8-note Chime--What's its name?
Jamie Cox
AFU.
You guys eat stuff like this for breakfast.
There is a tune you all know. It is familiar to anyone who ever lived near
a church
or college. It is played by many clock towers. In fact, it seems to be
played by nearly
all of them. It can also be heard many other places: from my electronic
doorbell and as a
guitar part in the song "Clock Strikes Ten" by Cheap Trick. I have heard
it often
in the United States, and heard it from a clock tower in London.
The tune as I know it consists of a series of eight notes. I suspect that
the traditional
"Ding Dong" of most doorbells is the same as the first two notes of the tune.
So, what is the name of this tune? Does it have a name? Does it have any words?
How old is it? What is its origin?
Thanks,
-Jamie Cox
meow
> There is a tune you all know. It is familiar to anyone who ever
> lived near a church or college.
You mean the Westminster chimes?
> and heard it from a clock tower in London.
Like, the big one in Westminster?
> The tune as I know it consists of a series of eight notes.
Well not eight, because it repeats some of them.
> I suspect that the traditional "Ding Dong" of most doorbells is the
> same as the first two notes of the tune.
No, that's derived from the Woody Woodpecker theme.
> So, what is the name of this tune? Does it have a name?
"Let 'Em In" from _Wings at the Speed of Sound_. The tower was built
by people who really, really liked that record.
> Does it have any words?
Yup!
Da da lum dum,
Ya da hum dum.
> How old is it? What is its origin?
Early to mid 1970s, Columbia Records IIRC.
Nick Spalding
> This is a strange question, and I couldn't find a better group for it than
> AFU.
> You guys eat stuff like this for breakfast.
>
> There is a tune you all know. It is familiar to anyone who ever lived near
> a church
> or college. It is played by many clock towers. In fact, it seems to be
> played by nearly
> all of them. It can also be heard many other places: from my electronic
> doorbell and as a
> guitar part in the song "Clock Strikes Ten" by Cheap Trick. I have heard
> it often
> in the United States, and heard it from a clock tower in London.
>
> The tune as I know it consists of a series of eight notes. I suspect that
> the traditional
> "Ding Dong" of most doorbells is the same as the first two notes of the tune.
>
> So, what is the name of this tune? Does it have a name? Does it have any words?
> How old is it? What is its origin?
I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben. It
dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
--
Nick Spalding
Dan Norder
>words?
>How old is it? What is its origin?
>
>
>-Jamie Cox
I don't know if these words I heard came later or were
always attached to the notes, but in either an old book
of children's stories or a beginner's how to learn to play
the piano booklet, the words were listed as:
In the clock tower / Hear the bells ring
Strike to the hour / Ding dong ding ding
Followed by the chiming on notes indicating the hour.
Dan "which strikes me as a late addition" Norder
Mythology Web -- http://www.mythology.com
Ned Holbrook
>Jamie Cox wrote:
>
>> So, what is the name of this tune?
>
>I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
>Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
>four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben. It
>dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
>Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
FWIW, there are 16 notes in the Westminster chime, followed by the hour
strike(s). The title of Mr. Cox's original posting refers to a chime with
8 notes; unless his doorbell and Cheap Trick play a shortened version of
Westminster, it's a different chime.
Westminster is played: la fa so do / fa so la fa / la so fa do / do so la fa.
Ned "I prefer playing Whittington on my bell tower" Holbrook
--
Ned Holbrook http://web.dartmouth.edu/~holbrook/ n...@kagi.com
* The Electric Mayhem World Tour '96 *** The Electric Mayhem World Tour '96 *
Dale Leaman
> [snip]
> Westminster is played: la fa so do / fa so la fa / la so fa do / do so la fa.
>
mi do re so / do re mi do / mi re do so / so re mi[1] do
Which gives us a nice V-I cadence at the end.
[1]Please note that this is a correction to my earlier poorly proofread
post.
Dale "It seems the splelling meta-rule also applies to solfege." Leaman
Deborah Stevenson
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Dale Leaman wrote:
> Ned Holbrook wrote:
> > [snip]
> > Westminster is played: la fa so do / fa so la fa / la so fa do / do so la fa.
> >
> Assuming a movable do, I've always thought of it as:
>
> mi do re so / do re mi do / mi re do so / so re mi[1] do
>
> Which gives us a nice V-I cadence at the end.
This is where I'd have put the tonic myself (though since most of my
note-names these days come in Sacred Harp so I get easily confused).
