Another kick at the can...pool pee
rham...@fox.nstn.ca
Ok, I've read the faq numerous times, and have waited almost three
years to repost after lurking here on the sidelines.. And yes, there
has probably been all kinds of discussion by chemists about this that
I have missed. Here goes:
The faq says:
that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
color when someone pees in the pool is false.
I've searched DejaNews and found little about this old thread, as it
doesn't seem to go back any further then 9 months.
Almost three years ago I posted the following info:
From "Orson Welles- A Biography by Barbara Leaming ISBN 0-14-009620-5
pages 152-155
briefly, Orson talks about his phobia about swimming pools, and how he
and screenwriter Charles MacArthur, husband of Helen Hayes found a
chemist who had developed a "clear, colorless liquid , which if put in
the pool immediately detected urine when anybody would pee."
They tried it out, and sure enough "raspberry-colored clouds" appeared
in the pool.
Eventually, Orson's wife at the time, Virginia, and Charles' wife
Helen Hayes made them stop putting the chemical in the pool.
This supposedly occurred in 1937 in Sneden's Landing on the Hudson
River.
Now something like this anecdote must possibly show up in biographies
or interviews with Helen Hayes. I haven't found any yet, but would
like to track it down. Also, if anyone can fill me in on the missed
discussions regarding the chemical possibilities or impossibilities, I
would be grateful.
Smart-aleck comments welcomed as well, but be forewarned that the
image of Orson in a Speedo has already been used.
Rick "I've looked at clouds from both sides now" Hamilton
Walter Eric Johnson
rham...@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
: The faq says:
: that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
: color when someone pees in the pool is false.
Why don't you just run an electric fence through the pool?
Eric Johnson
Ragnar
We really need a chemist to chime in here, but I know that there are
various chemicals that are used to check the PH level (acidity) of fluids.
One that I played with in college chem class was Methylene Blue, which
turned a liquid blue (brightness depended upon PH). Great gag is to toss
some in a soda or cup of coffee and watch the fun when the victim goes to
the bathroom. Urine will turn bright blue and scare the beejesus out of
you. NOTE: Don't do that to people as Meth Blue isn't for human use.
Meth also comes in Red, Yellow, and Orange for different PH ranges.
You could use Meth or similar chemicals, but I don't know which one
specifically. I would think a call to the local pool supplier would answer
the question real fast.
Ragnar
rham...@fox.nstn.ca wrote in article <5ename$c...@news.istar.ca>...
> Ok, I've read the faq numerous times, and have waited almost three
> years to repost after lurking here on the sidelines.. And yes, there
> has probably been all kinds of discussion by chemists about this that
> I have missed. Here goes:
>
> The faq says:
> that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
> color when someone pees in the pool is false.
>
Andrew Rogers
rham...@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
> The faq says:
> that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
> color when someone pees in the pool is false.
> briefly, Orson talks about his phobia about swimming pools, and how he
> and screenwriter Charles MacArthur, husband of Helen Hayes found a
> chemist who had developed a "clear, colorless liquid , which if put in
> the pool immediately detected urine when anybody would pee."
Anyone who passed high-school chemistry knows that such chemicals
exist. The question is whether or not any of these chemicals can be
used in concentrations high enough to detect urine without causing
unwanted side effects (eye or skin irritations, etc.) in people using
the pool.
Andrew
Guy Daugherty
> > The faq says:
> > that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
> > color when someone pees in the pool is false.
>
oops.
> exist. The question is whether or not any of these chemicals can be
> used in concentrations high enough to detect urine without causing
> unwanted side effects (eye or skin irritations, etc.) in people using
> the pool.
So that, not only showing the alarum when some leaker commits
the act, but it would tend to keep the drizzling cretins out to begin
with.
Guy "maybe we need something like that for this NG" Daugherty.
rham...@fox.nstn.ca
On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:20:58 -0500, Andrew Rogers <rog...@hi.com>
wrote:
>> chemist who had developed a "clear, colorless liquid , which if put in
>> the pool immediately detected urine when anybody would pee."
>
>Anyone who passed high-school chemistry knows that such chemicals
>exist.
Ok....so I passed chemistry and understand how ph etc can be
detected, and how chemicals can indicate the presence of other
chemicals... so far so good
The question is whether or not any of these chemicals can be
>used in concentrations high enough to detect urine without causing
>unwanted side effects (eye or skin irritations, etc.) in people using
>the pool.
supposedly the reason such an agent does not exist...and this almost
a UL based on some of the unsubstantiated rumors from AFU is that a
chemical in a strong enough concentration in a swimming pool to cause
color changes inthe pool would supposedly blind you or strip the skin
off you...this may be the first case of AFU actually creating a UL???
