Draft avoidance
William L. Gembala
Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
war?
snopes
William L. Gembala <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
> war?
This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
(They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
- snopes
rosa nina williams
"William L. Gembala" <gem...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>war?
Well, my parents tell me that I myself was part of a successful effort
for my father to avoid the draft. (Not from cowardice, but from a
fundamental disagreement with the war itself. My parents were on a
different front line - the anti-Vietnam-War movement - and they, too,
were risking bullets, a la Kent State. Flames regarding their
viewpoints should be emailed NOT posted, and will likely be ignored.)
ANYhow, they also told me about a friend of theirs, which is, I think,
sufficiently friend-of-a-friendish. He supposedly shared their
vehement anti-Vietnam-War sentiments, to the point where he told the
draft board,
"You can give me a gun, but /I'll/ decide where I point it."
Supposedly he was immediately classified 4F.
--April "You can give me a UL, but I'll decide where I send it."
John Stevens
William L. Gembala (gem...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
: war?
As a child I was told (by older children) that walking around barefoot
would eventually give you flat feet and flat feet was an automatic 4F on
your draft classification.
John "Can I put my shoes on now?" Stevens
Jack Granowski
> >war?
>
> for my father to avoid the draft. (Not from cowardice, but from a
> fundamental disagreement with the war itself. My parents were on a
> different front line - the anti-Vietnam-War movement - and they, too,
> were risking bullets, a la Kent State. Flames regarding their
> viewpoints should be emailed NOT posted, and will likely be ignored.)
>
> ANYhow, they also told me about a friend of theirs, which is, I think,
> sufficiently friend-of-a-friendish. He supposedly shared their
> vehement anti-Vietnam-War sentiments, to the point where he told the
> draft board,
>
> "You can give me a gun, but /I'll/ decide where I point it."
>
> Supposedly he was immediately classified 4F.
>
> --April "You can give me a UL, but I'll decide where I send it."
A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
Jack
brian jones
> A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
> fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
> that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
That's an interesting reversal of the story in Spiegelman's "Maus", a
supposedly true story, wherein the author's father *starved* himself
whenever it came time to go before his draft board.
Brian "I'd have to starve to lose enough to be accepted" Jones
--
GLEN: ...Yeah, it's a crazy world. | UCE IS U
HI: Someone oughta sell tickets. | My actual e-mail
GLEN: Sure, I'd buy one. | address does not
--Raising Arizona | contain an 'x'.
Philo
On 13 Dec 1996 19:16:56 GMT, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
> This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
>
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
>
> - snopes
>
Someone with vision bad enough to be 4F probably wouldn't be allowed
to drive, would they? ("so how did you get here today, boy?")
I'm *almost* legally blind in my left eye (correctable to 20/20 with
glasses), and I'll tell you that if I had that vision in both eyes, I
couldn't even walk around without glasses.
I'm sure people tried it, but they were probably caught.
Philo "20/60 right, 20/400 left, LT in the Navy" NLN
ph...@radix.net
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
It will take another week or 2 before this happens to all of the news
machines (he has to finish testing and order more parts).
-Erol's "it ain't broke if you can throw parts at it" Tech Support
DaveHatunen
In article <58sa38$d...@nntp1.best.com>, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
>William L. Gembala <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>> war?
>
>
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
> evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
Bad eyesight alone didn't get you out. If your vison was correctible
with lenses you were OK. If not, you had to have a doctor's excuse, so
to speak. I.e., lacking medical proof otherwise, the fact that you
found the induction center was sufficient proof of adequate eyesight.
If you had trouble with the eyechart, don't worry, glasses are provided
free by the military.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California *
* Between San Francisco and South San Francisco *
*******************************************************
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, "William L. Gembala" <gem...@u.washington.edu> said:
>Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>war?
The story I heard:
You can't be drafted if you have a felony conviction on your record.
Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. Killing a Bald Eagle, because it's
the national bird, is a felony. A bunch of people who wanted to avoid getting
drafted attempted to get caught conspiring to kill a Bald Eagle. I'm not sure
how they attempted to get caught, maybe invited the local FBI officer to their
"lets all kill a Bald Eagle club" membership drive meetings.
--
Paul Tomblin, PP-ASEL _|_ Rochester Flying Club web page:
____/___\____ http://www.servtech.com/public/
___________[o0o]___________ ptomblin/rfc.html
ptom...@xcski.com O O O
Bruce Tindall
>rosa nina williams wrote:
>> ANYhow, they also told me about a friend of theirs, which is, I think,
>> sufficiently friend-of-a-friendish. He supposedly shared their
>> vehement anti-Vietnam-War sentiments, to the point where he told the
>> draft board,
>>
>> "You can give me a gun, but /I'll/ decide where I point it."
The quotation is a variant of the last line of (if I recall correctly)
Dalton Trumbo's anti-World-War-One novel "Johnny Got His Gun", which
had a run of popularity in the (Lasnerian) 1960s-1970s. Sounds like
somebody prepended the draft-board story to it to concoct a joke or
parable.
--
Bruce Tindall tin...@panix.com
Jack Granowski
Walter Eric Johnson wrote:
>
> Jack Granowski (jack...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> :
> : A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
> : fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
> : that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
>
> person I know was drafted despite being 32 pounds overweight.
> Another was not drafted because he was 8 pounds overweight.
>
> Eric Johnson
My friend was more like 100 lbs overweight, he had to work at it for a
while, going both ways. He ate massive amounts.
Jack
Craig Snoeyenbos
> war?
There were a lot of variations on the non-standard paperwork theme.
Non-UL - Significant procedural error on the draft board's part and a good
lawyer would get you out. Failure to keep paperwork or other information
relevant to your case is a procedural error (though usually not
significant).
So there were stories of the guy who was boderline diabetic and sent them
a daily urine sample to check, or the one about sending in a change of
address carved into the side of a dead fish.
I sent them a postage due change of address every time I walked across
campus for a while - didn't think it would help, but it wouldn't hurt and
annoying them had a value of it's own.
Then there were the peanut butter stories, but they were told as stories,
no claim of voracity.
--
Craig Snoeyenbos - All usual and most unusual disclaimers apply
Q) How many drug war fanatics does it take to change a lightbulb ?
A) Changing the bulb now would send our kids the wrong message !
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, xbrian...@ajc.com (brian jones) said:
>In article <32B1BA...@ix.netcom.com>, jack...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
>> fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
>> that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
>
>supposedly true story, wherein the author's father *starved* himself
>whenever it came time to go before his draft board.
My father told me this story about his National Service. He'd heard that you
could get out for high blood pressure, and he'd also heard that drinking
coffee temporarily raises your blood pressure. So he drank cup after cup
after cup the morning he was supposed to report. He duly reported, had his
physical, and was inducted into the RAF. Several months later, he was in the
hospital for some other reason, and they took his blood pressure, and asked
him how he got into the RAF with such low blood pressure. And that, he
claims, is why he only did 6 months of his National Service.
Kat Doty
Philo wrote:
>
> I'm *almost* legally blind in my left eye (correctable to 20/20 with
> glasses), and I'll tell you that if I had that vision in both eyes, I
> couldn't even walk around without glasses.
>
> I'm sure people tried it, but they were probably caught.
>
> Philo "20/60 right, 20/400 left, LT in the Navy" NLN
I am 20/400 right eye, 20/600 left eye, correctable to around 20/40.
I was in the Navy.
And the first thing I do in the morning is grab my glasses, don't
even dare walk to the bathroom w/o 'em.
Kat "...as the proverbial bat" Doty
--
Disclaimer:this post is fat-free, sugar-free, cholesterol-free,
and possibly intelligence-free. No electrons were folded, spindled,
or otherwise mutilated in the creation of this post.
Kat Doty dbe...@ix.netcom.com kd...@tln.lib.mi.us
Larry Preuss
In article
<Pine.A41.3.95b.96121...@homer33.u.washington.edu>,
"William L. Gembala" <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
> war?
One of my friends returned from Korea only to find that his unit was to be
sent right back. This allergic man found a cat, and three nights in a row
showed up at the hospital with acute asthma. They decided he was too ill
to return to a combat zone.
Larry Preuss
--
Paul J. Stamler
rosa nina williams (rosa...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: ANYhow, they also told me about a friend of theirs, which is, I think,
: sufficiently friend-of-a-friendish. He supposedly shared their
: vehement anti-Vietnam-War sentiments, to the point where he told the
: draft board,
: "You can give me a gun, but /I'll/ decide where I point it."
Note the song written by Woody Guthrie, early 1950s (tune = "Acres of
Clams"):
"Will you point a gun for your country?"
I answered the FBI, "Yea!
I will point a gun for my country
But I won't guarantee you which way!"
Possibly your FOAP was a folkie.
On draft-avoidance ULs: I was told that anyone with two different-sized
feet was instantly classified 4-F because supplying him with
different-sized boots was more than the army's logistics command could
manage.
A few friends of mine got out via semi-standard methods. One shot himself
up with methedrine the morning of his physical. Another told them he was
homosexual; they didn't just accept his word for it, but demanded details
of what he did, and how, and with whom. Apparently the detailed questions
tripped up lots of people who weren't knowledgeable about the gay life.
One man I know decided to play a role of the not-all-there goof who
couldn't quite get anything right. He was inducted; he would always
button his shirt one button wrong, slightly (just slightly) screw up
anything he did, etc. He played it subtle; they kicked him out in 3 weeks.
