Left footers?
Daniel Ucko
signal now.
Watching the FA Cup (Football Association Challenge Cup) 3rd round
game (Watford - Arsenal, ended 2 - 4) this weekend, the subject of
young Arsenal and England left-back Ashley Cole came up. Ashley Cole
kicks for preference with his left foot, and is as such described as a
'left footer.'
Are you still with me? Please, anyone who has fainted from boredom by
the mere mention of football, try to wake up: I will get to the point.
Anyway, it occured to me that here Catholics are sometimes called
'left footers.' I have seen this many times in print but it has never
occurred to me to ask why. I know for a fact that not all Catholics
are left footed, and for proof of this I hold up my Catholic friend
from Manchester with whom I have had many an entertaining game of
five-a-side football. I remember him distinctly kicking with his right
foot, and though I made a stunning save from his half-hearted punt,
this seemed to be his preferred foot.
[Will he ever shut up about football?]
OK, I never believed there was a genetic predisposition towards
leftsidedness in Catholics (and had there been, was there a sudden
parity shift after the Reformation?) but now at least I know it ain't
so. I found nothing in the the AFU or AUE FAQs.
Christopher Brookmyre mentions it in his book Boiling A Frog (Little,
Brown and Company, 2000). He writes: '...Elspeth was wise enough to
know that it was electoral poison to make a lot of noise about which
foot you kicked with,' and later on the same page that 'Cherie [Blair]
was a left-footer, after all,' in a way which assumes that everyone
knows this phrase.
The actor Daniel Day-Lewis was in a Jim Sheridan film called 'My Left
Foot,' (1989) which I have not seen. It is based on a true story and
the summary goes: 'Christy Brown is a spastic quadriplegic born to a
large, poor Irish family. His mother, Mrs Brown, recognizes the
intelligence and humanity in the lad everyone else regards as a
vegetable. Eventually, Christy matures into a cantankerous writer who
uses his only functional limb, his left foot, to write with.'
<http://us.imdb.com/Title?0097937>
I don't believe this really has anything to do with the origins of the
phrase.
But it seems odd that the Catholic church is linked with the left
side, since according to this cite:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1684/lefthand.html
'Centuries ago, the Catholic Church declared left-handed people to be
servants of the Devil. For generations, left-handers who attended
Catholic schools were forced to become right-handed.' I certainly know
of nothing perticularly left-leaning about the Catholic church,
politically or otherwise.
This thread, which was amongst the best that google could give me, is
inconclusive (it gives me four suggestions in eight messages.)
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=65n6i0%24dha%40argon.btinternet.com
[read whole thead.]
Niall Graham: 'In Ireland, a one sided spade like implement
was used for cutting turf. The locals had the blade on one side of the
shaft, the settlers possibly to distinguish themselves, forged their
spades with the blade on the other side which led to the euphemism "He
digs with his left foot".'
Stephen Patten: 'I always thought it was a piece of Army
slang. On Sunday's most units would conduct a 'Church Parade'; the
unit would form up and be inspected before marching off to the CofE
Chapel or Church. Catholic servicemen were excused going to the Chapel
and would be dismissed to form another squad which would head off to
Mass. For some reason members of protestant sects other than CofE
were normally forced to attend the CofE service - something to do, I
guess, with the Army penchant for uniformity. When a soldier leaves
the ranks he takes a step back from the rank and then turns and
marches off to his new squad. All drill steps are performed starting
with the left foot. Hence Catholics were known as 'left footers'.'
Paul Loosemore: 'As you are no doubt aware Catholics when
entering their pew will genuflect in reverence to the tabernacle. Most
genuflections are made with the right knee hence the "left foot" being
forward. Thus the term "left footers".'
Darklady: 'I haven't had a chance to open any of my reference
books but I seem to recall an idea that one has a "correct foot" to
place in a church first upon entering.'
Here we go again about spades
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=sschradeCLnBvL.MsK%40netcom.com
'From "Belfast Diary" by John Conroy (Beacon Press, 1987): The
Protestant spade has a short shaft topped by a T-shaped handle...
