Designer commits suicide
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Most of us are familiar with the stories of the
engineers/architects who have made a stupendous
mistake in building design and have subsequently
committed suicide. But my wife has garnered a
new variation from a friend, no details available.
The general gist is that a highway engineer has
designed an interstate highway which has a
left-hand exit. After a number of years there
have been a significant number of fatalities as
a result of this particular exit design. So he
commits suicide.
No details as to which highway, which exit,
which engineer. There certainly are a large
number of such exits to choose from, particularly
here in Connecticut, where I take a left-hand
exit on the way to work and another on the way
home.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Patricia Holtby
Charles Wm. Dimmick <cdim...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:39391A42...@snet.net...
<clipped just a bit for brevity's sake>
No details as to which highway, which exit,
which engineer. There certainly are a large
number of such exits to choose from, particularly
here in Connecticut, where I take a left-hand
exit on the way to work and another on the way
home.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
In various places on various freeways here in the Los Angeles area, we have
onramps that also function as offramps at the same time. The cars rushing
onto the freeway must dodge the cars getting off the freeway because they
all must use the same lane. At least they're all going in the same
direction. That is, of course, unless they are on live TV as the subject of
our favorite spectator sport here -- police car chases. I've seen a few of
those take a wrong U-turn.
But the best is driving the 101 through Santa Barbara. Left lane offramps
and all. They even have stoplights and cross-traffic on the interstate
there.
Patricia Holtby
McCaffertA
"Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>But the best is driving the 101 through Santa Barbara. Left lane offramps
>and all. They even have stoplights and cross-traffic on the interstate
>there.
Note "101". Note "Interstate". Note dissonance. Slap head. Say "duh".
Patricia Holtby
McCaffertA <mccaf...@aol.comment> wrote in message
news:20000603182000...@nso-cc.aol.com...
Heh. In order to make the slap to have the proper sting, you will have to
make me understand it.
"101" is the term we use here to refer to that particular freeway. I used
"interstate" because for me, as well as many persons in California, it is
the preferred route north (as opposed to using the "5") and will take you
where you want to go. Even to that next state up north (after converging
with other routes), let me see...what is it's name...darn, and they have a
big lake too with real blue water...geez, if I could only think of its
name....
Patricia Holtby
Joseph Yuska
I thought Interstate was reserved for the Eisenhower highways, you know,
the ones he had built big enough to land airplanes on.
Joe Yuska
Patricia Holtby
Joseph Yuska <jyu...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:39398FD4...@mediaone.net...
We've had a few of those, too. But as to the term "interstate," I believe
what Citizen McCaffertA was referring to is that only certain highways and
byways have the official designation of "Interstate," while those other
routes that still manage to cross state lines (thus qualifying, I believe,
for the title of "interstate" without the capital letter) are also referred
to by many with the same term.
Hey, if you're goin' to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your
hair...
Patricia Holtby
Alice Faber
Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> McCaffertA <mccaf...@aol.comment> wrote in message
> news:20000603182000...@nso-cc.aol.com...
> > In article <YYe_4.1816$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> >
> > >But the best is driving the 101 through Santa Barbara. Left lane offramps
> > >and all. They even have stoplights and cross-traffic on the interstate
> > >there.
> >
> > Note "101". Note "Interstate". Note dissonance. Slap head. Say
> > "duh".
>
> Heh. In order to make the slap to have the proper sting, you will have to
> make me understand it.
>
> "101" is the term we use here to refer to that particular freeway. I used
> "interstate" because for me, as well as many persons in California, it is
> the preferred route north (as opposed to using the "5") and will take you
> where you want to go. Even to that next state up north (after converging
> with other routes), let me see...what is it's name...darn, and they have a
> big lake too with real blue water...geez, if I could only think of its
> name....
Well, is Highway 101 part of the Interstate Highway System? I wouldn't
think so, based on its number. I have no doubt that it's a limited
access divided highway, and that people drive on it the same way they
drive on limited access divided highways that *are* part of the
Interstate Highway System. I can think of at least five such highways
here in Connecticut (ObCharles: 2, 3, 8, 9, 15). But these highways
have different colored signs than I-95, I-91, I-84, I-384, and the
other Interstate Highways in Connecticut (some of which don't cross a
state line, but that's another story), and, further, they are not
necessarily designed to the same engineering standards as were used for
the Interstates. At least two of them have traffic lights.
Now, if you want to say "interstate" has gone generic in California, in
the same way "coke" has in much of the south and southwestern US and
"kleenex" has throughout the US, I'd be interested in some citations of
actual usage.
Alice "my way or the highway" Faber
--
==================I don't read crossposts==================
"Sometimes I wish threads would drift faster."
Dan Evans, who is not my lawyer
***** Check out the goodies at http://www.urbanlegends.com *****
Don Del Grande
>> >But the best is driving the 101 through Santa Barbara. Left lane offramps
>> >and all. They even have stoplights and cross-traffic on the interstate
>> >there.
>>
>> Note "101". Note "Interstate". Note dissonance. Slap head. Say
>"duh".
>
>Heh. In order to make the slap to have the proper sting, you will have to
>make me understand it.
>
>"101" is the term we use here to refer to that particular freeway. I used
>"interstate" because for me, as well as many persons in California, it is
>the preferred route north (as opposed to using the "5") and will take you
>where you want to go. Even to that next state up north (after converging
>with other routes), let me see...what is it's name...darn, and they have a
>big lake too with real blue water...geez, if I could only think of its
>name....
"Interstate" refers to the freeways with the blue signs and the white
numbers. One of the "policies" of these freeways is that there are no
traffic lights - in fact, I think that's what the "free" in "freeway"
means. (I vaguely remember about 25 years ago there was a traffic
light on I-80 somewhere between Sacramento and Reno, but I don't think
it's there any more.) "US" highways (the ones with the white signs
and the black numbers), like 101, don't necessarily have this
restriction; in San Francisco, 101 includes quite a bit of Lombard
Street and Van Ness Avenue, with traffic lights at each block.
But back to the "left hand exit" part of the thread...it depends on
how you define "exit", but just north of Berkeley, CA, I-80's two left
lanes split off (until about a year ago, when the exit was moved to
the right side) to what is now I-580 to access the San Rafael Bridge.
---------------------------------------------------
Don Del Grande, del_g...@netvista.net
Also, don't interstate highways have to be divided highways
throughout? That's something not true about highway 101 on the Golden
Gate Bridge...
HOSS
>
> We've had a few of those, too. But as to the term "interstate," I believe
> what Citizen McCaffertA was referring to is that only certain highways and
> byways have the official designation of "Interstate," while those other
> routes that still manage to cross state lines (thus qualifying, I believe,
> for the title of "interstate" without the capital letter) are also referred
> to by many with the same term.
I see and understand your distinction, but many roads are interstate
without being Interstate. Generally, when one refers to an "interstate",
the capitalization is understood. Interstate highways have requirements
for limited access, lack of stoplights, etc. And while U.S. highways are
interstate, I would never tell anyone locally[1] to take "interstate
17"[2] if they needed directions to Elizabeth City, North Carolina. Nor,
if they were looking for an alternate route to our little part of the
Atlantic Ocean, would I suggest they take "interstate 58"[3] until they
hit the sand.
I would further suggest the title of "Interstate" would apply only to
Interstates, while the description of "interstate" would apply only to
Interstates and U.S. routes.
--
Robert "uses both i-58 and i-17 frequently" Flournoy
WC for '00: 4, 7, 9, 14, 21, 22, 28, 66, 71, 90, 99
Hail to the Redskins. Fire Norv Now.
"With winter now past, I guess it's too late to hear anything
about ice worms and snow snakes. Gotta be satisfied with ass lizards."
Larry Palletti on a.f.u. noting the changing of season
HOSS
[1] Southeastern Virginia
[2] US 17
[3] US 58
--
Robert Flournoy
Alice Faber
Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> I don't doubt one single word you said. I only have a small observation to
> contribute. Get on the aforementioned 101 (or 5 or 405) at rush hour here in
> Los Angeles and I don't think you will ever refer to it again as
> "limited-access." Limited-forward-motion? A resounding yes. Limited access?
> I only wish.
Well, sure. You could say the same for just about any highway used by
commuters in a major metropolitan area. But, like "Interstate",
"limited access" has a precise meaning for highways; it has nothing to
do with how many cars are likely to be vying for limited pavement space
but rather with how they get to that pavement space.
> Cites for "colloquial" usage? Is that like asking for a cite for "She/he
> doesn't know sh*t from sh*nola?" Or maybe prove how many people have said in
> a cocktail lounge, "Hey, what's your sign?"
>
> I don't know. Around here we say "the 101" or "PCH" (for Pacific Coast
> Highway -which is, if I'm not mistaken (and very likely could be) is
> INTERSTATE Route 1 and merges with the 101, thus the label of "interstate"
> for that mega-freeway, as well.
I have a professional interest in differences among dialects of
American English. I'm well aware of the California style of referring
to a highway as "the 101" (where I live, we'd just say "101"), so it's
entirely possible that people in some part of the country might say
"take the interstate" when they mean "take the limited access highway",
regardless of whether said highway is part of the Interstate Highway
System; around here, we'd just say "take the highway". So my question
was about usage that you might have observed. Even though I haven't
observed such generic use of "interstate", that doesn't mean that it
doesn't exist. One possible interpretation of your previous post was
that it was based on such a usage.
Alice "the devil is in the details" Faber
--
==================I don't read crossposts==================
"That doesn't mean you can't flip it over and suddenly it works for a trip
to Schnectady. That's just bonus." RM Mentock on the New Criticism
Karen J. Cravens
AF>"take the interstate" when they mean "take the limited access highway",
AF>regardless of whether said highway is part of the Interstate Highway
AF>System; around here, we'd just say "take the highway". So my question
AF>was about usage that you might have observed. Even though I haven't
AF>observed such generic use of "interstate", that doesn't mean that it
AF>doesn't exist. One possible interpretation of your previous post was
AF>that it was based on such a usage.
