Harleys in Cosmoline?
George Byrd
I make this inquiry with some hesitation for reasons that will be
readily apparent. However, it is a slow weekend in AFU.
I'm inquiring about what may be more a persistent and slow moving
rumor than an UL, in the sense that the rumor has no major narrative
element to it. There are other ULish elements to it, such as its
basis in widely held perceptions or beliefs about human nature.
The rumor in (rough) canonical form:
There is a government warehouse somewhere in Kansas full of WWII
military surplus Harley 45s, encased in cosmoline in their original
crates. A FOAF is organizing a group of bidders to purchase these
(now quite valuable) machines from the government agency (DOD?) which
may have lost their recorded paperwork and must be coaxed into
releasing the machines to bidders at public auction.
I first heard this rumor from motorcycling buddies in the 1960s, and
heard it in varying forms from desparate sources well into the 1970s
and mid-1980s. I have made some inquiries in the 1990s among friends
who are or have been motorcyclists. Many have heard of it, at least
distantly, in some form.
One surprising (to me) vector in the early 70s was a coworker who
gratuitously announced his attempt to join in the "bidding group". He
was not a motorcyclist, but wanted so badly to get in on what he
perceived as a "classic bike goldmine" that he was virtually ripping
open his wallet in order to give his FOAF a few hundred dollars to
become part of the "bidding group". What surprised me was the
intensity of his belief in the story.
I never managed to locate any of the sources or principals who were
allegedly organizing the "bidders", however. So I've never been able
to determine whether this was just a (somewhat) credible story used by
grifters to separate the gullible from their money, or was simply a
rumor believed by even the principal "organizers", or both.
I've searched DeJaNews for a couple of years in vain. I made one
oblique reference to this phenomenon in one article in another froup
last year. But I have never seen another on Usenet, nor in the AFU
FAQ.
By way of analogy to viruses & prions, this rumor may be more like a
very slow prion. I have heard it on both USAn coasts, and
persistently over an extended period of years, but not frequently.
I have never heard it from a credible source, in the sense of someone
who could produce references or documentation of its voracity.
Can anyone shed any light upon the story or any probable sources; or
perhaps suggest prototypical stories from which it mutated?
Thank you for your indulgence.
George "old riders ain't bold riders" Byrd
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc. & are NOT legal advice.
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride my motorsikle"
<< Arlo Guthrie >>
Ian A. York
In article <5e5m52$rvh$1...@nntp2.ba.best.com>,
George Byrd <geo...@apan.org.SPAM_NOT> wrote:
>
>There is a government warehouse somewhere in Kansas full of WWII
>military surplus Harley 45s, encased in cosmoline in their original
>crates. A FOAF is organizing a group of bidders to purchase these
This has been trickling around for a while; I have vague memories of it
appearing on AFU pre-DejaNews. Equally vague memories suggest that it may
be linked to similar stories about planes and perhaps jeeps as well. (Is
it true, or my vague memory vaguely deceiving me, that there is in fact a
largish collection of eldery planes in Arizona or somewhere dry?)
Running "cosmoline" and "harley" through DejaNews pulls up several
instances of this story--rec.motorcycles.harley, alt.auto.mercedes,
ba.broadcast--and, interestingly, all the mentions of it I find here treat
it as an ancient chestnut, which suggests that it has indeed been going
around for a long time.
As to what triggers it, I think it's a typical money-for-nothing tale,
which puts it into the same category as Elvis's motorcycle, "The
Philanderer's Porsche" (see The Vanishing Hitchhiker for more details),
and all the IRS refund sorts of stories. It's also reminiscent of "The
Economical Car" legend, which recently popped up here in the form of the
super gas mileage story.
A variant of this legend appears in Jan Willem van de Wettering's "An
Outsider in Amsterdam", in which one of the characters drives a vintage
Harley he apparently got from a war surplus sort of thing, although some
of the details are different.
Ian "tiny cosmolined gerbils in the tailpipes" York
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, 15 Feb 1997 20:36:37 -0500,
On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
<iay...@panix.com (Ian A. York)> wrote:
>This has been trickling around for a while; I have vague memories of it
>appearing on AFU pre-DejaNews. Equally vague memories suggest that it may
>be linked to similar stories about planes and perhaps jeeps as well.
Thanks. This is what I'm looking for -- memories of hearing the story
early on the 'net before widespread 'netlore, and off the 'net -- for
reasons that will be more apparent below.
> (Is
>it true, or my vague memory vaguely deceiving me, that there is in fact a
>largish collection of eldery planes in Arizona or somewhere dry?)
Yes, there is a post WWII military aircraft dump/storage facility in
AZ (or some western state) as I recall from magazine articles & photos
decades ago. And I believe many people have bought old airframes &
parts there for various purposes, but probably not for two-fifty.
>Running "cosmoline" and "harley" through DejaNews pulls up several
>instances of this story--rec.motorcycles.harley, alt.auto.mercedes,
>ba.broadcast--and, interestingly, all the mentions of it I find here treat
>it as an ancient chestnut, which suggests that it has indeed been going
>around for a long time.
Yes, I did that. The ones in ba.b were my own old tangential reference
to it and a followup that quoted me but did not comment on the harley
story. The other two references (r.m.h & a.a.m) were references as
tangential as my own. This is why I was looking to pre-'net and
off-'net recollections.
>As to what triggers it, I think it's a typical money-for-nothing tale,
>which puts it into the same category as Elvis's motorcycle, "The
>Philanderer's Porsche" (see The Vanishing Hitchhiker for more details),
>and all the IRS refund sorts of stories. It's also reminiscent of "The
>Economical Car" legend, which recently popped up here in the form of the
>super gas mileage story.
Thanks for pointing out the genus.
>A variant of this legend appears in Jan Willem van de Wettering's "An
>Outsider in Amsterdam", in which one of the characters drives a vintage
>Harley he apparently got from a war surplus sort of thing, although some
>of the details are different.
This is closer to pay dirt. Thanks. Heretofore I had no real
semi-documentary references.
I know there are factually true instances of WWII vintage motorcycles
turning up in odd places. For example, I knew someone (face-to-face)
who drove a BMW R-75 (The WWII Desert Korps model) which he had
purchased from a farmer in Spain who was using it as a tractor. The
machine was real, as were the license & purchase documents. Pre-WWII
are even easier to find in some respects, but the military surplus
element is not present. That is what makes the Harley story elusive.
