Johnny Carson & Zsa Zsa
snopes
> it's just that we can't be SURE without proof, which in this case,
> if it is true, should be readily available.
And just what form would this "readily available" proof come in?
- snopes
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes is manufactured and packaged under strict sanitary conditions. |
| Apply a small quantity. Adjust amount for individual need. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Walter Eric Johnson
: In article <4fun2l$d...@news.tamu.edu>,
: wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric Johnson) wrote:
: >If he had heard it from someone else, I don't believe he could have
: >thought up the idea of organizing such a scheme solely for the
: >purpose of fooling me, which is precisely what you are arguing.
: >And he definitely is not the source of the whole thing. I
: >would have an easier time believing those kooks who swear
: >that the whole space program is a sham and that noone has
: >ever gone to the moon -- that the whole thing is a Hollywood
: >creation.
: >
: >There is also some difference between this and word of mouth that
: >you seem to be ignorant of. His telling me of the incident was at
: >the time it happened, not months or years later. To call this
: >"word of mouth" implies a significant period of time between
: >the incident and the telling of.
: >
: If "Motto" is a foreign term to you, I guess "get a clue" is as well. Either
: dig up proof in the form of video, audio, or printed matter and convince us or
: let the matter drop. If that answer does not satisfy you AFU does maintain a
: rather large windmill just down the street. You are more than welcome to go
: there and try your hand at "tilting".
I've probably been familiar with the term "get a clue" a lot longer
than you.
: By the way, one day my 4 year old son told me that Bert and Ernie of Sesame
: Street were gay. He had no idea of the meaning of that word. Did that make
: it so?
This is not the same thing. Your 4 year old son was certainly repeating
something he was told. My brother was repeating something he had heard.
: One last thing: word of mouth is just that. Words spoken without
: colloboration. Elapsed time has nothing to do with it.
I talked to my brother tonight. He remembers the incident well.
Hopefully, he will have an internet connection where he lives one of
these days and can tell you himself. Then, as if it makes a difference
to people like you, you will have a first-person eyewitness to the
event.
Eric Johnson
Edward of Sim
: One last thing: word of mouth is just that. Words spoken without
: colloboration. Elapsed time has nothing to do with it.
Yes, and let me be the first to colloborate the voracity of this
definition.
Edward "Ted Turner's colloboration of classic films must be stopped" of
Sim
--
Edward of Sim
tree...@netcom.com
"I don't want to hide or run away, like I used to want to every day."
- Joe LaRose
Jennifer Mullen
In article <4g2it6$l...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric
Johnson) says:
I'm sorry - I'm not drunk enough to respond to this yet. Give me a
few days.
-Jennifer "hehe" Mullen
+------------------------------------+-----------------------------------
mail: que...@psu.edu Web: http://198.106.163.249/~jen/
"When I was younger I wanted to be a boy. Now I'm very aware of what I am,
and I don't pretend to be anything else." -PJ Harvey
Walter Eric Johnson
: Quoth Walter Eric Johnson:
: : There is also some difference between this and word of mouth that
: : you seem to be ignorant of. His telling me of the incident was at
: : the time it happened, not months or years later. To call this
: : "word of mouth" implies a significant period of time between
: : the incident and the telling of.
: That's from your perspective. In this forum, YOU're the one trying
: to convince US. You hearing it from him may or may not have been,
: but YOU telling US what YOU have been TOLD is most definitely word
: of mouth.
: Doesn't mean we're accusing you or your brother of lying, it's
: just that we can't be SURE without proof, which in this case,
: if it is true, should be readily available.
Absolute proof will probably never be available. We didn't have
home VCRs back then. Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network
would like to forget about it. Do you think they are going to
replay the film (or tape) of the show? Of course not. The only
evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it. And
most of those who saw it are probably not going to be reading AFU
at any time. It was almost 30 years ago -- if the average viewer
then was 40, they are nearly 70 now and not your typical AFU
reader. The result is that you are either going to have to
believe it based on someone's word or you are going to be wrong.
Eric Johnson
JoAnne Schmitz
>: In article <4fun2l$d...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric
>: Johnson) says:
>: >If he had heard it from someone else, I don't believe he could have
>: >thought up the idea of organizing such a scheme solely for the
>: >purpose of fooling me, which is precisely what you are arguing.
>For your scenario to have happened, he would have had to have
>heard it from someone else, not said a word about it to anyone,
>then that night during Johnny Carson, laugh like crazy until I
>asked him what was funny, and tell me the story as if it had
>just happened. That is nuts.
His buddy at school suggested, "Next time numb nuts is in the bathroom
when Carson is on, start laughing like crazy, when he comes out tell
him this story about Zsa Zsa and her pussy. My brother pulled this on
our Mom."
>: >There is also some difference between this and word of mouth that
>: >you seem to be ignorant of. His telling me of the incident was at
>: >the time it happened, not months or years later.
A moose just flew by my window. Not months or years ago. Just now.
Believe me?
>To call this
>: >"word of mouth" implies a significant period of time between
>: >the incident and the telling of.
As others have said, nope. It means you were not a witness.
JoAnne "you must have an awfully long leg with a brother like yours"
Schmitz
Ted Frank
Walter Eric Johnson <wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu> wrote:
>Absolute proof will probably never be available.
Nonsense. Every issue of TV Guide is still extant. Every episode
of "The Tonight Show" is extant at New York's Museum of Broadcast
Communications. It'd be a one- or two-day research project to figure
out the five or six times Zsa Zsa Gabor was on The Tonight Show between
1968 and 1970, and watch those tapes.
Of course, I'd still be curious why the exchange was broadcast by a
network afraid to show belly buttons, considering that the show was
taped and NBC as of last year was willing to censor "The Tonight Show"
when appropriate. Or is the taping of the show a recent phenomenon?
--
m...@radix.net
"I think Pat Buchanan sounds more like me every day." -- David Duke
"[Gramm] divorced a white wife to marry an Asiatic."
-- Pat Buchanan campaign literature in Louisiana
frank adey, 101556,547
--
Frank Adey
Walter Eric Johnson
: In article <4g3ab5$5...@news.tamu.edu>,
: Walter Eric Johnson <wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu> wrote:
: >Absolute proof will probably never be available.
: Nonsense. Every issue of TV Guide is still extant. Every episode
: of "The Tonight Show" is extant at New York's Museum of Broadcast
: Communications. It'd be a one- or two-day research project to figure
: out the five or six times Zsa Zsa Gabor was on The Tonight Show between
: 1968 and 1970, and watch those tapes.
: Of course, I'd still be curious why the exchange was broadcast by a
: network afraid to show belly buttons, considering that the show was
: taped and NBC as of last year was willing to censor "The Tonight Show"
: when appropriate. Or is the taping of the show a recent phenomenon?
We still have live shows today, but usually just the news. Years ago
on many talk shows, the commercials were even live which made for some
really bizarre commercials. I don't know whether the Tonight Show
was taped (more likely filmed) or broadcast live, and if it was
broadcast live, at what point they switched to taping. I wonder
if the film processing time could have been a problem if the show
was done in the afternoon and broadcast that evening.
Eric Johnson
snopes
> Not necessarily. A few years back I made an attempt to locate a 1966
> episode of Jeopardy! on which my mother appeared. I discovered that most
> television shows then were filmed, not taped, and for the most part the
> films were not saved.
I'm curious about the Manderian leap of logic being made here: because
copies of "Jeopardy!" from 1966 are not available, copies of "The Tonight
Show" must not be, either? Are you claiming that the disposal of filmed
programming was an industry-wide standard practice, regardless of subject
or content? Where did all the mid-60's footage from _The Ed Sullivan Show_
come from, then?
- snopes
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| Caution: Reading this .sig does not enable user to fly. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Drew Lawson
> ObUL: Doesn't "Extra Virgin" mean they sacrificed another village cutie to
> ensure quality?
Don't be silly.
You don't think they're killing the *cute* virgins, do you?
Drew "Montana --
where the men are men,
the women are women,
and the sheep are nervous" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson | If you're not part of the solution,
dla...@aimnet.com | you're part of the precipitate
Drew Lawson
> In article <4fpst1$o...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter
> Eric Johnson) wrote:
>
> >[...] do you think everyone had younger brothers just as
> > devious as he would have had to have been?
>
> MOTTO!
I'm sorry, your entry in the MOTTO contest has been rejected
on grounds of plagarism.
The prior motto of, "Hey, this is my grandmother we're talking about"
has been well documented.
Drew "enjoy some lovely parting gifts" Lawson
snopes
> Every episode of "The Tonight Show" is extant at New York's Museum of
> Broadcast Communications.
Not unless they've made a tremendous discovery within the last few years
that I didn't hear about. All that remains of the pre-1972 "Tonight Show"
are a handful of complete shows and various assorted clips. The rest of
the tapes were destroyed at the behest of yet another short-sighted
network pennypincher.
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| WARNING: It is especially important not to read snopes articles during |
| the last 3 months of pregnancy unless specifically directed to do so by |
| a doctor because it may cause problems in the unborn child or compli- |
| cations during delivery. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
snopes
> Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network would like to forget about it.
Really? So, how come Johnny saw fit to say this on his own nationwide TV
show, and neither he nor the network felt it needed to be censored or
cut before the show was aired? And if they'd like everyone to "forget
about it" so much, why did they make a point of mentioning it on
Johnny's last show?
> The only evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it.
Wrong. Where are the contemporary newspaper and magazine accounts of this
event? Surely an incident so memorable would have been mentioned at least
in passing. Just like the "Uncle Don" incident, this story follows the
typical apocryphal event pattern: nobody bothers to mention them at the
time they occur, but years later they're referenced as something that took
place sometime in the indefinite past. Nobody ever has a specific date or
a source, and the belief of the people who claim to have witnessed these
events is never shaken even when proof is available to demonstrate that
they couldn't possibly have.