"Highway," to me, implies anything from a two-lane on up (so long as it's
between towns), while "interstate" is something like I-35 (which is an
Interstate) or 412 between I-35 and Tulsa (which isn't)... four-lane at
least, divided, limited access, etc. etc.
This may come from growing up too near I-70, which was always The
Interstate. But I'm pretty sure I've heard people refer to US54 (which
varies back and forth between some nice six-lane 60mph down to
stop-light-and-40mph as it passes through town) as "the interstate," as
well as I-235, which is a half-loop around town. The former actually goes
somewhere (it's part of the primary east-west route through southern
Kansas), where the latter doesn't, so the latter seems less an interstate
even though it's an Interstate...
I'll have to watch for this.
--
Karen J. Cravens sil...@phoenyx.net
Joseph Yuska
>
> Joseph Yuska <jyu...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> news:39398FD4...@mediaone.net...
<snip>
> > I thought Interstate was reserved for the Eisenhower highways, you know,
> > the ones he had built big enough to land airplanes on.
> >
> > Joe Yuska
>
> We've had a few of those, too. But as to the term "interstate," I believe
> what Citizen McCaffertA was referring to is that only certain highways and
> byways have the official designation of "Interstate," while those other
> routes that still manage to cross state lines (thus qualifying, I believe,
> for the title of "interstate" without the capital letter) are also referred
> to by many with the same term.
>
> Hey, if you're goin' to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your
> hair...
>
> Patricia Holtby
If you check my post on the other thread, I'm well aware of that. I've
been away a few months, and I didn't follow the usual rule of checking
other threads before attempting an innocent troll. Can you privide
citations for the colloquial use of "interstate" as Alice asks in her
followup?
Joe Yuska
Patricia Holtby
Alice Faber <fab...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:030620001951454715%fab...@rcn.com...
> In article <R3g_4.1882$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > McCaffertA <mccaf...@aol.comment> wrote in message
> > news:20000603182000...@nso-cc.aol.com...
> > > In article <YYe_4.1816$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > > "Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > > >there.
> > >
> > > Note "101". Note "Interstate". Note dissonance. Slap head. Say
> > > "duh".
> >
>
> think so, based on its number. I have no doubt that it's a limited
> access divided highway, and that people drive on it the same way they
> drive on limited access divided highways that *are* part of the
> Interstate Highway System. I can think of at least five such highways
> here in Connecticut (ObCharles: 2, 3, 8, 9, 15). But these highways
> have different colored signs than I-95, I-91, I-84, I-384, and the
> other Interstate Highways in Connecticut (some of which don't cross a
> state line, but that's another story), and, further, they are not
> necessarily designed to the same engineering standards as were used for
> the Interstates. At least two of them have traffic lights.
>
> Now, if you want to say "interstate" has gone generic in California, in
> the same way "coke" has in much of the south and southwestern US and
> "kleenex" has throughout the US, I'd be interested in some citations of
> actual usage.
>
>
> --
> ==================I don't read crossposts==================
> Dan Evans, who is not my lawyer
I don't doubt one single word you said. I only have a small observation to
contribute. Get on the aforementioned 101 (or 5 or 405) at rush hour here in
Los Angeles and I don't think you will ever refer to it again as
"limited-access." Limited-forward-motion? A resounding yes. Limited access?
I only wish.
Cites for "colloquial" usage? Is that like asking for a cite for "She/he
doesn't know sh*t from sh*nola?" Or maybe prove how many people have said in
a cocktail lounge, "Hey, what's your sign?"
I don't know. Around here we say "the 101" or "PCH" (for Pacific Coast
Highway -which is, if I'm not mistaken (and very likely could be) is
INTERSTATE Route 1 and merges with the 101, thus the label of "interstate"
for that mega-freeway, as well.
I love the way you all go for the details. This place is fun. I like AFU.
Patricia Holtby
Patricia Holtby
> In article <Mzi_4.2028$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snipped>
> I have a professional interest in differences among dialects of
> American English. I'm well aware of the California style of referring
> to a highway as "the 101" (where I live, we'd just say "101"), so it's
> entirely possible that people in some part of the country might say
> "take the interstate" when they mean "take the limited access highway",
> regardless of whether said highway is part of the Interstate Highway
> System; around here, we'd just say "take the highway". So my question
> was about usage that you might have observed. Even though I haven't
> observed such generic use of "interstate", that doesn't mean that it
> doesn't exist. One possible interpretation of your previous post was
> that it was based on such a usage.
>
> Alice "the devil is in the details" Faber
>
> --
> ==================I don't read crossposts==================
> "That doesn't mean you can't flip it over and suddenly it works for a
trip
> to Schnectady. That's just bonus." RM Mentock on the New Criticism
> ***** Check out the goodies at http://www.urbanlegends.com *****
Okay, I get it now. Sorry if I wasn't helpful. At least in my area of
southern California, I have observed that casual abuse of the English
language is the norm. At the risk of sounding elitist, I'll even say
well-educated young people brought up in middle-class and upper-class
environments still favor affected street slang and sloppy grammar.
Shorthand, slang, dropping sounds, combining with other sounds....we're a
mess out here. And we do have a very casual way of attaching labels to
things then referring evermore to something with that label. I'm trying to
think up a good example and nothing really fits for your purposes. This is
entirely too local to be of general interest, but where two major shopping
malls now stand in my neighborhood, that area is still referred to as
"Morrison Ranch" for the old ranch spread that used to be there and the
ranch owner by the same name. I couldn't even tell you the actual names of
the shopping malls.
Patricia Holtby
Opus the Penguin
>Dammit, I forgot the footnotes.
>
>[1] Southeastern Virginia
>[2] US 17
>[3] US 58
I just figured they were endnotes and whenever you decided to leave AFU for
good, your final message would contain all the references.[93]
--
Opus the Penguin
McCaffertA
"Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>> >But the best is driving the 101 through Santa Barbara. Left lane offramps
>> >and all. They even have stoplights and cross-traffic on the interstate
>> >there.
>>
>> Note "101". Note "Interstate". Note dissonance. Slap head. Say
>"duh".
>
>Heh. In order to make the slap to have the proper sting, you will have to
>make me understand it.
>
>"101" is the term we use here to refer to that particular freeway.
Yes....
>I used "interstate" because for me, as well as many persons in California, it
is
>the preferred route north (as opposed to using the "5") and will take you
>where you want to go. Even to that next state up north (after converging
>with other routes), let me see...what is it's name...darn, and they have a
>big lake too with real blue water...geez, if I could only think of its
>name....
Lemme guess...you wanna stop the intramural sports at your kid's school,
because the place isn't walled?
The 101 is a US Highway. It is not an "interstate". US Highways can be
built in a single state, although I dunno ofhand if any, except defense spurs,
were. It is not a "freeway". Freeways have controlled access. It's a US
Highway. Most of them are far -more- chaotic than the 101. The PCH is a
California state highway. It isn't an interstate either. It ain't a freeway,
either.
>
McCaffertA
<opusthe...@micronet.net> writes:
Your momma is calling you in AFCA, Bill...or it might be your daddy,
George. Go see what they want. Come back soon.
Anthony "soon in geologic terms, that is" McCafferty
Patricia Holtby
McCaffertA <mccaf...@aol.comment> wrote in message
the 101 is the "Ventura Freeway." And you say now it was never a freeway?
Millions of Angelenos have been duped! The freeway that's not really a
freeway. Sounds like an UL-in-the-making to me.
Actually, I hate getting on it. Whatever its proper definition is. And PCH
DOES merge with the Ventura (101) FREEWAY, so for a span there it is also a
freeway....er, whatever-it's-supposed-to-be-called.
Patricia Holtby
McCaffertA
"Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>> The 101 is a US Highway. It is not an "interstate". US Highways can
>>be built in a single state, although I dunno ofhand if any, except defense
>>spurs, were. It is not a "freeway". Freeways have controlled access. It's
a US
>> Highway. Most of them are far -more- chaotic than the 101. The PCH is a
>> California state highway. It isn't an interstate either. It ain't a
freeway,
>> either.
>Golly. We have a lot of silly people here, then.
...et ne nos inducas in temptatione, sed libera nos a malo.
> Because the other name for the 101 is the "Ventura Freeway."
No. The other name for a very small, teeeny-tiny, itsy-effing-bitsy chunk
of the 101 is the Ventura Freeway. The One-O-One Is A Very Big Place.
Depending on where exactly you live in the LA area, you might even be farther
away from it than I am up in the wilds of Betty MacDonald country.
> And you say now it was never a freeway?
No, most of it never was, and still isn't, and most of it isn't called any
kind of freeway, as you'd learn if you followed it all the way north, to that
state with the big lake in it, wherever that may be. A little north of San
Francisco, the thing turns into a miniature simulacrum of the Pacific Coast
Highway along the Ventura coast...which is to say a glorified driveway between
bypassed motels and half-crumbled fishing towns.
>Millions of Angelenos have been duped!
I'm gonna let this res loquitate for its own damn ipsa.
Anthony "freeway-gryway" McCafferty
Patricia Holtby
McCaffertA <mccaf...@aol.comment> wrote in message
Ssshhhh.....just don't tell anybody around here it's not really a freeway.
Egads, somebody might drop their cel phone and cause a traffic accident!
Patricia Holtby
Ned Holbrook
<fab...@rcn.com> wrote:
> I have a professional interest in differences among dialects of
> American English. I'm well aware of the California style of referring
> to a highway as "the 101" (where I live, we'd just say "101"), so it's
> entirely possible that people in some part of the country might say
> "take the interstate" when they mean "take the limited access highway",
> regardless of whether said highway is part of the Interstate Highway
> System; around here, we'd just say "take the highway". So my question
> was about usage that you might have observed. Even though I haven't
> observed such generic use of "interstate", that doesn't mean that it
> doesn't exist. One possible interpretation of your previous post was
> that it was based on such a usage.
As a resident of northern California, I can safely say that the use of a
definite article when referring to roads is strictly limited to a)
southern California residents and b) Candians[1]. For instance, on the
peninsula we take either 280 or 101, but definitely _not_ the 280 or the
101.
