Wierd symbols on door frame
Vince Barmann
> Hi All,
>
> This post is from another newsgroup I follow. Does this sound
> familiar to anyone?
>
>
>>We live in a nice apartment complex outside of Washington,
>>DC. Over the weekend I found a strange symbol written on our
>>front door frame or jam in ink. It was a pentagram or star and
>>about 1/2 an inch below that was a forward slash. I looked at
>>other doors and noticed that there are some more in our
>>building that have it and others that do not. Of the ones that are
>>marked most have the slash under the star and very few have
>>and X or nothing. The floor below us has none and then two
>>floors below about 10 apartments have them.
>>
>>Any thoughts on what it could mean or be? We were worried
>>we're being singled out to be robbed or something. I ask here
>>because this is such a friendly supportive group but also seems
>>to have a wide breadth of experience and knowledge.
>
>
> My reply was:
>
>
>>Your middle name isn't Rosemary is it; and you aren't having a
>>baby are you?
>
>
> So much for the friendly and supportive newsgroup idea.
>
>
> O J "Friendly and supportive is my middle name" Gritmon
Probably a Jewish symbol: the "Star of Solomon". Four of the points
represent the name of god, "YHWH" or some variant. I forget what the
upmust point's means, and I don't know about the slash(es), Google
"YHWH pentagram" and "Star of Solomon" for some hits, maybe "-amulet" to
get past the jewelty ads.
Since Solomon was supposed to have "turned to false gods" (IIRC) the
pentagram became associated with black magic by Christians, but was
originally Qabbalistic and considered a holy sign.
The pentagram could also be Masonic, but I've never seen those on
doorjambs; just on amulets and occasionally on tombstones. I think it's
a symbol of a female branch of Masonry.
Both are pointed up, by the way. I've been told that up points to
heaven, down points to Earth, and there are different meanings.
However, this was from a Wiccan, so take it with a grain of salt.
I bave encountered more often a tiny scroll case attached to the
doorjamb, containing a tiny scroll with one or more Hebrew characters on
it. A friend told me it was a representative of the Torah. I saw her
often kiss her fingers and touch it upon entering her apartment. Kind of
a nice little ritual, I thought.
Vince
(Pull "My Finger" to email)
Ragnar
"O J" <OJ...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:qec980tlh1ht159lf...@4ax.com...
> Hi All,
>
> This post is from another newsgroup I follow. Does this sound
> familiar to anyone?
>
> >We live in a nice apartment complex outside of Washington,
> >DC. Over the weekend I found a strange symbol written on our
> >front door frame or jam in ink.
Easy fix. Duplicate the symbol on every door in the complex.
Fernando de la Cuadra
> triangles superimposed - one representing male, the other female, that
> were used by a religion that later evolved into Judaism.
In "Davici's code"? :-)
Fernando
Paul Tomblin
>>DC. Over the weekend I found a strange symbol written on our
>>about 1/2 an inch below that was a forward slash. I looked at
>>other doors and noticed that there are some more in our
>>building that have it and others that do not. Of the ones that are
>>marked most have the slash under the star and very few have
>>and X or nothing. The floor below us has none and then two
>>floors below about 10 apartments have them.
It means your wireless network was detected, but the slash means its a
closed node. The ones without the slash are open nodes.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
C isn't that hard: void (*(*f[])())() defines f as an array of
unspecified size, of pointers to functions that return pointers to
functions that return void.
Lee Ayrton
> >I have encountered more often a tiny scroll case attached to the
> >doorjamb, containing a tiny scroll with one or more Hebrew characters on
[snip]
> That's a mezuzah, we learned about that in Sunday school. From
> the American Heritage Dictionary:
>
[snip legwork]
> O J "Door jamb on white toast" Gritmon
>
Hey, Rick:
Do you still have any of those accordians with the fancy pearl keyboards
and the chased silverwork?
Lee "I think we've got a keeper" Ayrton
Vince Barmann
> On Tue, 20 Apr, Vince Barmann wrote:
>
> ---------------------<snip>----------------------
>
>>I have encountered more often a tiny scroll case attached to the
>>it. A friend told me it was a representative of the Torah. I saw her
>>often kiss her fingers and touch it upon entering her apartment. Kind of
>>a nice little ritual, I thought.
>
>
> the American Heritage Dictionary:
>
sites
in hopes of finding any mention of a pentagram on doorjambs, but no luck
in the
Hebrew sector. It seems unlikely that they all be masonic symbolsm as
there
aren't so many members in one locale, except maybe in retirement
facilities sponsored by them.
Lessee.... Pentagram is a Pythagorean symbol for health....
Ain't many of those around anymore.
I'm stumped.
Vince
dimestore
> It means your wireless network was detected, but the slash means its a
> closed node. The ones without the slash are open nodes.
LoL! That's it!
Seriously guys, I doubt Jews and/or Masons are going around marking doorways
in D.C.
Either she's making the whole thing up, or it's simply gang graffiti. I've
lived in several apts. that had gang symbols marked in the hallways. The
star is a common symbol. A five point star is "People" and a six point star
is "Folks". This does not necessarily mean that said apt. is "marked" for
burglary or anything else, it could just mean that a kid in the building was
feeling a little destructive.
http://www.nagia.org/mara_salvatrucha.htm
Lee Ayrton
> "Fernando de la Cuadra" <fdelacuadra...@pandasoftware.es> wrote:
> >
> > In "Davici's code"? :-)
> a religion popular" ;-)
Both of you should check your communications equipment. You're getting
some weird extra garbage characters appended to the end of your posts.
