Guinness Beer Legend?
Terry
offered a vegetarian friend Guinness Beer and he said he couldn't drink it.
He claims that long ago, the brewers cleaned out the brewing kettles and
found a bunch of dead rats. After cleaning the kettles, he claims, the next
batch of Guinness didn't taste right. So, they added beef to the brew and it
came out great, and beef has been an ingredient in Guinness since then. Has
anyone else heard of this legend?
David Nebenzahl
Can't say, but I can tell you that I once heard someone say (the late great Ed
Kassel of Tucson, a true mensch) that he was for sure a vegetarian "because
there's no meat in gin".
--
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Lee
Heard it. It's nonsense.
Guiness lists their ingredients on their web site:
water, barley, hops, and yeast.
Some think it's confusion about the finings used to purify beer.
Isinglass is made from the swim bladders of sturgeons.
It's added to the beer to cause yeast proteins to precipitate out.
The isinglass also precipitates out, so there's none in the keg.
Norm Soley
Well there are food purity laws in some places that limit the ingredients in
beer to water, hops, malt and yeast but I can't say for sure about Ireland.
Now I have heard that the "beechwood aged" claim for Budweiser is these
days accomplished by tossing some woodchips into the vats during brewing
that are later filtered out.
Lon Stowell
> Terry said:
>>
>>I heard what I think is a whopper today and am seeking confirmation. I
>>offered a vegetarian friend Guinness Beer and he said he couldn't drink it.
>>He claims that long ago, the brewers cleaned out the brewing kettles and
>>found a bunch of dead rats. After cleaning the kettles, he claims, the next
>>batch of Guinness didn't taste right. So, they added beef to the brew and it
>>came out great, and beef has been an ingredient in Guinness since then. Has
>>anyone else heard of this legend?
>
> Heard it. It's nonsense.
> Guiness lists their ingredients on their web site:
> water, barley, hops, and yeast.
>
> Some think it's confusion about the finings used to purify beer.
> Isinglass is made from the swim bladders of sturgeons.
...and other fishies. I'll be darned, only ran into the use
of the term isinglass as another name for the old mica windows
found in old stoves.
Lon Stowell
> "Terry" <terry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:BVIfb.2431$Bi2....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
>> I heard what I think is a whopper today and am seeking confirmation. I
>> offered a vegetarian friend Guinness Beer and he said he couldn't drink it.
>> He claims that long ago, the brewers cleaned out the brewing kettles and
>> found a bunch of dead rats. After cleaning the kettles, he claims, the next
>> batch of Guinness didn't taste right. So, they added beef to the brew and it
>> came out great, and beef has been an ingredient in Guinness since then. Has
>> anyone else heard of this legend?
>
> Well there are food purity laws in some places that limit the ingredients in
> beer to water, hops, malt and yeast but I can't say for sure about Ireland.
I would suspect that if the beer claims to be Irish, adding a
bit 'o the aulde sod might be considered appropriate.
Charles A Lieberman
"Norm Soley" <nso...@ac.ocitapmys_backwards> wrote:
> there are food purity laws in some places that limit the ingredients in
> beer to water, hops, malt and yeast but I can't say for sure about Ireland.
I could *more* readily believe beer purity laws are strict and strictly
enforced in Ireland (and Germany, and the Czech Republic) than in a
number of other places, including many US jurisdictions. If not by the
gov't, certainly by trade groups on the order of the Verace Pizza
Napoletana for that product.
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "I guess you can't guarantee supernatural
New York, New York, USA | phenomena." --Rian from Newfoundland
http://calieber.tripod.com/index.html cali...@bigfoot.com
TdN
> Approximately 10/4/03 20:55, Lee uttered for posterity:
> > Terry said:
> >>
> >>I heard what I think is a whopper today and am seeking confirmation. I
> >>offered a vegetarian friend Guinness Beer and he said he couldn't drink it.
