:38:50 GMT
From: Colin Tan <tank...@luakt-r2.iscs.nus.edu.sg>
Organization: National University of Singapore
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Anonymous <nob...@REPLAY.COM> wrote:
: Perhaps someone should pay them a little visit. Maybe stir them up a
bit.
Check out the Ray's post there about Three Men and a Baby... <LOL>
Bad boy Ray! Bad boy!
BTW Ray, I kinda miss your Tales from the Hellmouth stories.. last one I
read
was almost a week ago.
If I'm a little free-er end-of-the-week I might mosey over to afu and
post
"Hey guys! I just read from a.h.o-l.t that there was a mummy's curse on
the Titanic! *8=O
What do you folks make out of it? Apparently a WT Stead had smuggled the
accuserd mummy on board and... "
I must ensure that I liberally pepper my post with acronyms and
emoticons.
The folks in afu love these things!
axel heyst
In article <35525E...@netcom.com>,
mitcho <mit...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Snip mitcho's quote of a field report from a daring denizen of AFG-S
I popped over there for a bit to get a gander at what sort of things
they discuss, and I don't think it's at all out of the question that
Way-Ray's use of the psychic pet therapist bait was based on something they
regard with more than a little credibility.
Also, I found mitcho's call to arms extremely funny. Is there a story
behind the reference to ARK?
axel heyst
Chris Grace
sir does it matter? (bonem...@remove.easy.com) wrote:
: >
: > and BTW... what is it about this group that everyone feels they must be
: so
: > rude?
: >
I suggest you piss off back to your cosy little afg-s group and continue to tell
the rest of the denizens of that sink hole how they are all more intelligent
than the denizens of afu. If trolling afu is a sign of intelligence then they must
all be of genius quality, as even a cursory perusal of their spelling, grammar and
punctuation will show.
<plonk>
--
Join the Prissy & Perky's Slop Parade (aka The Old Farts Mailing List) We
believe in King, Country, Flogging, Cold Baths, flogging, The Empire,
flogging, Rum, Sodomy, The Lash, and flogging. Management reserves right of
admission. E-Mail sco...@transdata.co.nz with SUBSCRIBE as subject
Barbara Mikkelson
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> i would rather we all spell like shakespearean times... by preference...
Bugger you. I'm a nice 'n' easy girl.
Barbara "either that or just for men" Mikkelson
--
Barbara Mikkelson | Let's all just return quietly to the
bmik...@fas.harvard.edu | circumcision thread. - Ulo Melton
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had your spooning today? --> http://www.snopes.com
Angus Johnston
mitcho <mit...@netcom.com> wrote:
> sir does it matter? wrote:
>
> > THE VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE DO NOT REPRESENT THOSE OF
> > ALT.FOLKLORE.GHOST-STORIES... SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN REPRESENT MINE.
>
> That's good to hear, considering the sort of crap they are up to over
> there:
>
> --------------- Begin included message ---------------
Go easy on the afg-sers, Mitcho. A few of them responded to Sir Does's
call to trolling with Beavosity like the drek you quoted, but more told him
to back off. The prevailing feeling over there seems to be "Inciting
intergroup flamefests is punk, and besides, the afu folks will kick our
ass." Their opinion of our ferocity may be inflated, but if it keeps the
peace, who are we to complain?
And hey, Sir? Didn't you promise your buddies you'd lay off?
--
Angus Johnston
Barbara Mikkelson
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
> to point out that you feel someone is rude is to say that you are week ,
As in, dazed seven times?
Barbara "staying out of the clutches of the weakly whirled noose"
Mikkelson
--
Barbara Mikkelson | I have no desire to debate you on the premise
bmikkels@fas. | of lemmings on my computer. Besides, they're
harvard.edu | ferrets, not lemmings. - Jim Stewart
jaj...@lightspeed.net
>
> Bugger you. I'm a nice 'n' easy girl.
Hey, hey, HEY. I'm the antymologist 'round here. That should be just my
style.
>
> Barbara "either that or just for men" Mikkelson
Judy "with finesse" Johnson
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
sir does it matter?
Angus Johnston <ang...@mindspring.com> wrote
> And hey, Sir? Didn't you promise your buddies you'd lay off?
>
> --
> Angus Johnston
>
i have laid off with the "trolling" as it's called... but i will still
argue with anyone that will argue back that poeple should observe polite
responses in newsgroups... even in afg-s.
but it hasn't come to that...
robert "one man army" sims
sir does it matter?
Barbara Mikkelson <bmik...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote
> Bugger you. I'm a nice 'n' easy girl.
>
> Barbara "either that or just for men" Mikkelson
>
i don;t get it...
robert "i know they will run me in the ground for this bit of ignorance"
sims
sir does it matter?