<URL:http://home.xnet.com/~warinner/smileys.html>
Chris Clarke
Ayrton <lay...@panix.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Juergen Nieveler wrote:
>
> > "Fernando de la Cuadra" <fdelacuadra...@pandasoftware.es> wrote:
> > >
> > > In "Davici's code"? :-)
>
> > a religion popular" ;-)
>
> Both of you should check your communications equipment. You're getting
> some weird extra garbage characters appended to the end of your posts.
They're ASCII igloos. The Eskimos had a word for it.
M. J. Freeman
alt.folklore.urban:
Only one?
--
Michael J. Freeman Cincinnati, OH
'85 VF700S (The Leper) mike_f...@SPMBLOKmac.com
"Insanity runs in the family; it practically gallops"
Ellison, H. Thompson, D. Parker, Prince, SRV, Led Zep
Paul Linden
> In a previous article, OJTB@NO_SPAM_PLEASEpacbell.net said:
>
>>>DC. Over the weekend I found a strange symbol written on our
>>>front door frame or jam in ink. It was a pentagram or star and
>>>about 1/2 an inch below that was a forward slash. I looked at
>>>other doors and noticed that there are some more in our
>>>building that have it and others that do not. Of the ones that are
>>>marked most have the slash under the star and very few have
>>>and X or nothing. The floor below us has none and then two
>>>floors below about 10 apartments have them.
>
>
> It means your wireless network was detected, but the slash means its a
> closed node. The ones without the slash are open nodes.
>
>
Nice idea, but probably not right:
http://www.blackbeltjones.com/warchalking/warchalk0_9.gif
Paul
Tom Accuosti
Vince Barmann <vbarMyFi...@earthlink.net> informed us:
| O J wrote:
<snip>
||
|| So much for the friendly and supportive newsgroup idea.
||
||
|| O J "Friendly and supportive is my middle name" Gritmon
|
| Probably a Jewish symbol: the "Star of Solomon". Four of the points
| represent the name of god, "YHWH" or some variant. I forget what the
| upmust point's means, and I don't know about the slash(es), Google
| "YHWH pentagram" and "Star of Solomon" for some hits, maybe "-amulet"
| to get past the jewelty ads.
|
| Since Solomon was supposed to have "turned to false gods" (IIRC) the
| pentagram became associated with black magic by Christians, but was
| originally Qabbalistic and considered a holy sign.
|
| The pentagram could also be Masonic, but I've never seen those on
| doorjambs; just on amulets and occasionally on tombstones. I think
| it's a symbol of a female branch of Masonry.
|
| Both are pointed up, by the way. I've been told that up points to
| heaven, down points to Earth, and there are different meanings.
| However, this was from a Wiccan, so take it with a grain of salt.
There is a Masonic offshoot called Order of the Eastern Star that uses
an upside-down pentagram or star. The group admits both women and men,
so it's not just a "female branch". The star is usually colored with
each leg a different color (white, blue, yellow, green, red). From
reading the OP, though, it's doubtful that this is the same symbol. I've
never seen the OES symbol with hash marks underneath, although I'm not a
member, so it's possible that there's something I've missed. But even at
that, I'd be surprised to hear of anyone marking their doorways as such.
As to the Wiccan explanation, I've read similar things about the point
up or point down from various other sects. AFAIK, only Christian Fundies
seem to attach any demonic or satanic significance to the
downward-pointing stars.
Your explanation about it being a Jewish symbol is probably more
correct. Wasn't Purim just a couple of weeks ago?
Tom "upside down from what?" Accuosti
David DeLaney
>Vince Barmann <vbarMyFi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Probably a Jewish symbol: the "Star of Solomon". Four of the points
>> represent the name of god, "YHWH" or some variant. I forget what the
>> upmust point's means, and I don't know about the slash(es), Google
>> "YHWH pentagram" and "Star of Solomon" for some hits, maybe "-amulet"
>> to get past the jewelty ads.
>
>triangles superimposed - one representing male, the other female, that
>were used by a religion that later evolved into Judaism.
James Branch Cabell did this better than you. (Or at least more poetically.)
>Don't know if this is true, but it sounds interesting :-)
Dave "and with 'Juergen' as a name you should have run into him before now"
DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Ray Heindl
> That's a mezuzah, we learned about that in Sunday school.
> From
> the American Heritage Dictionary:
>
>> inscribed with the biblical passages Deuteronomy
>>6:4-9 and 11:13-21 and marked with the word
>>Shaddai, a name of the Almighty, that is rolled up
>>in a container and affixed by many Jewish
>>households to their door frames in conformity with
>>Jewish law and as a sign of their faith.
>>[Hebrew mµzűzâ, doorpost, mezuzah.]
Many years ago, Graham Kerr, also known as The Galloping Gourmet, told
a story about opening up a mezuzah. The little scroll inside read,
"Help! I'm trapped in the mezuzah factory!".
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: rahe...@xnccwx.net)
R H Draney
We've done this before...door-to-door salespeople...they make a mark so they can
tell when they come back whether they've already made a sale, knocked and found
nobody home (in which case they'll try again the next time), made their pitch
and been turned down...originally just simple scratch marks, it wouldn't
surprise me to find that some companies have developed standard codes so that a
different salesperson can come by a few days later and tell whether one of their
colleagues has already taken care of this one...which mark you got will depend
on whether or not you've recently bought a Kirby....
The way to stop them is to draw a picture of a comb near the markings...this
indicates "vicious dog here"....r
JoAnne Schmitz
>>No, the marks were not there when I moved in. In
>>fact I know that they appeared sometime between
>>11:45 PM Friday and 12 noon on Saturday. They're
>>right at my eye level and I am positive I would
>>have noticed them when they first appeared
>>because my eyes are right there when I unlock the
>>door and I did not see them when I let the dog out
>>that Friday night.