[Catholic spades] have straight, long shafts, with no special handles;
the digger is meant to hold those shovels by the shaft. Because of the
difference in design, a man with a Protestant spade usually used his
left foot for his labors, while a man with a long-shafted tool used
his right. Today, an Irishman who has never lifted a spade, when
unsure of a new acquantance's religion, may ask "What foot does he dig
with?"'
So in that case it isn't so much being Catholic, but being Irish, and
I can quite understand how, in today's service economy, it has become
kick with rather than dig with. Sounds a bit too cute to be true,
though. But that's all I have, though I was surprised how much porn I
found by googling on left-foot* and catholic in Google Groups.
I don't think this violates the BoR, and let's keep it that way. Does
anyone have anything more informative on this?
Daniel 'incompetent at kicking with any foot' Ucko
--
JamiJo delenda est.
Dr H
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Daniel Ucko wrote:
[...]
}But it seems odd that the Catholic church is linked with the left
}side, since according to this cite:
}http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1684/lefthand.html
}'Centuries ago, the Catholic Church declared left-handed people to be
}servants of the Devil. For generations, left-handers who attended
}Catholic schools were forced to become right-handed.' I certainly know
}of nothing perticularly left-leaning about the Catholic church,
}politically or otherwise.
I didn't attend a Catholic school full time, but I was sent to
one for an hour every Friday, along with my (US) public school
peers, for "religious instruction". I also had, and have a good
many frineds who did attend Catholic elementary and high schools.
I can attest that the above situation was still true in my experience
-- the nuns used to slap the hand of children caught writing left-handed
and force them to write right handed.
I never, however, ever heard Catholics refered to as "left-footers".
[...]
} Paul Loosemore: 'As you are no doubt aware Catholics when
}entering their pew will genuflect in reverence to the tabernacle. Most
}genuflections are made with the right knee hence the "left foot" being
}forward. Thus the term "left footers".'
} Darklady: 'I haven't had a chance to open any of my reference
}books but I seem to recall an idea that one has a "correct foot" to
}place in a church first upon entering.'
We were taught to always genuflect on the right knee, but again, I
never heard anything about any requirement for entering the church
with a particular foot first.
}So in that case it isn't so much being Catholic, but being Irish,
I don't know, but this seems quite plausible.
}But that's all I have, though I was surprised how much porn I
}found by googling on left-foot* and catholic in Google Groups.
Virtually every search seems to turn up some porn; this no longer
surprises me.
}I don't think this violates the BoR, and let's keep it that way. Does
}anyone have anything more informative on this?
Sorry, nothing more than childhood anecdotes.
Dr H
Trayce
wrote:
>Anyway, it occured to me that here Catholics are sometimes called
>'left footers.' I have seen this many times in print but it has never
>occurred to me to ask why. I know for a fact that not all Catholics
>are left footed, and for proof of this I hold up my Catholic friend
>from Manchester with whom I have had many an entertaining game of
>five-a-side football. I remember him distinctly kicking with his right
>foot, and though I made a stunning save from his half-hearted punt,
>this seemed to be his preferred foot.
<snip>
>I don't think this violates the BoR, and let's keep it that way. Does
>anyone have anything more informative on this?
I too, haven't ever heard of the phrase as being applied to Catholics
- it does, however, sometimes get used in reference to homosexuals
AFAIK.
A good cite for this, if a bit of a stretch, is this snippet from
Blackadder (the BBC comedy), talking about a rather err... gay
associate, and has some marvellous euphemisms, as is the style of the
show in general:
--------
Edmund: That great radish? That steaming great left-footer? The Earle
of Doncaster, Baldrick, has been riding side-saddle since he was
seventeen.
--------
I'm sure I've heard the phrase bandied about in this context on TV
before, as well...
HTH
Trayce "my right foot, my arse".
--
faith in chaos
trace @ connect.net.au
new site: http://www.memorygongs.f2s.com
John Francis
Trayce <tra...@somethingorother.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:10:52 +0000, Daniel Ucko <d.u...@physics.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Anyway, it occured to me that here Catholics are sometimes called
>>'left footers.' I have seen this many times in print but it has never
>>occurred to me to ask why. I know for a fact that not all Catholics
>>are left footed, and for proof of this I hold up my Catholic friend
>>from Manchester with whom I have had many an entertaining game of
>>five-a-side football. I remember him distinctly kicking with his right
>>foot, and though I made a stunning save from his half-hearted punt,
>>this seemed to be his preferred foot.