Barbara Mikkelson <bmik...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote :
>
> > to point out that you feel someone is rude is to say that you are week
,
>
> As in, dazed seven times?
>
>
oops... sorry about that... i've been looking at hieroglyphs lately and
forget to stop spelling funetiklee when i get back to english...
robert "hope they believe that one" sims
mitcho
axel heyst wrote:
> Also, I found mitcho's call to arms extremely funny. Is there a story
> behind the reference to ARK?
Not really. It's just that if you crosspost a meaty article to ARK, the
thread will never ever die.
Mitcho
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mit...@netcom.com Urban Redneck of Goat Hill, California TR15 2BU
http://www.employees.org/~ozyman o http://www.urbanlegends.com
mitcho
Angus Johnston wrote:
> Go easy on the afg-sers, Mitcho. A few of them responded to Sir Does's
> call to trolling with Beavosity like the drek you quoted, but more told him
> to back off. The prevailing feeling over there seems to be "Inciting
> intergroup flamefests is punk, and besides, the afu folks will kick our
> ass."
Indeed you are correct. And I have enjoyed a pleasant private
correspondence[1] with a AFG-Sist who had a look at AFU and was
surprised by our outrageous reasonableness.
However, it has come to my attention that a person from AFG-S, one
"Longshot," I believe, has forged cancels of articles by me and by
Heather Gilmer. There's nothing I can do about that, except that I will
post in AFG-S the full story, so they realize they do have scum in their
midst. They seem to be nice enough folks, and I'm sure they won't like
learning that one of their own was forging cancels sort of in their
name.
Mitcho
[1] During which feminine undergarments were mentioned. Ah, the
Internet!
Harry MF Teasley
Lizz Holmans (di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> If you can't handle that, and you can't take the time to lurk for a
> while to see how the froup runs, how on earth do you have time to quilt
> (which is a beautiful art, only called a craft because women have
> usually done it)?
OK, I have to call Lizz on this: you got a cite for that bit of feminist
belief? Frankly, I don't buy it.
ObDisclaimer: I have been described as ultra-feminist, annoyingly so by
some of my less-enlightened cow orkers. That is not the point to my post.
The point is: I see it as false.
Basically, there are a lot of things called "craft", as a pejorative
opposed to "art", but I see no anti-feminist slant to this. Furniture
making, cabinetry, tile work, these are also referred to as "craft", and
they are ambisexual disciplines, possibly described as male-dominated,
although I have no data to back that assertion.
My formal college education having been at the Maryland Institute, College
of Art, I perceive that if anything, various disciplines are referred to
as "craft" if they typically did not involve formal education as provided
the Academy. "Crafts" are typically learned more as trades and through
internship. "The Arts" are those things studied in an institution of
higher learning. Note all lack of pejorative connotation in the
preceding sentences. This is an incredibly simplistic division I have
just made, but somewhat functional for introducing this conversation.
Much hash was made of "Art vs Craft: I Can't Tell You The Difference, But
I know It When I See It" when I was in school. So where do you come up
with this feminist slant?
Harry "and what's more, why?" Teasley
--
"it makes no evolutionary sense for an ectoparasite to go suddenly postal"
-JJ
Visit the AFU archives at www.urbanlegends.com
nancy g.
Harry MF Teasley wrote:
(regarding whether arts are called "crafts" when they are performed
by women, and whether this is a sexist use of the language):
> Basically, there are a lot of things called "craft", as a pejorative
> opposed to "art", but I see no anti-feminist slant to this. Furniture
> making, cabinetry, tile work, these are also referred to as "craft",
(snip)
> "Crafts" are typically learned more as trades and through
> internship. "The Arts" are those things studied in an institution of
> higher learning.
My understanding of the two terms is that a "craft" is that process in which
the end result is a useful object of some sort (a quilt, a table, etc.) and
an "art" is that which creates a product which may be a thing of beauty and a
joy forever, but is pretty damn useless, when looked at in practical terms.
This is a personal opinion, and YMMV.
Nancy "although quilting does seem to be one of the areas where they overlap" G.
Rick Tyler
On 9 May 1998 00:00:20 GMT, bmik...@fas.harvard.edu (Barbara
Mikkelson) wrote:
:sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
:
:>> Bugger you. I'm a nice 'n' easy girl.
:>>
:>> Barbara "either that or just for men" Mikkelson
:>
:> i don;t get it...
:
:I could 'splain it to you (with loving care, even), but what would be
:the sport in that?
:
:Barbara "miss clairol" Mikkelson
Barbara, that's just a bunch of breck, and you know it. Not as suave
as your usual style, either.