On a related note, my parents live in the midwest, where they have
highways and Interstates, but not freeways.
[1]: Or maybe just Ottowans; I'm still investigating this phenomenon.
--
Ned Holbrook http://web.dartmouth.edu/~holbrook/ n...@mac.com
* The Electric Mayhem World Tour '96 *** The Electric Mayhem World Tour '96 *
Bob Ternes
#In article <030620002208536647%fab...@rcn.com>, Alice Faber
#<fab...@rcn.com> wrote:
#
#> I have a professional interest in differences among dialects of
#> American English. I'm well aware of the California style of referring
#> to a highway as "the 101" (where I live, we'd just say "101"), so it's
#> entirely possible that people in some part of the country might say
#> "take the interstate" when they mean "take the limited access highway",
#> regardless of whether said highway is part of the Interstate Highway
#> System; around here, we'd just say "take the highway". So my question
#> was about usage that you might have observed. Even though I haven't
#> observed such generic use of "interstate", that doesn't mean that it
#> doesn't exist. One possible interpretation of your previous post was
#> that it was based on such a usage.
#
#As a resident of northern California, I can safely say that the use of a
#definite article when referring to roads is strictly limited to a)
#southern California residents and b) Candians[1]. For instance, on the
#peninsula we take either 280 or 101, but definitely _not_ the 280 or the
#101.
#
#On a related note, my parents live in the midwest, where they have
#highways and Interstates, but not freeways.
#
#[1]: Or maybe just Ottowans; I'm still investigating this phenomenon.
Well, when I'm in Phoenix, I take I-10 to the 101 to see my folks.
Bob 'Definitely' Ternes
rte...@u.arizona.edu
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> I would further suggest the title of "Interstate" would apply only to
> Interstates, while the description of "interstate" would apply only to
> Interstates and U.S. routes.
Then there is the curious example of Connecticut State
Highway 10 [_not_ a US highway] which becomes Massachusetts
Highway 10 which becomes New Hampshire Highway 10, also
known as the College Highway because Yale is at one end
[well, almost; it used to be, but they moved the south
end of the highway many years ago] and Dartmouth is at
the other end [give or take a few miles].
By the way, where is US10? [not I-10, I know that one].
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Lee Rudolph
>Then there is the curious example of Connecticut State
>Highway 10 [_not_ a US highway] which becomes Massachusetts
>Highway 10 which becomes New Hampshire Highway 10, also
>known as the College Highway because Yale is at one end
>[well, almost; it used to be, but they moved the south
>end of the highway many years ago] and Dartmouth is at
>the other end [give or take a few miles].
Yes, I was quite shocked to find, when I settled in New England
proper after my upbringing in the Western Reserve of Connecticut,
any number of state highways hereabouts that keep the same number
as they cross state borders. Another tri-state example is 138,
which traces an extraordinary hook-shaped trajectory from
Nowheresville^WBaltic CT across Rhode Island (via three bridges)
and then up through Massachusetts to mute inglorious Milton.
Lee Rudolph
Don Middendorf
>
> On Sat, 3 Jun 2000, Alice Faber wrote:
>
> AF>regardless of whether said highway is part of the Interstate Highway
> AF>System; around here, we'd just say "take the highway". So my question
> "Highway," to me, implies anything from a two-lane on up (so long as it's
> between towns), while "interstate" is something like I-35 (which is an
> Interstate) or 412 between I-35 and Tulsa (which isn't)... four-lane at
> least, divided, limited access, etc. etc.
> --
> Karen J. Cravens sil...@phoenyx.net
As a data point. In Southern Indiana, the term Interstate is used to
describe only the interstate highways, Highway is used to describe large
roads, with numbers, that are maintained by the state, and freeway is on
rare enough occasions used to describe the interstate. However when
referring to the actual roads in question the number is used almost
exclusively, without an indefinite article [1], one simply says "get on
74 until you get to 465, then take 65 on up to Chicago" etc.
Highway is also used to refer to the US highways, such as US50 or
US421, which in practice are no different than state highways. (Although
they go from state to state, and I'm sure there's something federal
about their funding or they wouldn't be US highways now would they?)
Don Middendorf
1: that's correct, isn't it?
H Gilmer
> As a resident of northern California, I can safely say that the use of a
> definite article when referring to roads is strictly limited to a)
> southern California residents and b) Candians[1]. For instance, on the
> peninsula we take either 280 or 101, but definitely _not_ the 280 or the
> 101.
and c) at least one person in Buffalo, NY. I should ask her if she
moved from California.
Do you consider the Bay Area to be So. Cal.?
Hg
Steve Smith
>
> New {to me) variation on an old theme.
> Most of us are familiar with the stories of the
> engineers/architects who have made a stupendous
> mistake in building design and have subsequently
> committed suicide. But my wife has garnered a
> new variation from a friend, no details available.
> The general gist is that a highway engineer has
> designed an interstate highway which has a
> left-hand exit. After a number of years there
> have been a significant number of fatalities as
> a result of this particular exit design. So he
> commits suicide.
>
> No details as to which highway, which exit,
> which engineer. There certainly are a large
> number of such exits to choose from, particularly
> here in Connecticut, where I take a left-hand
> exit on the way to work and another on the way
> home.
>
> Charles Wm. Dimmick
The subject of left-hand exits crops up from time to time on the driving
and urban design newsgroups. Basically, it divides up into a flame war
between the highway engineers ("it says right here in the design manual
....") and the guys who think that they have a God-given right to drive
120 mph in the left hand lane any time they want.
If a highway engineer designs something in accordance with "the book",
it's OK. Full stop. Disengage brain. Accidents on a road designed in
accordance with "the book" are, of course, all due to driver error.
Could have happened, of course. All sorts of people commit suicide, and
other people think up reasons.
-- Steve "except in UKoGBaNI" Smith
--
Steve Smith s...@aginc.net
Agincourt Computing http://www.aginc.net
"Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense."
Olivers
>
>
> Hey, if you're goin' to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your
> hair...
>
Highway 1 far away along the Blue 'lantic) comes in many shapes and
descritions from two lane to multi-laned limited access freeway. At no
point is it an Interrstate, that cognomen reserved for a special group
of hiways so designated.
Some Calfornianos, especially Fernandinans, get confused over all those
wide road choices. It can usually be cured by a dose of Epsom salts and
laying off sprouts for a month or two.
--
TMOliver - el pelon sinverguenza
"Alle kunst ist unsonst,
wenn ein Engel in das Kundloch prunst."
Susan Carroll-Clark
>> As a resident of northern California, I can safely say that the use of a
>> definite article when referring to roads is strictly limited to a)
>> southern California residents and b) Candians[1]. For instance, on the
>> peninsula we take either 280 or 101, but definitely _not_ the 280 or the
>> 101.
That's scary, and very true, at least for Canadians, although in Ontario it
seems to be limited to the 400-system highways. (In other words, I would
take the 401 or the 403, but not "the 7" or "the 48"; those are referred to
as "Highway 7" or "Highway 48")
However, US I-series highways are sometimes referred to as "the I-90" or
"the I-75", but not "the 90" or "the 75".
>and c) at least one person in Buffalo, NY. I should ask her if she
>moved from California.
Buffalo's pretty close to Canada--close enough to have Swiss Chalet and Tim
Horton's (before Timmy's was acquired by Wendy's and started appearing
elsewhere in the US). I'd guess she might have picked it up from that
direction.
Susan "sort of like linguistic e-coli" Carroll-Clark
Ned Holbrook
> and c) at least one person in Buffalo, NY. I should ask her if she
> moved from California.
It could only have been from southern California, then.
> Do you consider the Bay Area to be So. Cal.?
I'll ask some friends of mine who have lived here since time immemorial
for verification, but I'm pretty sure that the Bay Area is not
considered to be part of southern California. By Bay Area residents,
anyway.
There is a contingency of people who consider the Bay Area to be part of
southern California, but nobody pays any attention to them. They tend to
push the boundary between No- and SoCal north about 50 miles every year
in hopes of retaining a modicum of exclusivity. Clowns.
danny burstein
>The subject of left-hand exits crops up from time to time on the driving
>and urban design newsgroups. Basically, it divides up into a flame war
>between the highway engineers ("it says right here in the design manual
>....") and the guys who think that they have a God-given right to drive
>120 mph in the left hand lane any time they want.
Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
is left hand _entrances_.
danny 'in NYC, highway speed is measured in single digits' burstein
[1] twiavbp: we're talking the USofA and other right-thinking parts fo the
globe where people drive on the right side of the road. If you're in other
parts, then do the switcheroo.
[2] always wondered why most folk use the term "handed" when referring to
these things...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Stephan in Burlington
<n...@mac.com> wrote:
>As a resident of northern California, I can safely say that the use of a
>definite article when referring to roads is strictly limited to a)
>southern California residents and b) Candians[1]. For instance, on the
[...]
>
>[1]: Or maybe just Ottowans; I'm still investigating this phenomenon.
In usage in Ontario in general. When refering to Ontario's Limited
Access Highways (the 400-series), the number is always preceeded by
_the_, as in the 401 [1], the 407, etc. Also in use for named
highways, such as Queen Elizabeth Way (which connects Toronto with
Niagara Falls, which is referred to as _the QEW_. Other provincial
highways are just called _Highway <insert number here>_.
[1] The 401 is also named _The Macdonald-Cartier Freeway_, but the
only person I have ever encountered to call it that was my mother's
late Uncle Max from Windsor.
--
Stephan in Burlington
Stephan in Burlington
Burlington <ste...@interlynx.net> wrote:
>Access Highways (the 400-series), the number is always preceeded by
^^^^^^
Damn. I should have said that in my experience, it is generally
preceeded, blah blah blah.
--
Stephan in Burlington
Steve Patlan
>> The general gist is that a highway engineer has
>> designed an interstate highway which has a
>> left-hand exit. After a number of years there
>> have been a significant number of fatalities as
>> a result of this particular exit design. So he
>> commits suicide.
