Bathtubs and Bullets
piem...@hotmail.com
scratched my head over the angst some folks here feel at this dreadful act,
perhaps I'm asking to be mistreated-- but I have a question for the
professional skeptics here.
I've several times seen references to people in urban combat zones who put
their children to bed in the bathtub, so that they won't be hit by random
gunfire. Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night in an attempt
to avoid premature perforation, I'm disposed to believe this story. But is
it true? A poster on one of the gun nut groups (and I wear that label
proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
in bathtubs actually exists?
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Bruce Tindall
> Apart
>from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
>in bathtubs actually exists?
Well, Clint Eastwood's character in "High Plains Drifter" was shot
about a dozen times at point-blank range while soaking in the bath, and
he didn't suffer a scratch. On the other hand, he was a gho*($#*#((#
*(#*$
NO SPOILER
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Sven David Holmans
>I've several times seen references to people in urban combat zones who put
>their children to bed in the bathtub, so that they won't be hit by random
>gunfire. Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night in an attempt
>to avoid premature perforation, I'm disposed to believe this story. But is
>it true? A poster on one of the gun nut groups (and I wear that label
>from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
>in bathtubs actually exists?
Thank goodness my bath is metal. I shall now be safe if the balloon goes
up. Many people have plastic baths so the warzone tip should not be
taken by those people.
Apparently some people in the north of England used to keep coal in the
bath. Presumably it would be too time consuming to remove the coal and
hunker down if hostilities were imminent. Mind you there have not been
enough recent pitched battles involving guns in the north to find anyone
who could attest to this difficulty.
Only one adult would be able to fit in a normal sized bath, so what
would families do? Perhaps if you had two baths you could have hubby and
wifey lying on top of each other in one bath and the children piled high
in another. That is if they had a house with two baths.
Perhaps there will now be a rush on steel baths in Yugoslavia.
David "cancelling the shower order" Holmans
--
When a prince has the goodwill of the people
he must not worry about conspiracies; but when
the people are hostile and regard him with hatred he must
go in fear of everything and everyone - Machiavelli
Becca Ward
> I've several times seen references to people in urban combat zones who put
> their children to bed in the bathtub, so that they won't be hit by random
> gunfire. Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night in an attempt
> to avoid premature perforation, I'm disposed to believe this story. But is
> it true? A poster on one of the gun nut groups (and I wear that label
> proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
> from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
> in bathtubs actually exists?
A quick search thru news accounts indicates that people believe it
happens, some people may actually sleep in bathtubs as an advance guard
against gunfire, and some people actually in the midst of gunfire (or the
threat thereof) have sheltered in a bathtub. I have not found an instance
where someone actually had a bullet hit the bathtub rather than the
person.
There certainly seems to be a belief that bathtubs provide protection
against bullets: As reported by the Associated Press during and after the
"Web site as ab*rti*n hit list" trial, some doctors testified "they lived
in constant fear, used bodyguards and bulletproof vests, and instructed
their children to crouch in the bathtub if they heard gunfire."
Diego Bunuel, "Drug wars hold residents hostage in Liberty City," Ft.
Lauderdale, Florida, _Sun-Sentinel,_ December 30, 1998: "Some of Liberty
City's pregnant women sleep in their bathtubs while some elderly people
make their beds on the floor for fear bullets will fly through their
windows at night, community leaders say. . . ."Hardening the Nutcracker In
an inner-city school, the Christmas classic gets a streetwise makeover,"
_Time Magazine,_ December 21, 1998, Vol. 152 No. 25: In reporting on a
presentation of the _Nutcracker_ in an elementary school in Cleveland,
Teachout states:
Yet for all the uncanny professionalism of the kids in
this room, their lives are not those of ordinary dancers. As
the school bell rings and the rehearsal breaks up, [the classroom
teacher] drops his drill-sergeant manner and puts a comforting arm
around a thin, anxious-looking boy whose mind is clearly
elsewhere. "What's wrong?" he asks. "Trouble at home?"
The boy nods. "I heard something I didn't want to hear," he says,
looking at the floor. "I slept in the bathtub."
