KKK owns part of Kentucky Fried Chicken?
richard samuel mcconachy
Can anybody actually offer any substantial evidence for the sometimes
quoted claims that (a) Col. Sanders was a KKK member, or (b) the KKK
own an appreciable (15-20% seems to be a common figure) chunk of the
Kentucky Fried Chicken company through their various groups? Thanks
in advance,
ricky (ri...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au)
Phil Gustafson
>
>Can anybody actually offer any substantial evidence for the sometimes
>quoted claims that (a) Col. Sanders was a KKK member, or (b) the KKK
>own an appreciable (15-20% seems to be a common figure) chunk of the
>Kentucky Fried Chicken company through their various groups? Thanks
>in advance,
>
conglomerate (Heublein?) many years ago. The Colonel himself was dressed
up in a white suit and sent from stand to stand as a PR man. He had very
unfriendly things to say about both his new management and KFC's "Extra
Crispy" variant chicken.
Anyhow, I have no reason to believe that the KFC parent company is any
more or less offensive than any other megaboss food conglomerate.
It sure is convenient for me that so many allegedly un-PC food providers --
Coors, Domino's, Carl's Jr., KFC -- sell swill that I avoid with relish.
But if the rumor about Ben and Jerry using gerbils to boost milk production
is true, I might have to switch ice creams.
Phil "Why _do_ they look so contented?" Gustafson
--
| ph...@rahul.net Phil Gustafson 408-286-1749 |
| Only people who die very young learn all they really need to know |
| in kindergarten. (W. Kaminer) |
David W Hatunen
* * *
>KFC (they use the initials these days) was bought out by a megaboss food
>conglomerate (Heublein?) many years ago. The Colonel himself was dressed
>up in a white suit and sent from stand to stand as a PR man. He had very
>unfriendly things to say about both his new management and KFC's "Extra
>Crispy" variant chicken.
Back in the days when I lived in Louisville and could still sometimes see
the big bus with the huge cut-out of a boxer on it proclaiming "Casius
Clay - The World's Greates Boxer" and Col Sanders still actually owned the
chicken joints I had the good and very brief fortune to meet the Colonel.
I assure you he invented the white suit, string tie, and personbal
appearances all by himself. That's how he created a chain big enough to be
bought out. But wasn't the first buyout by the Brown guy who later became
governor of Kentucky and married some well-known woman (Phyllis George?).
Quite a guy, Col Sanders. Played a mean banjo.
-------------------------------------------
Col Dave Hatunen
(yeah, realio trulio the same kind of colonel as the chicken man)
--
--------- DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) ----------
----- Daly City California: almost San Francisco -----
William VanHorne
>Back in the days when I lived in Louisville and could still sometimes see
>the big bus with the huge cut-out of a boxer on it proclaiming "Casius
>Clay - The World's Greates Boxer" and Col Sanders still actually owned the
>chicken joints I had the good and very brief fortune to meet the Colonel.
>I assure you he invented the white suit, string tie, and personbal
>appearances all by himself. That's how he created a chain big enough to be
>bought out. But wasn't the first buyout by the Brown guy who later became
>governor of Kentucky and married some well-known woman (Phyllis George?).
Actually, the brains behind the franchising of KFC, which transformed
the Colonel's restaurant chain into a national fast-food powerhouse, was
Dave Thomas. No, not *that* Dave Thomas, the Dave Thomas who later
ran Arthur Treacher's Fish And Chips and who after that started his own
fast-food empire called Wendy's.
Wasn't Wendy's the first national fast-food chain with drive-up windows?
---Bill "it's important to know these things" VanHorne
Daniel B Case
This, as I noted before, is usually applied to the rival Church's Fried Chicken
chain, with the added canard that the chicken contains a secret ingredient which
makes black men impotent.
"There's no BODY-CHECKING in golf!!!"-Charlie Brown, to Lucy.
V140...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Daniel Case Prodigy: WDNS15D
State University of New York at Buffalo GEnie:DCASE.10
Tom Wood
in the little tubs of mashed potatoes?
tw
ssu
spfld il usa
wo...@eagle.sangamon.edu
lrud...@vax.clarku.edu
>This, as I noted before, is usually applied to the rival Church's Fried Chicken
>chain, with the added canard that the chicken contains a secret ingredient
>which makes black men impotent.
Adding a duck in chains? Did you read this in the French press, or what?
Or is it just another obscure allusion to the French for "fade to black"?
Lee "I was lost until I fondue" Rudolph
Dan Hartung
>G'day People,
>
>Can anybody actually offer any substantial evidence for the sometimes
>quoted claims that (a) Col. Sanders was a KKK member, or (b) the KKK
>own an appreciable (15-20% seems to be a common figure) chunk of the
>Kentucky Fried Chicken company through their various groups? Thanks
>in advance,
The KKK owns only the legs and the preprocessed chicken chunks.
The rest is owned by individual investors and Pepsi Cola.
--
| "Let me blow that up for you again." |
| -- Gen. Colin Powell, referring to a photo of the Iraqi Intelligence |
| Service headquarters, previously hit during the Gulf War |
Daniel A. Hartung -- dhar...@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract
Mark Towfiq
>>>>> (William VanHorne) said:
wv> Actually, the brains behind the franchising of KFC, which
wv> transformed the Colonel's restaurant chain into a national
wv> fast-food powerhouse, was Dave Thomas. No, not *that* Dave
wv> Thomas, the Dave Thomas who later ran Arthur Treacher's Fish And
wv> Chips and who after that started his own fast-food empire called
wv> Wendy's.
Are there any more Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips places left? I
found one in Connecticut a few years ago, but I can't find the exit
anymore! I would love something approximating real English Fish and
Chips.
Mark "will eat fish and chips for food" Towfiq
--
Mark TOWFIQ | Business/Urgent: tow...@Microdyne.COM +1 508 392 9953 (fax 9962)
| Other: tow...@Justice.Medford.MA.US +1 617 488 2818
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." -- Baha'u'llah
mel...@firnvx.firn.edu
> This, as I noted before, is usually applied to the rival Church's Fried Chicken
> chain, with the added canard that the chicken contains a secret ingredient which
> makes black men impotent.
>
be patronized because they were owned by the NAACP. Really. I wonder when
they sold the chain to the KKK.
Mike "please don't tell me anything about Popeye's" Melcher
mel...@firnvx.firn.edu
Daniel B Case
>>>>>> On 1 Jul 1993 11:58:40 GMT, wvh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>>>>>> (William VanHorne) said:
>
>wv> Actually, the brains behind the franchising of KFC, which
>wv> transformed the Colonel's restaurant chain into a national
>wv> fast-food powerhouse, was Dave Thomas. No, not *that* Dave
>wv> Thomas, the Dave Thomas who later ran Arthur Treacher's Fish And
>wv> Chips and who after that started his own fast-food empire called
>wv> Wendy's.
>
> Are there any more Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips places left? I
>found one in Connecticut a few years ago, but I can't find the exit
>anymore! I would love something approximating real English Fish and
>Chips.
Mmm...I think there's one north of Princeton, NJ, on Route 206, and maybe
another one just outside of Flemington. I'm not sure about that one, though.
DGGA...@miamiu.bitnet
part of his fortune as a KFC franchiser in the 1960s. Whether or not,as
another poster said, he was involved with Arthur Treacher's, I'm not sure, but
its certainly possible, since AT's was based in Columbus. There was, a few
years ago at least, an ATs still left on King Avenue (or was it Fifth?) in
Columbus, relatively near Ohio State and very near Battelle for you academic
types. Whether its still there, I dunno. My father, who at the time was a young
and struggling stockbroker (today, he is an advanced middle aged struggling
stockbroker) tells the story that in the early sixties he walked into DT's
first KFC in Cols on a "cold call" and tried to get Dave to invest with him.
Dave listened for a while, then punched open his cash register, and said that
at that moment his biggest financial goal was to get enough cash together to be
able to make change.
Fast-food historians will be interested in knowing that it is generally thought
in Ohio that DT "borrowed" a lot of the ideas for Wendy's--square burgers, the
larger fries, the Frosty (tm) dairy desert--from a place in beautiful downtown
Findlay, Ohio, called Wilson's (right next to the big Elk's Hall, across the
street from the Marathon Oil world headquarters, except Marathon is now owned
by Mobil or somebody), and ObUL alert, that ole Pop Wilson refused Dave and
others' efforts to buy himÙ…his concept out and that is why Dave went ahead and
appropriated what he did. I do know that Wilson's no longer calls its Frosties
by that name anymore, so I presume there was some legal difficulty with Wendy's
over trademarks, etc.
Drew Lawson
wvh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William VanHorne) writes:
>Wasn't Wendy's the first national fast-food chain with drive-up windows?
It's not ubiquitous, but does Jack In The Box qualify as national?
They had drive thru's years before I even heard of Wendy's.
Drew "Would you like Jack Sauce on that?" Lawson
--
+--------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| Drew Lawson | I had to sell my internal organs |
| law...@acuson.com | Just to pay the rent. |
| | -- Weird Al (When I was Your Age) |
Jim Kasprzak
|> Are there any more Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips places left? I
|> found one in Connecticut a few years ago, but I can't find the exit
|> anymore!
confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
for this but no one can remember just what it was.
There is (or was in the 80's) an Arthur Treacher's in Manchester, CT,
near the infamous intersection of Broad and Center Streets where you can
watch the Domino's Pizza delivery cars play dodge 'em through the six-way
interchange on a Saturday night. (Once two Domino's drivers collided with
each other there, but that's another story.)
Jim "will not drive in Connecticut for food" Kasprzak
------------------------------------------------------------------
__ Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
___/ | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| "Chicken Little tells you that the sky is falling, and
\_| even if it was, would you still come crawling back again..."
==== e-mail: kas...@rpi.edu or kasp...@mts.rpi.edu
Bruce Tindall
> (Once two Domino's drivers collided with
>each other there, but that's another story.)
century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
Law than a UL.
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Ad absurdum per aspera
(Bruce Tindall) writes...
>ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
>century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
>were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
>each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
>Law than a UL.
State of Ohio circa 1903, if a "Murphy's Law" poster that my wife
got at a computer trade show is to be believed. I think it's the
one with the subtitle, "Murphy was an optimist," and a picture of
a horseless carriage sunk up to the axles in a formidable mudhole.
Joe "Against the odds, it wasn't a California driver" Chew
Brian Leibowitz
>confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
>being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
>knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
>for this but no one can remember just what it was.
Half of 84 used to be I-86. One of them was supposed to continue north towrds
Springfield, MA, but was never completed. The result was a road that changed
interstate numbers in the middle for no apparent reason. When the extension
of the road to Springfield was officially cancelled, the whole road was
declared to be I-84. The exit numbering then had to be redone.
(my sister used to live near exit 99 which became something else.)
> There is (or was in the 80's) an Arthur Treacher's in Manchester, CT,
>near the infamous intersection of Broad and Center Streets where you can
>watch the Domino's Pizza delivery cars play dodge 'em through the six-way
>interchange on a Saturday night. (Once two Domino's drivers collided with
>each other there, but that's another story.)
>
While waiting for a friend's case to be called in small claims court, I
got to watch a suit between Avis and Hertz. Employees from each were
transfering rental cars between locations at the airport and collided.
Both companies are self insured, so they were going after real money and
not just whose insurance will cover it. i felt sorry for the minimum wage
employees who were forced to go to court over the accident (and probably
were not being paid for their time.) I got to see the accident described
with drawings with circles and arrows (no airial photography of the scene.)
Brian "A tie in a race through an intersection has two losers." Leibowitz
C.K. Black
( Bruce....@launchpad.unc.edu ) writes......
>ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
>century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
>were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
>each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
>Law than a UL.