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes was laboratory tested for safety. As with any other poster, |
| should irritation or discomfort result, discontinue reading immediately. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
snopes
> Of course, I'd still be curious why the exchange was broadcast by a
> network afraid to show belly buttons, considering that the show was
> taped and NBC as of last year was willing to censor "The Tonight Show"
> when appropriate. Or is the taping of the show a recent phenomenon?
In those days (i.e., non-Lasnerian late 1960's/early 1970's), "The
Tonight Show" was still being done in New York, aired from 11:15 PM
to 1:00 AM, and was taped between 7:30 and 9:00 PM.
- snopes
Drew Lawson
> In article <4g2it6$l...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric
> Johnson) says:
>
> I'm sorry - I'm not drunk enough to respond to this yet. Give me a
> few days.
Hell, if snopes can do it, I can do it.
Jennifer, will you marry me?
Drew "drunk enough" Lawson
Drew Lawson
> Absolute proof will probably never be available. We didn't have
> home VCRs back then. Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network
> would like to forget about it. Do you think they are going to
> replay the film (or tape) of the show? Of course not.
I'm sorry, you submission to the X Files Conspiracy Plot
contest came in after the deadline.
But seriously (or almost so), most, if not all, of the Carson
era of the Tonight Show was *not* live television. The episodes
were tapes *and* archived.
Where do you think those dreary "highlights" specials come from?
If someone could provide an air-date, I think the whole thing
could be verified.
Unfortunately for your position, this is much like finding the
air-date that the Procter&Gamble officials said on Donahue that
they are Satanists.
> The only
> evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it. And
> most of those who saw it are probably not going to be reading AFU
> at any time.
But *some* of them will write TV "history" books, don't you think?
> It was almost 30 years ago -- if the average viewer
> then was 40, they are nearly 70 now and not your typical AFU
> reader.
If I recall my reading of The Great Age List correctly, there are at
least a few here over 60 (I'm not one of them).
Drew "Sorry, need to get on stage so I
can collapse and vomit a pint of semen" Lawson
David Craven
>From: m...@Radix.Net (Ted Frank)
>Subject: Re: Johnny Carson & Zsa Zsa
>Date: 17 Feb 1996 00:17:15 -0500
>In article <4g3ab5$5...@news.tamu.edu>,
>Walter Eric Johnson <wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu> wrote:
>>Absolute proof will probably never be available.
>Nonsense. Every issue of TV Guide is still extant. Every episode
>of "The Tonight Show" is extant at New York's Museum of Broadcast
>Communications. It'd be a one- or two-day research project to figure
>out the five or six times Zsa Zsa Gabor was on The Tonight Show between
>1968 and 1970, and watch those tapes.
Uh.. No. All of the Episodes once they want to VIdeo Tape. Most of the early
KNoscopes were destroyed for the silver..
Glenn Weinstein
> : Nonsense. Every issue of TV Guide is still extant. Every episode
> : of "The Tonight Show" is extant at New York's Museum of Broadcast
> : Communications. It'd be a one- or two-day research project to figure
> : out the five or six times Zsa Zsa Gabor was on The Tonight Show between
> : 1968 and 1970, and watch those tapes.
Not necessarily. A few years back I made an attempt to locate a 1966
episode of Jeopardy! on which my mother appeared. I discovered that most
television shows then were filmed, not taped, and for the most part the
films were not saved. (Unfortunately, the episode I had wanted was not
available.)
/Glenn Weinstein
Chris Grace
Ruby Wax (One of the writers of 'Absolutely Fabulous') did an interview
with Zsa Zsa Gabor (Well, it appeared to be an expedition around SoCal
actually).
In the conversation it came up that one of the dogs that Z.Z.G. breeds had
in fact bitten her husband on the penis.
Ruby Wax tried to elucidate, specifically how the dog got access to the
penis, so to speak.
ZZG Uttered this classic line:
"I don't know darlink, I don't know anything about my Husband's Penis"
I was not videoing this, but will make sure I video the show next week,
just in case.
--
Chris 'Fufas' Grace Transdata Corporation Ltd Auckland NZ
IWNPA I will not post Acronyms. I will not post Acronyms IWNPA
demos...@slip.net
routinely wiped to save on this 2 inch wide product. Steve Allen has
been outspoken about the fact that most of his early stuff is gone
forever...what a shame.
Film is a different deal...many kinescopes (filmed from a TV) survive.
On 17 Feb 1996 20:56:58 -0800, sno...@shellx.best.com (snopes) wrote:
:Glenn Weinstein (wein...@hgc.edu) wrote:
:
:> Not necessarily. A few years back I made an attempt to locate a 1966
:> episode of Jeopardy! on which my mother appeared. I discovered that most
:> television shows then were filmed, not taped, and for the most part the
:> films were not saved.
:
: I'm curious about the Manderian leap of logic being made here: because
:
snopes
> But seriously (or almost so), most, if not all, of the Carson
> era of the Tonight Show was *not* live television. The episodes
> were taped *and* archived.
But the first ten years' worth were subsequently destroyed.
> Where do you think those dreary "highlights" specials come from?
From post-1971 shows, and from the few clips of earlier shows that
someone made an effort to preserve.
- snopes
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| NOTE: This article contains an amount of feathers not exceeding that |
| allowable by law. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Angus Johnston
> >For your scenario to have happened, he would have had to have
> >heard it from someone else, not said a word about it to anyone,
> >then that night during Johnny Carson, laugh like crazy until I
> >asked him what was funny, and tell me the story as if it had
> >just happened. That is nuts.
>
> His buddy at school suggested, "Next time numb nuts is in the bathroom
> when Carson is on, start laughing like crazy, when he comes out tell
> him this story about Zsa Zsa and her pussy. My brother pulled this on
> our Mom."
Or, even simpler: Brother's buddy tells him the story. A couple days
later, brother is watching the Tonight Show, laughing at something
completely unrelated. Numbnuts walks in, wants to know what's so funny,
and brother, irritated, feeds the little creep the story to shut him up
and tease him.
Again, I draw your attention to Matt Groening's pioneering work in this
area.
--
Angus Johnston
Michael Heinz
>A moose just flew by my window. Not months or years ago. Just now.
>Believe me?
Did it bite your sister?
---------------------------
mhe...@ssw.com
You know, when you spend a few months floating around in space on the back of
a really big guy, cleaning his feet and ears, you learn to close your eyes and
say 'This just isn't happening to me.' - The Tick
Michael Heinz
>In article <brian_jones-12...@169.137.7.17>, brian...@ajc.com wrote:
>> ObUL: Doesn't "Extra Virgin" mean they sacrificed another village cutie to
>> ensure quality?
>Don't be silly.
>You don't think they're killing the *cute* virgins, do you?
I heard there >are< no qute virgins?
Mike "At least, not for long..." Heinz
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear God, if I live through this, I swear I'll
never try to troll again!
Michael Heinz, mhe...@ssw.com
Drew Lawson
> I don't know whether the Tonight Show
> was taped (more likely filmed) or broadcast live, and if it was
> broadcast live, at what point they switched to taping. I wonder
> if the film processing time could have been a problem if the show
> was done in the afternoon and broadcast that evening.
It was a bit before my time (or my time for watching late-night TV),
but I believe that the Tonight Show was previously taped several days
before broadcast. I remember this (or think I do) mainly because of
being told that it was changing.
This change was (I was told) in the late 70s(NL). I'm under the
impression that it coincided with the move to (back to?) California
from New York.
Can any TV weenies tell me whether I was misinformed?
Drew "This story was *so* lame . . . " Lawson
--
| If dreams were lightning,
Drew Lawson | thunder were desire,
dla...@aimnet.com | This old house would have burned down
| a long time ago
Patrick W. Fine
something that did not happen. He feels that because he says that he was told
this, then AFU has to accept what he is saying. Now he frustrated because it
will not.
In law, what his brother, if he exists, claims, is hearsay. It would not be
admitted into court, and the reason hearsay is excluded is that it is
inherently unreliable. Hearsay is an out of court statement offered for the
truth of the matter asserted. Not having the brother here, in the court of
AFU, does not allow to the opportunity to examine the brother's memory of the
event claimed. Claiming my brother heard, or saw, is no better then a FOAF.
When I was a kid, my brother, coming home late for dinner, claimed he had been
grabbed by a man and pulled into his car. (offer of candy, etc. Our local
version of the VAN MAN) He of course narrowly escaped. He recanted on the way
to the doctor, as my mother was going to have him examined to make sure he had
not been molested. She would not by the recant either. He got the exam. If
he had broke down and told that he had lied, I would still believe it had
happened, and it did not.
Patrick "But why would he lie?" Fine
Patrick W. Fine
>We still have live shows today, but usually just the news. Years ago
>on many talk shows, the commercials were even live which made for some
>really bizarre commercials. I don't know whether the Tonight Show
>was taped (more likely filmed) or broadcast live, and if it was
>broadcast live, at what point they switched to taping. I wonder
>if the film processing time could have been a problem if the show
>was done in the afternoon and broadcast that evening.
>
>Eric Johnson
Taping of the Tonight Show began during the reign of Jack Paar. However,
during that time and later with Carson, the network used the tapes over again.
Some Kinoscopes(sp) were made, and clips were perserved--like the famous Ed
Ames hatchet toss. The Tape of that is lost forever, as is Carson's opening
night. (An audio of that exists still though) Saddly, no one back then
thought they were doing anything really important. Carson has bemoaned the
loss on several of his annual lookbacks shows.