>
><snip>
>
>>I don't think this violates the BoR, and let's keep it that way. Does
>>anyone have anything more informative on this?
>
>I too, haven't ever heard of the phrase as being applied to Catholics
I have heard it used to refer to Catholics. This usage was amongst a
group of my friends in Liverpool (including at least one Catholic).
I assumed it was a local expression, as I hadn't heard it used that
way in the South of England.
--
John "left hander" Francis
Lee Rudolph
>>On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:10:52 +0000, Daniel Ucko <d.u...@physics.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Anyway, it occured to me that here Catholics are sometimes called
>>>'left footers.' I have seen this many times in print but it has never
>>>occurred to me to ask why.
...
>I have heard it used to refer to Catholics. This usage was amongst a
>group of my friends in Liverpool (including at least one Catholic).
>I assumed it was a local expression, as I hadn't heard it used that
>way in the South of England.
The earliest citation with this meaning in the OED seems to be to
Iona and Peter Opie's _The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren_,
1959, p. 344: "In Lancashire Roman Catholics are known as `Micks',
and in Dundee as `Left-footers'," at the beginning of a section on
"Sectarian Rhymes". The Opies don't (as far as I can tell by a
quick skim on the section) go any further into its distribution
or etymology.
If (by the way) Daniel, or anyone else who has "seen this ... in
print", has an earlier citation than 1959, I'm sure the OED would
be happy to have the information.
Lee "were C. S. Lewis's `Monopods' a veiled allegory
of Anglo-Catholic ecumenism?" Rudolph
Leslie Marshall
John Francis wrote:
>
>
> I have heard it used to refer to Catholics. This usage was amongst a
> group of my friends in Liverpool (including at least one Catholic).
> I assumed it was a local expression, as I hadn't heard it used that
> way in the South of England.
>
>
It is also used to refer to Catholics in the West of Scotland / Glasgow area
(well known for tolerance and understanding). Interestingly, in Glasgow
which "foot you kicked with" also determined which football team you
supported.
On no more authority than a long, drunken pub discussion of the topic I
would go for the genuflection explanation.
LRM
Leslie Marshall
Daniel Ucko wrote:
> I've had my fill of one-liners and meta, so I will try to add some
> signal now.
>
> Watching the FA Cup (Football Association Challenge Cup) 3rd round
> game (Watford - Arsenal, ended 2 - 4) this weekend, the subject of
> young Arsenal and England left-back Ashley Cole came up. Ashley Cole
> kicks for preference with his left foot, and is as such described as a
> 'left footer.'
>
re-reading the OP again I am vaguely remindered of an English league player
who was always described by one commentator in one of his Interesting
Things To Say About A Player as having an "educated left foot".
The literalist part of my brain would wonder how well educated it was. Did
it have a degree or was it just well read? Was his right foot less
educated? Did it leave school early?
The name of the player escapes me but I think he may also have been in the
Repiblic of Ireland team. Strike any cords?
LRM
John Francis
Leslie Marshall <mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> wrote:
>
>John Francis wrote:
>>
>> I have heard it used to refer to Catholics. This usage was amongst a
>> group of my friends in Liverpool (including at least one Catholic).
>> I assumed it was a local expression, as I hadn't heard it used that
>> way in the South of England.
>
>It is also used to refer to Catholics in the West of Scotland / Glasgow area
>(well known for tolerance and understanding). Interestingly, in Glasgow
>which "foot you kicked with" also determined which football team you
>supported.
This was also true in Liverpool. And, to a somewhat lesser extent,
in Manchester (I lived halfway between Maine Road and Old Trafford).
Which team did London Catholics support? And were significant numbers
of the players of Irish origin?
--
John "Cathedrals to spare" Francis
peter
whether this has anything to do with the side of the city their on I don't
know, just an observation.