> >>He claims that long ago, the brewers cleaned out the brewing kettles and
> >>found a bunch of dead rats. After cleaning the kettles, he claims, the next
> >>batch of Guinness didn't taste right. So, they added beef to the brew and it
> >>came out great, and beef has been an ingredient in Guinness since then. Has
> >>anyone else heard of this legend?
> >
> > Heard it. It's nonsense.
> > Guiness lists their ingredients on their web site:
> > water, barley, hops, and yeast.
> >
> > Some think it's confusion about the finings used to purify beer.
> > Isinglass is made from the swim bladders of sturgeons.
>
> ...and other fishies. I'll be darned, only ran into the use
> of the term isinglass as another name for the old mica windows
> found in old stoves.
The mica-isinglass was named after the fish bladder-isinglass (from
the Dutch "huizen" [sturgeon] + "blas" [bladder]), probably because
they actually look quite similar (striated, streaky, ranging from
translucent to transparent).
T "the dashboard's made of leather" dN
R H Draney
>
>The mica-isinglass was named after the fish bladder-isinglass (from
>the Dutch "huizen" [sturgeon] + "blas" [bladder]), probably because
>they actually look quite similar (striated, streaky, ranging from
>translucent to transparent).
>
>T "the dashboard's made of leather" dN
But is it gen-u-wine?...
R H "one's like snow, the other's more like milk" Draney
Matt the Lizard
"> > there are food purity laws in some places that limit the ingredients in
> > beer to water, hops, malt and yeast but I can't say for sure about
Ireland.
>
> I could *more* readily believe beer purity laws are strict and strictly
> enforced in Ireland (and Germany, and the Czech Republic)
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/ReinHeit.html
Explains the German purity law. American beer can have some sugar also
added during bottling called refining sugar.
www.crosby-baker.com
Matt
Djsj21643
>days accomplished by tossing some woodchips into the vats during brewing
>that are later filtered out.
This one is correct. When i worked for Ingersoll Rand in Houston in the '70's,
got the "cook's tour" of the whole brewery because our compressors moved the
ammonia to do all the cooling. we went through each and every section,
including the one where the beechwood chips resided.
Dave"burp me up another"Tooley
David Winsemius
>> ...and other fishies. I'll be darned, only ran into the use
>> of the term isinglass as another name for the old mica windows
>> found in old stoves.
>
> The mica-isinglass was named after the fish bladder-isinglass (from
> the Dutch "huizen" [sturgeon] + "blas" [bladder]), probably because
> they actually look quite similar (striated, streaky, ranging from
> translucent to transparent).
>
Glass that flows? Never.
Robert Schreuder
> Lon Stowell <LonDot....@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message news:<t0Yfb.499758$Oz4.348736@rwcrnsc54>...
> > Approximately 10/4/03 20:55, Lee uttered for posterity:
> > > Terry said:
> > >>
> > >>I heard what I think is a whopper today and am seeking confirmation. I
> > >>offered a vegetarian friend Guinness Beer and he said he couldn't drink it.
> > >>He claims that long ago, the brewers cleaned out the brewing kettles and
> > >>found a bunch of dead rats. After cleaning the kettles, he claims, the next
> > >>batch of Guinness didn't taste right. So, they added beef to the brew and it
> > >>came out great, and beef has been an ingredient in Guinness since then. Has
> > >>anyone else heard of this legend?
> > >
> > > Heard it. It's nonsense.
> > > Guiness lists their ingredients on their web site:
> > > water, barley, hops, and yeast.
> > >
> > > Some think it's confusion about the finings used to purify beer.
> > > Isinglass is made from the swim bladders of sturgeons.
> >
> > ...and other fishies. I'll be darned, only ran into the use
> > of the term isinglass as another name for the old mica windows
> > found in old stoves.
>
> The mica-isinglass was named after the fish bladder-isinglass (from
> the Dutch "huizen" [sturgeon] + "blas" [bladder]),
Interesting. Isinglass translates to 1) "vislijm" ("fish glue") 2)
"mica" in Dutch. "Huizen" is the noun plural of the singular "huis"
(house) in
Dutch. "Sturgeon" translates to "steur" in Dutch. "Bladder"
translates to "blaas" in Dutch. The relation with "isinglass"
with whatever word in Dutch is unclear (except ("glass" = "glas" in
Dutch).