I've yet to encounter anyone who could recall even a semi-definite
factual starting point for the recurring warehouse full of military
Harleys rumor.
A major characteristic of the Harley story's (word-of-mouth) vectors
by my recollection was their deep and sincere belief that they were
about to purchase one. The rumor's staying power seems to have been
very great, although the population of hosts was limited, as long as
it spread word of mouth.
But the offhand and skeptical (really humorously dismissive) mentions
on the 'net, indicate to me that the rumor lost vitality when the
medium changed. This could be due to the more opportunity for
widespread debunking, or many other reasons that far greater
ULological minds than mine might determine.
Thanks again for the information. I now have some small shards from
which to begin mentally reconstructing how this rumor worked.
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc. and are NOT legal advice.
"I never believed in reincarnation in any of my other lives,
so I don't see why I should believe in it in this one."
<< Strange de Jim, Herb Caen contributor >>
David Lesher
There are still stories about "Surplus WWII Jeeps for $20.00"
around. These are reenforced by ads for same, seeking to sell you
the details; the same details the DOD Defense Reutilization
Marketing Offices will give you for free.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, iay...@panix.com (Ian A. York) said:
>be linked to similar stories about planes and perhaps jeeps as well. (Is
>it true, or my vague memory vaguely deceiving me, that there is in fact a
>largish collection of eldery planes in Arizona or somewhere dry?)
There is a US government installation (Davis Monthian? Something like that)
in the Arizona desert where old military planes go to die. They are packaged
up so that they can survive for a while with covers over the canopies and with
the engines plugged, greased, etc, and then eventually they are either cut
into pieces and turned into scrap, or they are turned into target drones so
that somebody can blow them out of the sky. The F-106s were recently all
finished off as drones, and now they're starting on the F-4 Phantoms. The
B-52s were cut into pieces and had to be left in place for X number of Russian
satellite passes so that they could be verified according to the latest START
treaty.
--
Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com), Rochester Flying Club
<a href="http://www.servtech.com/public/ptomblin/rfc.html">RFC Web Page</a>
RFC is selling one of our PA28-181 Piper Archer IIs. Contact me for details.
Bob Hiebert
>There is a US government installation (Davis Monthian? Something like that)
>in the Arizona desert where old military planes go to die.
Davis-Monthan Air Force Base.
There is also a place where commercial aircraft are stored during periods of
excess capacity, when financing falls through, etc. These planes are
intended to be brought back out into service. I can't remember the name of
that place, unfortunately.
Bob Hiebert
Len Berlind
>This has been trickling around for a while; I have vague memories of it
>appearing on AFU pre-DejaNews. Equally vague memories suggest that it may
Strange as it may seem, this sort of rumo(u)r actually has a basis in
fact. Hoping to cash in on the jingoistic fervo(u)r which swept the U.S.
of the Fifties, legendary director Edward D. Wood, Jr. made a series of
military-hardware 'sexploitation' films including 'Shermans In Chains',
'Thunderbolts In Bondage', and, of course, the notorious 'Harleys In
Cosmoline.' As usual, his work was Ahead Of Its Time, but the success
of contemporary films such as 'The Hunt For Red October' has since proven
the viability of his concept.
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Ian A. York wrote:
>
> In article <5e5m52$rvh$1...@nntp2.ba.best.com>,
> George Byrd <geo...@apan.org.SPAM_NOT> wrote:
> >
> >There is a government warehouse somewhere in Kansas full of WWII
i have also heard the harleys in cosmoline story, the one prior to that
was the "lost government warehouse full of 'new-in-the-crates 1944
jeeps, packed in cosmoline'"
as far as the old airplanes in the desert storage area, davis-monthan
afb in az has bunches of military flying stuff, both normal and
highly-classifed [can you say 'd-21' drone?] the civilian airlines have
one in gila bend, az for storing unneeded airliners. due to the very
dry air and almost no rain, the corrosion damage is minimal, but you do
have to cover the windscreens from the relentless sun...
there is a rumor that gen. curtis lemay's effort at building a
nuclear-powered bomber, with an air-cooled reactor and 8 huge electric
motors to turn the props is standing out there in the az desert...
congress found out he had spent $400 mil in '1948 dollars' on this, from
various usaf and dod budgets. the main problem was the weight of the
airplane was so high, it had virtually no lift capacity left to carry
bombs.
--
robert 'when cheap junk guns are banned, do you want tyrone, dwayne, and
antoine using glocks, h&k's and smith & wesson's?' rudzki
Ralph Jones
Ian A. York wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> This has been trickling around for a while; I have vague memories of it
> appearing on AFU pre-DejaNews. Equally vague memories suggest that it may
> it true, or my vague memory vaguely deceiving me, that there is in fact a
> largish collection of eldery planes in Arizona or somewhere dry?)
>
It's the Military Aircraft Surplus Disposal Center at Davis-Monthan AFB
in Tucson. This is a recycling center where they keep aircraft intact
until there is no chance of them being recalled to active service; then
part them out until they no longer have useful parts; then sell them to
a cluster of scrap metal dealers around the base.
Apart from a small museum, MASDC does not keep anything for historical
reasons and there are no really old aircraft; even the Vietnam stuff is
dwindling fast. And they will not sell anything for reuse as an
aircraft, except to foreign governments; all military procurement
contracts since the 1950's have forbidden that. Even the budding
helicopter ambulance industry was not allowed to buy the marvelously
useful Hueys in the post-Vietnam years; they had to buy new helicopters
at new prices. (There are two reasons for this: surplus sales devastated
the post-WW2 aviation industry, and military sales today are not insured
for product liability in civilian use.) So if you buy an airplane from
MASDC, it will be chopped in several pieces first.
The Fedguv does run surplus property sales from time to time. You can
get on a mailing list to be notified of them, and attend the sales to
bid on the items against everyone else. There is a Govt Printing Office
publication that describes the procedure, and those back-of-the-magazine
ads are basically offering to sell you a copy of this if you're too dumb
to order a free one.