Leslie Marshall
Shakib Otaqui wrote:
> In article <3C3C8126...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca>,
> Leslie Marshall <mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > re-reading the OP again I am vaguely remindered of an English league player
> > who was always described by one commentator in one of his Interesting
> > Things To Say About A Player as having an "educated left foot".
> >
> <snip literalist rambling>
> >
> > The name of the player escapes me but I think he may also have been in the
> > Repiblic of Ireland team. Strike any cords?
>
> Liam Brady?
>
yes, sounds right, thanks
LRM
TMOliver
news:8o5%7.2667$Hx3.5...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net:
> In Glasgow, Celtic are catholic, Rangers are protestant
> whether this has anything to do with the side of the city their
> on I don't know, just an observation.
>
As a child, here in what was then and to some extent remaineth,
ScotsIrse Prod Central Texas (well, it's McLennan County) RCs (a
term depending upon its usage indicating either Papists or Royal
Crown Cola) were known as "Mackerel Snappers", easy to understand,
but from what source?
TMO
Drew Lawson
I thought this was discussed recently (as an explanation for someone
not getting a joke).
Up until the rules changed (was this in Vatican 2?), Roman Catholics
were known for eating fish (as opposed to beef) on Fridays. There
are several names (in varying levels of insult) that are references
to that.
Drew "... now I'm American" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson | Though it's just a memory,
dr...@furrfu.com | some memories last forever
Phil Edwards
<ualm3u4jnt15b4cft...@4ax.com>, Daniel Ucko
<d.u...@physics.org> wrote:
>This thread, which was amongst the best that google could give me, is
>inconclusive (it gives me four suggestions in eight messages.)
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=65n6i0%24dha%40argon.btinternet.com
>[read whole thead.]
> Niall Graham: 'In Ireland, a one sided spade like implement
>was used for cutting turf. The locals had the blade on one side of the
>shaft, the settlers possibly to distinguish themselves, forged their
>spades with the blade on the other side which led to the euphemism "He
>digs with his left foot".'
<snip>
>Here we go again about spades
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=sschradeCLnBvL.MsK%40netcom.com
>'From "Belfast Diary" by John Conroy (Beacon Press, 1987): The
>Protestant spade has a short shaft topped by a T-shaped handle...
>[Catholic spades] have straight, long shafts, with no special handles;
>the digger is meant to hold those shovels by the shaft. Because of the
>difference in design, a man with a Protestant spade usually used his
>left foot for his labors, while a man with a long-shafted tool used
>his right. Today, an Irishman who has never lifted a spade, when
>unsure of a new acquantance's religion, may ask "What foot does he dig
>with?"'
I always understood that 'digging with the left foot' was supposedly
the mark of a Catholic. Flann O'Brien uses 'digs with the other foot'
somewhere, probably in one of his Myles na Gopaleen columns (1939-68),
but I've been unable to find it in a cursory search.
Phil "avoids digging" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"It's really sad that some folks think their opinion matters."
- K.D.
TMOliver
>
> Up until the rules changed (was this in Vatican 2?), Roman
> Catholics were known for eating fish (as opposed to beef) on
> Fridays. There are several names (in varying levels of insult)
> that are references to that.
>
>
> Drew "... now I'm American" Lawson
...I'm clear on the Friday Fish business, 'cuz shucks, we
Pisspoorpalians, castoff by the Anglics, did s also (Henry the VIII
working to protect the local fisherfok, sort of a reverse tax, we
were told), but the geographic/cultural origin of "mackerel
snapper" (instead of sardine-sucker, grunt-grabber, sturgeon-
slurper, etc.)
TMO (Don't put them damn anchovy stuffed olives in my martini!)
Nick Spalding
> I always understood that 'digging with the left foot' was supposedly
> the mark of a Catholic. Flann O'Brien uses 'digs with the other foot'
> somewhere, probably in one of his Myles na Gopaleen columns (1939-68),
> but I've been unable to find it in a cursory search.
> Phil "avoids digging" Edwards
Indeed. As a strictly nominal Protestant living in Ireland for nearly
40 years now I have very occasionally heard the 'other foot' usage, in
either direction, but never the 'left foot' one.
