Shortest ferry ride in the world
Paul Tomblin
ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
in the Guiness Book of World Records as such. I even vectored that on my
web page, http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/cytz/ but it strikes me that I never
actually *saw* the entry in the Guiness Book, I just heard about it a lot.
Has anybody ever heard of this, either as a legend or with actual proof?
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?
Because OCT(31) == DEC(25)
Jim Segrave
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>in the Guiness Book of World Records as such. I even vectored that on my
>web page, http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/cytz/ but it strikes me that I never
>actually *saw* the entry in the Guiness Book, I just heard about it a lot.
>
>Has anybody ever heard of this, either as a legend or with actual proof?
Well the ferry from Amsterdam Centraal Station to Amsterdam Noord
might well be in the same range. Except it's free. And frequent (every
5 minutes during the day, sloping off to 10 minutes and finally 15 in
the dead of night).
Ralph Jones
>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>in the Guiness Book of World Records as such. I even vectored that on my
>web page, http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/cytz/ but it strikes me that I never
>actually *saw* the entry in the Guiness Book, I just heard about it a lot.
>
>Has anybody ever heard of this, either as a legend or with actual proof?
When I lived in Southern Cal, 1968-72, there was a ferry to Balboa
Island in the middle of Newport Harbor -- basically just a powered
barge. I doubt it went 400 feet.
rj
Paul Tomblin
>On 8 Feb 2002 17:19:17 GMT, ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) used 13
>lines of space inciting the following:
>>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>the still pics btw, can assure the camera focals are distorting), but I
>would have thought one/more of these would easily make sub 400feet.
> http://www.hawkesbury.net.au/government/vehicular_ferries.html
They look longer to me, but I can't be sure. I once rode on a ferry that
was basically a pontoon raft pulled by an outboard motor boat on a rope.
Just before we reached the other shore, the motor boat pulled us sideways
which got us "skidding" and slowing down, then applied just enough back
pressure to straighten us out again and let us slowly barely touch the
dock. It was such poetry that I had to take the same ferry back later
that evening, and sure enough the motor boat driver did exactly the same
thing.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
Paul Tomblin
>On 8 Feb 2002 17:19:17 GMT, ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>When I lived in Southern Cal, 1968-72, there was a ferry to Balboa
>Island in the middle of Newport Harbor -- basically just a powered
>barge. I doubt it went 400 feet.
According to
http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.orangecounty/balboaislandferry.cfm
the ride is pi miles. At least it looks like a pi symbol on my browser.
But they translate it to 0.5 km, so 500 metres, which is more like 1500
feet than 400.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the
best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't
last out the year." --Editor of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957.
Larry M Headlund
a fee? What precisely is meant by scheduled? Does the ferry have to be
powered?
For example, in Pokhara, Nepal there is a rope drawn pontoon ferry between
the "mainland" and the Fish Tail Lodge which covers a distance of around
100ft. Would this count?
Larry "Why stay anywhere else?" Headlund
--
--
Larry Headlund l...@world.std.com Mathematical Engineering, Inc.
(617) 242 7741
Unix, X and Motif Consulting Speaking for myself at most.
Paul Tomblin
>In article <0nb86u83a8e8mvau8...@4ax.com>,
>Ralph Jones <ralp...@attbi.com> wrote:
>>On 8 Feb 2002 17:19:17 GMT, ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>>>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>>>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>>>in the Guiness Book of World Records as such. I even vectored that on my
And it's listed that way (including the Guiness reference) on the Toronto
Port Corporation web site.
>Some definitions would have to be in order: Does the ferry have to charge
>a fee? What precisely is meant by scheduled? Does the ferry have to be
>powered?
It's probably quibbles like this why it's not in the current Guiness Book.
Doing some research, I found a ferry in Marseille France which claims to
be "The world's shortest ferry ride" even though it's 300 metres long, but
that's the French for you.
And for a real challenger, there is:
http://www.webgolfer.com/september/charpet.html
(trimming to spare you the vomit inducing name of the golf course)
:trip around the south arm of pristine Lake Charlevoix to reach the course,
:one may take the Ironton Ferry made famous by Ripley's "Believe it or Not"
:for being one of the world's shortest car ferries at less than 100 yards!
Considering that Ripley's never let the facts get in the way of a good
story, I suspect they're more likely to have a list like this than
Guiness.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
"I find your lack of clue...disturbing" - SithAdmin Vader.
TMOliver
> In article <0nb86u83a8e8mvau8...@4ax.com>,
> Ralph Jones <ralp...@attbi.com> wrote:
>>On 8 Feb 2002 17:19:17 GMT, ptom...@xcski.com (Paul
>>Tomblin) wrote:
>>
>>>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew
>>>that the ferry ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto
>>>Island Airport was the shortest regular scheduled ferry
>>>ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was in the
>>>Guiness Book of World Records as such. I even vectored
>>>that on my web page, http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/cytz/ but
>>>it strikes me that I never actually *saw* the entry in the
>>>Guiness Book, I just heard about it a lot.
>>>
>>>Has anybody ever heard of this, either as a legend or with
>>>actual proof?
>>
>>When I lived in Southern Cal, 1968-72, there was a ferry to
>>Balboa Island in the middle of Newport Harbor -- basically
>>just a powered barge. I doubt it went 400 feet.
>>
> Some definitions would have to be in order: Does the ferry
> have to charge a fee? What precisely is meant by scheduled?
> Does the ferry have to be powered?
>
> For example, in Pokhara, Nepal there is a rope drawn pontoon
> ferry between the "mainland" and the Fish Tail Lodge which
> covers a distance of around 100ft. Would this count?
>
On the road from Panther Junction (Big Bend Nat'l Park, Texas)
the old hand drawn ferry to Boquillas del Carmen, Mexico surely
can't be much longer than 100', although crossers to Boquillas
shouldn't expect much in the way of tourist attractions.
Paul Tomblin
>And for a real challenger, there is:
>http://www.webgolfer.com/september/charpet.html
>(trimming to spare you the vomit inducing name of the golf course)
>:trip around the south arm of pristine Lake Charlevoix to reach the course,
>:one may take the Ironton Ferry made famous by Ripley's "Believe it or Not"
>:for being one of the world's shortest car ferries at less than 100 yards!
You'd think a golfer writing for a golf magazine would be able to estimate
distances, wouldn't you? A more well researched page for the Ironton
Ferry says it's a 600 foot long ride, and it was listed in Ripley's
because the captain travelled more than the equivalent of twice around the
world without ever being more than one-quarter mile from home.
http://www.bestreadguide.com/littletraverse/stories/19991014/att_ironton.shtml
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
"AOL would be a giant diesel-smoking bus with hundreds of ebola victims on
board throwing dead wombats and rotten cabbage at the other cars"
- a.s.r throws the Information Superhighway metaphor into reverse.
R H Draney
>
>According to
>http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.orangecounty/balboaislandferry.cfm
>the ride is pi miles. At least it looks like a pi symbol on my browser.
>But they translate it to 0.5 km, so 500 metres, which is more like 1500
>feet than 400.
Your "pi" is a "one-quarter", also known as Right-hand-Ctrl+Alt+6...pi miles
would be more like much longer, in the neighborhood of 16,000 feet....r
Joseph Michael Bay
>According to
>http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.orangecounty/balboaislandferry.cfm
>the ride is pi miles. At least it looks like a pi symbol on my browser.
>But they translate it to 0.5 km, so 500 metres, which is more like 1500
>feet than 400.
Worst pi ever.
--
Joseph M. Bay Lamont Sanford Junior University
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998
Go there.
Do you like http://www.stanford.edu/~jmbay gladiator movies?
David Hatunen
>Doing some research, I found a ferry in Marseille France which claims to
>be "The world's shortest ferry ride" even though it's 300 metres long, but
>that's the French for you.
>
>And for a real challenger, there is:
>http://www.webgolfer.com/september/charpet.html
>(trimming to spare you the vomit inducing name of the golf course)
>:trip around the south arm of pristine Lake Charlevoix to reach the course,
>:one may take the Ironton Ferry made famous by Ripley's "Believe it or Not"
>:for being one of the world's shortest car ferries at less than 100 yards!
I've been on very short ferry rides like that in many places,
including a very short ferry ride on a one-car ferry in the Sacramento
River Delta. Wasn't scheduled, though, since if the ferry guy was on
the wrong side when you pulled up he just came and got you.
******* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@worldnet.att.net) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
Ralph Jones
>In a previous article, Ralph Jones <ralp...@attbi.com> said:
>>On 8 Feb 2002 17:19:17 GMT, ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>>>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>>>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>
>>When I lived in Southern Cal, 1968-72, there was a ferry to Balboa
>>Island in the middle of Newport Harbor -- basically just a powered
>>barge. I doubt it went 400 feet.
>
>According to
>http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.orangecounty/balboaislandferry.cfm
>the ride is pi miles. At least it looks like a pi symbol on my browser.
>But they translate it to 0.5 km, so 500 metres, which is more like 1500
>feet than 400.