Some kind of pseudo-Passover?
The idea that sales people would do this seems unlikely -- it would be a
great way to lose sales, having a potential client seeing you defacing her
door.
JoAnne "will check my ephemeris later" Schmitz
Duggy
>For example, I've recently heard that the part about female priests
>offering "services" in Salomons temple was actually true... the cynic
>in me automatically started thinking "That's one hell of a way to make
>a religion popular" ;-)
HOw do you think Cults work?
===
= DUG.
===
Simon Slavin
<_94hc.14737$l75....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
> Probably a Jewish symbol: the "Star of Solomon". Four of the points
> represent the name of god, "YHWH" or some variant. I forget what the
> upmust point's means, and I don't know about the slash(es), Google
> "YHWH pentagram" and "Star of Solomon" for some hits, maybe "-amulet" to
> get past the jewelty ads.
Interesting blend of fact and uninformed speculation. The six
pointed star is called 'Mogen Dovid' or a Star of David. The
shape doesn't mean anything: neither the sixness of the points
nor the fact that it's often drawn as two overlaid triangles
is significant, it's just a shape. Lots of sources will give
'meanings' for the six points but they make about as much
sense as the meanings for the two different pieces of Christ's
cross.
> Since Solomon was supposed to have "turned to false gods" (IIRC) the
> pentagram became associated with black magic by Christians, but was
> originally Qabbalistic and considered a holy sign.
The Jews have /never/ used a pentagram as a holy sign: it's too
close to the six-pointed star which is the universal symbol of
the Jewish faith. There's only one connection with fiveness I
can think of and that's the Five Cities of the Jordan plain which
are the setting for the Bible's tale of Lot: Sodom and Gamorrah
were two of those five cities. I've heard it said that it's this
fiveness and the Sodom story which led the pentagram to be
associated with Satanism but PPQ didn't go anywhere and I think
it's just bad reasoning (Ex post facto ? Is that the phrase ?)
> The pentagram could also be Masonic, but I've never seen those on
> doorjambs; just on amulets and occasionally on tombstones. I think it's
> a symbol of a female branch of Masonry.
>
> Both are pointed up, by the way. I've been told that up points to
> heaven, down points to Earth, and there are different meanings.
> However, this was from a Wiccan, so take it with a grain of salt.
There are many branches of Masonry and I don't know the
symbolism each of them use. Where's Brother Trei when we need
him ?
Pentagrams have two set of symbolism these days: if there are two
spikes pointing up it's associated with Satanism (the two upward
spikes are the horns of The Goat). If it's rotated so that one
spike is at the top it's associated with Paganism (human body
with arms and legs stretched).
> I bave encountered more often a tiny scroll case attached to the
> doorjamb, containing a tiny scroll with one or more Hebrew characters on
> it. A friend told me it was a representative of the Torah. I saw her
> often kiss her fingers and touch it upon entering her apartment. Kind of
> a nice little ritual, I thought.
As other people have said, it's a Mezuzzah. Inside are some
extracts from the Bible handwritten in extremely small writing.
The Mezuzzah is a symbol that the laws of the Bible are followed
inside the doorway it's attached to. it's not magical, no
blessings are said on it, and you won't be cursed if you break
one. It's just a gesture towards having a Bible handy in case
you should want one.
If you move into a house formerly occupied by Jews, they're
meant to have taken theirs with them. If they didn't, phone a
synagogue/temple, or just take it down and throw it away.
Simon.
--
Using pre-release version of newsreader.
Please tell me if it does weird things.
Ralph Jones
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
[snip]
>
>For example, I've recently heard that the part about female priests
>offering "services" in Salomons temple
Female priests at the NYSE?
rj
Duggy
>Duggy <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>>>For example, I've recently heard that the part about female priests
>>>offering "services" in Salomons temple was actually true... the cynic
>>>in me automatically started thinking "That's one hell of a way to make
>>>a religion popular" ;-)
>How did Catholicism become popular, then? And why did anybody bother
>following the Puritans?
I'm sorry, I thought I was replying to "That's one hell of a way..." not
"That's the only way..."
===
= DUG.
===
Rick Tyler
<slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>it's just bad reasoning (Ex post facto ? Is that the phrase ?)
post hoc ergo propter hoc
- Rick "Inches from the ants, a fire rages" Tyler
--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian
Duggy
>post hoc ergo propter hoc
Post means after, and Ergo therefore...
After hoc therefore proctor hoc?
===
= DUG.
===
Jami JoAnne
>spikes pointing up it's associated with Satanism (the two upward
>spikes are the horns of The Goat).
Actually both Satanists and Pagans have told me that the goat was just put in
there cause he fits. The inverted pentagram was originally inverted because it
represented a man with his head (and therefore his soul) pointed towards Hell.
(Hey, this is what people who followed this so they should be in the know told
me. Course the former could've lied and the latter believed the lies.)
Anyone know the meaning of the symbol that looks like the begining of an
inverted pentagram, but the two top spikes are rounded so it looks like in the
end like a Valentine heart with extra spikes?
And it's my understanding from the original post that these symbols on the
woman's door frame are *drawn* there, right? Which means they're not a
Mezuzzah.