So... my question is.... is there such a chemical which can be placed
in the pool in such high concentrations that peeing in the pool would
change colour, without the swimmer losing his skin? Off the top of
my head , as someone who reacts violently to the chlorine in the
pools, I can't imagine a chemical less stringent than chlorine, which
seems to be the norm in pools.
Thanks for the advice
>Andrew
Rick "I've looked at raspberry-colored clouds from both sides now"
Hamilton
rham...@fox.nstn.ca
On 23 Feb 1997 10:10:24 GMT, wej...@mulder.tamu.edu (Walter Eric
Johnson) wrote:
>rham...@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
>: The faq says:
>: that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
>: color when someone pees in the pool is false.
>
>Why don't you just run an electric fence through the pool?
>
>Eric John
Wrong thread... although it might be interesting.... you wouldn't need
the chemical to get rid of people peeing in your pool
Suzanne Demitrio
>So... my question is.... is there such a chemical which can be placed
>in the pool in such high concentrations that peeing in the pool would
>change colour, without the swimmer losing his skin? Off the top of
>my head , as someone who reacts violently to the chlorine in the
>pools, I can't imagine a chemical less stringent than chlorine, which
>seems to be the norm in pools.
With the caveat that I haven't done any chemistry since high school ....
Aren't swimming pools somewhat acidic (very weak solution of hydrochloric
acid)? And isn't urine acidic (uric acid)? So you'd be looking for a
fairly subtle difference in pH (if any) between the urine and the water
it's diffusing into? In an outdoor swimming pool? I doubt that the pH
is perfectly constant or perfectly uniform throughout the pool to begin
with -- water flows in and out of the filters, evaporates faster at the
sunny end, etc. ....
Also who cares? You've got bugs and birdshit dropping into a pool, too;
a quarter-cup of accidental urine in thousands of gallons of treated
water is not going to do you any harm.
Suzanne "learned to swim at the NJ shore" Demitrio
RFerrie
Suzanne Demitrio wrote:
>
> In article <5eqq80$c...@news.istar.ca>, <rham...@fox.nstn.ca> wrote:
>
> >So... my question is.... is there such a chemical which can be placed
> >in the pool in such high concentrations that peeing in the pool would
> >change colour, without the swimmer losing his skin? Off the top of
> >my head , as someone who reacts violently to the chlorine in the
> >pools, I can't imagine a chemical less stringent than chlorine, which
> >seems to be the norm in pools.
>
OK, I have relatives in the pool biz who state absolutely that there is
NO product available that visually detects urine. While none of them
knows whether there are chemicals which *can* detect urine, it is pure
fact that no chemicals are sold for the purpose of detecting urine in a
pool.
First off, what's the point? As someone else pointed out, there's plenty
of crud in a pool already, from toe jam to bird poop. All a visual "look!
He peed!" chemical would do is freak out the other people in the pool,
who would then demand some sort of massive disinfection take place.
Second, one of my relatives is also a former lifeguard. He says that it
was common practice to tell of the "blue pee detector" when starting
kiddie swimming lessons. This would be 35 some years ago, FWIW.
So are we now debating the chemical aspect of "is it possible for a
chemical to detect urine, and if so, would it be useful at concentrations
low enough to not damage the swimmers", or "does such a product exist"?
If the latter, NO, if the former, well, um, I plead lack of chemistry
knowledge.
Renee (blue liquid-free)
Ragnar
Great sign. I see ample opporunity for a lawsuit. "Gee, I can't read
English", etc...
Ragnar, LOL
eq...@mindspring.com wrote in article
<3312fa9b...@news.mindspring.com>...
> On 23 Feb 1997 10:10:24 GMT, wej...@mulder.tamu.edu (Walter Eric
> Johnson) wrote:
>
> >rham...@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
> >: The faq says:
> >: that the UL about a chemical added to pool water which turns a bright
> >: color when someone pees in the pool is false.
> >
> >Why don't you just run an electric fence through the pool?
>
> At an apartment complex in Augusta, GA, the management posted a sign
> at the pool which reads:
>
> WARNING
>
> POOL ELECTRIFIED WHEN
> NOT IN USE
>
> Ample incentive to keep the residents out of the pool after hours?
>
Simon Slavin
In article <3312fa9b...@news.mindspring.com>,
eq...@mindspring.com wrote:
> At an apartment complex in Augusta, GA, the management posted a sign
> at the pool which reads:
>
> WARNING
>
> POOL ELECTRIFIED WHEN
> NOT IN USE
So when someone enters the water in an attempt to use the pool,
is the electricity automatically turned-off ? What they mean
is
POOL ELECTRIFIED WHEN WE FEEL LIKE IT
a sign on a par with
I SHOOT PEOPLE WHEN THEY LET ME
and
I DRIVE OVER PEOPLE WHO STEP OUT IN FRONT OF ME
Hmm. I think I'll copywrite some of these.