In article <393AB327...@aginc.net>, Steve Smith <s...@aginc.net> wrote:
>The subject of left-hand exits crops up from time to time on the driving
>and urban design newsgroups. Basically, it divides up into a flame war
>between the highway engineers ("it says right here in the design manual
>....") and the guys who think that they have a God-given right to drive
>120 mph in the left hand lane any time they want.
Well, there are plenty of left-hand exits and even left-hand *entrances*
on Houston freeways, and none of them are particularly problematic. You
just need the proper space to slow down or speed up.
I *would* rant about the stupdity of the people who drive 120 mph in the
*right* lane, because they will be exiting, in an hour or two, and insist
that you speed up for them, but that would turn this into a driving peeves
thread, so I won't rant. SO, THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION TO START A DRIVING
PEEVES THREAD, OKAY?
Steve "We now return to your regularly-scheduled digression" Patlan
--
tex...@starbase.neosoft.com <*>
"Press any key to return to Windows and wait"
Steve Patlan
Susan Carroll-Clark <nicola...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>Greetings!
>That's scary, and very true, at least for Canadians, although in Ontario it
>seems to be limited to the 400-system highways. (In other words, I would
>take the 401 or the 403, but not "the 7" or "the 48"; those are referred to
>as "Highway 7" or "Highway 48")
>
>However, US I-series highways are sometimes referred to as "the I-90" or
>"the I-75", but not "the 90" or "the 75".
"*THE* I-90"? Ick! Who says that? That's kind of redundant, since the
"I" stands for "Interstate", you have already used some sort of qualifier
to identify it, if you are in a region where people need qualifiers. The
"extra" definitive article sounds like somebody who is not a native
English speaker (to a Texan.)
Major roads running thru/around Houston are: Interstates 45, 10 and 610,
US Highways 59 and 290, and State Highways 6, 225 and 288.
Now that I think about it, all the non-interstates, plus 610, are
typically referred to (in driving directions, not in addresses) by just
their numbers, *except* "Highway 6", and I would guess the reason is
because it is only one digit *and* only one syllable. I-45 can be talked
about with I or sans I, but 10 typcially includes the I - again, only one
syllable.
But we use "the" when using the colloquial names for the freeways. "The
Southwest Freeway" is the part of US 59 south and west of downtown. The
radio traffic reports usually use $NAME + "freeway" rather than the
numbers, where name is : Gulf, North, Southwest, Baytown, East, Katy, etc
Steve "Lives near 59" Patlan
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
> the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
> left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
> is left hand _entrances_.
We have two piperoos of left-hand exit combined with left-hand
entrance, both involving I-84 and Connecticut Route 72. The
problem which gave rise to this anomaly is that both 72 and
I-84 have to fit through the relatively narrow Cook's Gap
between Plainville and New Britain. So, going _to_ work I
need to take a left-hand exit onto Rt. 72 from I-84 at the
same spot that cars from Rt. 72 are merging right onto I-84.
Going home from work I have to take a left-hand exit from
Rt. 72 onto I-84 at the same place where cars from I-84
are trying to merge right onto Rt. 72. When choreographed
perfectly, this means you look for a person about to
merge right and move left into their spot just as they
pull right in front of you.
On some days the traffic is so bad I just don't try.
I take the right-hand exit instead, wind around a
little on a side street, and get on a right-side
entrance ramp. Better late than dead.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Drew Lawson
"Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> writes:
>By the way, where is US10? [not I-10, I know that one].
My road atlas shows it in Michigan, heading west from US 27, looking
like it disappears in Lake Michigan and then crossing Wisconsin
and Minnesota, appearing to disappear at Fargo.
Drew "get your kicks on route 10" Lawson
--
|Drew Lawson | If you're not part of the solution |
|dr...@furrfu.com | you're part of the precipitate. |
|http://www.furrfu.com/ | |
Drew Lawson
dan...@panix.com (danny burstein) writes:
>Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
>the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
>left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
>is left hand _entrances_.
I'd say that the safety concern (and the "road rage" concern) is
heavily used left-hand entrances that are closely followed by
heavily used right-hand exits.
That used to be part of my commute pattern in the Springfield, VA
"mixing bowl" -- location of a massively congested and contorted
interchange that is being "fixed" to what looks to be an even more
contorted interchange. But I've only seen diagrams.
I had a left-hand onramp to I-95 North. A mile ahead, and 4 lanes
over (maybe it was 3), was the "exit" to I-95 North (not "exiting"
put you on I-395).
Drew "how many Interstates have a drawbridge?" Lawson
HOSS
>
> Then there is the curious example of Connecticut State
> Highway 10 [_not_ a US highway] which becomes Massachusetts
> Highway 10 which becomes New Hampshire Highway 10, also
> known as the College Highway because Yale is at one end
> [well, almost; it used to be, but they moved the south
> end of the highway many years ago] and Dartmouth is at
> the other end [give or take a few miles].
Virginia is good for doing the same thing with its neighboring states.
Examples could include Virginia/NC 168, Virginia/NC 32, etc. It's quite
convenient, in my estimation.
--
Robert "convenient" Flournoy
WC for '00: 4, 7, 9, 14, 21, 22, 28, 66, 71, 90, 99
Hail to the Redskins. Fire Norv Now.
"With winter now past, I guess it's too late to hear anything
about ice worms and snow snakes. Gotta be satisfied with ass lizards."
Larry Palletti on a.f.u. noting the changing of season
HOSS
>
>
> Drew "how many Interstates have a drawbridge?" Lawson
I-64 in Chesapeake.
--
Robert "We're up to 2" Flournoy
Steve Smith
> Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
> the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
> left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
> is left hand _entrances_.
Actually, they're different sides of the same problem. If the ramps are
designed properly, they will have sufficient acceleration/deceleration
space for traffic moving at the speed limit, which is usually 55 m/h.
Unfortunately, traffic in the LH lane may be moving at 80+ m/h.
I'm surprised that there aren't a *lot* more accidents at those ramps.
Maybe slowing to a reasonable speed for the ramp and having the guy in
the SUV behind you slam on his brakes, lean on his horn, and come up
three feet behind you as you turn off isn't as unsafe as it feels.
Mark W. Schumann
I'm not sure of the number, but I believe one is at I-275 between the
Ohio Turnpike and I-75, somewhere within Michigan.
Marc Reeve
>
> Ned Holbrook <n...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > As a resident of northern California, I can safely say that the use of a
> > definite article when referring to roads is strictly limited to a)
> > southern California residents and b) Candians[1]. For instance, on the
> > 101.
>
> moved from California.
>
>
The Bay Area is *not* So. Cal.
As a naming convention, "Southern California" usually refers to anything south
of San Luis Obispo, which is 160 road miles south of where I now sit, in Santa
Cruz. Santa Cruz, in its turn, is a bit south of that is normally
considered the
"Bay Area" (72 road miles south of San Francisco).
The Bay Area claims to be part of Northern California, but is really
part of
Central California. When teams from the Bay Area go to state athletic
championships, they go as part of the "Central Coast Section." CCS runs from
San Luis Obispo to Sonoma County, if I recall correctly.
Or, if you want to divide the state by water rights, Northern California
is where
the water comes from, and Southern California is the drain into which it all
swirls. (Clockwise, of course.)
Marc "let the desert reclaim L. A., I say" Reeve
--
Marc Reeve cmr...@armory.com
Too tired to think
Susan Carroll-Clark
Steve Patlan wrote in message
<7857C66D366B1222.35E1E269...@lp.airnews.net>...
>"*THE* I-90"? Ick! Who says that? That's kind of redundant, since the
>"I" stands for "Interstate", you have already used some sort of qualifier
>to identify it, if you are in a region where people need qualifiers. The
>"extra" definitive article sounds like somebody who is not a native
>English speaker (to a Texan.)
It seems to me to be regional usage. I don't hear it much here in Columbus
(where we talk about 70, 71, 270, 23, 33, and 315; only the first three are
interstates), but I have heard it north of here (Cleveland area and up along
Lake Erie towards Buffalo, which makes me wonder whether the woman mentioned
earlier might not be part of a larger trend).
Susan "must be the Lake Erie water" Carroll-Clark
H Gilmer
> Now that I think about it, all the non-interstates, plus 610, are
> typically referred to (in driving directions, not in addresses) by just
> their numbers, *except* "Highway 6", and I would guess the reason is
> because it is only one digit *and* only one syllable. I-45 can be talked
> about with I or sans I, but 10 typcially includes the I - again, only one
> syllable.
Not IH-45, etc.? That's what they call 'em in Austin.
Hg
Dave Wilton
>Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
>the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
>left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
>is left hand _entrances_.
Left-hand exits aren't especially dangerous, but they are disruptive
to the traffic flow. You have cars travelling at 55-60 mph (or slower)
from the right-hand lanes attempting to merge with traffic going 75-85
mph in the left hand lanes, forcing the faster cars to decelerate
while still in the passing lane. This is the stuff that starts traffic
jams.
I know of only one left-hand exit on the German autobahn system. It is
(was?) near Fulda. In my army days we used that exit a lot. It was
terrifying to merge your convoy travelling at 15-30 mph into traffic
going 120-150 mph. I saw many a Porsche almost spin out of control
attempting to miss my 15-ton tracked APC.
And of course, left-hand entrances are worse.
Worst of all are junctions that have entrances on both sides followed
by exits on both sides, forcing entering traffic to cross all lanes in
a short distance before taking the exit. I'm all for drum-head courts
martial and summary executions for any engineers that design such
abominations.
--Dave Wilton
da...@wilton.net
http://www.wilton.net
Opus the Penguin
>I'll ask some friends of mine who have lived here since time immemorial
>for verification, but I'm pretty sure that the Bay Area is not
>considered to be part of southern California. By Bay Area residents,
>anyway.
This Southern Californian has always been told that the Bay Area is part of
Northern California, both by people from here and people from there.
Southern California extends from San Diego to Santa Barbara, or at the most
San Luis Obispo. And it's coastal. If you're more than 10 miles east of the
5 (or of the 15 in San Diego County) you're not really in Southern
California. Unless you're in Palm Springs. I don't make these things up; I
just report them.