~Jami JoAnne Russell~
http://ladyjami.250free.com/ebook.html
Vince Barmann
> On 20/04/2004, Vince Barmann wrote in message
> <_94hc.14737$l75....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
>
>>Probably a Jewish symbol: the "Star of Solomon". Four of the points
>>represent the name of god, "YHWH" or some variant. I forget what the
>>upmust point's means, and I don't know about the slash(es), Google
>>"YHWH pentagram" and "Star of Solomon" for some hits, maybe "-amulet" to
>>get past the jewelty ads.
>
> Interesting blend of fact and uninformed speculation. The six
> pointed star is called 'Mogen Dovid' or a Star of David. The
> shape doesn't mean anything: neither the sixness of the points
> nor the fact that it's often drawn as two overlaid triangles
> is significant, it's just a shape. Lots of sources will give
> 'meanings' for the six points but they make about as much
> sense as the meanings for the two different pieces of Christ's
> cross.
Well, I admit I am relatively uninformed, but the Israel Ministry if
Foreign affairs talks about both:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1999/2/King%20Solomon-s%20Seal
though from that I glean that it is common to Christanity and Islam as
well, also that the 5-pointed stars were placed on doorways at one time.
I also came across http://altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa100102a.htm
That, among other sites, identifies it with the kaballah, though this
site may not be as reliable.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=38&letter=M
frim the Jewish Encyclopedia talks about its possibly used in place of
the mezuza.
> The Jews have /never/ used a pentagram as a holy sign: it's too
> close to the six-pointed star which is the universal symbol of
> the Jewish faith.
Skipping past sites that are about modern Wiccans and jewelry, I do find
reputed connections to the Kaballah, which at least in some circles is
thought to be sacred.
> If you move into a house formerly occupied by Jews, they're
> meant to have taken theirs with them. If they didn't, phone a
> synagogue/temple, or just take it down and throw it away.
Now that you mention, I have seen one in an apartment I rented.
Left it up.
Thanks for the motivation to look more stuff up.
Vince
Joe Boswell
Duggy <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> writes
Roughly: after that, therefore because of that. For example, the mail
system fills up with Xmas cards in December, then Xmas happens. So Xmas
cards cause Xmas.
--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap
Tim McDaniel
Simon Slavin <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>it's too close to the six-pointed star which is the universal symbol
>of the Jewish faith.
Universal in the past century or so, per
<http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1999/2/King%20Solomon-s%20Seal>
as cited in another reply. The universal symbol before that in
Western Europe was the menorah, I have read, but I have no citation
for that.
>Pentagrams have two set of symbolism these days: if there are two
>spikes pointing up it's associated with Satanism (the two upward
>spikes are the horns of The Goat). If it's rotated so that one spike
>is at the top it's associated with Paganism (human body with arms and
>legs stretched).
Except for the people who associate any mullet of five points voided
and interlaced, point up or point down, with Satanism. The SCA has
had to consider the issue frequently.
<http://sca.org/heraldry/loar/1996/05/lar.html> is the most recent and
detailed examination.
Trefoil presented a goodly number of examples of the use of
mullets of five points voided and interlaced in modern commercial
and political venues. Included among her examples were usage by
Fingerhut, the national flag of Morocco, Prodigy, the seal of the
Solomon Islands, Lone Star Industries in Tennessee, a 1995 design
of Diet Coke can, the 1995 Arts Resources Calendar of the City of
El Paso, Texas. Clearly, this must be considered as supporting
the position of the charge's inoffensiveness to the population at
large.
Trefoil also cited a number of articles which indicate a growing
acceptance or tolerance of Wicca in general.
On the other hand, Pale submitted a sizable number of newspaper
articles from across the United States in 1995 in which pentacles
and pentagrams were plainly called "satanic symbols", sometimes by
chiefs of police, law enforcement officers, and newspaper editors.
A few examples are:
"On the door someone has spray-painted a gold pentacle " the
devil's logo." (The Observer, November 19, 1995)
"But what if Satanists wanted to draw pentagrams on government
property? How would Ms. Warren feel about the constitutional right
of free speech then?" (The Richmond Times Dispatch, January 2,
1995, Tuesday, City Edition, Editorial, p. A-8)
"'Satan is Lord' dominates one wall. On the ceiling, the word
'Jews' is splattered with a red slash through it. Two swastikas
and a satanic pentagram round out the decor." (The Record,
December 3, 1995)
"'If I have an officer who is a Satanist, I'd have to allow him to
put a pentagram on his squad car,' he [Police Chief Donald Grady
II] said. 'I think that would be more offensive to a Catholic
community [than his order requiring removal of personal and
religious items from squad cars].'" (The Santa Fe New Mexican,
November 17, 1995)
"The fire follows three incidents in October in which vandals
broke into classrooms -- once at Hoover and twice at Glendale High
School -- and either stole or attempted to steal computer parts,
then scribbled pentagrams or other satanic-style symbols on the
walls or chalk boards." (Los Angeles Times, November 2, 1995,
Valley Edition)
"Time and nature haven't been the only enemy. Transients and
youths have built fires on the floors and scrawled graffiti
throughout. A pentagram is painted on the floor of one room;
evidence, police say, of satanic worship." (The Salt Lake
Tribune, August 21, 1995)
"As in the first case, satanic symbols known in the cult
subculture accompanied the cat's body. Written in blood on one
door was "Jesus is Dead" and on the other door were two
pentagrams, satanic symbols featuring an inverted five-point star
within a circle, also drawn in blood." (The Tampa Tribune, March
21, 1995)
"For proof, parishioners flash fuzzy photographs of a pentagram --
a Satanic symbol -- that was scratched in the gravel of the
church's parking lot a few weeks after the assault." (Los Angeles
Times, January 29, 1995)
Also to be considered are statements by Wiccans and other
neo-pagans regarding the public perception of the
pentacle/pentagram:
"Being a witch is not easy. [Morgana Katrina] Cabot said she's had
rocks thrown at her and was spit on at a grocery store when people
saw her pentagram necklace. They thought it stood for a worship of
Satan, something she angrily denies." (The Detroit News, October
13, 1995)
"Yes, many people do connect the inverted pentagram and
`satanism"." (Milamber Silver Wolf, October 27, 1995
correspondence)
"Too many erroneous ideas are being spread around i.e.; 1. That
the pentagram is a symbol of Satanism. Maybe to Satanist who
appriated [sic] it from the Pagan Wiccan religion...." (Faye
Jones, Circle of the Emerald Dragon, February 28, 1995
correspondence)
"[M]ost companies who discover a witch on the payroll `will do
anything to fire you,' she [Marie Wilhite, founder of the Pagan
Elders Alliance] said. Some local witches have even received
death threats." "Secrecy reigns even among themselves. `Some are
so into their jobs that I know they're not telling me their real
names,' Ms. Wilhite said." (The Dallas Morning News, October 30,
1995, pp. 17A, 20A)
Kit Howard, a member of ADF [Ar nDraiocht Fein, an American
organization of neo-Druids founded in 1983] and their chief
information officer, "We aren't taken seriously. We got covered
under the usual misconceptions in today's western society that
affects all neo-pagan groups -- that anything that isn't
Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other well-recognized
religion must, by definition, be Satanism." ("Modern Druidry",
Renaissance Magazine, Vol. 1, Issue 1 (February 1996), p. 28)
And, of course, the experience of SCA members must also be
considered.