OK, that's the one; lousy right-brain memory, I guess, but I shoulda
known that. The pi shows as 1/4 on my browser, which would be 1320
feet. Lousy California arithmetic, but I shoulda known that.
rj
Mike Kruger
news:v0Y88.1$Ap2....@news01.buzzardnews.com...
signature:
--
The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to
constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every
appearance, the variable PI can be given that value with a DATA
statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant. This
also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change.
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers
R H Draney
>
>On the other hand, there's this quote which I occasionally use as my e-mail
>signature:
>
>--
>The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to
>constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every
>appearance, the variable PI can be given that value with a DATA
>statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant. This
>also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change.
>
>-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers
For those unable or unwilling to memorize the value in digits, 4*ATAN(1) gives
the same answer, and is accurate to whatever number of places the system
routines allow...(it may be necessary to put decimal points after the two
numeric characters in this expression for those compilers dim enough to think
integers have any business being in an expression involving an analytical
function)....
If you *really* want to carry the value to as many places as Xerox illustrates,
somewhere you've also got to describe it as DOUBLE PRECISION....
And, yes, I realize that the humor derives from the idea that the value of pi
might change....
R H "how did I end up in Indiana, anyway?" Draney
Dan Evans
> When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
> ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
> regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
> in the Guiness Book of World Records as such.
According to an exhibit in the Adirondack Museum, Blue Mountain Lake,
NY, the shortest full-gauge railroad line in the world was the stretch
of railroad track along the Marian River, from Raquette Lake to
<mumble> Lake, part of the Eckert Chain connected to Blue Mountain
Lake, which was less than one mile long. When the Point Pleasant
Hotel was built (which was supposed to be the first major hotel with
electric lighting), visitors could take the train from New York City
to Raquette Lake, ride a ferry to the Marian River landing, change to
the one mile train ride to the next lake, then board a lake steamer
that would take the passengers to the hotel at Blue Mountain Lake.
This was all about 1900-1910 (L).
How does one check these kinds of claims? "Shortest full-gauge
railroad." "First major hotel with electric lights."
Dan "contributing to the collective brain sludge" Evans
Bob Ward
>-:ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote in message news:<a411al$ekv$1...@allhats.xcski.com>...
>-:> When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>-:> ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>-:> regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!), and it was
>-:> in the Guiness Book of World Records as such.
>-:
>-:According to an exhibit in the Adirondack Museum, Blue Mountain Lake,
>-:NY, the shortest full-gauge railroad line in the world was the stretch
>-:of railroad track along the Marian River, from Raquette Lake to
>-:<mumble> Lake, part of the Eckert Chain connected to Blue Mountain
>-:Lake, which was less than one mile long. When the Point Pleasant
>-:Hotel was built (which was supposed to be the first major hotel with
>-:electric lighting), visitors could take the train from New York City
>-:to Raquette Lake, ride a ferry to the Marian River landing, change to
>-:the one mile train ride to the next lake, then board a lake steamer
>-:that would take the passengers to the hotel at Blue Mountain Lake.
>-:
>-:This was all about 1900-1910 (L).
>-:
>-:How does one check these kinds of claims? "Shortest full-gauge
>-:railroad." "First major hotel with electric lights."
>-:
>-:Dan "contributing to the collective brain sludge" Evans
Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
of a fatal accident last year.
It's only 298 feet long...
--
This space left intentionally blank
HWM
>
> When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
> ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
> regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!)
Some overcharged trip, that. There is the "föri" in Turku, that isn't
too long a ferry as it is across the ditch they call rivers, but it is
longer. There is a motorboat that goes to an island in Helsinki and that
distance... from these pictures:
http://www.uunisaari.com/liikenne.html
--
Cheers, HWM
hen...@sanet.fi
" I could be bounded in a nut-shell, and count myself a
king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."
KGename
>>
>>According to
>>http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.orangecounty/balboaislandferry.cfm
>>the ride ("World's shortest ferry ride) is pi miles. At least it looks like
>>a pi symbol on my browser.
>>But they translate it to 0.5 km, so 500 metres, which is more like >>1500
feet than 400.
Which just goes to show that everyone has their own opinion of the value of pi.
73,
Keith
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change ready.
Ralph Jones
wrote:
I was once party to a rather large effort to change some constants in
a big suite of software written in FORTRAN by mathematicians. Along
the way we struggled with trying to prevent the same circus happening
next time round, and the standard metaphor became "next time the speed
of light changes". Funny thing was, it did. A couple of significant
digits were added, and the Big Top came to town again.
rj
Sherilyn
>
>For those unable or unwilling to memorize the value in digits, 4*ATAN(1) gives
>the same answer, and is accurate to whatever number of places the system
>routines allow...(it may be necessary to put decimal points after the two
>numeric characters in this expression for those compilers dim enough to think
>integers have any business being in an expression involving an analytical
>function)....
>
>If you *really* want to carry the value to as many places as Xerox illustrates,
>somewhere you've also got to describe it as DOUBLE PRECISION....
I once pulled out the source of the GNU atan function, having until
then always used the identity pi=4 arctan 1 which I had learned at
school. I was curious to find what formula was being used for the trig
functions, since the traditional derivation does not converge very
quickly.
In the range 11/16 to 19/16, the formula used was:
atan(y/x) = atan( 1 ) + atan( (y-x)/(x+y) )
And of course atan(1) was taken from the hardcoded value of pi...
--
Sherilyn
David Hatunen
wrote:
>Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
>Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
>of a fatal accident last year.
>
>It's only 298 feet long...
It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre Coeur on Montmartre in Paris
is shorter.
Bob Ward
Hatunen) wrote:
>-:On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>-:wrote:
>-:
>-:>Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
>-:>Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
>-:>of a fatal accident last year.
>-:>
>-:>It's only 298 feet long...
>-:
>-:It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>-:
>-:I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre Coeur on Montmartre in Paris
>-:is shorter.
>
That's what they call it...
Songbyrd11
>>Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
>>Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
>>of a fatal accident last year.
>>
>>It's only 298 feet long...
>
>It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
But ain't it Grand?
Song "This is just a sot in the dark" byrd
David Hatunen
wrote:
>On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:46:51 GMT, hat...@worldnet.att.net (David
Um. What's the antecedant for the pronoun "it"? And who are "they"?
Lon Stowell
David Hatunen <hat...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
>>Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
>>of a fatal accident last year.
>>
>>It's only 298 feet long...
>
>It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>
>I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre Coeur on Montmartre in Paris
>is shorter.
Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA? Plane never really bothered
to get very far above the bay, have no idea if route is still
in existence having taken it on the way to the Army, not a real
interesting topic to stay current on.
David Hatunen
Stowell) wrote:
> Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
> from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA? Plane never really bothered
> to get very far above the bay, have no idea if route is still
> in existence having taken it on the way to the Army, not a real
> interesting topic to stay current on.
They were still flying it when I first lived there. It was used as a
way to get planes from SFO to OAK to start a route from Oakland, and
there was a point about a decade of so ago when a LOT of people were
taking that flight becuase you could get the minimum 750 frequent
flyer miles for it. As far as I know, the flight is no longer
scheduled, although the plane transfers may still be taking place.
Paul Tomblin
> Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
> from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA? Plane never really bothered
According to many web sites, the shortest airline flight in the world is
the two minute flight between Westray and Papa Westray off Scotland.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of
tapes hurtling down the highway.
-- Andrew Tanenbaum
Bob Ward
Hatunen) wrote:
>-:On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 15:28:59 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>-:wrote:
>-:
>-:>On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:46:51 GMT, hat...@worldnet.att.net (David
>-:>Hatunen) wrote:
>-:>
>-:>>-:On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>-:>>-:wrote:
>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:>Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
>-:>>-:>Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
>-:>>-:>of a fatal accident last year.
>-:>>-:>
>-:>>-:>It's only 298 feet long...
>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre Coeur on Montmartre in Paris
>-:>>-:is shorter.
>-:>>
>-:>
>-:>That's what they call it...
>-:
>-:Um. What's the antecedant for the pronoun "it"? And who are "they"?
>-:
>-:
Welcome to Angels Flight Railway, Los Angeles, CA
"Shortest Railway in the World"
http://www.westworld.com/~elson/larail/angelsflight.html
David Hatunen
wrote:
>Welcome to Angels Flight Railway, Los Angeles, CA
>"Shortest Railway in the World"
>
>http://www.westworld.com/~elson/larail/angelsflight.html
Well, sure. They'd say so.
Bob Ward
Hatunen) wrote:
>-:On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 18:18:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>-:wrote:
>-:
>-:>On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:07:57 GMT, hat...@worldnet.att.net (David
>-:>Hatunen) wrote:
>-:>
>-:>>-:On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 15:28:59 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>-:>>-:wrote:
>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:>On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:46:51 GMT, hat...@worldnet.att.net (David
>-:>>-:>Hatunen) wrote:
>-:>>-:>
>-:>>-:>>-:On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
>-:>>-:>>-:wrote:
>-:>>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:>>-:>Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
>-:>>-:>>-:>Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
>-:>>-:>>-:>of a fatal accident last year.