--
Opus the Penguin (And even farther north in California is Baja Oregon)
C. Ancona
"danny burstein" <dan...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:8hees7$7ir$1...@panix3.panix.com...
<snip>
> Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
> the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
> left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
> is left hand _entrances_.
I have never heard the designer/suicide angle before, but some places have
left exit rest stops, where traffic exits and reenters the highway in the
left lane. I grew up near one beast like this, complete with a gas station,
on I-95 at the Maryland-Delaware state line. It was *common knowledge* that
it was a deathtrap design, causing elderly/confused/inattentive drivers to
reenter the highway going the wrong direction and resulting in numerous
nasty head-on collisions.
Caeli "did Andrea ever get the tattoo?" Ancona
Charles Bishop
<fab...@rcn.com> wrote:
>In article <Mzi_4.2028$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> I don't doubt one single word you said. I only have a small observation to
>> contribute. Get on the aforementioned 101 (or 5 or 405) at rush hour here in
>> Los Angeles and I don't think you will ever refer to it again as
>> "limited-access." Limited-forward-motion? A resounding yes. Limited access?
>> I only wish.
>
>Well, sure. You could say the same for just about any highway used by
>commuters in a major metropolitan area. But, like "Interstate",
>"limited access" has a precise meaning for highways; it has nothing to
>do with how many cars are likely to be vying for limited pavement space
>but rather with how they get to that pavement space.
Since we've mentioned the 101 (that's what I say) and limited access, the
101 has peculiar sinage on stretches between San Francisco and LA. Out in
the wilds, there will be sections where a sign "End Freeway" will appear
just before a "crossing". Here cars can enter or *cross* the highway
without the normal ramps. Immediately afterwards, there is "Begin
Freeway". I'm assuming that there is some "legal" reason for the signs
since they aren't useful enough to be warning signs. Don't know what it is
though.
[snipp]
Charles, averages 70 mph, Bishop
Charles Bishop
>
>Patricia Holtby
Welcome[1] and glad to have ya. Could you trim previous material in your
posts if you aren't replying to it? A small thing I know, but it saves
having to scroll past a page of previously read stuff to get to your
stuff.
[1] I'm not on the official welcoming committee
Charles, but welcome anyway, Bishop
Charles Bishop
"Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
>>
>Golly. We have a lot of silly people here, then. Because the other name for
>the 101 is the "Ventura Freeway." And you say now it was never a freeway?
>Millions of Angelenos have been duped! The freeway that's not really a
>freeway. Sounds like an UL-in-the-making to me.
>
>Actually, I hate getting on it. Whatever its proper definition is. And PCH
>DOES merge with the Ventura (101) FREEWAY, so for a span there it is also a
>freeway....er, whatever-it's-supposed-to-be-called.
It meets only in Oxnard, as far as I know. Is Pacific Coast Highway still
called that there?
Charles, lot of the PCH in The Rockford Files, Bishop
Opus the Penguin
Patricia Holtby
--
HEAR ME>> http://pagoo.com/signature/pholtby
Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ctbishop-040...@pool1028.cvx19-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net..
.
> In article <9Gl_4.2128$vc5.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snipped my own stuff out>
It meets only in Oxnard, as far as I know. Is Pacific Coast Highway still
> called that there?
>
>
> Charles, lot of the PCH in The Rockford Files, Bishop
Well, once you leave Ventura on your way to Santa Barbara, you are on one
big freeway all the way -- having the names "the 101," "the Ventura
Freeway," and "PCH" all at the same time because the two highways have
merged into one at that point. I don't recall where they separate again or
if they join up again after that. I'm sure somebody here will furnish that
detail.
Patricia Holtby
Fritz Milhaupt
I-280 across the Maumee River just north of downtown Toledo, actually.
That specific I-280 is entirely within Ohio.
-f "but not by an awful lot" m
Mark W. Schumann
TheCentralSc...@pobox.com
>New {to me) variation on an old theme.
>Most of us are familiar with the stories of the
>engineers/architects who have made a stupendous
>mistake in building design and have subsequently
>committed suicide. But my wife has garnered a
Somewhat related: considered to be the worst movie of all time, "manos,
the hands of fate" had three of it's cast members commit suicide the year
the movie was released and nobody was ever in a movie again.
TheCentralSc...@pobox.com
>danny burstein wrote:
>
>> Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
>> the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
>> left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
>> is left hand _entrances_.
>
>entrance, both involving I-84 and Connecticut Route 72. The
>problem which gave rise to this anomaly is that both 72 and
>I-84 have to fit through the relatively narrow Cook's Gap
>between Plainville and New Britain. So, going _to_ work I
>need to take a left-hand exit onto Rt. 72 from I-84 at the
Connecticut has some of the worst designed highways on the planet. Lanes
added on the right with exits on the left and no thru lanes. Stay in the
right lane and pretty soon it has become the left lane and off onto an
exit you go.
CT doesn't have any major amusement parks. It doesn't need them with the
spine tingling sense of terror of it's highways.
Andrew Reid
>
> Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
> the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
> left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
> is left hand _entrances_.
>
The most frightening left-hand entrances I've ever experienced
are on the northbound I-90/94 as it goes through downtown Chicago.
There's a set of four or five of them, spaced two blocks apart,
with no room at all for an accelleration lane. Furthermore,
the freeway is in a trench, so there are also high concrete walls,
It's a big surprise for everybody when a car makes a sudden
appearance in the fast lane.
I mostly avoid these, and only take them on in
low-traffic times. This might actually be the most exciting
time, since freeway traffic is flowing pretty freely. My
guess would be that during rush hour, (a) traffic is much
tighter and slower generally, and (b) the majority of the
traffic is entering the freeway there, and there's relatively
little traffic already on it.
Andrew "<screeeeech!> BEEP!" Reid
[1][2] See previous post for footnotes.
Jerry Bauer
>big freeway all the way -- having the names "the 101," "the Ventura
>Freeway," and "PCH" all at the same time because the two highways have
>merged into one at that point. I don't recall where they separate again or
>if they join up again after that. I'm sure somebody here will furnish that
>detail.
>
As one proceeds north on "the 101" there comes a place where it loses
the article, becoming "101".
In much of the north-of-the-Techapis[1] California, numbered highways
are referenced without the article. In particular, in the San
Francisco Bay area of California the article is not used with numbered
roads. "Take 101 to Redwood City and exit at ...". "Take 580 to 505
to 5 up to Redding[2]".
Named freeways may have an article -- "The Nimitz", or maybe not --
"Bayshore". "Take the Nimitz through Oakland." "Take Bayshore to
Candlestick." Never "Take Nimitz through Oakland.", but maybe "Take
the Bayshore to Candlestick."
The names of expressways (multi-lane thoroughfares, with stoplights)
are similar. We usually leave off the article -- "Lawrence
Expressway", "Montague Expressway". "Take Montague Expressway south
and it becomes San Tomas Expressway". "Take Lawrence to Benton".
Local usage with respect to road names seem to be adopted quickly.
The use of an regionally inappropriate article in a road name is a
language marker of an immigrant to the area.
The Jerry Randal Bauer
[1] Mountains that separate the central valley from the L.A. basin.
[2] Used to be "Reading"; they officially changed the spelling to
reflect common pronunciation.
Anny Middon
>Left Hand _exits_ [1] [2], if properly designed (so as to let you exit off
>the main road at near highway speed, making the deceleration after you've
>left the traffic flow) aren't much of a problem. The real safety concern
>is left hand _entrances_.
Here in the Chicago area, we have some of the oldest Interstates in the
country. When the Eisenhower Expressway (later designated Interstate 290)
was put in, entrances and exits were put in much closer than on newer
freeways -- for example, at 25th, 17th, 9th, 1st; since these are "short
blocks" the exits are something like 3/4 mile apart.
The exception to the "put entrances/exits really close together" are the
left-hand entrances and exits at Harlem and Austin. The story I heard,
possible UL, is that Oak Park, a suburb that borders on Austin and a little
west of Harlem, didn't want any exits. The rationale supposedly was that
they were afraid the new expressway would bring the riff-raff in. Since the
land the expressway is on was no longer part of the suburb, by putting the
entrances/exit on the left the designers avoided exits and entrances within
Oak Park. (Harlem and Austin are both state roads, by the way.)
Anny "Obviously not referring to the stretch of 290 beyond the 294 exit,
formerly known as the 290 Extension" Middon
Jerry Bauer
Jerry Bauer <ba...@shell3.ba.best.com> misspelled: "Tehachapis"
gr...@apple2.com.invalid
<slrn8jnffk.c29.TheCe...@localhost.localdomain>,
TheCentralSc...@pobox.com wrote:
> Somewhat related: considered to be the worst movie of all time,
> "manos, the hands of fate" had three of it's cast members commit
> suicide the year the movie was released and nobody was ever in a
> movie again
Last movie I saw had people in it. (Unfortunately it was Battlefield
Earth.)
BTW, those weren't Torgo's knees. They weren't his thighs either.
--
__ _____________ __
\ \_\ \__ __/ /_/ / <http://www.war-of-the-worlds.org/>
.\ __ \ | | / __ /----------------------------------------------------
^ \_\ \_\|_|/_/ /_/ Don't mail me, I'll mail you.
David Lesher
>Interstate highways have requirements
>for limited access, lack of stoplights, etc.
Note that I-95/I-495 aka The DC Beltway has stoplights, at the VA/MD
border.
They turn red before the bridge goes up, to reduce the pollution
from cars driving into the Potomac.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Andrew Duncan
> But the best is driving the 101 through Santa Barbara. Left
> lane offramps and all. They even have stoplights and cross-traffic
> on the interstate there.
Not any more. At least, the stoplights (one word?) are gone now. There's
one left-lane offramp (again with the one word...English for German's
sake?) southbound into Montecito, I think; any others have also been
removed.
But the king of all left-lane exits is still the Harbor Fwy southbound
through LA. Chinatown by mistake, anyone?
Patricia Holtby
Andrew Reid <re...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
news:393BBB1D...@nwu.edu...