I was 1-Y (later 4-F) due to back and knee problems, which unfortunately
were not made up at all, and which still occasionally give me
difficulties. I do not regret this; had I not had these problems, I was
prepared to claim conscientious objector status, as I believed then (and
believe now) that our government's effort in Viet Nam was immoral,
illegal and indefensible, and that it is the duty of patriotic Americans
to object when they believe their employees, the government, is doing wrong.
"My country -- right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When wrong,
to be put right." - Carl Schurz
Peace.
Paul
snopes
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@compass.xcski.com> wrote:
> You can't be drafted if you have a felony conviction on your record.
> Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. Killing a Bald Eagle,
> because it's the national bird, is a felony. A bunch of people who
> wanted to avoid getting drafted attempted to get caught conspiring to
> kill a Bald Eagle.
If you're willing to take a felony conviction to avoid the draft,
you don't need to do anything except refuse to be inducted.
- snopes
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Walter Eric Johnson
Jack Granowski (jack...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
: fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
: that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
Gaining weight would not be a very reliable way to do it. One
DaveHatunen
In article <E2DG...@xcski.com>, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>In a previous article, "William L. Gembala" <gem...@u.washington.edu> said:
>>war?
>
>You can't be drafted if you have a felony conviction on your record.
>Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. Killing a Bald Eagle, because it's
>the national bird, is a felony. A bunch of people who wanted to avoid getting
>how they attempted to get caught, maybe invited the local FBI officer to their
>"lets all kill a Bald Eagle club" membership drive meetings.
Or just get bsuted for major littering...
Dave "Ok, where's my old 'Alice's Restaurant' album?" Hatunen
DaveHatunen
>> war?
>
>
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> (They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
> There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
> evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
It was easy to avoid the draft by doing what I did: enlist.
Dave "RA15637051, SIR!" Hatunen
Matt Ackeret
In article <58sa38$d...@nntp1.best.com>, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
Also, what happens if they simply say *no*? (Don't show up at the draft board
when you're supposed to or whatever.)
I mean, what are they going to charge you with? Is it a felony? How long
can you be put in jail for it?
--
mat...@apple.com
snopes
Matt Ackeret <mat...@vax.area.com> wrote:
> Also, what happens if they simply say *no*? (Don't show up at the draft board
> when you're supposed to or whatever.)
> I mean, what are they going to charge you with? Is it a felony? How long
> can you be put in jail for it?
So, you never heard of Cassius Clay?
- snopes
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Duquette et al
Jack Granowski <jack...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<32B1BA...@ix.netcom.com>...
> rosa nina williams wrote:
> >
> > "William L. Gembala" <gem...@u.washington.edu> writes:
> >
> > >Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the
Vietnam
> > >war?
<snip>
> "You can give me a gun, but /I'll/ decide where I point it."
> >
> > Supposedly he was immediately classified 4F.
> >
> > --April "You can give me a UL, but I'll decide where I send it."
>
> A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
> fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
> that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
>
> Jack
>
Funny, my bf's dad did exactly the oppisite, they weighed him once and he
was a 1/2 pound heavy enough, then he stood up nice and straight and asked
them to weigh him again, and he was a 1/2 pound under weight. If there
were a draft today I think my boyfriend would be underweight without
dieting before the medical exam.
minmei
Duquette et al
John Stevens <ste...@longwood.cs.ucf.edu> wrote in article
<58sdl2$e...@longwood.cs.ucf.edu>...
> William L. Gembala (gem...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
> : Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the
Vietnam
> : war?
>
> As a child I was told (by older children) that walking around barefoot
> would eventually give you flat feet and flat feet was an automatic 4F on
> your draft classification.
>
> John "Can I put my shoes on now?" Stevens
>
>
And my Grum says honey cures cancer :-) I have gone barefoot most of my
life, including 6 pregnancies (one of which was a set of twins weighing 14
lbs total. And my arches are totally fine, my back on the other hand....
Anyway that not an automatic out anymore anyway, they check to see if your
legs are formed right, you can stand and walk straight, and the watch the
way you can duck waddle, squatting across the floor to check to see if
everything is moving right. If you can walk and waddle right they don't
care if you have flat feet.
minmei
Duquette et al
DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<hatunenE...@netcom.com>...
> In article <58sa38$d...@nntp1.best.com>, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
> >William L. Gembala <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the
Vietnam
> >> war?
> >
> > This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
> >
> > Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> > deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> > (They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
> > There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> > of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's
own
> > evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
>
> It was easy to avoid the draft by doing what I did: enlist.
>
> Dave "RA15637051, SIR!" Hatunen
Ah-ha you reminded me of one I had forgotten. When I was in AFJROTC our
Sargeant told us this one. During Vietnam he didn't want to get drafted in
the Army so he enlisted in the Air Force. A couple of months later he got
a frantic letter from his mother saying that she had gotten a nasty letter
from the draft board that if he didnt show up to be drafted he would be
arrested. And she asked what she should do about it. He told his mother
to "Let 'em come get me"
minmei
R. Wald
In article <E2DG...@xcski.com>, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>
>The story I heard:
>You can't be drafted if you have a felony conviction on your record.
>Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. Killing a Bald Eagle, because it's
>the national bird, is a felony. A bunch of people who wanted to avoid getting
>drafted attempted to get caught conspiring to kill a Bald Eagle. I'm not sure
>how they attempted to get caught, maybe invited the local FBI officer to their
>"lets all kill a Bald Eagle club" membership drive meetings.
>
a draft-dodger among other stock 60s characters. This is one of the methods
he considers, along with trying to prove himself drug addicted and having
compromising photos taken of himself with a man.
Rebecca "going to Canada is so...provincial." Wald
Pat Braden
On 13 Dec 1996 19:16:56 GMT, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
>William L. Gembala <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>> war?
>
> This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
>
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> (They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
> There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
> evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
>
> - snopes
>
>
As a friend of mine in the army used to say (back when there was a
draft), "The Army doesn't care if your blind. They'll just draft
somebody else to lead you around."
I don't know about sight but they did have a way of telling if you
were feigning deafness. It involved a skin galvanometer, a set of
head phones and a electrode hooked up to one's finger. They'd play a
tone in the earphones and administer a shock about a second later.
After doing this a few times to set up a conditioning, they'd play the
tone without a shock following and watch the galvanometer to see if it
jumped.
Pat Braden
bra...@ix.netcom.com
Duquette et al
Philo <ph...@radix.net> wrote in article
<32b7d4a8...@news1.radix.net>...
> On 13 Dec 1996 19:16:56 GMT, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
>
> > This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
> >
> > Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> > deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> >
> > - snopes
> >
>
> Someone with vision bad enough to be 4F probably wouldn't be allowed
> to drive, would they? ("so how did you get here today, boy?")
>
> I'm *almost* legally blind in my left eye (correctable to 20/20 with
> glasses), and I'll tell you that if I had that vision in both eyes, I
> couldn't even walk around without glasses.
>
> I'm sure people tried it, but they were probably caught.
>
> Philo "20/60 right, 20/400 left, LT in the Navy" NLN
>
My Grandfather told him about his vision problems when joining the Air
Force during the Korean War, they said 'they'd put him up 'real' close so
he could see all the action.' In fact he got radar duty on a horrible
little island and they fed him chicken every sunday......oh the
stories.......
minmei
Dave Wilton
DaveHatunen wrote:
> It was easy to avoid the draft by doing what I did: enlist.
I had an uncle who "avoided" WWII by going to West Point,
class of 1945. Of course, he didn't miss combat in Korea or
Vietnam so I'm not so sure that it is an effective strategy
if you really don't want to go to war.
Regarding eyesight, my right eye is 20/400+ (most eyecharts
don't measure past that). I am also colorblind (but not red/
green colorblind). Not only was I accepted into the US Army,
but they gave me an ROTC scholarship. This was the early 1980s
when the military could be fairly selective about who they took.
I imagine that draft-era requirements were even more lax. My
vision, was however, sufficiently bad to prevent me from
attending the Coast Guard Academy (another good way to avoid
combat service, although you are at risk of being shot by drug
smugglers).
--
Dave Wilton
dwi...@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/dwilton/homepage.htm
Larry Preuss
> "My country -- right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When wrong,
> to be put right." - Carl Schurz
>
> Peace.
> Paul
"My Country, Right or Left" - George Orwell
--
Joe Thompson
In article <58u7l0$c...@nntp1.best.com>, bha...@fas.harvard.edu (Barbara
Mikkelson) wrote:
> Chris Schram <sch...@mail.coos.or.us> wrote:
>
> > To sum up: a mindfuck can be very effective. <emoticon deleted>
>
> I was told we wouldn't have to do cybersex on this newsgroup.
>
> Barbara "where does the mouse go?" Mikkelson
It's not a mouse, and by the way, his name is Raggot. -- Joe
--
Joe Thompson | Cornerstone Networks | Tech support is a fine
j...@cstone.net | Charlottesville VA | art which, once mas-
Technical Support | 804.984.5600 | tered, virtually ensures
Technical Writing | http://www.cstone.net/ | loss of sanity.
Joe Thompson
> Someone with vision bad enough to be 4F probably wouldn't be allowed
> to drive, would they? ("so how did you get here today, boy?")
Doesn't anybody walk any more? -- Joe
Barbara Mikkelson
Chris Schram <sch...@mail.coos.or.us> wrote:
> To sum up: a mindfuck can be very effective. <emoticon deleted>
I was told we wouldn't have to do cybersex on this newsgroup.