Simon.
--
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | "While AFU as a whole is of the firm
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | opinion that water is indeed wet at
Check email address for spam-guard. | least some of the time ..."
Junk email not welcome at this site. | -- Barbara Mikkelson
djd
>knowledge.
>
>Renee (blue liquid-free)
As a former life guard and current pool owner I feel compelled to
respond. The "blue pee detector" is true. We always told our child
students that we could tell (and everybody else could too) if they
pee'd in the pool. Hopefully this was deterrent enough although not
always. That determined look on a 3 year old standing alone by the
steps is always a give away. As far as a chemical to actually detect
piss in a pool, one does not exist. Heck, on a hot sunny summer day
here in Texas when doing outside chores and rather than going inside, I
frequently jump in the pool with my shorts on just to TAKE a piss!!
Duane "Hey, it's only a Baby Ruth bar!" Dubay
djd...@ix.netcom.com
Justin C. Merritt
On 24 Feb 1997, RFerrie wrote:
> So are we now debating the chemical aspect of "is it possible for a
> chemical to detect urine, and if so, would it be useful at concentrations
> low enough to not damage the swimmers", or "does such a product exist"?
From chem lab experience, I know that pH indicators are VERY
concentrated and a little goes a long way. Quantitatively, I'd say that
1mL of indicator (approx. one drop) is adequate to color about 5L of
solution. This would yield a faint coloring of the solution, but enough to be
detectable. Okay, now consider a 25,000 gallon pool. Converting to
metric, that's about 95,000 liters. Dividing by five yields 19,000
milliliters of indicator, or 19L. That means that to treat the pool would
require approximately FIVE GALLONS of pH indicator. Economically, no one
would bother; indicators are not cheap. A 50mL bottle of indicator may
cost $5-10. A 5 gallon jug of the stuff would probably
set you back well over $1500!! All that just to catch a kid whizzing in
your pool?? Yeah right. I say we let this one die. Change the
FAQ to read:
F. Most pool owners are willing to spend $1500 to catch kids who urinate
in their pool.
More proof: To my knowledge, there are no indicators that are
clear at neutral pH, while colored at acidic levels. Pools are maintained
in the 6.5-7.5 range (and may have to be even closer to 7 than that).
Phenolphthalein is a very common indicator for titrations, but it is clear
in acid, and becomes a hot pink color in basic conditions. Adding this to
a pool would give the pool a very light pink color, and then it
would actually turn clear when the kid did his business. Who wants to
swim in pink water?
Some of the other available indicators have been mentioned, such
as the Methyl series (blue, red, etc...) However, I believe that all of
these have two colored states (for instance, blue in acid, green in
base). None of them have a clear state. Using these would give the pool
a distinct color, and may cause guests to assume you have an algae
problem.
Note that the final concentration of the indicator would only be
0.02% by volume. Irritation or side effects are unlikely. The chlorine
is in much higher concentration, and would tend to mask any
effects by the indicator.
To summarize: it is chemically possibly to detect the pH of an
entire pool. It would be economically unfeasible to do so, and the color
of the pool would be affected under normal circumstances.
I'd say that these factors alone would keep any pool supply manufacturers
from bothering.
+=======================+=======================+========================+
Justin C. Merritt
Junior
Chemical Engineering
Mississippi State University
jc...@ra.msstate.edu
Ewan Kirk
On 24 Feb 1997 01:17:52 GMT, rham...@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:20:58 -0500, Andrew Rogers <rog...@hi.com>
>wrote:
>
>So... my question is.... is there such a chemical which can be placed
>in the pool in such high concentrations that peeing in the pool would
>change colour, without the swimmer losing his skin?
I'm sure it is but there's a good reason why nobody in their right
mind would use it.
Let's say that you're a public pool owner. You put this chemical in
the pool. About five minutes after you open your pool on the first
day somebody pees in the pool (let's face it, we've all done it).
So now everybody jumps out of the pool saying "bleeeughghg, your pool
is full of pee and is also coloured a disgusting shade of blue. If
you think I'm going in that pool, you've got another think coming
matey" and buggers off somewhere else. You've now got to dump the
bazillion gallons of water in your olympic sized swimming pool, clean
it, fill it up again before you can have any more customers.
It's just about as bad with a private pool.
"Since it's such a lovely evening, why don't we have a drink round the
pool", "Oh, you mean the piss infested one out there?"
Ewan "it's difficult to take the piss" Kirk.
--E.