Later, [the teacher] explains that on especially violent nights,
many ghetto mothers put their children to bed in the tub to shield
them from stray bullets. . . .
Joshua Good, "Victim recalls mannerly gunman," _The Atlanta Journal / The
Atlanta Constitution_ November 2, 1998: After a masked gunman forced his
way into her hotel room in Atlanta, Linda Forest Reid, 57, rushed into the
bathroom, locked the door behind her, and "climbed into the bathtub,
hoping it would stop the bullets if he shot through the door."
Torsten Ove, John M.R. Bull, "Gates keep trouble out, often pen anger in,"
_Pittsburgh Post-Gazette,_ June 28, 1998: In an article about security
changes undertaken by the Atlanta Housing Authority, Ove and Bull report
"at Jonesboro South, some residents once slept on the floor and put their
children in bathtubs to avoid bullets."
Jane Prendergast, "Cops train to live," _The Cincinnati Enquirer,_
February 18, 1998: In an article reporting on the training of police
officers for SWAT teams, Prendergast states, "[t]he officers from Highland
Heights, Boone County, Fort Mitchell and elsewhere practice checking a
house for the pretend criminal and talk about things like how bullets
ricochet off bathtubs but not linoleum. ..."
Jim Adams and Kim Wessel, "Lousville shows huge rise in juvenile murder
suspects," _Courier-Journal,_ February 1, 1998: " . . . [Pete] Schuler
[Jefferson County's chief juvenile public defender] , who has represented
juveniles for 15 years. He argues that the state said . . . [a] client's
mother has told him she has slept in her bathtub, afraid a bullet might
hit her at night. ..." Eric Garcia, "Grandmother testifies about local
shooting," _Dallas Morning News,_ November 6, 1997: "As bullets ripped
into her daughter's Arlington apartment, Mary Williams prayed and shielded
her 2-year-old grandson inside a bathtub . . . Ms. Williams - one of the
victims of a Feb. 16 shooting at the Pebble Creek Apartments - testified
Wednesday that she feared for her grandson and daughters as a man
repeatedly fired into the apartment after a dispute about a stolen bag of
incense sticks. . . . When a bullet shattered the apartment's sliding
glass door, Ms. Williams said she grabbed her grandson, Gary Knox, and ran
to the bathroom for safety. `I laid in the tub and laid over him,' Ms.
Williams testified. `He was screaming and hollering. I was screaming and
hollering. I had never heard a gunshot before.' . . ."
Winda Benedetti, "State investigating shootout at Twin lakes Condominiums"
in Spokane, Washington, _The Spokesman Review,_ December 10, 1996: " ...
Twin Lakes residents living in the Evergreen condominiums spent Monday
wondering what had caused their quiet, strange and sometimes spooky
neighbor to open fire Sunday night. . . . [T]those living in apartments
above the gunman could not escape. Officers warned them to hide in their
bathtubs to avoid the flying bullets. . . .
Karen Merk," HUD chief tips hat to Jefferson renewal efforts,"
_Courier-Journal,_ October 24, 1996: "The stories, said U.S. Housing and
Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros, `would make you cry.' In
Chicago's infamous Cabrini Green and Henry Horner Homes housing projects,
he said, mothers put babies to sleep in bathtubs because they never know
when a bullet might rip through a bedroom window. . . ."
Marshall Wilson, "New lease on life for East Palo Alto," _The San
Francisco Chronicle,_ October 6, 1996: " . . . Just four years ago,
gunfire was so common in East Palo Alto that residents took to sleeping in
bathtubs to protect themselves from flying bullets. . . ."
Editorial, "Drug war, welfare take toll on blacks," _Colorado Springs
Gazette Telegraph,_ February 18, 1996: " . . . Yale Law School Professor
Steven B. Duke reports that, owing to the gang turf battles from the "war"
on drugs, "Some Americans sleep in their bathtubs hoping they are
bulletproof. Prohibition-generated violence is destroying large sections
of American cities. We can have our drug war or we can have healthy
cities; we cannot have both."
Is there a widespread belief that a bathtub provides protection against
random bullets? Apparently yes.