--
Nick Spalding
Leslie Marshall
Drew Lawson wrote:
> In article <Xns919266E75D8F...@208.232.233.21>
> TMOliver <TMOliver(DEL)@calpha.com> writes:
> >"
>
> Up until the rules changed (was this in Vatican 2?), Roman Catholics
> were known for eating fish (as opposed to beef) on Fridays. There
> are several names (in varying levels of insult) that are references
> to that.
>
I heard somewhere (it may even have been a question on Jeopardy) that
Mcdonalds originally introduced the fillet-o-fish for Catholics who
could not eat meat on Fridays. Neither snopes or google searches could
confirm or disprove this, anybody got info on this?
LR-o-M
Daniel Ucko
I was just going to say Chippy too, but football commentators not
being paragons of individuality, you'll find this clichee is used
about anyone who can kick with the left foot. Together with the lament
'but he doesn't have a right foot, does he?'
Daniel 'fluent in Ronglish' Ucko
--
JamiJo delenda est.
Len Berlind
TMOliver <TMOliver(DEL)@calpha.com> wrote:
>...I'm clear on the Friday Fish business, 'cuz shucks, we
>Pisspoorpalians, castoff by the Anglics, did s also (Henry the VIII
>working to protect the local fisherfok, sort of a reverse tax, we
>were told), but the geographic/cultural origin of "mackerel
>snapper" (instead of sardine-sucker, grunt-grabber, sturgeon-
>slurper, etc.)
Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:
"mackerel-snapper, noun, a Roman Catholic - used contemptuously. Earlier,
mackerel-snatcher."
First cite, California Historical Society Quarterly IX (1930):
"Mackerel-snatchers...Yankees...[and] abolitionists."
Seems a sothren sort of term, given the context.
L"Wot about the snapper-snatchers?"B
TMOliver
news:3C3E096F...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca:
>
> I heard somewhere (it may even have been a question on
> Jeopardy) that Mcdonalds originally introduced the
> fillet-o-fish for Catholics who could not eat meat on Fridays.
> Neither snopes or google searches could confirm or disprove
> this, anybody got info on this?
>
...on the other hand, the McRib sammitch was developed to torture
to poor Talibans who will be shut up in hot huts on Windward Point
down in Gitmo.
Yo, Omar, it's crab cakes and McRibs again tonight!
TMO
JKS
<mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> wrote:
Shakib and Leslie get ice cream for playing so nice. Thank you, you're welcome,
the magic words!
() ()
(__) (__)
(____) (____)
(______) (______)
(________) (________)
(__________) (__________)
\/\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/
\/\/\/ \/\/\/
\/\/ \/\/
\/ \/
-JKS
Dan Evans
> re-reading the OP again I am vaguely remindered of an English league player
> who was always described by one commentator in one of his Interesting
> Things To Say About A Player as having an "educated left foot".
Sounds better than another comment I once heard about a player, which
was that his left foot didn't do much except help to keep him from
falling down.
Dan "used to watch British football on the telly" Evans
Narelle
Daniel Ucko wrote:
For what its worth this site says that it is a term used by Protestants
to describe RC's, but can't find any back-up sorry...
http://www.wgma.org.uk/Publications/newsletterindex2.html
Narelle
>
Mike Holmans
>On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:46:52 -0500, Leslie Marshall
><mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> wrote:
>>Shakib Otaqui wrote:
>>> In article <3C3C8126...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca>,
>>> Leslie Marshall <mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> wrote:
>>> > re-reading the OP again I am vaguely remindered of an English league player
>>> > who was always described by one commentator in one of his Interesting
>>> > Things To Say About A Player as having an "educated left foot".
>>> Liam Brady?
>>>
>>
>>yes, sounds right, thanks
>
>I was just going to say Chippy too, but football commentators not
>being paragons of individuality, you'll find this clichee is used
>about anyone who can kick with the left foot. Together with the lament
>'but he doesn't have a right foot, does he?'