Remove the {remove} in address for email
John Schmitt
In article <3315debd...@news.demon.co.uk>, ewan@{remove}kirk.demon.co.uk
(Ewan Kirk) writes:
>Let's say that you're a public pool owner. You put this chemical in
>the pool. About five minutes after you open your pool on the first
>day somebody pees in the pool (let's face it, we've all done it).
I suppose that I was the only kid in school who did it from the poolside. My
ex-lifeguard friends tell me that they also regularly found "floaters" bobbing
on the water.
John "I turn red when I'm pissed" Schmitt
If you can think of a disclaimer, it applies.
Alias Schmitt and John; And in all the flames and cranks they read, they never
killfiled anyone.
Dave Farber
About five minutes after you open your pool on the first
>day somebody pees in the pool (let's face it, we've all done
it).
C'mon now! We don't swim in your toilet...
Ngener
<<>fact that no chemicals are sold for the purpose of detecting urine in
a
>pool.
>
>First off, what's the point? As someone else pointed out, there's
plenty
>of crud in a pool already, from toe jam to bird poop. All a visual
"look!
>He peed!" chemical would do is freak out the other people in the pool,
>who would then demand some sort of massive disinfection take place.
>
Pools are heavily chlorinated - that *is* the massive disinfection. But
my DH, a civil engineer-type who has specialized in water type stuff (as
well as designing sewage treatment plants) says that kiddie pools are
chlorinated at a much higher level than 'adult' pools, given the higher
level of various bodily fluids that children supposedly expel into the
water.
Naomi - Happiness is a byproduct, not a target
Leo G. Simonetta
Ngener wrote:
SNIP
> Pools are heavily chlorinated - that *is* the massive disinfection. But
> my DH, a civil engineer-type who has specialized in water type stuff (as
> well as designing sewage treatment plants) says that kiddie pools are
> chlorinated at a much higher level than 'adult' pools, given the higher
> level of various bodily fluids that children supposedly expel into the
> water.
As a former lifeguard I recall reading several articles where pools
were actually over-chlorinated to the point where contact dermatitis
became common among frequent swimmers. Another story I remember
reading noted that one pool was so over-chlorinated that it actually
allegedly stripped enamel from the teeth of several individuals.
--
Leo G. Simonetta
ARC...@LANGATE.GSU.EDU My opinions. Mine! All mine!
Tony Sweeney
Ngener wrote:
: Pools are heavily chlorinated - that *is* the massive disinfection.
But
: my DH, a civil engineer-type who has specialized in water type stuff
(as
: well as designing sewage treatment plants) says that kiddie pools are
: chlorinated at a much higher level than 'adult' pools, given the
higher
: level of various bodily fluids that children supposedly expel into the
: water.
Kiddie pools are more heavily chlorinated because they are typically
much warmer than the regular pool, and the quantities of chemicals
added is a direct function of the temperature you run it at. Urine
is sterile in any case, so were it not for the temperature difference,
the 'piddling pool' wouldn't need any more chlorine than the adult
one.
Tony.
Cindy Kandolf
Tony Sweeney <swe...@informix.com> writes:
| Kiddie pools are more heavily chlorinated because they are typically
| much warmer than the regular pool, and the quantities of chemicals
| added is a direct function of the temperature you run it at. Urine
| is sterile in any case, so were it not for the temperature difference,
| the 'piddling pool' wouldn't need any more chlorine than the adult
| one.
Urine is sterile in the sense that it contains no germs (unless
there's a urinary tract infection) when it leaves the body. But after
leaving the body, it's great food for many kinds of germs that could
be present in the air or water. (Gross story alert: when i was
pregnant the urine test at the doctor's office would often come out
positive for UTI. But when a more complex test was taken, it was
negative. The reason was actually very simple: i had moved in
mid-pregnancy and kept going to the same doctor, which meant forty
minutes or so on the bus to get there. The urine sample would
typically be an hour old when i got to the office. When the nurse
suggested i bring the empty container and provide a "fresh" sample
instead, the false negatives stopped.) So a, erm, higher
concentration of urine in the kiddie pool could certainly be part of
the reason for needing more disinfectant. Of course, as you said, the
higher temperature is definitely important, since the kinds of germs
that prey on people like it warm.
I wonder - could the fact that the kiddie pool is so shallow have an
effect here? Higher surface area to volume ratio could be important
if the problem is bacteria in the air...
- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: ci...@nvg.ntnu.no flodhome: Trondheim, Norway
flodweb: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/
Guy Daugherty
> As a former lifeguard I recall reading several articles where pools
> were actually over-chlorinated to the point where contact dermatitis
> became common among frequent swimmers. Another story I remember
> reading noted that one pool was so over-chlorinated that it actually
> allegedly stripped enamel from the teeth of several individuals.
No, that was a pool that was under-fluoridated.
Guy "like flourescent lights?" Daugherty.