Barbara "where does the mouse go?" Mikkelson
--
Barbara Mikkelson | So, just imagine Alexander II on a hopping,
bha...@fas.harvard.edu | two-legged horse, exploding. - Melissa Jordan
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Duquette et al
Dave Wilton <dwi...@sprynet.com> wrote in article
<32B2D5...@sprynet.com>...
The rules go something like: if you're blind but correctable you only get
to fly non-combat, if blind but correctable you don't fly, if you're color
blind you can't do any job having to with color (electronics, flying, a lot
of em), if you're missing a finger they won't even let you into the typing
pool (they checked for all of mine when I was going to go in the AF), and
it goes on, and on, and on,
minmei
Charles Wm. Dimmick
DaveHatunen wrote:
> Bad eyesight alone didn't get you out. If your vison was correctible
> with lenses you were OK. If not, you had to have a doctor's excuse, so
> to speak. I.e., lacking medical proof otherwise, the fact that you
> found the induction center was sufficient proof of adequate eyesight.
Old joke re the above, supposedly world war II vintage: Take the
inductees who failed the eye test, strip them naked, line them up
facing the stage, open the curtain, revealing a beautiful naked
female. Tell those who reacted positively that their indicators were
pointing to Fort Dix. This is the raw outline of the joke. It may
be filled in to suit the teller, including turning it into a
classic UL.
Charles Wm. "20-20" Dimmick
Press <CTRL-<ALT-<DEL to continue ...
Joe Myers
ptom...@compass.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>In a previous article, xbrian...@ajc.com (brian jones) said:
>>In article <32B1BA...@ix.netcom.com>, jack...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>>> A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
>>> fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
>>> that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
>>
>>That's an interesting reversal of the story in Spiegelman's "Maus", a
>>supposedly true story, wherein the author's father *starved* himself
>>whenever it came time to go before his draft board.
>My father told me this story about his National Service. He'd heard that you
>could get out for high blood pressure, and he'd also heard that drinking
>coffee temporarily raises your blood pressure. So he drank cup after cup
>after cup the morning he was supposed to report. He duly reported, had his
>physical, and was inducted into the RAF. Several months later, he was in the
>hospital for some other reason, and they took his blood pressure, and asked
>him how he got into the RAF with such low blood pressure. And that, he
>claims, is why he only did 6 months of his National Service.
BINGO! I think we got a UL, at least a service legend.
I remember from the 60s, sitting around discussing ways to deal with
the draft. And one of the participants related the above . . . "tried
to jack up his blood pressure w/ drugs, sleep deprivation, &tc" and
"barely passed the physical because his blood pressure was almost too
low!"
Joe "and then he passed the joint" Myers
Ulo Melton
sn...@tiac.net (Craig Snoeyenbos) wrote:
>Then there were the peanut butter stories, but they were told as stories,
>no claim of voracity.
Peanut butter stories? Were these about the K-9 Corps?
Ulo "Private Skippy, front and center!" Melton
melt...@sprynet.com
Scott Johnson
Matt Ackeret (mat...@vax.area.com) wrote:
: Also, what happens if they simply say *no*? (Don't show up at the draft board
: when you're supposed to or whatever.)
:
: I mean, what are they going to charge you with? Is it a felony? How long
: can you be put in jail for it?
Um, yes it is a felony, and you can go to jail for quite a while because of
it!
--
Scott Johnson Email: sco...@eecs.umich.edu
http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~scottdj
"Do not meddle in the affairs of [techno]mages, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
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Evan Morris
On 13 Dec 1996 19:30:59 GMT, rosa...@students.uiuc.edu (rosa nina
williams) wrote:
>ANYhow, they also told me about a friend of theirs, which is, I think,
>sufficiently friend-of-a-friendish. He supposedly shared their
>vehement anti-Vietnam-War sentiments, to the point where he told the
>draft board,
>
>"You can give me a gun, but /I'll/ decide where I point it."
>
>Supposedly he was immediately classified 4F.
I refused induction in 1969 in New Haven, which meant standing in a
line and swearing an oath. They gave you a chance to refuse the oath
by stepping forward, which I did. They then made it very hard on you.
I ended up sitting in the CO's office for an hour or so while he
explained all the dire things that were about to happen to me. I was
18 years old and terrified.
I attempted to explain my opposition to the war. He wanted to know
what would happen if they forced me to join and I said I'd fight them
all the way. I mentioned stories I'd heard (from antiwar vets) about
resistance and antiwar organizing within the military, and said I
supported that sort of thing. I didn't offer to shoot any officers --
I wasn't that crazy.
Eventually I was sent home, my status in limbo. A while later they
did indeed classify me 4F, but I think it was the luck of the draw,
possibly a shift in the political climate, whatever. I knew people
who did exactly the same thing and ended up in federal prison.
p.s. -- re Snopes' question about eye tests -- you had to have medical
documentation of any severe disability. Showing up blind as a bat all
of a sudden just plain didn't work, and when in doubt you were
generally inducted. I'm legally blind in one eye, have a heart murmur
and cannot fully extend my elbows (which made the parallel bars in gym
pure hell, by the way) and I passed my physical just fine.
p.p.s. There's a big difference to a lot of people between draft
avoidance and draft resistance.
p.p.p.s. Yes, I'd do it again.
--
Evan Morris
wor...@well.com
Joe Myers
"Charles Wm. Dimmick" <dim...@ccsu.ctstateu.edu> wrote:
>DaveHatunen wrote:
>> Bad eyesight alone didn't get you out. If your vison was correctible
>Old joke re the above, supposedly world war II vintage: Take the
>inductees who failed the eye test, strip them naked, line them up
>facing the stage, open the curtain, revealing a beautiful naked
>female. Tell those who reacted positively that their indicators were
>pointing to Fort Dix.
Probably has been re-worked in the wake of "don't ask, don't tell," ya
think?
Lawrence Kubicz
Larry Preuss wrote:
> In article <58tl12$4...@crl10.crl.com>, psta...@crl.com (Paul J.
> Stamler) wrote:
>
>> "My country -- right or wrong. When right, to be kept right. When
>> wrong, to be put right." - Carl Schurz
"Two wrongs don't make a right. Three lefts do."
Larry Kubicz
lku...@earthlink.net
William L. Gembala
This was one that I had heard in the peanut butter genre:
Draftee spreads peanut butter on his butt before going to the induction
physical. When he bends over for the traditional "look see" by the
examining physician, the physician sees the peanut butter and says, "Son,
you crapped your pants!"
Draftee reaches back and sticks his finger in it, and then tastes it, and
says "Gosh Doc, you're right!". Draftee is classified 4F. Ta da!
Bill "I'll skip the Skippy" Gembala
pooder
In article <xbrian_jones-1...@169.137.2.62>,
xbrian...@ajc.com (brian jones) wrote:
>In article <32B1BA...@ix.netcom.com>, jack...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine during school (1966-70) would gain enough weight to
>> fail the medical exam, then promptly lose the excess. He did it twice
>> that I know of. I don't think it counts as a ul though.
>
>That's an interesting reversal of the story in Spiegelman's "Maus", a
>supposedly true story, wherein the author's father *starved* himself
>whenever it came time to go before his draft board.
A friend of my best high-school buddy wanted in. They turned him down
because of too *low* blood pressure. He was allowed to re-take the
physical, but still failed in spite of drinking coffee and smoking
cigarettes nearly non-stop the night before . . . .
Don "Neither a UL, nor about draft avoidance, but a FoaF!" Fearn
Paul Kunkel
snopes <sno...@best.com> writes:
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> (They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
> There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
> evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
I heard of someone doing the opposite. The story came from a
relative of mine. I should note that he has a screw loose, a condition
not unheard of in any family. But here's his story. He wanted to join
the Marines, but he is totally blind in one eye. He discovered that eye
charts, like everything else in the Marines, are uniform. So he simply
acquired one and memorized it. The deception held up for a few months,
but those who worked closely with him could tell there was something
wrong. After several successful exams, someone tested him with a
custom-made chart. He was discharged.
Kunkel
Paul Kunkel
"Duquette et al" <min...@ids.net> writes:
>Funny, my bf's dad did exactly the oppisite, they weighed him once and he
>was a 1/2 pound heavy enough, then he stood up nice and straight and asked
>them to weigh him again, and he was a 1/2 pound under weight.
He lost a pound by sucking in his gut? I used to see a lot of
variations on that approach when I was on the high school wrestling team.
We had to weigh in before each meet. Those who were close to the limit
would mount the scale, and then stand on their toes, shift their weight to
one foot, hold their breath, or close their eyes and try to concentrate on
weighing less. Belief is forceful, but so is gravity.
Moving back on topic, I would like to ask if anyone here has
attempted the conscientious objection route. I understand that it is not
very simple. A friend of mine did this during the Vietnam War. According
to him, the recruiter asked what church he was affiliated with. He
responded that he had no church and no religious beliefs. War was simply
against his principles. The recruiter, who was substituting for someone
else, was at a loss. He did not know which form to use. He politely told
my friend to go home, and advised him that after consulting his superiors,
he would contact him. Twenty-seven years later, he still has not received
that phone call.
