Durian, the odiferous"King of Fruits"-Dangerous with alcohol?
Dan
While traveling in Malaysia recently, I had an opportunity to taste
the Durian, a football-sized, spiny fruit which is greatly prized as
a seasonal delicacy in Malaysia, Thailand, and other countries of
southeast Asia. The durian has a rather stinky smell and a taste
which most westerners find repugnant. Hotels and public
transportation in the cities often have 'no durians allowed' signs due
to the penetrating, sweet/stinky odor. They're typically sold at
outdoor markets and consumed with enthusiasm right on the
spot-outdoors- where the smell won't offend the neighbors..
I was told that this so-called king of fruits "smells like hell, but
tastes like heaven", and so I had my local friend there help me select
a nice one to try. The fruit has inner sections which resemble those
of a giant grapefruit - these are filled with a yellowish substance
with a soft, custard-like consistency. I found the taste to be like
that of a sweet, overripe to rotten peach with distinct garlic/onion
notes- sulfur compounds, undoubtedly. These sulfur compounds left a
persistent aftertaste and seemed to seep out of my pores the next day,
as if I'd eaten half of a football-sized onion.
Afterwards, I was quite anxious to wash away the lingering onion-like
taste with a couple of big bottles of the local beer. However, my
hostess warned me solemnly that the durian mustn't be mixed with
alcohol in any amount, as a fatal reaction may result. This is common
knowledge in the region, according to everyone I asked, and no one
doubted its veracity. However, despite her warning, I downed the
brews with no apparent ill effects.
So, is the durian + alcohol = death story a folk legend of SEAsia, or
is anyone aware of a toxicologic basis for this allegation? I
understand that some specialty stores in California occasionally have
durians for sale. Has anyone on the left coast heard of a warning
about durians and alcohol?
-Dan
Ulo Melton
Dan wrote:
[Unappetizing description of durian, and "durian and alcohol don't mix"
folklore. Dan courageously puts folklore to the test, lives to post.]
>So, is the durian + alcohol = death story a folk legend of SEAsia, or
>is anyone aware of a toxicologic basis for this allegation? I
>understand that some specialty stores in California occasionally have
>durians for sale. Has anyone on the left coast heard of a warning
>about durians and alcohol?
Curiously, scientific studies on this vital subject are scarce; in fact,
there seems to be exactly one article dealing with it:
Ogle, C. W. and Teh, Y. F. Durian and alcohol - a preliminary report.
Singapore Med J. 1969 Dec; 10(4): 288-290.
To make a long story short, the researchers force-fed durian and alcohol
to one group of mice, durian alone to one control group, and alcohol
alone to another control group. None of the mice suffered any ill
effects, except for temporarily distended abdomens in a few. The authors
conclude:
The results obtained from this preliminary investigation do not
support the belief that durian when taken with alcohol is dangerous.
[...]
The authors are personally acquainted with people who have taken
durian with alcohol in the form of brandy or whisky. The alcohol was
taken together with, or 1 to 6 hours after a durian meal. None of them
felt any ill effects, except for one person who experienced discomfort
from fullnesss of the abdomen and flatulence.
[...]
The dose of alcohol administered to the mice in this investigation was
sufficient to make the animals unsteady in gait. Also, the amount of
durian given was far in excess of that which could possibly be
consumed at one time by a single person. The amount of aril given to
each mouse, when calculated for a 70 Kg. adult, was equivalent to
approxiamtely 6 lbs. Even in spite of these excessive amounts, the
results were of a negative nature. The present findings therefore do
not indicate any basis for the belief that ill effects in the form of
toxicity or deaths, can occur when alcohol is taken with durian. The
possibility of durian potentiating the effects of alcohol also appears
remote. It should, however, be remembered that these deductions have
been made from experiments on small animals using purified alcohol.
Incidentally, the report notes that the belief about durian and alcohol
was recorded as long ago as 1923.
For what it's worth, I know of one mushroom (_Coprinus atramentarius_,
the Alcohol Inky Cap) that reacts badly with alcohol, though individual
susceptibility varies widely. I suppose there are other foods that don't
work with booze, but durian appears to be safe.
Ulo Melton
D.M. Procida
Dan <das...@nr.infi.net> wrote:
> While traveling in Malaysia recently, I had an opportunity to taste
> the Durian
I'm so pleased to read a first-hand durian account.
> my hostess warned me solemnly that the durian mustn't be mixed with
> alcohol in any amount, as a fatal reaction may result. This is common
> knowledge in the region, according to everyone I asked, and no one doubted
> its veracity. However, despite her warning, I downed the brews with no
> apparent ill effects.