Oh Boy! Way to go Bruce, some UL fodder to work on! The foggy brain cells
have heard of this one and it might be a UL. In my version, you got the
'sparsely populated country' but it was somewhere like Kansas, circa 1910.
Anybody else got more info? Cheers......
Conrad 'honest, wasn't me, didn't even have a licence back then' Black
--
Conrad Black
Email... C.K....@massey.ac.nz
Snail... Massey U., Plant Sc. Dept., Palmerston North, New Zealand
Jonathan Papai
>ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
>century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
>were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
>each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
>Law than a UL.
Actually, it wasn't all that sparsely populated.
It was Cleveland. The only two _licensed_ cars in the city.
An important distinction back then.
Jon "Go Tribe" Papai
Jonathan Papai
Fast food historians will wish to know that Ohio
Governor Rhodes (of _Four dead in Ohio_ fame) made his
fortune by investing in Wendy's early on on Dave Thomas' suggestion
Jon "Is there a Wendy's at Kent State?" Papai
Jonathan Papai
>its certainly possible, since AT's was based in Columbus. There was, a few
>years ago at least, an ATs still left on King Avenue (or was it Fifth?) in
>Columbus, relatively near Ohio State and very near Battelle for you academic
>types. Whether its still there, I dunno. My father, who at the time was a young
Wow! Rarely does one see academic, Ohio State and Battelle in the
same sentence.
That would be 1216 W. fifth Ave., Columbus, (614) 481-8428. Three
other locations in cowtown also.
There's a tattoo shop not far from Amy's Pizza here, but I don't
know if they do nipple piercing.
Jon "have yellow pages, will travel" Papai
Robert Pohl
> ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
> century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
> were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
> each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
> Law than a UL.
I read (Probably in a Ripley's believe it or not) that there was one tree
somewhere in a desert in Africa and one day somebody managed to crash into
it. Variationj on a theme...
Robert "Probably hadn't slept in days and thought the tree was a
hallucination" Pohl
Global Village Idiot
Ian Lee Tregillis [Astro]
>ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
>century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
>were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
>each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
>Law than a UL.
I remember reading a very similar story in- yes, you guessed it-
_Reader's Digest_, at least seven years ago, I think. As I recall,
their version took place around the turn of the century in Ohio.
Speaking of the great UL-spreader, my mom insists that RD is part
of some vast pinko-communist conspiracy. Anybody else hear this?
(Sorry if it's in the FAQ.)
Ian "I hear Lenin was driving one of the cars" Tregillis
University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
treg...@student.tc.umn.edu
treg...@s1.msi.umn.edu
Cynthia Kandolf
lately...?), writes:
>|> Are there any more Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips places left?
I
>|> found one in Connecticut a few years ago, but I can't find the exit
>|> anymore!
<explanation of renumbered exits deleted>
> There is (or was in the 80's) an Arthur Treacher's in Manchester, CT,
>near the infamous intersection of Broad and Center Streets where you
>can watch the Domino's Pizza delivery cars play dodge 'em through the
>six-way interchange on a Saturday night. (Once two Domino's drivers
>collided with each other there, but that's another story.)
Sometime in the time period 1987-1990 (nice and definite, i know), my
parents and i stopped at an Arthur Treacher's in Breezewood,
Pennsylvania. That's the last time i ever saw one. Breezewood, as
frequent travelers of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (gawd help us all)
know, is a small town that happens to be at the intersection of the
Turnpike and a major Interstate - going to Washington, DC, and points
south, if memory serves. As a result it has an inordinate number of
fast food and family and truck-stop type restaurants. Back in the
days when every rest area on the Turnpike had a HoJo's (yes, i _am_
old enough to remember that!), it was a godsend. Now that they've
gotten a bit more variety, it simply is the reason for some of the
gaudiest billboards known to man, including one with the word
"BREEZEWOOD" in neon, announcing it as the "Town of Motels".
No one has yet mentioned the best part about Arthur Treacher's, so i
will: the fat, ridged french fries that allowed you to scoop up a big
wad of your favorite condiment.
-Cindy "and then there's the billboard for Christmas World in
Michigan" Kandolf
ci...@solan.unit.no
Trondheim, Norway
Jason R. Heimbaugh
> ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
> century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
> were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
> each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
> Law than a UL.
It was in the country Ohio. I read it in a Games magazine book, so I know
it's true. Next time I go to my parent's house I'll get a copy of the whole
thing.
--
Jason R. Heimbaugh
j...@uiuc.edu
Mike Huber
: Bruce....@launchpad.unc.edu (Bruce Tindall) writes:
:
[all conecction to the title of the thread deleted]
:
: Speaking of the great UL-spreader, my mom insists that RD is part
: of some vast pinko-communist conspiracy. Anybody else hear this?
: (Sorry if it's in the FAQ.)
ObConspiracy: Rush is actualy a flaming liberal out to make
conservatives look like ignorant bigots.
Mike "And the Discordians are NOT, repeat NOT Illuminati in disguise"
Huber
Barry Shein
This kind of thing happens every day here in Boston.
I'll be driving home at some ungodly hour like 4AM and the only other
driver on the road will suddenly pull some bizarre move to get ahead
of me (like run around me on the right when a light changes), or cut
me off to make a left in front of me from the other direction, like
lord knows if he waited for one car his life would just be ruined.
But then again, this is Boston, where no one drives to get anywhere,
they only drive to annoy everyone else on the road or work out their
own deep-seated sociopathies.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | b...@world.std.com | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Barry Shein
From: treg...@s20.msi.umn.edu (Ian Lee Tregillis [Astro])
>Speaking of the great UL-spreader, my mom insists that RD is part
>of some vast pinko-communist conspiracy. Anybody else hear this?
Does it bother her that Richard Nixon was their editor for several
years in the 60's? Or has Reader's Digest been taken over by the con
since then? Or is RMN part of the con? Which pinko-communist
conspiracy is this anyhow, there are so many it's hard to keep track.
Ryan Bayne
(Daniel B Case) wrote...
DB´In article <ricky.7...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au>, ri...@cs.monash.edu.au
DB´(richard samuel mcconachy) writes...
DB´>Can anybody actually offer any substantial evidence for the sometimes
DB´>quoted claims that (a) Col. Sanders was a KKK member, or (b) the KKK
DB´>own an appreciable (15-20% seems to be a common figure) chunk of the
DB´>Kentucky Fried Chicken company through their various groups? Thanks
DB´This, as I noted before, is usually applied to the rival Church's Fried Chic
DB´chain, with the added canard that the chicken contains a secret ingredient
DB´which
DB´makes black men impotent.
This seems like a common UL. In the book For God, Country, and
Coca-Cola, by Mark Pendergrast I believe, talks about this same UL being
applied to Coca-Cola and a drink called Tropical Fantasy, which I have
no idea about because I am just a Canadian who goes around killing
people with crossbows. It also covered Bite the Wax Tadpole briefly and
seemed like an adequate source of food UL's as well as interesting
reading.
Ryan "I didn't know it tasted so bad" Bayne
_______________________________________________________________________
|Ryan Bayne VE3KOW Packet:VE3...@VE3OY.ON.CAN I cuss, you cuss,|
|UUCP:canrem!ryan.bayne,Ryan....@canrem.uucp we all cuss for |
|Internet:Ryan....@canrem.com Asparagus |
|Fidonet:(1:229/15) "Thank you just so darn much" -Failed Marketing|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* 1st 1.11 #173 * Press any key... NO!... except that one.
Wayne W. McDougall
Hmmm, this also happened in New Zealand. (Possibly there were three cars in
Strike a key when ready . . .
the country, but definitely only two on the same island). I have a photo to
prove it.
- --
sys...@codewks.nacjack.gen.nz (Wayne W. McDougall)
The BBS Works -- +64 9 630 7739 NZL New Zealand's Oldest BBS
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but...@waikato.ac.nz
>
> From: treg...@s20.msi.umn.edu (Ian Lee Tregillis [Astro])
>>Speaking of the great UL-spreader, my mom insists that RD is part
>>of some vast pinko-communist conspiracy. Anybody else hear this?
>
> Does it bother her that Richard Nixon was their editor for several
> years in the 60's? Or has Reader's Digest been taken over by the con
> since then? Or is RMN part of the con? Which pinko-communist
> conspiracy is this anyhow, there are so many it's hard to keep track.
Quoting my own inexhaustible authoritative memory: Reader's Digest is printed
by the CIA. So there.
"And sugar rots your teeth and gives you brain damage, everyone knows that!"
Daniel B Case
> That's probably because they re-numbered all the exits on I-84, just to
>confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
>being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
>knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
>for this but no one can remember just what it was.
They probably went from sequential numbers to milepost numbers, or the other
way around. Virginia did something like this recently, causing a lot of chaos.
Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
number exits by milepost? It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km). Also, in
densely populated areas you can sometimes have two exits within less than a mile
of each other, resulting in a misleading exit number, or clumsy additions of
letters to make it "Exit 44A" or whatever.
And why does California solve the problem by not numbering exits at all? Did
CDOT have some good reason? That can be confusing too.
Daniel B Case
>In article <216ce6$9...@usenet.rpi.edu> kas...@rpi.edu writes:
>>
>> That's probably because they re-numbered all the exits on I-84, just to
>>confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
>>being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
>>knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
>>for this but no one can remember just what it was.
>
>Half of 84 used to be I-86. One of them was supposed to continue north towrds
>Springfield, MA, but was never completed. The result was a road that changed
>interstate numbers in the middle for no apparent reason. When the extension
>of the road to Springfield was officially cancelled, the whole road was
>declared to be I-84. The exit numbering then had to be redone.
You think that's bad? Take a look at what that did to New Jersey:
*The road that loops around Trenton (variously I-95, I-195, or I-295) changes
exit numbers (when it has them) two or three times. Reason: First, to the south
of Trenton, a T-shaped section of 195 and 295 has been chronically stalled
because to complete them would require destroying a section of wetland that is
federally protected. The result is a long curve during which signs inform you
that you are now on I-295, which begins down at the Delaware Memorial Bridge
a long way to the south, and thus the mileposts suddenly go from near zero to
the upper sixties. Second, you follow 295 northwards around Trenton. All well
and good. But somewhere in Ewing township, between exits, you are suddenly on
I-95 and the exits drop to the low numbers, which carry you to the Delaware
River and the PA state line, where you remain on 95 to Miami.
*Similarly, the southern portion of the NYC belt highway, nominally I-287,
goes through changes for no easily apparent reason. For starters, it's not even
287 when it comes across from Staten Island-it's NJ 440. It stays that way until
somewhere between US 1 and the NJ Turnpike, where it supposedly becomes 287. But
strangely, there are no exit numbers until you get past US 22 near Somerville,
when they just pick up as though nothing was wrong, and remain that way till the
road ends (currently) in Montville.
Why? This is all because of the cancellation (for now) of the I-95 project. I-95
theoretically runs all the way from Miami to the Canadian border at Houlton,
ME, but it disappears between Ewing and Edison, NJ. The road was supposed to
split into 95 and 295 in Ewing, and run north to South Plainfield where it would
take over from 287, but local opposition in Montgomery and Hillsborough
townships (not coincidentally in the second wealthiest county in the country)
effectively killed it. The proposed route is still on maps, but it's unclear
whether it will ever be built now, especially as it might take traffic away from
the Turnpike (I doubt it would-anyone who has driven both I-95 through Philly
and the Turnpike through South Jersey would easily choose the latter if they
were traveling through that area).
Yenwen Wang
stalled cars, etc. in a more accurate manner. Police can calculate the
distance and time to get to the spot.
