Brooke rejected by Princeton? (Re: Thing U.S. High School
Kim Scheinberg
>In article <316c4412...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
>Lawrence E. McKnight <mckn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Can you name any Division I-A teams (with the possible exception of
>>Northwestern, of course) which have higher standards? Hey, if an
>>athlete is good enough, even the Ivy League will lower their standards.
>
>I remember how back in the '80s, Brooke Shields applied for but was denied
>admission to Princeton--her test scores weren't there. Her mother (probably
>the ultimate stage mother) threatened to sue the university on the grounds
>that her test scores were as good as those of members of Princeton's Hockey
>team, and they wouldn't have qualified had they been held up to the same
>standards that the rest of Princeton's students were required to meet.
[I've added a.f.u. to the newsgroups line and set followups there]
This sets off my bullshit detector completely. Brooke graduated Dwight
Englewood in '82. I was class of '85. She was the subject of much
conversation and speculation during my years there and I never heard this
story -- not through the usual grapevine, or from the guy who took her to
her prom. (But thank you for the excuse to now pick up a phone and call him)
[Motto alert] In a school of only 100 kids per class, very *few* things
managed to stay quiet. This one would have leaked
kim "besides, she passed Mr. Gibson's pre-calc exam -- notoriously one
of the hardest given at DES" scheinberg
--
Kim Scheinberg | I think moderated is always better, but then,
ik...@panix.com | I'm a paid fascist - Shabbir J. Safdar
Andrew Rogers
> >>Can you name any Division I-A teams (with the possible exception of
> >>Northwestern, of course) which have higher standards? Hey, if an
> >>athlete is good enough, even the Ivy League will lower their standards.
> >
> >I remember how back in the '80s, Brooke Shields applied for but was denied
> >admission to Princeton--her test scores weren't there.
Never heard that one, but the _Boston Globe_ reported at the
time that Harvard refused to guarantee in advance that she
would be admitted - so she and her mom went off in a huff
and applied to Princeton instead. (I wondered at the time
whether that indicated that Princeton *was* willing to
guarantee admission in advance.)
Of course, I wonder what Harvard would have said if she had been
Brooke Lowell, or Brooke Cabot, or Brooke Saltonstall...
Andrew
Kim Scheinberg
>Kim Scheinberg wrote:
[...]
>> >I remember how back in the '80s, Brooke Shields applied for but was denied
>> >admission to Princeton--her test scores weren't there.
Um, no. I didn't. If you want to see what I wrote, go look at the
previous post. Please pay more attention to your attributions
-k.
Rachel Luxemburg
the following:
>>the ultimate stage mother) threatened to sue the university on the grounds
>>that her test scores were as good as those of members of Princeton's Hockey
>>team, and they wouldn't have qualified had they been held up to the same
>>standards that the rest of Princeton's students were required to meet.
>
>Englewood in '82. I was class of '85. She was the subject of much
>conversation and speculation during my years there and I never heard this
>story -- not through the usual grapevine, or from the guy who took her to
>her prom. (But thank you for the excuse to now pick up a phone and call him)
>
>[Motto alert] In a school of only 100 kids per class, very *few* things
>managed to stay quiet. This one would have leaked
FWIW, the story I heard about Brooke & college was that her mother
contacted several Ivy schools & announced that Brooke wanted to apply,
but wouldn't unless she was guaranteed to be accepted by said school.
Harvard said "hell no". Princeton accepted.
Whether this is a true story or not I don't know. I DO know a true
Brooke story about her mom trying to bully a business owner into
donating his services to a photo shoot "because he would get sooooo
much free publicity" but that's another tale for another day.
Rachel "I went to Horace Mann so what do I know" Luxemburg
Rachel Luxemburg
rs...@link-net.com
LinkAmerica Communications
http://www.link-net.com
Robert Brown
>FWIW, the story I heard about Brooke & college was that her mother
>contacted several Ivy schools & announced that Brooke wanted to apply,
>but wouldn't unless she was guaranteed to be accepted by said school.
>Harvard said "hell no". Princeton accepted.