"The incident ... occured at a this year's local Renfaire, when a
fighter bore an electrical tape formed pentacle on the side of his
helm.... I did not even realize he had it until I saw him on the
field that day. As we prepared to segue to a new demonstration, a
child pointed to the fighter a [sic] loudly proclaimed to all in
earshot `Look, Satan!'" (Wendy C. Donaldson/Lady Eleanor ferch
Rhiwallon, June 1994 correspondence)
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com; tm...@us.ibm.com is my work address
Lee Ayrton
[snip]
> Interesting blend of fact and uninformed speculation. The six
> pointed star is called 'Mogen Dovid' or a Star of David. The
> shape doesn't mean anything: neither the sixness of the points
> nor the fact that it's often drawn as two overlaid triangles
> is significant, it's just a shape. Lots of sources will give
> 'meanings' for the six points but they make about as much
> sense as the meanings for the two different pieces of Christ's
> cross.
I'm thinking it might be another example of backfilling with detail, quite
like the human tendency towards creating spurious acronyms.
> > Since Solomon was supposed to have "turned to false gods" (IIRC) the
> > pentagram became associated with black magic by Christians, but was
> > originally Qabbalistic and considered a holy sign.
>
> The Jews have /never/ used a pentagram as a holy sign: it's too
> close to the six-pointed star which is the universal symbol of
> the Jewish faith. There's only one connection with fiveness I
> can think of and that's the Five Cities of the Jordan plain which
I know five: Five books of Moses.
Laurence Doering
><_94hc.14737$l75....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
>
>> Probably a Jewish symbol: the "Star of Solomon". Four of the points
>> represent the name of god, "YHWH" or some variant. I forget what the
>> upmust point's means, and I don't know about the slash(es), Google
>> "YHWH pentagram" and "Star of Solomon" for some hits, maybe "-amulet" to
>> get past the jewelty ads.
>
> Interesting blend of fact and uninformed speculation. The six
> pointed star is called 'Mogen Dovid' or a Star of David.
Or more like "Magen David" (accent on the second syllable of both
words) if you're speaking modern Hebrew without an Ashkenazi
accent.
"Magen David" means "Shield of David" -- the Hebrew word for
star is "kochav".
> [...]
>
> The Jews have /never/ used a pentagram as a holy sign: it's too
> close to the six-pointed star which is the universal symbol of
> the Jewish faith. There's only one connection with fiveness I
> can think of and that's the Five Cities of the Jordan plain which
> are the setting for the Bible's tale of Lot: Sodom and Gamorrah
> were two of those five cities.
Well, there's the Passover song "Echad mi yodaya?" ("Who knows one?")
which recites the numbers 1 through 13 and their significance to
Judaism. According to the song, the significance of five is that
there are five books in the Torah.
ljd
Paul Herzberg
> Except for the people who associate any mullet of five points voided
> and interlaced, point up or point down, with Satanism.
Mullets, as a whole, are evil.
Paul "Wigging out" Herzberg
Rick Tyler
"After this therefore because of this." It's a Top 10 popular logic
fallacy.
Example: The Internet boomed because Bill Clinton and Al Gore were
elected in 1992.
Alternate version: The Internet boomed because Republicans controlled
Congress starting in 1994.
- Rick "Right up there with 'I read, therefore I post'" Tyler
R H Draney
>
>Anyone know the meaning of the symbol that looks like the begining of an
>inverted pentagram, but the two top spikes are rounded so it looks like in the
>end like a Valentine heart with extra spikes?
Isn't that the Van Halen logo?...r
JG
I wanna live in an igloo up in Gnome,
I wanna live in an igloo up in Gnome,
I wanna live in an igloo up in Gnome,
I wanna make it my home.
Jer "Nanook" ry
Ian Munro
> Simon Slavin <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk>
>
>>Pentagrams have two set of symbolism these days: if there are two
>>spikes pointing up it's associated with Satanism (the two upward
>>spikes are the horns of The Goat). If it's rotated so that one spike
>>is at the top it's associated with Paganism (human body with arms and
>>legs stretched).