Patrick "Who is the real Jack Paar?" Fine
brian...@ajc.com
Eric Johnson) wrote:
> reader. The result is that you are either going to have to
> believe it based on someone's word or you are going to be wrong.
MOTTmmmf&*((^^&*%*%%***NO CARRIER
Brian "Let's motto this whole thread" Jones
--
brian...@ajc.com | "...you can't reason someone out of
If Kate Bush's music | a position they didn't reason
is like great sex, | themselves into..."
Tori Amos' music is | Rick Adams
like great masturbation| in alt.folklore.urban
brian...@ajc.com
dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) wrote:
> In article <brian_jones-13...@169.137.7.17>,
brian...@ajc.com wrote:
>
> > In article <4fpst1$o...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter
> > Eric Johnson) wrote:
> >
> > >[...] do you think everyone had younger brothers just as
> > > devious as he would have had to have been?
> >
> > MOTTO!
>
> I'm sorry, your entry in the MOTTO contest has been rejected
> on grounds of plagarism.
>
> The prior motto of, "Hey, this is my grandmother we're talking about"
> has been well documented.
I'm not falling into your troll. The UL where somebody's brother turns out
to be their grandmother has probably been done to death here, and you just
want me to reveal my newbiness by discussing it.
Brian "My nubileness, however, is legendary - not ulegendary" Jones
Jim Ellwanger
dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) wrote:
> It was a bit before my time (or my time for watching late-night TV),
> but I believe that the Tonight Show was previously taped several days
> before broadcast. I remember this (or think I do) mainly because of
> being told that it was changing.
>
> This change was (I was told) in the late 70s(NL). I'm under the
> impression that it coincided with the move to (back to?) California
> from New York.
>
> Can any TV weenies tell me whether I was misinformed?
Only slightly...from "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and
Cable TV Shows 1946-Present," sixth edition, by Tim Brooks and Earle
Marsh, page 1052:
"In May 1972 'The Tonight Show' moved permanently from New York to Burbank
(previously periodic telecasts were done from the West Coast), and for a
time after that taping was done a day before the show aired. Because so
much immediacy was lost, 'Tonight' returned to same-night taping in May
1974."
Jim "TV Weenies taste great with Couch Potatoes" Ellwanger
--
Jim Ellwanger's e-mail address is <trai...@nwu.edu> and his home page is at <http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~trainman/homepage.html>.
snopes
> It was a bit before my time (or my time for watching late-night TV),
> but I believe that the Tonight Show was previously taped several days
> before broadcast.
> Can any TV weenies tell me whether I was misinformed?
A few years after moving the show from NY to LA, (c. 1974 NL) Carson
did start taping the show _one day_ in advance to try to relieve the
pressure of having to crank out a daily show a few hours before air
time. That experiment did't last long.
- snopes
Martin Gilbert
Defence:
wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric Johnson) wrote:
>
> Absolute proof will probably never be available. We didn't have
> home VCRs back then. Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network
> would like to forget about it. Do you think they are going to
> replay the film (or tape) of the show? Of course not. The only
> evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it. And
> most of those who saw it are probably not going to be reading AFU
> at any time. It was almost 30 years ago -- if the average viewer
> then was 40, they are nearly 70 now and not your typical AFU
> reader. The result is that you are either going to have to
> believe it based on someone's word or you are going to be wrong.
As you can all see, it is a much improved variant of "it could have
happened therefore it must have happened". However, let the cry
go forth, and multiply, to the bounds of usenet: "citation!".
I thank you for your time. I now return you to the scheduled show,
Enid Blyton's critically acclaimed "A posteriori in a priory", starring
Gunther Burpus in the lead role.
Martin Gilbert
Andrew Reid
Angus Johnston <ang...@panix.com> wrote:
>jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) writes:
>
>> >For your scenario to have happened, he would have had to have
>> >heard it from someone else, not said a word about it to anyone,
>> >then that night during Johnny Carson, laugh like crazy until I
>> >asked him what was funny, and tell me the story as if it had
>> >just happened. That is nuts.
>>
>> His buddy at school suggested, "Next time numb nuts is in the bathroom
>> when Carson is on, start laughing like crazy, when he comes out tell
>> him this story about Zsa Zsa and her pussy. My brother pulled this on
>> our Mom."
>
>Or, even simpler: Brother's buddy tells him the story. A couple days
>later, brother is watching the Tonight Show, laughing at something
>completely unrelated. Numbnuts walks in, wants to know what's so funny,
>and brother, irritated, feeds the little creep the story to shut him up
>and tease him.
>
>area.
As long as we're listing the possibilities, there's always the
chance that Zsa-Zsa's line, "Would you like to pet my pussy",
did in fact occur, but Mr. Carson's response never did. But,
in such a circumstance, <mumble> million Americans would jump
straight to the obvious line. So the brother inferred the
punch line, cracked up, and told it *as though* it had happened,
even though it didn't.
This is, to me, more plausible than the "malicious tease"
scenarios. It disposes of the credulity-straining requirement
of the story circulating *before* Gabor's appearance on the show.
I am assuming that Zsa-Zsa Gabor was, in fact, a guest
on the "Tonight Show" on the night in question, and that the guy
(Eric Johnson? I've lost track of the thread's origins...)
who's claiming this happened to him is not so thick as to believe
that it could have happened in Zsa-Zsa's absence. Notice that
the particular accent and personality of Zsa-Zsa is one of the
telltale folkloric "invariant details" of this one.
By way of plausibility cites, I refute Groening, and suggest
Robin Williams' vintage stand-up routine, "Reality, what a concept",
specifically: "Now, here's a joke for all you psychics in the
audience. <long pause> <audience laughter> We know who we are."
Andrew "" Reid
(Epenthetic for psychics)
Patrick W. Fine
Johnson) wrote:
>It was a bit before my time (or my time for watching late-night TV),
>but I believe that the Tonight Show was previously taped several days
>before broadcast. I remember this (or think I do) mainly because of
>being told that it was changing.
>
>This change was (I was told) in the late 70s(NL). I'm under the
>impression that it coincided with the move to (back to?) California
>from New York.
The show was taped the day of showing. I remember hearing on the 10:00 pm
news that Jack Paar had walked off the Tonight Show that Night. Then at 10:30
I got to see him walk off--it was the famed WC joke. This was CST, not EST
where it played at 11:30. Actually though, the show played at 11:15 in some
places. There was a fifteen minute segment that featured Hugh Downs and the
band leader, and then at 11:30 they introduced Jack. Carson had this too,
when he first went on the air. The program ran for 1:45. They did it so
smaller markets that only had 15 news programs could keep their viewers. In
Minneapolis, they pulled the first 15 minutes and ran it after the Paar part
of the show ended. Would have been hard to do without Tape.
Patrick "TV Weenie--hey I resemble that remark" Fine
John Simutis
: Only slightly...from "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and
: Cable TV Shows 1946-Present," sixth edition, by Tim Brooks and Earle
: Marsh, page 1052:
: "In May 1972 'The Tonight Show' moved permanently from New York to Burbank
: (previously periodic telecasts were done from the West Coast), and for a
: time after that taping was done a day before the show aired. Because so
: much immediacy was lost, 'Tonight' returned to same-night taping in May
: 1974."
I believe it also was true that part of the time before the move to
California, the show was sent, on tape, to the west coast by air for
showing the next night. Thus the Left Coast saw Friday's show on Monday,
Monday's show on Tuesday etc.
snopes
> As long as we're listing the possibilities, there's always the
> chance that Zsa-Zsa's line, "Would you like to pet my pussy",
> did in fact occur, but Mr. Carson's response never did.
More likely, I suspect, is that this exchange started out life as a joke
and sometime later was attributed to Johnny Carson because he was the most
famous person likely (in the public's mind) to have said something like
that. Once the quip was credited to Johnny, it was only a short step to
people's claiming they actually remembered hearing him say it.
Zsa Zsa did once show up on "The Tonight Show" talking about a skirt of
hers that was so short "you could see clear to Honolulu." Johnny's
response was something along the lines of, "I'm not even going to touch
that one."
> It disposes of the credulity-straining requirement of the story circulating
> *before* Gabor's appearance on the show.
Not so credulity-straining. It if started out as a joke and was attributed
to Johnny because it sounded like something he was likely to say,
eventually people would start replacing the "starlet" role with the name
of a woman likely to have uttered the straight line. Zsa Zsa was the
prototypical pampered Hollywood celebrity of the era; the one most likely
to have shown up for an appearance on a talk show with her cat in tow.
As time went by, her role was assigned to other starlets.
> Notice that the particular accent and personality of Zsa-Zsa is one of
> the telltale folkloric "invariant details" of this one.
Actually, the identity of the starlet is one of the telltale folkloric
variant details. This story has been told about Zsa Zsa Gabor, Racquel
Welch, Ann-Margaret, Dyan Cannon, and Farrah Fawcett, among others.
The younger the teller of the story, the more recent the starlet.
- snopes
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes is manufactured and packaged under strict sanitary conditions. |
| Apply a small quantity. Adjust amount for individual need. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Walter Eric Johnson
: In article <4g41th$g...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric Johnson) wrote:
: > I don't know whether the Tonight Show
: > was taped (more likely filmed) or broadcast live, and if it was
: > broadcast live, at what point they switched to taping. I wonder
: > if the film processing time could have been a problem if the show
: > was done in the afternoon and broadcast that evening.
: It was a bit before my time (or my time for watching late-night TV),
: but I believe that the Tonight Show was previously taped several days
: before broadcast. I remember this (or think I do) mainly because of
: being told that it was changing.
: This change was (I was told) in the late 70s(NL). I'm under the
: impression that it coincided with the move to (back to?) California
: from New York.
