Re: Starving people refuse to eat food aid
Joy Beeson
Heydt) wrote:
> >Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile phone.
>
> I resemble that remark.
So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
spare tube and tire irons.
The band-aid (adhesive plaster/stick-on dressing) that I made good use
of a couple of months ago had been in the emergency kit for at least
ten, possibly twenty years. I was so impressed by its usefullness
that when I replaced it, I also slipped a folded band-aid in with the
razor blade in my emergency sewing kit.
Perhaps I should also slip a razor blade into the first-aid kit. It
does include a needle and thread, and I *have* been known to forget my
wallet.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Dimensional Traveler
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:49:51 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>> Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile phone.
>> I resemble that remark.
>
> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
> spare tube and tire irons.
>
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
Tim McDaniel
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Joy Beeson wrote:
>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>> spare tube and tire irons.
>
>You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
Do some of these phones come with cigarette-lighter-type chargers that
can supply power even if the batteries are ruptured, removed, or
otherwise very very dead? (I'm assuming that the batteries cannot
survive for the specified ten years in the harsh temperature
environment of a car, and they certainly won't hold a charge that
long.)
I've had other benefits decay or expire after years: gift cards, gift
certificates, frequent-flier miles. In particular, my Tracfone's
minutes expired. What plans are currently available for emergency
use, like the ability to use a credit card to place a call or buy
minutes at the time of the call?
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Dorothy J Heydt
Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <4b29e010$0$1611$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
>Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>Joy Beeson wrote:
>>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>>> spare tube and tire irons.
>>
>>You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>
>Do some of these phones come with cigarette-lighter-type chargers that
>can supply power even if the batteries are ruptured, removed, or
>otherwise very very dead? (I'm assuming that the batteries cannot
>survive for the specified ten years in the harsh temperature
>environment of a car, and they certainly won't hold a charge that
>long.)
Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
emergency phone.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Thomas Prufer
>Do some of these phones come with cigarette-lighter-type chargers that
>can supply power even if the batteries are ruptured, removed, or
>otherwise very very dead? (I'm assuming that the batteries cannot
>survive for the specified ten years in the harsh temperature
>environment of a car, and they certainly won't hold a charge that
>long.)
Some old phones will take AA batteries instead of the rechargeable pack, and
sticking lithium batteries should take care of the shelf life. I had one, an
tossed it...
I'm not sure, but looking at the packs, I think it was from the MOTOROLA
A130/D160/CD160/D170 series, and happily took four AA batteries. At least here,
emergency service calls require neither a SIM card nor a contract with any
provider.
Thomas Prufer
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Yes, but unfortunately the batteries won't last for 10 years. Heck,
they'll be self-discharged in at most a matter of months, I think.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
> Some old phones will take AA batteries instead of the rechargeable pack, and
> sticking lithium batteries should take care of the shelf life. I had one, an
> tossed it...
>
> I'm not sure, but looking at the packs, I think it was from the MOTOROLA
> A130/D160/CD160/D170 series, and happily took four AA batteries. At least here,
> emergency service calls require neither a SIM card nor a contract with any
> provider.
>
Even smaller than four AAs. Got a Motorola running on three AAAs.
Michal
David Harmon
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
>batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
>emergency phone.
Then you could make crank calls to 911.
Dorothy J Heydt
If your tongue were any further into your cheek, it'd be
wriggling out your ear.
Bill Snyder
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <dvGdnZuMst4737fW...@earthlink.com>,
>David Harmon <b...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:08 GMT in alt.folklore.urban,
>>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote,
>>>Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
>>>batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
>>>emergency phone.
>>
>>Then you could make crank calls to 911.
>
>If your tongue were any further into your cheek, it'd be
>wriggling out your ear.
Yeah, he was definitely winding you up.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
David Scheidt
:In article <hgcp6k$ru$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
:Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
:>In article <4b29e010$0$1611$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
:>Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
:>>Joy Beeson wrote:
:>>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
:>>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
:>>> spare tube and tire irons.
:>>
:>>You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
:>
:>Do some of these phones come with cigarette-lighter-type chargers that
:>can supply power even if the batteries are ruptured, removed, or
:>otherwise very very dead? (I'm assuming that the batteries cannot
:>survive for the specified ten years in the harsh temperature
:>environment of a car, and they certainly won't hold a charge that
:>long.)
:Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
:batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
:emergency phone.
My hand cranked radio has a way to charge a phone. I no longer have
the phone I've got a cord for, though.
--
sig 37
Tim McDaniel
Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de> wrote:
>At least here, emergency service calls require neither a SIM card nor
>a contract with any provider.
I just did some Googling for
emergency "cell phone"
There's a lot of hits, and unfortunately I don't have time to look at
them from work. I dislike it when people just ask questions without
bothering to look up answers, so I'm sorry for not researching this
in-depth.
<http://andreas.com/faq-cell911.html> looks interesting.
FCC requirements state that ALL cell phones, regardless of status
of service (or even the lack of service) must be able to dial
911. Whether you have a telephone number or not, whether you have
signed up for service or not, your cell phone can connect to 911.
However, 911 in the US is a pretty serious call. It connects to fire
/ police / rescue squad. I believe that if you hang up without
satisfying the operator that the situation is OK, the operator will
scramble a police car to see what's up. E.g., "Oops, sorry,
misdialed" *click* is, I think, the sort of thing that triggers police
response. (The scenario that would concern me would be an abducted
person getting access to a phone and dialing 911, and the abductor
noticing and grabbing the phone.)
In particular, I suspect you can't use 911 to reach a tow truck.
That page also contains
You can also buy emergency cell phones without service at
CraigsList.com, eBay.com, etc. Used digital phones sell for less
than $15.
In many areas, you can place other calls as well. Test this by
dialing a friend's number and see what happens. You may get an
operator who will offer to place the call for you and bill your
credit card. The call may cost up to $3 per minute, but that's
cheaper than paying $15/month for years. You can use this if you
have a flat tire and so on.
In some areas, when you press 0 (zero) or dial a number, an
operator will answer and ask if you want to charge the call to
your credit card. Just use your credit card to place the call. You
can also have the phone reprogrammed. Reprogramming enables the
cell phone to make credit card calls. Some services can reprogram
phones for about $30.
Another hit points to Jitterbug's page,
<http://www.jitterbug.com/Resources/emergency-cell-phones.aspx>.
Jitterbug provides simple mobile phones. There's also a hit for
"Quick guide to emergency cell phone chargers - CNET Reviews", albeit
from 2006.