> danny burstein wrote:
<snip>
> The most frightening left-hand entrances I've ever experienced
> are on the northbound I-90/94 as it goes through downtown Chicago.
> There's a set of four or five of them, spaced two blocks apart,
> with no room at all for an accelleration lane. Furthermore,
> the freeway is in a trench, so there are also high concrete walls,
> It's a big surprise for everybody when a car makes a sudden
> appearance in the fast lane.
>
<snip>
> Andrew "<screeeeech!> BEEP!" Reid
>
> [1][2] See previous post for footnotes.
Speaking of frightening, on our way to our Grandma's Indiana farm, we were
trying to stop for the night in Peoria. Every offramp we tried to take, took
us onto yet another stretch of freeway (whatever the proper name for it is).
We couldn't EXIT!!!! Very scary to a lost traveller. After some aimless
wandering, we finally made it to an Imperial 400 Motel. No offense, Peoria,
but if I never have to drive your freeways again, that's okay with me.
Patricia Holtby
John Lupton
>New {to me) variation on an old theme.
>Most of us are familiar with the stories of the
>engineers/architects who have made a stupendous
>mistake in building design and have subsequently
>committed suicide. But my wife has garnered a
>The general gist is that a highway engineer has
>designed an interstate highway which has a
>left-hand exit. After a number of years there
>have been a significant number of fatalities as
>a result of this particular exit design. So he
>commits suicide.
>
>No details as to which highway, which exit,
>which engineer. There certainly are a large
>number of such exits to choose from, particularly
>here in Connecticut, where I take a left-hand
>exit on the way to work and another on the way
>home.
Although some of them were eliminated when the road was rebuilt a few years
ago, the Schuylkill Expressway in Philadelphia (which is designated I-76) has
been famous for decades for having some on- and off-ramps on the left. One
particularly dangerous one was the ramp that fed the southbound Vine Street
Expressway into the eastbound Schuylkill near 30th St. Station. Before they
re-engineered it, a driver entering would have to look nearly blind over the
right shoulder for oncoming traffic, accelerate up to speed in about 200 feet,
then have about 30 feet to jump into the flow before running out of ramp -
all of this with a high concrete wall on the left. It's still not easy, but
better than it was. South St. (both ways), 28th St. and a few other left-hand
ramps remain.
**********************************************
John Lupton, Network Services Manager
School of Arts & Sciences Computing
University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia PA
**********************************************
jlu...@sas.upenn.edu
Dan Drake
>...
> > I don't know. Around here we say "the 101" or "PCH" (for Pacific Coast
> > Highway -which is, if I'm not mistaken (and very likely could be) is
> > INTERSTATE Route 1 and merges with the 101, thus the label of "interstate"
> > for that mega-freeway, as well.
>
> I have a professional interest in differences among dialects of
> American English. I'm well aware of the California style of referring
> to a highway as "the 101"
Datum for your studies: No one in Northern California says "the 101".
That statement must be false, obviously, but I've never once heard the
usage as part of the regional dialect. Particularly in Marin, where life
revolves around 101.
--
Dan "They do, of course, say The El Camino" Drake
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
Phil Edwards
Patlan) wrote:
>Major roads running thru/around Houston are: Interstates 45, 10 and 610,
>US Highways 59 and 290, and State Highways 6, 225 and 288.
>
>Now that I think about it, all the non-interstates, plus 610, are
>typically referred to (in driving directions, not in addresses) by just
>their numbers, *except* "Highway 6", and I would guess the reason is
>because it is only one digit *and* only one syllable. I-45 can be talked
>about with I or sans I, but 10 typcially includes the I - again, only one
>syllable.
Ever been to Shoeburyness?
Phil "TWIAVBP" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"On rare occasions I get tired of being cynical and sarcastic,
but how could I tire of being droll?" - Drew Lawson
Dan Drake
> In article <8hdq3p$irq$1...@hiram.io.com>, H Gilmer <gil...@io.com> wrote:
>
> > and c) at least one person in Buffalo, NY. I should ask her if she
> > moved from California.
>
> It could only have been from southern California, then.
>
> > Do you consider the Bay Area to be So. Cal.?
>
> I'll ask some friends of mine who have lived here since time immemorial
> for verification, but I'm pretty sure that the Bay Area is not
> considered to be part of southern California. By Bay Area residents,
> anyway.
>...
Even in Garberville they don't really call SF part of So Cal.
--
Dan "Dunno about Cresecnt City, though" Drake
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
Allen Abel
"Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:eNT_4.165$fy....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Speaking of frightening, on our way to our Grandma's Indiana farm, we were
> trying to stop for the night in Peoria. Every offramp we tried to take,
took
> us onto yet another stretch of freeway (whatever the proper name for it
is).
> We couldn't EXIT!!!! Very scary to a lost traveller. After some aimless
> wandering, we finally made it to an Imperial 400 Motel. No offense,
Peoria,
> but if I never have to drive your freeways again, that's okay with me.
>
but I think IDOT is still a couple of years away from moving any dirt.
The building that was the Imperial 400 has been though at least a half dozen
name changes, and has the reputation of being a hangout for prostitutes.
Allen
Lee Rudolph
That's the one where the title runs back to George III, right?
Lee "dunno where that leaves the Boston Post Road" Rudolph
Steve Patlan
>Steve Patlan <tex...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>> because it is only one digit *and* only one syllable. I-45 can be talked
>> about with I or sans I, but 10 typcially includes the I - again, only one
>> syllable.
>
If I ever hear somebody in Houston (in person, in print, on the tv or
radio) refer to I-45 or I-10 as "IH", it is so rare as to be an object of
curiosity.
Steve "Must ... stop ... posting ... to... this... thread" Patlan
--
tex...@starbase.neosoft.com
"Press any key to return to Windows and wait"
Chad Nilep
[snips]
>
> Left-hand exits aren't especially dangerous, but they are disruptive
> to the traffic flow. You have cars travelling at 55-60 mph (or slower)
> from the right-hand lanes attempting to merge with traffic going 75-85
> mph in the left hand lanes, forcing the faster cars to decelerate
> while still in the passing lane. This is the stuff that starts traffic
> jams.
>
Oh, oh, look, it's a protoform of the "flame war between the highway
engineers... and the guys who think that they have a God-given right to
drive 120 mph in the left hand lane any time they want," predicted by
Steve Smith.
Designers and engineers (probably) assume a normal speed of somewhere
around the legal speed limit, while many drivers (apparently) assume a
normal speed which is quite a bit faster (or, occasionally, slower).
The discord (and thus the flame wars) come from defense of one or the
other position as desirable.
[snip]
> Worst of all are junctions that have entrances on both sides followed
> by exits on both sides, forcing entering traffic to cross all lanes in
> a short distance before taking the exit. I'm all for drum-head courts
> martial and summary executions for any engineers that design such
> abominations.
>
> --Dave Wilton
Chad "see the protoflame" Nilep
-------------
If the display of my name has changed, it's not because I have anything
to hide. My reader has crashed.
Patricia Holtby
Allen Abel <ala...@dpc.net> wrote in message
news:8hhc71$579$1...@news.dpc.net...
>
<snip>
> There are plans in the works to upgrade I-74 through downtown Peoria,
> but I think IDOT is still a couple of years away from moving any dirt.
> The building that was the Imperial 400 has been though at least a half
dozen
> name changes, and has the reputation of being a hangout for prostitutes.
>
> Allen
>
Er, would now be a good time to mention this all happened about 1965?
Patricia Holtby
Joseph T. Adams
: In article <393ae18b$0$29...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
: Drew Lawson <dr...@furrfu.com> wrote:
:>Drew "how many Interstates have a drawbridge?" Lawson
: I'm not sure of the number, but I believe one is at I-275 between the
: Ohio Turnpike and I-75, somewhere within Michigan.
Not 100% sure but I think that's I-280 near downtown Toledo.
Joe
Estron
> Around here we say "the 101" or "PCH" (for Pacific Coast Highway -which
> is, if I'm not mistaken (and very likely could be) is INTERSTATE Route
> 1 and merges with the 101, thus the label of "interstate" for that
> mega-freeway, as well.
According to my Rand-McNally road atlas, there is a California state
Highway 1 which goes for the most part right up the coast from Santa
Monica at least to Rockport, and maybe farther. There is also a U.S.
Highway 101, which in some areas merges with the state Highway 1. U.S.
101 hugs the coast pretty closely starting at Eureka, and continues
north into Oregon. I don't know which of these roads is called the
Pacific Coast Highway.
As far as I can tell from my maps, there is no Interstate Highway 1.
There's an Interstate H1, which is an Interstate Highway but not an
interstate highway, because it's in Hawaii, but not a plain I-1.
--
As always, all opinions are just that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri
Estron
> I believe what Citizen McCaffertA was referring to is that only certain
> highways and byways have the official designation of "Interstate," while
> those other routes that still manage to cross state lines (thus
> qualifying, I believe, for the title of "interstate" without the capital
> letter) are also referred to by many with the same term.
My ladyfriend is the opposite way: she doesn't use the term
"interstate" or "Interstate," but the only road she calls "the highway"
is an Interstate highway.
Estron
> This may come from growing up too near I-70, which was always The
> Interstate. But I'm pretty sure I've heard people refer to US54 (which
> varies back and forth between some nice six-lane 60mph down to
> stop-light-and-40mph as it passes through town) as "the interstate," as
> well as I-235, which is a half-loop around town. The former actually goes
> somewhere (it's part of the primary east-west route through southern
> Kansas), where the latter doesn't, so the latter seems less an interstate
> even though it's an Interstate...
The term "Interstate" with a capital I means the road is part of the
Interstate Highway System. As such, it includes loops, beltways, and
spurs when in larger metropolitan areas. Although those loops, beltways
and spurs get an Interstate number (which is always three digits, to
differentiate them from the one- or two-digit main Interstate highways),
they don't go from state-to-state unless the metro area they're in
straddles state lines (such as the Kansas City metro area, in which
I-435 goes between Missouri and Kansas).