However, just as with the earlier solfege, I offer up the contradictory
fact that the commercial "Westminster" chime on my grandfather clock
merely repeated the first two measures with no variation for the full
hour chime. Therefore the poster's reference to eight tones made sense to
me.
Deborah "so close and yet sol-fa" Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Joe Thompson
> FWIW, there are 16 notes in the Westminster chime, followed by the hour
> strike(s). The title of Mr. Cox's original posting refers to a chime with
> 8 notes; unless his doorbell and Cheap Trick play a shortened version of
> Westminster, it's a different chime.
The University of Virginia chapel bells play the full 16-note chime; Mr.
Cox' original post reminded me instantly of that chime so I suspect it is
indeed (a shortened version of) the Westminster to which he refers. I've
come to associate that chime with the University, as it's only while on the
Central Grounds that I've ever taken note of it. -- Joe
Elron Xemoo
>>There is a tune you all know. It is familiar to anyone who ever lived near
a church
>>or college. It is played by many clock towers
Most importantly, it's played in the clock tower of Westminster Abbey, so
clocks that play this tune are said to have Westminster chimes. Most
grandfather clocks play this, and many play it or one of several others,
such as St Michael's, depending on a setting.
R H Draney
> >So, what is the name of this tune? Does it have a name? Does it have any
> >words?
> >How old is it? What is its origin?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >-Jamie Cox
>
> I don't know if these words I heard came later or were
> always attached to the notes, but in either an old book
> of children's stories or a beginner's how to learn to play
> the piano booklet, the words were listed as:
>
> In the clock tower / Hear the bells ring
> Strike to the hour / Ding dong ding ding
>
> Followed by the chiming on notes indicating the hour.
I'd guess those were added later, much like the probably spurious lyrics I
have on one set of song sheets for Joplin's "The Entertainer"....
I'm going to take a risk here and add a further question about a familiar bit
of music...(my double-edged theory is that either someone here will be able
to answer the question or can direct *everybody* with such questions to a
more appropriate venue)...what's the incidental music I keep hearing in
commercials and TV shows that denotes a gunfight about to start (or parodies
where this image is meant to be invoked)?...instrumentation consists of a
chime and a high, slow whistling melody...I had the impression that it was
one of Ennio Morricone's pieces for a Leone western, but none of the
anthologies of his music that I've checked contains anything quite like
it...(most memorable recent sightings were a Wendy's commercial where the
owner sits down across from a tough-looking fella and the two of them proceed
to eat something very spicy, and an episode of "The Adventures of Pete and
Pete" when one of the two Petes decides to answer the payphone that's been
ringing for fifteen years)....r
--
"I may not know much about art, but I know what they tell me I'm supposed to
like."
Ray Depew
: Jamie Cox wrote:
: > This is a strange question, and I couldn't find a better group for it than
: > AFU.
: > You guys eat stuff like this for breakfast.
: >
: > There is a tune you all know. It is familiar to anyone who ever lived near
: > a church
: > or college. It is played by many clock towers.
[...]
: I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
: Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
: four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben. It
: dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
: Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
"Oranges and lemons, sing the bells of St. Clemens ..."
Cool. So other than Westminster and St. Clemens, what other bell tower
tunes are immortalized by everyday usage? (I wonder if "nanner nanner
noo noo" started out as a bell tower tune, but I'm afraid to ask because
that'll start another interminable thread.)
R
R
Joyce Aarness
>
> I'm going to take a risk here and add a further question about a familiar bit
> of music...(my double-edged theory is that either someone here will be able
> to answer the question or can direct *everybody* with such questions to a
> more appropriate venue)...what's the incidental music I keep hearing in
> commercials and TV shows that denotes a gunfight about to start (or parodies
> where this image is meant to be invoked)?...instrumentation consists of a
> chime and a high, slow whistling melody...I had the impression that it was
> one of Ennio Morricone's pieces for a Leone western, but none of the
> anthologies of his music that I've checked contains anything quite like
> it...(most memorable recent sightings were a Wendy's commercial where the
> owner sits down across from a tough-looking fella and the two of them proceed
> to eat something very spicy, and an episode of "The Adventures of Pete and
> Pete" when one of the two Petes decides to answer the payphone that's been
> ringing for fifteen years)....r
Well, could it be the theme song from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly"?
I've been hearing that one quite a bit lately in television commercials.
Joyce " my dad loves Westerns, especially with Clint Eastwood in them"
Aarness
Joyce Aarness
Sorry about replying to my own post, but you can find a .wav file of the
theme song for "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly at
http://soundamerica.com under themes, the file--goodbadu.wav.