So it looks like it's a Simple Matter of Research.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
John Francis
Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>However, 911 in the US is a pretty serious call. It connects to fire
>/ police / rescue squad. I believe that if you hang up without
>satisfying the operator that the situation is OK, the operator will
>scramble a police car to see what's up. E.g., "Oops, sorry,
>misdialed" *click* is, I think, the sort of thing that triggers police
>response.
Close. "Oops, sorry, misdialed" would probably be OK. It's hanging
up without saying anything that gets police cars on your doorstep.
In fact a friend of mine was making exactly that point to his
9?-year-old daughter yesterday (and apologising to his local police).
Default User
I believe the minutes on prepaid phones expire fairly quickly.
Brian
--
Day 318 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
R H Draney
>
>Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>
>I believe the minutes on prepaid phones expire fairly quickly.
Not the minutes themselves, but the length of the "account" is pretty
short...twice I've had a prepaid phone go away because I failed to "purchase and
activate" another airtime card within sixty days of the last one (despite having
hundreds of minutes left), and had to get a new number...but I've got minutes on
my current prepaid phone that have been there since the turn of the century....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
James
online.de.invalid> wrote:
I received as a gift an external charger for cell phones that requires
4AA batteries. I've seen them in various stores as well. I haven't
tested it out, but unless I was in a blackout, I can't see where I'd
use it. If I forget a wall charger, I'd forget a battery charger too.
James
erilar
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
> >
>
> Yes, but unfortunately the batteries won't last for 10 years. Heck,
> they'll be self-discharged in at most a matter of months, I think.
Phones that are turned off for weeks at a time don't discharge very
fast. My daughter suggested I should LET mine discharge and then
recharge it occasionally. She knows a lot more about them than I do. In
fact, the only reason I even have one is that it's on her family plan.
They cost too much for someone like me otherwise. It's either in my
car, or in my pocket when I go walking in wintertime, turned off unless
I want to use it. If I were to fall and injure myself too badly to get
up, my dog would probably like my face, but she would not go for help.
There's not a lot of traffic along this road in wintertime. Some people
use them at home, but they don't live under 8" of reinforced concrete
and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not very good here 8-)
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
erilar
Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
The charger for my phone plugs into a regular outlet, but my car has
one. The problem with a stand-alone phone would be getting minutes
that don't expire. My phone "minutes" cost my daughter less than $2 a
month, which she won't let me pay.
Wayne Throop
: Some people use [cell phones] at home, but they don't live under 8" of
: reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not very
: good here 8-)
Cellular repeaters.
There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
They are, however, quite expensive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_repeater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femtocell
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Dimensional Traveler
_any_ 911 call, regardless of paid/unpaid/our customer/their
customer/etc status.
The battery is a different issue. Has anyone experimented with how long
a cell phone's battery will hold charge if its not in the phone?
Dimensional Traveler
All the 911 personnel I worked with were very understanding about a
kid calling as long as they could talk to an adult to verify the
situation. But if they call back and don't get an answer, get a busy
signal or someone who just sounds hinky, a nice officer will be by to
see you soon. (Insert the usual boilerplate about response varying by
jurisdiction and how busy they are.)
erilar
wrote:
> : erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
> : Some people use [cell phones] at home, but they don't live under 8" of
> : reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not very
> : good here 8-)
>
> Cellular repeaters.
> There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
> in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
My internet connection is a cable modem under my desk. My daughter
asked me why I don't bother with a password. I can't access it from my
own front yard!
Keith F. Lynch
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
>> Some people use [cell phones] at home, but they don't live under 8"
>> of reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not
>> very good here 8-)
> Cellular repeaters.
> There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
> in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
> They are, however, quite expensive.
What's the advantage over a landline with a base station and a
cordless phone?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Keith F. Lynch
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
> I believe the minutes on prepaid phones expire fairly quickly.
That's obnoxious and pointless.
The first generation of prepaid long distance phone cards had minutes
that expired. I only bought one when they had minutes that didn't
expire. I am a *very* light user of long distance. And I don't see
why that means I should have to choose between paying several dollars
per month for a service I don't use at all most months, or paying
several dollars per minute when I do make a long distance call.
Strobe
>In article <hgcp6k$ru$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <4b29e010$0$1611$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
>>Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>Joy Beeson wrote:
>>>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>>>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>>>> spare tube and tire irons.
>>>
>>>You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>>
>>Do some of these phones come with cigarette-lighter-type chargers that
>>can supply power even if the batteries are ruptured, removed, or
>>otherwise very very dead? (I'm assuming that the batteries cannot
>>survive for the specified ten years in the harsh temperature
>>environment of a car, and they certainly won't hold a charge that
>>long.)
>
>Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
>batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
>emergency phone.
Several of those radios are now advertised to have a socket
for phone recharging.
Not that it'd help if it's an area blackout - the cell towers will be dead.
BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be SOL;
their own base station will be dead.
Must keep a plain old $5 plug-in phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges
have enough battery power for a couple of hours.
Wayne Throop
::: of reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not
::: very good here 8-)
:: Cellular repeaters.
:: There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
:: in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
: erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
: My internet connection is a cable modem under my desk. My daughter
: asked me why I don't bother with a password. I can't access it from
: my own front yard!
I'm not sure why (or if) that's supposed to be relevant.
But I note that access to the modem (I presume by wifi) has little or
nothing to do with whether a cellular repeater or a femtocell would
work inside the house. In the case of a repeater, the notion is to run
an antenna outside to catch the signal, and repeat it inside. In the
case of a femtocell, it provides a cell site inside the house which gets
access to the phone network through your wired internet connection to
your ISP. I'm guessing (based on your carrying your phone for walks)
that you have cellular service outside. These two notions are ways
to use a wire to get through the concretee and dirt to supply a signal
inside. In no event is there a need for wireless signals to penetrate
your EM shielding. In a repeater, the phone traffic goes through the
sheilding on a dedicated antenna wire. In a femtocell, it goes through
the sheilding on your cable connection.
Keith F. Lynch
> Close. "Oops, sorry, misdialed" would probably be OK. It's hanging
> up without saying anything that gets police cars on your doorstep.
> In fact a friend of mine was making exactly that point to his
> 9?-year-old daughter yesterday (and apologising to his local police).
ObUL: A rotting tomato once dialed 911.
Keith F. Lynch
My hand-cranked flashlight has a way to charge one model of cell
phone, but I've never had any kind of cell phone. Anyhow, you only
get about as many minutes of talk time as you spend cranking. I'm not
sure whether it would work if the phone's battery can no longer hold
a charge. (The flashlight has its own rechargable battery, so it's
possible.)