Yenwen Wang
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yenwen Wang wa...@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
The Ohio State University yew...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Michael T Pins
>In article <216ce6$9...@usenet.rpi.edu>, kas...@rpi.edu writes...
>> That's probably because they re-numbered all the exits on I-84, just to
>>confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
>>being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
>>knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
>>for this but no one can remember just what it was.
>They probably went from sequential numbers to milepost numbers, or the other
>way around. Virginia did something like this recently, causing a lot of chaos.
>Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
>number exits by milepost? It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
>when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
>NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km). Also, in
>densely populated areas you can sometimes have two exits within less than a mile
>of each other, resulting in a misleading exit number, or clumsy additions of
>letters to make it "Exit 44A" or whatever.
As opposed to what happens when they decide they need another exit between
#117 and #118???
I've never understood why you would ever number an exit using anything *other*
than it's milepost number.
Not only does it make adding new exits simple, it also makes it easy to know
how far away your exit is.
--
*****************************************************************************
* Michael Pins | Internet: ami...@isca.uiowa.edu *
* ISCA's Amiga & Unix Librarian | #include <std.disclaimer> *
*****************************************************************************
Russ Kepler
>Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
>number exits by milepost? It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
>when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
>NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km). Also, in
>densely populated areas you can sometimes have two exits within less than a mile
>of each other, resulting in a misleading exit number, or clumsy additions of
>letters to make it "Exit 44A" or whatever.
Numbering by milepost allows the addition of exits without having to
renumber the remainder or to kludge up the additional exit sign.
>And why does California solve the problem by not numbering exits at all? Did
>CDOT have some good reason? That can be confusing too.
Good questions.
ObUL: alt.urban.folklore used to require urban folklore in each post.
--
Russ Kepler, posting from home ru...@bbxrbk.basis.com,bbxrbk!ru...@bbx.basis.com
"Sale of this posting without attached front cover may be unauthorized"
Peter Alan Dutton
>> That's probably because they re-numbered all the exits on I-84, just to
>>confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
>>being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
>>knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
>>for this but no one can remember just what it was.
>
>They probably went from sequential numbers to milepost numbers, or the other
>way around. Virginia did something like this recently, causing a lot of chaos.
Nope, Connecticut didn't do this. The person who posted about I-86
becoming I-84 was correct. I don't know about the road to Springfield,
though.
>Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
>number exits by milepost?
In case new exits turn up in the middle of sparsely populated areas. And it
makes it really easy to figure out how far you are until the next exit. I
prefer milepost exits for this reason.
>It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
>when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
>NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km).
New Jersey goes by milepost only on the Garden State Parkway, not on the
NJ Turnpike. Since the NJ Turnpike doesn't have a milepost system, new
exits (such as I-195) have had to be numbered "7A" and such.
You can't win either way...
Peter "So are they postes-kilometrique in Quebec?" D!
Peter Alan Dutton
>of Trenton, a T-shaped section of 195 and 295 has been chronically stalled
>because to complete them would require destroying a section of wetland that is
>federally protected.
I think this project is now on the road to being completed. Finally.
>The proposed route [for I-95] is still on maps, but it's unclear
>whether it will ever be built now, especially as it might take traffic away from
>the Turnpike (I doubt it would-anyone who has driven both I-95 through Philly
>and the Turnpike through South Jersey would easily choose the latter if they
>were traveling through that area).
Well, anything to save about $4 in tolls, I guess...
It would be nice if I-95 were completed. It would take a LOT of strain off
off Route 1, which is the only major route between New Brunswick and Princeton
and Trenton, and is probably the most traffic-congested road outside a
major city in the US. Especially at rush hour.
Peter "Will drive to Princeton for Reunions" D!
Paul Tomblin
>Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
>number exits by milepost? It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
Because it makes a lot of sense? Because you can tell how far it is to your
exit by doing a simple subtraction of the current exit and your destination
exit number? Because when they add a new exit you don't have to renumber the
whole damn system?
Before Ontario switched to km exit numbers, there were a _lot_ of "A" and "B"
exits at places that had exits added after the original building of the
highway. It makes a lot of sense to not have more that one exit in 1km (we
use collector/distribution lanes in that case). I don't know about 1mile -
that might work without the two interferring too much.
Note: I was a highway designer for the Ontario Ministry of Transportation and
Communications many years ago. (Well - I wrote the programs that the real
designers used, in FORTRAN-G and PLI)
Paul "But I'm _much_ better now" Tomblin
--
"Personally, my favorite sequence was the one about the crabs fighting each
other for territory in the pool of liquefied bat guano where they spend their
entire lives. In addition to being amusing, it was a wonderful metaphor for
some aspects of my previous career in the computer industry." - Joe Chew
Mark Brader
> > century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
> > were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
> > each other.
I think this is a confusion of two real accidents. The one in the
sparsely populated country actually happened in February 1960 in Niger,
where a truck driven by a French driver backed into a tree. The reason
this was interesting is that it happened at an oasis in the Tenere Desert,
and there was only one tree there, and not another one for 30 miles or so
in any direction. The accident and the tree used to be mentioned in the
Guinness Book of World Records for this reason. The tree survived and
was later transplanted to the Museum of Miamey, Niger. The Guinness
people later learned of a new "remotest" tree, located on Campbell
Island, Antarctica, with no other tree for 120 miles in any direction,
so more recent editions mention only this one.
> State of Ohio circa 1903, if a "Murphy's Law" poster that my wife
> got at a computer trade show is to be believed.
And this is this other accident -- there were only two automobiles in
the state, not the country. I've been trying to find where I read
about this -- I'm sure it was a book rather than a poster -- but I
can't find the source. The details I remember agree with the poster
cited, though.
--
Mark Brader | "...not one accident in a hundred deserves the name.
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto | [This occurrence] was simply the legitimate result
utzoo!sq!msb, m...@sq.com | of carelessness." -- Washington Roebling
This article is in the public domain.
Patrick L Humphrey
>In article <216ce6$9...@usenet.rpi.edu>, kas...@rpi.edu writes...
>> That's probably because they re-numbered all the exits on I-84, just to
>>confuse people. For years and years I remember my home town's exit as
>>being number 98, and then just around the time that I got my license, they
>>knocked all the exit numbers down by about forty. There was a good reason
>>for this but no one can remember just what it was.
>They probably went from sequential numbers to milepost numbers, or the other
>way around. Virginia did something like this recently, causing a lot of chaos.
Virginia went from sequential numbering to milepost numbering -- which is what
most states are using now, with a few exceptions. (The New England states,
New York, New Jersey (except on the toll roads, which are marked by milepost
numbers), Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Florida are the only ones still numbering
exits sequentially -- and Florida in the last two years has renumbered the
Florida Turnpike by mileposts, so a conversion may be upcoming there.)
>Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
>number exits by milepost? It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
>when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
>NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km). Also, in
>densely populated areas you can sometimes have two exits within less than a mile
>of each other, resulting in a misleading exit number, or clumsy additions of
>letters to make it "Exit 44A" or whatever.
One good reason to number by the posts is that it makes it a *lot* easier to
tell how far apart two exits are on the same highway. (The northern end of
I-45 in Dallas is Exit 288, the main downtown exit on I-45 in Houston is 46 --
presto! It's just about 242 miles between the two downtowns. Try figuring
*that* from sequentially numbered exits.) As far as appending letters when
more than one exit exists within the same mile, what's the difference between
that and having to add a letter when a new exit is built on a
sequentially-numbered road? (There are only two places I can think of offhand
where a letter greater than D has to be used -- the stretch of I-110 through
downtown Baton Rouge which has an exit numbered 3H, and the I-470 connector on
the south side of downtown Kansas City which has an Exit 2U, I kid you not.)
>And why does California solve the problem by not numbering exits at all? Did
>CDOT have some good reason? That can be confusing too.
That's a good question -- probably it's because they have enough mileage as to
not really feel like putting up all those mileposts *and* exit signs...:-)
--PLH, a left at Exit 756 on I-10, then 5 exits down the Tollway
--
Jeff Sandler
>exits sequentially -- and Florida in the last two years has renumbered the
>Florida Turnpike by mileposts, so a conversion may be upcoming there.)
It was more than two years ago..
I'm going into my fourth year at Florida State..in Tallahassee..I drive between
Ft. Lauderdale and Tallahassee alot, and as long as I've been doing it, the
turn pike was numbered by mile markers..but I-75 and I-10 are sequential.
I tend to say it was 5-10 years ago. I've lived in S. Florida for
15 years, and I remember the Turn Pike being sequential when I was younger..
Related Topic: The turn pike is changing over (slowly) to a pay-as-you-go
system (a quarter here, fifty cents there..) instead of pay when you
get off. At least, thats what they say. On the southern 88 miles of it,
its certainly true. The last exit on the ticket going south is Lantana, at
mile 88..<Something like $12.50..I looked at an old ticket..about 10 years
old..when it was numbered sequential..and went further on the ticket..and it
cost $5.90. Ack!>
--
Jeff Sandler | Go Florida State Seminoles!
jsan...@encore.com | Go Marlins! Go Panthers!
Encore Computer Corp.; Plantation, FL | Go Dolphins! Go Heat!
Steven Thornton
: ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
: century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
: were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
: Law than a UL.
Wait! I heard this about Kansas, in the early 1900s. I've seen it in
print, and I always believed it. Is it going to turn out to be just
another one of those crummy ULs?
--
=============================================================================
Steve Thornton ste...@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington
Michael Moroney
>In article <C9rKy...@acsu.buffalo.edu> v140...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel B Case) writes:
>>They probably went from sequential numbers to milepost numbers, or the other
>>It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
>>when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
>>NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km).
>New Jersey goes by milepost only on the Garden State Parkway, not on the
>NJ Turnpike. Since the NJ Turnpike doesn't have a milepost system, new
>exits (such as I-195) have had to be numbered "7A" and such.
I believe I-80 in NJ is numbered by milepost.
One strange artifact of milepost numberings is a few Exit 0 s in some areas.
They renumbered Rte 128 (I-95, but you won't catch any locals calling it
that) here in Mass. not too long ago. I believe the reason was a Fed rule
interstates had to be numbered with lower numbers to the south on N-S
interstate highways, and 128 was numbered the wrong way.
-Mike
NCOU...@utcvm.utc.edu
odd-numbered and all east-west ones are even-numbered.
Neal Coulter
(NCOU...@UTCVM.UTC.EDU)
Daniel B Case
>>Which brings up an interesting question. What good reason is, or was, there to
>>number exits by milepost? It certainly tends to confuse travelers, especially
>>when adjacent states use different systems (NY and PA go sequentially, whereas
>>NJ goes by milepost, and (for that matter) Ontario numbers by km). Also, in
>>densely populated areas you can sometimes have two exits within less than a mile
>>of each other, resulting in a misleading exit number, or clumsy additions of
>>letters to make it "Exit 44A" or whatever.
>
>As opposed to what happens when they decide they need another exit between
>#117 and #118???
>I've never understood why you would ever number an exit using anything *other*
>than it's milepost number.
>Not only does it make adding new exits simple, it also makes it easy to know
>how far away your exit is.
True, I hadn't thought of it that way, but like I said, California gets along
fine without them.
And on some roads they're obviously not going to add new exits. But even then,
sequentially numbered exits can be added just as easily-the New York State
Thruway, judging by its exit numbers, has plenty that were added after the
road was built, and nobody minds.
Daniel B Case
>New Jersey goes by milepost only on the Garden State Parkway, not on the
>NJ Turnpike. Since the NJ Turnpike doesn't have a milepost system, new
>exits (such as I-195) have had to be numbered "7A" and such.
>
Not quite. I was referring to New Jersey's free interstates, which number by
mile (I-78, I-80).
And BTW, has anyone else ever noticed that the exit numbers on the GSP bear no
relation to sequence or mile?