It used to be not uncommon for shows to be broadcast live. Even
commercials were done live on the set! I've seen bloopers of
some that went wrong. I think that Ed McMhan (however you
spell his last name) was in some of them. These were commercials
that were broadcast over the air because they were done live.
I never had the impression that the Tonight Show was filmed much
in advance. My original impression was that it was live, but
that was just an impression and I could have easily been wrong
about that. I also had a strong impression that Ed Sullivan
was done live. Can anyone confirm or deny this (that it was
done live, not my impression of it)? I still remember when
the Beetles were on it. I couldn't see what the fuss was about,
but my cousin who lived in the city went nuts over them.
Eric Johnson
snopes
> Actually though, the show played at 11:15 in some places. There was a
> fifteen minute segment that featured Hugh Downs and the band leader, and
> then at 11:30 they introduced Jack. Carson had this too, when he first
> went on the air. The program ran for 1:45. They did it so smaller
> markets that only had 15 news programs could keep their viewers.
Uh, not quite. Back in the days when Johnny first took over the
show, 15-minute news programs were the standard. When some affiliates
started expanding to half-hour newscasts, they joined "The Tonight
Show" fifteen minutes into the broadcast and skipped Johnny's
opening monologue. When Johnny finally found out that yet another
major-market NBC affiliate (San Francisco, I think) was programming news
during the first quarter-hour of his show, he refused to come out of
his dressing room, and Ed McMahon did the first fifteen minutes of the
show in his place. As a result, the show's time slot was eventually
scaled back to 11:30 - 1:00.
- snopes
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This .sig contains natural ingredients and essential amounts of |
| vitamins and minerals. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Jennifer Mullen
dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) says:
>In article <96048.025...@psuvm.psu.edu>, Jennifer Mullen
><JSM...@psuvm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> In article <4g2it6$l...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric
>> Johnson) says:
>> I'm sorry - I'm not drunk enough to respond to this yet. Give me a
>> few days.
>Hell, if snopes can do it, I can do it.
>Jennifer, will you marry me?
I'm sorry, Drew. The answer is going to have to be 'no.' You missed
your opportunity by two days.
-Jennifer "now I'm just hungover (still) and really, really, cranky" Mullen
que...@psu.edu
http://198.106.163.249/~jen/
Richard W. Gabriel
If this has to do with the johnny carson/zsa zsa cat incident, I have seen
it. I saw it years ago on an anniversary special.
> Joachim Lous (ce...@cee.hw.ac.uk) wrote:
> : Quoth Walter Eric Johnson:
> : : There is also some difference between this and word of mouth that
> : : you seem to be ignorant of. His telling me of the incident was at
> : : the time it happened, not months or years later. To call this
> : : "word of mouth" implies a significant period of time between
> : : the incident and the telling of.
>
> : That's from your perspective. In this forum, YOU're the one trying
> : to convince US. You hearing it from him may or may not have been,
> : but YOU telling US what YOU have been TOLD is most definitely word
> : of mouth.
>
> : Doesn't mean we're accusing you or your brother of lying, it's
> : just that we can't be SURE without proof, which in this case,
> : if it is true, should be readily available.
>
> Absolute proof will probably never be available. We didn't have
> home VCRs back then. Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network
> would like to forget about it. Do you think they are going to
> replay the film (or tape) of the show? Of course not. The only
> evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it. And
> most of those who saw it are probably not going to be reading AFU
> at any time. It was almost 30 years ago -- if the average viewer
> then was 40, they are nearly 70 now and not your typical AFU
> reader. The result is that you are either going to have to
> believe it based on someone's word or you are going to be wrong.
>
> Eric Johnson
>
>
JoAnne Schmitz
>jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) wrote:
>>A moose just flew by my window. Not months or years ago. Just now.
>>Believe me?
>Did it bite your sister?
That's not funny. Moose bites can be pretty nasty, now, mind you.
JoAnne "the Northern Exposure moose is dead" Schmitz
Myles Paulson
>
>In law, what his brother, if he exists, claims, is hearsay. It would not be
>admitted into court, and the reason hearsay is excluded is that it is
>inherently unreliable. Hearsay is an out of court statement offered for the
>truth of the matter asserted. Not having the brother here, in the court of
>AFU, does not allow to the opportunity to examine the brother's memory of the
>event claimed. Claiming my brother heard, or saw, is no better then a FOAF.
>
>When I was a kid, my brother, coming home late for dinner, claimed he had been
>grabbed by a man and pulled into his car. (offer of candy, etc. Our local
>version of the VAN MAN) He of course narrowly escaped. He recanted on the way
>to the doctor, as my mother was going to have him examined to make sure he had
>not been molested. She would not by the recant either. He got the exam. If
>he had broke down and told that he had lied, I would still believe it had
>happened, and it did not.
>
>Patrick "But why would he lie?" Fine
Well, maybe he just wanted to be somewhere else instead of home for
dinner that night. Give him a break. I mean, he was 24 years old...
Myles Lilith made me do it Paulson
Myles Paulson |There is a lot more protein in a tall glass
xexr...@wackydoo.dialix.oz.au |of blood and milk than there is in your average
|average demitasse of grubs and berries.
|Paul Tomblin
Johan Braennlund
: It used to be not uncommon for shows to be broadcast live. Even
: commercials were done live on the set!
Speaking of live broadcasts vs. taping, why are almost all US shows
taped in advance nowadays? Are people just afraid of screwing up?
Over here (Sweden) quite a lot of stuff is done live, and sure
mistakes happen every now and then, but I still prefer the live shows
(for those with their minds in the gutter, that's _not_ what I meant).
--
| Johan Braennlund | I guess there's got to be someone who
| m94...@student.tdb.uu.se | doesn't have a witty remark in his .sig.
Judy Johnson
[much driv^H^H^Hstuff snipperized]
>I talked to my brother tonight. He remembers the incident well.
>Hopefully, he will have an internet connection where he lives one of
>these days and can tell you himself. Then, as if it makes a difference
>to people like you, you will have a first-person eyewitness to the
>event.
Eric, Eric, Eric...
You just don't get it, do you. You can get your brother on the net and
have him swear on an electronic stack of bibles and the vorification
panel at AFU still ain't gonna buy it. And some of us aren't neccesarily
implying that you and/or your brother are [gasp] LYING, but honestly
misremembering.
I recall, when I first read the Paul Newman in the Ice Cream Shop UL,
being milldly outraged that it was listed as such, because I was certain
that I had read it written as a first person experience in some magazine.
Thinking I would get some sort of finder's fee for coming up with actual
proof (Ha!), I searched out the magazine. Unfortunately, when I re-read
the column, I discovered it was, indeed, written in classic FOAF style.
Give up, dear, and get on with your life.
Judy "been there, done that" Johnson
Chuck Poe
>If this has to do with the johnny carson/zsa zsa cat incident, I have seen
>it. I saw it years ago on an anniversary special.
>> Joachim Lous (ce...@cee.hw.ac.uk) wrote:
>> : Quoth Walter Eric Johnson:
>> : : There is also some difference between this and word of mouth that
>> : : you seem to be ignorant of. His telling me of the incident was at
>> : : the time it happened, not months or years later. To call this
>> : : "word of mouth" implies a significant period of time between
>> : : the incident and the telling of.
Snip
>> Absolute proof will probably never be available. We didn't have
>> home VCRs back then. Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network
>> would like to forget about it. Do you think they are going to
>> replay the film (or tape) of the show? Of course not. The only
>> evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it. And
>> most of those who saw it are probably not going to be reading AFU
>> at any time. It was almost 30 years ago -- if the average viewer
>> then was 40, they are nearly 70 now and not your typical AFU
>> reader. The result is that you are either going to have to
>> believe it based on someone's word or you are going to be wrong.
>>
>> Eric Johnson
>>
>>
If you rent the video tape :"Johnny Carson his favorite moments,. 80's
& 90': The King of late night" you can see (and hear) Jane Fonda
telling Johnny that her son saw that "ZsaZsa" incident a few days ago.
Jane repeats the lines from the incident word for word getting a big
laugh embarrassing Carson. She then asks Carson if it was true....He
starts to stutter and then says... "No... I think I would have
recalled that." Then he smiles. So there is grounds to believe that
something happened between ZsaZsa and Carson.
Take it for what it's worth.
Chuck
Robert McGee
>If you rent the video tape :"Johnny Carson his favorite moments,. 80's
>& 90': The King of late night" you can see (and hear) Jane Fonda
>telling Johnny that her son saw that "ZsaZsa" incident a few days ago.
>Jane repeats the lines from the incident word for word getting a big
>laugh embarrassing Carson. She then asks Carson if it was true....He
>starts to stutter and then says... "No... I think I would have
>recalled that." Then he smiles. So there is grounds to believe that
>something happened between ZsaZsa and Carson.
Um, no. But there *is* grounds to believe that the always-droll
Mrs. Turner would have repeated a groundless UL just to get cheap
laffs.
Rob "I'm not Fonda Hanoi Jane" McGee
rmc...@worldbank.org | Dear one, my idol, god-like youth, if I could
rmc...@clark.net | but gaze upon your shoulders for one minute!
Washington, DC | --Lyudmila, in _A Petty Demon_ (F. Sologub)
Patrick W. Fine
>: In article <4g41th$g...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter
Eric Johnson) wrote:
>
>It used to be not uncommon for shows to be broadcast live. Even
>commercials were done live on the set! I've seen bloopers of
>some that went wrong. I think that Ed McMhan (however you
>spell his last name) was in some of them. These were commercials
>that were broadcast over the air because they were done live.
>
>I never had the impression that the Tonight Show was filmed much
>in advance. My original impression was that it was live, but
>that was just an impression and I could have easily been wrong
>about that. I also had a strong impression that Ed Sullivan
>was done live. Can anyone confirm or deny this (that it was
>done live, not my impression of it)? I still remember when
>the Beetles were on it. I couldn't see what the fuss was about,
>but my cousin who lived in the city went nuts over them.