>
> Except for the people who associate any mullet of five points voided
> and interlaced, point up or point down, with Satanism. The SCA has
> had to consider the issue frequently.
As I imagine Tim knows, the pentagram/pentangle has strong medieval
Christian associations, as does the number 5 in general. In "Sir Gawain
and the Green Knight," Gawain has one on his shield, the significance of
which is explained at length:
And first, he was faultless in his five senses,
Nor found ever to fail in his five fingers,
And all his fealty was fixed upon the five wounds
That Christ got on the cross, as the creed tells:
And wherever this man in melee took part,
His one thought was of this, past all things else,
That all his force was founded on the five joys
That the high Queen of heaven had in her child....
The fifth of the five fives followed by this knight
Were beneficence boundless and brotherly love
And pure mind and manners, that none might impeach,
And compassion most precious--these peerless five
Were forged and made fast in him, foremost of men.
And so on.
Ian "five by five" Munro
--
"There you go! 'Goneril.' It's in Shakespeare. Don't let me see
anyone ever say there are no people named after venereal diseases."
--Sharon Fenick
Tim McDaniel
And, of course, there were five, five constipated men, in the Bible,
in the Bible.
R H Draney
>
>As I imagine Tim knows, the pentagram/pentangle has strong medieval
>Christian associations, as does the number 5 in general. In "Sir Gawain
>and the Green Knight," Gawain has one on his shield, the significance of
>which is explained at length:
>
> And first, he was faultless in his five senses,
> Nor found ever to fail in his five fingers,
> And all his fealty was fixed upon the five wounds
> That Christ got on the cross, as the creed tells:
> And wherever this man in melee took part,
> His one thought was of this, past all things else,
> That all his force was founded on the five joys
> That the high Queen of heaven had in her child....
> The fifth of the five fives followed by this knight
> Were beneficence boundless and brotherly love
> And pure mind and manners, that none might impeach,
> And compassion most precious--these peerless five
> Were forged and made fast in him, foremost of men.
>
>And so on.
>
>Ian "five by five" Munro
And it's the only verse of "The Twelve Days Of Christmas" with an internal
fermata....
I'm going to save this...I may be able to use it for the upcoming Cinco de Mayo
(5/5) festivities....
R H "Apgar sounds like a Mexican name, doesn't it?" Draney
Geoff McCaughan
> Ian "five by five" Munro
Two by two, hands of blue.
--
Space is big.
Space is dark.
It's hard to find,
A place to park.
Jonathan Miller
news:e15e805a1v4qhsmj4...@4ax.com...
Priests at the NYSE are called "directors". Martha Stewart was one and,
last I looked, she appeared female.
Jon Miller
Duggy
>In message <Pine.OSF.4.21.040422...@marlin.jcu.edu.au>,
>Duggy <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> writes
>>On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Rick Tyler wrote:
>>>post hoc ergo propter hoc
>>Post means after, and Ergo therefore...
>>After hoc therefore proctor hoc?
>Roughly: after that, therefore because of that.
You know what they'll write on your tomb, CJ?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
>On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:29:23 +1000, Duggy <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Rick Tyler wrote:
>>>post hoc ergo propter hoc
>>Post means after, and Ergo therefore...
>>After hoc therefore proctor hoc?
>"After this therefore because of this." It's a Top 10 popular logic
>fallacy.
There are, like, 27 lawyers in the room and none of you know Latin?
===
= DUG.
===
Crowfoot
Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
> "Fernando de la Cuadra" <fdelacuadra...@pandasoftware.es> wrote:
>
> >> I've recently read a claim that the Star of David actually is two
> >> triangles superimposed - one representing male, the other female,
> >> that were used by a religion that later evolved into Judaism.
> >
> > In "Davici's code"? :-)
>
> Yep - nice book, but one never knows which parts are made up and which
> aren't.
>
> For example, I've recently heard that the part about female priests
> offering "services" in Salomons temple was actually true...
It was true of many religions of the time, usually for the same
reason: under the rationalization of offering service to this or that
god, young women could be tested for fertility before being bought
as brides. Nobody wanted to be stuck with an infertile woman (which
might lead people to think that there was something wrong with the
husband, gods forbid!); and no family wanted to have to repay the
bride price and take back into the household a girl who had proven
infertile once married and so could not even be sold away again or
pretty much ever.
So girls did bed-duty to all and sundry as a "religious duty" until
they got pregnant. The child, if male, might well be adopted by
the guy who then took the woman in marriage, since who knew, she
might bear nothing but girls after; or the child would be left with
the temple as a servant or some other form of religious property
while the girl could be put up for marriage in good conscience and
without danger of the deal being repudiated later for infertility
attributed to her.
I can't offer cites for this, but was told it by a colleague who
writes historical fiction and who is the best and most devoted damned
researcher I have ever come across, so I'm inclined to believe it.
It makes economic and social sense in terms of the mores of the times,
according to which the only real value of a woman was as a breeder,
preferably of sons (ie fighters who could protect the family's
property and lives).
C.
--
Crow
Jami JoAnne
>last I looked, she appeared female.
Martha Stewart's a woman? You sure she's even human?
Paul Linden
[after some judicious snipping]
> I can't offer cites for this, but was told it by a colleague who
I've got this one.
Paul
--
"I can't offer cites for this, but was told it by a colleague who
writes historical fiction ..."
Crowfoot in AFU
Tim McDaniel
Geoff McCaughan <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>Ian Munro <ian....@ualberta.ca> wrote:
>
>> Ian "five by five" Munro
>
>Two by two, hands of blue.