>-:>>-:>>-:>
>-:>>-:>>-:>It's only 298 feet long...
>-:>>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:>>-:It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>-:>>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:>>-:I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre Coeur on Montmartre in Paris
>-:>>-:>>-:is shorter.
>-:>>-:>>
>-:>>-:>That's what they call it...
>-:>>-:
>-:>>-:Um. What's the antecedant for the pronoun "it"? And who are "they"?
>-:>>-:
>-:>Welcome to Angels Flight Railway, Los Angeles, CA
>-:>"Shortest Railway in the World"
>-:>
>-:>http://www.westworld.com/~elson/larail/angelsflight.html
>-:
>-:Well, sure. They'd say so.
>-:
According to Google, most of the websites containing this phrase seem
to agree, although there appears to be at least one vote for an
elevator in Iowa.
Richard Casady
Stowell) wrote:
there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
Note that my email address has changed. My
fuckininternetserviceprovider, FISP, ies scum.
[Richard] Casady
\ _O_/ \_O_/ \_O_/
| | |
W W W. A M U K I N A M E R I K A . C O M
/ \ / \ / \
_\ /_ _\ /_ _\ /_
Joe Boswell
<hat...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>On 10 Feb 2002 00:26:49 GMT, lsto...@lenny.sfrn.dnai.com (Lon
>Stowell) wrote:
>
>> Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
>> from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA?
>As far as I know, the flight is no longer
>scheduled, although the plane transfers may still be taking place.
There is a scheduled air service from Westray to Papa Westray in Orkney,
a distance of 3 km (2 miles) between airfields covered in two minutes.
--
Joe Boswell * If I cannot be free, I'll be cheap
Alan Follett
>On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800,
> Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Actually, I think the honor of "World's
>> shortest railroad" is held by Angels Flight
>> in downtown LA - although it is currently
>> closed because of a fatal accident last year.
>> It's only 298 feet long...
> It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
Well, rails, flanged wheels...sure, why not? However, the original
claim was posed in terms of "full gauge" (more commonly described as
"standard gauge"), in which event Angel's Flight does not qualify.
> I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre
> Coeur on Montmartre in Paris is shorter.
I've been unable to find an exact length for the Montmartre funicular,
even on the Rat Pee's official site; but it's at least in the same
ballpark as Angel's Flight. Nice fan-site image at:
http://www.atkielski.com/inlink.html?/PhotoGallery/Paris/General/FunicularSmall.html
Alan "sure saved my knees a few times" Follett
David Hatunen
Follett) wrote:
>I've been unable to find an exact length for the Montmartre funicular,
>even on the Rat Pee's official site; but it's at least in the same
>ballpark as Angel's Flight. Nice fan-site image at:
I think we can settle the matter of Angels Flight, whose promoters
seem to think its 298 feet make it the shortest in the world. In fact,
the funicular at Quebec (city) between the lower old town and the
upper town is only 215 feet long:
http://www.funiculaire-quebec.com/en/english.html
Whether this is shorter than Montmartre is still up in the air.
Bob Ward
Follett) wrote:
>-:hat...@worldnet.att.net (David Hatunen) wrote:
>-:
>-:>On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800,
>-:> Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net> wrote:
>-:>> Actually, I think the honor of "World's
>-:>> shortest railroad" is held by Angels Flight
>-:>> in downtown LA - although it is currently
>-:>> closed because of a fatal accident last year.
>-:>> It's only 298 feet long...
>-:
>-:> It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>-:
>-:Well, rails, flanged wheels...sure, why not? However, the original
>-:claim was posed in terms of "full gauge" (more commonly described as
>-:"standard gauge"), in which event Angel's Flight does not qualify.
>-:
Are you sure? I rode on it a couple of years ago, and the tracks
didn't strike me as being unusually wide or narrow.
>-:> I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre
>-:> Coeur on Montmartre in Paris is shorter.
>-:
>-:I've been unable to find an exact length for the Montmartre funicular,
>-:even on the Rat Pee's official site; but it's at least in the same
>-:ballpark as Angel's Flight. Nice fan-site image at:
>-:
>-:http://www.atkielski.com/inlink.html?/PhotoGallery/Paris/General/FunicularSmall.html
>-:
>-:Alan "sure saved my knees a few times" Follett
Simon Slavin
hat...@worldnet.att.net (David Hatunen) wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Actually, I think the honor of "World's shortest railroad" is held by
> >Angels Flight in downtown LA - although it is currently closed because
> >of a fatal accident last year.
> >
> >It's only 298 feet long...
>
> It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>
> I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre Coeur on Montmartre in Paris
> is shorter.
Should the length be counted
a) as plotted on a map (vertical movement doesn't count)
b) by the length of the track (pointless diversions count)
c) as a straight line between stations
Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | [One] thing that worries me about Bush and
No junk email please. | Blair's "war on terrorism" is: how will they
| know when they've won it ? -- Terry Jones
THE FRENCH WAS THERE
Norm Soley
> ride in the West(?) Channel
Yes, the airport ferry crosses the "Western Gap"
> to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
> regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!)
I take that ferry a fair bit and I would have guessed it was actually
only about half that but nope, the channel is 121 metres wide.
>, and it was
> in the Guiness Book of World Records as such. I even vectored that on my
> web page, http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/cytz/ but it strikes me that I never
> actually *saw* the entry in the Guiness Book, I just heard about it a lot.
I had the annual version that first included the CN Tower I remember
it as also having this but these days memory does not always serve.
The book is long since gone.
I think the critical qualifiers were "regularly scheduled" and
"automobile ferry". There are lots and lots of shorter ferry crossings
but they are all "on demand". I can testify to the occasionally
annoying regularity of the schedule of the YTZ ferry. It round trips
every 15 minutes but will carry no other vehicles or pedestrian
passengers when carrying a fuel tanker, so if your cutting it close
for a flight (as I'm inclined to do) the fuel truck can hold you up 15
minutes...
jrla...@shell.golden.net
David Hatunen <hat...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:28:13 -0800 (PST), AFol...@webtv.net (Alan
>Follett) wrote:
>
>>I've been unable to find an exact length for the Montmartre funicular,
>>even on the Rat Pee's official site; but it's at least in the same
>>ballpark as Angel's Flight. Nice fan-site image at:
>
>I think we can settle the matter of Angels Flight, whose promoters
>seem to think its 298 feet make it the shortest in the world. In fact,
>the funicular at Quebec (city) between the lower old town and the
>upper town is only 215 feet long:
>http://www.funiculaire-quebec.com/en/english.html
>
>Whether this is shorter than Montmartre is still up in the air.
Isn't there a ferry that goes from Toronto to Toronto Island that's really
short? It just crosses a narrow channel over by the island airport if I'm
remembering things correctly. Something like fifty or sixty feet,
Definitly shorter than a hundred feet.
--
john R. Latala
jrla...@golden.net
Alan Follett
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:28:13 -0800 (PST), AFol...@webtv.net (Alan
> Follett) wrote:
>
> >-:hat...@worldnet.att.net (David Hatunen) wrote:
> >-:
> >-:>On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800,
> >-:> Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net> wrote:
> >-:>> Actually, I think the honor of "World's
> >-:>> shortest railroad" is held by Angels Flight
> >-:>> in downtown LA - although it is currently
> >-:>> closed because of a fatal accident last year.
> >-:>> It's only 298 feet long...
> >-:
> >-:> It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
> >-:
> >-:Well, rails, flanged wheels...sure, why not? However, the original
> >-:claim was posed in terms of "full gauge" (more commonly described as
> >-:"standard gauge"), in which event Angel's Flight does not qualify.
> >-:
>
> Are you sure? I rode on it a couple of years ago, and the tracks
> didn't strike me as being unusually wide or narrow.
>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/3518/html/cclafun.html.
Alan "standard would be 4 feet 8.5 inches" Follett
Bob Ward
Hatunen) wrote:
>-:On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:28:13 -0800 (PST), AFol...@webtv.net (Alan
>-:Follett) wrote:
>-:
>-:
>-:>I've been unable to find an exact length for the Montmartre funicular,
>-:>even on the Rat Pee's official site; but it's at least in the same
>-:>ballpark as Angel's Flight. Nice fan-site image at:
>-:
>-:I think we can settle the matter of Angels Flight, whose promoters
>-:seem to think its 298 feet make it the shortest in the world. In fact,
>-:the funicular at Quebec (city) between the lower old town and the
>-:upper town is only 215 feet long:
>-:http://www.funiculaire-quebec.com/en/english.html
>-:
>-:Whether this is shorter than Montmartre is still up in the air.
>-:
What's the conversion rate on Canadian feet?
Lee Rudolph
>(pointless diversions count)
I should hope so, why else would we all contribute to AFU?