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>John Francis <jo...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Close. "Oops, sorry, misdialed" would probably be OK. It's hanging
>> up without saying anything that gets police cars on your doorstep.
>> In fact a friend of mine was making exactly that point to his
>> 9?-year-old daughter yesterday (and apologising to his local police).
>
>ObUL: A rotting tomato once dialed 911.
ObNews: somebody threw two of them at Palin today. Missed her,
hit a police officer. *sigh*
Wayne Throop
:: in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
:: They are, however, quite expensive.
: "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
: What's the advantage over a landline with a base station and a
: cordless phone?
The advantage is you don't have to pay the 50 bucks a month for a
landline, and you don't have to buy separate handsets to use in the
house, and if you have guests, they will bring their own handsets so
you don't have to provide them in the event they need to make a call.
And so forth.
Of course, all these advantages are of interest only if you already
have a cellphone, use it a lot, and so can do without a landline
if you want to.
(I note that in the power failures around here recently, my ISP remained
up, so I could have used my cellphone via a femtocell. Of course,
in reality, I could use my cellphone via the (weak) cell signal we get
here, but I don't buy cellular data service, so having the wifi go out
through the cable meant I could monitor the status of the work on the
power lines via my netbook.) (Battery backup lasts quite a long time if
you are only running the cable modem and wifi router on upses intended
for a whole computer plus lcd panel with electroluminescent backlight.)
(And the netbook lasts 5 hours on its own, continuous; more if left
to sleep when not in use.) (Plus, if things were really extended,
an inverter could run everything necessary from the car... you know,
built-in backup gas-powered generator.) (But I digress.)
Keith F. Lynch
> BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be
> SOL; their own base station will be dead. Must keep a plain old $5
> plug-in phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges have enough
> battery power for a couple of hours.
And they have generators for longer power outages. I've never lost
phone service due to a power outage.
Cell towers don't also have battery and generator backups?
Strobe
wrote:
>Strobe <Str...@nyc.Beep!Beep!.com> wrote:
>> BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be
>> SOL; their own base station will be dead. Must keep a plain old $5
>> plug-in phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges have enough
>> battery power for a couple of hours.
>
>And they have generators for longer power outages. I've never lost
>phone service due to a power outage.
>
>Cell towers don't also have battery and generator backups?
I'd expect the major ones.
But I was thinking of the multiple repeaters around the city; UPS would add a
lot to the cost, most just tap into whatever building they're on top of.
Keith F. Lynch
> Yes, but unfortunately the batteries won't last for 10 years. Heck,
> they'll be self-discharged in at most a matter of months, I think.
Does that depend on whether they're kept in the phone? I've noticed
that a lot of recent electronics draws current even when it's
supposedly off. Shoddy engineering.
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own batteries with
>>> a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an emergency phone.
>
>> My hand cranked radio has a way to charge a phone. I no longer have
>> the phone I've got a cord for, though.
>
>My hand-cranked flashlight has a way to charge one model of cell
>phone, but I've never had any kind of cell phone. Anyhow, you only
>get about as many minutes of talk time as you spend cranking.
The ratio's a little higher for running the radio. Hal says half
an hour of listening for a minute of cranking; but he hasn't
tested it. That's because the radio is a passive receiver but
the cell phone has to transmit. Still, in an emergency, a minute
of talking for a minute of cranking could be very valuable.
And I haven't forgotten that in the likeliest kind of emergency
around here, which would be a major earthquake, the cell phones
would be useless because the towers would be down. But if one
had some *other* kind of emergency...
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be
>> SOL; their own base station will be dead. Must keep a plain old $5
>> plug-in phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges have enough
>> battery power for a couple of hours.
>
>And they have generators for longer power outages. I've never lost
>phone service due to a power outage.
>
>Cell towers don't also have battery and generator backups?
They have batteries, which are good for about six hours. They
don't have generators. But the phone company's Central Offices
have both batteries and auto-fired generators. The expected run
time for a CO without supervision is about two weeks -- if the
generator kicks in as it's supposed to. During the Loma Prieta
earthquake, one (and only one) CO generator didn't kick in: it
ran down its batteries and stopped. All the rest kept going till
they could be reached by emergency crews and tended to. That is
why the landlines (of which there were a lot more in 1989) stayed
up after the earthquake, and a lot of news, gossip, fact-sharing
was propagated over USENET.
Wayne Throop
: BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be SOL;
: phone for such emergencies;
Or, a battery backup. Or a car with an inverter.
Or an emergency jumpstart battery with an inverter.
All of which I have to hand here for other reasons.
But then, I also have a plain old $5 plug-in phone.
Doesn't take much space; it's smaller than the palm of my hand.
Something vaguely like
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2079
but I got it years and years ago. The main problem is it's plenty
small enough to get lost in the back of "misc stuff" drawyers.
But not a problem as long as I've got it plugged in next to the
answerng machine.
Keith F. Lynch
> And I haven't forgotten that in the likeliest kind of emergency
> around here, which would be a major earthquake, the cell phones
> would be useless because the towers would be down. But if one
> had some *other* kind of emergency...
"Down" meaning physically collapsed? Those things are pretty solidly
built. If an earthquake is strong enough to knock them down, there
probably wouldn't be anyone available to rescue you, nor would the
roads be passable even if there were.
Dimensional Traveler
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> Yes, but unfortunately the batteries won't last for 10 years. Heck,
>> they'll be self-discharged in at most a matter of months, I think.
>
> Does that depend on whether they're kept in the phone? I've noticed
> that a lot of recent electronics draws current even when it's
> supposedly off. Shoddy engineering.
A lot of recent electronics has to be able to read the signal from the
remote control telling it to "turn on".
Wayne Throop
: "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
: "Down" meaning physically collapsed?
Down as in metaphorically collapsed. As in "the server is down".
Step right over and watch me put it down
Squirrels! Squirrels!
--- Squirrels in My Pants, Phineas and Ferb
John F. Eldredge
> Joy Beeson wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:49:51 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile phone.
>>> I resemble that remark.
>>
>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>> spare tube and tire irons.
>>
> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
Yes, but the battery isn't going to hold a charge for ten years. On the
other hand, I would not be surprised if someone manufactures a hand-
cranked cell-phone charger, given that there are a number of brands of
hand-cranked flashlights and radios on the market.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Dorothy J Heydt
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> And I haven't forgotten that in the likeliest kind of emergency
>> around here, which would be a major earthquake, the cell phones
>> would be useless because the towers would be down. But if one
>> had some *other* kind of emergency...