Kunkel
Frank Michaels
n964...@scooter.cc.wwu.edu (Paul Kunkel) wrote:
>"Duquette et al" <min...@ids.net> writes:
>>Funny, my bf's dad did exactly the oppisite, they weighed him once and he
>>was a 1/2 pound heavy enough, then he stood up nice and straight and asked
>>them to weigh him again, and he was a 1/2 pound under weight.
> He lost a pound by sucking in his gut?
No, but he probably gained an inch or two of height by not slouching.
"Overweight" is a function of height. Standing up straight probably
edged him into the next height class, where his weight was acceptable.
Back on topic, the whole weight gain/loss thing does not sound like a
reliable way to avoid induction. Flat feet wouldn't do it, either (my
Dad's feet are flat as duck-flippers as they took him). Faking medical
excuses wouldn't work without a doctor's note (real or a good forgery)
I work with a fellow who was drafted during the Vietnam War, but was
unfit for duty due a serious (as in life-threatening) medical
condition. He showed up at the induction center dutifully, with his
doctor's note, but the clerk sent him in anyway. He failed the
blood-pressure test, as high bp was a condition of his illness. Now
the rule was (he was told) that anyone failing the bp test had to come
back another day to retest, because there were ways of deliberately
raising/lowering your blood pressure and the doctors at the induction
center knew about them. My friend argued that he did *not* have to
come back, because he had his medical records and a doctor's note
stating his condition, showing that his blood pressure was always
dangerously high. An argument ensued, bringing the head doctor over,
who examined my friend's medical records and barked to the orderly
(right in front of my friend) "This guy does *not* have to come back,
he's only got about a year to live!" (Those sensitivity training
courses really do pay off).
The point is, according to my friend, the raising/lowering blood
pressure ruses were not reliable, as the doctors were onto them and
would simply ask you back another day to retest, and even a doctor's
note stating that the condition was real and permanent was sometimes
insufficient for suspicious/ignorant orderlies.
PS -- Shortly after the incident, my friend had a risky (especially
for the time) operation, recovered, got married, has two kids, and is
currently in his mid-forties living a normal (?) life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank "the perfect weight for my height provided I'm 11 feet tall"
Michaels
Paul and Cindy Kruse
snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
>William L. Gembala <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>> war?
> This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> (They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
> There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
> evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
> - snopes
My uncle was almost legally blind. He passed the physical, and ended
up an X-ray technician for the duration of his stay in the military.
plk...@iu.net (Paul Kruse)
Marcus Meißner
In article <AED7AF2A...@l2.bandon.coos.or.us>,
Chris Schram <sch...@mail.coos.or.us> wrote:
..
>My pre-induction physical was almost thirty years ago. I hope to get over
>it someday.
>
>What we had was several busloads of scared teenagers who had to spend a
>whole day enduring indignities left and right. All any of us wanted to do
>was have it end so that we could go home.
Reminds of me of mine. 5 years ago. With the German army.
You spend most of the procedure clothed with only your slip. Almost any time
embarassed by either a female doctor (that has just taken your urine) or
outnumbered by 3 to 1 by other staff.
If it had been in my power, I would have wiped out the whole army that day.
Marcus "hey, they have to be prepared to die anyway"
--
<URL:http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/user/msmeissn/index.html>
Paul and Cindy Kruse
"William L. Gembala" <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>war?
I was wondering if anyone ever heard this one, which is supposed to
have happened in Jaxsonville, FL.:
A young man rides the bus up to Jaxonville, wearing nothing but a
raincoat. He is carrying a live pet rabbit, and pretends to be
autistic. He appears to be whispering to the rabbit the whole time,
but pays no attention to anything else that was happening around him.
When he gets to the the place for his physical, he continues this
game; ignoring everything said to him, and complying with none of it.
When the doctor and some big guys try to force him to take off the
rain coat for the physical, he goes mad, jumps up on a table, and
beats the doctor with the rabbit, killing the rabbit, with rabbit
blood flying everywhere.
As the story goes, they gave him a 4F, and sent him home. I have
heard this story several times from different people, with only minor
variations. One has the man being the guy who owns Ron Jon's Surf
Shop in Cocoa Beach, FL.
Who else has a variation to this story?
Craig Snoeyenbos
> BINGO! I think we got a UL, at least a service legend.
> I remember from the 60s, sitting around discussing ways to deal with
> the draft. And one of the participants related the above . . . "tried
> to jack up his blood pressure w/ drugs, sleep deprivation, &tc" and
> "barely passed the physical because his blood pressure was almost too
> low!"
Another one of the outsmarted yourself genre that I heard was of the
genius who had "Fuck the Army" tatooed on the palm of his right hand so it
would be there for all the world to see whenever he saluted.
He goes in for his physical, they take one look at it, make him a Marine.
--
Craig Snoeyenbos - All usual and most unusual disclaimers apply
Q) How many drug war fanatics does it take to change a lightbulb ?
A) Changing the bulb now would send our kids the wrong message !
Duquette et al
Frank Michaels <fra...@i-2000.com> wrote in article
<591evp$b...@news2.i-2000.com>...
> fra...@i-2000.com (Frank Michaels) wrote:
>
> >n964...@scooter.cc.wwu.edu (Paul Kunkel) wrote:
>
> >>"Duquette et al" <min...@ids.net> writes:
>
> >>>Funny, my bf's dad did exactly the oppisite, they weighed him once and
he
> >>>was a 1/2 pound heavy enough, then he stood up nice and straight and
asked
> >>>them to weigh him again, and he was a 1/2 pound under weight.
>
> >> He lost a pound by sucking in his gut?
>
> >No, but he probably gained an inch or two of height by not slouching.
> >"Overweight" is a function of height. Standing up straight probably
> >edged him into the next height class, where his weight was acceptable.
>
> Sorry, I mislepped "Underweight" and "unacceptable". As an overweight
> fellow I have a hard time understanding the concept of "underweight"
> and how it may exist. --FM
>
>
Heh! I was borderline underweight for my height when I tried to get in
when I was 18, a girlfriend of mine was 5 lbs under when they first weighed
her, they told her she had to gain the weigh b4 she left for basic. I
remember going to GNC to buy that bulk adding weight-building powder stuff,
she also ate a lot of bananas b4 they weighed her, she JUST made it.
minmei
The Eggman
Philo wrote:
[SNIP]
> I'm *almost* legally blind in my left eye (correctable to 20/20 with
> glasses), and I'll tell you that if I had that vision in both eyes, I
> couldn't even walk around without glasses.
My impression was that if your vision is correctable, you're not
legally blind. Anyone know the definition of legally blind?
--
Take care,
Tracy "worse than 20/400 in both eyes, that's all they'll tell me" Sweat
home: mailto:tsw...@flash.net
work: mailto:sw...@mmc1001.lfwc.lockheed.com
Frank Michaels
Walter Eric Johnson
IIRC, enlistment was for three years while the draft was
for two years. But you could volunteer to be drafted and
have two years of service instead of three.
While one of my brothers was in Viet Nam, there was someone
in his platoon who had trouble keeping up with the rest of
them. Someone asked him about it and he replied that it
was because he only had one lung! A quick verification by
the medics and the guy was sent home and discharged.
Apparently, the doctors that performed the physical when
he was drafted didn't believe him and didn't check very
closely.
Eric Johnson
KB
I was a draft counselor from about 1968-71, working in Sacramento and
Oakland, California. The Oakland Induction Center processed people from
all over Northern California. As someone has already mentioned, the most
common way to get a draft order cancelled was to find a procedural error.
The Selective Service System was so poorly operated, that almost anyone
could find something that had been done wrong. We counselors spent hours
poring over stuff from a subscription service called the Selective Service
Law Reporter, to keep on top of all of the i's that needed dotting and t's
to cross so we could advise people about procedural errors. Finding a
procedural error bought you time to get your medical condition properly
documented or make your case for conscientious objection or emigrate to
Canada or enlist in the reserves, whatever worked for you. But, as this is
a newsgroup on UL's, I'll stick to rumors current about 1970 on how to get
out. In the late 1960s, the draft was alsmost always for the Army,
occasionally for the Marines. Navy, Air Force & Coast Guard were able to
go on volunteers.
1. Fake it and fail the eye or hearing test. If you were caled for a
physical, the Army could hold you for (I believe) three days to "complete
the tests." This meant that, from Oakland, you were shipped off to
Letterman Hospital in San Francisco for more sophisticated testing. We
were told that that included tying lie detector tests to sight & hearing
tests. I don't know if it was true, but trying to fake bad sight or
hearing never worked.
2. Take amphetemines or some other drug to make your blood pressure sky
high. Same deal. After three days, your blood pressure was back to
normal. I did have one guy get off who showed up for his physical in the
midst of withdrawal from heroin. He was in pretty bad shape and it didn't
take much for even the Army to figure out he was undesirable.
3. Claim flat feet. You had to more than claim the flat feet; you had to
have all kinds of medical evidence that you couldn't wear army shoes. I
only saw this work once with a guy who has a congenital foot deformity that
prevented him from wearing anything but sandals. Even then, it took a lot
of orthopedic consultation for him to get a deferment.
4. Be the only surviving son. You had to be the sole surviving son of a
person who was killed in combat, not just the only son.
5. Anounce that you were homosexual. Problematic. As others have
mentioned, the military learned quickly to ask for proof. They might want
a psychiatrist to verify or a statement from your partner. In 1970,
announcing that your were gay, even in the SF Bay Area, was a big deal.