There is also a storage depot for surplus airliners at the Mojave,
California airport, and there are bargains to be had there if you want a
private jet that burns more fuel than United Airlines can afford. The
movie "Speed" took advantage of this operation to blow up an
honest-to-God 707.
rj
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:48:02 +0000,
On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
>i have also heard the harleys in cosmoline story, the one prior to that
>was the "lost government warehouse full of 'new-in-the-crates 1944
>jeeps, packed in cosmoline'"
Certainly wouldn't doubt that one would hear both, and at different
times, since, as Ian York noted, the two rumors are likely variants or
otherwise closely related. Approximately when were the times you
heard these stories?
[snip airplane graveyard to LeMay's atomic bomber]
> the main problem was the weight of the
>airplane was so high, it had virtually no lift capacity left to carry
>bombs.
I've never much about this.
What was the effective payload? Only two-fifty?
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc.
Opinions above are NOT legal advice.
"Another such victory over the Romans, and we are undone."
<< Pyrrhus (in Plutarch's _Lives_) >>
Rich Lafferty
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, George Byrd wrote:
> In <alt.folklore.urban>, Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:48:02 +0000,
> On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
> <'Feliks Dzerzhinsky' <*rudzki@_spamnot_pacbell.net>> wrote:
>
> >i have also heard the harleys in cosmoline story, the one prior to that
> >was the "lost government warehouse full of 'new-in-the-crates 1944
> >jeeps, packed in cosmoline'"
>
> Certainly wouldn't doubt that one would hear both, and at different
> times, since, as Ian York noted, the two rumors are likely variants or
> otherwise closely related. Approximately when were the times you
> heard these stories?
What on earth is cosmoline?
-Rich "or do I want to know?" Lafferty
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, Ulitsa, Lubyanka, #13 said:
>there is a rumor that gen. curtis lemay's effort at building a
>nuclear-powered bomber, with an air-cooled reactor and 8 huge electric
>motors to turn the props is standing out there in the az desert...
It was never built. There was NB-36, a B-36 (6 turning and 4 burning)
converted to carry a nuclear reactor, but it was never powered by the reactor
- it just carried it for testing purposes. Don't know where it is now, but if
any of your razor blades are glowing, they were probably it.
--
Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com), Rochester Flying Club
<a href="http://www.servtech.com/public/ptomblin/rfc/">RFC Web Page</a>
RFC is selling two of our PA28-181 Piper Archer IIs. See web page for details.
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:53:46 -0500,
On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
>What on earth is cosmoline?
A trade name that is now used somewhat generically for the petroleum
jelly used to pack mechanical equipment for protection against
weathering and atmospheric assaults during shipping and storage.
> -Rich "or do I want to know?" Lafferty
I've never seen cosmoline manufactured, so I don't really know, but it
might be rendered from the carcasses of cocaine-stuffed babies once
they're discarded after the border crossing.
OTOH, it might be the component of glass that causes it to flow.
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc.
Opinions above are NOT legal advice.
"A prejudice is a vagrant opinion without visible means of support."
<< Ambrose Bierce, _The_Devil's_Dictionary_ >>
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, 16 Feb 1997 17:19:08 -0500,
On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
>Strange as it may seem, this sort of rumo(u)r actually has a basis in
>fact. Hoping to cash in on the jingoistic fervo(u)r which swept the U.S.
>of the Fifties, legendary director Edward D. Wood, Jr. made a series of
>military-hardware 'sexploitation' films including 'Shermans In Chains',
>'Thunderbolts In Bondage', and, of course, the notorious 'Harleys In
>Cosmoline.' As usual, his work was Ahead Of Its Time, but the success
>of contemporary films such as 'The Hunt For Red October' has since proven
>the viability of his concept.
Sorry, but I'm in CA, where the fish & game commission sez:
-----http://darkstar.delta.dfg.ca.gov/fishfee.html-----
>Attention Anglers!
>
>Under regulations adopted by the Fish and Game Commission,
>effective March 1, 1994, your fishing license must be attached
>to your clothing at or above the waist so that it is clearly visible.
>(Title 14, Section 700).
----- ----- ----- -----
So be careful Smokey doesn't spot you without it.
But the license fee is only two-fifty, and multi-pole licenses are
available.
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc. and are NOT legal advice.
"Oh, the gallant fisher's life! / It is the best of any;
'Tis full of pleasure, void of strife, / And 'tis beloved by many."
<< Izaak Walton, _The_Angler_ >>
Dave Wilton
Ian A. York wrote:
> This has been trickling around for a while; I have vague memories of it
> appearing on AFU pre-DejaNews. Equally vague memories suggest that it may
> be linked to similar stories about planes and perhaps jeeps as well. (Is
> it true, or my vague memory vaguely deceiving me, that there is in fact a
> largish collection of eldery planes in Arizona or somewhere dry?)
Davis-Monthan Air Force Base near Tucson, Arizona contains a
"boneyard" of old planes in open-air storage. The dry air does
help preserve them, but most are far from flyable condition.
--
Dave Wilton
dwi...@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/dwilton/homepage.htm
Ralph Jones
'Feliks Dzerzhinsky' wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> there is a rumor that gen. curtis lemay's effort at building a
> nuclear-powered bomber, with an air-cooled reactor and 8 huge electric
> motors to turn the props is standing out there in the az desert...
> airplane was so high, it had virtually no lift capacity left to carry
> bombs.
[snip]
There was never an attempt to actually build a nuclear powered airplane.
The nuclear bomber project struggled along on a "feasibility study"
basis beginning in the Forties, and one small reactor was mounted in a
B-36. It did nothing but pump heat around a coolant loop; there was no
provision for transforming the output power into propulsion. The
airplane flew on its original 26,160 cubic inches of piston power (ever
change 336 spark plugs?) long enough to disclose that a reactor could be
operated in flight without roasting the crew.
This airplane indeed didn't have the lift capacity left to carry
weapons, but it wasn't meant to. In principle, in the next generation of
aircraft and reactor design, an effective operational machine could have
been built. But with the cost, safety concerns, and other problems,
ordinary jet airplanes (including a LOT of tankers) became a much more
attractive option. The program finally died of mismanagement and
disinterest in the early Sixties.