Dan "Now that's confusing" Case
Daniel B Case
>>New Jersey goes by milepost only on the Garden State Parkway, not on the
>>NJ Turnpike. Since the NJ Turnpike doesn't have a milepost system, new
>>exits (such as I-195) have had to be numbered "7A" and such.
>
>I believe I-80 in NJ is numbered by milepost.
As are I-287 and I-78, although with exceptions in the former case, as I've
noted elsewhere.
>
>One strange artifact of milepost numberings is a few Exit 0 s in some areas.
That happens only when the exit is right on the state line, or effectively so.
Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atlas
is to be believed, is on I-80/90 at the Indiana/Illinois state line. Where's the
other one (and why, going back to the absurdities of milepost numbering, is the
exit on I-84 practically on the NY/CT state line "Exit 1" and not "Exit 0"?)
Daniel B Case
>>The proposed route [for I-95] is still on maps, but it's unclear
>>whether it will ever be built now, especially as it might take traffic away from
>>the Turnpike (I doubt it would-anyone who has driven both I-95 through Philly
>>and the Turnpike through South Jersey would easily choose the latter if they
>>were traveling through that area).
>
>Well, anything to save about $4 in tolls, I guess...
I'd pay $4 in tolls to avoid South Philadelphia, and indeed the whole PA stretch
of I-95 from the DE line to about Bristol. It's depressing.
>
>It would be nice if I-95 were completed. It would take a LOT of strain off
>off Route 1, which is the only major route between New Brunswick and Princeton
>and Trenton, and is probably the most traffic-congested road outside a
>major city in the US. Especially at rush hour.
Ain't it the truth. I drove it at rush hour far too many times last summer.
Dan "but not this one, thank God" Case
Peter Alan Dutton
>(and why, going back to the absurdities of milepost numbering, is the
>exit on I-84 practically on the NY/CT state line "Exit 1" and not "Exit 0"?)
Because the highways in neither New York nor Connecticut are numbered by
milepost...
Peter ".sigs are for wimps" D!
Patrick L Humphrey
>pat...@brazos.owlnet.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey) writes:
>>exits sequentially -- and Florida in the last two years has renumbered the
>>Florida Turnpike by mileposts, so a conversion may be upcoming there.)
>It was more than two years ago..
A couple of my cousins in Florida have informed me of that, which was news to
me -- the first mention I saw of it was in the 1991 Rand McNally Road Atlas.
Still, it's a step in the right direction, albeit a small one...now, if they'd
just convert I-10, I-75, and I-95 (oops, and I-4, too).
>I'm going into my fourth year at Florida State..in Tallahassee..I drive between
>Ft. Lauderdale and Tallahassee alot, and as long as I've been doing it, the
>turn pike was numbered by mile markers..but I-75 and I-10 are sequential.
>I tend to say it was 5-10 years ago. I've lived in S. Florida for
>15 years, and I remember the Turn Pike being sequential when I was younger..
Actually, wasn't the Turnpike sequentially numbered on something like an "exit
number * 4" basis? At least I seem to remember a string of consecutive
interchanges in the West Palm Beach area numbered something like 52, then 56,
then 60...
>Related Topic: The turn pike is changing over (slowly) to a pay-as-you-go
>system (a quarter here, fifty cents there..) instead of pay when you
>get off. At least, thats what they say. On the southern 88 miles of it,
>its certainly true. The last exit on the ticket going south is Lantana, at
>mile 88..<Something like $12.50..I looked at an old ticket..about 10 years
>old..when it was numbered sequential..and went further on the ticket..and it
>cost $5.90. Ack!>
Houston's two toll roads were built as the pay-as-you-go type -- and if you
loop around the west and north sides on the Sam Houston Tollway, in its 28
miles you will get to stop at *three* mainline toll plazas and plunk down 75
cents at each. (Or $1 if you don't have exact change. No wonder everyone
uses the feeder roads with the state highway department so thoughtfully built
along the entire 28-mile length...:-)
--PL"will pedal up the Beltway 8 feeders for free"H
--
Patrick L Humphrey
>In article <C9tDK...@world.std.com>, mor...@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes...
>>>New Jersey goes by milepost only on the Garden State Parkway, not on the
>>>NJ Turnpike. Since the NJ Turnpike doesn't have a milepost system, new
>>>exits (such as I-195) have had to be numbered "7A" and such.
>>
>>I believe I-80 in NJ is numbered by milepost.
>As are I-287 and I-78, although with exceptions in the former case, as I've
>noted elsewhere.
>>
>>One strange artifact of milepost numberings is a few Exit 0 s in some areas.
>That happens only when the exit is right on the state line, or effectively so.
>Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atlas
>is to be believed, is on I-80/90 at the Indiana/Illinois state line. Where's the
>other one (and why, going back to the absurdities of milepost numbering, is the
>exit on I-84 practically on the NY/CT state line "Exit 1" and not "Exit 0"?)
Because there aren't enough people in that area who work in computer-related
businesses, and thus would be used to counting starting with zero.
The one Exit 0 I've seen is on the Purchase Parkway toll road in Kentucky, as
the first exit in the Commonwealth (or the last, if you're headed south) after
you get off (or onto) US 51 a couple of hundred yards to the south, in
Tennessee...
--PL"number 'em in hex, then the I-10 downtown exit would be 301"H
--
Robert L. McMillin
> One strange artifact of milepost numberings is a few Exit 0 s in some areas.
> They renumbered Rte 128 (I-95, but you won't catch any locals calling it
> that) here in Mass. not too long ago.
They'll get over it. A friend's mother calls California state route 1
(Pacific Coast Highway, or just "PCH" as most natives call it) 101, back
from the days when PCH was part of the Federal highway system, as it was
back in the '40s. No more, though...
--
Robert L. McMillin | Surf City Software | r...@helen.surfcty.com | Dude!
"What's taking so long? It's only typing!"
-- a marketing manager posing as a software manager
Tom Wood
I-72 ends on the east side of Springfield, Ill. When it crosses
I-55, there is an exit 0A and 0B.
Not only that: immediately north and south of Springfield, I-55
is six lanes; as it goes by Springfield, it is only four lanes.
Local legend has it that the six lane stretches are to accomodate
huge bombers taking off and landing in case of war with the
USSR.
After all, it was the National Defense Highways Act that started
the interstate highway system (said to be THE LARGEST CIVIL
ENGINEERING PROJECT IN HUMAN HISTORY. Wow.) Those highways don't
exist merely for our convenience; they're also there to speed
up ground transportation for military purposes (including
emergency landing strips) in national emergencies.
Tom Wood
Sangamon State University
Springfield ("Home of the Simpsons") Illinois USA
wo...@eagle.sangamon.edu
hulsey
>
>Sometime in the time period 1987-1990 (nice and definite, i know), my
>parents and i stopped at an Arthur Treacher's in Breezewood,
>Pennsylvania. That's the last time i ever saw one. Breezewood, as
>frequent travelers of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (gawd help us all)
>know, is a small town that happens to be at the intersection of the
>Turnpike and a major Interstate - going to Washington, DC, and points
>south, if memory serves. As a result it has an inordinate number of
>fast food and family and truck-stop type restaurants. Back in the
>days when every rest area on the Turnpike had a HoJo's (yes, i _am_
>old enough to remember that!), it was a godsend. Now that they've
>gotten a bit more variety, it simply is the reason for some of the
>gaudiest billboards known to man, including one with the word
>"BREEZEWOOD" in neon, announcing it as the "Town of Motels".
That Interstate would be I-70. In late Nov., 1974 (when I was in 5th
grade), my family was returning to Ohio from a visit to Virginia. When
we got to Breezewood, a state policeman was stopping traffic, telling
all the cars that the Penn. Turnpike going west was closed due to snow
in the mountains, and that all the motels in the "Town of Motels" were
full. We ended up driving to Bedford (the next town west) and stayed
in a church until a Bedford resident took us in. The turnpike opened
the next day. We stopped counting at 200 abandoned cars. Some were
buried ander 15-20 foot snow drifts.
Anybody else have Breezewood memories?
>No one has yet mentioned the best part about Arthur Treacher's, so i
>will: the fat, ridged french fries that allowed you to scoop up a big
>wad of your favorite condiment.
It's just amazing how easy it is to get condiments, nowadays. Not too
long ago you had to ask a pharmacist for them.
Jim "Remeber when Reagan wanted to classify ketchup as a vegetable?" Hulsey
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
hulsey%dbsun...@wupost.wustl.edu (Jim Hulsey) TBDBITL '84 ('85 Rose Bowl)
An Ohioan living in Misery (Missouri, same difference)
I went back to Ohio
But my city was gone
There was no train station
There was no downtown -- The Pretenders "My City Was Gone"
Pete Zakel
>Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atlas
>is to be believed, is on I-80/90 at the Indiana/Illinois state line.
Not 80/90 -- just I-90 (I-80 joins I-90 when it splits off from I-94 east of
Gary, Indiana).
>Where's the
>other one (and why, going back to the absurdities of milepost numbering, is the
>exit on I-84 practically on the NY/CT state line "Exit 1" and not "Exit 0"?)
Don't know the answer to the second question, but the other exit 0 is on
I-20/59 where it enters Alabama from Mississippi.
-Pete Zakel
(p...@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)
Since we're all here, we must not be all there.
-- Bob "Mountain" Beck
Michael Moroney
>> One strange artifact of milepost numberings is a few Exit 0 s in some areas.
>> They renumbered Rte 128 (I-95, but you won't catch any locals calling it
>> that) here in Mass. not too long ago.
>They'll get over it. A friend's mother calls California state route 1
>(Pacific Coast Highway, or just "PCH" as most natives call it) 101, back
>from the days when PCH was part of the Federal highway system, as it was
>back in the '40s. No more, though...
I'm not so sure of that. Nobody around here calls it I-95, including the
young. It will probably still be called 128 after 50 years.
-Mike
Kristy Patterson
>Bruce Tindall (Bruce....@launchpad.unc.edu) wrote:
>: ObUL (what's the source and voracity of this one?): Early in this
>: century, in some sparsely populated country like Algeria or Arabia, there
>: were only two automobiles in the whole country, and they collided with
>: each other. This is probably more properly an instantiation of Murphy's
>: Law than a UL.
>
>Wait! I heard this about Kansas, in the early 1900s. I've seen it in
>print, and I always believed it. Is it going to turn out to be just
>another one of those crummy ULs?
Well, here in Hanover, two police cars managed to run into each other in an
otherwise empty parking lot. A *true* mini-variation on a possible UL...
-Kristy "they're POLICE, so it must be true"
--
+=========================+===============================================+
|Kristy Patterson | "Diplomacy is the patriotic art of |
|kri...@mac.dartmouth.edu| lying for one's country." |
+=========================+===============================================+
Kristy Patterson
Janet Christian
>
>This kind of thing happens every day here in Boston.
>
>I'll be driving home at some ungodly hour like 4AM and the only other
>driver on the road will suddenly pull some bizarre move to get ahead
>of me (like run around me on the right when a light changes), or cut
>me off to make a left in front of me from the other direction, like
>lord knows if he waited for one car his life would just be ruined.
>
>But then again, this is Boston, where no one drives to get anywhere,
>they only drive to annoy everyone else on the road or work out their
>own deep-seated sociopathies.
>
>--
> -Barry Shein
>
>Software Tool & Die | b...@world.std.com | uunet!world!bzs
>Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Boy, I'll go along with that! I used to do lots of business travelling and
the worst place I ever had to drive was Boston. I remember my first trip
there - I pulled up to a 4-way stop intersection. The local fellow who
was riding with me asked, "Why are you stopping?" I, of course, responded
that I had a stop sign. His response was, "This is a 4-way stop, no one
stops at these." Sure enough, the intersection looked like keystone cops.