-- Rick "Still pantene to meet Emily in person" Tyler
-------------------------------------------------------
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar
only into the depths of ignominy." -- Patrick O'Brian
+ FAQ and lore at www.urbanlegends.com +
The Keener Clan
Don Whittington wrote:
>
> In article <6j0mh3$k...@panix2.panix.com>, he...@panix.com (Harry MF Teasley)
> wrote:
>
> > Indeed, where are quilts, and weather vanes, and streetlamps? Where does
> > utility begin to make Art Craft? What degree of knowledge or engineering
> > turns what might be just Craft into something sublimely Art?
> >
> > I'm sorry, but that distinction has been crushed in too many art student
> > conversations to hold water. One always falls back on "I can't define it,
> > but I know it when I see it".
> >
> > Harry "I've spent waaay too much time in my life in this conversation, but
> > it's been a while, I'll see if I still got it going on..." Teasley
>
> When someone is willing to sign the check to purchase your work, you may
> say it is well crafted.
>
> When someone is *unwilling* to sign the check, but signs it nevertheless,
> you may say it is art.
>
> Don "when they're just loaning you money you're a sponger" Whittington
We basketmakers have a web letter that comes out 2-3 times a week where
we all sort of "converse" and then it is sent via our e-mail address.
One really hot topic was the old "art vs craft" discussion and there was
never an agreement....if I can take reed from the rattan palm and weave
a market basket out of it, why am I not an artist? If I can pull kudzu
out of a tree and weave a basket, why am I not an artist? I feel
creative....really I do. But because my art/craft is functional, it is
called a craft.....and if it is a wildly woven bit that I can hang on
the wall with no function, other than to look nifty, then it is art? I
can*t find the common ground on this one and it drives me crazy thinking
about it, so I*ll just weave and sell.....and sell..and sell (and
before becoming a basketmaker I was a quilter and I certainly didn*t
consider that a craft...that is truly an art)
Kiki
Honolulu
does it matter?
Marc Reeve <cmr...@armory.com> wrote
> I'm not Susan, but I'll answer with the obvious ones from the part of
> your post that she quoted:
>
>
what i would give for a spell check on my reader...
Glen Quarnstrom
"sir does it matter?" <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>Susan Vaughn <windj...@mindspring.com> wrote
>> Ah! Another victiH^H^H^ graduate of the Callifornya scool
>> system.
>forgive me susan... what did i mispell that caused you to feel that my
>message wasn't important?
There's a lot more to good writing than spelling, troll. For
starters, look into capitalization and punctuation.
Oh, and you mipseeled "misspell."
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~glenq/
Barbara Mikkelson
sir does it matter? <bonem...@remove.easy.com> wrote:
>> Bugger you. I'm a nice 'n' easy girl.
>>
>> Barbara "either that or just for men" Mikkelson
>
> i don;t get it...
I could 'splain it to you (with loving care, even), but what would be
the sport in that?
Barbara "miss clairol" Mikkelson
--
Barbara Mikkelson | snopes and Barbara appeared as devoted as a
bmikkels@fas. | gorgeous blonde married to Chief-Know-It-All
harvard.edu | could be. - Lizz Holmans
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Reeve
In article <01bd79e5$126dcf60$7ef716cf@default>,
>> Ah! Another victiH^H^H^ graduate of the Callifornya scool
>> system.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>forgive me susan... what did i mispell that caused you to feel that my
>message wasn't important?
>
I'm not Susan, but I'll answer with the obvious ones from the part of
your post that she quoted:
You left the "h" out of "school" (as did she in her reply), and you used
"loose" when from the context, you probably meant "lose".
This sort of thing doesn't increase your perceived voracity.
Marc "i put a spell-check on you" Reeve
--
Marc Reeve: cAmE...@deepthOUGHt.armory.com <delete caps for real address>
Just another geek who would rather not do Windows.
Harry MF Teasley
nancy g. (nan...@tiac.net) wrote:
> My understanding of the two terms is that a "craft" is that process in which
> the end result is a useful object of some sort (a quilt, a table, etc.) and
> an "art" is that which creates a product which may be a thing of beauty and a
> joy forever, but is pretty damn useless, when looked at in practical terms.
> This is a personal opinion, and YMMV.
Of course. Which means that I'll be nice.
Unfortunately, there are problems with it, which you've already alluded
to. Where is a 1937 Bentley 4 1/4l on the Art vs Craft scale, or the
1946 Pininfarina, or the Flatiron Building, the Leatherman Tool or a
MackIntosh Willow Chair?
Indeed, where are quilts, and weather vanes, and streetlamps? Where does
utility begin to make Art Craft? What degree of knowledge or engineering
turns what might be just Craft into something sublimely Art?
I'm sorry, but that distinction has been crushed in too many art student
conversations to hold water. One always falls back on "I can't define it,
but I know it when I see it".