Is there a widespread belief that inner-city residents regularly sleep (or
have their children) sleep in bathtubs to protect them from gunfire?
Yes.
Do some people sometimes sleep in bathtubs to protect themselves from
gunfire? Maybe.
Have some people actually taken shelter in bathtubs to protect themselves
or children from gunfire? Yes.
Has anyone actually been saved from a bullet by a taking shelter in a
bathtub? Unknown.
Becca Ward
Apologies for any formatting problems -- things are weird on maniac right
now.
--
Bruce is apparently interested in relevant facts, for some
unaccountable reason, whereas I am interested in juicy gossip.
-- Deborah Stevenson
piem...@hotmail.com
Becca Ward <talo...@deathstar.org> wrote:
(snipped exactly what I hoped to see.)
Brilliant! Thank you very much. I go now to chastise my fellow gun nuts, who
must learn not to shoot the messenger, even if she arrives direct from Handgun
Control Inc.
Susan C. Mudgett
: Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night
And when you awoke, were you alone?
Gerald Belton
Mudgett) wrote:
>
>: Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night
>
>
>And when you awoke, were you alone?
Yes, this bird had flown.
Gerald "so I lit a fire" Belton
Kevin D. Quitt
>Brilliant! Thank you very much. I go now to chastise my fellow gun nuts, who
>must learn not to shoot the messenger, even if she arrives direct from Handgun
>Control Inc.
Of course, hiding in the bathtub doesn't do much good if it's not a metal tub.
--
#include <standard.disclaimer>
_
Kevin D Quitt USA 91351-4454 96.37% of all statistics are made up
Per the FCA, this email address may not be added to any commercial mail list
TMOliver
>
> : Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night
>
> And when you awoke, were you alone?
A. Yes, except for the sinuous sewergator which had crept soundlessly
from the trap.
B. Yes. 'Twas but a small tub.
C. No, during the night I had been joined by a pack of gypsies and
Turks in unlawful flight to avoid arrest on charges of testicular
mutilation and crossing state lines with intent to unlawfully export
reproductive organs.
Akshulee, most modern 'merkin dwellings are equipped with fiberglass
tubs and surrounds, very shallow to conserve water, and likely
vulnerable to anything quicker than a .22LR (sort of the minimum
equippage for Street Gangstas, MK1 Mod0).
Apartments/homes from the '50s/60s are likely equipped with slightly
deeper sheet metal tubs, proof against penetration by many/most pistol
rounds and everyday assault rifles but vulnerable to shooters bearing HV
rifles, especially those chambering rounds intended for hunting Cape
Buffalo, rhino, hefalumps and Kodiak bears.
few arrests have been made of gang members carrying .460 Weatherby
Magnums, .458 Winchesters or the legendary .500 Nitro Express, which
recoil heavily and shoot slowly. On the other hand, errant National
Guardsmen in APCs with flexible .50M2 Browning mgs are a real bathub
threat.
Yuppies, hippies and po'folks dwelling in older 'classic"
homes are the safest of all, with the great cast iron tubs of yore being
deep enough to shelter a fat lady plus proof against anything short of
an antitank weapon.
Sadly, however, a review of federal statistics on bathtub shootings
reveals that 97.4% of all bathtub shooting homicides were accomplished
by shooters standing beside the tub. 82% of those shootings were by
family members, primarily female spouses not armed with cast iron
skillets or hand held pancake griddles. Of the remaining 2.6% of the
total bathtub shootings, almost half resulted from misses by folks in
upstairs apartments attempting to shoot off their toes to avoid military
service, while most of the remainder were self-inflicted by suicidees
attempting to avoid making a mess and as a result not being able to
recover their security deposits to pay for the bagpiper at their
funerals.
The FBI advises against hiding in the tub, even if you have a camoflage
shower curtain. Only an extremly anorexic, very slender person would be
able to escape down the drain.
--
TMOliver, el pelon sinverguenza
From a small observatory overlooking McLennan Crossing
- VESPER ADEST IUVENES CONSURGITE -
Catullus
Paul Sweeney
Kevin D. Quitt wrote in
>
>Of course, hiding in the bathtub doesn't do much good if it's not a metal
tub.