Sean Stockard
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In article <19970311204...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> Ngener <nge...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Pools are heavily chlorinated - that *is* the massive disinfection. But
> >my DH, a civil engineer-type who has specialized in water type stuff (as
> >well as designing sewage treatment plants) says that kiddie pools are
> >chlorinated at a much higher level than 'adult' pools, given the higher
> >level of various bodily fluids that children supposedly expel into the
> >water.
> >
>
I worked as a lifeguard and Pool manager for 5 years at a public pool.
There is no such chemical that turns the water a different color when
someone "relieves themselves" in the pool. If there were such a
chemical, every public pool in the nation would be a dark shade of
purple or pink.
Anyone who says they have never "went" in a swimming pool is either a
lier or has never been in a pool.
As far as the kiddie pools having a higher chlorine concentration, this
is correct. Most states mandate the these pools be set up on their own
filtration systems for the reasons previously mentioned.
But like I said, I hate coming in, in the middle of a conversation.
William F. Hagen
Cindy Kandolf wrote:
> > I wonder - could the fact that the kiddie pool is so shallow have an
> effect here? Higher surface area to volume ratio could be important
> if the problem is bacteria in the air...
>
temperature and the greater the surface area, the faster the rate. This
is why chlorine must be added frequently to pools.
2. As for stripping the enamel off teeth, I think this must be bogus.
(a) if you were to drink the water in a load of "hot whites" in your
laundry, with bleach, etc, you'd get ill, but your teeth would be OK.
Similar concentrations in a pool would bleach hair and swimsuits and
skin long before teeth were effected.
(b) Given the toughness of tooth enamel, you'd dissolve the pool lining
and pumps, filters, etc, long before tooth enamel. Very strong chlorine
might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling rough,
much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <332888...@owt.com>, Sean Stockard <sst...@owt.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Anyone who says they have never "went" in a swimming pool is either a
> lier or has never been in a pool.
Well then, I guess I am a liar.
Trudi "bashful kidneys, but at least they haven't been stolen" Marrapodi
Trudi
www...@spamdagger.frontiernet.net
Address modified to prevent spam. You can figure it out.
Lon Stowell
BUT IF YOU !@#$!@#$ MUST COME IN IN THE MIDDLE OF A FREAKIN
CONVERSATION, KINDLY TRIM THE OLD POSTING ACCURATELY INSTEAD
OF SCREWING IT UP SO IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING
THAT THEY DID NOT.
We now return you to your normal volume level, thanking you
in advance for your care in the future, etc. etc.
Simon Slavin
In article <5g7lak$p...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com>,
lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) wrote:
> In article <19970311204...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> Ngener <nge...@aol.com> wrote:
> >[snip] says that kiddie pools are
> >chlorinated at a much higher level than 'adult' pools, given the higher
> >level of various bodily fluids that children supposedly expel into the
> >water.
>
> Could it be that this is the real reason why you never find
> beer sales allowed at adult pools?
Alan Coren wrote in _Punch_ about a noxious pair of British people
on holiday in Italy. They use their lack of language-skills and
general obtuseness to get their way everywhere. It contained the
memorable passage (probably mis-remembered)
"Pity the pool's so full -- I fancied a dip. Never mind, I think
I'll go in anyway. God, I'm bursting. Must be the Vino.
Oh, t hat's nice: they're all off home."
Simon.
--
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | "Turn up your soundcard ...
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | and let's dance."
Check email address for spam-guard. | Sassy, in http://
Junk email not welcome at this site. | bbs.annex.com/relayer/pink.htm
Andy Schenck
Sean Stockard <sst...@owt.com> writes:
> I worked as a lifeguard and Pool manager for 5 years at a public pool.
> There is no such chemical that turns the water a different color when
> someone "relieves themselves" in the pool. If there were such a
> chemical, every public pool in the nation would be a dark shade of
> purple or pink.
When I worked as a lifeguard/swimming instructor, this was what we'd
tell the kids to scare them in an attempt to prevent them from peeing
in the water as much.
"If you go pee, the water will turn purple and everyone will laugh at
you."
Unfortunately, it didn't work very well, and yes, kiddie pools have a
higher concentration of chlorine for this reason.
Andy
--
Andy Schenck, System Administrator Oregon Public Networking
a...@dogbert.efn.org in...@efn.org
http://dogbert.efn.org http://www.efn.org
Ngener
Tony Sweeney wrote:
<<Kiddie pools are more heavily chlorinated because they are typically
much warmer than the regular pool, and the quantities of chemicals
added is a direct function of the temperature you run it at. Urine
is sterile in any case, so were it not for the temperature difference,
the 'piddling pool' wouldn't need any more chlorine than the adult
one.>>
I'm currently reading "The Coming Plague" by Laurie Garrett (who won a
1996 Pulitzer for reporting on the Ebola Virus). In the early 1960's a
Bolivian hemorrhagic fever outbreak was determined to be spread by a
particular type of rat who lived cheek-by-jowl with the villagers. The
researchers found that the virus was spread through the rat's urine.