The other three directions were simply going, zigging around each other in
the middle of the road. I took a deep breath and plunged into the intersection.
Janet "I guess I lived to tell about it, too" Christian
--
Janet Christian jchri...@indetech.com
My boss agrees with everything I say - well, actually, he thinks I'm working.
"Never argue with a Scorpio - it's frustrating and you'll lose, anyway..."
Daniel B Case
>In article <C9tMH...@acsu.buffalo.edu> v140...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel B Case) writes:
>>Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atlas
>>is to be believed, is on I-80/90 at the Indiana/Illinois state line.
>
>Not 80/90 -- just I-90 (I-80 joins I-90 when it splits off from I-94 east of
>Gary, Indiana).
>
>>Where's the
>>other one (and why, going back to the absurdities of milepost numbering, is the
>>exit on I-84 practically on the NY/CT state line "Exit 1" and not "Exit 0"?)
>
>Don't know the answer to the second question, but the other exit 0 is on
>I-20/59 where it enters Alabama from Mississippi.
Well, as the other posters have made clear, there are others besides that one.
Charles Lasner
>
>>> They renumbered Rte 128 (I-95, but you won't catch any locals calling it
>>> that) here in Mass. not too long ago.
>
>young. It will probably still be called 128 after 50 years.
Besides, it's known as Rte. 128 in the classic song "Road Runner" as
performed by Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers, and also by their
Bezerkley Records stable-mates the Greg Kihn Band.
cj "I got the radio on (radio on)" l
Joe George
>>Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atl
>
> Not 80/90 -- just I-90 (I-80 joins I-90 when it splits off from I-94 east of
> Gary, Indiana).
>
> Don't know the answer to the second question, but the other exit 0 is on
> I-20/59 where it enters Alabama from Mississippi.
>
I think the difference is that most states number their exits
sequentially from west-to-east or from south-to-north (i.e., the first
exit number entering the state is Exit 1, and numbered in order till you
get to the next state border then they reset to 1 again), however, some
states (Illinois being one) number their exit numbers _by_mile_marker_
so that if you're passing exit #300 on I-55, you're 300 miles from the
Illinois/Missouri border (where I-55 hits near St. Louis). Technically,
states that number exits sequentially should have exits starting at 1,
and states that number by mile post should have an Exit 0 (being the
first exit into the state's borber, if it's less than a mile from the
border. The first mile post is Mile 0 once you cross states lines, so
the exit should be 0 also.)
Joe "Can name all 44 exits of I-285 from memory" George
--
Joe George (jge...@whiffer.mese.com, emory!indigo!whiffer!jgeorge)
Actually, I _do_ speak for The Waffle Whiffer
M3&]V92!T;R!E870@=&AE;2!M;W5S:65S+`T*36]U<VEE<R!W:&%T($D@;&]V
M92!T;R!E870N#0I":71E('1H97D@;&ET=&QE(&AE861S(&]F9BP-"DYI8F)L
M92!O;B!T:&5Y('1I;GD@9F5E="X-"B`@("`@("`@("`@+4(N($ML:6)A;@T*
Peter Alan Dutton
>
>Joe "Can name all 44 exits of I-285 from memory" George
Well, there's exit 1, and exit 2, and exit 3, and exit 4, and exit 5....
Peter "and exit 6, and exit 7, and exit 9, no, wait, that's exit 8..." D!
Malinda McCall
Moreland Avenue past Little Five Points. Look to your right. If you
go, go during the day.
That's all I have to add.
Except that we also have HoJo's here and in Savannah GA.
MM
bill nelson
:
: Well, here in Hanover, two police cars managed to run into each other in an
: otherwise empty parking lot. A *true* mini-variation on a possible UL...
:
: -Kristy "they're POLICE, so it must be true"
They probably collided when one car pulled up beside the other so the
officer could borrow some Gray Poop-on to put on his doughnut.
Bill
D.M.Procida
las...@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>Besides, it's known as Rte. 128 in the classic song "Road Runner" as
>performed by Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers, and also by their
>Bezerkley Records stable-mates the Greg Kihn Band.
No it's bloody not. It's called "Roadrunner", and Jonathan is called
Richman, and the record company is called Beserkely. And they were
label-mates, not stable-mates. Do you think the Modern Lovers were a
bunch of four *horses* from Boston?
Daniele "Okay now you say it Modern Lovers RADIO ON I got the AM RADIO
ON Got the power got the AM RADIO ON Got the AM sound got the RADIO ON
Got the rockin' modern neon sound RADIO ON I've got the car from
Massachussetts got the RADIO ON I've got the power of Massachussetts
when it's late at night RADIO ON I've got the modern sounds of modern
Massachusetts RADIO ON I got the world I got the turnpike I got the
RADIO ON I got the power of the AM RADIO ON Got the rock & roll late
at night I've got the RADIO ON The factories, neon signs I got the
power of the modern sound RADIO ON
RADIO ON
Ok, Roadrunner, now we say Bye-bye
Bye-bye." Procida
Warren Burstein
>It was Cleveland. The only two _licensed_ cars in the city.
>An important distinction back then.
Well the standard UL seems to have the moral of "watch out for
Murphy", while this variation could be anti-licensing. The
authorities might have argued that the roads would be safer if driving
was limited to those (drivers, cars, whatever) that could qualify for
a license, but look, the only two licensed ...
Warren "of course they crashed because there was only one parking
space outside the license office" Burstein
--
/|/-\/-\ In real life, the Vice President chastises Murphey Brown
|__/__/_/ for her morals. Bill Clinton plays the sax on "Arsenio
|warren@ Hall." Though "Batman Returns" is fiction, it's not too
/ nysernet.org much stranger than truth - Caryn James, The New York Times
Chris Bovitz
>
>>>Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atl
>>
>> Not 80/90 -- just I-90 (I-80 joins I-90 when it splits off from I-94 east of
>> Gary, Indiana).
>>
>> Don't know the answer to the second question, but the other exit 0 is on
>> I-20/59 where it enters Alabama from Mississippi.
>>
>
>I think the difference is that most states number their exits
>sequentially from west-to-east or from south-to-north (i.e., the first
>exit number entering the state is Exit 1, and numbered in order till you
>get to the next state border then they reset to 1 again),
As far as I know, only North Dakota does that.
>however, some states (Illinois being one) number their exit numbers
>_by_mile_marker_ so that if you're passing exit #300 on I-55, you're 300
>miles from the Illinois/Missouri border (where I-55 hits near St. Louis).
So do Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, South Dakota, Kansas, Missouri, Texas,
Oklahoma, Montana, California and "most" other states. I find it *very*
convenient when travelling.
The technical interpretation is that the exit number is that which was the
last mile marker to be passed while moving towards larger mile markers.
For example, Exit #45 would be between mile marker #45 and mile marker #46.
If there's more than one exit between two mile markers, then the letters "A",
"B", "C",... are appended to the number as one goes towards larger mile
markers. As an example, for a "cloverleaf/diamond" exchange, you might see
a sign announcing the exits as "45A & B" The diamond off-ramp would be
labelled "A", and the cloverleaf part off-ramp would be labelled "B". But,
if you're travelling towards smaller mile markers, then the exits would be
announced as "45B & A". Looks weird, but it's right.
The numbering of mile markers on highways begins at the southern (for a
north-south road) or western (east-west road) end of that road. If the
highway starts in the middle of the state, then it's southernmost or
westernmost end would be where you'd start numbering. For highways that
pass through more than one state, the numbering begins at the point where
that highway enters the state at the southern or western part.
For highways that pass through both the southern and western borders of a
state (for example, interstates 90 and 94 through Wisconsin) are numbered
so that 1) it matches the character of the highway (east-west or north-
south) or 2) it's compatible w/ the states it's going into/coming from.
So you probably wouldn't see Exit 234, then as you go into the next state
see Exit 543, or Exit 1, then Exit 1, unless you're going through Rhode
Island. :-)
>Technically, states that number exits sequentially should have exits
>starting at 1, and states that number by mile post should have an Exit
>0 (being the first exit into the state's borber, if it's less than a
>mile from the border. The first mile post is Mile 0 once you cross
>states lines, so the exit should be 0 also.)
Yeah, I agree. But since most people don't think of "0" as the first exit
or don't program in C, "1" is usually the first mile marker you hit as you
enter another state, and it's usually very close to the state line or end
of the road.
Note - A friend of mine who lived in Texas told me about when he would drive
along I-10 westward through Texas. The "846" mile marker as you hit the
Texas border might daunt you.
As you can tell, I've put a lot of though into this kind of stuff. What
the hey. What else you gonna do on long car trips if you're not driving ? :)
And for you Rhode Islanders who caught that above, it's a joke! :)
Chris
--
Chris Bovitz | Native of Tropical Minnesota
Department of Meteorology | (despite what my signature says)
Univ. of Wisconsin - Madison |
moon...@java.meteor.wisc.edu | MST 3K Info Club #16481 Go Twins!
Peter Alan Dutton
>For highways that pass through both the southern and western borders of a
>state (for example, interstates 90 and 94 through Wisconsin) are numbered
>so that 1) it matches the character of the highway (east-west or north-
>south) or 2) it's compatible w/ the states it's going into/coming from.
>So you probably wouldn't see Exit 234, then as you go into the next state
>see Exit 543, or Exit 1, then Exit 1, unless you're going through Rhode
>Island. :-)
Actually, as you drive north on the Hutchinson River Parkway in New York,
the numbers increment by 1 until you get to exit 29. Then the parkway
crosses the Connecticut border and changes name to the Merritt Parkway.
But the exits do not start over at 1 - they start at 27. For what reason,
I don't know.
It is disconcerting to drive and see exit 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 27, 28, 29...
Anyway, to inject some possibly true UL - originally, the interstate
highways were all supposed to have milepost exit numbers that did not
recycle at each state border, but that was scrapped after Eastern and
Northern states states protested that they'd end up with exit numbers
like 3,423 and such.
But a true interstate story - no rest areas may have facilities other
than bathrooms and tourist centers UNLESS the highways were toll roads
or former toll roads that were incorporated into the highway system.
Which is why rest areas on I-95 in Connecticut and Maine have gas stations
and fast food, but rest areas on I-95 in North Carolina don't. This is
supposed to be for reasons of "safety" but I don't really know what is
safer about it. Any clues?
Peter "No cute middle name now, except that the radio station is playing
'Muscles' by Diana Ross and I haven't heard it in at least 10 years and
I thought I'd share that with you" D!
David M. Davis - Public Safety
Well I will break all the rules of AFU and tell on myself.
I was at one time a road officer at Oregon State University. I and
my Sergeant would drive around in seperate cars and occasionally
we would pull up beside each other in a parking lot and debrief
(read this as "shoot the shit"), about the calls we had responded
to that watch. One night as we were so parked we got a call of a
fight at one of the co-ops, weapons involved. I threw the car in gear
punched the excellerator, and neatly crumpled my left front fender
on the rear bumper of the Sergeants car.
On the upside, the motor pool confused the facts and blamed the
Sergeant. It took him a month to clear it up.
David Davis
dav...@ucs.orst.edu
no sig
no patrol either
Patrick L Humphrey
[among other stuff]
>Note - A friend of mine who lived in Texas told me about when he would drive
>along I-10 westward through Texas. The "846" mile marker as you hit the
>Texas border might daunt you.
It'd be daunting, all right -- it'd mean that for reasons unknown, Louisiana
had annexed Orange County and the eastern half of Jefferson County. (846 is
on the southwest fringe of Beaumont. The last Texas exit on I-10 before
you cross the Sabine into Louisiana is numbered 880. :-)
--
Patrick L. Humphrey (pat...@is.rice.edu) Rice Networking & Computing Systems
+1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 776-1541 at home. 667-6554 at Palace Lanes.