Let's forget about Dutch regarding the origins of the word
"isinglass".
Robert "" Schreuder
David Brodbeck
"Norm Soley" <nso...@ac.ocitapmys_backwards> wrote in message
news:5sOfb.9590$r.14...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> Now I have heard that the "beechwood aged" claim for Budweiser is these
> days accomplished by tossing some woodchips into the vats during brewing
> that are later filtered out.
Budwieser Budvar uses big hunks of beech, not much of a difference
[1](though, Budvar is a better beer than USAian Bud).
[1]Michael Jackson's 'The Beer Hunter'
Dave 'not THAT Michael Jackson' Brodbeck
>
>
---
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Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 29/09/2003
Jim Everman
It's also part of the standard brewery tour for tourists or
interested locals here in Saint Louis. Those 'vats' are huge.. the
wood chips are fair sized also. Think shavings a quarter inch thick
and a couple inches wide.
If you happen to find yourself here some day give me a call (I'm in
the book) and I'll gladly take it one more time. The tour ends at AB's
private/public lounge where samples of all their products are
available. Free.
--
Jim Everman mailto:eve...@Anet-STL.com
http://webusers.Anet-STL.com/~everman/
Thomas Prufer
>Interesting. Isinglass translates to 1) "vislijm" ("fish glue") 2)
>"mica" in Dutch. "Huizen" is the noun plural of the singular "huis"
>(house) in Dutch.
>"Sturgeon" translates to "steur" in Dutch. "Bladder"
>translates to "blaas" in Dutch. The relation with "isinglass"
>with whatever word in Dutch is unclear (except ("glass" = "glas" in
>Dutch).
>Let's forget about Dutch regarding the origins of the word
>"isinglass".
Better check that "huizen" again...
I have a German catalog of pigments, binders and such that lists
"Hausenblase" and Russian "Salianski-Hausenblase".
They also say that "the new Russian government has greatly reduced the
quota for sturgeon. Therefore our Russian supplier Andrei Adreev has
greatly raised the price of 'Hausenblase'".
I haven't checked the online catalog at www.kremer-pigmente.com, but
the order numbers are 63100 and 63110. (They also have mica, but only
in flakes, not sheets, for use as pigments).
Surely this is isinglass, and it's not a large step from German
"Hausenblase" to Dutch "huizenblas".
Lee Rudolph
>the new Russian government has greatly reduced the
>quota for sturgeon.
What, "99% of everything" doesn't apply any more?
Lee "it's not just a crap idea, it's the law" Rudolph
Joseph Michael Bay
>http://hbd.org/brewery/library/ReinHeit.html
American beer can have whatever it wants! Because we
don't have no German "purity" fetishists telling us what
to do! Take that, Kaiser! WOOOO! YOU-ESS-AY! YOU-ESS-AY!
Seriously, German beer can have sugar added too, provided
it's a top-fermenting beer.
Also, Guinness stout as brewed in Ireland would be verboten
by ze Chermins, as it uses roasted barley.
Joe "will blather about beer for beer" BAy
--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ fhqwhgadshgnsdhjsdbkhsdabkfabkveybvf
Thomas Prufer
>What, "99% of everything" doesn't apply any more?
"We raise prices, you argue, so we give you a reason. What's your
problem?"
I went to the site, just out of curiosity. Here's the online stuff
quoted from the English-language catalog:
<http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/intl.catalog/ebindem02.htm#glues&watercolourbinders>
"The new government in Russia has limited sturgeon fishing, which has
raised prices for sturgeon glue. For the use of sturgeon glue in the
consolidation of paintings, compare Tatyana Petukhova and Stephen
Bonadies in Journal of the AIC (1993), 23-31. KREMER Pigments is the
sole distributeir for Andrei Andreev genuine Russian Sturgeon glue."