>
>Whether this is a true story or not I don't know. I DO know a true
>Brooke story about her mom trying to bully a business owner into
>donating his services to a photo shoot "because he would get sooooo
>much free publicity" but that's another tale for another day.
>
>Rachel "I went to Horace Mann so what do I know" Luxemburg
Um...Cite your source for this last.
Brooke is a New Jersey native and she always had her heart set on going to
Princeton. There was even a LIFE magazine photo-essay on her, visiting
the Princeton campus, before she had even applied. I was on campus the year
she applied, but it was no foregone conclusion that she would be accepted.
The *Princeton Weekly Bulletin* and local papers followed the story so
closely, that the admissions director went to the beach, saying he'd decide
there and tell the verdict when he got back.
A lot of hooplah surrounded her arrival, of course, but once she was here,
she was pretty much *ignored.* So much for pressure about "publicity"; it's
a town full of celebrities. And, wonder of wonders, she turned out to be a
pretty good student, even compared to other Princetonians. A professor
friend of mine who had her as a student said she was one of the most
organized in his class.
Joseph Askew
>a town full of celebrities. And, wonder of wonders, she turned out to be a
>pretty good student, even compared to other Princetonians. A professor
>friend of mine who had her as a student said she was one of the most
>organized in his class.
It is true that Princeton allowed Ms Shields to graudate without
doing a single unit of Maths, History, English, Foreign language,
Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology or Philosophy. But by what of
the many standards you might like to apply would you classify this
woman as a pretty good student? Organisation? Wow. So long as she
has all her clever little airhead ideas in neat folders she was a
good student? Nice University.
Joseph
sharon fenick
>b...@pupress.princeton.edu (Robert Brown) writes:
>>a town full of celebrities. And, wonder of wonders, she turned out to be a
>>pretty good student, even compared to other Princetonians.
>It is true that Princeton allowed Ms Shields to graudate without
>doing a single unit of Maths, History, English, Foreign language,
>Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology or Philosophy.
>the many standards you might like to apply would you classify this
>woman as a pretty good student? Organisation? Wow. So long as she
>has all her clever little airhead ideas in neat folders she was a
>good student? Nice University.
I highly doubt that she took no Foreign language classes en route to her
degree in French literature, and I'd imagine that the freshman writing
requirements were waived for her. But the very force of your wholly
unsubstantiated statement, combined with the tiny bits of venom (or is that
spittle?) surrounding it lead me to believe you couldn't be serious in
your assertion in any case.
Sharon "was at a party for a Princeton grad her year; Brooke's page in the
yearbook was looked for far more often than the honoree's, but heck, he was
there in person" Fenick
--
"Yet there was nothing finicky about their politeness; it had the Public
School touch, and, though sedulous, was virile. More battles than Waterloo
have been won on our playing fields, and Margaret bowed to a charm of which
she did not wholly approve, and said nothing when the Oxford colleges were
identified wrongly." - E. M. Forster , _Howards End_
Joseph Askew
>I highly doubt that she took no Foreign language classes en route to her
>degree in French literature, and I'd imagine that the freshman writing
>requirements were waived for her.
I don't know, what with slumping standards and all.
>But the very force of your wholly
>unsubstantiated statement, combined with the tiny bits of venom (or is that
>spittle?) surrounding it lead me to believe you couldn't be serious in
>your assertion in any case.
You see an Ivy League education isn't a waste of time. Amazing what
it can teach you to pick up. Just for the record it is spite, venom
and spittle.
>identified wrongly." - E. M. Forster , _Howards End_
An Ivy League education and reads E M Forster. A pity Tina
Brown runs the _New Yorker_ or you might have got a job there.
Joseph
Yeechang Lee
|It is true that Princeton allowed Ms Shields to graudate without
|doing a single unit of Maths, History, English, Foreign language,
|Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology or Philosophy.
[Snip typically askew Askew prattle]
Ah, spring. Birds singing, trees blooming, flowers sprouting, and
Askew spouting on yet another topic he knows nothing about. What more
can one ask for?
Y'know, soc.history.what-if hasn't heard you talk about how the
Soviets won WWII single-handedly in a while--nor has
sci.military.naval recently heard your declamations on how the Indian
Navy could destroy the USN. Why don't you go play over there?