Then there's the Interstate highway that doesn't cross state lines at
all, Interstate H1, in Hawaii . . .
David Hatunen
Estron <est...@tfs.net> wrote:
>Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Around here we say "the 101" or "PCH" (for Pacific Coast
>> Highway -which is, if I'm not mistaken (and very likely could
>> be) is INTERSTATE Route 1 and merges with the 101, thus the
>> label of "interstate" for that mega-freeway, as well.
>
>According to my Rand-McNally road atlas, there is a California
>state Highway 1 which goes for the most part right up the coast
>from Santa Monica at least to Rockport, and maybe farther. There
>is also a U.S. Highway 101, which in some areas merges with the
>state Highway 1. U.S. 101 hugs the coast pretty closely starting
>at Eureka, and continues north into Oregon. I don't know which of
>these roads is called the Pacific Coast Highway.
In California, "Pacific Coast Highway" refers only to SR-1 from its
intersection with I-5 south of Los Angeles to its intersection with
US-101 at Oxnard/Ventura.
>As far as I can tell from my maps, there is no Interstate Highway
>1. There's an Interstate H1, which is an Interstate Highway but
>not an interstate highway, because it's in Hawaii, but not a plain
>I-1.
It's part of the Interstate and Defense highway system, and is,
in fact, the "I-1" you are seeking. I beleive Alaska has also been
assigned some "interstate highways" but they remain unconstructed
for lack of interest.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
Barbara Needham
>Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Around here we say "the 101" or "PCH" (for Pacific Coast Highway -which
>> is, if I'm not mistaken (and very likely could be) is INTERSTATE Route
>> 1 and merges with the 101, thus the label of "interstate" for that
>> mega-freeway, as well.
>
>According to my Rand-McNally road atlas, there is a California state
>Highway 1 which goes for the most part right up the coast from Santa
>Monica at least to Rockport, and maybe farther. There is also a U.S.
>Highway 101, which in some areas merges with the state Highway 1. U.S.
>101 hugs the coast pretty closely starting at Eureka, and continues
>north into Oregon. I don't know which of these roads is called the
>Pacific Coast Highway.
State Highway One is Pacific Coast Highway. Mostly.
--
Barbara Needham
David Hatunen
Barbara Needham <barba...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>State Highway One is Pacific Coast Highway. Mostly.
Pacific Coast Highway is defined as a small part of SR-1. But SR-1
is NOT *mostly* Pacific Coast Highway.
Margaret Kane
Patricia Holtby wrote:
> Alice Faber <fab...@rcn.com> wrote in message
> news:030620002208536647%fab...@rcn.com...
> > In article <Mzi_4.2028$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> <snip> Even though I haven't
> > observed such generic use of "interstate", that doesn't mean that it
> > doesn't exist. One possible interpretation of your previous post was
> > that it was based on such a usage.
> >
> > Alice "the devil is in the details" Faber
> >
> Okay, I get it now. Sorry if I wasn't helpful. At least in my area of
> southern California, I have observed that casual abuse of the English
> language is the norm. At the risk of sounding elitist, I'll even say
> well-educated young people brought up in middle-class and upper-class
> environments still favor affected street slang and sloppy grammar.
> Shorthand, slang, dropping sounds, combining with other sounds....we're a
> mess out here. And we do have a very casual way of attaching labels to
> things then referring evermore to something with that label. I'm trying to
> think up a good example and nothing really fits for your purposes.
<snip>
Actually I think Alice was specifically referring to your first example. Do
people in your part of the state regularly refer to highways that are not part
of the federal Interstate system as interstates? Do they do this in speech
only, or would you maybe see it in the newspaper?
Margaret
Patricia Holtby
Margaret Kane <mk...@zd.com> wrote in message
news:393D4C42...@zd.com...
>
> Patricia Holtby wrote:
>
> > Alice Faber <fab...@rcn.com> wrote in message
> > news:030620002208536647%fab...@rcn.com...
> > > In article <Mzi_4.2028$Gb7.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > > Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > <snipped>
> >
> > <snip>
> Actually I think Alice was specifically referring to your first example.
Do
> people in your part of the state regularly refer to highways that are not
part
> of the federal Interstate system as interstates? Do they do this in speech
> only, or would you maybe see it in the newspaper?
>
> Margaret
>
I can't tell you that I've seen "Interstate" in newspapers here. I do know
that referring to "the 101" as the "Ventura Freeway" is quite common here
both in newspapers and on television. And there are "End Freeway" and "Begin
Freeway" signs in many places which would reinforce the notion in peoples'
minds that they were travelling on a "freeway" as opposed to a
"limited-access highway."
I suppose my only frame of reference for "local language" is the way my
friends and acquaintances speak around me and usually we just say "the 101"
or the "Ventura Freeway" (the latter especially when referring to sections
of the freeway running through major city areas as opposed to the more
isolated beach zones between Ventura and Santa Barbara - there it becomes
"the 101" again or "PCH).
Not that it is any hard and fast rule. Everybody and anybody may have their
own term for any peculiar stretch of highway or road. For example, "Dead
Man's Curve" (made famous in a Jan and Dean song of the 60's) is actually a
section of Doheny Dr. close to Sunset Blvd.
I think a lot of people (myself included) refer to any big road that leads
from one place in the country to another place in the country (or at least
into a neighboring state) as an "interstate" highway or road. This is not to
give it the official designation of "Interstate." And we are, most likely,
not accurate in doing so. But we know to what we are referring.
Patricia Holtby
Patricia Holtby
David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:5za%4.29$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...> >Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snipped>
In California, "Pacific Coast Highway" refers only to SR-1 from its
> intersection with I-5 south of Los Angeles to its intersection with
> US-101 at Oxnard/Ventura.
> --
> ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
> * Daly City California *
> ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
What you say may be factually correct, but we still say we are taking PCH
all the way to San Francisco. Those who prefer an easier drive take "the
I-5" through the center of the state. But if you don't mind 60 miles of
windy road with no bathroom stops up around Big Sur, you get some pretty
spectacular scenery. And we still refer to that area as "PCH."
Then again, that may be a purely Southern California usage and the Big Sur
locals themselves or natives of more northern areas of our State may use a
different name.
Patricia Holtby
David Hatunen
Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:5za%4.29$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>> In California, "Pacific Coast Highway" refers only to SR-1 from
>> its intersection with I-5 south of Los Angeles to its
>> intersection with US-101 at Oxnard/Ventura.
>What you say may be factually correct, but we still say we are
>taking PCH all the way to San Francisco. Those who prefer an
>easier drive take "the I-5" through the center of the state. But
>if you don't mind 60 miles of windy road with no bathroom stops up
>around Big Sur, you get some pretty spectacular scenery. And we
>still refer to that area as "PCH."
You may call it the Lincoln Highway if you wish, but you would
still be wrong. I have lived adjacent to SR-1 south of San
Francisco now for some 15 years and in that time I have never heard
a local person refer to it as "Pacific Coast Highway"; it is, in
fact, the Cabrillo Highway from north of Santa Barbara to San
Francisco, although, frankly, hardly anyone calls it that either.
Should you ask anyone here how to get to PCH you will probably be
told to go down to the LA area.
>Then again, that may be a purely Southern California usage and the
>Big Sur locals themselves or natives of more northern areas of our
>State may use a different name.
Leave it to Southern Californians to be ignorant of anything north
of Santa Barbara. It's not a question of what the locals call it,
it's a question of what the state legislature calls it, for which
purpose I direct your attention to Section 635 of the California
Streets and Highways Code.
Barbara Needham
Hatunen) wrote:
>In article <6pdqjskf0u3ea08do...@4ax.com>,
>Barbara Needham <barba...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>State Highway One is Pacific Coast Highway. Mostly.
>
>Pacific Coast Highway is defined as a small part of SR-1. But SR-1
>is NOT *mostly* Pacific Coast Highway.
Well, yes, technically you are correct of course. I
guess I've lost it living too far inland these last few
years. What I was actually trying to say is that sometimes
whatever road is closest to the coast is sometimes called
Pacific Coast Highway, even when it isn't.
--
Barbara Needham
Patricia Holtby
> In article <6Vc%4.69$t13....@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
> >news:5za%4.29$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
It's not a question of what the locals call it,
> it's a question of what the state legislature calls it, for which
> purpose I direct your attention to Section 635 of the California
> Streets and Highways Code.
>
>
>
> --
> ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
> * Daly City California *
> ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
Yes, yes, I was not disagreeing with you at all except to make the point
that people will still use their own familiar terms for things rather than
run to their nearest law book or highway book to find out if they are
legally or factually permitted to use whatever term is in their mind to say.
I mean, many folks here refer even to the Midwest as "back east" and that
should cause a chuckle or shriek or two amongst our AFU compadres sitting at
their computers in Boston or New York.
*SIGH* I will not resist should the Language Police arrive on my doorstep.
Patricia Holtby
David Hatunen
Barbara Needham <barba...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 19:32:29 GMT, hat...@bolt.sonic.net (David
>Hatunen) wrote:
>
>>In article <6pdqjskf0u3ea08do...@4ax.com>,
>>Barbara Needham <barba...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>>State Highway One is Pacific Coast Highway. Mostly.
>>
>>Pacific Coast Highway is defined as a small part of SR-1. But SR-1
>>is NOT *mostly* Pacific Coast Highway.
>
>Well, yes, technically you are correct of course. I guess I've
>lost it living too far inland these last few years. What I was
>actually trying to say is that sometimes whatever road is closest
>to the coast is sometimes called Pacific Coast Highway, even when
>it isn't.
Perhaps. But certainly not by the California Streets and Highways
Code nor by anyone living anywhere near the Cabrillo Highway or
Shoreline Highway, which are the names of SR-1 to the south and to
the north of San Francisco, respectively.
David Hatunen
Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:3ld%4.49$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>> In article <6Vc%4.69$t13....@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
>> >news:5za%4.29$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>>
><snip>
>
>> It's not a question of what the locals call it, it's a question
>> of what the state legislature calls it, for which purpose I
>> and Highways Code.