Even the note form the psychiatrist could be a problem. There were a few
Bay Area shrinks opposed to the war who would certify anything. Oakland
soon blacklisted them. I talked to one guy who showed up in full drag and
refused to "get undressed in front of all those boys." It worked for him.
6. Refuse to take the oath. Too late. Before the oath was administered,
you were asked to step forward when your name was called. That was the
point at which you agreed to be in the military. If you then refused to
take the oath, you were punished as if you were in the military, not as if
you had refused the draft. Refusing to step forward was a big deal and
made you liable for a felony conviction. What happened to you depended as
much on politics as anything. Generally, courts didn't like geting
involved in these cases because they were very sticky and could be bad
publicity. They would try for a plea bargain or something. But, if you
were, say, Joan Baez's husband, sometimes the military wanted to make an
example out of you. (I didn't get involved in Resistance, so have little
informaition on what happened to most resisters. It was also a felony to
counsel anyone to resist the draft, which is why I stuck to helping people
find their legal options.)
7. Get busted for marijuana. It was a felony then, but, hey, everybody
knows posession is no big deal and the judge will just give you probation
which will be cool because the Army won't take you. Nope. The Army had to
check out the morals of anyone convicted of a felony, but could waive
deferment for anyone. This is the famous Group W of Arlo Guthrie fame.
Most people convicted of simple posession were found quite acceptable for
the Army.
--
Kathy Brunetti
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, snopes <sno...@best.com> said:
>Paul Tomblin <ptom...@compass.xcski.com> wrote:
>> because it's the national bird, is a felony. A bunch of people who
>> wanted to avoid getting drafted attempted to get caught conspiring to
>> kill a Bald Eagle.
>
> If you're willing to take a felony conviction to avoid the draft,
> you don't need to do anything except refuse to be inducted.
The point is that the punishment for "Conspiracy to kill a Bald Eagle" is
probably lighter than the punishment for refusing to be inducted.
--
Paul Tomblin, PP-ASEL _|_ Rochester Flying Club web page:
____/___\____ http://www.servtech.com/public/
___________[o0o]___________ ptomblin/rfc.html
ptom...@xcski.com O O O
Larry Preuss
Standards for medical eligibility were not fixed throughout the Viet Nam
affair, but changed as needs for manpower changed. At one time in the
course of the action a history of asthma at any time after age 8
disqualified a man from the draft. Much later, a man could be drafted with
active asthma, if the wheezing could be controlled without the use of
corticosteroids. The point to be made is that a situation which rmeoved a
man from draft consideration on one day might not on the next.
Larry Preuss
--
Charles Lieberman
In <58t4af$e...@news.spies.com> did Matt Ackeret (mat...@vax.area.com) decree:
> Also, what happens if they simply say *no*? (Don't show up at the draft board
> when you're supposed to or whatever.)
> I mean, what are they going to charge you with? Is it a felony? How long
> can you be put in jail for it?
If it IS a felony, than doing it once precludes your being drafted.
--
Charles A. Lieberman
http://members.tripod.com/~calieber/index.htm
Brooklyn, New York, USA
"Well I have walked/Over miles/And under a stone wall/Across the fields
of snow"--For Squirrels
Duquette et al
The Eggman <tsw...@flash.net> wrote in article <32B481...@flash.net>...
> Philo wrote:
>
>
> [SNIP]
>
> > I'm *almost* legally blind in my left eye (correctable to 20/20 with
> > glasses), and I'll tell you that if I had that vision in both eyes, I
> > couldn't even walk around without glasses.
>
> My impression was that if your vision is correctable, you're not
> legally blind. Anyone know the definition of legally blind?
>
Everyone around me has always talked about legally blind with glasses and
legally blind without glasses. I think the idea is so they can say that I
can't legally drive my car without wearing my glasses. I don't see the
fuss I'm only legally blind in one eye, I just take my glasses off and
close the bad eye to read. Why can't I do that when I drive? <g>
minmei
"lazy eye"
"You should see when I try to cross my eye!"
Matt Ackeret
In article <snoey-15129...@snoey.tiac.net>,
Craig Snoeyenbos <sn...@tiac.net> wrote:
>Another one of the outsmarted yourself genre that I heard was of the
>genius who had "Fuck the Army" tatooed on the palm of his right hand so it
>would be there for all the world to see whenever he saluted.
>
>He goes in for his physical, they take one look at it, make him a Marine.
That brings up another question. When people were "drafted" was it generic
like this, so they went in to the "draft board" and were then split up among
the 4 services? Or was there really a draft board for each service? How was
the distinction made? (Did they each have a quota or a requested percentage,
was it 25% of the people for each? Who got "first draft pick" of each
draftee, etc??)
I'm 28 so have not had any direct experience with this stuff.. (Though I
admit it seems silly in retrospect, I was getting kinda paranoid for a day or
two after the Gulf War started. I did *not* want to be drafted. But I was
at college at the time, and that was a reason for deferment in VietNam, right?)
I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective Service..
yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known what
would have happened. Would I have been put in jail for not signing up for
the draft? Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to sign
up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
--
mat...@apple.com
Matt Ackeret
In article <58t6vo$1...@nntp1.best.com>, snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
>Matt Ackeret <mat...@vax.area.com> wrote:
>> Also, what happens if they simply say *no*? (Don't show up at the draft board
>> when you're supposed to or whatever.)
>> I mean, what are they going to charge you with? Is it a felony? How long
>> can you be put in jail for it?
But he was a conscienscious objector. I just meant dealing with the
"regular legal consequences" if you weren't trying to claim it was against
your entire moral system.
(I probably don't qualify as an objector.. I am basically completely
against war, but if someone *starts* a war against us I want to blow the hell
out of them. The only time I can imagine where I wouldn't try as hard as I
could to get out of a draft would be if another country literally invaded
the US. Other than a direct invasion/bombing of our own land, I think we
should pretty much stay out of wars. Yes, I guess there are a couple of
countries we should help out if they were attacked, but only with bombs and
other hardware, not our own people.)
--
mat...@apple.com
Duquette et al
Matt Ackeret <mat...@vax.area.com> wrote in article
<592ra5$2...@news.spies.com>...
> In article <snoey-15129...@snoey.tiac.net>,
> Craig Snoeyenbos <sn...@tiac.net> wrote:
<snip 'Fuck the Army story'>
> That brings up another question. When people were "drafted" was it
generic
> like this, so they went in to the "draft board" and were then split up
among
> the 4 services? Or was there really a draft board for each service? How
was
It was a quota sort of thing, the Army had the quota for the most, Navy the
least I think. My father in law was drafted and put into the Navy because
he was too dang short for the other services. My husband towers over him
at 5' 4"
> I'm 28 so have not had any direct experience with this stuff.. (Though I
> admit it seems silly in retrospect, I was getting kinda paranoid for a
day or
> two after the Gulf War started. I did *not* want to be drafted. But I
was
> at college at the time, and that was a reason for deferment in VietNam,
right?)
> I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective
Service..
> yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known
what
> would have happened. Would I have been put in jail for not signing up
for
> the draft? Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to
sign
> up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
I know if you aren't signed up for selective service it's damn hard to get
fianancial aid and other govt assistance (federal) My husband had to drag
out his selective service card to get the Pell Grant even though his
presently in the service. And my ex-boyfriend had to even though he's too
old to get drafted.
minmei
Bob Hiebert
>But he was a conscienscious objector. I just meant dealing with the
>"regular legal consequences" if you weren't trying to claim it was against
>your entire moral system.
I can't stay quiet on this any more. Matt is only one of several posters who
link "consciencious objector" with avoiding going to war. This is a complete
crock. While there were some dipshits like Cassius Muhammed Aliclay, there
were a lot of others that have contributed in more positive ways (in my
opinion).
I come from a line of Mennonites on my father's side. Though I don't believe
in their religeon, I have a lot of respect for people that say, "I won't kill"
but don't run away from constitutional obligations of serving.
My great uncle was a medic who served on the front lines in WWII. He refused
to even carry a service revolver, but he was right there where the action was.
There are a number of people in my family that took similar approaches, though
most served in areas away from the battle front.
I won't pass judgement on anyone that avoided the Vietnam war, since I wasn't
old enough to be faced with that decision. I just feel strongly
that consciencious objectors shouldn't all be lumped into Clay's mold.
Bob "this threw me and fired me up" Hiebert
Wendell L. Ladner
This is true! I wanted to join Air Force and hopefully one day
become part of space program. My dreams were shattered when
I tore my knee up playing football in the 60's. I still wanted
to join air force, but with my knee I was afraid I would not
be accepted. Then along come Viet Nam - we ALL know now that
it was a political war and was WRONG. Most of us college folks
pretty well had that figured from the start. Well, I wanted
NOTHING to do with it yet I learned that even with my knee
condition I could very well become drafted. This caused me
great worry and concern as I saw my friends going off to die
to worry about being drafted into a USELESS war.
Longstory shortened. I was drafted and had three doctors
letters that were turned in PRIOR to all-day exams and test
taken. At end of day I was classified at 4F. No it was not
the poor hearing I had. No it wasn't the bad and weak knee
I had. It was the DAMN ULCERS I had gotten from worrying
about being drafted. Can you believe that. Ulcers by the
way were cleared up after about a year or so of treatment
and watching what I ate. The knee is still weak to this
day and will go out on me from time to time - and they were
not concerned about the knee!