And if Genuine Russian isinglass glue isn't good enough for you:
" 63110 Salianski-Kremer isinglass glue
"Originally, sturgeon glue was made out of the bladder of the
sturgeon, which were caught in the rivers flowing into the Caspian Sea
and the Black Sea. Meanwhile, bladders of various other fish, mainly
from India and Brazil are also called sturgeon glue!
"In the places of origin, the bladders are taken out of the sturgeon,
cut lengthwise, dipped into hot water, the outer muscle layer and
blood removed and put up for drying.
"The largest amount of native collagen show bladders from caviar fish,
which qualitively are the best. This quality is called Salianski
sturgeon glue. Sturgeon glue has been used by Russian restaurators for
consolidation and as glue for a long time. Sturgeon glue has a higher
adhesion and lower viscosity than comparable animal products, such as
gelatine or rabbit skin glue.
"Put sturgeon glue into a glass or enamel container, cover with water
and let soften for several hours. Dump excess water, wring glue to
uniform consistency. Pour into double boiler and cover with fresh,
destilled water. Slowly heat to 60° C - stirring constantly - until
glue has solved, which depends on the amount of glue. Do not overheat
the glue! Remove from heat, and if necessary, strain through fine
cotton cloth. A conservative may be added at this time, but it is best
to prepare only the amount needed. Remaining solved glue may be kept
in the refrigerator for several days at 5-6° C (cold glue may harden,
however can be softened through heating).
"In case a plastifier is required, Russian restaurators add dark wild
flower honey to the glue - normaly the weight of the honey is equal to
the weight of the sturgeon glue."
Thomas "ok, it does violate the BOP, but I'm only quoting, warden"
Prufer
Joseph Michael Bay
>Budwieser Budvar uses big hunks of beech, not much of a difference
>[1](though, Budvar is a better beer than USAian Bud).
>[1]Michael Jackson's 'The Beer Hunter'
This still gives me the image of the pop singer wearing
a red bandana and holding a shaken-up can of beer against
his temple, ready to crack a tube.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Glass that flows? Never.
It isinglass, though.
David Brodbeck
"Juergen Nieveler" <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:Xns940CA624CED5...@nieveler.org...
> "David Brodbeck" <brod...@swgc.mun.ca> wrote:
>
> > (though, Budvar is a better beer than USAian Bud).
>
> than USAian Bud ;-)
>
I remember talking to a rep from Labatt's (they make the licensed brewed
Canadian version of USAian Bud) and hearing him talk about the Czech Szaaz
hops they had shipped in every so often to their London, Ontario brewery in
order to make Bud. I asked him if I could have some as they clearly were
not using them...
Dave 'Beer of Kings' Brodbeck
Ben Zimmer
>
> On 6 Oct 2003 02:07:51 -0700, r...@mpi.nl (Robert Schreuder) wrote:
>
> >Interesting. Isinglass translates to 1) "vislijm" ("fish glue") 2)
> >"mica" in Dutch. "Huizen" is the noun plural of the singular "huis"
> >(house) in Dutch.
> >"Sturgeon" translates to "steur" in Dutch. "Bladder"
> >translates to "blaas" in Dutch. The relation with "isinglass"
> >with whatever word in Dutch is unclear (except ("glass" = "glas" in
> >Dutch).
> >Let's forget about Dutch regarding the origins of the word
> >"isinglass".
>
> Better check that "huizen" again...
>
> I have a German catalog of pigments, binders and such that lists
> "Hausenblase" and Russian "Salianski-Hausenblase".
>
>
> Surely this is isinglass, and it's not a large step from German
> "Hausenblase" to Dutch "huizenblas".
The OED etymology for "isinglass" is:
[Supposed to be a corruption or imperfect imitation of an
obs. Du. _huisenblas_ (Kilian _huysenblase_, _huysblas_),
Ger. _hausenblase_ isinglass, lit. 'sturgeon's bladder':
see HAUSEN and HUSO.