>
>"Down" meaning physically collapsed? Those things are pretty solidly
>built. If an earthquake is strong enough to knock them down, there
>probably wouldn't be anyone available to rescue you, nor would the
>roads be passable even if there were.
Physically collapsed, out of power, or both.
John F. Eldredge
> Strobe <Str...@nyc.Beep!Beep!.com> wrote:
>> BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be SOL;
>> their own base station will be dead. Must keep a plain old $5 plug-in
>> phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges have enough battery
>> power for a couple of hours.
>
> And they have generators for longer power outages. I've never lost
> phone service due to a power outage.
>
> Cell towers don't also have battery and generator backups?
Depending upon the nature of the emergency, it may be difficult for fuel
trucks to make it to the towers to refill the fuel tanks. A major
hurricane, for instance, will not only blow down a lot of power lines but
will also dump fallen trees and other debris onto the roadways.
Mike Ash
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article <12610...@sheol.org>, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
> wrote:
>
> > : erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
> > : Some people use [cell phones] at home, but they don't live under 8" of
> > : reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not very
> > : good here 8-)
> >
> > Cellular repeaters.
> > There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
> > in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
>
> My internet connection is a cable modem under my desk. My daughter
> asked me why I don't bother with a password. I can't access it from my
> own front yard!
You might reconsider. You, with standard equipment, can't access it from
your own front yard. Someone versed in wifi technology can probably put
together an antenna that would allow him to access your network from
several miles away.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Tim McDaniel
>auto-fired generators. The expected run time for a CO without
>supervision is about two weeks
I looked into this a year or two ago. I recall reading that phone
companies have been skimping on such disaster capability. Also, I was
looking after a massive ice storm, when lots of limbs took out both
power lines and phone lines.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <hgempi$3ec$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>John Francis <jo...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Close. "Oops, sorry, misdialed" would probably be OK. It's hanging
>>> up without saying anything that gets police cars on your doorstep.
>>> In fact a friend of mine was making exactly that point to his
>>> 9?-year-old daughter yesterday (and apologising to his local police).
>>
>>ObUL: A rotting tomato once dialed 911.
>
>ObNews: somebody threw two of them at Palin today. Missed her,
>hit a police officer. *sigh*
The thrower has my sympathy; during a riot in Pittsburgh many years
ago someone threw a snowball at my apartment window, so I scraped snow
off the ledge and threw one back -- and hit a cop, whereupon three of
Pittsburgh's finest came charging up the stairs to inform me that they
weren't happy with me.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
David Scheidt
:Strobe <Str...@nyc.Beep!Beep!.com> wrote:
:> BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be
:> SOL; their own base station will be dead. Must keep a plain old $5
:> plug-in phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges have enough
:> battery power for a couple of hours.
that assumes, probably niavely, that you're actually directly
connected to the CO. In the US, many lines that were formerly wired
such have been changed so that the copper ends at a box in the
neighborhood. Fiber (or sometimes multipair copper trunks) connects
the box to the CO. The box has commercial power to provide batter
voltage to the subscriber lines, and batteries. Which, if they're
good, and charged, and batteries increased in size when the equipment
in the box gets expanded, will last a couple to six or eight hours.
:And they have generators for longer power outages. I've never lost
:phone service due to a power outage.
I do every time the power goes out for more than six hours. Sometimes
they bring a generator trailer to the box. Sometimes they don't.
:Cell towers don't also have battery and generator backups?
Batteries usually. Generators are rare, but some places do have them.
And some of the buildings the radios are on have them.
--
sig 34
cryptoguy
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:08 GMT, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <hgcp6k$r...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >Tim McDaniel <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>In article <4b29e010$0$1611$742ec...@news.sonic.net>,
> >>Dimensional Traveler <dtra...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >>>Joy Beeson wrote:
> >>>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
> >>>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
> >>>> spare tube and tire irons.
>
> >>>You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>
> >>Do some of these phones come with cigarette-lighter-type chargers that
> >>can supply power even if the batteries are ruptured, removed, or
> >>otherwise very very dead? (I'm assuming that the batteries cannot
> >>survive for the specified ten years in the harsh temperature
> >>environment of a car, and they certainly won't hold a charge that
> >>long.)
>
> >Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
> >batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
> >emergency phone.
>
> Several of those radios are now advertised to have a socket
> for phone recharging.
> Not that it'd help if it's an area blackout - the cell towers will be dead.
Cell towers here have generators, which cut in automatically when the
power goes out, with at least a couple days of fuel.
> BTW, those who do have landline but with cordless phones will be SOL;
> their own base station will be dead.
> Must keep a plain old $5 plug-in phone for such emergencies; landline exchanges
> have enough battery power for a couple of hours.
Indeed, when my area lost power for 6 days due to an icestorm last
winter, the cellphones worked, but the only landline on the street
still usable was mine; a couple my phones are hardwired and line-
powered. Everyone else had gone to cordless, digital, and cable
phones.
pt
David Scheidt
:> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
:>> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
:> I believe the minutes on prepaid phones expire fairly quickly.
:That's obnoxious and pointless.
Hardly pointless. It makes money for the phone company. (And lets
their accountants sleep at nights. they worry about how to book
revenue from things sold years ago...)
--
sig 45
cryptoguy
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:38:57 -0800, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > Joy Beeson wrote:
> >> wrote:
>
> >>>> Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile phone.
> >>> I resemble that remark.
>
> >> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
> >> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
> >> spare tube and tire irons.
>
> > You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>
> Yes, but the battery isn't going to hold a charge for ten years. On the
> other hand, I would not be surprised if someone manufactures a hand-
> cranked cell-phone charger, given that there are a number of brands of
> hand-cranked flashlights and radios on the market.
http://thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/sidewinder.htm
Doubles as a hand-cranked flashlight.
Cheaper are pods that you fill with AAs, and use to charge a
cellphone.
pt
David DeLaney
>"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
>: What's the advantage over a landline with a base station and a
>: cordless phone?
>
>The advantage is you don't have to pay the 50 bucks a month for a
>landline,
... ???
Landlines are half that.
("Landline" service provided by your local cable company might be that much;
around here, the cable company actually wants MORE to provide Just Internet
than it does to provide cable/phone/internet bundled together.)
Plus you can't get DSL without a landline. (You can get other varieties of
broadband; for me, the others all have disadvantages.)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> Yes, but unfortunately the batteries won't last for 10 years. Heck,
>> they'll be self-discharged in at most a matter of months, I think.
>
> Does that depend on whether they're kept in the phone? I've noticed
> that a lot of recent electronics draws current even when it's
> supposedly off. Shoddy engineering.