>
Unless of course it was made of another hard material like stone in which
case it would probably be better protection.
Paul "I would think the extra viscosity of the asses milk may help as well"
Sweeney
Cornered Rat
Sven David Holmans <Da...@david-holmans.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Thank goodness my bath is metal. I shall now be safe if the balloon goes
> up. Many people have plastic baths so the warzone tip should not be
> taken by those people.
Metal or ceramic will do against low-power handgun bullets or smallshot at
moderate to long range. However, if you are hidning in a bath tub, you are not
returning fire...which is the most effective way to say "cease, desist and
leave...or die".
Likewise, a file cabinet can be used as cover against a .25 or .32 but not
against a rifle round.
http://ddb.com/RKBA "Human Life is Worth Defending"
http://ddb.com/olegv Photo Gallery, over 800 images
Updated March 12 - "Yet another sysadmin"
Bailey Cameron
piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
> proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
> from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
> in bathtubs actually exists?
I don't know anything about hiding from bullets, but I do know that it is
common practice for people in the midwest with no better place to hide during
tornadoes to sit in the bathtub (most bathrooms have no windows) with
couch/chair cushions over their heads. I believe it is because bathtubs are
heavy and unlikely to be swept up into the tornado, unless it's a real doozy.
I saw this on Channel 13 (NBC affiliate, Indianapolis) during their "Surviving
the Storm" campaign this year. I've filed it away for use this spring,
because the bathroom is the only room in my apartment with no windows, and I'd
rather be in the bathtub than on the can!!! (Well, where else am I going to
sit, the counter? The mirror is there!)
Bailey
TMOliver
>
> piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
> > from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
> > in bathtubs actually exists?
>
> I don't know anything about hiding from bullets, but I do know that it is
> common practice for people in the midwest with no better place to hide during
> tornadoes to sit in the bathtub (most bathrooms have no windows) with
> couch/chair cushions over their heads. I believe it is because bathtubs are
> heavy and unlikely to be swept up into the tornado, unless it's a real doozy.
>
head between your knees, and kiss your young ass
goodbye/farewell/adios/sayonara/etc.
JoAnne Schmitz
>Likewise, a file cabinet can be used as cover against a .25 or .32 but not
>against a rifle round.
Depends on what's in the file cabinet.
JoAnne "what's all this stuff filed under 'K'?" Schmitz
+-------------------------------------------+
| Search! Learn! Find references! Plotz! |
| Visit my new Urban Legends Info Page at |
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+-------------------------------------------+
M.J.Powell
<ol...@ddb.com> writes
>In article <NDKh6DA4...@david-holmans.demon.co.uk>,
> Sven David Holmans <Da...@david-holmans.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thank goodness my bath is metal. I shall now be safe if the balloon goes
>> up. Many people have plastic baths so the warzone tip should not be
>> taken by those people.
>
>Metal or ceramic will do against low-power handgun bullets or smallshot at
>moderate to long range. However, if you are hidning in a bath tub, you are not
>returning fire...which is the most effective way to say "cease, desist and
>leave...or die".
>
>against a rifle round.
A full one or an empty one?
--
Mike The life that I have
Is all that I have
And the life that I have
Is yours.
Don
>
> piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
> > from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
> > in bathtubs actually exists?
>
> I don't know anything about hiding from bullets, but I do know that it is
> common practice for people in the midwest with no better place to hide during
> tornadoes to sit in the bathtub (most bathrooms have no windows) with
> couch/chair cushions over their heads. I believe it is because bathtubs are
> heavy and unlikely to be swept up into the tornado, unless it's a real doozy.
The thinking here is that 1. Bathrooms generally have no, or fewer
windows, reducing the danger of flying glass. 2. Bathrooms are often in
the center of the house, and may have no exterior walls. 3. Bathrooms
are typically small creating a relatively strong little box of walls
around you during a tornado. 4. In an emergency, it's good to have a
plan, no matter what it's overall effectiveness might be, since there's
some value to hiding in the bathroom. That becomes the default suggested
hiding place.
--
Don M.