Are you sure about this? I thought there was the further qualification
that he has to be a midfield player who makes his living by passing
the ball to other people or kicking it where he thinks somebody might
be going to be at some point in the future. I don't think they say
that the left feet of strikers are "educated": their left feet are
either "powerful" or "deadly" or, on rare occasions, "prehensile", but
not "educated". And defenders' left feet aren't used for kicking the
ball anyway, so education doesn't really come into it.
Mike "school of hard knocks" Holmans
TeaLady
"JKS" <jsch...@qis.net> wrote in message
news:3c4f0b03....@news.newsguy.com...
snipt
>
> Shakib and Leslie get ice cream for playing so nice. Thank you,
you're welcome,
> the magic words!
>
>
> () ()
> (__) (__)
> (____) (____)
> (______) (______)
> (________) (________)
> (__________) (__________)
> \/\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/
> \/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/
> \/\/\/ \/\/\/
> \/\/ \/\/
> \/ \/
>
>
> -JKS
I am so very sorry, but these look more like a Madonna outfit than,
well, whatever they are. (Ice cream cones ? Candy corn ?)
TeaLady
deacon b.
<mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> posted something that included:
>I heard somewhere (it may even have been a question on Jeopardy) that
>Mcdonalds originally introduced the fillet-o-fish for Catholics who
>could not eat meat on Fridays. Neither snopes or google searches could
>confirm or disprove this, anybody got info on this?
http://www.media.mcdonalds.com/secured/products/history/filetfish.html
says:
Lou Groen owned one restaurant in a Roman Catholic neighborhood in
Cincinnati, Ohio, and he developed a fish sandwich to attract
customers on "meat-less Fridays." The product was so successful that
we worked with Gorton's of Gloucester to develop a process for
creating a fish sandwich that met McDonald's specifications for
quality, taste, and standardized preparation. Thus, the Filet-O-Fish
sandwich became the first addition to McDonald's original menu in
1963.
deacon "2, 3, 2, and 2, please" b.
--
Ambition is a poor excuse for
not having enough sense to be lazy.
JG
Robert Mitchum called 'em "mackerel snappers" in "Heaven Knows, Mr.
Allison" (1957). When Deborah Kerr, who played a nun-to-be one month
away from taking her final vows, asked about these "snappers," Mr.
Allison recovered by saying "they make fine Marines." He also called
the Japanese Zeros "Meatballs."
JLG
Leslie Marshall
JKS wrote:
words fail me (that will be a first) a woosh bird AND an ice cream within the space
of three days, I'm touched (but that's another story)
LRM
Leslie Marshall
"deacon b." wrote:
> http://www.media.mcdonalds.com/secured/products/history/filetfish.html
> says:
>
> Lou Groen owned one restaurant in a Roman Catholic neighborhood in
> Cincinnati, Ohio, and he developed a fish sandwich to attract
> customers on "meat-less Fridays." The product was so successful that
> we worked with Gorton's of Gloucester to develop a process for
> creating a fish sandwich that met McDonald's specifications for
> quality, taste, and standardized preparation. Thus, the Filet-O-Fish
> sandwich became the first addition to McDonald's original menu in
> 1963.
>
I note that it says McDonald's "specifications" for quality and taste rather
than standards which might imply a value judgment. Is their definition of
"fish" as loose as their definition of "beef"?
LR "hold the slimy green thing" M
Leslie Marshall
Mike Holmans wrote:
>
> >I was just going to say Chippy too, but football commentators not
> >being paragons of individuality, you'll find this clichee is used
> >about anyone who can kick with the left foot. Together with the lament
> >'but he doesn't have a right foot, does he?'
>
> Are you sure about this? I thought there was the further qualification
> that he has to be a midfield player who makes his living by passing
> the ball to other people or kicking it where he thinks somebody might
> be going to be at some point in the future. I don't think they say
> that the left feet of strikers are "educated": their left feet are
> either "powerful" or "deadly" or, on rare occasions, "prehensile", but
> not "educated". And defenders' left feet aren't used for kicking the
> ball anyway, so education doesn't really come into it.
>
I thought that, before descending into clichedom, the term originally described a
player who was naturally right footed but had developed the ablity to kick with his
left foot (a) with some accuracy and (b) without falling over. I agree that it does
suggest a degree of finesse but that wouldn't exclude strikers.