Not shoddy engineering in many cases; in a lot of cases the devices are
never, actually, "off" because they're doing something even in their
putative "off" state.
But yes, if you put batteries of just about ANY sort (there's one
exception I'm pretty sure of and there may be a couple others, but none
of them are common) in storage for 10 years, they'll likely be deader
than the dinosaurs when they come out, whether they were in a device or
not. This is one of the issues the U.S. Military has to face in
situations where they have equipment which may be stored for very long
periods of time.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Wayne Throop
::: cordless phone?
:: The advantage is you don't have to pay the 50 bucks a month for a
:: landline,
: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
: .... ??? Landlines are half that.
Eh. Landline, maybe. But when you add in a local calling plan and
long-distance service, it gets you to 50 bucks quick. Possibly the
regulators are lax where I've had experience. Possibly there's some magic
way to pare features away and still have the phone usable. But 50 bucks
is what the combined bill is that keeps the landline working, even if,
I agree, that no single discrete itemized charge on the bill is much
over 25. Where I'm familiar, 25 gets you a dial tone, 911 service,
and not much else.
Thomas Prufer
>Damfino. But Hal has an emergency radio that charges its own
>batteries with a *crank*. Somebody should adapt that for an
>emergency phone.
You rang, ma'am?
http://www.freeplayenergy.com/product/freecharge12v
I apologize for the delay, ma'am, we wuz cranking to run the electric waffle
iron.
Thomas Prufer
Dimensional Traveler
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
>
> The battery is a different issue. Has anyone experimented with how long
> a cell phone's battery will hold charge if its not in the phone?
>
A particular Li-Ion one in a Siemens ME45 left for something like 8
months in a drawer kept enough for at least 24 h of standby and some 10
minutes worth of calls. _But_ the drawer is dry and fairly constant
temperature.
Michal
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> Joy Beeson wrote:
>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile
>>>>> phone.
>>>> I resemble that remark.
>>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>>> spare tube and tire irons.
>> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>
>
>
Michal
Mike Ash
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
Sure, but the rest of it all implied a wifi network, probably with the
wifi router built into the cable modem. Plain cable modems don't have
passwords in the first place, and can't be accessed from anywhere you
haven't dragged a wire.
David DeLaney
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>: .... ??? Landlines are half that.
>
>Eh. Landline, maybe. But when you add in a local calling plan and
>long-distance service, it gets you to 50 bucks quick. Possibly the
>regulators are lax where I've had experience. Possibly there's some magic
>way to pare features away and still have the phone usable. But 50 bucks
>is what the combined bill is that keeps the landline working, even if,
>I agree, that no single discrete itemized charge on the bill is much
>over 25. Where I'm familiar, 25 gets you a dial tone, 911 service,
>and not much else.
Well, I don't _need_ much else. It gets me dial tone, touch-tone, "charge for
not having any long-distance service each month", and the various things they
charge everyone for because the Federal Gummint says they have to supply said
services to EVERYONE and heck if they're gonna pay for even one penny of it
out of endowments or investment or income from other services or whatever.
No 3-way calling, no call waiting, no cell phone connected to the line, no
answering service, no voicemail, etc. Just plain phone.
James
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:45:26 GMT, Wayne Throop <thro...@sheol.org> wrote:
> >"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
> >: What's the advantage over a landline with a base station and a
> >: cordless phone?
>
> >The advantage is you don't have to pay the 50 bucks a month for a
> >landline,
>
> ... ???
>
> Landlines are half that.
>
> ("Landline" service provided by your local cable company might be that much;
> around here, the cable company actually wants MORE to provide Just Internet
> than it does to provide cable/phone/internet bundled together.)
>
> Plus you can't get DSL without a landline. (You can get other varieties of
> broadband; for me, the others all have disadvantages.)
TWIAVBP David,
In Ontario, you can get DSL without a land line, its called "dry" DSL.
Not every provider will do it though, it takes more setup. Obviously
there had to have been a landline in place at some point, the wire
still has to be there, but you don't have to be using the telephony
pair at all.
James
James
> John Francis wrote:
> > In article <hgdm39$ki...@reader1.panix.com>,
> > Tim McDaniel <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> However, 911 in the US is a pretty serious call. It connects to fire
> >> / police / rescue squad. I believe that if you hang up without
> >> satisfying the operator that the situation is OK, the operator will
> >> scramble a police car to see what's up. E.g., "Oops, sorry,
> >> misdialed" *click* is, I think, the sort of thing that triggers police
> >> response.
>
> > Close. "Oops, sorry, misdialed" would probably be OK. It's hanging
> > up without saying anything that gets police cars on your doorstep.
> > In fact a friend of mine was making exactly that point to his
> > 9?-year-old daughter yesterday (and apologising to his local police).
>
> All the 911 personnel I worked with were very understanding about a
> kid calling as long as they could talk to an adult to verify the
> situation. But if they call back and don't get an answer, get a busy
> signal or someone who just sounds hinky, a nice officer will be by to
> see you soon. (Insert the usual boilerplate about response varying by
> jurisdiction and how busy they are.)
Years back, when my son was three years(and two months) old, my wife
fainted in the bathroom and was unconscious.
My son dialled 911 and when asked about the nature of the emergency,
he replied "help, mommy sick". He wasn't the most talkative kid at
that age, but weeks earlier he had seen an ambulance come to a
neighbours house and he had asked about why they came etc. He hung up,
not realizing the people at the other end wanted to talk. They
immediately dispatched police, fire and ambulance, and called back.
So at least in our jurisdiction, they weren't taking any chances. The
police called me once they arrived and assessed the scene.
We heard the recording of the call at the press conference. The
conference wasn't my idea or desire, but it seemed to be the way to
get the reporters to stop calling. The police press officer was having
a field day.
James
Hatunen
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:49:51 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>> >Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile phone.
>>
>> I resemble that remark.
>
>So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>spare tube and tire irons.
In the USA it is required thatn any cell phone, even one not
subscribed to a service, be able to call 911.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Default User
> In case of emergency calls you need no minutes...
Yes, but 911 calls aren't the only thing you'd want an "emergency"
phone for. You don't call 911 when the car stalls out on the interstate
somewhere at night, at least you'd better not.
Brian
--
Day 319 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Kurt Busiek
We have an "AirPort" attached to our cable modem, which gives us a wifi
network. So it's certainly doable from a cable modem.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
>>>> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>>> I believe the minutes on prepaid phones expire fairly quickly.
>>>
>>>
>> In case of emergency calls you need no minutes...
>
> Yes, but 911 calls aren't the only thing you'd want an "emergency"
> phone for. You don't call 911 when the car stalls out on the interstate
> somewhere at night, at least you'd better not.