You applied AFU-analysis brilliantly. Everyone knew it, so it couldn't
be true. Incidentally, Richard Feynman reported a similar anecdote about
aspirin and Coca-Cola; in front of his disapproving and cautioning
fellow-students he swallowed a couple of aspirin and drank a bottle of
Coke.
Such dangerous food'n'drink mixin' often meets with disapproval rather
than real concern for the mixer, because it (a) shows that you don't
take their warnings seriously and (b) stands to show that their warnings
shouldn't be taken seriously.
D.M. Procida
--
"...the so-called support act, The Awkward Moments, climbed onstage
unsmilingly, not even looking at the audience. They only played one
song: "Autobahn". In German. For twenty minutes. Then they swaggered
off, not once having acknowledged the crowd. Conceited arrogant swine."
Elgon
D.M. Procida wrote:
> Such dangerous food'n'drink mixin' often meets with disapproval rather
> than real concern for the mixer, because it (a) shows that you don't
> take their warnings seriously and (b) stands to show that their warnings
> shouldn't be taken seriously.
Try eating a dozen oysters and then drinking vodka or just about any
other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
gaz morris
Keith Willis
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:37:00 +0000, Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk>
wrote:
>Try eating a dozen oysters and then drinking vodka or just about any
>other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
>poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
I have noticed on a menu at a lo cal restaurant that under oysters it
notes something like "we advise alcohol is consumed sparingly with
this dish".
I mean, I have consumed some fairly distastful things whilst under the
affluence of incohol without problems (other than the hangover which
is being discussed in the thread down the hall). Why should oysters
in particular combine with C2H5OH to cause problems? Is there a
doctor in the house?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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When emailing me, please note that there is no 'text.' in my address.
Mike Holmans
>Try eating a dozen oysters and then drinking vodka or just about any
>other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
>poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
>
A couple of ounces of Beluga caviar and some nice vintage champagne
will make you feel even poorer.
Mike "not for nothing do they call skate cheap" Holmans
El Sig would prefer to talk about shoes, ships, and ceiling whacks
--
The exciting AFU FAQ, and many other things, can be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com
Brian Sefton
I too have consumed a fair amount of Durian while drinking Mekong Whisky
fortified with added grain alcohol. I suffered no ill effects, besides becoming
totally ill. Actaully I'm sure that was due to the drink rather than the Durian.
Ive eaten Durian and drank beer many times with no problem.
The rumor that I have heard about durian is that it gives men greater stamina in
bed, makes it easier to get an erection and generally increases potency. Similar
to the Mexican legends about eating birria (goat) or the Chinese beliefs about
gopgai (powdered gecko lizard).
Brian, like my durian cologne? Sefton
Stew Woolverton
Keith Willis wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:37:00 +0000, Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >Try eating a dozen oysters and then drinking vodka or just about any
> >other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
> >poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
>
> I have noticed on a menu at a lo cal restaurant that under oysters it
> notes something like "we advise alcohol is consumed sparingly with
> this dish".
>
> I mean, I have consumed some fairly distastful things whilst under the
> affluence of incohol without problems (other than the hangover which
> is being discussed in the thread down the hall). Why should oysters
> in particular combine with C2H5OH to cause problems? Is there a
> doctor in the house?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The above message reflects my own views, not those of Hewlett Packard.
> When emailing me, please note that there is no 'text.' in my address.
Maybe the operative term is "a dozen oysters?"
Having had about half a dozen ersters rockerfeller with a bottle of red (!)
wine last Saturday nite with my Missus, and having been in good enough
condition to run 6 blocks afterwards while piggybacking my 3 year old son
(trying to catch a ferry), and not lose a single bit of dinner, I think it
may have more to do with mental rather than gastric conditioning.
My stomach also survived the aroma of several full diapers produced by the 3
year old's baby brother later that evening, as well as both their insistence
on using it (my stomach) as a trampoline.
But ahah! you say. Red wine isn't hard liquor. True, but it went with the
rest of dinner better than the 15 year old scotch did....
Having spent much time in the past in Mexico eating large quantities of
seafood of various kinds in conjunction with far too much tequila (both clear
and "gold" varieties), and experiencing nothing worse than bad hangovers
(with the exception of one case of "red tide poisoning"), I believe it is
just a matter of what you are used to putting into your stomach. My
mother-in-law gags at the thought of sushi; other people I have met have had
negative reactions to food presented to them from outside of their cultures
("what's this?" etc.).
Regurgitatingly yours,
Stew Woolverton - "I'm not allowed to have opinions any more; my mum said the
last one I had got too big, and had too be put down."
Eric Hocking
Elgon wrote:
>
> D.M. Procida wrote:
> > Such dangerous food'n'drink mixin' often meets with disapproval rather
> > than real concern for the mixer, because it (a) shows that you don't
> > take their warnings seriously and (b) stands to show that their warnings
> > shouldn't be taken seriously.