Lee Rudolph
Lon Stowell
Scott Peterson
>I was once party to a rather large effort to change some constants in
>a big suite of software written in FORTRAN by mathematicians. Along
>the way we struggled with trying to prevent the same circus happening
>next time round, and the standard metaphor became "next time the speed
>of light changes". Funny thing was, it did. A couple of significant
>digits were added, and the Big Top came to town again.
My favorite along these lines came when I had to modify a very old
COBOL system that included calculations for sales tax. The *&^*)
genius who coded the program didn't use the obvious variable name of
SALES-TAX-RATE. He called it FIVE-PERCENT.
So you ended up with a statement like Calculate SALES-TAX =
TOTAL-PRICE * FIVE-PERCENT. Real cute.
Anyway,over the years, rather than change the variable, maintenance
programmers simply changed the value of the variable whenever the tax
rate changed. By the time I got to it, it had been changed eight or
nine times and the tax rate was something like 7.75%. Still stored in
a variable called FIVE-PERCENT.
Thank god for editors that will do a 'change all'.
Scott Peterson
--
Stupidity got us into this mess...why can't it get us out?
Michael Schmidt
> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 18:18:04 -0800, Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:07:57 GMT, hat...@worldnet.att.net (David
>>Hatunen) wrote:
>>
<snip wannabe short railroads>
From _The Modern Wonder Book of Trains and Railroading_, Norman Carlisle,
The John C. Winston Company, Philadelphia:1946:
"The most fantastic short line of all had no passengers, no station, no
trains, not even a name! In 1904, the citizens of Port Angeles,
Washington, were excited by reports that the Union Pacific Railroad
planned to build through their town. An alert man named Norman Smith
started searching the surrounding mountains for the easiest way through by
rail. He talked to trappers, hunters, and lumbermen, asking opinions and
getting suggestions. He spent weeks combing the steep cliffs and trudging
through heavy brush that tore at his clothes, until at last he found the
right place. A narrow shelf ran along the towering rock walls. Here was
the only possible spot for track. To build a road anywhere else would cost
a terrific amount of money for blasting. Smith's happiness knew no bounds.
The Union Pacific would pay a fortune for that pass. He rushed back to
Port Angeles and bought a full-size iron rail. Cuttting it in two, he
hauled it up the mountain and laid it on ties. He figured that the law
would recognize this fifteen-foot stretch of track as a rilroad, and with
it his claim to the land.
"But the plan did not work. The Union Pacific did not build over that
route, and when the Milwaukee Railroad got to Port Angeles, Smith's wild
scheme did not stand in it's way.
"So the shortest railroad in the world never carried a passenger or a
train. Today the wilderness has buried its fifteen feet of rusty track and
rotted ties that sit useless halfway up a mountain."
The book goes on to state:
The Valley Railroad, Westline, McKean County, PA at one mile, the shortest
operating railroad in the US.
The Beaufort and Morehead Railroad, between Beaufort and Morehead City, NC
at 3.3 mi., the shortest "full service" railroad (freight, passenger,
express, mail), using equipment provided by the Atlantic and North
Carolina Railroad.
The shortest full service railroad with its own equipment was the 4.6 mile
Sandersville Railroad of Sandersville, GA.
There are assorted tram lines, bridge routes and other oddities listed.
Michael "glad you asked" Schmidt.
Paul Tomblin
>Isn't there a ferry that goes from Toronto to Toronto Island that's really
>short? It just crosses a narrow channel over by the island airport if I'm
>remembering things correctly. Something like fifty or sixty feet,
>Definitly shorter than a hundred feet.
I hope you're trying to be funny. If not, go read the start of the
thread. Use Google if you have to. And learn how to estimate distance by
eye.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
"This also tells they understand our language. They are just not willing to
speak to us using it." "Who knew they were French?" - Babylon 5
Jon Miller
> What's the conversion rate on Canadian feet?
Wouldn't that be about .6 feet to the foot? Otherwise linear foot pricing
wouldn't make cents. (Or would, depending which side of the conversion you're
on.)
Jon Miller
Laurence Doering
> hat...@worldnet.att.net (David Hatunen) wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:30:04 -0800,
> > Bob Ward <bob....@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Actually, I think the honor of "World's
> >> shortest railroad" is held by Angels Flight
> >> in downtown LA - although it is currently
> >> closed because of a fatal accident last year.
> >> It's only 298 feet long...
>
> > It's a funicular; is that a "railroad"?
>
> Well, rails, flanged wheels...sure, why not? However, the original
> claim was posed in terms of "full gauge" (more commonly described as
> "standard gauge"), in which event Angel's Flight does not qualify.
>
> > I suspect the funicular going up to Sacre
> > Coeur on Montmartre in Paris is shorter.
>
> I've been unable to find an exact length for the Montmartre funicular,
> even on the Rat Pee's official site; but it's at least in the same
> ballpark as Angel's Flight.
According to its official web site at
<http://www.funiculaire-quebec.com/en/english.html>
the funicular between the Terrasse Dufferin and the lower town in Quebec
City is far shorter than Angels Flight, at only 210 feet.
Oddly enough, the Quebec funicular has also killed a hapless tourist or
two, but was rebuilt after its 1996 accident and is now back in service.
The official web page does not mention the Quebec funicular's bloody history
for some reason.
Larry
"maybe that Bonhomme Carneval guy had something to do with it"
Doering
David Hatunen
sla...@hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) wrote:
[funicular length]
>Should the length be counted
>
>a) as plotted on a map (vertical movement doesn't count)
>b) by the length of the track (pointless diversions count)
>c) as a straight line between stations
Got me. What did the Angels Flight data mean?
THE FRENCH WAS THERE
Drew Lawson
sla...@hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) writes:
re: "World's shortest railroad"
>Should the length be counted
>
>a) as plotted on a map (vertical movement doesn't count)
>b) by the length of the track (pointless diversions count)
>c) as a straight line between stations
I don't see how the length of a railroad route could be anything
other than the length of the route of the rails/railbed.
Drew "all the live-long day" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson
dr...@furrfu.com What would Brian Boitano do?
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> When I lived in Southern Cal, 1968-72, there was a ferry to Balboa
> Island in the middle of Newport Harbor -- basically just a powered
> barge. I doubt it went 400 feet.
My memory of the Cumberland City Ferry, Cumberland City, Tennessee,
was that the river was only about 400 feet wide at that point, but
my memory may be faulty, been 33 years since I last saw that ferry.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
--
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the
chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony
road-makers run daft -- they say it is to see how
the warld was made!"
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
> from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA? Plane never really bothered
> to get very far above the bay, have no idea if route is still
> in existence having taken it on the way to the Army, not a real
> interesting topic to stay current on.
I remember taking a plane [scheduled Air Line but I don't remember
which one] from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa in 1958, which made 2
stops inbetween Fort Lauderdale and Tampa. Don't remember for
sure what the names of the airports were, but Jupiter, Mars, and
Venus stick in my mind. The plane was a Lockheed Loadstar.
Distance between center of Oakland Airport and center of San
Francisco Airport is about 55 miles. From Fort Lauderdale to
Tampa is 180 miles, but with two stops inbetween there is a
high probability that distance between two of the stops was
less than 55 miles. [Hell, I finally found a map and made
some measurements: Fort Lauderdale to Jupiter is 80 miles;
Jupiter to Venus is 75 miles, and Venus to Tampa is 85 miles.]
Well, it were a good tale until then.
Wait, I just remembered my 1956 flight from Orlando to
Gainesville. The plane [a DC-3] made stops in both Apopka
and Ocala. The Orlando Airport at that time was the old
Army Air base, just east of town, now well embedded
within city limits, and the distance from there to the
Apopka airport [now the Orlando County airport, which
doesn't make sense, because Orlando is in Orange County]
was about 22 miles.
Anthony McCafferty
<cdim...@snet.net> writes:
>Distance between center of Oakland Airport and center of San
>Francisco Airport is about 55 miles.
By road, perhaps, if you don't like long bridges. It's about ten miles as
the crow flies; you can see one from the other.
Anthony "Part-time Alamedan [1]" McCafferty
[1] Alameda, California is just north of Oakland Airport, just west of downtown
Oakland.
David Hatunen
<cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>Lon Stowell wrote:
>
>> Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
>> from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA? Plane never really bothered
>> to get very far above the bay, have no idea if route is still
>> in existence having taken it on the way to the Army, not a real
>> interesting topic to stay current on.
>
>I remember taking a plane [scheduled Air Line but I don't remember
>which one] from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa in 1958, which made 2
>stops inbetween Fort Lauderdale and Tampa. Don't remember for
>sure what the names of the airports were, but Jupiter, Mars, and
>Venus stick in my mind. The plane was a Lockheed Loadstar.
>
>Distance between center of Oakland Airport and center of San
>Francisco Airport is about 55 miles.
Excuse me??? You can damn near spit from one to the other. I believe
it's less than ten miles. If I coudl find by bay Area map I'd scale it
for you.
