"Get with the program"
Tane' Tachyon
Someone tell me where this phrase originated, ok?
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Al Wesolowsky
In article <17...@darkstar.ucsc.edu> tac...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' Tachyon) writes:
>Someone tell me where this phrase ("Get with the program") originated, ok?
I'll take a stab. I know the phrase was common parlance in Alcoholics
Anonymous in the late 1970s, and likely much earlier. Much of AA
doctrine is structured around a 12-step program of recovery, and, in
fact, "the program" is often used as a term for AA amongst its members.
One might ask "how long have you been with (in) the program?" or "have
you been in the program long?".
A member who, despite all good intentions, is floundering, may be told to
"get with the program."
Over the last decade I have encountered it in print in non-AA contexts,
and it still sort of surprises me to see it "out of context," so to
speak.
Anyone got earlier appearances of the expression?
Al "I'm feeling *much* better now" Wesolowsky
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Peter van der Linden
Somebody wants to know where the phrase "Get with the program" originated.
Such youthful curiosity shall not go unsatisfied! The phrase was first
uttered about 150 years ago in Tsarist Russia. The annual massacre of
innocents was being planned, when a young cavalry officer objected to the
slaughter of citizens on the basis of religious beliefs.
In no uncertain terms, he was warned to "Get with the pogrom" and the
rest, as they say, is hysterical.
Source: "Dr Pinkerton's Large Book of Unusual Phrases, and Dog Training"
----------------
Peter van der Linden lin...@eng.sun.com
best name anagram: enlivened rap trend / worst: evil trepanned nerd
Larry N. Osborne
>
>In article <17...@darkstar.ucsc.edu> tac...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' Tachyon) writes:
>>Someone tell me where this phrase ("Get with the program") originated, ok?
>
>I'll take a stab. I know the phrase was common parlance in Alcoholics
>Anyone got earlier appearances of the expression?
Well, it was common in the US Army in the early 60s, used when someone
tried to interject a little sanity into army life.
"Gee, Sarge, I don't think it makes sense to jump into that
ice-swollen river and swim to the other side wearing full packs. Why
don't we cross that bridge over there?"
"Get with the program, Troop!" (Sounds of boot on backside followed
by subdued splash.)
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Peter van der Linden
Onan the Barbarian points out the massacre-related origin
of the phrase "get with the pogrom".
The phrase has extended into computer science, and is the
reason we now refer to "executing" programs, and why Unix has a
"kill" command and system call.
John Wichers
Ok.
It was Bill Gates first attempt at a user interface, when he first came out
with MS/DOS. He figured that the user should be responsible for providing
his or her own interface (a _true_ "Open Look"). To do so, however, you had
to be able to 'get with the program.' Not vice versa. This attitude is what
made Microsoft famous, and Bill rich. Very rich. Rich enough to buy his own
Porsches. =8^)
--John "\" Wichers
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harsh, which made them || 121 Museum St #2, Somerville Ma. 02143
tough to chew. - Danno || Anarchy - It's not a law, it's just a good idea.
|| Jesus saves sinners ... and redeems them for valuable cash prizes!!! ||
Henry Polard
>Unix has a "kill" command and system call.
Not to mention "forking" a child. Talk about abuse...
Henry Polard | REAL net address: | Reality / Virtual 17-line .sig
(408) 736-3300 | he...@maspar.com | is an allusion. \ with spiffy graphics.
robin rosenbaum
>
O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II.
When doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked
out. After a few days his commanding officer asked him what that
meant. The man was illiterate. He replied that "o. k." was short
for "ol korekt".
armed forces UL: in the Navy, you can have complete, meaningful
sentences that consist of nothing but officially recognized
acronyms and abbreviations.
Robin "STITITN" Hilp
Wes Morgan
>
>armed forces UL: in the Navy, you can have complete, meaningful
>sentences that consist of nothing but officially recognized
>acronyms and abbreviations.
>
Hmmmmm.....we used to get pretty close to this in the Army:
"RWI that SITREP to TOC and DIVARTY"
"AUTOVON MILPERCEN to MPRJ the SGT"
"8th ENGR BN's S1 is NFN by IG"
I used to have a crossword puzzle based on military acronyms/abbreviations.
Alphabet soup.....
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mor...@engr.uky.edu |the University of Kentucky's| morgan%engr.uky.edu@UKCC
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Brian Gordon
In article <1991Jul11....@aus.intel.com> ro...@aus.intel.com (robin rosenbaum) writes:
<In article <17...@darkstar.ucsc.edu> tac...@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' Tachyon) writes:
<>
<>Someone tell me where this phrase originated, ok?
<>
<
<O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II.
<When doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked
<out. After a few days his commanding officer asked him what that
<meant. The man was illiterate. He replied that "o. k." was short
<for "ol korekt".