No English forms approaching the Du. more closely have
been found, so that, if this was the source, the
perversion of the name would seem to have been made at
its first adoption.]
Early modern Dutch _huys_ and modern German _hausen_ both derive from
Old High German _hűso_ ('great sturgeon').
Burroughs Guy
> On 6 Oct 2003 12:50:23 -0400, lrud...@panix.com (Lee Rudolph) wrote:
>
> >What, "99% of everything" doesn't apply any more?
>
> "We raise prices, you argue, so we give you a reason. What's your
> problem?"
*whoosh*
--
Burroughs Guy
I knew the MCP when it was just a chess program.
David Winsemius
> David Winsemius <dwin$emiu$@fnord.comcast.net> writes:
>
>>TdN wrote in news:314a4ba6.03100...@posting.google.com:
>
>>>> ...and other fishies. I'll be darned, only ran into the use
>>>> of the term isinglass as another name for the old mica windows
>>>> found in old stoves.
>>>
>>> The mica-isinglass was named after the fish bladder-isinglass (from
>>> the Dutch "huizen" [sturgeon] + "blas" [bladder]), probably because
>>> they actually look quite similar (striated, streaky, ranging from
>>> translucent to transparent).
>>>
>
>>Glass that flows? Never.
>
> It isinglass, though.
>
Is two.
Dr H
As regards Guinness, the story is bullshit. There have, however, been
at various times and places, various beers and ales brewed with the
addition of animal protein -- meat -- of various kinds. Charlie Papazian
cites one such recipe using chicken ("cock ale") in his classic, _The
[New] Joy of Homebrewing_. I have several recipe examples dating from
US colonial days, as well.
But Guinness... no. If you want any beef (or rat) there, you'll have to
add it yourself.
Dr H
Dr H
On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Lee wrote:
}Heard it. It's nonsense.
}Guiness lists their ingredients on their web site:
}water, barley, hops, and yeast.
}
}Some think it's confusion about the finings used to purify beer.
}Isinglass is made from the swim bladders of sturgeons.
}It's added to the beer to cause yeast proteins to precipitate out.
}The isinglass also precipitates out, so there's none in the keg.
Yeah, except isinglass -- or finings of any kind -- aren't typically
used in stouts and other "black" beers. Clarity isn't as big an
issue with opaque brews, so the 'clearing' is generally accomplished
through cold conditioning or, more recently, cold filtration.
Dr H
Dr H
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Juergen Nieveler wrote:
}"David Brodbeck" <brod...@swgc.mun.ca> wrote:
}
}> (though, Budvar is a better beer than USAian Bud).
}
}Which doesn't say much, of course - pure spring water is a better beer
}than USAian Bud ;-)
Not if what you want is an American Light Lager -- but that's for
another newsgroup...
Dr H
Dr H
At Anheuser Busch, they're Beechwood slats, added to the cold conditioning
tanks, after brewing.
Dr H
Dr H
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, David Brodbeck wrote:
}
}"Juergen Nieveler" <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote in message
}news:Xns940CA624CED5...@nieveler.org...
}> "David Brodbeck" <brod...@swgc.mun.ca> wrote:
}>
}> > (though, Budvar is a better beer than USAian Bud).
}>
}> Which doesn't say much, of course - pure spring water is a better beer
}> than USAian Bud ;-)
}>
}I remember talking to a rep from Labatt's (they make the licensed brewed
}Canadian version of USAian Bud) and hearing him talk about the Czech Szaaz
}hops they had shipped in every so often to their London, Ontario brewery in
}order to make Bud. I asked him if I could have some as they clearly were
}not using them...
}
}Dave 'Beer of Kings' Brodbeck
AB actually uses a mixture of 10-12 hop varieties in Bud, selected from
a "palette" of 17. The idea is to get a blend that is /not/ distinctive,
so that the beer tastes the same with every batch, regardless of the
current availability of particular hop varieties.
BTW, Budvar lifted AB's "king of beers" slogan for their Budvar --
AB had been using it for two decades before Budvar came along.
Dr H