Likewise, Lassa fever was also throughout the African continent primarily
by rats living in the villages, urinating on the stored grains, on the
dirt floors (which were swept often causing contaminated dust and feces to
fill the air). From the book "the rats were shedding virus in their
urine."
Naomi "me no like no pee-pee" Orbeck
hillary gorman
In <19970316180...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
Ngener <nge...@aol.com> wrote:
*Tony Sweeney wrote:
*
*<<Kiddie pools are more heavily chlorinated because they are typically
*much warmer than the regular pool, and the quantities of chemicals
*added is a direct function of the temperature you run it at. Urine
*is sterile in any case, so were it not for the temperature difference,
*the 'piddling pool' wouldn't need any more chlorine than the adult
*one.>>
[snip]*
*Likewise, Lassa fever was also throughout the African continent primarily
*by rats living in the villages, urinating on the stored grains, on the
*dirt floors (which were swept often causing contaminated dust and feces to
*fill the air). From the book "the rats were shedding virus in their
*urine."
I think Tony meant that NORMAL urine is sterile, which is true. Urine may
contain pathogenic microbes if the individual producing the urine has an
infection of some kind...
--
hillary gorman......................................hillary@netaxs.com
If you need help, contact <sup...@netaxs.com>
"So that's 2 T-1s and a newsfeed....would you like clues with that?"
Net Access...we got the clues, we got the funk, we got the bandwidth!
Steve Caskey
In Article <AF4F59C1...@hearsay.demon.co.uk>
sla...@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) writes:
>Alan Coren wrote in _Punch_ about a noxious pair of British people
>on holiday in Italy. They use their lack of language-skills and
>general obtuseness to get their way everywhere. It contained the
>memorable passage (probably mis-remembered)
>
>"Pity the pool's so full -- I fancied a dip. Never mind, I think
> I'll go in anyway. God, I'm bursting. Must be the Vino.
The piece was titled "El Sid" (sic) and, in case any of our gentle
readers have misunderstood, it was fictional.
Steve "wonder where the knotted-hanky-on-the-bonce cliche originated" Caskey
--
Just another mindless public servant at the Ministry of Education
"Fuck you. Don't set me up as television's gladiator Roseanne. I don't
wanna be anybody's role model. Go away." - Lucy Lawless, on being
declared a role model by Ms magazine, shows she's still a Kiwi
Larry Preuss
In article <slrn5ip06c....@unix3.netaxs.com>, hil...@hillary.net
(hillary gorman) wrote:
> I think Tony meant that NORMAL urine is sterile, which is true. Urine may
> contain pathogenic microbes if the individual producing the urine has an
> infection of some kind...
>
> --
> hillary gorman......................................hillary@netaxs.com
There would be times, in the field, when the only way to clean a dirty
wound would be for a person without urinary infection to urinate into that
wound.
An old-world, old-wives treatment for infantile eczema was application of
urine to the skin, as uric acid makes the outer layer of the skin absorb
moisture from the air. Eczema involves deficient skin-oil production,
leaving the epidermis "open" to dessication.
I can't, off-hand, think of a therapeutic use for feces.
Larry
--
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <lpreuss-ya0240800...@news.provide.net>,
the lovely and talented lpr...@provide.net (Larry Preuss)
broadcast on alt.folklore.urban:
|I can't, off-hand, think of a therapeutic use for feces.
It seems to me that some thirty or so years ago I read a
memoir of a young surgeon who used feces to make a milk
shake to replenish the intestinal flora of a patient who
had none owing to an intense course of antibiotics.
It think it was The Making of Surgeon, or something of the
sort. There were a number of sort of suspicious anecdotes
in the book.
--
==Lars Eighner=== http://www.io.com/~eighner == eig...@crl.com ==
==(210)979-7124== http://www.crl.com/~eighner == eig...@io.com ==
== 12550 Vista View #302 San Antonio TX 78231-2445 ==
Madeleine Page
Lars Eighner (eig...@crl.com) wrote:
: |I can't, off-hand, think of a therapeutic use for feces.
: It seems to me that some thirty or so years ago I read a
: memoir of a young surgeon who used feces to make a milk
: shake to replenish the intestinal flora of a patient who
: had none owing to an intense course of antibiotics.
: It think it was The Making of Surgeon, or something of the
: sort. There were a number of sort of suspicious anecdotes
: in the book.
While I will doubtless never again drink a chocolate milkshake, this seems
damnably implausible to me. Live yoghourt would do the job in half the
time without the same ick-factor.