>
>Eric Johnson
The shows were taped live. That is to say in real time. Once the tape
rolled, the show lived or died on what occurred. This was designed to keep
the show fresh. Those live ads tended to be the type that lent themselves to
that format. Polaroid photos were one, and Alpo Dog Food was another.
Ed or Doc would feed the dog, live on tape, to show how much dogs loved
Alpo. One clip that was shown for years afterwards was where the dog just
refused to eat the food, and finally, Ed was dying, and Johnny crawled over
and pretended to eat the food, and then started licking Ed's hand.
Patrick "wishing life came with an edit button" Fine
Phil Gustafson
>
>Drew "Montana --
> where the men are men,
> the women are women,
> and the sheep are nervous" Lawson
>
You misslept "Utah", and my reference here is U. Utah Philips himself, and
they don't come more voracious than he. And spelling it "Utah" leaves
room for a segue to "You can only get virgin wool from the sheep that can
run faster than the Mormons and the Republicans".
HTH.
Ph.
Walter Eric Johnson
: Eric, Eric, Eric...
: You just don't get it, do you. You can get your brother on the net and
: have him swear on an electronic stack of bibles and the vorification
: panel at AFU still ain't gonna buy it. And some of us aren't neccesarily
: implying that you and/or your brother are [gasp] LYING, but honestly
: misremembering.
Sometimes, you have to accept things based on the word of a witness.
A lot of it comes down to your impression about the reliability of the
witness -- are they lying, misremembering, ... . For example, not
too long ago, someone indicated that they did not believe you could
receive a second photo-radar citation before the first reaches you
by mail. I indicated that I knew of someone who received a third
before the first two arrived. If he wanted a name and address of the
person, or even the exact date and time of each citation, I could not
provide them. He would basically have to take my word that it
happened. And it really did happen. As far as the Johnny Carson
show, several things indicate to me that it did happen. The first
is the account on that night from my brother within a minute or
two after the occurrence. The second is that others reported the same
thing at the same time. I have a vague memory of it being discussed
at school the next day, but could be wrong about that.
Eric Johnson
Joseph Francis Nebus
>Jim Ellwanger (trai...@nwu.edu) wrote:
>: "In May 1972 'The Tonight Show' moved permanently from New York to Burbank
>: (previously periodic telecasts were done from the West Coast), and for a
>: time after that taping was done a day before the show aired. Because so
>: much immediacy was lost, 'Tonight' returned to same-night taping in May
>: 1974."
>I believe it also was true that part of the time before the move to
>California, the show was sent, on tape, to the west coast by air for
>showing the next night. Thus the Left Coast saw Friday's show on Monday,
>Monday's show on Tuesday etc.
This was indeed true for a while; I have somewhere an AP clipping
from September of 1966 in which Johnny Carson complained that his show was
bringing ($some impressive-for-1966-I-guess) into NBC, yet they were
unwilling to spend the money needed to send the New York video feed out to
the west coast for same-day transmission, instead opting for slower
(i.e. overnight) shipping of tapes or whatnot; he specifically complained
about how in California, on Mondays he'd be wishing everyone a good
weekend.
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George
but this is my favorite Johnnie Carson story:
It seems that Johnnie had the wife of one of the golf greats as a
guest and in the couse of their interview asked her if she did
anything to help her husband's golf game. She replied:
"Yes, before every tournament I kiss his balls."
To which Johnnie, with a very straight face replied.
"Boy, I'll bet that makes his putter rise!"
Hartmut Schmider
[...petting Zsa Zsa's pussy...]
s> More likely, I suspect, is that this exchange started out
s> life as a joke and sometime later was attributed to Johnny
s> Carson because he was the most famous person likely (in the
s> public's mind) to have said something like that. Once the
s> quip was credited to Johnny, it was only a short step to
s> people's claiming they actually remembered hearing him say it.
Well, I remember seing that joke in a mid-seventies soft porn of the
Kraut variety with the revealing title "Jodeln in der Lederhose"
(staring the late, but unsatisfactory German answer to Marilyn Monroe,
Ingrid Steeger). I think that predates the alleged Carson show,
doesn't it?
Hartmut "watching these things for research purposes" Schmider
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hartmut Schmider, Kemisk Lab. B, DTU - 207, 2800 Lyngby, Denmark
e-mail ha...@kvant2.klb.dtu.dk
Heilige Mutterschaft:
Jedes Volk muss schauen, dass es sich vermehrt, sonst ist es am
Schluss nur eine einzige Person, und diese kann keine Subventions-
antraege an die Europaeische Union, die wir alle so nicht gewollt
haben, stellen. (E. Jelinek)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Ian A. York
>
>laugh embarrassing Carson. She then asks Carson if it was true....He
>starts to stutter and then says... "No... I think I would have
>recalled that." Then he smiles. So there is grounds to believe that
>something happened between ZsaZsa and Carson.
Your grounds being that Carson denied it?
Ian "NOT a playboy millionaire, no sir" York
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
Bo Bradham
>George (geo...@digital.net) wrote:
>
>> It seems that Johnnie had the wife of one of the golf greats as a guest
>
> a guest on "The Tonight Show," especially without her husband along as
> well? Has Johnny ever been that hard up for guests that he's invited
> the unknown spouses of well-known people to be on the show?
>
Indeed. As it turns out the afu FAQ sez:
F. JC said to Jack Nicklaus' wife that her kissing his balls before a golf game
must "make his putter flutter." (Sometimes about Arnold Palmer.)
T.*Bo Bradham saw A. Palmer deny it on the _Tonight Show_ on 11 Oct 94.
On those Kermit Schaefer "Blooper" records there was a
re-creation of the alleged incident, with this cackly-voiced
woman saying "I wouldn't dream of letting him play in a
tournament without kissing his balls first." The canonical
"putter flutter" rejoinder was not, as I recall, included. AS I
heard it from my friends, the reply was supposed to have been
something like "Bet that makes his putter stand up" .
In the archive formerly known as cathouse there is a transcript
of Palmer's Tonight Show interview in which he tells his side of
the story. It goes a little something like this:
"Johnny asked me if she kisses my balls before I go to play, and I
said 'Heck, I don't even go to bed without pajamas.'"
For more details see:
http://www2.best.com/~debunk/celebrities/arnold_palmer_leno.html
Bo "that oughta hold the little bastards" Bradham
--
"Reality as we know it is
not exactly what I had in mind."
- Roy Blount, Jr.
snopes
> Sometimes, you have to accept things based on the word of a witness.
No, not really. Witnesses are correct sometimes, sure, but their
reliability has been shown to be so poor that other corroborative
evidence is required. Especially in a case such as this, where
corroborative evidence would surely exist if the claim were true.
> The first is the account on that night from my brother within a minute or
> two after the occurrence.
How do you know he told you about it "within a minute of two after the
occurrence" when you can't even demonstrate that it occurred at all?
"I know this is true because Jim told me it happened, and I know Jim
is telling the truth because he told me about it right after he claims
it happened" is faulty reasoning at its worst.
Ian A. York
Jennifer Mullen <JSM...@psuvm.psu.edu> wrote:
>In article <dlawson-1702...@dial-sc1-10.iway.aimnet.com>,
>dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) says:
>>
>>Jennifer, will you marry me?
>
>I'm sorry, Drew. The answer is going to have to be 'no.' You missed
>your opportunity by two days.
Yup, she already accepted me. Hey, snopes and Mandy, what was the name of
your honeymoon hotel again?
Ian "although I think I may also have proposed to Will" York
Jennifer Mullen
Johnson) says:
>Sometimes, you have to accept things based on the word of a witness.
Yes, this is true. You, however, are not a witness to the actual
incident: your brother may have been. You are a witness to the
retelling of the story by your brother.
>A lot of it comes down to your impression about the reliability of the
>witness -- are they lying, misremembering,
You've just hit the nail on the head and pounded it further into
the dead horse.
-Jennifer S. Mullen "WHEEEEEEE!" -Will Wheeler
que...@psu.edu
http://198.106.163.249/~jen/
TimPHunter
(Patrick W. Fine) writes:
>Taping of the Tonight Show began during the reign of Jack Paar. However,
>during that time and later with Carson, the network used the tapes over
>again.
> Some Kinoscopes(sp) were made, and clips were perserved--like the
famous
>Ed
>Ames hatchet toss. The Tape of that is lost forever, as is Carson's
opening
>night. (An audio of that exists still though) Saddly, no one back then
>thought they were doing anything really important. Carson has bemoaned
the \
^^^^^^^^^
>loss on several of his annual lookbacks shows.
>
This presumes, of course, that they WERE doing something "really
important." Or that they are NOW, for that matter. I have a hard time
thinking of television programming as "important."
--
Tim "editorial comment" Hunter
Jennifer Mullen
>Jennifer Mullen <JSM...@psuvm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>In article <dlawson-1702...@dial-sc1-10.iway.aimnet.com>,
>>dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) says:
>>>Jennifer, will you marry me?
>>I'm sorry, Drew. The answer is going to have to be 'no.' You missed
>>your opportunity by two days.
>Yup, she already accepted me. Hey, snopes and Mandy, what was the name of
>your honeymoon hotel again?
>Ian "although I think I may also have proposed to Will" York
Hey now! I don't remember this! Perhaps the three of us could
work something out...
-Jennifer "checking my abdomen for scars and radiographing myself
to ensure that both kidneys are still there" Mullen
"WHEEEEEEE!" -Will Wheeler, MFA
Walter Eric Johnson
: Glenn Weinstein (wein...@hgc.edu) wrote:
: > Not necessarily. A few years back I made an attempt to locate a 1966
: > episode of Jeopardy! on which my mother appeared. I discovered that most
: > television shows then were filmed, not taped, and for the most part the
: > films were not saved.