>
Michał
"Michal Dwuznik (Michał Dwużnik)"
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:14:09 -0500, Joy Beeson
> <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:49:51 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>> Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile phone.
>>> I resemble that remark.
>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
>> chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
>> spare tube and tire irons.
>
> In the USA it is required thatn any cell phone, even one not
> subscribed to a service, be able to call 911.
>
>
Michal
David Scheidt
Why not? I've never been scolded when I've done so, nor has anyone I
know.
--
sig 85
trag
> The first generation of prepaid long distance phone cards had minutes
> that expired. I only bought one when they had minutes that didn't
> expire. I am a *very* light user of long distance. And I don't see
> why that means I should have to choose between paying several dollars
> per month for a service I don't use at all most months, or paying
> several dollars per minute when I do make a long distance call.
The first one I bought did not expire. The next group (a few years
ago) all said they expired after one year in the fine ptint. But I
found one card that did not. However, they (AT&T) charged 5X the
normal minutely rate for intrastate calls. I didn't notice that
gotcha until after I had bought them and made a call. Now I use an
online long distance "calling card" company. Theirs expire if you go
for more than a year without making a call, but every time you use
your account, the clock is reset to one year.
Quadibloc
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> But yes, if you put batteries of just about ANY sort (there's one
> exception I'm pretty sure of and there may be a couple others, but none
> of them are common) in storage for 10 years, they'll likely be deader
> than the dinosaurs when they come out, whether they were in a device or
> not. This is one of the issues the U.S. Military has to face in
> situations where they have equipment which may be stored for very long
> periods of time.
One exception I can think of is mercury batteries, but of course
mercury is now frowned upon as evil and toxic.
John Savard
David Scheidt
:On Dec 17, 10:26�pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
:<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
the military uses a number of weird battery chemistries. LiSO2 and
Li/MnO2, for two. (Li/SO2 batteries are out of favor, becaues they
blow up. )
--
sig 39
Default User
That surprises me. What did they do for you?
Don Freeman
>> Default User wrote:
>>> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joy Beeson wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:49:51 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tens of millions of Americans don't have any kind of mobile
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>> I resemble that remark.
>>>>> So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I
>>>>> could chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten
>>>>> years, like my spare tube and tire irons.
>>>> You can buy pre-paid "disposable" cell phones.
>>> I believe the minutes on prepaid phones expire fairly quickly.
I use Virgin Mobile's prepaid plan, the minutes never expire unless you
just don't use the phone for a few months. And even then you can have
them restored.
--
-Don
David Scheidt
:> In alt.folklore.urban Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:> :Yes, but 911 calls aren't the only thing you'd want an "emergency"
:> :phone for. You don't call 911 when the car stalls out on the
:> interstate :somewhere at night, at least you'd better not.
:>
:> Why not? I've never been scolded when I've done so, nor has anyone I
:> know.
:That surprises me. What did they do for you?
Why does it surprise you? A car stalled on the highway is a dangerous
situation, even one on the shoulder. (They sent a cop; he called a
tow truck.)
--
sig 90
Hatunen
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> And I haven't forgotten that in the likeliest kind of emergency
>> around here, which would be a major earthquake, the cell phones
>> would be useless because the towers would be down. But if one
>> had some *other* kind of emergency...
>
>"Down" meaning physically collapsed? Those things are pretty solidly
>built. If an earthquake is strong enough to knock them down, there
>probably wouldn't be anyone available to rescue you, nor would the
>roads be passable even if there were.
Driving around any urban area you can see cell antennas on all
kinds of structures, apartment buildings, office towers, water
towers, etc. A lot of them could very well come down in an
earthquake, especially in areas that may not have building codes
for earthquakes.
Default User
> In alt.folklore.urban Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> :David Scheidt wrote:
>
> :> In alt.folklore.urban Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> :> :Yes, but 911 calls aren't the only thing you'd want an "emergency"
> :> :phone for. You don't call 911 when the car stalls out on the
> :> interstate :somewhere at night, at least you'd better not.
> :>
> :> Why not? I've never been scolded when I've done so, nor has
> anyone I :> know.
>
> :That surprises me. What did they do for you?
>
> Why does it surprise you? A car stalled on the highway is a dangerous
> situation, even one on the shoulder. (They sent a cop; he called a
> tow truck.)
Ok, let's substitute a non-functioning car in a non-dangerous area.
erilar
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <hgempi$3ec$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >John Francis <jo...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> Close. "Oops, sorry, misdialed" would probably be OK. It's hanging
> >> up without saying anything that gets police cars on your doorstep.
> >> In fact a friend of mine was making exactly that point to his
> >> 9?-year-old daughter yesterday (and apologising to his local police).
> >
> >ObUL: A rotting tomato once dialed 911.
>
> ObNews: somebody threw two of them at Palin today. Missed her,
> hit a police officer. *sigh*
What a pity!
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
erilar
Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> In article <drache-38FE75....@nothing.attdns.com>,
> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In article <12610...@sheol.org>, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > : erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
> > > : Some people use [cell phones] at home, but they don't live under 8" of
> > > : reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not very
> > > : good here 8-)
> > >
> > > Cellular repeaters.
> > > There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
> > > in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
> >
> > My internet connection is a cable modem under my desk. My daughter
> > asked me why I don't bother with a password. I can't access it from my
> > own front yard!
>
> You might reconsider. You, with standard equipment, can't access it from
> your own front yard. Someone versed in wifi technology can probably put
> together an antenna that would allow him to access your network from
> several miles away.
I really doubt that. House is reinforced concrete slabs covered about
90% with 3 or more feet of dirt. The cable modem is less than a foot
above the floor.
erilar
Oh, my laptop communicates with it wirelessly, but only inside the house.
Dimensional Traveler
> David Scheidt wrote:
>
>> In alt.folklore.urban Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> :David Scheidt wrote:
>>
>> :> In alt.folklore.urban Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> :> :Yes, but 911 calls aren't the only thing you'd want an "emergency"
>> :> :phone for. You don't call 911 when the car stalls out on the
>> :> interstate :somewhere at night, at least you'd better not.
>> :>
>> :> Why not? I've never been scolded when I've done so, nor has
>> anyone I :> know.
>>
>> :That surprises me. What did they do for you?
>>
>> Why does it surprise you? A car stalled on the highway is a dangerous
>> situation, even one on the shoulder. (They sent a cop; he called a
>> tow truck.)
>
> Ok, let's substitute a non-functioning car in a non-dangerous area.