---------------------------
http://www.seidata.com/~donm/
Reggie
covered cast iron. I still have one in my house that was built in the
early 1920s. If I had to pick a place to escape flying bullets, that
would be where I would go.
Reg
piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
>Since I've recently posted to an inappropriately crossposted thread and
>scratched my head over the angst some folks here feel at this dreadful act,
>perhaps I'm asking to be mistreated-- but I have a question for the
>professional skeptics here.
>
>I've several times seen references to people in urban combat zones who put
>their children to bed in the bathtub, so that they won't be hit by random
>gunfire. Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night in an attempt
>to avoid premature perforation, I'm disposed to believe this story. But is
>it true? A poster on one of the gun nut groups (and I wear that label
>proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
>from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
>in bathtubs actually exists?
>
>
piem...@hotmail.com
Ke...@Quitt.net wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 05:26:06 GMT, piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >Brilliant! Thank you very much. I go now to chastise my fellow gun nuts,
who
> >must learn not to shoot the messenger, even if she arrives direct from
Handgun
> >Control Inc.
>
>
This would depend substantially on the type of projectile and angle of
incidence. Porcelain might shatter, but might also slow, fragment or redirect
the slug.
Bill Ziegler
> case it would probably be better protection.
'Pends. If the shoot-er is using higher caliber centerfire
ammunition,
the result can be "spalling", which is worse than the original
bullet. In "spalling", thank's to the conservation of momentum, and
energy transfer, you can get one or more "chunks" of the interior
of such a container blasted loose, with large fractions of the
original velocity of the bullet imparted to them. If we assume
that the rest of the conditions literally obtain, IE, person or
persons
blasting away randomly with Evil Salt Rifles, and that the
repeaters of this sort of tale are using the standard ceramic lined
bathtubs, this could indeed result in nasty wounds/killings. Much
better protection would be obtained by putting at least 3 walls
betwixt self and the shoot-er, but that's not always possible in
older, poorly constructed buildings. On the gripping hand,
the same older building is more than likely made of brick, which
would tend to cause spalling into the drywall and/or insulation,
and thearby neutralize the rounds in question....
Bill "Can't we all just get a bong?" Ziegler
[AUTOSIG 1.0] Message Composed= Mar 27, 1999 @ 08:44:44 CTZ
Machine-Independent, adj.: Does not run on any existing machine.
Stalin: "Gosphaza, you are so ugly!"
Czar's wife: "You sir, are drunk!"
Stalin: "Da, but tomorrow I will be sober, *and* alive."
JasCJones
>Has anyone actually been saved from a bullet by a taking shelter in a
>bathtub? Unknown.
>
>
>Becca Ward
Yes, a bathtub saved my life a few years ago. My ex^2 girlfriend was going to
shoot me but after wine and some "sudsy twoosies" she relented.
>Apologies for any formatting problems -- things are weird on maniac >right
now.
You know, I read that as "fornicating" problems.
Jim "I still read that as fornicating problems" Jones
Even if two $80,000 otters were consumed within minutes of being released,
think of that as $160,000 towards the killer whales....
(It) really isn't that much when you think about it. Especially when Exxon is
paying half. - Derek Tearne on A.F.U.
Simon Slavin
piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Since I've recently posted to an inappropriately crossposted thread and
> scratched my head over the angst some folks here feel at this dreadful act,
> perhaps I'm asking to be mistreated
You're cross-posting inappropriately again ?
> -- but I have a question for the
> professional skeptics here.
>
> I've several times seen references to people in urban combat zones who put
> their children to bed in the bathtub, so that they won't be hit by random
> gunfire. Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night in an attempt
> to avoid premature perforation, I'm disposed to believe this story. But is
> it true? A poster on one of the gun nut groups (and I wear that label
> proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
> from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
> in bathtubs actually exists?
Since I'm not equipped to conduct a survey on that was happening at
Mar 25 02:22:47 1999 GMT I can't collect evidence on that. I can
tell you that it used to happen. Take a look at an old-style bath,
sometime. It's made of fairly tough metal -- probably the best
thing to line your sleep-cell with if you want to avoid wild bullets.