No, the B-36 isn't standing around in the desert. Reactors and their
support hardware aren't left "standing around" ANYWHERE and the Air
Force does not keep obsolete airplanes. The reactor went back to the
(then) AEC, and you'll find the airplane at your liquor store with
"Budweiser" printed on it several million times.
rj
Jim Stewart
Rich Lafferty wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, George Byrd wrote:
>
> > In <alt.folklore.urban>, Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:48:02 +0000,
> >
> > >i have also heard the harleys in cosmoline story, the one prior to that
> > >was the "lost government warehouse full of 'new-in-the-crates 1944
> > >jeeps, packed in cosmoline'"
> >
> > Certainly wouldn't doubt that one would hear both, and at different
> > times, since, as Ian York noted, the two rumors are likely variants or
> > otherwise closely related. Approximately when were the times you
> > heard these stories?
>
>
If I might make a small contribution, I was first told of the Harleys in
Cosmoline UL by my dad in the mid 60's. He implied that the legend was
fairly old at that time. I'm going to guess that it is a post-Korean
war thing. I've since asked many baby boomer generation men if they had
heard the UL and most of them have.
Cosmoline is a rust preventing gel that hardens slightly after it is
applied. It can be easily peeled off when the preserved item is to be
placed in service. It was widely used to protect machinery in storage
and ocean transit.
Jim
Jus' plain Pooder
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:53:46 -0500, Rich Lafferty
<laff...@cs.mcgill.ca> really really wants to know:
>
>What on earth is cosmoline?
"Cosmoline [trademark] -- used for petrolatum"
"Petrolatum -- a neutral unctuous odorless tasteless substance
obtained from petroleum and used esp. in ointment and dressings"
(Also used for long-term storage of motorcycles.)
> -Rich "or do I want to know?" Lafferty
Yes, you do.
Don "YCLIU" Fearn
Lance Clarke
George Byrd is reported to have said,
to our fellow alt.folklore.urban-ists:
>The rumor in (rough) canonical form:
>
>There is a government warehouse somewhere in Kansas full of WWII
>military surplus Harley 45s, encased in cosmoline in their original
>crates. A FOAF is organizing a group of bidders to purchase these
Some 15 or so years ago I worked for a guy that, as a sideline/hobby,
bough, fixed up, and sold old bikes. I helped him do this for a while...
We had come across and old, c.40's Harley that needed a piston, so we
ordered it through a dealer.
Some THREE MONTHS later, when it finally arrived, it was packaged in an
original black on orange HD box clearly labeled "US GOV'T PROPERTY".
Inside, the piston was wrapped in oiled paper and encased in cosmoline.
The oiled paper carried the same "US GOV'T PROPERTY" warnings. Exactly
where escapes me, but dates found in this package indicated that it was an
original ~40's part.
Conclusion: Somewhere, at some time, the US Gov't DID own Harley PARTS at
least, that were encased in cosmoline.
So there's a factual bases anyway. Whether they had bikes too is anyone's
guess.
Lance Clarke | What if they gave a fire and nobody came?
|
cla...@concentric.net | Support your volunteer fire department.
# Hi! I am a .sig virus! Please, reproduce me in your .sig block! #
Colin Dooley
Lance Clarke wrote:
> Some THREE MONTHS later, when it finally arrived, it was packaged in an
> original black on orange HD box clearly labeled "US GOV'T PROPERTY".
> Inside, the piston was wrapped in oiled paper and encased in cosmoline.
> The oiled paper carried the same "US GOV'T PROPERTY" warnings. Exactly
> where escapes me, but dates found in this package indicated that it was an
> original ~40's part.
>
> Conclusion: Somewhere, at some time, the US Gov't DID own Harley PARTS at
> least, that were encased in cosmoline.
>
> So there's a factual bases anyway. Whether they had bikes too is anyone's
> guess.
>
I wouldn't think it would be good for the leather seats...
Colin "still a newbie at thinking up witty endings" Dooley
--
<\___/>
/ O O \
\_____/ FTB.
Bill Gates *never* said "640k should be enough for anybody"...
Larry Kubicz
Paul Tomblin wrote:
>There is a US government installation (Davis Monthian? Something like that)
>in the Arizona desert where old military planes go to die. They are packaged
>up so that they can survive for a while with covers over the canopies and with
>the engines plugged, greased, etc, and then eventually they are either cut
>into pieces and turned into scrap, or they are turned into target drones so
>that somebody can blow them out of the sky.
It's the "Boneyard" at Davis-Monthan AFB, in/near Tucson, AZ. In addition to
scrap and drones, the planes there can be cannibalized for spare parts.
Also, occasionally some of these aircraft are put back into service. This
occurred a lot in the Viet Nam war, when we needed slower, low-tech aircraft to
effectively supply close air support. The A-1, A-26, and C-47 come to mind as
probable candidates for reincarnation at that time.
I don't know of any aircraft being sold to civilians, or even if it's permitted.
Federal law prohibits the sale of military _jets_ to civilians (which is why the
F-86s seen in air shows generally originated in the RCAF) but, as far as I know,
non-jet aircraft would be marketable (at least legal-wise).
Larry "Toured the Boneyard once, drooling all the way" Kubicz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry Kubicz | The way to a man's heart is through his sternum.
Denver, CO USA |
lku...@earthlink.net |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lkubicz/lkhome.htm
renab...@aol.com
>It can be easily peeled off when the preserved item is to be
>placed in service. It was widely used to protect machinery in storage
>and ocean transit.
>
>
Maybe it peeled easily for YOU, buddy!!!! I can well remember cleaning a M1903A3 that had been pickled circa 1945 in 1976/7...I will admit there was no rust or other deterioration to be seen once several days worth of work went into removing that $@&% Cosmoline!
renab...@aol.com
>Conclusion: Somewhere, at some time, the US Gov't DID own Harley PARTS at
>least, that were encased in cosmoline.
>
>
Far more likely somebody bought a bunch or surplus parts when they were declared obsolete by DOD and never saw any reason to remove and replace perfectly good packaging....
What I really liked about "Government Surplus" was that when I was in the 9th Infantry Division (late Seventies), the Army-Navy Stores in the area had the then new ALICE (All-purpose Lightweight Infantry Carrying Equipment) TA-50
gear on sale several years before we got our first issue....
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, lku...@earthlink.net said:
>I don't know of any aircraft being sold to civilians, or even if it's permitted.
>Federal law prohibits the sale of military _jets_ to civilians (which is why the
>F-86s seen in air shows generally originated in the RCAF) but, as far as I know,
>non-jet aircraft would be marketable (at least legal-wise).