(a long-time resident of five miles south of Exit 756)
* Hit any key to continue, or any other key to quit. *
Chris Walker
> along I-10 westward through Texas. The "846" mile marker as you hit the
> Texas border might daunt you.
>
> As you can tell, I've put a lot of though into this kind of stuff. What
> the hey. What else you gonna do on long car trips if you're not driving ? :)
Just as an aside, every state I've ever driven through (Arkansas Ilinois,
Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Tennesee, Kentucky,) Execpt my home state of
Pennsylvania has nummbered the exits on the interestate according to the Mile
markers. It's really conveneient when doing long distance traveling (at least
from east to west or north to south) Pensylvania seems to like to give people
troble in alot of areas, not just long distance traveling, but I guess that
goes for government in general.
_______________________________________________________________________
Chris Walker | The more people I meet, |
e-mail: cdwa...@acs.harding.edu | the more I like my dog |
snail-mail: none of you business | |
ma-bell : dittos | Carpe Deim |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe George
>>I think the difference is that most states number their exits
> ^^^^ - wha?
>>sequentially from west-to-east or from south-to-north (i.e., the first
>>exit number entering the state is Exit 1, and numbered in order till you
>>get to the next state border then they reset to 1 again),
>
> As far as I know, only North Dakota does that.
>
Many Eastern states do that, including Georgia, where I live. Seems
that milepost numbering is more widespread but it's not very prevalent
in this half of the country.
Joe
Warren Burstein
>Ok, Roadrunner, now we say Bye-bye
I said Roadrunner once, I said Roadrunner twice, what I tell you three
times is true.
Charles Lasner
>In article <1993Jul10.2...@news.columbia.edu>
>las...@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>
>>Besides, it's known as Rte. 128 in the classic song "Road Runner" as
>>performed by Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers, and also by their
>>Bezerkley Records stable-mates the Greg Kihn Band.
>
>No it's bloody not. It's called "Roadrunner", and Jonathan is called
>Richman, and the record company is called Beserkely. And they were
>label-mates, not stable-mates. Do you think the Modern Lovers were a
>bunch of four *horses* from Boston?
Mea Culpa. However:
Usual net.etiquette is not to post merely to point out speling erors. I
never saw the album, just heard the song on the radio. (Because I've got
*my* radio on!)
I used the word stable-mates deliberately, because often record companies
treat their contracted bands worse than horse-owners treat race horses,
and otherwise it's just a colourful (note the extra u for your benefit)
analogy, etc.
>
>Daniele "Okay now you say it Modern Lovers RADIO ON I got the AM RADIO
>ON Got the power got the AM RADIO ON Got the AM sound got the RADIO ON
>Got the rockin' modern neon sound RADIO ON I've got the car from
>Massachussetts got the RADIO ON I've got the power of Massachussetts
>when it's late at night RADIO ON I've got the modern sounds of modern
>Massachusetts RADIO ON I got the world I got the turnpike I got the
>RADIO ON I got the power of the AM RADIO ON Got the rock & roll late
>at night I've got the RADIO ON The factories, neon signs I got the
>power of the modern sound RADIO ON
>
>RADIO ON
>
>Ok, Roadrunner, now we say Bye-bye
>
>Bye-bye." Procida
Two points:
1) The Greg Kihn version changed the AM radio reference and the 50,000 watts
of power to FM and 100,000 watts.
2) You didn't quote the part about Rte 128 in Boston which is where this
whole thread came from originally. (Please do. Also the specific part about
the power rating.)
cj "As correctable as a CRC/ECC error" l
Diane Kelly
In article <1993Jul11....@ualr.edu>, CDWA...@acs.harding.edu
(Chris Walker) writes:
> X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24In-Reply-To: gop...@picard.cs.wisc.edu's
message of Sun, 11 Jul 1993 22:27:02 GMTLines: 67
|>
|> > >I think the difference is that most states number their exits
|> > ^^^^ - wha?
|> > >sequentially from west-to-east or from south-to-north (i.e., the
|> first
|> > >exit number entering the state is Exit 1, and numbered in order
|> till you
|> > >get to the next state border then they reset to 1 again),
|> >
|> > As far as I know, only North Dakota does that.
|> >
|> > >however, some states (Illinois being one) number their exit
|> numbers
|> > >_by_mile_marker_ so that if you're passing exit #300 on I-55,
|> you're 300
|> > >miles from the Illinois/Missouri border (where I-55 hits near St.
|> Louis).
|> >
|> > So do Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, South Dakota, Kansas, Missouri,
|> Texas,
|> > Oklahoma, Montana, California and "most" other states. I find it
|> *very*
|> > convenient when travelling.
|> >
|> Just as an aside, every state I've ever driven through (Arkansas
|> Ilinois,
|> Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Tennesee, Kentucky,) Execpt my home state
|> of
|> Pennsylvania has nummbered the exits on the interestate according to
|> the Mile
|> markers. It's really conveneient when doing long distance traveling
|> (at least
|> from east to west or north to south) Pensylvania seems to like to
|> give people
|> troble in alot of areas, not just long distance traveling, but I
|> guess that
|> goes for government in general.
|>
mile-numbered exits. The obvious advantage, especially in a state with
lots of population growth (like Va.), is that you can add new exits
without having to renumber the whole dang road!
Jim Cambias
The Road Warrior
Misusing His Wife's Account
At Duke Bio
Martin W Kuhn
Obviously, there's lots of "Exit 0"'s around the country; in fact, just a
few miles from here where I-380 splits from I-80, there are *two* Exit 0's
at the end of I-380 (Exits 0A and 0B) However, since I-380 is technically
a spur, it might not count. However, I think there is an Exit 0 on
I-70 in Indiana, Ohio, or W Va; I know I've seen other Exit 0's before...
Some other Interstate thoughts...
Sometime I've got to check my 'ol Rand McNally on this, but:
It would seem that I-380 in Iowa is the longest Interstate spur, being over
75 miles long, (runs from Iowa City to Waterloo) and also seems to be likely
to be extended at both ends in the near future, so it could get even longer...
It would also seem that I-66 (not to be confused with US 66, which, alas, no
longer exists in an offical manner...) is the shortest "true" (2-digit)
Interstate highway, being only about 65-70 miles in length. (runs from
Stratasburg, VA (I think) to Wash, DC.) Also, I-66 perhaps could be the
only Interstate highway that doesn't actually connect through 2 or more
states. (DC is not a state)
Also, is I-695 in Maryland (the "beltway" around Baltimore) the only
Interstate-labeled highway that has a portion that is *not* at least a
4-lane divided limited-access highway? (there is a 4 mile or so stretch
just east of the toll bridge at the southern part of the loop that is only
two lanes and is not divided, and *no* is isn't/wasn't due to road
construction-- this is/was rather permanent looking...) Also, no this isn't
a "Business Loop," which doesn't count as part of an Interstate highway
anyway...
--Marty
Oops; wait, I forgot I need a middle name for this group; try again--
--Marty "My diodes are .6V Zeners" Kuhn
Peter Alan Dutton
>Sometime I've got to check my 'ol Rand McNally on this, but:
>
>It would seem that I-380 in Iowa is the longest Interstate spur, being over
>75 miles long, (runs from Iowa City to Waterloo) and also seems to be likely
>to be extended at both ends in the near future, so it could get even longer...
I think I-395 through Connecticut and Massachusetts is at least as long.
And that changes number to I-290 at the Mass Pike (I-90), which splits
off to I-190 north of Worcester, which continues on another 30 or so miles.
I-495 in New York (aka the Long Island Expressway) is actually a spur,
despite having a loop number. It's about 75 miles long as well.
>It would also seem that I-66 (not to be confused with US 66, which, alas, no
>longer exists in an offical manner...) is the shortest "true" (2-digit)
>Interstate highway, being only about 65-70 miles in length. (runs from
>Stratasburg, VA (I think) to Wash, DC.) Also, I-66 perhaps could be the
>only Interstate highway that doesn't actually connect through 2 or more
>states. (DC is not a state)
I-97 near Annapolis is even shorter - about 10 miles at the most, I think.
Needless to say, it only runs through Maryland.
Peter "This is true until someone proves otherwise" D!
ethan miller
=>
=>It would seem that I-380 in Iowa is the longest Interstate spur,
=>being over 75 miles long, (runs from Iowa City to Waterloo) and also
=>seems to be likely to be extended at both ends in the near future,
=>so it could get even longer...
I-580 in the San Francisco area is 85 miles long, running from I-5 to
San Rafael. I-135 in Kansas (Wichita - Salina) is 95 miles long.
However, I-495 (the outer Boston Beltway) is 100+ miles long. The map
is too crowded to figure out the actual mileage. Yes, it's not really
a spur, but it seems to be the longest connecting interstate.
=>It would also seem that I-66 (not to be confused with US 66, which,
=>alas, no longer exists in an offical manner...) is the shortest
=>"true" (2-digit) Interstate highway, being only about 65-70 miles in
=>length. (runs from Stratasburg, VA (I think) to Wash, DC.) Also,
=>I-66 perhaps could be the only Interstate highway that doesn't
=>actually connect through 2 or more states. (DC is not a state)
I-86 in Idaho appears to be a mile or two shorter than I-66. Also,
I-86 doesn't cross the Idaho state border. I-19 and I-17, both in
Arizona, never leave the state. I-27 in Texas likewise never crosses
a border. I-4 is wholly within the state of Florida. I assume you're
excluding Hawaii, since the interstate highways there have little
chance of going to other states.
On a different note, I-84 is a reused interstate number. There are
distinct I-84's in the Northwest and New England. Are other two digit
numbers reused? Also, is I-238 in the Bay Area the only three digit
interstate that doesn't connect to the appropriate highway (there
isn't an I-38 anywhere near San Francisco)?
ethan
--
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
ethan miller--cs grad student | "Why is it whatever we don't
e...@cs.berkeley.edu | understand is called a 'thing'?"
#include <std/disclaimer.h> | -- "Bones" McCoy
David W Hatunen
>In article <1993Jul13.1...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> mk...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Martin W Kuhn) writes:
>=>Sometime I've got to check my 'ol Rand McNally on this, but:
>=>
>=>It would seem that I-380 in Iowa is the longest Interstate spur,
>=>being over 75 miles long, (runs from Iowa City to Waterloo) and also
>=>seems to be likely to be extended at both ends in the near future,
>=>so it could get even longer...
>
>I-580 in the San Francisco area is 85 miles long, running from I-5 to
>San Rafael. I-135 in Kansas (Wichita - Salina) is 95 miles long.
>However, I-495 (the outer Boston Beltway) is 100+ miles long. The map
>is too crowded to figure out the actual mileage. Yes, it's not really
>a spur, but it seems to be the longest connecting interstate.
I-580 may be a slight cheat since it's actually two spurs: one from I-80
in Richmond to San Rafael, and the other from I-80 in Oakland to I-5 south
of Tracy.
>=>It would also seem that I-66 (not to be confused with US 66, which,
>=>alas, no longer exists in an offical manner...) is the shortest
>=>"true" (2-digit) Interstate highway, being only about 65-70 miles in
>=>length. (runs from Stratasburg, VA (I think) to Wash, DC.) Also,
>=>I-66 perhaps could be the only Interstate highway that doesn't
>=>actually connect through 2 or more states. (DC is not a state)
I-380 in the SFBay area is less than two miles long. Although it's 3-digit
it actually doesn't lie anywhere near I-80 and connects I-280 and US 101,
so I would contend it's actually a distinct Interstate.
I-17 and I-19 in Arizona both lie entirely within the state.