Bob Ward
McCafferty) wrote:
>-:In article <3C689776...@snet.net>, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
>-:<cdim...@snet.net> writes:
>-:
>-:>Distance between center of Oakland Airport and center of San
>-:>Francisco Airport is about 55 miles.
>-:
>-: By road, perhaps, if you don't like long bridges. It's about ten miles as
>-:the crow flies; you can see one from the other.
>-:
>-:Anthony "Part-time Alamedan [1]" McCafferty
>-:
>-:[1] Alameda, California is just north of Oakland Airport, just west of downtown
>-:Oakland.
>-:
According to Microsoft Streets and Trips, it's approximately 11.5
miles from the center of one to the center of the other, and 31.9
miles if you drive across the bridge.
.
Rob Poole
bob....@verizon.net says...[snip stuff about Angels Flight railway]
Lots of urban oriented funicular fun at
<url:http://www.p.lodz.pl/I35/personal/jw37/urbtr/funicul-eng.html>
with a few examples shorter than the Angels 'Shortest Railway in
the World' Flight in Los Angeles. The shortest funicular still
open in the above list is the St Nicholas Cliff, Scarborough, UK
at 31m
Rob.
--
Rob Poole, Computer Technician, Civil Engineering, Aston Uni
R.H....@aston.ac.uk Tel 0121 359 3611 x4385
<http://www.aston.ac.uk/~poolerh> Pager 07669 007423
Alan Follett
> According to an exhibit in the Adirondack Museum, Blue Mountain Lake,
> NY, the shortest full-gauge railroad line in the world was the stretch
> of railroad track along the Marian River, from Raquette Lake to
> <mumble> Lake, part of the Eckert Chain connected to Blue Mountain
> Lake, which was less than one mile long. When the Point Pleasant
> Hotel was built (which was supposed to be the first major hotel with
> electric lighting), visitors could take the train from New York City
> to Raquette Lake, ride a ferry to the Marian River landing, change to
> the one mile train ride to the next lake, then board a lake steamer
> that would take the passengers to the hotel at Blue Mountain Lake.
>
> This was all about 1900-1910 (L).
>
That'd be the Marion River Carry Railroad, which operated from 1899 to
1929; your <mumble> Lake turns out to have been Utowana Lake. See
about one-third of the way down the page on
http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/mrr2.html.
Alan "demonstrating once again that there is no subject too obscure to
find its enthusiast" Follett
Daniel Ucko
wrote:
You know, I love your name. It has a certain Russ Meyer
Slash-Betty-slash! air about it.
But your e-mail addy is clearly fake, so...plonk.
Daniel 'intolerant' Ucko
--
'Ahh, too busy to do our homework, for a claim you pulled unwashed
from your gerbil hole.'
- Lon Stowell explains 'burden of proof' again on AFU.
* I will arbitrarily killfile posters without a real e-mail address *
Alan Follett
> Simon Slavin) writes:
>> Should the length be counted
>> a) as plotted on a map (vertical movement
>> doesn't count)
>> b) by the length of the track (pointless
>> diversions count)
>> c) as a straight line between stations
> I don't see how the length of a railroad
> route could be anything other than the
> length of the route of the rails/railbed.
Perhaps; I believe mileposts on main-line North American railways are
always set on exactly that principle. However, there we're dealing with
a line segment which may be hundreds of miles in length, with a maximum
grade of, at worst, a few percent over limited sections of the line. On
a funicular the definitional problem is more acute; the entire line may
be on something like a 35-degree slope, so that the difference between
track length and plan distance is proportionally much greater.
Alan "and a tip of the hat to Dubuque's Fenelon Place Elevator, which
claims 296 feet" Follett
Lon Stowell
David Hatunen <hat...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 04:17:15 GMT, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
><cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>>Lon Stowell wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a scheduled air flight shorter than the old '60's route
>>> from Oakland CA, to San Fran, CA? Plane never really bothered
>>> to get very far above the bay, have no idea if route is still
>>> in existence having taken it on the way to the Army, not a real
>>> interesting topic to stay current on.
>>
>>I remember taking a plane [scheduled Air Line but I don't remember
>>which one] from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa in 1958, which made 2
>>stops inbetween Fort Lauderdale and Tampa. Don't remember for
>>sure what the names of the airports were, but Jupiter, Mars, and
>>Venus stick in my mind. The plane was a Lockheed Loadstar.
>>
>>Distance between center of Oakland Airport and center of San
>>Francisco Airport is about 55 miles.
>
>Excuse me??? You can damn near spit from one to the other. I believe
>it's less than ten miles. If I coudl find by bay Area map I'd scale it
>for you.
Mapquest refuses to show both at once with sufficient detail
to locate the airport. Surprisingly, eyeballing a Rand McNally
it almost looks like between 10-11 miles from runway to runway.
Woulda guessed a bit shorter. Good eyes dude.
--
My office isn't cluttered. I prefer to think of it as the
Hashed Office with Large Pile Support.
Ron Knight
> There is a scheduled air service from Westray to Papa Westray in Orkney,
> a distance of 3 km (2 miles) between airfields covered in two minutes.
> --
> Joe Boswell * If I cannot be free, I'll be cheap
I remember seeing the listing of this flight in the Guinness Book of
World Records as the shortest scheduled flight many years ago; don't
know whether it is still the record-holder in current editions. But I
remember reading it while I was a Peace Corps Volunteer on Carriacou,
one of the Grenadines between Grenada and St. Vincent in the West
Indies. I remember when I read this in the Guinness book noting that
the flight from Carriacou to nearby Union Island was in fact shorter,
and made up my mind to inform the Guinness people of that. But I
never got around to it.
I remember that the Westray/Papa Westray listing in Guinness stated
that in a good wind the flight would be shorter than its scheduled
time. I don't recall whether the two minutes you list above is the
scheduled time or the shorter actual time sometimes achieved.
Carriacou-Union Island flights (on a different airline from the one in
service in my PCV days) are now *scheduled* at either 5 or 10 minutes,
depending on the airline
(http://www.grenadines.net/carriacou/aoc.htm), but actual flight time
in good weather is shorter than that listed in Guinness for
Westray-Papa Westray, or at least it was 1977-1982, when I was there.
Carriacou is part of the nation of Grenada, Carriacou and Petite
Martinique, while Union Island is part of the nation of St Vincent and
the Grenadines, so the Carriacou/Union Island flight may well be the
shortest *international* scheduled flight, even if others mentioned on
this thread are shorter flights.
Also interesting to note is that the line of latitude chosen to
separate the Grenada Grenadines from the St Vincent Grenadines
actually cuts across the northernmost tip of Carriacou; about the last
80 feet of a little rocky point on the north of Carriacou technically
belongs to St Vincent. So it is possible to walk from Grenada to St
Vincent. Next time you're on Carriacou, there's a bar bet for you.
Take it easy,
Ron Knight
Lee Ayrton
On or about Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Alan Follett of AFol...@webtv.net wrote:
> > I don't see how the length of a railroad
> > route could be anything other than the
> > length of the route of the rails/railbed.
>
> Perhaps; I believe mileposts on main-line North American railways are
> always set on exactly that principle. However, there we're dealing with
Apparently there are no gandy dancers among us.
I cannot speak definitely about mileposts and other RR signage, but for
mapping purposes railroads in the eastern USofA assumed a flat plane.[1]
My hazy recollection is that the mileposts were set where they fit, not
where they were accurate. They were visual references, not monumentation.
For mapping, a centerline was established (that might or might not
coincide with the centerline of a track, for instance a double track
line), an endpoint was assigned a value of 0, and all mapable features[2]
were referenced from this centerline as an offset (in feet) from CL
Station [hundreds]+[feet].[decimals][3] all the way to the end of the
line, dozens or hundreds of miles away. No adjustments in the centerline
stationing were made vertical curves or grade changes. For horizontal
curves the stations ran with the arc length of the centerline.
My guess is that such variables to rail length were ignorably trivial in
the mind of a section boss who was more concerned with individual rails
changing length with temperature.
Lee "Ballast" Ayrton
[1] There may have been adjustments to account for the errors inherent
in mapping an assumed plane on a sphere, but I don't recall now what they
may have been.
[2] Property boundary lines, culverts, bridges, line shacks, track,
switches, buildings, towers, if it was within or near the ROW, it was
mapped. The RR maps I worked from were all drawn in the 1880s and were
impressively accurate. From a draftsman's point of view, the linework was
impeccable and the lettering astonishingly uniform from man to man, as
though they were all drawn by a single hand. The lettering was done by
hand, not by Leroy set. I'd love to have one of those sheets, just to
hang on my wall.
[3] A map notation might look like this: 2,781+54.39' for say, the
beginning of a horizontal curve. This would be 278,154.39' (or 52 Merkin
miles and 3,584.39') from the 0+00 point on the line.
Anthony McCafferty
writes:
>When I was a kid growing up in Toronto, "everybody" knew that the ferry
>ride in the West(?) Channel to Toronto Island Airport was the shortest
>regular scheduled ferry ride in the world (400 feet for $4!),
I was wondering if any of our Finnish contingent might know if the Uunisaari
ferry in Helsinki is regular and scheduled? It looks potentially shorter on a
map.