Unfortunately, some idiot overrotated on take off in one of those CF-86s, got
behind the power curve, and "Sabre-danced" all the way down the runway and
into an ice-cream stand killing dozens of people. So now the Canadian
government doesn't sell used military jets either. So there will be no CF-5s
or Tutors falling into the hands of pilots with more money than brains (like
John Travolta and Michael Dorn, both of whom own ex-military jets).
There was a proposal once to sell ex-USAF A-10 Warthogs to the US Forest
Service to fight forest fires, but I'm not quite sure what good a 30mm cannon
firing Depleted Uranium would do against a forest fire.
There was also recently an black (with a tiny red stripe) ex-Army Bronco at
Rochester Airport. Unlike the de-militarized ones that they sold to various
government agencies, this one still had the Forward Looking Infa Red ball on
the front, and the underwing hardpoints (used to carry small rockets or
bombs). Rumour has it that it belongs to the BATF. I never got close enough
to see the low-visibility registration numbers. Conspiracy theorists can make
what you like out of that.
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:56:53 GMT,
On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
>Unfortunately, some idiot overrotated on take off in one of those CF-86s, got
>behind the power curve, and "Sabre-danced" all the way down the runway and
>into an ice-cream stand killing dozens of people.
That was at an airshow in Sacramento, CA, in the mid-1970s.
The "ice-cream stand" was a full fledged building housing an ice-cream
parlor.
I recall hearing both news reports and gossip among a few
(non-military) pilots at the time. There was speculation of
mechanical failure (inadequate power) compounded by pilot error
(failure to abort).
> So now the Canadian
>government doesn't sell used military jets either. So there will be no CF-5s
>or Tutors falling into the hands of pilots with more money than brains (like
>John Travolta and Michael Dorn, both of whom own ex-military jets).
Somebody (I don't know who) is still flying F86s in recent years,
however. I saw both an F86 & what appeared to be a MIG-15 flying at a
Moffet Field Airshow (the last one?) in the early '90s.
>There was a proposal once to sell ex-USAF A-10 Warthogs to the US Forest
>Service to fight forest fires, but I'm not quite sure what good a 30mm cannon
>firing Depleted Uranium would do against a forest fire.
This is a new and cost-effective Forest Service initiative to protect
scuba divers by eliminating the need for water scoopers. For a mere
two-fifty they modify the cannons to fire little Dewar flasks of
liquid nitrogen, which provide an endothermic explosion upon impact,
both cooling and blowing out the fire. Its value is proved if even
one scuba diver is saved.
>There was also recently an black (with a tiny red stripe) ex-Army Bronco at
>Rochester Airport. Unlike the de-militarized ones that they sold to various
>government agencies, this one still had the Forward Looking Infa Red ball on
>the front, and the underwing hardpoints (used to carry small rockets or
>bombs). Rumour has it that it belongs to the BATF. I never got close enough
>to see the low-visibility registration numbers. Conspiracy theorists can make
>what you like out of that.
BATF will use it to search & destroy moonshine stills, heretics, and
people who smoke in restaurants.
Robert Warinner
Paul Tomblin (ptom...@xcski.com) wrote:
: There was a proposal once to sell ex-USAF A-10 Warthogs to the US Forest
: Service to fight forest fires, but I'm not quite sure what good a 30mm cannon
: firing Depleted Uranium would do against a forest fire.
It would be just dandy for putting severely injured SCUBA divers out
of their misery.
Andrew "HTH" Warinner
wari...@xnet.com
wari...@ttd.teradyne.com
http://www.xnet.com/~warinner
Visit the Sphinx's Nose page: http://www.xnet.com/~warinner/sphinx.html
DaveHatunen
In article <5ed47t$g...@hacgate2.hac.com>,
Larry Kubicz <lku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>>There is a US government installation (Davis Monthian? Something like that)
>>in the Arizona desert where old military planes go to die. They are packaged
>>up so that they can survive for a while with covers over the canopies and with
>>the engines plugged, greased, etc, and then eventually they are either cut
>>into pieces and turned into scrap, or they are turned into target drones so
>>that somebody can blow them out of the sky.
>
>It's the "Boneyard" at Davis-Monthan AFB, in/near Tucson, AZ. In addition to
>scrap and drones, the planes there can be cannibalized for spare parts.
>Also, occasionally some of these aircraft are put back into service. This
>occurred a lot in the Viet Nam war, when we needed slower, low-tech aircraft to
>effectively supply close air support. The A-1, A-26, and C-47 come to mind as
>probable candidates for reincarnation at that time.
>
>Federal law prohibits the sale of military _jets_ to civilians (which is why the
>F-86s seen in air shows generally originated in the RCAF) but, as far as I know,
>non-jet aircraft would be marketable (at least legal-wise).
When I was living in Tucson, mid-1960s to 1979, some of hte helicopters
consigned to D-M were resold. Mostly, I believe, to police departments,
which were just then going ape-shit for helicopters (vis "Blue
Thunder").
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California *
* Between San Francisco and South San Francisco *
*******************************************************
mlo...@mlorton.dns.microsoft.com
In article <E5vnr...@xcski.com> ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
Michael Dorn recently bought a CF-86 from somebody
else, not realizing it had an "Experimental/Exhibition" certificate,
meaning he's only allowed to fly it locally for practice, or to other
locations only if he's enroute to an airshow.
Well, what the hell else was he going to do with it? It's a practical
commuter vehicle and can't see someone popped up the road for a pint
in the thing.
And who is Michael Dorn and why does he have too much money?
M.
--
All necessary disclaimers included by reference.
mlo...@mlorton.dns.microsoft.com
In article <E5vnr...@xcski.com> ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
Michael Dorn recently bought a CF-86 from somebody
else, not realizing it had an "Experimental/Exhibition" certificate,
meaning he's only allowed to fly it locally for practice, or to other
locations only if he's enroute to an airshow.
Well, what the hell else was he going to do with it? It's a practical
commuter vehicle and can't see someone popped up the road for a pint
in the thing.
Let me try that again: It's *not* a practical commuter vehicle and
can't see someone *popping* up the road for a pint in the thing.