The metal is coated with enamel. This stops the metal oxidising
(rusting) which means that there are less likely to be rough edges
which might harbour organisms. Enamel won't do much harm if you get
it in a wound -- it doesn't react with anything you'd find in a body
-- so it's a good coating to have if you suspect fragments to be
propelled into wounds.
Next examine the way in which the bath is supported. You'll probably
find a cage holding it to a relatively stable part of the structure
of the building. That bath isn't going to tip over just because a
wall fell down. Then calculate the weight of a bathfull of water.
That's a nice, strong, bathroom floor you have there. If a bomb hits
your house, anyone in the bath is going to be supported by a good
strong floor, and, assuming your bathroom is on the second floor of a
two-storey building, won't have the weight of a whole room falling on
them.
None of which goes to prove that people put their kids to sleep in
bathtubs. But it's what I'd do. And it's what a large number of
people in England did during WWII if they lived in areas likely to be
hit by bombs.
Simon.
--
No junk email please. | What a story !
<http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk> | I can't wait to embellish it.
| -- Elaine from _Ally McBeal_
cbi...@scruznet.com
slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) wrote:
[snippage]
>
> Next examine the way in which the bath is supported. You'll probably
> find a cage holding it to a relatively stable part of the structure
> of the building. That bath isn't going to tip over just because a
> wall fell down. Then calculate the weight of a bathfull of water.
> That's a nice, strong, bathroom floor you have there. If a bomb hits
> your house, anyone in the bath is going to be supported by a good
> strong floor, and, assuming your bathroom is on the second floor of a
> two-storey building, won't have the weight of a whole room falling on
> them.
>
> None of which goes to prove that people put their kids to sleep in
> bathtubs. But it's what I'd do. And it's what a large number of
> people in England did during WWII if they lived in areas likely to be
> hit by bombs.
>
> Simon.
I recall seeing photos taken after an earthquake or bomb destruction in
which a several story building has been demolished but the main plumbing
stack (and perhaps the wall it is in) is left standing with several
bathtubs attached. The only odd thing that might mean that I'm imagining
it is that I don't recall whether there were toilets or sinks similarly
dangling in space.
The main stack or connections probably wouldn't support my additional
weight but might support the weight of a child.
Charles, now where did I put the. . .,Bishop
Don
>
> Bill Ziegler wrote in message ...
>
> :On the gripping hand,
>
> Arrgh! Another violation of the BOCLNR[1]!
No, technically it's a violation of the BOCLNJPR [1]
1: Ban On Larry Niven & Jerry Pournell References.
Viv
Bill Ziegler wrote in message ...
:On the gripping hand,
Arrgh! Another violation of the BOCLNR[1]!
Vivienne "Watch out or I'll kick dead bats at you[2]" Smythe
1. Ban On Cryptic Larry Niven References
2. A COAR[2]
3. Cryptic Other Author Reference.
.~:*'*:~._.~:'*':~._.~:*'*:~._.~:'*':~._.~:*'*:~._.~:'*':~.
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's poor life insurance.
--Sheri S. Tepper
=-=-Fight gullibility now - visit www.urbanlegends.com -=-=
Lizz Holmans
>
>I recall seeing photos taken after an earthquake or bomb destruction in
>which a several story building has been demolished but the main plumbing
>stack (and perhaps the wall it is in) is left standing with several
>bathtubs attached. The only odd thing that might mean that I'm imagining
>it is that I don't recall whether there were toilets or sinks similarly
>dangling in space.
Bathtubs are the favorite tornado-safety shelter in houses without
basements or proper fraidy-holes ( they just don't build 'em like they
used to) . I would put my kids it in tub, cover them with a mattress,
and stay beside them to comfort them.
Men are genetically incapable of seeking shelter during tornados. Every
damned one of them thinks he is the one person the tornado wouldn't dare
to kill, so the Man of the House goes outside on the front porch to
'watch the weather'.
On another, but not related note, I've been to several ghost towns in
Oklahoma (used to be a Sunday afternoon sport). It wouldn't be odd at
all to see a farmer's wheat field with a great big iron thingy in the
middle of it. What they were, were bank vaults; when the rest of the
town was demolished by humans or weather, the bank vault was usually the
only thing in town too heavy to move. So it stayed, to be plowed around
until Kingdom Come.