Madeleine "and if he'd been stripped of flora, wouldn't the milk shake
have to have been made with someone else's feces?" Page
--
Nathan F Miller
Madeleine Page quoth & wrote:
>Lars Eighner (eig...@crl.com) wrote:
>: It seems to me that some thirty or so years ago I read a
>: memoir of a young surgeon who used feces to make a milk
>: shake to replenish the intestinal flora of a patient who
>: had none owing to an intense course of antibiotics.
>While I will doubtless never again drink a chocolate milkshake, this seems
>damnably implausible to me. Live yoghourt would do the job in half the
>time without the same ick-factor.
My non-professional understanding of the biolgical situation here is that
since the set of flora y fauna in feces is different from that in a
healthy upper gastro-intestinal tract, this sort of coprophagy is
dangerous. Some inappropriate critters from below could simply flourish
above in a novel environment for them, leading to Big Problems. It is
apples and oranges.
Nathan "so they should just feed the other end" Miller
Larry Preuss
> In our last episode <lpreuss-ya0240800...@news.provide.net>,
> the lovely and talented lpr...@provide.net (Larry Preuss)
> broadcast on alt.folklore.urban:
>
> |I can't, off-hand, think of a therapeutic use for feces.
>
>
> It seems to me that some thirty or so years ago I read a
> memoir of a young surgeon who used feces to make a milk
> shake to replenish the intestinal flora of a patient who
> had none owing to an intense course of antibiotics.
> It think it was The Making of Surgeon, or something of the
> sort. There were a number of sort of suspicious anecdotes
> in the book.
>
> --
> ==Lars Eighner=== http://www.io.com/~eighner == eig...@crl.com ==
Come to think of it, Lars, you are right. I didn't read that book, but now
remember one night 35 years ago when I stuffed feces into gelatin capsules
to feed to a very ill man who had pseudomembranous enterocolitis following
antibiotic administration. It was the only way the hospital staff could
think of to try to re-establish normal bacterial balance. Despite this,
along with vigorous intravenous fluid and electrolyte replacement, he died.
I never heard of the trick working, but there was a short period of time
when it was tried in such emergencies.
Larry
--
Trudi Marrapodi
> In our last episode <lpreuss-ya0240800...@news.provide.net>,
> the lovely and talented lpr...@provide.net (Larry Preuss)
> broadcast on alt.folklore.urban:
>
> |I can't, off-hand, think of a therapeutic use for feces.
>
>
> It seems to me that some thirty or so years ago I read a
> memoir of a young surgeon who used feces to make a milk
> shake to replenish the intestinal flora of a patient who
> had none owing to an intense course of antibiotics.
> It think it was The Making of Surgeon, or something of the
> sort. There were a number of sort of suspicious anecdotes
> in the book.
I've heard of people who "don't know shit from Shinola," but people who
"don't know shit from shakes"?
Trudi "make mine VANILLA or STRAWBERRY, please" Marrapodi
Benjamin Hansen
Interesting point, but I'd hate to vomit hydrofloric acid. The damage
to the esophagus alone would just ruin my whole day. Luckly I won't
have to worry about that as the acid in my stomach is hydrochloric.
Ben "Sorry about the etched bathroom tile..." Hansen
Lon Stowell
>> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
>> might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling rough,
>> much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
Well, no. Hydrofloric acid is pretty mild, the common name for
it being "rosewater".
On the other hand, if you meant stomach acid, that is a fairly
strong concentration of hydrochloric acid.
And if you really want something dangerous, try hydroflouric
acid, which can etch glass and remove lungs.
Peter Dalgaard BSA
lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
No. Hydroflouric acid is harmless and generated from fermentation of
mixtures of ground grain with water.
Peter "did I just get trolled?" Dalgaard
--
O__ ---- Peter Dalgaard Blegdamsvej 3
c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics 2200 Cph. N
(*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen Denmark Ph: (+45) 35327918
~~~~~~~~~~ - (p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk) FAX: (+45) 35327907
Colin R. Sharpe
Larry Preuss (lpr...@provide.net) wrote:
: Come to think of it, Lars, you are right. I didn't read that book, but now
: remember one night 35 years ago when I stuffed feces into gelatin capsules
: to feed to a very ill man who had pseudomembranous enterocolitis following
: antibiotic administration. It was the only way the hospital staff could
: think of to try to re-establish normal bacterial balance. Despite this,
: along with vigorous intravenous fluid and electrolyte replacement, he died.
: I never heard of the trick working, but there was a short period of time
: when it was tried in such emergencies.
: Larry
Sounds way too much like a tasteless movie starring Devine to me.
Colin Sharpe.