>
> other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
> poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
>
Having done both[1] with no ill effects somehow I doubt this.
But I've found that my hangovers are non-existent or of less ferocity
now that I don't smoke while drinking.[2]
--
Eric Hocking "A closed mouth gathers no feet."
Remove "nospam." from address to email.
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ehocking/
[1] Durian and beer/whisky in Malaysia and Oysters beer/Guinness/vodka
sodas only 10 days ago.
[2] Double-blind test[3] was performed over the weekend.
[3] and there was nothing scientific about it, quite agricultural
actually.
Mike Czaplinski
> >other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
> >poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
> >
> will make you feel even poorer.
And never EVER try to 'coat' your stomach for an all-night drinking
binge with Sushi...
Mike "Looks the same swimming in both directions" Czaplinski
ekim.czaplinski<at>washingtoncd.rcn.moc
Dan
>The rumor that I have heard about durian is that it gives men greater stamina in
>bed, makes it easier to get an erection and generally increases potency.
>>
Yes, my hostess in Kuala Lumpur mentioned this 'side effect' of the
durian. Unfortunately, she did not share this traveler's curiosity
about nailing down the veracity of this particular chapter of durian
folklore.
When I inquired about the durian/alcohol interaction, she indicated
that the alleged problem stems from the fact that both durian and
alcoholic beverages are "heat-producing" foods from the Chinese
perspective. If one loads up on too much of a "heat-producing" good
thing, something's gotta give.
-Dan "Why, yes, as a matter of fact I do have a durian in my pocket"H.
Steve Caskey
Dan <das...@nr.infi.net> wrote:
> -Dan "Why, yes, as a matter of fact I do have a durian in my pocket"H.
Well, that explains the smell.
Steve "come back, miss!" Caskey
--
Just another mindless public servant at the Ministry of Education
"ObSadBeerFact: Bottled Budweiser has become very popular amongst
London yuppies." -- mitcho
See the alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive at http://www.urbanlegends.com
Mike Holmans
Stew Woolverton <swool...@rescan.com> felt like saying:
>Keith Willis wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:37:00 +0000, Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Try eating a dozen oysters and then drinking vodka or just about any
>> >other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
>> >poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
>
>
>Having had about half a dozen ersters rockerfeller with a bottle of red
>may have more to do with mental rather than gastric conditioning.
>
Oysters Rockefeller I've not eaten (I've tended to order them Mornay or
Kilpatrick), but Joy of Cooking says it involves cooking them. Shirley
all the folklore relating to oyster consumption involves them being
alive until mere seconds before swallowing them, and possibly later.
Mike "pearls of wisdom" Holmans
El Sig may think the world is his oyster, but that doesn't mean he'll
swallow everything
The exciting AFU FAQ, and many other things, may be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com
Gordon Baldwin
In article <v5d6mIAS...@jackalope.demon.co.uk>,
Mike Holmans <pos...@jackalope.demon.co.uk.DELETE> wrote:
>Stew Woolverton <swool...@rescan.com> felt like saying:
>>Keith Willis wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:37:00 +0000, Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Try eating a dozen oysters and then drinking vodka or just about any
>>> >other hard spirit. I can more or less guarantee you'll be feeling pretty
>>> >poor a few hours later. I have not tried the AFU test on it though.
I don't buy it. I eat lots of raw oysters, usually with beer, but often
with a hard alcoholic drink and I have never had a problem. I will
usually shuck a couple dozen, while eating many, and have a drink at
hand to wash them down.
It may be mental. I know many people that will not touch raw oysters
(suprising isn't it?) or if they do they drink lots of something to wash
it down. It is an easy way to over imbibe. That would cause you to feel
pretty poor in a few hours.
Gordon "Always share with your spouse" Baldwin
--
Gordon Baldwin gba...@halcyon.com
Olympia Washington http://www.halcyon.com/gordon
Key fingerprint = BD B5 D6 83 01 64 9C 1A EB 3D BD 29 09 7B EA FD
Eric Hocking
Mike Holmans wrote:
> Shirley
> all the folklore relating to oyster consumption involves them being
> alive until mere seconds before swallowing them, and possibly later.
To which my refute still stands. 2 doz *live* oysters[1] between 4
people, majority consumed by only two of us. Washed down with Guinness
and vodka sodas.
No harm don..*& #@:(*%:()&_#@. . . . . .
--
Eric Hocking "A closed mouth gathers no feet."
:: Melbourne, Australia ::
Remove "nospam." from address to email.
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ehocking/
[1] The only way to eat oysters, right Edward?
C
Dan wrote in message <350c8b87...@news.nr.infi.net>...
>
>While traveling in Malaysia recently, I had an opportunity to taste
>the Durian .....