Michael "Never time to do it right, always time to do it over" Lorton
Steve Caskey
In Article <33091F...@teal.csn.net>
Ralph Jones <rnj...@teal.csn.net> writes:
>No, the B-36 isn't standing around in the desert. Reactors and their
>support hardware aren't left "standing around" ANYWHERE and the Air
>Force does not keep obsolete airplanes. The reactor went back to the
>(then) AEC, and you'll find the airplane at your liquor store with
>"Budweiser" printed on it several million times.
Are those the glow-in-the-dark cans for fridges where the little light's
gone phut?
Steve "bubble chamber" Caskey
--
Just another mindless public servant at the Ministry of Education
"Fuck you. Don't set me up as television's gladiator Roseanne. I don't
wanna be anybody's role model. Go away." - Lucy Lawless is still a Kiwi
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, geo...@apan.org.SPAM_NOT said:
> <ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)> wrote:
>>Unfortunately, some idiot overrotated on take off in one of those CF-86s, got
>>behind the power curve, and "Sabre-danced" all the way down the runway and
>>into an ice-cream stand killing dozens of people.
>
>That was at an airshow in Sacramento, CA, in the mid-1970s.
>The "ice-cream stand" was a full fledged building housing an ice-cream
>parlor.
>
>I recall hearing both news reports and gossip among a few
>(non-military) pilots at the time. There was speculation of
>mechanical failure (inadequate power) compounded by pilot error
>(failure to abort).
Nope, the official cause was overrotation and getting behind the power curve.
No mechanical failure detected.
>> So now the Canadian
>>government doesn't sell used military jets either. So there will be no CF-5s
>>or Tutors falling into the hands of pilots with more money than brains (like
>>John Travolta and Michael Dorn, both of whom own ex-military jets).
>
>Somebody (I don't know who) is still flying F86s in recent years,
>however. I saw both an F86 & what appeared to be a MIG-15 flying at a
>Moffet Field Airshow (the last one?) in the early '90s.
I meant "no *more* CF-86s". Michael Dorn recently bought a CF-86 from
somebody else, not realizing it had an "Experimental/Exhibition" certificate,
meaning he's only allowed to fly it locally for practice, or to other
locations only if he's enroute to an airshow.
--
renab...@aol.com
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:21:02 GMT,
>In a previous article, geo...@apan.org.SPAM_NOT said:
>>I recall hearing both news reports and gossip among a few
>>(non-military) pilots at the time. There was speculation of
>>mechanical failure (inadequate power) compounded by pilot error
>>(failure to abort).
>Nope, the official cause was overrotation and getting behind the power curve.
>No mechanical failure detected.
Pilot error compounded by pilot error.
You convinced me. I've not really thought much about that disaster
since it happened. The contemporaneous speculation does demonstrate
one phenomenon well: it's often very far off the mark.
I recall that at the time of the Navy P3 & Nasa DC-9 disaster at
Moffet in the '70s, a (now defunct) local paper spun its opinions, and
to some extent its stories, toward P3 pilot error. I think one of the
P3 pilots actually was relatively inexperienced. But, if I recall
correctly, the cause was conclusively demonstrated to have been ATC
error, putting both onto the same runway at the same time.
[snip]
>I meant "no *more* CF-86s". Michael Dorn recently bought a CF-86 from
>somebody else, not realizing it had an "Experimental/Exhibition" certificate,
>meaning he's only allowed to fly it locally for practice, or to other
>locations only if he's enroute to an airshow.
Well, practice makes perfect. What surprises me is not so much that a
private individual could buy one just to peel off the cosmoline (gotta
stay on topic), but that an individual could keep one maintained,
fueled & flying regularly, for practice or for any other purpose.
Question: is this "Sabre dance" essentially a (relatively short)
flight, somewhat peculiar to the Sabre, at high angle of attack, with
insufficient airspeed, in ground effect, until the flat ground runs
out? Does the "dance" refer to some particular motion, like
porpoising or something? I'm asking, but in the form of speculating.
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc. & are NOT legal advice.
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate:
when he can't afford it, and when he can."
<< Mark Twain, _Pudd'nhead_Wilson's_Calendar_ >>
Rich Lafferty
On 19 Feb 1997 renab...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <3317c278...@news.concentric.net>, cla...@concentric.net (Lance Clarke) writes:
>
> >Conclusion: Somewhere, at some time, the US Gov't DID own Harley PARTS at
> >least, that were encased in cosmoline.
> >
> >
[Lines wrapped by yours truly. Please, 72 char, max.]
> Far more likely somebody bought a bunch or surplus parts when they were
> declared obsolete by DOD and never saw any reason to remove and replace
> perfectly good packaging....
Original poster: Having received a US Govt package of a Harley part in
cosmoline, I conclude that the US Govt once owned Harley parts in cosmoline.
Replier: Someone bought the Harley parts in cosmoline from the US Govt,
then sold them to you.
I fail to see where the inclusion of a middle-man into the picture
absolves the US Gov't from having originally had the parts.
-Rich "Hm. AOL. No conclusions, really, none at all." Lafferty
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, mlo...@mlorton.dns.microsoft.com () said:
>In article <upvxwp...@mlorton.dns.microsoft.com> mlo...@mlorton.dns.microsoft.com () writes:
> In article <E5vnr...@xcski.com> ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
> else, not realizing it had an "Experimental/Exhibition" certificate,
> meaning he's only allowed to fly it locally for practice, or to other
> locations only if he's enroute to an airshow.
>
> commuter vehicle and can't see someone popped up the road for a pint
> in the thing.
>
>Let me try that again: It's *not* a practical commuter vehicle and
>can't see someone *popping* up the road for a pint in the thing.
Michael Dorn was "Whorf" on Star Trek:The Next Generation. A fast pressurized
aircraft might be just the thing when you want to pop across the country for a
book signing or a convention speaking engagement.
I know if *I* owned a CF-86 I wouldn't want a restriction that said I couldn't
use it to fly to Chicago for lunch when the urge struck me.
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, geo...@apan.org.SPAM_NOT said:
>In <alt.folklore.urban>, Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:21:02 GMT,
>Well, practice makes perfect. What surprises me is not so much that a
>private individual could buy one just to peel off the cosmoline (gotta
>stay on topic), but that an individual could keep one maintained,
>fueled & flying regularly, for practice or for any other purpose.