ObUL:
T. No one at Monash seems to know just what relationship Joseph
Askew has with the university.
Yeechang "Columbia partisan myself, but knocking Princeton like that
is ridiculous, thank you" Lee
--
http://www.columbia.edu/~ylee/ _. icbm://40.83.-73.91/
__./ |
/___. |___
PERTH------>\*./
Robert Brown
>sfe...@quads.uchicago.edu (sharon fenick) writes:
<snippage of speculations on Shields's course work>
>>But the very force of your wholly
>>unsubstantiated statement, combined with the tiny bits of venom (or is that
>>spittle?) surrounding it lead me to believe you couldn't be serious in
>>your assertion in any case.
>
>You see an Ivy League education isn't a waste of time...
<snippage of snidage>
Ms. Fenick is writing from U of Chicago, a fine school but Not Ivy (drat,
there goes that *What Is the Ivy League?* thread again. Check the FAQ.)
>>>identified wrongly." - E. M. Forster , _Howards End_
>An Ivy League education and reads E M Forster....
<further snippage of reference to employment possibilities at *The New
Yorker*>
OTOH, maybe Ms. Fenick attended an Ivy League school before Chicago? What do
I know. She seems to be making perfect sense, in any case, so I forgive her.
[For the record *I* do *not* have an Ivy League education and have no
vested interest in whether or not Ms. Shields got into or through Princeton
on anything but her celebrity. However, stories to the effect that she did
not get in honestly, or that requirements were waived, are unsubstantiated
by the poster.]
sharon fenick
>sfe...@quads.uchicago.edu (sharon fenick) writes:
>>But the very force of your wholly
>>unsubstantiated statement, combined with the tiny bits of venom (or is that
>>spittle?) surrounding it lead me to believe you couldn't be serious in
>>your assertion in any case.
>
>You see an Ivy League education isn't a waste of time. Amazing what
>it can teach you to pick up. Just for the record it is spite, venom
>and spittle.
And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.
>>identified wrongly." - E. M. Forster , _Howards End_
>
>An Ivy League education and reads E M Forster. A pity Tina
>Brown runs the _New Yorker_ or you might have got a job there.
Eh, them Brown people ain't so bad. And, heck, they claim to be part of
the IV league too, although between them and Amherst, that would make at
least XIII.
Sharon "...and lovely crimson uniforms!" Fenick
--
sharon fenick | I am not a vegetarian because I love animals;
the u of c lawr school 72.4% | it is because I hate vegetables.
Michele Tepper
>--
>"Yet there was nothing finicky about their politeness; it had the Public
>School touch, and, though sedulous, was virile. More battles than Waterloo
>have been won on our playing fields, and Margaret bowed to a charm of which
>she did not wholly approve, and said nothing when the Oxford colleges were
"When the public schools -- boarding schools that educated the English
elite -- were reformed during the 1830s, 'godliness and good learning'
were supposed to prevail, and education to virtue was a matter of the
chapel rather than the playing field. The strong evangelical spirit in
the first half of the nineteenth century meanr that a boy had to prove
himself in the fight against sin.... He was supposed to fight a fiar
fight, but there was as yet no organized athletic activity to encourage
fair play. But between 1850 and 1880 organized sport gradually took over
all training in manliness: 'a truly chivlarous football player... was
never guilty of lying, or deceit or meanness, whether of word or
action.' Here sport and morality were once again joined. Typically
enough, the saying that the Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing
fields of Eton dates from 1889 and not from the time of Napoleon."
-- George L. Mosse, _The Image of Man: The Creation of
Modern Masculinity (ISBN 0-19-510101-4), 46
Michele "...but that wouldn't be sportsmanlike" Tepper
--
Michele Tepper "Suggestions: (a) you each buy large, heavy dictionaries;
mte...@panix.com (b) you look it up; (c) you take turns whacking each
other over the head with said dictionaries for having
ever believed anything so silly." -- Ian Munro
Michele Tepper
>
>It is true that Princeton allowed Ms Shields to graudate without
>doing a single unit of Maths, History, English, Foreign language,
>the many standards you might like to apply would you classify this
>woman as a pretty good student? Organisation? Wow. So long as she
>has all her clever little airhead ideas in neat folders she was a
>good student? Nice University.