Anthony "Just took two ferry trips today" McCafferty
Richard Casady
Stowell) wrote:
>
there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
I rode that once. They used Boeing Vertols, the civilian version of
the Chinook.
Casady
Moe Trin
<476e757e...@news.east.earthlink.net>, Richard Casady wrote:
>there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
>over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
also served the Wall Street Heliport, LaGuardia, Newark, and Morristown,
New Jersey. They operated from 1952 to 1979. The Pan Am Metroport
(airport code 6N4) is closed now (related to the crash there in 1977).
>I rode that once. They used Boeing Vertols, the civilian version of
>the Chinook.
They started with Sikorsky S55s (military version was the H-19), then
went to Vertol "V-44"s which was the civil version of the Piasecki H-21
"Flying Banana", then went to the Vertol 107 which was the civil version
of the CH-46 (about half the size of the CH-47) before going to the
Sikorsky S-61L they had when the went bankrupt. The Vertol 107 has
a tricycle gear[1], 51 foot diameter rotors, and a max gross weight of
24000 pounds. The Chinook has a quadracycle gear[2], 60 foot rotors,
an EMPTY weight around 23000 pounds, and grosses out around 50000.
The Marine CH-46 could carry 33 in a troop transport configuration,
while the Army CH-47 could do 55 in the same duty. Civil versions would
obviously carry less in slightly more comfort. The civil version of
the CH-47 is the model 234, though not many of them were sold.
Old guy
[1] two "main" gear in short sponsons at rear, one "nose" gear under
cockpit - all with dual tires.
[2] dual fixed gear at the front of each sponson [which extends nearly
the full length of fuselage], two steerable single tire at the rear of
each sponson - i.e. one gear at each corner.
David Scheidt
:On 10 Feb 2002 00:26:49 GMT, lsto...@lenny.sfrn.dnai.com (Lon
:Stowell) wrote:
:Casady
Wow. Ed Rice has been out done!
Richard Casady
(Moe Trin) wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.folklore.urban, in article
><476e757e...@news.east.earthlink.net>, Richard Casady wrote:
>
>>there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
>>over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
>
>>I rode that once. They used Boeing Vertols, the civilian version of
>>the Chinook.i
. All I got right was the 'Vertol' part. It has been almost forty
years, and there is some similarity. Naturally, I can't remember just
how big it was, I just remembered the shape.
>
>They started with Sikorsky S55s (military version was the H-19), then
>went to Vertol "V-44"s which was the civil version of the Piasecki H-21
>"Flying Banana", then went to the Vertol 107 which was the civil version
>of the CH-46 (about half the size of the CH-47) before going to the
>Sikorsky S-61L they had when the went bankrupt. The Vertol 107 has
>a tricycle gear[1], 51 foot diameter rotors, and a max gross weight of
>24000 pounds. The Chinook has a quadracycle gear[2], 60 foot rotors,
>an EMPTY weight around 23000 pounds, and grosses out around 50000.
>The Marine CH-46 could carry 33 in a troop transport configuration,
>while the Army CH-47 could do 55 in the same duty. Civil versions would
>obviously carry less in slightly more comfort. The civil version of
>the CH-47 is the model 234, though not many of them were sold.
>
> Old guy
>
>[1] two "main" gear in short sponsons at rear, one "nose" gear under
>cockpit - all with dual tires.
>[2] dual fixed gear at the front of each sponson [which extends nearly
>the full length of fuselage], two steerable single tire at the rear of
>each sponson - i.e. one gear at each corner.
You do know a lot about helocopters.
Casady
TMOliver
"Richard Casady" <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote ...
kept on being "Idle-a-While" to early travelers) to the lower Eastside
(close to the now restored Fulton St.?) one day in the 70s. My other
skivvilian helo hop also involved an airline foul up, 1981 or so, British
Caledonian, IAH to Gatwick, an hour late, then what I recall as a Sikorsky
S-61 (single engine, like the USCG birds, not the much larger twin used by
the USN and the FAA - as the Sea King?) to try to make a flight to Edinburgh
(a ghastly British Airways Vickers Viscount (dirty and with a slovenly cabin
crew) already "boneyarded by US carriers. Back then, full fare Economy pax
were still well treated in international service.
My flights in "Flying Whores" (no visible means of support) during USN
active and reserve service were far more numerous, occasionally thrilling,
and on occasion causative agents of liquefaction of the lower bowel...
Being lowered (swaying on a slender wire through a hole in the helo's floor)
to the afterdeck of a GEARING class destroyer (preFRAM, no DASH deck for
easy helo transfers), a very small steel space between the old Depth Charge
racks and the gunhouse (no, not a turret, and that's another lengthy
explanation) with barrels of the "Mount 53" the after pair of 5"/38s, swung
out on the beam, was frightening.
TM "Still awakes at 0330 of the morn, no longer to relieve the watch, now to
relieve the bladder." Oliver
Nasti J
>Distance between center of Oakland Airport and center of San
>Francisco Airport is about 55 miles
Ground route via the San Mateo Bridge is a little over 30mi. As-the-
crow-flies, it's probably only 12-15 miles.
There used to be a water taxi that would take pedestrians and
bicyclers across the Estuary from Alameda to Oakland and back - not
sure of the distance, but it was a 5-minute ride. The City of Alameda
Transportation Commission has plans to implement an Estuary Water
Shuttle (approx 2008-2009).
TMOliver
"Nasti J" <njgi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:50e60378-c7bf-4911...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
The Texas Dept. of Transpiration free ferry from Aransas Pass (on the
mainland) to Port Aransas (Mustang Island) looks to be less than 500 yards
across the narrow deep water channel dredged for deep drafts - mostly
tankers - to make a dogleg entrance to Corpus Christi (or NAVSTA Ingleside).
TM "Less of a wait than for the swinging bridge at Matagorda" Oliver
Paul Tomblin
>The Texas Dept. of Transpiration free ferry from Aransas Pass (on the
>mainland) to Port Aransas (Mustang Island) looks to be less than 500 yards
>across the narrow deep water channel dredged for deep drafts - mostly
>tankers - to make a dogleg entrance to Corpus Christi (or NAVSTA Ingleside).
http://news.galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?tool=print&ewcd=21afe45b7e388b88
Welcome aboard the Kemah Boardwalk Shuttle, a passenger ferry that lugs
visitors and employees from parking lots under the state Highway 146
bridge to the bayside attraction.
It’s a short trip, just 65 feet — that’s .01 nautical miles for the
mariners among you.
The boat itself is 26 feet long.
That could make the shuttle the shortest ferry ride in the world.
For a time, the Guinness Record Book listed the 396-foot ferry ride
connecting Toronto City Centre Airport with the mainland as the world’s
shortest regular ferry route. And while the ferry trip is not listed in
recent editions of the book, Canadian airport officials still brag about
the title.
For the record, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s
Bureau of Transportation Statistics, the shortest ferry route in the
United States is 729 feet connecting Bemus Point, N.Y., with Stow, N.Y.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
I forsee one of those "open your wallet and repeat after me,
_help yourself_" moments in your local friendly workshop.
-- Tanuki
Hatunen
United Airlines used to have an SFO-OAK scheduled flight. It was
really just the flight to get the plane from SFO to OAK, but you
could book it, and it was worth the minimum 750 air miles.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Hatunen
ptomblin...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>In a previous article, "TMOliver" <tmoliv...@hot.rr.comFIX> said:
>>The Texas Dept. of Transpiration free ferry from Aransas Pass (on the
>>mainland) to Port Aransas (Mustang Island) looks to be less than 500 yards
>>across the narrow deep water channel dredged for deep drafts - mostly
>>tankers - to make a dogleg entrance to Corpus Christi (or NAVSTA Ingleside).
>
>http://news.galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?tool=print&ewcd=21afe45b7e388b88
>
>Welcome aboard the Kemah Boardwalk Shuttle, a passenger ferry that lugs
>visitors and employees from parking lots under the state Highway 146
>bridge to the bayside attraction.
>
>It’s a short trip, just 65 feet — that’s .01 nautical miles for the
>mariners among you.
>
>The boat itself is 26 feet long.
>
>That could make the shuttle the shortest ferry ride in the world.
>
>For a time, the Guinness Record Book listed the 396-foot ferry ride
>connecting Toronto City Centre Airport with the mainland as the world’s
>shortest regular ferry route. And while the ferry trip is not listed in
>recent editions of the book, Canadian airport officials still brag about
>the title.
>
>For the record, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s
>Bureau of Transportation Statistics, the shortest ferry route in the
>United States is 729 feet connecting Bemus Point, N.Y., with Stow, N.Y.