>I-86 in Idaho appears to be a mile or two shorter than I-66. Also,
>I-86 doesn't cross the Idaho state border. I-19 and I-17, both in
>Arizona, never leave the state. I-27 in Texas likewise never crosses
>a border. I-4 is wholly within the state of Florida. I assume you're
>excluding Hawaii, since the interstate highways there have little
>chance of going to other states.
>
>On a different note, I-84 is a reused interstate number. There are
>distinct I-84's in the Northwest and New England. Are other two digit
>numbers reused? Also, is I-238 in the Bay Area the only three digit
>interstate that doesn't connect to the appropriate highway (there
>isn't an I-38 anywhere near San Francisco)?
My guess is that 238 was originally a state hwy number. Wonder how it got
the I- in front of it.
Neither I-280 nor I-380 on the SF Peninsula connects to I-80, although
I-280 was supposed to connect at the now defunct I-480 Embarcadero Fwy.
I-280, I-680 and I-880 are all spurs although they have loop numbers.
I-280 and I-680 would form a loop if I-280 did connect to I-80
--
--------- DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) ----------
----- Daly City California: almost San Francisco -----
Duncan J. Shaw
according to my observation.
I-80 Is the main interstate highway leading to San Francisco.
I-280, I-480 (now non-existant - collapsed in the earthquake), I-680, and I-880
all run in a North-South direction (all first digits even).
I-380, I-580, I-780, & I-980 all run ease-west direction (all first digits
odd).
I don't know if this is just chance, or if the Interstate highway planners
went against the loop/spur numbering system.
Oh, BTW, I-238 is about a 2 mile long freeway connecting I-880 and I-580.
It used to be California highway 238.
--
Duncan J. Shaw News Director, KSCR 104.7 FM
ds...@aludra.usc.edu (213) 740-1487
Michael D. Maxfield
>
>I-280, I-480 (now non-existant - collapsed in the earthquake), I-680, and I-880
>all run in a North-South direction (all first digits even).
>
>I-380, I-580, I-780, & I-980 all run ease-west direction (all first digits
>odd).
>
>It used to be California highway 238.
SR-237 is south of 238 while SR-242 is north of 238.
(SR = State Route)
ethan miller
=>It used to be California highway 238.
It's still a surface street from Castro Valley through Fremont, and is
still called CA 238 for that stretch. It's only the segment from San
Lorenzo to Castro Valley that's an interstate.
Daniel B Case
>>=>
>>=>It would seem that I-380 in Iowa is the longest Interstate spur,
>>=>being over 75 miles long, (runs from Iowa City to Waterloo) and also
>>=>seems to be likely to be extended at both ends in the near future,
>>=>so it could get even longer...
>>
>>I-580 in the San Francisco area is 85 miles long, running from I-5 to
>>San Rafael. I-135 in Kansas (Wichita - Salina) is 95 miles long.
>>However, I-495 (the outer Boston Beltway) is 100+ miles long. The map
>>is too crowded to figure out the actual mileage. Yes, it's not really
>>a spur, but it seems to be the longest connecting interstate.
>
>I-580 may be a slight cheat since it's actually two spurs: one from I-80
>in Richmond to San Rafael, and the other from I-80 in Oakland to I-5 south
>of Tracy.
Speaking of spurs vs. loops, has it ever occurred to anyone that, like I-495
(which, strictly speaking, becomes NY 495 at the Queens/Nassau County line),
some loop-numbered routes are actually spurs: I-280 in New Jersey only connects
to I-80 at its western end in Parsippany, I-290 here in Buffalo is connected to
I-90 at only one end, and likewise with I-690 in Syracuse. Does a loop count as
such if it's theoretically possible to loop back to the parent route at one end,
or connects to another interstate route at its other end? That would make sense
of the numbering of I-90's subroutes here in New York (two of which (I-590 in
Rochester, and I-990 here in Amherst, (which is also, I believe, the highest
interstate route number in the whole system) do not connect to the parent road
at all. I also believe I-90 in New York is the only statewide stretch to have
used its full complement of three-digit routes.
On the further subject of NY roads, I also believe that NY 17 is the longest
freeway in the country to not carry an interstate designation (with the
exception of three or four miles in Binghamton contiguous with I-81).
>>=>It would also seem that I-66 (not to be confused with US 66, which,
>>=>alas, no longer exists in an offical manner...) is the shortest
>>=>"true" (2-digit) Interstate highway, being only about 65-70 miles in
>>=>length. (runs from Stratasburg, VA (I think) to Wash, DC.) Also,
>>=>I-66 perhaps could be the only Interstate highway that doesn't
>>=>actually connect through 2 or more states. (DC is not a state)
>
>I-380 in the SFBay area is less than two miles long. Although it's 3-digit
>it actually doesn't lie anywhere near I-80 and connects I-280 and US 101,
>so I would contend it's actually a distinct Interstate.
>
>I-17 and I-19 in Arizona both lie entirely within the state.
>>I-86 in Idaho appears to be a mile or two shorter than I-66. Also,
>>I-86 doesn't cross the Idaho state border. I-19 and I-17, both in
>>Arizona, never leave the state. I-27 in Texas likewise never crosses
>>a border. I-4 is wholly within the state of Florida. I assume you're
>>excluding Hawaii, since the interstate highways there have little
>>chance of going to other states.
Likewise, I-88 remains entirely within NY.
>>On a different note, I-84 is a reused interstate number. There are
>>distinct I-84's in the Northwest and New England. Are other two digit
>>numbers reused?
I-76 (East: NJ, PA and OH; West: at least Colorado), I-84 (East: MA, CT, NY,
and PA, not counting the fact that the stretch just east of the Delaware River
clips a little bit of NJ; West: UT, ID, WA (the section of I-84 just north of
the Utah border is the deadliest stretch of interstate in the US, BTW), and
formerly I-86 (East: was planned but scrapped in CT and MA; West: I don't have
an atlas handy) repeat. I wonder why? I guess they needed more routes and
thought nobody would confuse the two as they were so far apart.
>
>My guess is that 238 was originally a state hwy number. Wonder how it got
>the I- in front of it.
Interesting. Must have gotten the FHA to relax the rules for it.
>
>Neither I-280 nor I-380 on the SF Peninsula connects to I-80, although
>I-280 was supposed to connect at the now defunct I-480 Embarcadero Fwy.
>I-280, I-680 and I-880 are all spurs although they have loop numbers.
>I-280 and I-680 would form a loop if I-280 did connect to I-80
Like I said above: I-290 forms a loop by connecting to I-190, and I-690 forms
a loop with the help of I-481.
Daniel Case State University of New York At Buffalo
"Hey, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"-Dr. Strangelove
V140...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Prodigy: WDNS15D GEnie: DCASE.10
ethan miller
=>>On a different note, I-84 is a reused interstate number. There are
=>>distinct I-84's in the Northwest and New England. Are other two digit
=>>numbers reused? Also, is I-238 in the Bay Area the only three digit
=>>interstate that doesn't connect to the appropriate highway (there
=>>isn't an I-38 anywhere near San Francisco)?
=>
=>My guess is that 238 was originally a state hwy number. Wonder how
=>it got the I- in front of it.
They were out of x80 numbers in California when that stretch of CA 238
was upgraded to interstate. At the time, Bay Area freeways included
I-280 (San Jose - SF), I-380 (I-280 to SF Airport), CA-480
(Embarcadero Freeway), I-580 (I-5 to San Rafael), I-680 (San Jose -
north of Benicia), I-780 (Benicia - Vallejo), I-880 (San Jose -
Oakland), and I-980 (I-880 cutoff to I-580). The remaining x80 route
number, 180, is used by a small road from Fresno to Kings Canyon NP in
central California. Undoubtedly, it was named before the interstate
system came in. Since there were no x80 numbers left, the freeway was
given the same number as the CA route it superseded. Since then,
CA-480 is gone (damaged in the Loma Prieta quake and torn down), and
I-980 could probably be renamed as the end of I-880. Perhaps they'll
reuse CA-480 and rename I-238 to I-480.
Daniel B Case
>Some other Interstate thoughts...
>
>Also, is I-695 in Maryland (the "beltway" around Baltimore) the only
>Interstate-labeled highway that has a portion that is *not* at least a
>4-lane divided limited-access highway? (there is a 4 mile or so stretch
>just east of the toll bridge at the southern part of the loop that is only
>two lanes and is not divided, and *no* is isn't/wasn't due to road
>construction-- this is/was rather permanent looking...) Also, no this isn't
>a "Business Loop," which doesn't count as part of an Interstate highway
>anyway...
When I-81 crosses the first of the two Thousand Island bridges in upstate
New York, it becomes a two-lane undivided highway and then returns to being an
interstate. This is due to the bridges preceding the interstate. Of course they
could always just build another bridge, like they did for I-190 on Grand Island,
but the traffic's lower there so I guess they don't need to.
Dan "despite it being the gateway to Kingston, Ontario" Case
Chris Bovitz
Officially, interstate highways that are even numbered (in their rightmost
digit) are east-west roads, and those that are odd numbered are north-south.
This gets a little screwy near cities and in business loops, but works for
the most part. I think that the commission (or whatever entity) set up
the numbering system like the way the U.S. highway system (that US-66 and
US-101 are part of :) was set up, so they copied it, except they started
numbering highways at the south and west part of the country so you wouldn't
have US-1 and I-1 near each other and cause millions of people to become
confused.
The first digit of a 3-digit interstate highway number gives a description
of what it does when it leaves the main highway: an even number means it
goes around a city; an odd number means it goes through a city. Or you
can have something like what I-35 does in Minneapolis-St. Paul and Dallas-
Ft. Worth where it splits into I-35E (to St. Paul, Dallas) and I-35W (to
Minneapolis, Ft. Worth). I don't think that this is the way that the US
highway system is set up, 'cause US-101 is nowhere near US-1, unless you
do a MOD 100 on the country :)
BTW, what is a "business spur", which is designated by a white-on-green
interstate highway sign?
Mesmerized in Madison,
Peter Alan Dutton
>
>Speaking of spurs vs. loops, has it ever occurred to anyone that, like I-495
>(which, strictly speaking, becomes NY 495 at the Queens/Nassau County line),
The Long Island Expressway has been I-495 its entire length for quite a
few years now. But it is indeed a spur, and it doesn't even connect to
I-95. Technically. One supposes that the I-495 that disconnects from the
NJ Turnpike (which is I-95 in the northern section) and goes through the
Lincoln Tunnel into Manhattan is actually supposed to continue across
Manhattan and into the Queens-Midtown Tunnel, where the LIE begins.
But it doesn't.
One can further suppose that I-495 could continue over a bridge across
the Long Island Sound at its Eastern end, thus hooking back up with I-95
somewhere between New Haven and New London, and thus becoming a full-fledged
loop.
On the subjects of loops, I believe that I-287 from the Outerbridge
Crossing around through New Jersey, up through the section that will be
completed in a few years, up into Upstate New York, across the Tappan
Zee Bridge and back to I-95 on the NY-CT state line will be the longest
three-digit interstate. And orignially it was supposed to go over the
Sound and connect with the Seaford-Oyster Bay expressway and end at
Jones Beach, but the residents of Oyster Bay made a huge snit because they
were rich, and so the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway (NY 135, for those
who are keeping track) doesn't even go to Oyster Bay. It's strange - a
six-lane highway in Nassau County that goes from nowhere to nowhere and
thus NEVER HAS ANY TRAFFIC...
In any case, I guess it's about time someone wrote a book about all this.
Peter "But can I discuss my thighs at such length?" D!
lrud...@vax.clarku.edu
>I think that the commission (or whatever entity) set up
>US-101 are part of :) was set up, so they copied it, except they started
>numbering highways at the south and west part of the country so you wouldn't
>have US-1 and I-1 near each other and cause millions of people to become
>confused.