Well, where there's a will, there's a entrapeneur(sp?) willing to take your
money to do it for you. Dave Sutton, a frequent poster to
rec.aviation.military makes his living with "Red Star Aviaton", an
organization that imports, trains, and flys Mig-17s, Mig-21s, Fouga Magisters,
and other ex-military jets. He says they own a couple of each, but they have
a lot more that they just house and maintain for their owners. Oh, and Bob
Lutz, the anti-Iacocca, the current CEO of Chrysler, owns a La-39 trainer,
which is what Soviet and Warsaw Pact pilots trained on before they stepped
into a Mig-29 or Su-27. He flew A-4s in the Marines though, so he's familiar
with high performance jets.
>Question: is this "Sabre dance" essentially a (relatively short)
>flight, somewhat peculiar to the Sabre, at high angle of attack, with
>insufficient airspeed, in ground effect, until the flat ground runs
>out? Does the "dance" refer to some particular motion, like
>porpoising or something? I'm asking, but in the form of speculating.
If you watch "Weekday Wings" on the Discovery Channel, sooner or later you'll
see this classic film of a sabre dance. The plane goes the entire length of
the runway just a few feet up, and at very high angle of attack, wobbling back
an forth, and then he ejects when he runs out of runway. The problem is that
when you're behind the power curve, you can be at full power and unable to
accelerate. The only way to get out of it is to lower the nose, but if you do
that you'll lose altitude at first. When you don't have any altitude to lose,
you're out of options.
Scott P. Foisy
Many commercial planes are stored in Mojave, CA. It is north of Edwards
AFB off of Highway 14. It is quite a sight to see all of those aircraft
spread out across the desert floor.
yo mamma...
mlo...@mlorton.dns.microsoft.com wrote:
>
> In article <E5vnr...@xcski.com> ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
>
>
he's the chap who plays the growly 'klingon' on 'star-trek, next
generation'.
surely you have watched this show, and that
'just-slap-the-smirk-off-my-face' character 'que' [john q. lancie]
--
'if male negroes are only 3.5% of the california population, why are
they 55% of the prison population?'
Michele Tepper
yo mamma... <*rudzki@_spamnot_pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>surely you have watched this show, and that
>'just-slap-the-smirk-off-my-face' character 'que' [john q. lancie]
Yes; in fact, we were just recently discussing the famous song about that
character's love life.
Michele "Que's Sarah, and Sarah..." Tepper
--
Michele Tepper "I guess people are basically stupid... you gotta
mte...@panix.com hole in the ground, folks are gonna fall in the
sucker." -- Guard at the Grand Canyon
Terry Smith
> From: geo...@apan.org.NO_UCE (George Byrd)
> <iay...@panix.com (Ian A. York)> wrote:
> I've yet to encounter anyone who could recall even a semi-definite
> factual starting point for the recurring warehouse full of military
> Harleys rumor.
[Slow turn around -~Four years]
A `war surplus' store in Hamilton,[Aotearoa] "Valentines", used to sell
all the parts for a WWII Indian Motorcycle for $80. I believe they finally
sold the last complete kit around 1969, after that it was parts only.
A bike with a gear-shift and clutch pedal was not a racing proposition,
but it was nice counting off a power-poles every power-stroke.
Terry
--
|Fidonet: Terry Smith 3:800/846.23
|Internet: Te...@gastro.apana.org.au
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
Richard Brandt
yo mamma... wrote:
> he's the chap who plays the growly 'klingon' on 'star-trek, next
> generation'.
>
> 'just-slap-the-smirk-off-my-face' character 'que' [john q. lancie]
Manuel!
Richard "fawlty newsreader" Brandt
--
=============================================
http://rgfn.epcc.edu/users/af541/virtual.htm
"People have been known to learn to fly these machines
with no assistance from commercial airlines, and could
in fact fly a cooler of motel chitlin's anywhere
in the country." -- Philo
Larry Kubicz
[Apologies to those uninterested in aviation. I'd have emailed this, but
the proxy server is down at this location. So, if talk of planes and stuff
bores you to tears, move along -- these aren't the droids you're looking for.]
Paul Tomblin wrote:
>Unfortunately, some idiot overrotated on take off in one of those CF-86s, got
>behind the power curve, and "Sabre-danced" all the way down the runway and
>into an ice-cream stand killing dozens of people. So now the Canadian
>government doesn't sell used military jets either. So there will be no CF-5s
>or Tutors falling into the hands of pilots with more money than brains (like
>John Travolta and Michael Dorn, both of whom own ex-military jets).
Didn't know the F-86 had the elevator authority to get into a Saber dance.
The only one I know of is the F-100 commonly shown on film. Interesting (?)
note: the pilot in that one was not killed by the explosion, but from
suffocation after barfing in his oxygen mask.*
>There was a proposal once to sell ex-USAF A-10 Warthogs to the US Forest
>Service to fight forest fires, but I'm not quite sure what good a 30mm cannon
>firing Depleted Uranium would do against a forest fire.
Maybe someone thought they said "tankers," instead of "tank killers."
>There was also recently an black (with a tiny red stripe) ex-Army Bronco at
>Rochester Airport. Unlike the de-militarized ones that they sold to various
>government agencies, this one still had the Forward Looking Infa Red ball on
>the front, and the underwing hardpoints (used to carry small rockets or
>bombs).
If we're talking about the OV-10, I've never seen an Army version. I flew
them in the Air Force, and ours didn't have FLIR. The Pave Nail version had
a laser "zotter" mounted underneath and, I believe the GIB had some access to
IR sensors through that, though.
Anyway, of all military aircraft, the two I'd like to get my hands on are
the OV-10 and the T-37. When I flew it, the Bronco was the most maneuverable
plane in the inventory, and a load of fun to fly. It even has some decent
cargo capacity in the "hell hole" in back. The T-37 has similar performance,
is a "real jet," and is basic enough to be relatively easy to maintain.
* - Could be a military UL, but that's what they taught in Flying Safety
Officer School.
Larry "sigh..." Kubicz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry Kubicz | The purpose of the propeller is to keep the pilot
Denver, CO USA | cool. If you don't believe me, turn it off and
lku...@earthlink.net | watch him sweat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://home.earthlink.net/~lkubicz/lkhome.htm
Lance Clarke
Rich Lafferty is reported to have said,
to our fellow alt.folklore.urban-ists:
>Original poster: Having received a US Govt package of a Harley part in
>cosmoline, I conclude that the US Govt once owned Harley parts in cosmoline.