There once were, and still are, many ferries that would take you
across a narrow stream or channel. I've been on a short ferry at
the south end of Lake Champlain and there is one I've used in the
Sacramento Delta in California. But these are not "scheduled' in
any way and are barely big enough for one or two cars,
Richard Casady
>There once were, and still are, many ferries that would take you
>across a narrow stream or channel. I've been on a short ferry at
>the south end of Lake Champlain and there is one I've used in the
>Sacramento Delta in California. But these are not "scheduled' in
>any way and are barely big enough for one or two cars,
I remember a ferry that carried two cars, and was powered with a
handwheel. It was on a cable.
Casady
Ralph Jones
[snip]
>
>United Airlines used to have an SFO-OAK scheduled flight. It was
>really just the flight to get the plane from SFO to OAK, but you
>could book it, and it was worth the minimum 750 air miles.
Island Airways of Port Clinton OH used to fly to the cluster of resort
and wine-growing islands off the south shore of Lake Erie, with leg
lengths ranging from 2 to 11 miles. They used Ford Trimotors into the
1980s, and a lot of aviation enthusiasts traveled there just for the
ride. Other operators at Port Clinton still provide the same service
in more contemporary aircraft.
rj
Lon Stowell
Back in June of 1962, there was an airline that flew from Butte Montana
down to Oakland for one stop, then the same aircraft flew across the bay
at pretty low altitude to San Francisco airport. 'twas a fairly large
aircraft is about all I can recall...being traumatized by being on the
way to Fort Ord at the time.
James
> In a previous article, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> said:
>
> >The Texas Dept. of Transpiration free ferry from Aransas Pass (on the
> >mainland) to Port Aransas (Mustang Island) looks to be less than 500 yards
> >across the narrow deep water channel dredged for deep drafts - mostly
> >tankers - to make a dogleg entrance to Corpus Christi (or NAVSTA Ingleside).
>
>
> Welcome aboard the Kemah Boardwalk Shuttle, a passenger ferry that lugs
> visitors and employees from parking lots under the state Highway 146
> bridge to the bayside attraction.
>
> mariners among you.
>
> The boat itself is 26 feet long.
>
> That could make the shuttle the shortest ferry ride in the world.
>
> For a time, the Guinness Record Book listed the 396-foot ferry ride
> connecting Toronto City Centre Airport with the mainland as the world's
> shortest regular ferry route. And while the ferry trip is not listed in
> recent editions of the book, Canadian airport officials still brag about
> the title.
The Toronto Island airport ferry has been a hot potato for a while.
The people who live on the island have been lobbying for years to get
the island airport shutdown. It is used by private planes and for some
small turboprop commuter runs to Ottawa and Montreal (Dash 7/8)
There was a plan by the previous city council to build a bridge to the
airport at the site of the ferry to improve access and eliminate the
ferry. The islanders fought hard against it thinking it would lead to
an increase in flights. There are no bridges to the island only
ferries, and the islanders like the isolation. But the airport has
been there longer than the current residents, though some of the
residents inherited their lease arrangements from their parents etc.
The current mayor had this as one of his campaign issues and will not
reconsider. The port authority, a federal institution thought it
didn't need the city's permission. Many lawyers fought it out.
James "I'm not a ferry, I would like to build bridges" Linn
Moe Trin
<476ab44a$0$10994$4c36...@roadrunner.com>, TMOliver wrote:
>A screw up by AA once put me on a Vertol 107 from JFK (which for many years
>kept on being "Idle-a-While" to early travelers) to the lower Eastside
>(close to the now restored Fulton St.?) one day in the 70s.
There are a slew of heliports in New York City - the three closest to
Fulton St. being 111 Wall Street, and 1 Police Plaza (both listed as
"private"), and Port Authority Downtown (also called the Wall Street
Heliport) on Pier 6 which is the one NYA was flying to - airport code JRB
and still in use.
>My other skivvilian helo hop also involved an airline foul up, 1981 or
>so, British Caledonian, IAH to Gatwick, an hour late, then what I recall
>as a Sikorsky S-61 (single engine, like the USCG birds, not the much
>larger twin used by the USN and the FAA - as the Sea King?) to try to
>make a flight to Edinburgh (a ghastly British Airways Vickers Viscount
>(dirty and with a slovenly cabin crew) already "boneyarded by US carriers.
ALL Sikossky S-61 (there were only three types - the S-61, S-61N and S-61L
with the L lacking the amphibious capability) were twin engine (two GE
CT-58s ~1500 SHP). The S-61 was the naval SH-3 Sea King, while the L and
N were stretched. A fleet listing from 1981 says BCal had 3 helicopters,
two S-61Ns and a S-76A, and worked with British Airways Helicopters who
had 24 S-61Ns, 4 S-76As, and one each AB 206A Jet Ranger and Bell 212 (a
civil version of the UH-1N), though none of the BAH copters were used
in the London area. I think you are referring to the HH-52, and the civil
version was the S-62 which is single engine, about 50 were built. Los
Angeles Helicopters used them, as well as SFO Helicopters and some
Japanese operator, but I'm not aware of any European operators.
As for the Viscount, only two airline purchasers in the US - Capital
(which merged into United) and Continental - they left the fleets by
the mid 60s, killed off by the real jets, just like the Electra 188.
There were several corporate Viscounts - US Steel had one. BA still
listed 10 on the 1981 fleet list, as did British Midland, used mainly
into smaller airports that couldn't support jets. But then, the Viscount
did enter service in 1953 and was in production until 1963 (448 built).
Old guy
Leroy
grusl
> Richard Casady wrote:
> > Stowell) wrote:
>
> > there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
> > over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
>
> > I rode that once. They used Boeing Vertols, the civilian version of
> > the Chinook.
>
> > Casady
>
> Here's a real time view of JFK traffic, including helicopters.
>
http://tracker.flightview.com/htNYNJPA/CurrentTrafficMap.asp?ap=JFK
seems to have more detail.
Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore
Leroy
But does not update every few seconds like http://www4.passur.com/jfk.html
Also no altitude when clickin on items, nor adjustable range, nor
selectable time of day.
grusl
"Leroy" <leroy@ addy.invalid> wrote in message
news:kshbj.643$El5...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> grusl wrote:
>> On Dec 22, 9:59 am, "Leroy" <leroy@ addy.invalid> wrote:
>>> Richard Casady wrote:
>>>> On 10 Feb 2002 00:26:49 GMT, lstow...@lenny.sfrn.dnai.com (Lon
>>>> Stowell) wrote:
>>>
>>>> there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
>>>> over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
>>>
>>>> I rode that once. They used Boeing Vertols, the civilian version of
>>>> the Chinook.
>>>
>>>> Casady
>>>
>>> Here's a real time view of JFK traffic, including helicopters.
>>>
>>
>> http://tracker.flightview.com/htNYNJPA/CurrentTrafficMap.asp?ap=JFK
>> seems to have more detail.
>
> But does not update every few seconds
> selectable time of day.
>
The selectable time of day seems to be a somewhat random feature: it gave me
Dec. 31's pattern but not yesterday's.
And Passur doesn't identify flights.
However, I should have said "different detail", not "more detail".
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
(Moe Trin) wrote:
> The Marine CH-46 could carry 33 in a troop transport configuration,
> while the Army CH-47 could do 55 in the same duty. Civil versions would
> obviously carry less in slightly more comfort. The civil version of
> the CH-47 is the model 234, though not many of them were sold.
Note that carrying 33 or 55 in troop transport configuration means
carrying the person and all the attendant equipment, weapons, and so
on. This is not the same as carrying 33 or 55 business people.
Mary "We're talking real weight here"
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my new blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Matt Palmer
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:13:45 -0600, ibup...@painkiller.example.tld
> (Moe Trin) wrote:
>
>> The Marine CH-46 could carry 33 in a troop transport configuration,
>> while the Army CH-47 could do 55 in the same duty. Civil versions would
>> obviously carry less in slightly more comfort. The civil version of
>> the CH-47 is the model 234, though not many of them were sold.
>
> Note that carrying 33 or 55 in troop transport configuration means
> carrying the person and all the attendant equipment, weapons, and so
> on. This is not the same as carrying 33 or 55 business people.
On the other hand, the soldiers don't need plush, reclining seats and a
beverage service.
- Matt
Moe Trin
<jso0n3dp6399v9qsa...@4ax.com>, Reunite Gondwanaland
(Mary Shafer) wrote:
Holiday Season Greetings.
>(Moe Trin) wrote:
>
>> The Marine CH-46 could carry 33 in a troop transport configuration,
>> while the Army CH-47 could do 55 in the same duty. Civil versions
>> would obviously carry less in slightly more comfort.
>Note that carrying 33 or 55 in troop transport configuration means
>carrying the person and all the attendant equipment, weapons, and so
>on. This is not the same as carrying 33 or 55 business people.
I'd certainly agree from a weight standard, but the military packs
'em in a little more densely than the FAA would ever dream of allowing.