Lizz 'It's a twister! It's a twister! Now, who's got the combination?'
Holmans
--
Visit http://www.urbanlegends.com
Lon Stowell
>I recall seeing photos taken after an earthquake or bomb destruction in
>which a several story building has been demolished but the main plumbing
>stack (and perhaps the wall it is in) is left standing with several
>bathtubs attached. The only odd thing that might mean that I'm imagining
>it is that I don't recall whether there were toilets or sinks similarly
>dangling in space.
In May 1976, a major motel on west Dodge street and 72nd
[ok, about a half block east of 72nd on Dodge] was wiped
out pretty much in a tornado. None of the occupants were
hurt, as they had been warned to climb into the tubs as
a safety measure.
Should be old stories available in the Omaha World Herald
archives--I just happen to know one survivee.
Lon Stowell
>
>Men are genetically incapable of seeking shelter during tornados. Every
>damned one of them thinks he is the one person the tornado wouldn't dare
>to kill, so the Man of the House goes outside on the front porch to
>'watch the weather'.
Of the few people killed in the May '76 Omaha tornado, indeed
one genetic cripple had gone upstairs to watch the approaching
weather.
Not all of us are completely foolhardy, I had a map and was
tracking one of those tornados and was trying to get good
film of it as it passed thru the Offutt AFB area near my
house. However, I was behind a poured concrete wall at
the time, so I can probably only be classed as half brain-dead.
[No good movies, hail obscured the funnel...bummer.]
>
>On another, but not related note, I've been to several ghost towns in
>Oklahoma (used to be a Sunday afternoon sport). It wouldn't be odd at
>all to see a farmer's wheat field with a great big iron thingy in the
>middle of it. What they were, were bank vaults; when the rest of the
>town was demolished by humans or weather, the bank vault was usually the
>only thing in town too heavy to move. So it stayed, to be plowed around
>until Kingdom Come.
The same Omaha May 76 tornado took out a bank. The main vault
survived but a farmer plowing a field up behind Sioux City
later ran over a bag of coins from the destroyed bank. As
the coin flies, a tad over a hundred miles.
Levi
Don wrote:
> Bailey Cameron wrote:
> >
> > piem...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
> > > from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
> > > in bathtubs actually exists?
> >
> > I don't know anything about hiding from bullets, but I do know that it is
> > common practice for people in the midwest with no better place to hide during
> > tornadoes to sit in the bathtub (most bathrooms have no windows) with
> > couch/chair cushions over their heads. I believe it is because bathtubs are
> > heavy and unlikely to be swept up into the tornado, unless it's a real doozy.
>
> The thinking here is that 1. Bathrooms generally have no, or fewer
> windows, reducing the danger of flying glass. 2. Bathrooms are often in
> the center of the house, and may have no exterior walls. 3. Bathrooms
> are typically small creating a relatively strong little box of walls
> around you during a tornado. 4. In an emergency, it's good to have a
> plan, no matter what it's overall effectiveness might be, since there's
> some value to hiding in the bathroom. That becomes the default suggested
> hiding place.
>
Also, the bathroom provides a convenient receptacle for fear-induced defecation,
which can make a big mess in say, the linen closet.
Levi
Anonymous
>>>> I've several times seen references to people in urban combat zones who put
>>>> their children to bed in the bathtub, so that they won't be hit by random
>>>> gunfire. Since I myself once slept in a bathtub for one night in an attempt
>>>> to avoid premature perforation, I'm disposed to believe this story. But is
>>>> it true? A poster on one of the gun nut groups (and I wear that label
>>>> proudly myself) took me to task for spreading this "urban legend." Apart
>>>> from my own experience, what evidence exists that the practice of bunkering
>>>> in bathtubs actually exists?
>>>
>>> Thank goodness my bath is metal. I shall now be safe if the balloon goes
>>> up. Many people have plastic baths so the warzone tip should not be
>>> taken by those people.