This is a ridiculous claim, and one that you have provided no
documentation for. In fact, when evidence has been provided by Sharon
Fenick to prove you wrong, you have not countered with evidence proving
you right but with vituperative personal attacks. This is most decidedly
not the AFU Way.
Either provide actual evidence for your claims or be quiet: those are
your two choices.
Michele "it's quite simple, really" Tepper
Edward Rice
In article <4lo2o7$a...@panix2.panix.com>,
mte...@panix.com (Michele Tepper) wrote:
> Joseph Askew <jas...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> >
> >It is true that Princeton allowed Ms Shields to graudate without
> >doing a single unit of Maths, History, English, Foreign language,
> >Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology or Philosophy. But by what of
> >the many standards you might like to apply would you classify this
> >woman as a pretty good student? Organisation? Wow. So long as she
> >has all her clever little airhead ideas in neat folders she was a
> >good student? Nice University.
>
> This is a ridiculous claim, and one that you have provided no
> documentation for. In fact, when evidence has been provided by Sharon
> Fenick to prove you wrong, you have not countered with evidence proving
> you right but with vituperative personal attacks. This is most
decidedly
> not the AFU Way.
>
> Either provide actual evidence for your claims or be quiet: those are
> your two choices.
Here's another choice: let's look at this "evidence" that you're citing.
Here's what Sharon wrote:
> I highly doubt that she took no Foreign language classes en route to her
> degree in French literature, and I'd imagine that the freshman writing
> requirements were waived for her. But the very force of your wholly
> unsubstantiated statement, combined with the tiny bits of venom (or is
that
> spittle?) surrounding it lead me to believe you couldn't be serious in
> your assertion in any case.
So, because you happen to agree with it, we're going to count "highly
doubt" and "imagine" along with "believe you couldn't be serious" as proof
positive. Fascinating. This certainly is up to the standards of the a.f.u
of the last year or two.
Disclaimer: I could care less (and also, I couldn't care less) whether
Brooke Shields made her way through Princeton the traditional way or by
working hard.
sharon fenick
Extensive quoting follows, just to make sure I'm being fair. Sorry, y'all,
I tried to pare it down as best I could:
Edward Rice <ehr...@his.com> wrote:
>mte...@panix.com (Michele Tepper) wrote:
> > Joseph Askew <jas...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> > >
> > >It is true that Princeton allowed Ms Shields to graudate without
> > >doing a single unit of Maths, History, English, Foreign language,
> > >Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology or Philosophy.
> > This is a ridiculous claim, and one that you have provided no
> > documentation for. In fact, when evidence has been provided by Sharon
> > Fenick to prove you wrong, you have not countered with evidence proving
> > you right but with vituperative personal attacks. This is most
> > decidedly
> > not the AFU Way.
> >
> > Either provide actual evidence for your claims or be quiet: those are
> > your two choices.
>
>Here's another choice: let's look at this "evidence" that you're citing.
>Here's what Sharon wrote:
>
> > I highly doubt that she took no Foreign language classes en route to her
> > degree in French literature, [...]
>So, because you happen to agree with it, we're going to count "highly
>doubt" and "imagine" along with "believe you couldn't be serious" as proof
>positive. Fascinating. This certainly is up to the standards of the a.f.u
>of the last year or two.
Proof positive wasn't "highly doubt" and "imagine", it was "she got a
degree in French literature." If you want me to back that up with evidence
that she did, I will. If you want me to back up the (implied) step of the
proof which was "Princeton doesn't give degrees in French Literature to
people who took no foreign language classes" then, well, you don't live
up to the standards of the a.f.u. of the past year or two.
But lovely to see you contributing.
Sharon "summon the bedding! (Oh, I can never do this right.)" Fenick
--
sharon fenick | the universe is based on sullen entropy
the u of c lawr school 70% | - R. Hitchcock
Mark Coen
Given the hoopla about what Ms. Shields did or did not take for
classes while at Princeton, here's her transcript, as printed in _Life_
magazine in their August 1987 issue (pp. 24-5). I've included comments
made by Brooke, mostly for entertainment value.