>
>Replier: Someone bought the Harley parts in cosmoline from the US Govt,
>then sold them to you.
>
>I fail to see where the inclusion of a middle-man into the picture
>absolves the US Gov't from having originally had the parts.
>
> -Rich "Hm. AOL. No conclusions, really, none at all." Lafferty
Okay, how's this?
Since it was >ME< that, for a short time owned a cosmoline encased Harley
part marked US Gov't Property, >I< must have been the US Gov't for a while.
William Brame
Lance Clarke (cla...@concentric.net) wrote:
[...]
: Some 15 or so years ago I worked for a guy that, as a sideline/hobby,
: bough, fixed up, and sold old bikes. I helped him do this for a while...
: We had come across and old, c.40's Harley that needed a piston, so we
: ordered it through a dealer.
: Some THREE MONTHS later, when it finally arrived, it was packaged in an
: original black on orange HD box clearly labeled "US GOV'T PROPERTY".
: Inside, the piston was wrapped in oiled paper and encased in cosmoline.
: The oiled paper carried the same "US GOV'T PROPERTY" warnings. Exactly
: where escapes me, but dates found in this package indicated that it was an
: original ~40's part.
: Conclusion: Somewhere, at some time, the US Gov't DID own Harley PARTS at
: least, that were encased in cosmoline.
: So there's a factual bases anyway. Whether they had bikes too is anyone's
: guess.
"Harley-Davidson WLA: This version of the W series was produced
for the armed forces during World War II.... More than 80,000 military
machines were built during during World War II." --p. 72, _The
Encyclopedia of the Motorcycle_, Hugo Wilson. Dorling Kindersley
Publishing, Inc., New York, 1995. ISBN 0-7894-0150-9.
That the US Gov't once owned a large inventory of Harleys and
spare parts isn't in any doubt. However, I've been hearing wondrous tales
of a Mother Lode of cosmolined WLAs discovered in a warehouse somewhere
for over twenty years, and a FOAF has always been cited as the source.
Fb.
Will
George Byrd
In <alt.folklore.urban>, 24 Feb 1997 10:33:20 -0800,
On "Re: Harleys in Cosmoline?",
> "Harley-Davidson WLA: This version of the W series was produced
>for the armed forces during World War II.... More than 80,000 military
>machines were built during during World War II." --p. 72, _The
>Encyclopedia of the Motorcycle_, Hugo Wilson. Dorling Kindersley
>Publishing, Inc., New York, 1995. ISBN 0-7894-0150-9.
Thanks for the cite. I've been looking for something concrete for the
origin of the UL.
> That the US Gov't once owned a large inventory of Harleys and
>spare parts isn't in any doubt. However, I've been hearing wondrous tales
>of a Mother Lode of cosmolined WLAs discovered in a warehouse somewhere
>for over twenty years, and a FOAF has always been cited as the source.
>Fb.
Agreed on the Fb. I've heard the story for 30+ years as well. The
mutations are very extreme from what may have been originally true
stories of one or more surplus sales (say, in immediate post-war, late
'40s).
To me the really surprising thing is the intensity with which the
vector at any given time believes the story. I perceived the
intensity as much greater than, say the intensity of belief with which
one collects tab-tops for dialysis. Some vectors from which I heard
the story were almost literally ripping their wallets to get to their
money so they could "get in on the big surplus deal."
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc.
Opinions above are NOT legal advice.
"... and fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
<< Alexander Pope, _Essay_on_Criticism_ >>
William Brame
George Byrd (geo...@apan.org.NO_UCE) wrote:
: In <alt.folklore.urban>, 24 Feb 1997 10:33:20 -0800,
: > "Harley-Davidson WLA: This version of the W series was produced
: >for the armed forces during World War II.... More than 80,000 military
: >machines were built during during World War II." --p. 72, _The
: >Encyclopedia of the Motorcycle_, Hugo Wilson. Dorling Kindersley
: >Publishing, Inc., New York, 1995. ISBN 0-7894-0150-9.
: Thanks for the cite. I've been looking for something concrete for the
: origin of the UL.
You're welcome.
: > That the US Gov't once owned a large inventory of Harleys and
: >spare parts isn't in any doubt. However, I've been hearing wondrous tales
: >of a Mother Lode of cosmolined WLAs discovered in a warehouse somewhere
: >for over twenty years, and a FOAF has always been cited as the source.
: >Fb.
: Agreed on the Fb. I've heard the story for 30+ years as well. The
: mutations are very extreme from what may have been originally true
: stories of one or more surplus sales (say, in immediate post-war, late
: '40s).
That seems a likely genesis, but then again, for all I know there
were cyclists exclaiming over WWI machines a FOAF had discovered crated
in a warehouse in the Twenties and Thirties.
: To me the really surprising thing is the intensity with which the
: vector at any given time believes the story. I perceived the
: intensity as much greater than, say the intensity of belief with which
: one collects tab-tops for dialysis. Some vectors from which I heard
: the story were almost literally ripping their wallets to get to their
: money so they could "get in on the big surplus deal."
The first time I heard it I was excited by the idea of getting a
cherry Harley for almost nothing--except it all turned to smoke and blew
away when I asked the vector for names and places. This followed soon
after my first encounter with the 'death car' UL in high school. I drove
over much of eastern Missouri looking for the damned thing, tracing the
FOAF chain. This taught me a valuable lesson. It was always in the next
town, no matter where I went. It was enough to keep me from wasting any
time or money on the Harleys.
Will
Ed Horneij
There is a similar UL from Britain:
"If we take the crashed saucer/retrieval accounts as a modern folk-tale,
there should, as with most folk-tales, be parallels elsewhere both in the
past and at the present time. Similarities can be found with other
discovery/secrecy/conspiracy tales. For example, the stories involving
people who know there are underground shelters in the UK which house old
steam locomotives."
Roberts, Andy. "Saucerful of Secrets," in _UFOs 1947-1987: the 40-Year
Search for an Explanation_, compiled and edited by Hilary Evans with John
Spencer for the British UFO Research Association. London, Fortean Tomes,
1987.
-- Ed Horneij