Didn't know this was a joss house.
>Space is big.
> Space is dark.
> It's hard to find,
> A place to park.
Burma Shave.
Le Trôle
wrote in message news:20040423081134...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >Priests at the NYSE are called "directors". Martha Stewart was one and,
> >last I looked, she appeared female.
>
> Martha Stewart's a woman? You sure she's even human?
What does this mean?
Rick Tyler
Well, if you had originally scribed, "Post - after, after hoc, ergo -
therefore, 'After hoc, therefore' something else hoc" I would have
been all over it, you elitist, Harvard, fascist,
missed-the-dean's-list-two-semesters-in-a-row Yankee jackass.
- Rick "I <heart> CJ Cregg" Tyler
Simon Slavin
<Pine.NEB.4.58.04...@panix3.panix.com>:
> I know five: Five books of Moses.
Good grief. How did I miss that ?
On 22/04/2004, Vince Barmann wrote in message
<d7Jhc.6299$gH6....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
> Skipping past sites that are about modern Wiccans and jewelry, I do find
> reputed connections to the Kaballah, which at least in some circles is
> thought to be sacred.
Hmm. Yes, okay, Kaballah. I don't know much about Kaballah and
it's not a necessary part of Judaism, but I wouldn't be surprised
to learn that K associated some meaning with a pentagram. It
seems to believe that pretty much every symbol can be interpreted
as having a meaning.
> > If you move into a house formerly occupied by Jews, they're
> > meant to have taken theirs with them. If they didn't, phone a
> > synagogue/temple, or just take it down and throw it away.
>
> Now that you mention, I have seen one in an apartment I rented.
> Left it up.
No harm done, though you might have got involved in a few
conversations that left both parties wondering what happened.
> Thanks for the motivation to look more stuff up.
Hmm. I think you've pretty much defined what this group's for.
Thanks for your reminder to consider Kaballah next time.
Simon.
--
Using pre-release version of newsreader.
Please tell me if it does weird things.
Simon Slavin
100...@marlin.jcu.edu.au>:
Sure: "After this, therefore because of this.". Good example of
faulty thinking. Thanks.
Karen J. Cravens
quotation from news:c6c678$2mg$5$8300...@news.demon.co.uk:
> On 22/04/2004, Duggy wrote in message
<Pine.OSF.4.21.0404221428410.23287-
> 100...@marlin.jcu.edu.au>:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Rick Tyler wrote:
>> >post hoc ergo propter hoc
>>
>> Post means after, and Ergo therefore...
>>
>> After hoc therefore proctor hoc?
>
> Sure: "After this, therefore because of this.". Good example of
> faulty thinking. Thanks.
My Latin dic's in the basement... what's "proctor" mean again?
--
Karen J. Cravens
Duggy
>Well, if you had originally scribed, "Post - after, after hoc, ergo -
>therefore, 'After hoc, therefore' something else hoc" I would have
>been all over it, you elitist, Harvard, fascist,
>missed-the-dean's-list-two-semesters-in-a-row Yankee jackass.
I was paraphrasing from memory you Berklry shiksa feminista...
Wow, that was too far.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
>begin Simon Slavin <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk>
>quotation from news:c6c678$2mg$5$8300...@news.demon.co.uk:
>> faulty thinking. Thanks.
>My Latin dic's in the basement... what's "proctor" mean again?
After knowing because "post" means "after" and "ergo" means
"therefore" therefore "hoc" means "this" and "proctor" means "because of"
===
= DUG.
===
Ralph Jones
[snip]
>
>After knowing because "post" means "after" and "ergo" means
>"therefore" therefore "hoc" means "this" and "proctor" means "because of"
>
Not what my propterologist told me.
rj
R H Draney
That's not the kind of "looking up" you were supposed to be doing....r
Michael Kuettner
"Karen J. Cravens" <silve...@phoenyx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns94D4BFB9...@130.133.1.4...
"Proctor & Ludere" means satanism, eg.
Cheers,
Michael "but propter would be proper" Kuettner
Jami JoAnne
>
>What does this mean?
>
Not much, I just really hate Martha Stewart.
Le Trôle
> >> Martha Stewart's a woman? You sure she's even human?
> >
> >What does this mean?
> >
>
> Not much, I just really hate Martha Stewart.
I thought you might have been on
one of your vampire kicks again.
At least she's not an empty headed minger.
Lee Ayrton
I want to marry an igloo maker and keep him company,
I want to marry an igloo maker and live on a floe by the sea;
I'll polish his ASCII by the light of day
So typists at night can have their say,
I want to marry an igloo maker, won't that be OK?
We'll take walks along the E-bay,
Maybe find a IRC too;
I'd love living in an ice-dome house:
[CHR$(07)] How about you?
Helge Moulding
> > > Martha Stewart's a woman? You sure she's even human?
> > What does this mean?
> Not much, I just really hate Martha Stewart.
Sounds like a personal problem to me.
--
Helge Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://hmoulding.cjb.net/ with a weird name
Andrew Reid
>
> I wanna live in an igloo up in Gnome,
> I wanna live in an igloo up in Gnome,
> I wanna live in an igloo up in Gnome,
> I wanna make it my home.
>
> Jer "Nanook" ry
ObUL: Nome, Alaska, USA, was so named due to a map
transcription error.
From <http://www.nomealaska.org/vc/history.htm>:
> Nome was named as a result of a 50 year-old spelling
> error. In the 1850's > an officer on a British ship off
> the coast of Alaska noted on a manuscript map that a
> nearby prominent point was not identified. He wrote
> "? Name" next to the point. When the map was recopied,
> another draftsman thought that the ? was a C and that the
> a in "Name" was an o, and thus a map-maker in the
> British Admiralty christened "Cape Nome."