Joyce "way off topic here" Aarness
McCaffertA
(Dan Norder) writes:
>I don't know if these words I heard came later or were
>always attached to the notes, but in either an old book
>of children's stories or a beginner's how to learn to play
>the piano booklet, the words were listed as:
>
>In the clock tower / Hear the bells ring
>Strike to the hour / Ding dong ding ding
>
The correct words are, of course:
Samgrass green arse, green arse Samgrass.
Just ask the man with the teddy bear.
Viv
<dado...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:I'm going to take a risk here and add a further question about a familiar bit
:of music...(my double-edged theory is that either someone here will be able
:to answer the question or can direct *everybody* with such questions to a
:more appropriate venue)...what's the incidental music I keep hearing in
:commercials and TV shows that denotes a gunfight about to start (or parodies
:where this image is meant to be invoked)?...instrumentation consists of a
:chime and a high, slow whistling melody...I had the impression that it was
:one of Ennio Morricone's pieces for a Leone western, but none of the
:anthologies of his music that I've checked contains anything quite like
:it...(most memorable recent sightings were a Wendy's commercial where the
:owner sits down across from a tough-looking fella and the two of them proceed
:to eat something very spicy, and an episode of "The Adventures of Pete and
:Pete" when one of the two Petes decides to answer the payphone that's been
:ringing for fifteen years)....r
Me has always thunk it to be from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" -
but I could be wayyy wrong.
R H Draney
> Cool. So other than Westminster and St. Clemens, what other bell tower
> tunes are immortalized by everyday usage? (I wonder if "nanner nanner
> noo noo" started out as a bell tower tune, but I'm afraid to ask because
> that'll start another interminable thread.)
The bells of St Mary-le-Bow?...having them within earshot at birth is supposed to
make you a Cockney....r
R H Draney
> Joyce Aarness wrote:
> > Well, could it be the theme song from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly"?
> > I've been hearing that one quite a bit lately in television commercials.
> >
> > Joyce " my dad loves Westerns, especially with Clint Eastwood in them"
> > Aarness
>
> Sorry about replying to my own post, but you can find a .wav file of the
> theme song for "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly at
> http://soundamerica.com under themes, the file--goodbadu.wav.
No, at least not the theme song...I know that one a little too well to mistake one
for the other...it's actually closer to the theme from "For A Few Dollars More", but
that's not it either....
> Joyce "way off topic here" Aarness
You bet we are...that's why I asked if there might be a better place to ask this
question....r
d...@dandrake.com
wrote:
> Jamie Cox wrote in message ...
>
> >>There is a tune you all know. It is familiar to anyone who ever lived near
> a church
> >>or college. It is played by many clock towers
>
> Most importantly, it's played in the clock tower of Westminster Abbey, so
> clocks that play this tune are said to have Westminster chimes.
Westminster Abbey? I thought it was from Big Ben, just down the
street in Westminster. Londoners please clarify.
--
Dan Drake
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/
John Lupton
>: I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
>: Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
>: four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben. It
>: dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
>: Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
>
>"Oranges and lemons, sing the bells of St. Clemens ..."
>
>Cool. So other than Westminster and St. Clemens, what other bell tower
>tunes are immortalized by everyday usage? (I wonder if "nanner nanner
>noo noo" started out as a bell tower tune, but I'm afraid to ask because
>that'll start another interminable thread.)
Possibly a little off the subject, but if you have an interest in bells and
bell towers, one of Dorothy Sayers' "Lord Peter Wimsey" mysteries, "The Nine
Tailors", features the art of change ringing as an integral part of the plot.
It's been a long time since I read it, but it was really interesting.
**********************************************
John Lupton, Network Services Manager
School of Arts & Sciences Computing
University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia PA
**********************************************
jlu...@sas.upenn.edu
sha...@my-deja.com
> : Jamie Cox wrote:
>
> : > This is a strange question, and I couldn't find a better group for
it than
> : > AFU.
> : > You guys eat stuff like this for breakfast.
> : >
lived near
> : > a church
> : > or college. It is played by many clock towers.
> [...]
>
> : I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
> : Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
> : four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben.
It
> : dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
> : Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
>
> "Oranges and lemons, sing the bells of St. Clemens ..."