: I'm curious about the Manderian leap of logic being made here: because
: copies of "Jeopardy!" from 1966 are not available, copies of "The Tonight
: Show" must not be, either? Are you claiming that the disposal of filmed
: programming was an industry-wide standard practice, regardless of subject
: or content? Where did all the mid-60's footage from _The Ed Sullivan Show_
: come from, then?
For that matter, I understand that some episodes of Dr. Who were
wiped off the tapes so that the tapes could be reused.
Eric Johnson
Patrick W. Fine
m94...@sabik.tdb.uu.se (Johan Braennlund) wrote:
>Walter Eric Johnson (wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu) wrote:
>
>: commercials were done live on the set!
>
>taped in advance nowadays? Are people just afraid of screwing up?
>Over here (Sweden) quite a lot of stuff is done live, and sure
>mistakes happen every now and then, but I still prefer the live shows
>(for those with their minds in the gutter, that's _not_ what I meant).
>
she had never appeared before was she thought he was an asshole. Also, if you
live in California, you might not like watching Leno or Letterman at 8:30 at
night, when it is 11:30 in New York--we in the USA cover several time zones.
Moreover, a lot of performers need to be in bed at 11:30 for an early call
the next morning.
Lastly, it might be fun to watch performers in sitcoms go up on their lines
a few times, but it breaks the "four walls" and ruins the overall program.
Carol Brunette being the exception, as that was what made the show so darn
funny.
Patrick "being brought to you live, on tape" Fine
snopes
> It seems that Johnnie had the wife of one of the golf greats as a guest
Did you ever stop to wonder _why_ "the wife of a golf great" would be
a guest on "The Tonight Show," especially without her husband along as
well? Has Johnny ever been that hard up for guests that he's invited
the unknown spouses of well-known people to be on the show?
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| SNOPES: snopes comes from a spa town situated in the Mont Blanc region |
| of the French Alps. Snopes is naturally ebullient and under French law |
| can only be bottled at the source. The French Ministry of Health gave |
| its approval for the bottling of snopes in 1978. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
snopes
> For that matter, I understand that some episodes of Dr. Who were
> wiped off the tapes so that the tapes could be reused.
I understand that some episodes of Dr. Who were wiped off the
tapes so that the tapes would be watchable.
- snopes
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| WARNING: This article is not a spermicide or contraceptive. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Drew Lawson
> Drew Lawson <dla...@aimnet.com> wrote:
> >
> >Drew "Montana --
> > where the men are men,
> > the women are women,
> > and the sheep are nervous" Lawson
> >
> You misslept "Utah", and my reference here is U. Utah Philips himself, and
The version I knew in Provo was:
Utah -- where the women are women
and so are the men
Drew "but there *are* some sheep raised in near town" Lawson
--
| We've got two lives
Drew Lawson | one we're given
dla...@aimnet.com | and the other one we make
Arthur Goldstuck
>Ruby Wax (One of the writers of 'Absolutely Fabulous') did an interview
>with Zsa Zsa Gabor (Well, it appeared to be an expedition around SoCal
>actually).
>In the conversation it came up that one of the dogs that Z.Z.G. breeds had
>in fact bitten her husband on the penis.
Bite my Wax guest's tadpole?
Myles Paulson
In article <4gdf7h$r...@lori.albany.net>, Chuck Poe (Cp...@albany.net) writes:
>g_gab...@titan.sfasu.edu (Richard W. Gabriel) wrote:
>
>
>
>>If this has to do with the johnny carson/zsa zsa cat incident, I have seen
>>it. I saw it years ago on an anniversary special.
> Snip
>>> Absolute proof will probably never be available. We didn't have
>>> home VCRs back then. Johnny Carson, Zsha Zsha, and the network
>>> would like to forget about it. Do you think they are going to
>>> replay the film (or tape) of the show? Of course not. The only
>>> evidence you are ever going to get is from those who saw it. And
>>> most of those who saw it are probably not going to be reading AFU
>>> at any time. It was almost 30 years ago -- if the average viewer
>>> then was 40, they are nearly 70 now and not your typical AFU
>>> reader. The result is that you are either going to have to
>>> believe it based on someone's word or you are going to be wrong.
>>>
>>> Eric Johnson
I've got it! While these old guys are still around, why don't we
get them together and put them under hypnosis, and then get a group
of actors together with the oldtimers and workshop the lost shows
until we have a working video of what everyone agrees was exactly
what happened. Then we can get some brand-name actors to play Zsa
Zsa and Johnny and make some new shows to replace the lost ones.
Myles "But who to play Zsa Zsa and Johnny?" Paulson
Walter Eric Johnson
: snopes <sno...@shellx.best.com> writes:
: [...petting Zsa Zsa's pussy...]
: s> More likely, I suspect, is that this exchange started out
: s> life as a joke and sometime later was attributed to Johnny
: s> Carson because he was the most famous person likely (in the
: s> public's mind) to have said something like that. Once the
: s> quip was credited to Johnny, it was only a short step to
: s> people's claiming they actually remembered hearing him say it.
: Well, I remember seing that joke in a mid-seventies soft porn of the
: Kraut variety with the revealing title "Jodeln in der Lederhose"
: (staring the late, but unsatisfactory German answer to Marilyn Monroe,
: Ingrid Steeger). I think that predates the alleged Carson show,
: doesn't it?
Nope. Try late 60s or very, very early 70s.
Eric Johnson
snopes
> Hey, snopes and Mandy, what was the name of your honeymoon hotel again?
It's called "Mandy's parents' house," but I don't recommend it. The
proprietors are quite rude to newly-married men.
- snopes
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| All "snopes" posts are available at special quantity discounts when |
| purchased in bulk by corporations, organizations, and special- |
| interest groups. |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Glenn Weinstein
> snopes (sno...@shellx.best.com) wrote:
> : Glenn Weinstein (wein...@hgc.edu) wrote:
> : > Not necessarily. A few years back I made an attempt to locate a 1966
> : > episode of Jeopardy! on which my mother appeared. I discovered that most
> : > television shows then were filmed, not taped, and for the most part the
> : > films were not saved.
>
> : I'm curious about the Manderian leap of logic being made here: because
> : copies of "Jeopardy!" from 1966 are not available, copies of "The Tonight
> : Show" must not be, either? Are you claiming that the disposal of filmed
> : programming was an industry-wide standard practice, regardless of subject
> : or content? Where did all the mid-60's footage from _The Ed Sullivan Show_
> : come from, then?
Not to belabor an inconsequential point, but note that I said "Not
necessarily." That is not the same as saying "must not." The message I
was replying to (an excerpt from which I included in my posting) said
that one could confirm the Zsa Zsa story trivially, by checking the tape
of the show. I simply intended to point out that the tape MAY not be
available anymore, thus the UL MAY fall into the unprovable realm.
Furthermore, I claimed nothing regarding any "industry-wide standard
practice."
/Glenn Weinstein
Bale Jennifer A
: > >Drew "Montana --
: > > where the men are men,
: > > the women are women,
: > > and the sheep are nervous" Lawson
: > >
: > You misslept "Utah", and my reference here is U. Utah Philips himself, and
: The version I knew in Provo was:
: Utah -- where the women are women
: and so are the men
The version we use at Bryn Mawr (a women's college):
Bryn Mawr College:
Where the women are women and the men are nervous.
_the Howl_ humor magazine even has this on a shirt complete with a photo
of our president and Bill Clinton, taken when he visited two-three
years ago. She's at least two inches taller than he is.
Jenn "printed on a t-shirt: now there's voracity" Bale
alice faber
>In article <4gg9a7$k...@panix.com>, iay...@panix.com (Ian A. York) says:
>>Jennifer Mullen <JSM...@psuvm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>>In article <dlawson-1702...@dial-sc1-10.iway.aimnet.com>,
>>>dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) says:
>>>>Jennifer, will you marry me?
>>>I'm sorry, Drew. The answer is going to have to be 'no.' You missed
>>>your opportunity by two days.
>>Yup, she already accepted me. Hey, snopes and Mandy, what was the name of
>>your honeymoon hotel again?
>>Ian "although I think I may also have proposed to Will" York
>Hey now! I don't remember this! Perhaps the three of us could
^^^^^
>work something out...
May I be so bold as to suggest that you might possibly have miplessed four?
Alice "two four six eight" Faber
Phil Gustafson
>Carol Brunette being the exception, as that was what made the show so darn
>funny.
>
Ph.
EYL...@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu
In a former article we saw...
---begin former article---
From: sno...@shellx.best.com (snopes)
Subject: Re: Johnny Carson & Zsa Zsa
Date: 17 Feb 1996 09:46:39 -0800
Ted Frank (m...@Radix.Net) wrote:
> Every episode of "The Tonight Show" is extant at New York's Museum of
> Broadcast Communications.
Not unless they've made a tremendous discovery within the last few years
that I didn't hear about. All that remains of the pre-1972 "Tonight Show"
are a handful of complete shows and various assorted clips. The rest of
the tapes were destroyed at the behest of yet another short-sighted
network pennypincher.
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| WARNING: It is especially important not to read snopes articles during |
| the last 3 months of pregnancy unless specifically directed to do so by |
| a doctor because it may cause problems in the unborn child or compli- |
| cations during delivery. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
---end former article---
Yeah. They burned them to make more room in the warehouse - without
notifying Carson or Allen. But beyond that, the Broadcast museum does
not archive all the old shows -- it has selected episodes. For example,
they have about a dozen Letterman shows -- from the morning show through
the CBS show.