>
erilar
> ::: Some people use [cell phones] at home, but they don't live under 8"
> ::: of reinforced concrete and 3-4 feet of dirt. Reception is just not
> ::: very good here 8-)
>
> :: Cellular repeaters.
> :: There are also widgets to get you a portable cellphone base station
> :: in areas with no service at all, if you have broadband internet.
>
> : erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
> : My internet connection is a cable modem under my desk. My daughter
> : asked me why I don't bother with a password. I can't access it from
> : my own front yard!
>
> I'm not sure why (or if) that's supposed to be relevant.
> But I note that access to the modem (I presume by wifi) has little or
> nothing to do with whether a cellular repeater or a femtocell would
> work inside the house. In the case of a repeater, the notion is to run
> an antenna outside to catch the signal, and repeat it inside. In the
> case of a femtocell, it provides a cell site inside the house which gets
> access to the phone network through your wired internet connection to
> your ISP. I'm guessing (based on your carrying your phone for walks)
> that you have cellular service outside. These two notions are ways
> to use a wire to get through the concretee and dirt to supply a signal
> inside. In no event is there a need for wireless signals to penetrate
> your EM shielding. In a repeater, the phone traffic goes through the
> sheilding on a dedicated antenna wire. In a femtocell, it goes through
> the sheilding on your cable connection.
I've been told there is a way I could get the signal out to the yard,
but I have so little need for that that I've never pursued the notion.
I did notice, the one time I tried it, that my computer found someone
else's wi-fi in the neighborhood. . .
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> "Down" meaning physically collapsed? Those things are pretty
>> solidly built. If an earthquake is strong enough to knock them
>> down, there probably wouldn't be anyone available to rescue you,
>> nor would the roads be passable even if there were.
> Driving around any urban area you can see cell antennas on all kinds
> of structures, apartment buildings, office towers, water towers,
> etc. A lot of them could very well come down in an earthquake,
> especially in areas that may not have building codes for earthquakes.
There's a lot of overlap between cells, so the majority of cell towers
within range of your phone would have to come down to seriously
disrupt your service.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Wayne Throop
: I've been told there is a way I could get the signal out to the yard,
: I did notice, the one time I tried it, that my computer found someone
: else's wi-fi in the neighborhood. . .
Yeah, but you still seem to be talking about how to get
a wifi signal outside, whereas I was talking about how to get
a cellular signal inside. The shift in topic may be intentional on
your part, but it seemed a bit of a non-sequitur, so I wasn't sure.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Warren Oates
Don Freeman <free...@cosmoslair.com> wrote:
> I use Virgin Mobile's prepaid plan, the minutes never expire unless you
> just don't use the phone for a few months. And even then you can have
> them restored.
Not in Ontario. I have to "top up" before a specific date, or I lose the
money that's gathered in the account. I _have_ had the money restored
once when I forgot, but I had to write a nice letter to the customer
service department to get it.
I'm pretty much satisfied with Virgin Mobile though. I think they're
owned by Bell Canada now though.
--
Very old woody beets will never cook tender.
-- Fannie Farmer
Keith F. Lynch
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> David Scheidt wrote:
>>> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes, but 911 calls aren't the only thing you'd want an
>>>> "emergency" phone for. You don't call 911 when the car
>>>> stalls out on the interstate somewhere at night, at least
>>>> you'd better not.
>>> Why not? I've never been scolded when I've done so, nor has
>>> anyone I know.
Because 911 is supposed to only be for emergencies, i.e. situations
in which life or property is at significant risk.
>> That surprises me. What did they do for you?
> Why does it surprise you? A car stalled on the highway is a
> dangerous situation, even one on the shoulder. (They sent a
> cop; he called a tow truck.)
Why would it be dangerous on a shoulder? I'll grant that some
interstate highways no longer have shoulders. On I-66 near here, for
instance, the shoulders have been long since converted into additional
travel lanes. But speeds on that highway are usually far too slow to
be dangerous.
On the other hand, I'm reminded of an infamous case where someone
phoned 911 to report a mattress on a highway, only to be scolded by
the 911 operator for dialing 911 about something so trivial. So the
caller said she'd call back when someone was killed. Soon someone
was. I wonder what happened to that operator?
Keith F. Lynch
> I use Virgin Mobile's prepaid plan, the minutes never expire unless
> you just don't use the phone for a few months. And even then you
> can have them restored.
Why do they make you go through the extra step of having them
restored? Why don't they just never expire, period?
Keith F. Lynch
> One exception I can think of is mercury batteries, but of course
> mercury is now frowned upon as evil and toxic.
That's why mercury-containing fluorescent lights will soon be
mandatory in the US.
danny burstein
>Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> One exception I can think of is mercury batteries, but of course
>> mercury is now frowned upon as evil and toxic.
>That's why mercury-containing fluorescent lights will soon be
>mandatory in the US.
ummm, no.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>> That's why mercury-containing fluorescent lights will soon be
>> mandatory in the US.
> ummm, no.
Well, okay, it's incandescents that will be banned. Mercury-containing
fluorescents are merely being heavily pushed as a replacement, not
mandated. You're free to use some third alternative, such as candles
or arc lights. Or to remain in the dark whenever the sun is down.
Keith F. Lynch
> The first one I bought did not expire. The next group (a few years
> ago) all said they expired after one year in the fine ptint. But I
> found one card that did not. However, they (AT&T) charged 5X the
> normal minutely rate for intrastate calls. I didn't notice that
> gotcha until after I had bought them and made a call. Now I use an
> online long distance "calling card" company. Theirs expire if you
> go for more than a year without making a call, but every time you
> use your account, the clock is reset to one year.
The Sprint card I use claims to never expire. The only fine print is
that there's a surcharge for international calls and for calls made
from a payphone.
Keith F. Lynch
> Well, I don't _need_ much else. It gets me dial tone, touch-tone,
> "charge for not having any long-distance service each month", and
> the various things they charge everyone for because the Federal
> Gummint says they have to supply said services to EVERYONE and heck
> if they're gonna pay for even one penny of it out of endowments or
> investment or income from other services or whatever.
> No 3-way calling, no call waiting, no cell phone connected to the
> line, no answering service, no voicemail, etc. Just plain phone.
Same here, except there's no charge for not having any long-distance
service. Unless it's disguised as something else.
In my experience, all long distance services charge plenty each
month even if I never make any long distance calls. So I prefer to
do without, and use a card instead when I do need to make a long
distance call.
Keith F. Lynch
> A particular Li-Ion one in a Siemens ME45 left for something like
> 8 months in a drawer kept enough for at least 24 h of standby and
> some 10 minutes worth of calls. _But_ the drawer is dry and fairly
> constant temperature.