(BY THE WAY - later I looked at getting into the National
guard and a close friend of mine said I probably would fail
the entry examine due to that very same weak knee).
Lizz Braver
In article <hatunenE...@netcom.com>, hat...@netcom.com says...
>
>In article <591nf2$d...@cc.iu.net>, Paul and Cindy Kruse
<plk...@iu.net> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>When he gets to the the place for his physical, he continues this
>>game; ignoring everything said to him, and complying with none of it.
>>When the doctor and some big guys try to force him to take off the
>>rain coat for the physical, he goes mad, jumps up on a table, and
>>beats the doctor with the rabbit, killing the rabbit, with rabbit
>>blood flying everywhere.
>
>demonstrated his unsuitability for the military in a sort of reverse
>Catch-22.
When I was trained by the Quakers to do draft counselling during the
late unpleasantness of the late 60's, we were told that, under no
uncertain terms, that it was illegal to tell someone to avoid the draft.
All we could do was give options, including any penalties attached.
My favorite one (not learned during Friends' training) was to encourage
any new draftee to wet the bed every night for at least 30 nights. No
skipping.
Lizz "And I thought it was women who always had to sleep in the wet
spot" Braver
Bo Bradham
DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Bo Bradham <bra...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
>>characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
>>he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
>>great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
>>("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
>>knife and stob one of 'em...")
>
>Um. That's right off of Arlo Guthrie's recording of "Alice's
>Restaurant".
Two people tell the same story? Stop the presses.
Bo "red letter day" bradham
--
"Grits, like potatoes, are inexplicable to anyone who doesn't have
the sense to like them." Roy Blount, Jr.
Susan C. Mitchell
Duquette et al <min...@ids.net> wrote:
: The Eggman <tsw...@flash.net> wrote in article <32B481...@flash.net>...
I think that in the US "legally blind" is defined as "having vision no
better than 20/400 with the best possible correction."
Having a corrective-lens restriction on your driver's license, as I do, is
a separate matter.
More information might be available on sci.med.vision -- but a crosspost
between there and AFU isn't something I'd wish on them. No one on smv has
ever done anything to hurt me.
Think globally, act locally.
Susan C. "If I take my glasses off they'll take away my walking
licence" Mitchell
--
================== NEW ADDRESS: sus...@primenet.com ==================
"Gadfly is what they call you when you are no longer | "sus...@xroads.com"
dangerous. I much prefer troublemaker, malcontent, | is no longer valid.
desperado." -- Harlan Ellison | Ask me why.
Bo Bradham
>>war?
>
>rain coat for the physical, he goes mad, jumps up on a table, and
>beats the doctor with the rabbit, killing the rabbit, with rabbit
>blood flying everywhere.
>
Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
knife and stob one of 'em...")
After a few minutes of this the recruiting sergeant says "why,
fella, you're crazy!"
The other guy says "write that down."
Bo "what? no one has mentioned Ted Nugent yet?" Bradham
DaveHatunen
[...]
>When he gets to the the place for his physical, he continues this
>game; ignoring everything said to him, and complying with none of it.
>When the doctor and some big guys try to force him to take off the
>rain coat for the physical, he goes mad, jumps up on a table, and
>beats the doctor with the rabbit, killing the rabbit, with rabbit
>blood flying everywhere.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who would do this has amply
demonstrated his unsuitability for the military in a sort of reverse
Catch-22.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California *
* Between San Francisco and South San Francisco *
*******************************************************
Hactar
In article <32B481...@flash.net>, The Eggman <tsw...@flash.net> wrote:
>Philo wrote:
>
>
>[SNIP]
>
>> I'm *almost* legally blind in my left eye (correctable to 20/20 with
>> glasses), and I'll tell you that if I had that vision in both eyes, I
>> couldn't even walk around without glasses.
>
>My impression was that if your vision is correctable, you're not
>legally blind. Anyone know the definition of legally blind?
My optometrist tells me you are legally blind if your _corrected_ vision
is worse than <mumble>. So, there's really no such condition as "legally
blind with glasses" or "legally blind without glasses".
For those of you wanting sources, that's Dr. LaRue, Brandon, FL.
--
Eb...@Gate.Net / An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy
Eben King / of being called an idea at all. Oscar Wilde
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave. Sir William Drummond
TJ
Duquette et al wrote:
>
>
> I know if you aren't signed up for selective service it's damn hard to get
> fianancial aid and other govt assistance (federal) My husband had to drag
> out his selective service card to get the Pell Grant even though his
> presently in the service. And my ex-boyfriend had to even though he's too
> old to get drafted.
> minmei
marked 'female' (truthfully)...figuring fair is fair and I'm into this
equality shit. I got more confused phonecalls, generally from a man with
a very young sounding voice, telling me I didn't "hafta" register.
It sounded like they didn't have a 'policy' for this occurance, so I
assumed it wasn't a common one. ---t 'swimming downstream to spawn" j
Tim Shoppa
In article <592ra5$2...@news.spies.com>,
Matt Ackeret <mat...@vax.area.com> wrote:
>I'm 28 so have not had any direct experience with this stuff.. (Though I
>admit it seems silly in retrospect, I was getting kinda paranoid for a day or
>two after the Gulf War started. I did *not* want to be drafted. But I was
>at college at the time, and that was a reason for deferment in VietNam, right?)
>I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective Service..
>yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known what
>would have happened.
You would've been ineligible for federal loans and aid programs for college
students, at the very least. I believe that this policy *may* have
been changed in the last 4 or 5 years, but I'm not certain. At the
time I began college - in 1986 - the aid and loan forms quite clearly
stated what would happen if I was over 18 and wasn't registered for
the draft. I remember some older male students - over the cut-off
age for having to keep their selective service record current - needing
to supply birth certificates to prove that they no longer had to be
registered.
> Would I have been put in jail for not signing up for
>the draft?
No, not in 1986.
> Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to sign
>up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
Technically, they have to always know your current address. As a
practical matter, the only students I knew who updated their
records at every move were those who belonged to religions with
beliefs opposed to the draft - if you know you're going to
apply for "conscientous objector" status, you want to keep
*everything* on your record squeaky clean.
Tim. (sho...@triumf.ca)
Angus Johnston
mat...@vax.area.com (Matt Ackeret) writes:
> I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective Service..
> yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known what
> would have happened. Would I have been put in jail for not signing up for
> the draft? Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to sign
> up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
Cuz it's the law. No, they wouldn't have prosecuted you, but you
wouldn't have been eligible for federal student loans or grants, and
you would have been barred from many, if not all, federal jobs.
--
Angus Johnston
Tony Lima
Alan Bostic <abos...@netcom.com> wrote:
AB> In article <hatunenE...@netcom.com>,
AB> hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
AB> > It was easy to avoid the draft by doing what I did: enlist.
AB> (Trying to) join the Navy was a common way of avoiding being drafted and
AB> sent to Viet Nam. Some poor sods managed to get into the Navy, but got
AB> stuck on patrol boats on the Mekong River.
Actually, the Coast Guard was much better. Also much harder
to join (due to excess supply of volunteers). - Tony "U.S.
coastal waters didn't have many Viet Cong" Lima
* RM 1.31 2547 *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: tony...@toadhall.com (Tony Lima)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Cannon
In article <YCPty8m9...@netcom.com>,
>
>> It was easy to avoid the draft by doing what I did: enlist.
>
This reminds me of a commedian telling the story how he tried to
avoid combat in Vietnam by joining the navy. He enlisted as a medic.
Guess what, the Marines don't have their own medics! They use the navies!
--
--
=================
can...@netcom.com
DaveHatunen
In article <5948os$d...@panix2.panix.com>, Bo Bradham <bra...@panix.com> wrote:
>Paul and Cindy Kruse <plk...@iu.net> wrote:
>>
>>>war?
>>
>>rain coat for the physical, he goes mad, jumps up on a table, and
>>beats the doctor with the rabbit, killing the rabbit, with rabbit
>>blood flying everywhere.
>>
>
>Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
>characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
>he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
>great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
>("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
>knife and stob one of 'em...")
Um. That's right off of Arlo Guthrie's recording of "Alice's
Restaurant".
--
Dave Wilton
Matt Ackeret wrote:
> I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective Service..
> yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known what
> would have happened. Would I have been put in jail for not signing up for
> the draft? Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to sign
> up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
You would not have been prosecuted, but you would be ineligible for
certain government services, like your student loans, and you would
be barred from any federal job and most likely any job requiring a
security clearance.
You have to sign up so that they *know* where you live. By simply
sending out a reminder, the Selective Service agency cannot verify
that you are actually there.
In my case, however, there was a bit of silliness. I recieved a
notice several years later requesting that I update my address
with Selective Service. I threw it away. Several other dunning
notices came threatening several not-so-dire penalties. I think
I finally sent one in. All the notices were addressed to
Lieutenant David Wilton, Headquarters and Headquarters Battery,
4th Battalion, 77th Field Artillery, APO NY 09455.
--
Dave Wilton
dwi...@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/dwilton/homepage.htm
JoAnne Schmitz
snopes <sno...@best.com> wrote:
>William L. Gembala <gem...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> Anyone heard any good ULs on how guys avoided the draft during the Vietnam
>> war?
> This brings to mind a (dumb) question I've been wanting to ask:
> Why couldn't reluctant draftees avoid military service simply by
> deliberately failing the eye test at the pre-induction physical?