>
> Cool. So other than Westminster and St. Clemens, what other bell
tower
> tunes are immortalized by everyday usage? (I wonder if "nanner nanner
> noo noo" started out as a bell tower tune, but I'm afraid to ask
because
> that'll start another interminable thread.)
>
> R
>
Nanner nanner noo noo? Are you speaking of the children's taunt? If
so, I always thought it was nanny nanny boo boo.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mike Holmans
207-181-236-96.cust.dnai.com>, d...@dandrake.com decided to impart
>On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:39:38, "Elron Xemoo" <Fil...@MailCity.Com>
>wrote:
>
>> Jamie Cox wrote in message ...
>>
>> a church
>>
>> Most importantly, it's played in the clock tower of Westminster Abbey, so
>> clocks that play this tune are said to have Westminster chimes.
>
>Westminster Abbey? I thought it was from Big Ben, just down the
>street in Westminster. Londoners please clarify.
>
Which is just across the street from Westminster Abbey.
Mike "maybe it's a big horse" Holmans
El Sig is still trying to find his way around this new computer, so I
don't know where he's got to
Joyce Aarness
>
> In article <7u28dm$p0u$2...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>,
> r...@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew) wrote:
> > Nick Spalding (spal...@iol.ie) wrote:
> > : Jamie Cox wrote:
> >
> > : > This is a strange question, and I couldn't find a better group for
> it than
> > : > AFU.
> > : > You guys eat stuff like this for breakfast.
> > : >
> lived near
> > : > a church
> > : > or college. It is played by many clock towers.
> > [...]
> >
> > : I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
> > : Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
> > : four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben.
> It
> > : dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
> > : Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
> >
> > "Oranges and lemons, sing the bells of St. Clemens ..."
> >
> > Cool. So other than Westminster and St. Clemens, what other bell
> tower
> > tunes are immortalized by everyday usage? (I wonder if "nanner nanner
> > noo noo" started out as a bell tower tune, but I'm afraid to ask
> because
> > that'll start another interminable thread.)
> >
> > R
> > R
> >
>
> Nanner nanner noo noo? Are you speaking of the children's taunt? If
> so, I always thought it was nanny nanny boo boo.
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
No, it's "neener neener boo boo".
Joyce Aarness
John D. Goulden
> Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
> four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben. It
> dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
> Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
Ectually, the "well-known" bell is Big Tom. Big Ben is a clock.
--
Please reply by email as well as to the group.
John D. Goulden
jgou...@flash.net
Lon Stowell
>
>"Oranges and lemons, sing the bells of St. Clemens ..."
>
>Cool. So other than Westminster and St. Clemens, what other bell tower
>tunes are immortalized by everyday usage? (I wonder if "nanner nanner
>noo noo" started out as a bell tower tune, but I'm afraid to ask because
>that'll start another interminable thread.)
From whence rings the inspiration for the moldy oldy tune,
"The Bells of St. Mary's"?
John Francis
John D. Goulden <jdgo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I think you are referring to the Westminster Chime, after the
>> Westminster Clock at the Houses of Parliament in London. There are
>> four chiming bells and one striking bell, the well-known Big Ben. It
>> dates from the 1850s. The chime is copied from that in St. Mary's
>> Church, Cambridge - how old that is I don't know.
>
>Ectually, the "well-known" bell is Big Tom. Big Ben is a clock.
Can you provide evidence to support this position?
Before you answere, you might like to take a look at
http://www.londonnet.co.uk/ln/guide/about/gallbigb.html
which states (amongst other things):
"Big Ben" does not refer to the whole clocktower, but
to the huge thirteenth bell which strikes the hour. The
bell was named after a popular heavyweight boxer
Benjamin Caunt.
I also found, at http://www.city.ac.uk/linguanews/touattr.htm
Big Ben: The name of this 13.5 ton bell which strikes the hours
in the clock tower of the Houses of Parliament. It was
cast at the Whitechapel Foundry in 1858.
So the first two web sites that popped up on a quick search both
disagree with your position (and agree with my recollection that
"Big Ben" isn't the clock, but is instead the bell that tolls the
hours). So all the photographs that purport to show "Big Ben" are
merely showing the clock tower of the Palace of Westminster.
John D. Goulden
Big Tom. The bell is...well, you know already.
--
Please reply by email as well as to the group.
John "big foot in mouth" Goulden
jdgo...@yahoo.com
Edward Rice
jm...@bbs.madmad.org (Jamie Cox) wrote:
> This is a strange question, and I couldn't find a better group for it
than
> AFU.
> You guys eat stuff like this for breakfast.