Fall 83-84 Spring 83-83
Intermediate French B Advanced French A
Exposition and Literature B+ History of Earth and Life A-
Into to Psychology A- Philo. and the Modern Mind B-
Beg. Stud. in Modern Dance I P Beg. Studies in Acting P
Fall 84-85 Spring 84-85
Women in Literature[1] B- Advanced Lang & Style (Fr) A-
Stud. in French Lang & Style A- Theories of Psychotherapy[2] A-
Abnormal Psychology A- Comparative Family Systems A-
Intermed. Stud. in Acting I P Cinema WWII - Present A
Fall 85-86 Spring 85-86
Lit, Phil & Soc 18th C.(Fr)[3] B+ Contemporary Drama A-
20th C Fr Women Writers A- Masters 19th C. Fr Fiction A-
The Self in World Relig. [4] A Perf of Suzanne/Cinema B+
Intermed Stud. in Acting II P Ceramics A-
Junior Independent Work A-
Fall 86-87 Spring 86-87
20th C. Comedy in Film A Victorian Children's Lit B+
Topics in 19th C. Fr Lit[5] A French Lit: Lang of Lit Texts A
Ceramics A- Ceramics A-
Senior Departmental Exam B
Senior Thesis A-
[1]"One night I went to a party and drank a lot of champagne. The next
morning I just made it to class and was smashed for the entire 90 minutes.
It was the only time I wasn't nervous in that course."
[2]"On fashion shoots, 'I saved my psych readings for hair and makeup. I
couldn't concentrate enough to write papers while I was being combed out.'"
[3]"I'm so superstitious with finals that I have exactly 10 sharpened
pencils and I always stop in the chapel before every exam. For this one I'd
already started the test while the professor was reading the directions.
Afterward I realized I'd only answered one question, not two. I was lucky
the professor graded me on my work for the entire course."
[4]"This was the best course I took. We discussed Buddhism and Zen, Islam
and Judaism. But maybe I really loved it because it's where I met Dean
Cain, my boyfriend... I love his hands... On Thanksgiving I wrote a religion
paper where I said Zen was like Monty Python. I got an A."
[5]"This was a boring seminar. I used to sit drawing triangles on my note-
book waiting for the class to end."
While the transcript does not say anything about a major, she is
listed as being in the Romance Languages and Literatures department. From
what I can discern from the course numbers, her courses broke down as such:
French (language & Lit): 9
Romance Lang & Lit: 5
English/Literature: 4
Visual Arts: 4
Psychology: 3
Theatre & Dance: 4
Religion/Philosophy: 2
Sociology: 1
Geology: 1
Mark "Too Much Information" Coen
--
Mark Coen "I never tasted a cough medicine I
Boston University didn't love"
- George Costanza
Red Sox Fever: If contracted, consult your doctor
Mark Fey
In article <4m84c4$9...@news.bu.edu>, mjc...@acs2.bu.edu (Mark Coen) wrote:
(grades deleted)
> While the transcript does not say anything about a major, she is
>listed as being in the Romance Languages and Literatures department. From
>what I can discern from the course numbers, her courses broke down as such:
>
> French (language & Lit): 9
> Romance Lang & Lit: 5
> English/Literature: 4
> Visual Arts: 4
> Psychology: 3
> Theatre & Dance: 4
> Religion/Philosophy: 2
> Sociology: 1
> Geology: 1
>
If anyone cares (and at this point I really doubt they do), there is no
"French literature" major at Princeton. (actually they are called
"departmental concentrators" rather than "majors," don't ask!) Rather,
students major in Romance Languages and Literatures and "concentrate in
French, Italian or Spanish language, literature, and civilization."
So there you have it. Judging by the list above, she met all the standard
requirements for her selected course of study.
Mark "get a copy of the Princeton Undergraduate Announcement for all the gory
details" Fey
mf...@phoenix.princeton.edu
Dept. of Politics
Princeton University