> (They *do* give eye tests as part of the physical, don't they?)
> There isn't (or wasn't) any reliable way of determining the quality
> of someone's eyesight that doesn't depend heavily upon the patient's own
> evaluation of what he's seeing, is there?
There is the joke where the prospective inductee
[insensitive language warning as I recount someone else's words]
According to the bas^H^H^Hbest eye doctor in town (by his own
admission) when I last went to him in the late seventies, it is
apparently possible to do refractions without the help of the
subject.
Or, as he put it, "hell, I had twenty retarded kids lined up in
the hall and did each one without a single word from any of 'em.
They were too stupid to say anything. Didn't matter."
JoAnne "I don't know why he was so impatient when I couldn't
instantly decide whether a particular lens made my vision better
or worse; why didn't he just treat me like one of those 'stupid
retards'?" Schmitz
"JoAnne Schmitz, on the other hand, has on occasion struck me as
shrill, opinionated, boorish and dogmatic beyond reason. This
seems to be another episode."
--Tony Sweeney, on alt.folklore.urban
Richard Chilton
Here's a draft story that appeared in a book about 'real life vampires.':
A man, in the San Fansico area, had his girl friend (a nurse) draw a blood
samplea few days before his physical. The night before his physical he
drank it Why? To give the appearance of bleeding ulcers.
Richard
Ian Munro
DaveHatunen (hat...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <5948os$d...@panix2.panix.com>, Bo Bradham <bra...@panix.com>
: wrote:
: >Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
: >characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
: >he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
: >great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
: >("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
: >knife and stob one of 'em...")
: Um. That's right off of Arlo Guthrie's recording of "Alice's
: Restaurant".
Except that in Arlo's version the recruiting officer has a different
reaction: "You're our boy!"
Ian "veins in m'teeth" Munro
--
"but what is Wal-mart doing to protect our children from Bugs Bunny's
frequent and contemptuous mockery of normal heterosexual gender roles?"
--Rob McGee
David Lesher
Draftee with a (totally unlike mine) mild peanut allergy.
Makes no attempt to avoid service, signed up, assigned to boot
camp. On train to camp, he eats peanuts the whole way.
Next morning, he is covered in hives and has numerous other
reactions. Hospitalized ASAP. Docs look at him and ask
"You ever been sick like this before?" and the reply is an honest
"No sir _ have been sick but not like this..."
MD-Huddle in corner; signed him out and sent him home that day.
I've previously posted the story of Ken { } who had his PhD in
biochemistry and was a 727 2nd Officer for American Airlines.
He submitted to the draft but conceiled both his education and
employment from the Army. He literally washed test-tubes at Fort
Knox his entire time.
First day in, he signed his name KEN XXXXX in large block letters.
He convinced the Sgt that was how he always did it. Strangely, he
was never AWOL...despite being off base for many long weekends....
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Joe Myers
hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
:
>>
>>> >Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
>>> >characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
>>> >he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
>>> >great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
>>> >("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
>>> >knife and stob one of 'em...")
>>>
>>> Um. That's right off of Arlo Guthrie's recording of "Alice's
>>> Restaurant".
>>
>>is talking to the shrink, saying "Doc, I want to kill. Kill. Kill!
>>KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!" and both he and the shrink are jumping up and
>>down yelling "KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!" until all of a sudden the shrink
>>stops jumping, pats the guy on the back, and says, "You're our boy!"
And Clower's punch line is:
Sgt: You're crazy!
Recruit: Write that down!!!
In other words, it's a different joke.
I really hate coming to the defense of Jerry Clower.
Mark Shaw
Then there was the guy who avoided the draft by making a deal with a
military friend of the family who had some pull down at the draft board.
The deal involved his joining his college ROTC unit in lieu of actual
immediate military service.
Despite the fact that he later refused to hold up his end of the bar-
gain -- and, indeed, apparently never had any intention of doing so,
having written a letter to the FOTF indicating that he "loathed the
military" -- this fellow went on to achieve some success in politics
and is, today, the object of a rather large and alarming personality
cult among us USAnians.
---
Mark "Too young for Viet Nam, too old for Grenada" Shaw
My opinions only
PGP public key available at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw
Philo
>> I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective Service..
>> yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known what
>> would have happened. Would I have been put in jail for not signing up for
>> the draft? Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to sign
>> up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
When my selective service card came just after my 18th birthday, we
just ignored it. Another letter followed, my dad wrote back explaining
the circumstances. Another, nastier letter followed, talking about
federal student loans, etc. I wrote back on this one, simply filling
out the card, and indicating my correct address at the US Naval
Academy. I enclosed a photocopy of my military ID.
We never heard from them again...
Philo "Do you accept these?" NLN
--
======================================================================
Philo ||
ph...@radix.net || Due to a system error,
2E GULC <*> || Eudora cannot display a .sig
http://www.radix.net/~philo ||
======================================================================
Philo
TJ <sti...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>I went down to the post office and registered in the early eighties. I
>marked 'female' (truthfully)...figuring fair is fair and I'm into this
>equality shit. I got more confused phonecalls, generally from a man with
>a very young sounding voice, telling me I didn't "hafta" register.
>It sounded like they didn't have a 'policy' for this occurance, so I
>assumed it wasn't a common one. ---t 'swimming downstream to spawn" j
So why was there a box where you could mark "gender", then?
Philo "maybe when they asked 'sex' they wanted frequency" NLN
Larry Kubicz
Craig Snoeyenbos wrote:
>Another one of the outsmarted yourself genre that I heard was of the
>genius who had "Fuck the Army" tatooed on the palm of his right hand so it
>would be there for all the world to see whenever he saluted.
>He goes in for his physical, they take one look at it, make him a Marine.
Assumption: we're talking about the US military.
Two anti-voracity points:
1. A properly executed salute in the US military doesn't expose the palm.
2. The US Marines are strictly a volunteer force -- no conscripts.
Larry "so's the Air Force" Kubicz`
lku...@earthlink.net
Brendan Perry
So what is the opposite end of the scale, "perfect vision"? I was in
the med ceter here at NASA, and I was standing about 5 feet behind the
marked line for the eye chart and I could easily read the bottom line
on the chart. How GOOD can one's vision be?
Brendan "if I squinted I could read "Acme Eye Chart Company -- Reg US
Pat Off" Perry
--
cheers,
Brendan Perry
Philo
hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
>>out the card, and indicating my correct address at the US Naval
>>Academy. I enclosed a photocopy of my military ID.
>>
>>We never heard from them again...
>>
>>Philo "Do you accept these?" NLN
>
>You should have still had to register. There are reasons you might have
>become draftable, notably by bombing out of the Academy.
If you get tossed from basic training, do you still have to register
with selective service? (I honestly don't know)
Philo
Donald DiPaula
In article <32b8e7fe...@news1.radix.net>, Philo <ph...@radix.net> wrote:
!hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
!
!>>out the card, and indicating my correct address at the US Naval
!>>Academy. I enclosed a photocopy of my military ID.
!>>
!>>We never heard from them again...
!>>
!>>Philo "Do you accept these?" NLN
!>
!>You should have still had to register. There are reasons you might have
!>become draftable, notably by bombing out of the Academy.
!
!If you get tossed from basic training, do you still have to register
!with selective service? (I honestly don't know)
actually, on the registration form, you can indicate that you are a current
member of the u.s. armed forces; presumably, you must still send the
registration in even if that box is checked. i don't know whether cadets and
plebes are considered official members of the u.s. armed forces or not, but i
think not.
i also think a cadet/plebe can leave any of the u.s. service acadamies before
completing his or her second year, for any reason or no reason, without
incurring any service obligation. i don't have the source handy for these
tidbits, so i can't be definate.
presumably, if you get tossed from service (basic, active duty, acadamy, etc.),
i would expect you would have your draft status downgraded somewhat below A-1.
i mean, you volunteered and they didn't want to keep you, so you should be
less desireable than a random g.i. joe.
Donald "I was a veteran once, but that was years ago" DiPaula
--
By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meet the
definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to
send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to
recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation.
Michael Terry
DaveHatunen wrote:
>
> In article <yiety8m9...@netcom.com>,
> Alan Bostick <abos...@netcom.com> wrote:
> >In article <hatunenE...@netcom.com>,
> >hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
> >
> >> >Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
> >> >characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
> >> >he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
> >> >great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
> >> >("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
> >> >knife and stob one of 'em...")
> >>
> >> Um. That's right off of Arlo Guthrie's recording of "Alice's
> >> Restaurant".
> >
> >Not quite. In Guthrie's story/song, the man at the induction center
> >is talking to the shrink, saying "Doc, I want to kill. Kill. Kill!
> >KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!" and both he and the shrink are jumping up and
> >down yelling "KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!" until all of a sudden the shrink
> >stops jumping, pats the guy on the back, and says, "You're our boy!"
>
> around. Never trust the movie verison. Unless it's "The Godfather".
Not true. Granted, the song probably had a tendency to mutate somewhat
in each performance, but, according to the canonical version (on the
album), the shrink is jumping up and down also:
: And I walked in, I sat down, they gave me a piece of paper that said:
Kid,
: see the psychiatrist, Room 604.
: I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I wanna kill. I wanna kill! I wanna
see
: blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth! Eat dead, burnt
bodies! I
: mean: Kill, Kill!"
: And I started jumpin' up and down, yellin', "KILL! KILL!" and he
started
: jumpin' up and down with me, and we was both jumpin' up and down
yellin',
: "KILL, KILL!"