Edward Rice
In article <5gsa9p$e...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com>,
lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) wrote:
>>> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
>>> might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling rough,
>>> much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
>
> Well, no. Hydrofloric acid is pretty mild, the common name for
> it being "rosewater".
>
> On the other hand, if you meant stomach acid, that is a fairly
> strong concentration of hydrochloric acid.
>
> And if you really want something dangerous, try hydroflouric
> acid, which can etch glass and remove lungs.
Well, no: hydroflouric acid is just library paste waiting to happen.
But if you want something seriously dangerous, try hydrofluoric acid.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Lon Stowell wrote:
> And if you really want something dangerous, try hydroflouric
> acid, which can etch glass and remove lungs.
Well, no. Hydroflouric acid is another name for dilute white sauce
with vinegar. On the other hand Hydrofluoric acid is pretty dangerous
stuff.
Charles Wm. "sometimes both acid and caustic" Dimmick
Troy N. Terry
Agents report that Peter Dalgaard BSA wrote:
>
> lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>
> >
> > >> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
> > >> might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling rough,
> > >> much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
> >
> > Well, no. Hydrofloric acid is pretty mild, the common name for
> > it being "rosewater".
> >
> > On the other hand, if you meant stomach acid, that is a fairly
> > strong concentration of hydrochloric acid.
> >
> > acid, which can etch glass and remove lungs.
>
> mixtures of ground grain with water.
>
I think Stowell may have been referring to hydroflooric
acid which is used in heavy mopping applications.
Pax,
T. Terry
Lon Stowell
In article <AF5BB03B...@shiva1-mclean-228.his.com>,
Edward Rice <ehr...@his.com> wrote:
>
>Well, no: hydroflouric acid is just library paste waiting to happen.
>
>But if you want something seriously dangerous, try hydrofluoric acid.
>
I think Edward is onto something here. Could it be that he
has just demonstrated why there are no dyslexic, live, chemists?
Rick Tyler
On 24 Mar 1997 12:07:28 -0800, lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon
Stowell) wrote:
:In article <AF5BB03B...@shiva1-mclean-228.his.com>,
:
Bad sleppers of the whorled, untie!
----------------------------------
"I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning."
-- Plato
Cindy Kandolf
Lon Stowell (lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com) writes:
| >> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
| >> might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling rough,
| >> much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
|
| Well, no. Hydrofloric acid is pretty mild, the common name for
| it being "rosewater".
Erm. For the record, i didn't write anything about hydrofloric,
hydrochloric, hydrofluoric, or even hydroquebec acid, at least not in
this thread. I just wrote something about chlorine in kiddie pools.
Honest.
There is no such thing as hydroflodnak acid.
- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: ci...@nvg.ntnu.no flodhome: Trondheim, Norway
flodweb: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/
I will be gone for an extended period starting later this week. If
you want to be sure i will see your reply, please e-mail me a copy.
Terry Smith
> From: ehr...@his.com (Edward Rice)
> lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) wrote:
>>> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
>>> might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling
rough,
>>> much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
>
> Well, no. Hydrofloric acid is pretty mild, the common name for
> it being "rosewater".
>
> And if you really want something dangerous, try hydroflouric
> acid, which can etch glass and remove lungs.
> Well, no: hydroflouric acid is just library paste waiting to
> happen.
> But if you want something seriously dangerous, try hydrofluoric
> acid.
It'll bring more than tears to your eyes if you take a good whiff, but not
as much as hydrochloric. The fun part is keeping it in the bottles.
Terry
--
|Fidonet: Terry Smith 3:800/846.23
|Internet: Te...@gastro.apana.org.au
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
Lon Stowell
In article <327_970...@gastro.apana.org.au>,
Terry Smith <Te...@gastro.apana.org.au> wrote:
> > From: ehr...@his.com (Edward Rice)
>
> > lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) wrote:
>
>>>> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
>>>> might clean everything but enamel off teeth, leaving them feeling
>rough,
>>>> much like hydrofloric acid from the stomach does after vomiting.
>>
>> Well, no. Hydrofloric acid is pretty mild, the common name for
>> it being "rosewater".
>>
>> And if you really want something dangerous, try hydroflouric
>> acid, which can etch glass and remove lungs.
>
> > Well, no: hydroflouric acid is just library paste waiting to
> > happen.
>
> > But if you want something seriously dangerous, try hydrofluoric
> > acid.
>
>It'll bring more than tears to your eyes if you take a good whiff, but not
>as much as hydrochloric. The fun part is keeping it in the bottles.
>
Not really. If you EVER take a good whiff of "The Acid formerly
known as acqueous hydrogen flouride" you will be missing some
critical portions of your interior...say lung cells. The vapors
are more toxic than those of HCL.