>>
>> Metal or ceramic will do against low-power handgun bullets or smallshot at
>> moderate to long range. However, if you are hidning in a bath tub, you are not
>> returning fire...which is the most effective way to say "cease, desist and
>> leave...or die".
The problem here is most likely random gunfire. They are not out to get
you specifically so a return fire stance probably won't have much of a
deterent effect.
Now if you were the target it would be different. Witness the Korean
shop owners who were able to preserve their assets and lives during the
Rodney King riots.
>> Likewise, a file cabinet can be used as cover against a .25 or .32 but not
>> against a rifle round.
>
> Depends on what's in the file cabinet.
Might help if you put it over yourself in the bathtub.
>JoAnne "what's all this stuff filed under 'K'?" Schmitz
Kevlar maybe?
Ultima2K
Are you not the one who started the Scient ologist SPAMBOT flood into several
newsgroups by crossposting into alt.religion.scient olo gy?
Why is it when cowards get a chance to be anonymous they turn into jerks?
Anonymous the coward wrote:
> <nothing worth while>
--
Tom Stamm
http://members.aol.com/Ultima2K
Remove "NOSPAM" from the reply address to reply directly.
Becca Ward
<a snipe at our friend, David Greene, posting once again under Anonymous
<nob...@replay.com> >
Hello, patient regulars of:
misc.survivalism
tx.guns
talk.politics.guns
uk.politics.guns
soc.culture.usa
Yes, these newsgroups, along with alt.folklore.urban, have once again been
targetted by David Greene, the gentleman with little affection for any of
our newsgroups and apparently far too much time on his hands.
Unfortunately for all of us, Ultima2K chose to post a public scolding of
Mr. Greene -- and even more unfortunately, he *cross-posted* that
scolding. Most unfortunate, in fact, since his and Mr. Greene's sniping
match has so far been confined only to alt.folklore.urban.
If you would like to read the preceding posts in this thread -- which was
started by piem...@hotmail.com, limited only to alt.folklore.urban, as
an inquiry regarding how wide-spread is the belief that residents of
inner-city neighborhoods have their children sleep in bathtubs -- you can
find it on Dejanews. If I wrote this down correctly, piemantic's opening
message has the I.D. No. of <7dc6lf$b4f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> My own
response, including snippets of news reports repeating such a belief, can
be found at
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.03.990325...@maniac.deathstar.org>
I've set follow-ups back into alt.folklore.urban only, since that's the
only newsgroup that is likely to be concerned with Ultima2K's and Mr.
Greene's "discussion."
Becca Ward
--
Bruce is apparently interested in relevant facts, for some
unaccountable reason, whereas I am interested in juicy gossip.
-- Deborah Stevenson
Phil Edwards
<nob...@replay.com> took a thread from alt.folklore.urban and
crossposted it to a further five groups, bringing it up to his
standard quota of six, namely:
alt.folklore.urban
misc.survivalism
tx.guns
talk.politics.guns
uk.politics.guns
soc.culture.usa
Sorry to intrude on your groups with this message. Anonymous appears
to be a troller who likes generating multiple off-topic threads by
crossposting to unrelated groups; presumably he just likes annoying
people he doesn't know. If you want to follow up to Anonymous, please
post to a group which is relevant to your post, not to all six.
Phil "followups" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"It seems that the British, like God, were originally everywhere"
- Frank Lentricchia
Simon Slavin
Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
> [nothing of interest]
Folks, please be aware that this troll was cross-posted to the following
newsgroups:
alt.folklore.urban,
misc.survivalism,
tx.guns,
talk.politics.guns,
uk.politics.guns,
soc.culture.usa
When responding please take care to post only to those groups which you
actually read. Thanks for your help.
Tom Huffman
to wonder if the fiberglass tubs nowdays are as effective as the old
cast-iron tubs of yesteryear....I wouldn't want to use a fiberglass
bathtub against gunfire.
Read one time that a man who was worried about rebel gunfire
(somewhere in Africa or South Americal) had stacked up bricks around
his bed to protect him from random (or aimed) gunfire. Seems like
that would work better than the fiberglass bathtub.
toemoss
This is my opinion, not Hewlett-Packard's