Nope -- the use of OK, and even "Ol Korekt" has been traced back at least as
far as Martin Van Buren, which makes it substantially pre WWI.
--
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
| Brian G. Gordon bri...@Sun.COM |
| bri...@netcom.COM |
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Jack Campin
> ro...@aus.intel.com (robin rosenbaum) writes:
>> O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II. When
>> doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked out.
>> After a few days his commanding officer asked him what that meant. The
>> man was illiterate. He replied that "o. k." was short for "ol korekt".
> Nope -- the use of OK, and even "Ol Korekt" has been traced back at least
> as far as Martin Van Buren, which makes it substantially pre WWI.
I've heard somewhere that "okay" is "yes" in a West African language and
was brought to the US by the slaves.
Crossposting to soc.culture.african[.american], where this has doubtless
been an FAQ for yonks... anyone know what language it was?
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James D Dolan
ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes...
>I've heard somewhere that "okay" is "yes" in a West African language and
>was brought to the US by the slaves.
HMM, YOU OUGHT TO BE IN A POSITION TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT OPINION ON THE
"OCH AYE" THEORY. I TAKE IT YOU DON'T BUY IT?
JAMES DOLAN V088...@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
Lynn Gold
In article <83...@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v088...@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>In article <1991Jul12....@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>,
> ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes...
>
>>I've heard somewhere that "okay" is "yes" in a West African language and
>>was brought to the US by the slaves.
>
>HMM, YOU OUGHT TO BE IN A POSITION TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT OPINION ON THE
>"OCH AYE" THEORY. I TAKE IT YOU DON'T BUY IT?
Webster's gives the following etymology:
abbr. of oll korrect, alter. of all correct
--Lynn
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TJ Wood WA3VQJ
>The phrase has extended into computer science, and is the
>reason we now refer to "executing" programs, and why Unix has a
>"kill" command and system call.
This (like everything else here on a.f.u) reminds me of a story.
Back in 1980, Dr. Mary Lou Soffa (now DEAN Mary Lou) of the U. of Pgh
Computer Science Department was teaching an undergraduate course in compiler
theory. However, in typical university fashion, the class room was not in
Alumni Hall, where the computer science department resides, but rather in
one of the buildings where PITT's law school department calls its home.
Well, a law class was waiting outside the door near the end of the period,
waiting to get into the room, when they heard Mary Lou telling her class:
First we evalute this; shift or reduce and then execute.
Next this is evaluated and we again execute. (etc etc)
When the class was over, the Law School Professor and his students wanted
eagerly to know:
"What LAW class was *that*!?!"
Hey, I never realized how barbaric compilers were! All that executing
of code going on!
Now, if Mary Lou denies this story, its a sure sign that I'm getting *old*.
Terry "No fee for reading this posting, UNLESS WE GET MONEY FOR YOU" Wood
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Phil Kernick
ro...@aus.intel.com (robin rosenbaum) writes:
> O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II. When
> doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked out.
> After a few days his commanding officer asked him what that meant. The
> man was illiterate. He replied that "o. k." was short for "ol korekt".
Nope. As I heard it "OK" was the politcal slogan for some US
politician. His catch cry was "I am <someone> and am I OK" where OK
stood for Old Kenealy (sp?) which was his home town.
I saw this in the trivial facts column in our Adelaide Advertiser
newspaper.
Phil.
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| /// Departmental Engineer Phone: +61 8 228 5914 |
o| \\\/// Dept. of Psychology Fax: +61 8 224 0464 |o
| \/// University of Adelaide Mail: GPO Box 498 Adelaide SA 5001 |
Jack Campin
> ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes...
>> I've heard somewhere that "okay" is "yes" in a West African language and
>> was brought to the US by the slaves.
> HMM, YOU OUGHT TO BE IN A POSITION TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT OPINION ON THE
> "OCH AYE" THEORY. I TAKE IT YOU DON'T BUY IT?
I've never, in 15 years of living in Scotland, heard anyone say "Och aye".
"Oh aye", on the other hand, is very common, but doesn't sound enough like
"okay" to be a plausible antecedent. But I suppose it's possible if the
US preserved an archaic form of Scots somewhere.
Can you get together with Cindy Kandolf and trade letters? Do people
from Buffalo spend all their time SHOUTING REALLY LOUD over the noise
of Niagara?
Evan Kirshenbaum
ro...@aus.intel.com (robin rosenbaum) writes:
> O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II. When
> doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked out.
> After a few days his commanding officer asked him what that meant. The
> man was illiterate. He replied that "o. k." was short for "ol korekt".
Nope. As I heard it "OK" was the politcal slogan for some US
politician. His catch cry was "I am <someone> and am I OK" where OK
stood for Old Kenealy (sp?) which was his home town.