I recall my first flight from Mildenhall to Wheelus in 1960 on a USAF
C-130A, with two aisles, and web seats on both sides of each one. If you
had to hit the can, you _had_ to be desperate, as there was no room to
walk. I also had a few trips in Nam, where they'd herd 6 or 7 people
at a time - sit down, and the crew chief clips a cargo strap from one
side of the bird to the other (that's your seat belt), before herding
in the next rows. (I've no idea how many were on-board - I tried not to
think about that.) What do you mean evacuate in 60 seconds using half
the exits??? (Excluding the tail ramp which is where they would lash
the baggage down, the cabin is 41.3 x 10.2 feet - 92 troops, it says.)
>Mary "We're talking real weight here"
Can't find a copy of Janes, but one website
(http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-25547.html) says
the CH-46 cabin as 7.4 x 1.8 x 1.8 meters (24.3 feet x 71 inches)
which might be 11 rows of 3 at 26.5 inch pitch. Aisle? What aisle?
That's even worse than a DC-3/C-47 (30 feet x 92 inch). Another
website (http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-helo-ch47.htm) lists the CH-47 cabin
as 9.20m L x 2.26m W x 1.95m H (30.18 feet by 77 inches).
>We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
Understand 'Sofia' is at Dryden now.
Old guy
Geoff Miller
Somebody (attributions lost in the tangle) wrote:
> there used to be New York Helocopter Airways, from the PANAM bldg
> over Grand C4ntral Station, to JFK airport.
> I rode that once. They used Boeing Vertols, the civilian version of
> the Chinook.
The Boeing-Vertol 107 as used by New York Airways is the civilian
version of the CH-46 Sea Knight, a Navy/Marine Corps helicopter.
The Army's CH-47 Chinook is a different (and larger) aircraft.
They share the same tandem-rotor configuration, but if you saw one
of each parked next to each other, you'd notice how different they
really are.
Geoff
--
"One notes, as a matter of sociology, that Islam in
its current incarnation seems to offer a larger pool
of stupid angry men than other world religions."
-- National Review
greymaus
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:13:45 -0600, ibup...@painkiller.example.tld
> (Moe Trin) wrote:
>
>> The Marine CH-46 could carry 33 in a troop transport configuration,
>> while the Army CH-47 could do 55 in the same duty. Civil versions would
>> obviously carry less in slightly more comfort. The civil version of
>> the CH-47 is the model 234, though not many of them were sold.
>
> Note that carrying 33 or 55 in troop transport configuration means
> carrying the person and all the attendant equipment, weapons, and so
> on. This is not the same as carrying 33 or 55 business people.
>
> Mary "We're talking real weight here"
For Ireland, famously demonstrated in their first modern action, UN
service in Katanga back when?? , flown in by an US aircraft,
organized by the Irish Army, landed at an airfield held by `troops`
of dubious loyalty, so the officer in charge ordered rifles
(Lee-Enfield .303s) to be loaded, non-com pointed out that the
ammunition was on another aircraft.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
John Francis
Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>United Airlines used to have an SFO-OAK scheduled flight. It was
>really just the flight to get the plane from SFO to OAK, but you
>could book it, and it was worth the minimum 750 air miles.
The shortest-duration scheduled flights I can find all have a duration
of two minutes. These are:
HB flights between PGM and KEB
LOG " " WRY " PPW
There are a few flights in the OAG database with a scheduled duration
of 1 minute, but thse are mostly pseudo-flights between BSL and MLH
(the same physical airport, but with two different airport codes -
BSL in Switzerland, and MLH in France).
There are also flights with a scheduled duration of 0 minutes, but as
far as I can tell most of these are due to mistakes in the data.
Paul Tomblin
>The shortest-duration scheduled flights I can find all have a duration
>of two minutes. These are:
>
> HB flights between PGM and KEB
> LOG " " WRY " PPW
There used to be BEA scheduled jet service between two islands in the
Orkneys that was in the Guiness Book as the shortest scheduled jet
service. You could see each runway from the other.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"He's overweight, uninformed, and litigious. That's an American
hat-trick" - Lewis Black
John Francis
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
>In a previous article, jo...@panix.com (John Francis) said:
>>The shortest-duration scheduled flights I can find all have a duration
>>of two minutes. These are:
>>
>> HB flights between PGM and KEB
>> LOG " " WRY " PPW
>
>There used to be BEA scheduled jet service between two islands in the
>Orkneys that was in the Guiness Book as the shortest scheduled jet
>service. You could see each runway from the other.
That's probably the WRY(Westray) to PPW(Papa Westray) service given above;
those appear to be the closest two airports in the Orkneys. The service is
now operated by Loganair using a Britten-Norman Islander, not jet aircraft.
British Airways no longer seem to offer inter-island flights in the Orkneys.
They have flights between Aberdeen, Inverness or the Shetlands and Kirkwall,
but no flights from Kirkwall to other island airports.
Nick Spalding
on Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:58:13 +0000 (UTC):
> In article <fl618f$bkk$1...@xen1.xcski.com>,
> Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
> >In a previous article, jo...@panix.com (John Francis) said:
> >>The shortest-duration scheduled flights I can find all have a duration
> >>of two minutes. These are:
> >>
> >> HB flights between PGM and KEB
> >> LOG " " WRY " PPW
> >
> >There used to be BEA scheduled jet service between two islands in the
> >Orkneys that was in the Guiness Book as the shortest scheduled jet
> >service. You could see each runway from the other.
>
> That's probably the WRY(Westray) to PPW(Papa Westray) service given above;
> those appear to be the closest two airports in the Orkneys. The service is
> now operated by Loganair using a Britten-Norman Islander, not jet aircraft.
Is one of those airports in fact the beach, or is that somewhere in the
Hebrides?
> British Airways no longer seem to offer inter-island flights in the Orkneys.
> They have flights between Aberdeen, Inverness or the Shetlands and Kirkwall,
> but no flights from Kirkwall to other island airports.
--
Nick Spalding
John Francis
Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote:
>John Francis wrote, in <fl6ftl$oh7$1...@reader2.panix.com>
> on Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:58:13 +0000 (UTC):
>
>> In article <fl618f$bkk$1...@xen1.xcski.com>,
>> Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> >In a previous article, jo...@panix.com (John Francis) said:
>> >>The shortest-duration scheduled flights I can find all have a duration
>> >>of two minutes. These are:
>> >>
>> >> HB flights between PGM and KEB
>> >> LOG " " WRY " PPW
>> >
>> >There used to be BEA scheduled jet service between two islands in the
>> >Orkneys that was in the Guiness Book as the shortest scheduled jet
>> >service. You could see each runway from the other.
>>
>> That's probably the WRY(Westray) to PPW(Papa Westray) service given above;
>> those appear to be the closest two airports in the Orkneys. The service is
>> now operated by Loganair using a Britten-Norman Islander, not jet aircraft.
>
>Is one of those airports in fact the beach, or is that somewhere in the
>Hebrides?
I have no first-hand experience (and, based on your domain, you're probably
a lot closer to the Hebrides than I am), but 30 seconds with Google suggests
that the airport you are looking for is Barra, in the Hebrides:
Nick Spalding
on Sun, 30 Dec 2007 03:41:41 +0000 (UTC):
> In article <jshdn31vo997b6e31...@4ax.com>,
> Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >John Francis wrote, in <fl6ftl$oh7$1...@reader2.panix.com>
> > on Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:58:13 +0000 (UTC):
> >
> >> That's probably the WRY(Westray) to PPW(Papa Westray) service given above;
> >> those appear to be the closest two airports in the Orkneys. The service is
> >> now operated by Loganair using a Britten-Norman Islander, not jet aircraft.
> >
> >Is one of those airports in fact the beach, or is that somewhere in the
> >Hebrides?
>
> I have no first-hand experience (and, based on your domain, you're probably
> a lot closer to the Hebrides than I am), but 30 seconds with Google suggests
> that the airport you are looking for is Barra, in the Hebrides:
>
> http://www.hial.co.uk/barra-airport.html
That's the one. Thanks.
--
Nick Spalding
Paul Tomblin
Well, I can see why they use the beach - it's huge:
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Software planning seems to be based on denying plausibility.
-- Graham Reed
Nick Spalding
on Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:46:24 +0000 (UTC):
> In a previous article, jo...@panix.com (John Francis) said:
> >In article <jshdn31vo997b6e31...@4ax.com>,
> >Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >>Is one of those airports in fact the beach, or is that somewhere in the
> >>Hebrides?
> >
> >I have no first-hand experience (and, based on your domain, you're probably
> >a lot closer to the Hebrides than I am), but 30 seconds with Google suggests
> >that the airport you are looking for is Barra, in the Hebrides:
> >
> > http://www.hial.co.uk/barra-airport.html
>
> Well, I can see why they use the beach - it's huge:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=N+57.0227777777776+W+7.44305555555553&ie=UTF8&ll=57.025084,-7.439032&spn=0.029617,0.062914&t=h&z=14&iwloc=addr&om=1
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2jm5hs
There isn't anywhere else on the island that's even flattish. The area
back of the beach is probably sand dunes.
--
Nick Spalding