We do, indeed. But note that it's not urban legend material, and that we
/prefer/ to eat for breakfast is urban legendry.
> The tune as I know it consists of a series of eight notes. I suspect
that
> the traditional
> "Ding Dong" of most doorbells is the same as the first two notes of the
tune.
>
> So, what is the name of this tune? Does it have a name? Does it have any
words?
> How old is it? What is its origin?
A simple search (+"westminster chimes" +listen) turns up a ton of
information. Check out some of these URLs for WAY more information than
you really wanted, I suspect.
http://www.ely.anglican.org/parishes/camgsm/bells.html#chimebells
http://www.tufts.edu/as/stu-org/tuftsdaily/archives/spring99/features/F0304bel~.html
http://www.evol.org/disco.html (search down to "chimes")
http://www.pageright.com/clocks/ (search to "chimes" and also to
"melodies")
http://www.best.com/~pjl/personal/clocks/#listen (play from a
selection)
Nick Spalding
> Oops, my bad. That's what happens when you post in a hurry. The _clock_ is
> Big Tom. The bell is...well, you know already.
Cite please. I've never heard of this name for it. The clock is
commonly but erroneously also called Big Ben.
--
Nick Spalding
Articulate Mandible
>Nanner nanner noo noo? Are you speaking of the children's
>taunt? If so, I always thought it was nanny nanny boo boo.
"RABBIT!"
"BUNNY!"
--
Stop casting porosity, damnit!
Imprison the Free Radicals!
Please visit http://www.urbanlegends.com/ or
http://www.snopes.com/ for the latest in legendry
John Francis
Come to that I'd like to see a cite for the original claim that the
"Westminster Chimes" were copied from Great St. Mary's in Cambridge.
(Whose bell is *not* called 'Old Tom' - isn't that in the other place?).
Nick Spalding
> Come to that I'd like to see a cite for the original claim that the
> "Westminster Chimes" were copied from Great St. Mary's in Cambridge.
My source is a book by Lt-Commander Rupert Gould R.N. called
'Stargazer Talks' published by Geoffrey Bles, 37 Essex Street, Strand,
London in 1943. It is a collection of talks given by him on BBC radio
in the 30s and 40s. On p60 is the following:
Now for the bells - there are five of them. Denison [the designer
of the clock], who was a Cambridge man, was bent on using the same
chimes as St. Mary's Church, Cambridge, does - everybody knows them,
today, as the "Westminster Chimes".
Gould was by way of being a bit of a clock expert. It was he who in
1920 (according to Dava Sobel's "Longitude") rescued Harrison's four
chronometers which had been lying in a damp storeroom for about a
century and restored them to the working order they are in today. It
took him something like 15 years.
--
Nick Spalding
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> sha...@my-deja.com wrote in <7u5e86$6hs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
> >Nanner nanner noo noo? Are you speaking of the children's
> >taunt? If so, I always thought it was nanny nanny boo boo.
>
> "RABBIT!"
> "BUNNY!"
"DUCK"
Charles "and that's Little Bunny foo foo" Dimmick
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping
the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like
sae mony road-makers run daft -- they say it is
to see how the warld was made!"
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Dale Leaman wrote:
>
> > Ned Holbrook wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > Westminster is played: la fa so do / fa so la fa / la so fa do / do so la fa.
> > >
> > Assuming a movable do, I've always thought of it as:
> >
> > mi do re so / do re mi do / mi re do so / so re mi[1] do
> >
> > Which gives us a nice V-I cadence at the end.
>
> This is where I'd have put the tonic myself (though since most of my
> note-names these days come in Sacred Harp so I get easily confused).
> However, just as with the earlier solfege, I offer up the contradictory
> fact that the commercial "Westminster" chime on my grandfather clock
> merely repeated the first two measures with no variation for the full
> hour chime. Therefore the poster's reference to eight tones made sense to
> me.
In my mother's house there are three hall clocks and 8 or nine shelf
clocks. Many of them have some variation of Westminster chimes, and
the general pattern is for the first 4 notes to sound on the quarter hour,
8 notes to chime on the half hour, and the full 16-note sequence on the
hour. Then there are the two cuckoo clocks, which of course have their
own ideas on the matter, usually playing a portion of some alpine
melody before sounding off. Then there is the Organ Clock. It plays
a bunch of miniature organ pipes on the hour, driven by a mechanism
similar to that in a music box. (Trivia bit: several composers, late 1700's
wrote music for organ clocks.)
Charles