The same page (that of the Convention and Visitor Bureau
of Nome, Alaska) explains how the town came to have the same
name as the cape, even though it's not on the cape.
I believe the name story is true.
Andrew "But I don't write historical fiction or anything." Reid
--
Andrew Reid -- E-mail address in header lightly obfuscated.
Gerald Clough
And it will be hard to maintain a good hate for a woman who wakes up
every morning with a toilet in her living room. (The view out the window
ain't so great, either.)
Gerald 'location-location-location' Clough
JoAnne Schmitz
>Hi Folks,
>
> Just to update this a little, I apologized for the "Rosemary's
>Baby" remark and asked the lady in question if the marks had been
>there when she moved in. This is her reply:
>
>>Hi O J,
>>
>>Oh, I didn't take offense at the Rosemary's Baby
>>remark at all. In fact it gave me my first laugh of
>>the day! I was going to post back that I didn't think
>>I was pregnant but the neighbors were all brining
>>me these "health drinks" for some reason and I had
>>heard scratching in the wall yesterday.
>
>>Thank you so much for asking the folklore people!
>>I'd really be interested in hearing what they have to
>>say. I haven't had any luck doing any web searches
>>and it doesn't seem to be any known gang symbol
>>that we can find.
>>
>>No, the marks were not there when I moved in. In
>>fact I know that they appeared sometime between
>>11:45 PM Friday and 12 noon on Saturday. They're
>>right at my eye level and I am positive I would
>>have noticed them when they first appeared
>>because my eyes are right there when I unlock the
>>door and I did not see them when I let the dog out
>>that Friday night.
As promised, I checked an Ephemeris and it says:
(Fri) 4/16/2004 1:43am Moon (Pis) Squ (Gem) Lilith
(Fri) 4/16/2004 4:33am Moon (Pis) Tri (Can) Ceres
(Fri) 4/16/2004 9:42am Moon (Pis) Squ [Sag] Pluto
(Fri) 4/16/2004 9:53am Moon (Pis) Sex (Cap) Juno
(Fri) 4/16/2004 12:10pm Vesta (Aqu) --> Pisces
(Fri) 4/16/2004 4:06pm Moon (Pis) Sex (Tau) Pallas
(Fri) 4/16/2004 4:53pm Moon (Pis) Sex (Cap) Chiron
(Fri) 4/16/2004 9:05pm Sun (Ari) Con [Ari] Mercury
============
(Sat) 4/17/2004 12:24am Moon (Pis) --> Aries
(Sat) 4/17/2004 11:23am Chiron (Cap) Tri (Tau) Pallas
============
(Sat) 4/17/2004 3:05pm Moon (Ari) Squ (Can) Saturn
The events that fit within that time frame are separated from the others by
the ==== line. Moon entering Aries is the beginning of a new Moon cycle in
the zodiacal sense, though its phase is not remarkable.
I'm not well-versed in asteroid meanings. The built-in interpretation in
Astrol96 says of the Chiron-Pallas trine:
(Sat) 4/17/2004 11:23am Chiron (Cap) Tri (Tau) Pallas
Energy representing ability to help, heal, and teach others, and where one
has much experience, is in harmony with energies of tendency to direct
energy away from emotional and into mental pursuits.
Stretching it a little bit back to 9:05pm, Sun conjunct Mercury in Aries
would be a good time to do writing magic, I suppose. If you started the
marking then, you might not get to our Rosemary's door until after 11,
given the time it takes to make the marks and the amount of time you might
spend looking casual when someone opens his or her door.
The planets might be transiting something in an individual's or
organization's chart. Hmm...Aleister Crowley had Neptune at Aries 28. [1]
Maybe someone was hoping to bring his spirit (Neptune) forth using writing
magic (Mercury), to create something (Sun) new (Aries). This doesn't
enlighten us on the slash business, though.
It's easy to manufacture connections if you have enough information.
Whether they're the ones the pentagram-scribblers were using is another
story.
JoAnne "very possibly, it's just kids playing around" Schmitz
Burroughs Guy
> It
> seems to believe that pretty much every symbol can be interpreted
> as having a meaning.
If it doesn't have a meaning can it be a symbol?
--
Burroughs Guy
Vaguer memories available upon request
Burroughs Guy
> The apartment manager said they
> >were going to paint over the
> >symbols this coming week.
It's a gang initiation. They kill the person who paints over the symbols.
groo
news:YmFydGljdXM=.7cd672d1c3ff6635...@1083450811.nulluser.com:
> Simon Slavin wrote:
>
>> It
>> seems to believe that pretty much every symbol can be interpreted
>> as having a meaning.
>
> If it doesn't have a meaning can it be a symbol?
"Gee, Lois, what's that strange symbol scrawled on the wall of the cave?"
--
"I've gotta stop getting all of my botanical data from cartoons." - Brett
Bayne
Vince Barmann
> "Burroughs Guy" <BurroughsG...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:YmFydGljdXM=.7cd672d1c3ff6635...@1083450811.nulluser.com:
>
>
>>Simon Slavin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It
>>>seems to believe that pretty much every symbol can be interpreted
>>>as having a meaning.
>>
>>If it doesn't have a meaning can it be a symbol?
>
>
> "Gee, Lois, what's that strange symbol scrawled on the wall of the cave?"
Or worse "I say, Smedley, this looks like an ancient drawing of . . .
Us! and what's that thing in the background with teeth?"
Vince "Thanks, Gahan" B.