Accepting for the sake of argument that there _was_ a systematic way that
"the U.S. highway system (that US-66 and US-101 are part of :)" was numbered,
and more specifically that this system was oriented oppositely to the
Interstate numbering system (i.e., starting at the north and east rather
than the west and south), it ought to follow from some topological argument
I'm too sleepy to reason out (essentially the intermediate value theorem)
that _somewhere_ in the middle of the country the two systems would have
roads with the same numbers near each other, causing hundreds if not thousands
of stolid midwesterners to become confused ANYWAY.
So, is there such a coincidence of numbering systems anywhere? And does it
lead to confusion?
Lee "spaghetti midwestern syntax and cloverleafs 'r' us" Rudolph
David W Hatunen
longest non-Interstate freeway. The freeway portion of Hwy 101 from the
San Fernando Valley to (I'm not sure where: San Jose?) could have been,
but there are short 200-yd sections that are non-freeway (to avoid
building interchanges for lone houses out in the boonies).
Peter Alan Dutton
>Just a bit more to gum up the works :) (or, In case you didn't know...)
>
>Officially, interstate highways that are even numbered (in their rightmost
>digit) are east-west roads, and those that are odd numbered are north-south.
>This gets a little screwy near cities and in business loops, but works for
>the most part.
As in I-66 which runs east to Norfolk, curves around Norfolk, and then
spends its last few "east" miles running due west.
>I think that the commission (or whatever entity) set up
>the numbering system like the way the U.S. highway system (that US-66 and
>US-101 are part of :) was set up, so they copied it, except they started
>numbering highways at the south and west part of the country so you wouldn't
>have US-1 and I-1 near each other and cause millions of people to become
>confused.
The US highway system was numbered in order of the highway being
added to the system, which is nothing like the numbering of the
Interstate system. Now all I need is a complete list of US highways.
BTW - what US highway has the highest number? I seem to recall a US 666
in nothern Arizona...
>BTW, what is a "business spur", which is designated by a white-on-green
>interstate highway sign?
I think it's just to please the businesses in the town that were left
off the direct Interstate route. Or the portions of the Interstate that
aren't limited access highways. The highways may have been built around
the section, but the business spur remains.
Peter "Why the heck do I find this stuff fascinating?" D!
Pete Zakel
>I-97 near Annapolis is even shorter - about 10 miles at the most, I think.
>Needless to say, it only runs through Maryland.
It's 7 miles long according to my 1990 R-M.
-Pete "middle name is my middle name" Zakel
(p...@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)
Scientific Method: The widely held philosophy that a theory can never be
proved, only disproved, and that all attempts to
explain anything are therefore futile.
-THE LAST WORD, The Ultimate Scientific Dictionary
Patrick L Humphrey
>In article <C9v7I...@Cadence.COM> p...@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
>>In article <C9tMH...@acsu.buffalo.edu> v140...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel B Case) writes:
>>>Supposedly there are only two "Exit 0"s in the whole US. One, if the R-M atlas
>>>is to be believed, is on I-80/90 at the Indiana/Illinois state line.
>>
>>Not 80/90 -- just I-90 (I-80 joins I-90 when it splits off from I-94 east of
>>Gary, Indiana).
>>
>>>Where's the
>>>other one (and why, going back to the absurdities of milepost numbering, is the
>>>exit on I-84 practically on the NY/CT state line "Exit 1" and not "Exit 0"?)
>>
>>Don't know the answer to the second question, but the other exit 0 is on
>>I-20/59 where it enters Alabama from Mississippi.
>>
>>-Pete Zakel
>> (p...@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)
>>
>Obviously, there's lots of "Exit 0"'s around the country; in fact, just a
>few miles from here where I-380 splits from I-80, there are *two* Exit 0's
>at the end of I-380 (Exits 0A and 0B) However, since I-380 is technically
>a spur, it might not count. However, I think there is an Exit 0 on
>I-70 in Indiana, Ohio, or W Va; I know I've seen other Exit 0's before...
Could be; I've seen the one on the Purchase Parkway in Kentucky (which isn't
part of the Interstate system, though it may wind up in it eventually) and the
aforementioned one on I-20/59 in Alabama.
>Some other Interstate thoughts...
>Sometime I've got to check my 'ol Rand McNally on this, but:
>It would seem that I-380 in Iowa is the longest Interstate spur, being over
>75 miles long, (runs from Iowa City to Waterloo) and also seems to be likely
>to be extended at both ends in the near future, so it could get even longer...
I-135 (from south of Wichita to near Salina, in Kansas) is around 90 miles,
isn't it? (I've only been on the part from Newton south, and that was around
the 30 milepost, but we were at least 55 or so south of Manhattan, so 90 is a
rough guess.)
>It would also seem that I-66 (not to be confused with US 66, which, alas, no
>longer exists in an offical manner...) is the shortest "true" (2-digit)
>Interstate highway, being only about 65-70 miles in length. (runs from
>Stratasburg, VA (I think) to Wash, DC.) Also, I-66 perhaps could be the
>only Interstate highway that doesn't actually connect through 2 or more
>states. (DC is not a state)
I-97 in Maryland, it looks like, holds that honor -- from the south side of
Baltimore to Annapolis, which isn't much more than about 40 miles, if that
much. As far as highways within a state, there are many -- I-86 in Idaho,
I-17 and I-19 in Arizona, I-4 in Florida, I-12 and I-49 in Louisiana, I-43 in
Wisconsin, I-16 in Georgia, I-39 and I-72 in Illinois, I-96 in Michigan,
and I-27, I-37, *and* I-45 right here in Texas. (I'm not sure just how to
categorize I-88, with one section of it entirely within New York and the other
within Illinois.)
--PLH, missed that exit on 59 and had to go all the way to Richmond to turn
around
--
Doug Spindler
: [US & Interstate numbering schemes]
: that _somewhere_ in the middle of the country the two systems would have
: roads with the same numbers near each other, causing hundreds if not thousands
: of stolid midwesterners to become confused ANYWAY.
: So, is there such a coincidence of numbering systems anywhere? And does it
: lead to confusion?
I can find no place where US-XX meets I-XX. The closest conjunctions
in same-direction interstates & US highways seem to be I-43 & US-41 in
Wisconsin.
For more major interstates I-55 & US-51 and I-64 & US-60 are close for
much of their length. [There appears to be no even-numbered I-5Xs.
(followups to alt.conspiracy.missing.interstates)]
There is a NW-SE swath where the potential exists for I-X meeting
US-X+/-1. Some instances: I-16/US-17 in Ga, I-35/US-34 in Ia,
I-80/US-81 in Ne etc.
I doubt that there is a significant incremental increase in confusion
due to any of this.
BTW I-95 in Maine up towards Bangor was at one time 2-lane. Maybe a
Mainiac can confirm where this condition still obtains.
Doug "I tried not to post to this thread, but ..." Spindler
Daniel P. Faigin
>>I-580 in the San Francisco area is 85 miles long, running from I-5 to
>>San Rafael. I-135 in Kansas (Wichita - Salina) is 95 miles long.
>>However, I-495 (the outer Boston Beltway) is 100+ miles long. The map
>>is too crowded to figure out the actual mileage. Yes, it's not really
>>a spur, but it seems to be the longest connecting interstate.
> I-580 may be a slight cheat since it's actually two spurs: one from I-80
> in Richmond to San Rafael, and the other from I-80 in Oakland to I-5 south
> of Tracy.
The official definition of 580 is as follows:
580 (a) from Rte 5 NW of Vernalis to Rte 80 near Oakland via the vicinity of
Dublin and Hayward [Approved as chargeable Interstate on 7/7/1947,
later adjusted in 1955 and 1957]
(b) from Rte 80 near Albany to Rte 101 near San Fafael via the Richmond-San
Rafael Bridge [Approved as chargeable interstate in April 1978;
originally numbered as Rte 180; the portion between Castro Street in
Richmond and Rte 101 is 139(a) non-chargeable milage]
> I-380 in the SFBay area is less than two miles long. Although it's 3-digit
> it actually doesn't lie anywhere near I-80 and connects I-280 and US 101,
> so I would contend it's actually a distinct Interstate.
I-380 was originally going to be longer, but the first part was never
constructed. I-380 is chargable interstate. Here's the definition of the
route:
380 (a) from Rte 1 near Pacifica to Rte 280 in San Bruno [proposed]
(b) from Rte 280 in San Bruno to Rte 101 in the vicinity of the San
Francisco International Airport [Approved as chargeable interstate
in December 1968]
> My guess is that 238 was originally a state hwy number. Wonder how it got
> the I- in front of it.
I-238 is non-chargable interstate (See my "California Highway List" posting
for an explanation of this. The numbering exception was approved by AASHTO.
Daniel
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Daniel P. Faigin
> I-280, I-480 (now non-existant - collapsed in the earthquake), I-680, and I-880
> all run in a North-South direction (all first digits even).
It's not the first digit that determine it.
One and Two digit routes:
Odd: North/South, lowest numbers in the west
Even: East/West, lowest numbers in the south
Three digit routes:
last two digits: base route
first digit odd: spur into urban area (at the time of numbering)
first digit even: loop around urban area (at the time of numbering)
> Oh, BTW, I-238 is about a 2 mile long freeway connecting I-880 and I-580.
> It used to be California highway 238.
It still is. CalTrans makes no distinction between the different types (I-,
US-, or CA-) of signage.
Daniel P. Faigin
said:
> I don't think that this is the way that the US
> highway system is set up, 'cause US-101 is nowhere near US-1, unless you
> do a MOD 100 on the country :)
I think US101 is an exception, since the rule seems to hold true for other
US highways
> BTW, what is a "business spur", which is designated by a white-on-green
> interstate highway sign?
Usually it is the old route that was replaced by the interstate.
Daniel P. Faigin
> The US highway system was numbered in order of the highway being
> added to the system, which is nothing like the numbering of the
> Interstate system. Now all I need is a complete list of US highways.
Not true. Major highways (cross US) usually had numbers that were multiples of
ten: US90, US80, US70, US50, US40, etc. US6 and US66 seem to be exceptions to
that rule. US1 and US101 were major N/S routes, as were a number of the odd
digits (US95, US99).
> BTW - what US highway has the highest number? I seem to recall a US 666
> in nothern Arizona...
The spurs off of US99 would have had to have had that honor. I'm aware of
US399 and US499.
Rick Colombo
>
> It's not the first digit that determine it.
>
> One and Two digit routes:
> Odd: North/South, lowest numbers in the west
> Even: East/West, lowest numbers in the south
>
> Three digit routes:
> last two digits: base route
> first digit odd: spur into urban area (at the time of numbering)
> first digit even: loop around urban area (at the time of numbering)
>
That's nice on paper, but they don't all follow the rules.
In Chicago, one of the main roads into downtown is I-290. That's a
direct shot, no bypass, right straight into the city. It use to be
I-90, until they reused the number for a new road. (Well the Kennedy
is *new* to me :-). Anyway, I figure the first digit should be odd.
There's a new toll road that goes north/south out in the suburbs,
its number is I-355. It's a north/south connection of several
(somewhat) east/west interstates. When it's completed, it will go
from I-90 to I-88, to I-55, to I-80 (north-south). It does not
connect any major city, just interstates. This is roughly parallel
to I-294 (but several miles to the west), the original bypass.
I would call I-355 a bypass, so the first digit should be even.
And would you believe that the exit to O'Hare airport is I-190?
_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Rick Colombo col...@fnal.gov
_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Fermi National Accelerator Lab
_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Of course I speak for: Fermilab,
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Congress and the President...NOT!