Jennifer Mullen
>In <96052.201...@psuvm.psu.edu> Jennifer Mullen <JSM...@psuvm.psu.edu>
>writes:
>>In article <4gg9a7$k...@panix.com>, iay...@panix.com (Ian A. York) says:
>>>Jennifer Mullen <JSM...@psuvm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>>>In article <dlawson-1702...@dial-sc1-10.iway.aimnet.com>,
>>>>dla...@aimnet.com (Drew Lawson) says:
DL>>>>> Jennifer, will you marry me?
JSM>>>> I'm sorry, Drew. The answer is going to have to be 'no.' You
JSM>>>> missed your opportunity by two days.
IN>>> Yup, she already accepted me. Hey, snopes and Mandy, what was the
IN>>> name of your honeymoon hotel again?
IN>>> Ian "although I think I may also have proposed to Will" York
JSM>> Hey now! I don't remember this! Perhaps the three of us could
JSM>> work something out...
AF> May I be so bold as to suggest that you might possibly have miplessed four?
I think that you did. I forgot about Drew. So, we have myself, Will
Drew, and Ian all taking part in a group marriage. But I absolutely
refuse to honeymoon in the mousehole.
J"did I mention that I'm never, ever drinking again?"M
-Jennifer S. Mullen "Pit the sexual drive of a male teenager and an
que...@psu.edu alien nympho against natural laws and I think
j...@powertie.org we all know which side would give!"
http://www.powertie.org/~jen/ --Nuke
David Moyce
>In law, what his brother, if he exists, claims, is hearsay. It would not be
>admitted into court, and the reason hearsay is excluded is that it is
>inherently unreliable. Hearsay is an out of court statement offered for the
>truth of the matter asserted. Not having the brother here, in the court of
>AFU, does not allow to the opportunity to examine the brother's memory of the
>event claimed. Claiming my brother heard, or saw, is no better then a FOAF.
Actually, here at the Surrogate Court of AFU (constituted under
authority of the Uniform Legendary Justice Act), we have a somewhat
higher threshhold than do the civil and criminal courts. There, under
one of the many exceptions to the hearsay rule, kid brother's
statement would probably be admissible as a "spontaneous statement"
that purports to describe an event witnessed just beforehand, made
while k.b. was "under the stress of excitement caused by such
perception" (i.e., doubled over with laughter). (See, e.g., Cal.
Evid. Code s. 1240.)
That just allows the statement in the door, though... doesn't reduce
the likelihood that the little scamp was just pulling a prank on his
clueless big brother.
David "and having successfully carried it off for mumbleteen years,
why would he stop now?" Moyce
oys...@wco.com
Practice random spelling and senseless acts of punctuation.
Lee Rudolph
Close enough for government work.
Lee "if you'll move your vernier, I'll adjust your micrometer" Rudolph
wma...@marshall.edu
> In article <4g41th$g...@news.tamu.edu>, wej...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Walter Eric Johnson) wrote:
>
>> I don't know whether the Tonight Show
>> was taped (more likely filmed) or broadcast live, and if it was
>> broadcast live, at what point they switched to taping. I wonder
>> if the film processing time could have been a problem if the show
>
> Can any TV weenies tell me whether I was misinformed?
>
My server takes forever to get these posts out, so forgive me if this has
been answered already.
Back in the early days of tv Jerry Lester had a late night show in the 11.30
slot, which was done live, from NYC.
In the mid 50s Steve Allen took over as host and renamed the program to The
Tonight Show. Still live.
A few years later Jack Paar took over as host.
In 1962 Johnny Carson took over and the show was still live until the
mid-60s. Video tape had been around for a while, but relatively expensive.
When the show was live it was kinoscoped for the west coast. Bascially that
was a special movie camera that was pointed at a monitor and filmed what was
shown. Kinoscope had several problems, one being the broadcast of the show
later came out like it was filmed with cheesecloth over the lens.
When tape was used the show was taped earlier in the evening, around 6 p.m.,
which is still the time its done in LA, which would be around 10 eastern.
Carson liked taping the show since the tape could be stopped and something
re-done, but mostly whatever was done on stage went out as if live.
Due to the expense of tape at the time, early shows are no more. They were
stored away by NBC for a few years then reused. (Once tape was used kinoscope
went to that great stage in the sky). :)
Joe Mackey
Huntington, WV
Patrick W. Fine
ph...@panix.com (Phil Gustafson) wrote:
>Patrick W. Fine <imf...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>Carol Brunette being the exception, as that was what made the show so darn
>>funny.
>>
>Actually, she's sort of a redhead.
>
>
In truth, if I had been trying to spell brunette, I would have gotten Carol's
last name right. (Burnette???? Burnett??? Smith???)
Patrick(sp) "I'll just go on living" Fine
Chris Fishel
> [Re: Date of the alleged Carson/Zsa Zsa incident.]
> Nope. Try late 60s or very, very early 70s.
>
The following may be relevant:
From _The Book of Lists_'s "10 Outrageous Moments of US TV Censorship":
-The Tonight Show (1969): Dick Cavett, substituting for Johnny Carson
as host, was blipped when he kiddingly mentioned a rumor that Johnny was
out with "Portnoy's complaint" instead of the flu. On the same show,
the word "diarrhea" was deleted by NBC censors.
[End of blatant copyright violation]
Thus, around the time that you claim the Johnny/Zsa Zsa bit happened,
NBC was capable of censoring the show (whether because it was taped
ahead of schedule or on some sort of electronic delay). And since they
were clearly willing to cut stuff less risque than cracks about
petting someone's pussy, it's hard to see how Carson's alleged remark
to Zsa Zsa would have gotten through to broadcast.
Chris "Not that I expect this appeal to reason to work better than
anyone else's has" Fishel
Barbara Hamel
: Yup, she already accepted me.
Conratulations, Ian. Most women want to change a guy; nice to see you
found one who'd accept you for who you are.
: Hey, snopes and Mandy, what was the name of your honeymoon hotel again?
The Bates Motel.
Barbara "I hear Master Bates will be on hand" Hamel
--
Barbara Hamel | Being implicated in grand theft has a way of
bha...@fas.harvard.edu | straining even the most intimate friendships.
| - Paul Kunkel
Patrick W. Fine
sno...@shellx.best.com (snopes) wrote:
>Patrick W. Fine (imf...@primenet.com) wrote:
>
>> Actually though, the show played at 11:15 in some places. There was a
>> fifteen minute segment that featured Hugh Downs and the band leader, and
>> then at 11:30 they introduced Jack. Carson had this too, when he first
>> went on the air. The program ran for 1:45. They did it so smaller
>> markets that only had 15 news programs could keep their viewers.
>
> Uh, not quite. Back in the days when Johnny first took over the
> show, 15-minute news programs were the standard. When some affiliates
> started expanding to half-hour newscasts, they joined "The Tonight
> Show" fifteen minutes into the broadcast and skipped Johnny's
> opening monologue. When Johnny finally found out that yet another
> major-market NBC affiliate (San Francisco, I think) was programming news
> during the first quarter-hour of his show, he refused to come out of
> his dressing room, and Ed McMahon did the first fifteen minutes of the
> show in his place. As a result, the show's time slot was eventually
> scaled back to 11:30 - 1:00.
>
> - snopes
Seldom, if ever would I argue with you. However, in Minneapolis, the local
affiliates had 30 minute news blocks in the late 50's. Fifteen minutes of
news. A five minute weather show and then a 10 minute sports program. I
started watching Jack Paar in 1959 and well remember his monologues at the
start of his show, as well as Johnny's from the very beginning.
Now, that is not to say that Jack Paar might have done what you are
referring to prior to my getting my own tv, but if you are correct, and god
knows you might be, then in Minneapolis at least, they had to get the network
feed, tape it locally, delay it 15 minutes and then start the broadcast.
Patrick "I have been wrong before" Fine
>
>+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| This .sig contains natural ingredients and essential amounts of |
>| vitamins and minerals. |
>+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
Patrick W. Fine
I will still argue that the Tonight show was taped even before Carson took
over. In 1961 or 1962, Steve Allen did a show from Hollywood and Vine, and
was produced by Westinghouse. The show was taped and played normally a few
days after taping. Allen loved video tape and played with it on his show.
For weeks he would try little skits where he would walk into a room backward
and put on clothing, and then run the tape backwards, often with very funny
results.
Patrick
Walter Eric Johnson
: was produced by Westinghouse. The show was taped and played normally a few
: days after taping. Allen loved video tape and played with it on his show.
: For weeks he would try little skits where he would walk into a room backward
: and put on clothing, and then run the tape backwards, often with very funny
: results.
What you are arguing here is that tape was available at that time. You
have presented no argument that tape was used for the Tonight Show.
Eric Johnson
snopes
> And since they were clearly willing to cut stuff less risque than cracks
> about petting someone's pussy, it's hard to see how Carson's alleged
> remark to Zsa Zsa would have gotten through to broadcast.
Exactly. Carson's 1966 comment about his having "done more for birth
control than Enovid" prompted a *front-page* column by Dorothy Kilgallen
about his tastelessness. Yet Carson's alleged remark to Ms. Gabor a few
years later apparently didn't even merit a mention in the papers.
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| TAMPER RESISTANT: Do not read this article if header is open or damaged. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Patrick W. Fine
Other than in previous notes. Such as the 10:00pm news announced that Jack
Paar walked off his show, and then later that night seeing him walk off. This
was over the WC joke.
Patrick
Russ Arcuri
> Thus, around the time that you claim the Johnny/Zsa Zsa bit happened,
> NBC was capable of censoring the show (whether because it was taped
> ahead of schedule or on some sort of electronic delay). And since they
> were clearly willing to cut stuff less risque than cracks about
> petting someone's pussy, it's hard to see how Carson's alleged remark
> to Zsa Zsa would have gotten through to broadcast.