>
>Afterwards, I was quite anxious to wash away the lingering onion-like
>taste with a couple of big bottles of the local beer. However, my
>hostess warned me solemnly that the durian mustn't be mixed with
>alcohol in any amount, as a fatal reaction may result. This is common
>knowledge in the region, according to everyone I asked, and no one
>doubted its veracity. However, despite her warning, I downed the
>brews with no apparent ill effects.
>
>So, is the durian + alcohol = death story a folk legend of SEAsia, or
>is anyone aware of a toxicologic basis for this allegation? I
>understand that some specialty stores in California occasionally have
>durians for sale. Has anyone on the left coast heard of a warning
>about durians and alcohol?
I was warned about the combination- and not to eat durian with any sugary or
"hot" foods. In this case, my advisers meant extremely "Yang" foods or
drinks, of which beer is one.
The worry derives from the idea in Chinese medicine that too much Yang food
will overheat the blood and cause manifestations such as high fever and
fits.
I survived it OK.
BTW, durian is available, in season (June -Sept), here in the UK wherever
there are large Chinese communities. Ask advice on which too buy as they
ripen and change flavour very fast in -12 hours or so - and that may account
for the overripe taste. The flavour should be sweet, delicate, and unlike
anything else. The texture is of firm set custard, and the smell is no
guide to the taste.
In SE Asia you can buy durian flavour ice cream.
Start saving: They cost about £14.00 for a medium one - serves 8.
Chris Smith
Dan wrote in message <350c8b87...@news.nr.infi.net>...
>
>While traveling in Malaysia recently, I had an opportunity to taste
>the Durian .....
>
>Afterwards, I was quite anxious to wash away the lingering onion-like
>taste with a couple of big bottles of the local beer. However, my
>hostess warned me solemnly that the durian mustn't be mixed with
>alcohol in any amount, as a fatal reaction may result. This is common
>knowledge in the region, according to everyone I asked, and no one
>doubted its veracity. However, despite her warning, I downed the
>brews with no apparent ill effects.
>
>So, is the durian + alcohol = death story a folk legend of SEAsia, or
>is anyone aware of a toxicologic basis for this allegation? I
>understand that some specialty stores in California occasionally have
>durians for sale. Has anyone on the left coast heard of a warning
>about durians and alcohol?
I was warned about the combination- and not to eat durian with any sugary or
"hot" foods. In this case, my advisers meant extremely "Yang" foods or
drinks, of which beer is one.
The worry derives from the idea in Chinese medicine that too much Yang food
will overheat the blood and cause manifestations such as high fever and
fits.
I survived it OK.
BTW, durian is available, in season (June -Sept), here in the UK wherever
there are large Chinese communities. Ask advice on which to buy as they
ripen and change flavour very fast in -12 hours or so - and that may account
for the overripe taste. The flavour should be sweet, delicate, and unlike
anything else. The texture is of firm set custard, and the smell is no
guide to the taste.
In SE Asia you can buy durian flavour ice cream.
Start saving: They cost about £14.00 for a medium one - serves 8.
--
Chris Smith
"Perseverance Furthers"
girl guitarist libertine
In article <uKoHc7q...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>,
You can also get durian ice cream in some asian markets in
the San Francisco area. An ex of mine bought some once.
It smelled like a rotting corpse. I didn't try it. He said
it wasn't bad, but it sat in the freezer, unfinished, for
months before I got sick of looking at it and threw it out.
You can get several interesting flavors of ice cream in my
local asian supermarket. I've seen not only durian, but
purple yam, taro, and corn & cheese flavors (not to mention
mango, lychee, and other fruits less frightening to the
average American). I don't even want to think about corn &
cheese ice cream.
m
experiencing a sudden craving for sweet bean paste
--
it's got a good beat and you can angst to it http://www.crl.com/~merde
Dwight Hall
Chris Smith wrote:
>
> Dan wrote in message <350c8b87...@news.nr.infi.net>...
> >
> >While traveling in Malaysia recently, I had an opportunity to taste
> >the Durian .....
> >
> >Afterwards, I was quite anxious to wash away the lingering onion-like
> >taste with a couple of big bottles of the local beer. However, my
> >hostess warned me solemnly that the durian mustn't be mixed with
> >alcohol in any amount, as a fatal reaction may result. This is common
> >knowledge in the region, according to everyone I asked, and no one
> >doubted its veracity. However, despite her warning, I downed the
> >brews with no apparent ill effects.
> >
Jumping in kinda late here, but isn't this durian thing a transferrence
and reversal of the story of the Caribbean fruit ackee (sp??), which
_must_ be consumed with alcohol in order to be non-toxic? And didn't
Agatha Christie or some such have a murder mystery in which everyone was
served the fruit as dessert but only the one non-drinker was killed?
I bet snopes knows.