>Yes, yes, I was not disagreeing with you at all except to make the
>point that people will still use their own familiar terms for
>things rather than run to their nearest law book or highway book
>to find out if they are legally or factually permitted to use
>whatever term is in their mind to say.
Then how about us who live near SR-1 way up north from the Pacific
Coast Highway? We don't call it "Pacific Coast Highway".
>I mean, many folks here refer even to the Midwest as "back east"
>and that should cause a chuckle or shriek or two amongst our AFU
>compadres sitting at their computers in Boston or New York.
The midwest is "back there" and it's to the east. It is, for me,
back east and that includes my former residence cities of Emporia
and Wichita, Kansas. But that begs the question of calling a
highway something other than what it is. And it's not a case of
some sort of renaming, like calling Sixth Avenue in NYC "Avenue of
the Americas".
>*SIGH* I will not resist should the Language Police arrive on my
>*doorstep.
No, but I will see if I can form a contingent of Half Moon Bay
residents to come and cuff you about the ears.
dea...@my-deja.com
Estron wrote:
>
> Then there's the Interstate highway that doesn't cross state lines at
> all, Interstate H1, in Hawaii . . .
>
Not to mentiion Interstate 97, which runs from Baltimore (almost) to
Annapolis (almost) in Maryland. I'm sure there are others (not prefixed
with the extra numbers indicating a loop, spur, bypass, extenstion,
whatever...)
Barbara Needham
Hatunen) wrote:
>Leave it to Southern Californians to be ignorant of anything north
>of Santa Barbara. It's not a question of what the locals call it,
>it's a question of what the state legislature calls it, for which
>purpose I direct your attention to Section 635 of the California
>Streets and Highways Code.
Actually, here is an interesting point. Factually, of course, it is
what the state legislature calls it. But this is alt.folklore.urban,
which also discusses urban legends or folklore, so in addition to
being interest in what things actually ARE, some of us are interested
in what people call them, even when they are not. So I remembered,
and Patricia remembered, that in a folkloric sort of way parts of
the Coastal Highway that are not strictly speaking PCH are called,
by some, Pacific Coast Highway. Whether they do so out of ignorance
may be of less interest to some than the fact that there is this
regional bit of folklore. Of course, it is more usage than folklore
so that may be stretching a point. Which brings up another possible
tie in; when does usage become so common that it becomes folklore?
[Using a definition obviously broader than just a story.]
--
Barbara Needham
Barbara Needham
Hatunen) wrote:
- stuff concerning Pacific Coast Highway snipped -
>Perhaps. But certainly not by the California Streets and Highways
>Code nor by anyone living anywhere near the Cabrillo Highway or
>Shoreline Highway, which are the names of SR-1 to the south and to
>the north of San Francisco, respectively.
Well, technically David is correct. However, I have found some
support for Patricia and me, at
<http://www.azcentral.com/travel/destinations/californiasouth/pchwy1.shtml>
which traces what they call Pacific Coast Highway from Southern
California to Puget Sound.
Quoting:
Yet it is not one road but a confusion of roads, for the PCH, as it is
known in LA, is not an official name but a popular one, and it covers
several U.S. and state route numbers.
--
Barbara Needham
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> I think a lot of people (myself included) refer to any big
> road that leads from one place in the country to another
> place in the country (or at least into a neighboring state)
> as an "interstate" highway or road. This is not to give it
> the official designation of "Interstate." And we are, most likely,
> not accurate in doing so. But we know to what we are referring.
Alice can correct me on this if her experience is different.
[She lives only 7 miles down the road from me as the crow flies]
but my experience here in Connecticut is that people seem to
avoid using the term "interstate" even when referring to the
Interstate. We use 84 as often as I-84, but almost _never_
call it Interstate 84, or "the Interstate". Perhaps we are
reluctant to admit that it is ever desirable or even possible
to travel to another state. Usually just the number is used,
whether it be state road, US Highway, or Interstate. I live
just off of 10, take 10 to 84 to 72 to 9 to go to work.
Three state roads and an interstate. Of course it helps
that there is almost no duplications of numbers. We have
US 1, 5, 6, 7, and 11, and state roads 2,3,4,8,9, and 10.
No duplications.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Alan Follett
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
> <cdim...@snet.net> writes:
>> By the way, where is US10? [not I-10,
>> I know that one].
> My road atlas shows it in Michigan, heading
> west from US 27, looking like it disappears
> in Lake Michigan and then crossing
> Wisconsin and Minnesota, appearing to
> disappear at Fargo.
At one time, it didn't disappear in Lake Michigan; it crossed it. No,
not a truly monumental bridge. The auto ferry service from Ludington,
Michigan to Manitowoc, Wisconsin, currently operated with SS _Badger_,
was once officially part of U.S. 10. For the current service, see:
http://www.ssbadger.com/default2.asp
Alan "thought it had more character when it was a Chesapeake & Ohio
Railway operation carrying rail freight cars, myself" Follett
Barbara Needham
Hatunen) wrote:
>In article <cc1rjsg0enoo7nn7n...@4ax.com>,
>Barbara Needham <barba...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, technically David is correct. However, I have found some
>>support for Patricia and me, at
>>
>><http://www.azcentral.com/travel/destinations/californiasouth/pchwy1.shtml>
>>
>>which traces what they call Pacific Coast Highway from Southern
>>California to Puget Sound.
>>
>>Quoting:
>>Yet it is not one road but a confusion of roads, for the PCH, as it is
>>known in LA, is not an official name but a popular one, and it covers
>>several U.S. and state route numbers.
>
>I've crossed swords with this guy before. He's simply wrong. He's
>trying to describe the highway along the Pacific Coast, or even the
>Pacific coast highway, but it ain't Pacific Coast Highway.
>
>He's the one who pointed out to me that the California web site
>tourist section had a California map that labelled SR-1 through Big
>Sur as "Pacific Coast Highway". To my astonishment he was right. I
>emailed the state tourist people. It doesn't say that anymore.
It seems to me that when I lived in Oregon they called it Pacific
coast highway. (Probably not Pacific Coast Highway.) Actually while I
was looking I found a Pacific Coast Highway in New Zealand also. And
some sort of singing group.
--
Barbara Needham
Drew Lawson
"Patricia Holtby" <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>I mean, many folks here refer even to the Midwest as "back east" and that
>should cause a chuckle or shriek or two amongst our AFU compadres sitting at
>their computers in Boston or New York.
Hell, people here (SF Bay) refer to *Wyoming* as "back east,"
at least on occasion.
Drew "which isn't as bad as calling LA the 'Deep South'" Lawson
--
|Drew Lawson | So many newsgroups |
|dr...@furrfu.com | So little time |
|http://www.furrfu.com/ | |
Patricia Holtby
Barbara Needham <barba...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:cc1rjsg0enoo7nn7n...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 21:33:35 GMT, hat...@bolt.sonic.net (David
> Hatunen) wrote:
> - stuff concerning Pacific Coast Highway snipped -
>
> >Perhaps. But certainly not by the California Streets and Highways
> >Code nor by anyone living anywhere near the Cabrillo Highway or
> >Shoreline Highway, which are the names of SR-1 to the south and to
> >the north of San Francisco, respectively.
>
> support for Patricia and me, at
>
>
<http://www.azcentral.com/travel/destinations/californiasouth/pchwy1.shtml>
>
> which traces what they call Pacific Coast Highway from Southern
> California to Puget Sound.
>
> Quoting:
> Yet it is not one road but a confusion of roads, for the PCH, as it is
> known in LA, is not an official name but a popular one, and it covers
> several U.S. and state route numbers.
> Barbara Needham
Wow. Thanks, I needed that. And the other point you made about "usage" and
when does it become legend, etc.... Isn't that how UL's get their juice? And
the usage itself, being a bit like the kid's "Alphabet Game," where the
retelling of something changes it slightly or magnifies it in some way, only
adds to the "legend" status of the original content.
Patricia Holtby
Marc M Reeve
>David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:5za%4.29$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>> intersection with I-5 south of Los Angeles to its intersection with
>> US-101 at Oxnard/Ventura.
>
>What you say may be factually correct, but we still say we are taking PCH
>all the way to San Francisco. Those who prefer an easier drive take "the
>I-5" through the center of the state. But if you don't mind 60 miles of
>windy road with no bathroom stops up around Big Sur, you get some pretty
>spectacular scenery. And we still refer to that area as "PCH."
>
>locals themselves or natives of more northern areas of our State may use a
>different name.
>
variations on @#$%&*!! It's been passable for about 6 months of the
past 18, and repairs on the Bixby and Rock Creek bridges (the lovely
concrete arches that have shown up in so many travelogues and car commercials
over the years) are three months past their projected repair date, with
no end in sight.
In short, you can't take PCH all the way to San Francisco right now.
Marc "last went to LA by way of SR 1 in 1992. came back via I-5 in 1/3
the time." Reeve
--
Marc Reeve cmr...@SPAM.ucsc.edu
Don't mistake my opinions for those of the University of California.
Cats don't like SPAM.
Marc M Reeve
>Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
>>> Patricia Holtby <p.ho...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> >David Hatunen <hat...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
>>> >news:5za%4.29$qm3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>>
>>> of what the state legislature calls it, for which purpose I
>>> and Highways Code.
>
>>Yes, yes, I was not disagreeing with you at all except to make the
>>point that people will still use their own familiar terms for
>>things rather than run to their nearest law book or highway book
>>to find out if they are legally or factually permitted to use
>>whatever term is in their mind to say.
>
>Then how about us who live near SR-1 way up north from the Pacific
>Coast Highway? We don't call it "Pacific Coast Highway".
>
>
>>*SIGH* I will not resist should the Language Police arrive on my
>>*doorstep.
>
>No, but I will see if I can form a contingent of Half Moon Bay
>residents to come and cuff you about the ears.
>
here, too, except for the stretch which actually traverses Santa Cruz,
which is Mission Street. (Which Caltrans is currently widening, much to
the dismay of Westside Santa Cruz residents.)
Marc "I live on the Eastside, but I traverse Mission on the way
to work, bleah" Reeve