>
> Chris "Not that I expect this appeal to reason to work better than
> anyone else's has" Fishel
I think this is the strongest evidence against the alleged incident ever
happening. It would really be quite impossible for anyone to slip a
comment like that into the show and not have it cencored before broadcast,
especially in the 60s or 70s. Now, having restated what you just said, my
work here is done.
Russ "Hoping that two people saying the same thing will spark some
reasonable doubt in Eric's head" Arcuri
snopes
> I think this is the strongest evidence against the alleged incident ever
> happening. It would really be quite impossible for anyone to slip a
> comment like that into the show and not have it cencored before broadcast,
> especially in the 60s or 70s.
Not necessarily. It's possible that a word or two was merely bleeped,
but the audience could still tell from the context of the sentence and/or
the lip movement of the speaker what was actually said.
In this particular case, however, I don't see any way the censors could
have adequately eliminated the crudeness of the joke short of cutting
the whole exchange out of the tape.
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes was laboratory tested for safety. As with any other poster, |
| should irritation or discomfort result, discontinue reading immediately. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
snopes
> What you are arguing here is that tape was available at that time. You
> have presented no argument that tape was used for the Tonight Show.
I'll do it for him, then.
"Tonight" (hosted by Steve Allen from Sep. 1954 to Jan. 1957) was done
live (although Allen may have used occasional taped segments). "The
Jack Paar Show" (which ran from July 1957 to March 1962) started out
live and switched to same-day taping not long afterwards. After NBC
edited out Paar's "water closet" joke on February 10, 1960, Paar walked
off the show the next day in protest and stayed out for a month.
The "Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" was always taped, even in
its earliest days. It was never done as a live broadcast.
- snopes
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes is a wholesome fun snack for the entire family. Remember, young |
| children should be upright and supervised while eating. snopes should |
| only be served to children who are accustomed to solid foods. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
snopes
> I will still argue that the Tonight show was taped even before Carson took
> over.
You are correct. They switched from live shows to taped broadcasts a
few months into Jack Paar's reign (c. late 1957).
- snopes
snopes
> Seldom, if ever would I argue with you. However, in Minneapolis, the local
> affiliates had 30 minute news blocks in the late 50's. Fifteen minutes of
> news. A five minute weather show and then a 10 minute sports program. I
> started watching Jack Paar in 1959 and well remember his monologues at the
> start of his show, as well as Johnny's from the very beginning.
Well, these are the facts:
o From 10/2/62 to 1/1/67 the "Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" aired
from 11:15 PM to 1:00 AM.
o From October 1962 to February 1965, Johnny began his monologue when
the show started (i.e. 11:15 broadcast time).
o Johnny stopped doing the 11:15 - 11:30 segment in February of 1965;
Skitch Henderson and Ed McMahon covered the 11:15 - 11:30 slot
until January of 1967, and Johnny started his monologue at 11:30.
o The show was cut back to an 11:30 PM - 1:00 AM slot after 1/1/67,
with Johnny doing his monologue at the opening of the show from
then on.
So, if you were seeing Johnny's monologue prior to 1967, on a
station that ran a half-hour newscast at 11:00 PM, they must have
been delaying the feed somehow. Either that or your recall isn't
quite as clear as you might think.
- snopes
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| snopes is a mechanical device that exhibits elasticity according |
| to Hooke's Law. He is usually made of steel, brass or bronze. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Patrick W. Fine
sno...@shellx.best.com (snopes) wrote:
> So, if you were seeing Johnny's monologue prior to 1967, on a
> station that ran a half-hour newscast at 11:00 PM, they must have
> been delaying the feed somehow. Either that or your recall isn't
> quite as clear as you might think.
>
> - snopes
At the very least I am batting .500 on this topic.
Patrick "Still remember trying to explain Selma Diamond to his 9 year old
pals" Fine
Tony Lima
F1> Why doesn't somebody ask Zsa Zsa?
OK, Frank, I nominate you for the task. To which hospital
would you like the flowers sent? - Tony "watch out for the
left jab" Lima
* RM 1.31 2547 *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: tony...@toadhall.com (Tony Lima)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EYL...@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu
In a former article we saw...
---begin former article---
From: sno...@shellx.best.com (snopes)
Subject: Re: Johnny Carson & Zsa Zsa
Date: 17 Feb 1996 20:56:58 -0800
Glenn Weinstein (wein...@hgc.edu) wrote:
> Not necessarily. A few years back I made an attempt to locate a 1966
> episode of Jeopardy! on which my mother appeared. I discovered that most
> television shows then were filmed, not taped, and for the most part the
> films were not saved.
I'm curious about the Manderian leap of logic being made here: because
copies of "Jeopardy!" from 1966 are not available, copies of "The Tonight
Show" must not be, either? Are you claiming that the disposal of filmed
programming was an industry-wide standard practice, regardless of subject
or content? Where did all the mid-60's footage from _The Ed Sullivan Show_
come from, then?
- snopes
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Caution: Reading this .sig does not enable user to fly. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
---end former article---
The fact that the old tonight shows were burned years ago is very
well known. They burned them, like the old Jeopardies, to make room
in their warehouse. Most of the old film clips we see are from
'private collections or stuff that was accidentally saved. When the
Broadcast Museum did a retrospective on Steve Allen, there was no -
or almost no- Tonigith Show footage to use.
David A. Kaye
" I will still argue that the Tonight show was taped even before Carson took
" over.
It was indeed, but I don't know if it was taped for the East Coast
audience or not. However, being in San Francisco, I know for a fact that
the Jack Paar Show (aka Tonight Show) was taped because we always saw the
show a day late. Why? because NBC had only one circuit originating from
New York to the West Coast at the time, and 11:15 to 1:00am in New York
was 8:15 to 10:00pm here--right in the middle of prime time. If they had
fed the Tonight Show live they couldn't feed anything else. So, it was
taped and shown the next evening. Friday's show was shown here on Monday,
which was always a rerun because Jack Paar took Friday off.
" In 1961 or 1962, Steve Allen did a show from Hollywood and Vine, and
" was produced by Westinghouse.
There were a lot of taped shows in those days. Westinghouse's Mike
Douglas Show, Merv Griffin (both with Metromedia and Group W), the Woody
Woodbury Show, Joe Pyne, Paul Coates Interviews, etc. Metromedia and
Group W were the biggest for doing these since they owned stations which
weren't interconnected. (Metromedia is now Fox.)
--
(c) 1996 "We chased our pleasures here, dug out treasures
David Kaye there. Can you still recall the time we cried? Break
David A. Kaye
" The "Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" was always taped, even in
" its earliest days. It was never done as a live broadcast.
Not to be picky here, but yes it was. It was done live on New Year's Eve
when everyone would dress in tuxedos and the "NBC Orchestra", which was
usually a small brass band would be augmented to full orchestra size. New
Year's Eve was a big deal at NBC in those days and it was done live for
the East Coast on that day.
--
(c) 1996 pule: to whine or whimper
David Kaye
RW HANNU
(Patrick W. Fine) writes:
>>> Actually though, the show played at 11:15 in some places. There was a
>>> fifteen minute segment that featured Hugh Downs and the band leader,
and
>>> then at 11:30 they introduced Jack. Carson had this too, when he
first
>>> went on the air. The program ran for 1:45. They did it so smaller
>>> markets that only had 15 news programs could keep their viewers.
>>
>> Uh, not quite. Back in the days when Johnny first took over the
>> show, 15-minute news programs were the standard. When some affiliates
>> started expanding to half-hour newscasts, they joined "The Tonight
>> Show" fifteen minutes into the broadcast and skipped Johnny's
>> opening monologue. When Johnny finally found out that yet another
>> major-market NBC affiliate (San Francisco, I think) was programming
news
>> during the first quarter-hour of his show, he refused to come out of
>> his dressing room, and Ed McMahon did the first fifteen minutes of the
>> show in his place. As a result, the show's time slot was eventually
>> scaled back to 11:30 - 1:00.
I remember that the Duluth, Minnesota affiliate carried the first 15
minutes (from 10:15 to 10:30) because that was the only part of the show I
could stay up late enough to watch.
RW Hannu
Amanda Marie Marcotte
: I think that you did. I forgot about Drew. So, we have myself, Will
: Drew, and Ian all taking part in a group marriage. But I absolutely
: refuse to honeymoon in the mousehole.
: J"did I mention that I'm never, ever drinking again?"M
Aw, but I keep the place clean and I won't have any alcohol about.
-Mandy the Mighty Mouse
Brian Scearce
> Patrick W. Fine <imf...@primenet.com> wrote:
>> Carol Brunette being the exception, as that was what made the show so
>> darn funny.
> Actually, she's sort of a redhead.
There's a sort of sliding linguistic scale for hair color words:
BLONDE: no obvious (to me) etymology.
BRUNETTE: has obvious Latinate derivation.
REDHEAD: simple English compound word, but a valid word in its own right.
HAS BLACK HAIR: no single word for it, aside from ad hoc compounds like
"raven-haired". Ditto for white and gray.
These words describe the people with the hair, not the hair itself
(i.e. you don't say, "She's an auburn").
Is there some deep reason for this, or am I falling into that
Sapir-Whorf trap?
Brian "some people say I'm snotty, and maybe it's true" Scearce
--
Brian Scearce b...@best.com
Read, think, post -- do not alter this order.
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> When the Broadcast Museum did a retrospective on Steve Allen, there was
> no - or almost no - Tonigith Show footage to use.
The "Tonight Show" was always done live when Steve Allen was hosting it.
Consequently, there wouldn't be any footage of it unless someone made
a special effort to film/kinescope the shows and preserve them.
- snopes
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