Old Kinderhook. Can't remember which president it was. This is
slightly more plausible than "oll korrect", but it begs the question
of why it got the meaning it did. Did "OK" stand for Old Kinderhook
before he said it? If so, did it have the modern connotation? To use
it in a political slogan, one must assume that "OK" was recognizable
outside of that community, but this doesn't seem likely.
More plausible would be the notion that he punned on an already extant
common saying. The "illiterate soldier" story (which Mirriam/Webster
sort of buys into, they give "oll korrect" as the derivation) doesn't
explain how it spread. It's similar to the "Uncle Sam" story, but
Uncle Sam was spread on posters. Why would the general population
start saying Ok?
I think I'd count the etymology of this one an open question. I'm
setting the follow-up to alt.usage.english, because they like open
etymological questions.
Evan Kirshenbaum
HP Laboratories
3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U
Palo Alto, CA 94304
Richard Pottorff
ro...@aus.intel.com (robin rosenbaum) writes:
> O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II. When
> doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked out.
> After a few days his commanding officer asked him what that meant. The
> man was illiterate. He replied that "o. k." was short for "ol korekt".
Nope. As I heard it "OK" was the politcal slogan for some US
politician. His catch cry was "I am <someone> and am I OK" where OK
stood for Old Kenealy (sp?) which was his home town.
I saw this in the trivial facts column in our Adelaide Advertiser
newspaper.
Phil.
I write:
Yep, you are write, as far as that goes. The politician in question is/was
Andrew Jackson.
Ramblin'
Leslie Madden
Re: OK - this from the chambers english dictionary (pg. 999):
"Various explanations of the letters have been given; evidence suggest
that OK originated as an abreviation of orl korrekt, a facetious
misspelling of all correct current in the US in the 1830's, and was
then used as a slogan by Van Buren's party in the 1840 U.S.
presidential election (Van Buren was born at Kinderhook, near Albany in
New York and was known as Old Kinderhook."
Leslie
John Eaton
>>>
> O. K. Was first used by an American enlisted man during WWI or II. When
> doing inventory, he would write "o. k." after items that checked out.
Are you sure it wasn't a ship inspector by the name of Kilroy?
John Eaton
!hp-vcd!johne
Tim Pierce
> Well, a law class was waiting outside the door near the end of the period,
> waiting to get into the room, when they heard Mary Lou telling her class:
>
> First we evalute this; shift or reduce and then execute.
> Next this is evaluated and we again execute. (etc etc)
>
> When the class was over, the Law School Professor and his students wanted
> eagerly to know:
>
> "What LAW class was *that*!?!"
>
>
> Hey, I never realized how barbaric compilers were! All that executing
> of code going on!
Heh. In my operating systems class last semester, we repeatedly came
across such notions as "killing" processes or jobs, and "picking the
victim" in cases of virtual memory management or deadlock resolution.
According to the professor, someone once wrote a paper positing that
the reason why so few women went into computer science was partially
the violent nature of the language used; processes being "killed" or
"aborted" and "victims being picked" all the time. (Incidentally, the
professor was a woman in a class of women; this was at Smith College
in Northampton, Mass.)
At the time, I came down with a perverse desire to make a comment
about "blaming the victims" or how the victims "deserved to be
killed." "No one asks to be deadlocked!" and that sort of thing.
Fortunately, my senses came over me and I remained quiet.
--
____ Tim Pierce \ Well, the sun gets weary / and the
\ / w1...@arnor.UUCP (<- mail HERE!) \ sun goes down / ever since the
\/ (twpi...@amh.amherst.edu) \ watermelon. -- Paul Simon
Terry Chan
Well folks, Cecil does a fairly decent job on the origins of "okay" in
the second book. He notes that Eric Partridge in _Origins_ (pub. 1983)
says "OK" derives from the OK Club, which supported Martin "Old Kinderhook"
van Buren in 1840. But this is only 0.5 of the story.
William and Mary Morris in the _Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase
Origins_ (1977) mentions the OK Club and also several other theories
(there's a good one about Haiti). But, Allen Walker Read wrote a series
of articles in the journal _American Speech_ in 1963 and 1964 which he
cites as best delineated. The letters of OK stand for "oll korrect" and
are the result of a fad for comical abbreviations that fluorished in the
1830s and 1840s (Cece mentions that Read cited "hundreds of citations"
to support his argument).
Cecil goes on to mention some interesting abbreviations in passing
(e.g., NG, "no go") and that exaggerated misspellings were a basic
tool of humorists in those days (vestiges of this practice are still
found in certain, esoteric areas, such as USENET). He notes that OK
was first found in print in Boston in 1839, but really took off when
van Buren was running for President. Other folks have mentioned Andrew
Jackson in connection (or connexion) with this thread. Cecil notes
that van Burens' opponents tried to use OK against van Buren by saying
that it originated with VG's allegedly illegitimate predecessor, Jackson,
"a story that still survives to this day". His enemies also went to
derive other interpretations (e.g., "Out of Kash", "Out of Kredit", and
[my favorite], "Out of Klothes"). Other folks came up with "Oll Killed",
"Often Kontradicts", etc.