Harry "I've spent waaay too much time in my life in this conversation, but
it's been a while, I'll see if I still got it going on..." Teasley
Rick Tyler
On Fri, 08 May 1998 23:20:04 -0400, "nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net>
wrote:
:
:My understanding of the two terms is that a "craft" is that process in which
:the end result is a useful object of some sort (a quilt, a table, etc.) and
:an "art" is that which creates a product which may be a thing of beauty and a
:joy forever, but is pretty damn useless, when looked at in practical terms.
:
-- Rick "Neither a modernist floor wax or comfortable dessert topping"
Don Whittington
> Indeed, where are quilts, and weather vanes, and streetlamps? Where does
> utility begin to make Art Craft? What degree of knowledge or engineering
> turns what might be just Craft into something sublimely Art?
>
> I'm sorry, but that distinction has been crushed in too many art student
> conversations to hold water. One always falls back on "I can't define it,
> but I know it when I see it".
>
> Harry "I've spent waaay too much time in my life in this conversation, but
> it's been a while, I'll see if I still got it going on..." Teasley
When someone is willing to sign the check to purchase your work, you may
Lara
Lizz wrote:
>. We come
> from a place called TWIAVBP, wether we are American, subjects of
> UKoGBaNI, or Yurp.
Some even come from South Of The Equator. AVBP, indeed.
Lara
Lizz Holmans
Harry MF Teasley <he...@panix.com> writes
>Lizz Holmans (di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>> If you can't handle that, and you can't take the time to lurk for a
>> while to see how the froup runs, how on earth do you have time to quilt
>> (which is a beautiful art, only called a craft because women have
>> usually done it)?
>
>OK, I have to call Lizz on this: you got a cite for that bit of feminist
>belief?
Only years spent with quilters, and years studying art history.
> Frankly, I don't buy it.
Most people won't. They don't want to recompense the quilter for the
hours and the artistry involved.
Harry, I don't have cites for this. You got me. You beat me. You win.
Lizz 'Eppur stil muove' Holmans
--
Visit http://www.urbanlegends.com
Drew McMichael
Susan Vaughn (windj...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: Rick Tyler wrote:
: >>Barbara, that's just a bunch of breck, and you know it.
: >>Not as suave as your usual style, either.
: Me, I think all of Barbara's posts are head and shoulders
: above the mean. Nairy a bad one in the bunch.
Then tell two friends.
Andrew "and they'll tell two friends" McMichael
rcasady
does it matter? wrote:
> Marc Reeve <cmr...@armory.com> wrote
>
> > I'm not Susan, but I'll answer with the obvious ones from the part of
> > your post that she quoted:
> >
> >
>
> what i would give for a spell check on my reader...
I downloaded Netscape 4, didn't even have to pirate it. No challenge at
all, the Netscare company gives it away. The (Netscape 4) software I am
writing this on has a spelling checker, which I haven't tried. Think I'll
try it: I haven't yet been flamed for misspelling, but I have done it.
Casady
rcasady
rcasady wrote:
> does it matter? wrote:
>
> ( Snipped everything)
>
> Casady
Sir, does it matter?: I told Netscape 4 to send it to you and the group. The
group got it, but the copy to you bounced. If you don't like being publically
flamed, give the world a chance to do it in private.
Helpfully, I hope,
Casady
Angus Johnston
Lizz Holmans <di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk.DELETE> wrote:
> Harry MF Teasley <he...@panix.com> writes
> >Lizz Holmans (di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> >
> >> If you can't handle that, and you can't take the time to lurk for a
> >> while to see how the froup runs, how on earth do you have time to quilt
> >> (which is a beautiful art, only called a craft because women have
> >> usually done it)?
> >
> >OK, I have to call Lizz on this: you got a cite for that bit of feminist
> >belief?
>
> Only years spent with quilters, and years studying art history.
>
> > Frankly, I don't buy it.
>
> Most people won't. They don't want to recompense the quilter for the
> hours and the artistry involved.
Hold on a sec. Harry wasn't saying that quilting was craft and thus
unworthy and thus women's work and thus inartistic and thus
not-deserving-of-recompense. Nothing of the sort.
He was saying that the category, craft, that quilting fits into also
includes a lot of creative work traditionally done by men, that the
banishment of certain work from the "art" category crosses gender lines.
He's right, as far as I can tell.
> Harry, I don't have cites for this. You got me. You beat me. You win.
>
> Lizz 'Eppur stil muove' Holmans
I don't know what personal animus motivated this response, but it bugs me.
As a card-carrying member of the boys' auxilliary of Manhating Feminists
International, it sticks in my craw when someone makes a contentious
feminist claim, and when challenged to back it up, retreats to "Sigh. You
just don't get it." Seems like a cop-out to me, and doesn't reflect well on
the movement.
But what do I know? I'm just a guy.
--
Angus Johnston