Why mention that the drawer was dry? Does anyone keep batteries
somewhere wet? I assume the phone itself is waterproof.
danny burstein
>danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>>> That's why mercury-containing fluorescent lights will soon be
>>> mandatory in the US.
>> ummm, no.
>Well, okay, it's incandescents that will be banned.
Actualy not. the law mandates lumen efficiency/watt,
which are not reached by current incandescent.
However, there are a bunch of alternatives that do
meet those efficiency standards. CFLs, of course,
but also HID and LEDs.
And also... there are "modern", for want of a
better term, incadescents which come pretty close
to meeting the new efficiency specs. Philips has
their "Halogena" brand where, for example a 70
watt lamp gives as much light as a tradtional
100 watt unit. A couple of percentage point improvements
and they'll be ok.
And GE says:
"The target for these bulbs at initial production is to be
nearly twice as efficient, at 30 lumens-per-Watt, as
current incandescent bulbs. Ultimately the high
efficiency lamp (HEI) technology is expected
to be about four times as efficient as
current incandescent bulbs and
comparable to CFL bulbs." [a]
[a] http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/ge/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070223005120
>Mercury-containing
>fluorescents are merely being heavily pushed as a replacement, not
>mandated. You're free to use some third alternative, such as candles
>or arc lights. Or to remain in the dark whenever the sun is down.
Oh, and btw, the traditional "mercury vapor" lamps
that are pretty standard for industrial and/or
outdoor area lighting are also on the phase out
mandate. No new ballasts anymore, and in a few
years no new lamps, either.
We just replaced two of our 175 watt (a pretty
common size) lamps with 64 watt flourescent
bulbs that, contrary to my electrical knowledge
background, somehow matches up to the ballast.
Light output is roughly 3/4 of the mercury ones
(which kind of makes sense given their age...
most lamps lose some of their light outut
as they get older).
Wayne Throop
: That's why mercury-containing fluorescent lights will soon be
: mandatory in the US.
That turns out not to be the case.
As I believe was pointed out to you before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence_and_Security_Act_of_2007
Doubtless you will skip down to where it says "effectively make compact fluorescent light bulbs the new standard", and ignore the fact that what's
mandated is lumens-per-watt, phased in from 2012 to 2020. Which does not,
in fact, make fluorescent lights mandatory. Indeed, the 2014 restrictions
can be met by halogens currently.
There are a couple of non-mercury light sources that can meet 2020
standards. I would expect more as time goes on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
Plus, of course, several kinds of lighting are exempted from the regulations,
especially low power applications.
And finally, somebody has pointed out that even if all the mercury in
CFs is released into the env ironment, that's less total mercury
release, since coal-powered plants release more mercury for the extra
energy compared to incandescents thant he incandescents save.
Not that any of this means I think the new regulations are a good idea.
I don't. They're misguided at best imo. But "mercury containing
fluorescent lights will soon be mandatory" is at best
an inflamatory exageration.
Keith F. Lynch
> And finally, somebody has pointed out that even if all the mercury
> in CFs is released into the env ironment, that's less total mercury
> release, since coal-powered plants release more mercury for the
> extra energy compared to incandescents thant he incandescents save.
It's not the mercury in "the env ironment," it's the mercury in one's
home if a fluorescent bulb breaks. It's not a fair comparison unless
the coal-fired power plant's smokestack is routed through your
dining room.
Wayne Throop
: It's not the mercury in "the env ironment," it's the mercury in one's
: home if a fluorescent bulb breaks. It's not a fair comparison unless
: the coal-fired power plant's smokestack is routed through your
: dining room.
The mercury from a coal-fired plant ends up in the air you breathe.
The mercury from an improperly discarded bulb ends up in a dump somewhere.
So unless you deliberately break your bulbs and sniff the contents,
you're quite likely better off spending less power.
R H Draney
>
>In my experience, all long distance services charge plenty each
>month even if I never make any long distance calls. So I prefer to
>do without, and use a card instead when I do need to make a long
>distance call.
That's me, except that I have a cellphone (originally obtained for emergencies)
for long-distance....
I used to get several calls a week inviting me to change my home's long-distance
service to some other carrier...if the spiel started with "we can save you fifty
dollars a month on long distance", I'd ask how that was possible seeing as how
it had been over three years since I'd last made a long-distance call from that
number....
R H "they haven't been calling as often lately" Draney
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Joy Beeson
> >So do I, but I'd buy a cell phone if I could find one that I could
> >chuck into my emergency kit and forget about for ten years, like my
> >spare tube and tire irons.
>
> In the USA it is required thatn any cell phone, even one not
> subscribed to a service, be able to call 911.
But the first person to see me lying in the ditch would dial 911.
I need a cell phone for calling a taxi.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Default User
> Default User wrote:
> > Ok, let's substitute a non-functioning car in a non-dangerous area.
> >
> You lock the doors and walk to someplace that has a phone you can use.
Well, yes, that's possible. That doesn't make it safe or convenient. It
would sure be nice to have a phone for emergency purposes.
Dimensional Traveler
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> Default User wrote:
>
>>> Ok, let's substitute a non-functioning car in a non-dangerous area.
>>>
>> You lock the doors and walk to someplace that has a phone you can use.
>
> Well, yes, that's possible. That doesn't make it safe or convenient. It
> would sure be nice to have a phone for emergency purposes.
>
calling 911. The criteria was "in a non-dangerous area".
Szymon Sokół
> I used to get several calls a week inviting me to change my home's long-distance
> service to some other carrier...if the spiel started with "we can save you fifty
> dollars a month on long distance", I'd ask how that was possible seeing as how
> it had been over three years since I'd last made a long-distance call from that
> number....
Well, isn't it obvious? They are going to pay *you* $50/month! I would
accept it :->
--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
Default User
> Default User wrote:
> > Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> >
> > > Default User wrote:
> >
> > > > Ok, let's substitute a non-functioning car in a non-dangerous
> > > > area.
> > > >
> > > You lock the doors and walk to someplace that has a phone you can
> > > use.
> >
> > Well, yes, that's possible. That doesn't make it safe or
> > convenient. It would sure be nice to have a phone for emergency
> > purposes.
> >
> If its not safe to do that, then you have legitimate reason to be
> calling 911. The criteria was "in a non-dangerous area".
As I said, "or convenient". That includes like the nearest phone being
a fair distance away or the weather being poor.
I don't personally have a cell phone. I do recognize that there could
be a use case for an "inconvenience" phone that could be put in the
glove compartment. 911 is not that.
Brian
--
Day 320 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project