It was a catchy slogan and after it got so popular, people began to forget
its origins and came up with other etymologies. Cecils mentions some of
them including:
1. Derivative of the Choctaw Indian affirmative "okeh". Jackson was
said to have introduced it into white american talk.
2. It was a telegraphic signal for "open key" (i.e., "ready to
receive"). Problem was, first telegraph message was sent in 1844.
3. "OK" stands for O. Kendall & Sons, a supplier of biscuits to the
army that stamped its initials on its products.
4. From the name of a Haitian port "Aux Cayes" (noted for its rum). A
variation is that it came from the French "au quai" or "to the dock",
which referred to cotton approved for loading.
5. Stands for Obediah Kelly, a RR freight agent who used to stamp his
initials on shipping documents.
6. From the Greek "Olla Kalla" or "all good".
7. A German general who fought on the American side (you know, the good
guys) in the Revolutionary War who used to stamp his documents for
"Ober Kommando".
and, of course, others. So, if you like and have faith in Cecil, that's
it (subject to any of my own errors in input of course). If you don't,
too bad. It does cover a number of proposed etymologies (including the
van Buren/Jackson one).
Terry "I hope I won't FAQ this one up" Chan
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Gary Swift
>Heh. In my operating systems class last semester, we repeatedly came
>across such notions as "killing" processes or jobs, and "picking the
>victim" in cases of virtual memory management or deadlock resolution.
And how about that evil Eunuchs Colonel who will fork a child?
If forked children who die when aborted aren't handled right,
they could hang around as ghost processes and a crypt won't help
you.
What about the civil rights of process slaves controlled by masters?
And I ain't even gonna touch(1) the subjects of mount(8), greek(1)
or tail(1). I think I've sed(1) enough. It's time(1) to be nice(1)
and shutdown(1M) before I tee(1) someone off and they come after me
with tar(1) and feathers.
Gary Swift, INTERACTIVE Systems Corp., Santa Monica, Ca., (213) 453 8649
internet: ga...@ism.isc.com
Dan Hartung
>[Many many good things about the origin of "OK"]
Thank you Terry! I have wondered about this a great deal, and have heard
most of the alternative derivations. My personal favorite was actually
the Choctaw "okeh".
I had always thought that "Old Kinderhook" was a fairly dicey derivation --
how did the abbreviation make such a wide transition in meaning? -- but
"oll korrekt" even more so. The latter always smacked of anti-immigrant
sentiment -- "those Germans don't even know how to spell". Especially
since this was often attached to something about printers using it.
Printers not knowing how to spell???!
But the way you with Cecil's help have shown these two "top contenders"
to not only both be true, but interrelated ... that is proof enough
for me.
I had not known about the "abbreviations" fad but it is very plausible.
--
Daniel A. Hartung | Brendan Gill spent a sleepless night at the
dhar...@chinet.chi.il.us | Bush mansion in Kennebunkport. The only
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| --- Alexander Cockburn
Kent Paul Dolan
chr...@sancho.sybase.com (Chris Lipski) writes:
> v088...@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>> JAMES DOLAN V088...@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
> Cut it out K*nt.
This one has a better chance; half-brother,
possibly; my father was remarried to a nurse in New
York for a while.
But then, there're probably _lots_ of Dolan's in New
York; it's a common enough Irish name to make the
"where this name comes from" maps of Ireland.
Kent, the man from xanth.
<xant...@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xant...@well.sf.ca.us>
--
County Mayo derived.
Tom Rombouts
PBS "Story of English" series suggested that "O.K." is derived
from an African word (sorry, can not remember the exact language)
meaning "yes" that is pronounced roughly "wah-kay"
Having seen the series and seeing how black Africans spread
throughout the western hemisphere taking much of their culture
with them, this seems like a much more likely origin of the word
than the "Oll Korrect" or "Old Kinderbock" stories that are found
even in some dictionaries.
Tom Rombouts Torrance 'Tater to...@ashtate.A-T.com
David Justice
Although an "Oll Korrect" origin seems quite fanciful out of context,
consider that the first written attestation of "o.k." that we have
(from 1839) reads: "...would have the `contributions box', et ceteras,
o.k. -- all correct -- ..."
The origin was elucidated by Alan Walker Read in 1963; his results are
summarized in Webster's Word Histories (1989). The gist is, there was
a fad in the 1830s for goofy acronyms, not unlike the "IMHO"s and
"FOAFOAF"s now multiplying like microbes in e-mail. A similar one
from that era was "O.W." (for "oll wright").
-- David Justice