: And the sergeant came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the
hall,
: said, "You're our boy!" Didn't feel too good about it.
(available at: http://www.clark.net/pub/downin/cgi-bin/lyrics.html)
Mike "Life? No, I have no life." Terry
Simon Slavin
In article <591evp$b...@news2.i-2000.com>,
fra...@i-2000.com (Frank Michaels) wrote:
> Sorry, I mislepped "Underweight" and "unacceptable". As an overweight
> fellow I have a hard time understanding the concept of "underweight"
> and how it may exist. --FM
I'm rather underweight ... at least I show up well below the 'safe'
weight on every Doctor's chart I've ever seen. Since these charts
compare height with weight and I'm about 5'9", I'll let you guess
my weight. At various times certain people who should know better
have put me on weight-gaining regimes but all it did was make me
hyperactive.
The disadvantages are that I can't develop decent muscles, have a
very low tolerance for most drugs (including caffeine, asprin,
penicillin, tartrazine and alcohol) and have a very fast metabolism.
I have to be very careful to /avoid/ low-fat stuff, skimmed milk,
etc. else I tend to faint and/or feel dizzy.
OTOH I can eat whatever carbohydrate-rich stuff I want (provided I
brush my teeth !), very rarely get hangovers, and am fairly good
at karate since I have so little mass to accelerate. Swings and
roundabouts.
Simon.
--
Simon Slavin. Junk email not welcome here. Please don't email me copies.
I administer ISO 9000 and year 2000 certification tests for food.
"With the possible exception of the author's need to make a living,
there is no justification for this book being written." -- Hank Stine
Lizz Braver
In article <hatunenE...@netcom.com>, hat...@netcom.com says...
>>
>>Not quite. In Guthrie's story/song, the man at the induction center
>>is talking to the shrink, saying "Doc, I want to kill. Kill. Kill!
>>KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!" and both he and the shrink are jumping up and
>>down yelling "KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!" until all of a sudden the shrink
>>stops jumping, pats the guy on the back, and says, "You're our boy!"
>
>That's teh movie version. The song doesn't have the shrink jumping
>around. Never trust the movie verison. Unless it's "The Godfather".
>
>movie are autobiographical. And much of it true, too. For instance,
>there really is a Stockbridge Massachusetts.
>
You are mistaken about the record version. In the record, Arlo does it
himself. It's an integral part of the comedy.
There is not only a Stockbridge, there's an old church where Alice, Ray,
et al. lived. There was also an Alice's Restaurant. Currently, there is
a plaque where the restaurant used to been. Officer Obie was/is also a
real person, and was made famous by his circles and arrows.
Lizz "Been there" Braver
DaveHatunen
In article <596tk1$c...@wilbur.ohww.norman.ok.us>,
Lizz Braver <di...@ohww.norman.ok.us> wrote:
[...]
>You are mistaken about the record version. In the record, Arlo does it
>himself. It's an integral part of the comedy.
Um. I think that'sI said.
>There is not only a Stockbridge, there's an old church where Alice, Ray,
>et al. lived. There was also an Alice's Restaurant. Currently, there is
>a plaque where the restaurant used to been. Officer Obie was/is also a
>real person, and was made famous by his circles and arrows.
Didn't Officer Obie play himself in the movie?
Dave "8x10 glossies" Hatunen
Philo
hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
>In article <32b6fa74...@news1.radix.net>, Philo <ph...@radix.net> wrote:
>
>>I was active duty military while a midshipman. I'd guess that the
>>cards for active duty personnel are probably tossed; why worry about
>>less than 1% of the population when you have such a large pool
>>remaining? (my guess only)
>
>BEcause you are nominally redraftable even if you have already served.
>(Of course, if you finish Annapolis, you're commissioned and you're
>ALWAYS recallable.)
>
>>And I'd think that someone who _fails_ out of the academy while
>>there's a draft on may find himself in a seaman recruit's uniform...
>
>At one time I believe it was virtually inevitable.
>
So that's my point: why make work and harass someone who's already
volunteered? If for some reason he leaves the service, we either don't
want him, or we won't let him exactly leave... worst case, we make him
fill out the card before we hand him his discharge papers.
I'll see if I can hunt down some info on how they handled it.
Duquette et al
Larry Kubicz <lku...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<596jvu$q...@hacgate2.hac.com>...
> Craig Snoeyenbos wrote:
>
> >Another one of the outsmarted yourself genre that I heard was of the
> >genius who had "Fuck the Army" tatooed on the palm of his right hand so
it
> >would be there for all the world to see whenever he saluted.
>
> >He goes in for his physical, they take one look at it, make him a
Marine.
>
> Assumption: we're talking about the US military.
>
> Two anti-voracity points:
>
> 1. A properly executed salute in the US military doesn't expose the
palm.
The story is a little off, you expose the palm of your right hand when they
swear you in, not when you salute.
> 2. The US Marines are strictly a volunteer force -- no conscripts.
Thank God!
minmei
Duquette et al
DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<hatunenE...@netcom.com>...
> In article <594d3j$l...@panix2.panix.com>, Bo Bradham <bra...@panix.com>
wrote:
> >DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote:
> >>Bo Bradham <bra...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Comedian Jerry Clower has a story in which one of his recurring
> >>>characters goes to the reruiting office. He tells the sergeant
> >>>he wants to sign up and go straight to The War. He goes into
> >>>great detail about what he'll do the The Enemy when he gets there
> >>>("I wanna crawl on my belly through the mud, and pull out a big ol'
> >>>knife and stob one of 'em...")
> >>
> >>Um. That's right off of Arlo Guthrie's recording of "Alice's
> >>Restaurant".
> >
> >Two people tell the same story? Stop the presses.
>
> Except, of course, for Guthrie it's "autobiographical". And told nearly
> 30 years ago. In the movie, too. Or was Arlo Guthrie one of Clower's
> recurring characters and does Guthrie know this?
>
Movie?
minmei
Philo
dip...@access2.digex.net (Donald DiPaula) wrote:
>!>You should have still had to register. There are reasons you might have
>!>become draftable, notably by bombing out of the Academy.
Well, as I pointed out, I *did* send in the card, properly filled out,
and never heard from them again.
>!If you get tossed from basic training, do you still have to register
>!with selective service? (I honestly don't know)
>
>actually, on the registration form, you can indicate that you are a current
>member of the u.s. armed forces; presumably, you must still send the
>registration in even if that box is checked. i don't know whether cadets and
>plebes are considered official members of the u.s. armed forces or not, but i
>think not.
I was active duty military while a midshipman. I'd guess that the
cards for active duty personnel are probably tossed; why worry about
less than 1% of the population when you have such a large pool
remaining? (my guess only)
And I'd think that someone who _fails_ out of the academy while
there's a draft on may find himself in a seaman recruit's uniform...
Philo
Larry Kubicz
Matt Ackeret wrote:
>That brings up another question. When people were "drafted" was it generic
>like this, so they went in to the "draft board" and were then split up among
>the 4 services? Or was there really a draft board for each service? How was
>the distinction made? (Did they each have a quota or a requested percentage,
>was it 25% of the people for each? Who got "first draft pick" of each
>draftee, etc??)
Only the Army gets draftees. The other services generally get a sufficient
number of enlistees. When there's a war on, you might think their supply would
go down enough to make them require a draft, but the opposite is generally true.
This is because many who are eligible for the draft will enlist in one of the
other services, to keep from being drafted into the Army. I'm not trying to
diss the Army, but the standard of living (and probability of surviving) is
definitely greater in the Air Force and Navy. And the Marines, well...you know.
>I wish I had not sent in my "sign up for the draft" card (Selective Service..
>yeah right) on my 18th birthday though. I would've liked to have known what
>would have happened. Would I have been put in jail for not signing up for
>the draft? Also, since they knew enough to send me a damn REMINDER to sign
>up for it, why did I have to sign up at all?
Just guessing here, but it may be an attempt to get those so inclined to
declare conscientious objector status _before_ the shit hits the fan. I
never registered for the draft, so I'm not sure of the mechanics here. It
seems reasonable, though, for Selective Service to want to prevent a lot
of sudden conversions to pacifism when it's time to go to war. That way, they
have a more accurate picture of the manpower pool they have to draw on.
Larry "When I was that age, I wanted to be drafted by the Tigers[1]" Kubicz
lku...@earthlink.net
[1] The Detroit Tigers used to be a professional baseball team.[2]
[2] I know they're still in the AL, but would you call dealing Cecil Fielder
to the Yankees "professional"?
DaveHatunen
>
>>>out the card, and indicating my correct address at the US Naval
>>>
>>>
>>
>
I don't know how it is these days, but when I got out of the Army they
gave me a new draft card, classified as "already served". At the time
of the Korean War, some WW2 vets found themselves re-drafted, if I
recall correctly.
DaveHatunen
>I was active duty military while a midshipman. I'd guess that the
>cards for active duty personnel are probably tossed; why worry about
>less than 1% of the population when you have such a large pool
>remaining? (my guess only)
BEcause you are nominally redraftable even if you have already served.
(Of course, if you finish Annapolis, you're commissioned and you're
ALWAYS recallable.)
>And I'd think that someone who _fails_ out of the academy while
>there's a draft on may find himself in a seaman recruit's uniform...
At one time I believe it was virtually inevitable.
--