It also bring up the use of the phase "he kicks with either foot" which I have heard
used to mean that a person's sexual orientation is ambiguous.
LR "but that's a whole new ball game" M
Drew Lawson
Loose in what manner?
Or ar you just falling for other ULs?
Drew "all beef patties" Lawson
Mike Holmans
>Mike Holmans wrote:
>> Are you sure about this? I thought there was the further qualification
>> that he has to be a midfield player who makes his living by passing
>> the ball to other people or kicking it where he thinks somebody might
>> be going to be at some point in the future. I don't think they say
>> that the left feet of strikers are "educated": their left feet are
>> either "powerful" or "deadly" or, on rare occasions, "prehensile", but
>> not "educated". And defenders' left feet aren't used for kicking the
>> ball anyway, so education doesn't really come into it.
>>
>
>I thought that, before descending into clichedom, the term originally described a
>player who was naturally right footed but had developed the ablity to kick with his
>left foot (a) with some accuracy and (b) without falling over. I agree that it does
>suggest a degree of finesse but that wouldn't exclude strikers.
I wouldn't have thought so. "Educated" left feet are those which chip
the ball to clever places. They're most usually owned by people who
have always used them for preference, rather than training them as
late developers.
Mike "owner of two left feet when it comes to foopbore" Holmans
Daniel Ucko
>Daniel Ucko <d.u...@physics.org> decided to say:
>
>>>I was just going to say Chippy too, but football commentators not
>>being paragons of individuality, you'll find this clichee is used
>>about anyone who can kick with the left foot. Together with the lament
>>'but he doesn't have a right foot, does he?'
>
>Are you sure about this? I thought there was the further qualification
>that he has to be a midfield player who makes his living by passing
>the ball to other people or kicking it where he thinks somebody might
>be going to be at some point in the future.
I was more than a bit clumsy in expressing that. I'd like the previous
comment stricken from the record, or at least rephrased to read: 'a
player with an "educated left foot" is one who uses his left foot
predominately and with skill for chips, crosses and free kicks.' As
you write later in this same thread. See Roberto Carlos, Liam Brady in
his day, Zinedine Zidane or Luis Figo. Also, coming along nicely,
Ashley Cole, and my football geek friend also suggests Andy Booth. He
can be a midfielder or often also a fullback. He is rarely a striker.
>I don't think they say
>that the left feet of strikers are "educated": their left feet are
>either "powerful" or "deadly" or, on rare occasions, "prehensile", but
>not "educated".
Yes, this pretty much tallies with what I know. Apart from
'prehensile,' which I have never heard. What kind of posh club do you
follow? What are the terrace chants like: 'Ooh Aah Bollinger!'?
>And defenders' left feet aren't used for kicking the
>ball anyway, so education doesn't really come into it.
Centrebacks yes, fullbacks no. Fullbacks are often relied upon to
bring the ball up to offensive play quickly. There is quite some
difference in what makes a good centreback and what makes a good
fullback.
Daniel
--
JamiJo delenda est.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> ...I'm clear on the Friday Fish business, 'cuz shucks, we
> Pisspoorpalians, castoff by the Anglics, did s also (Henry the VIII
> working to protect the local fisherfok, sort of a reverse tax, we
> were told), but the geographic/cultural origin of "mackerel
> snapper" (instead of sardine-sucker, grunt-grabber, sturgeon-
> slurper, etc.)
As data points, it was the term I most often heard in both
Florida and Louisiana, and I definitely heard it before 1954.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
--
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping the
chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like sae mony
road-makers run daft -- they say it is to see how
the warld was made!"
Mike Holmans
<d.u...@physics.org> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
>Mike Holmans <mi...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I don't think they say
>>that the left feet of strikers are "educated": their left feet are
>>either "powerful" or "deadly" or, on rare occasions, "prehensile", but
>>not "educated".
>
>Yes, this pretty much tallies with what I know. Apart from
>'prehensile,' which I have never heard. What kind of posh club do you
>follow? What are the terrace chants like: 'Ooh Aah Bollinger!'?
The kind of posh club I follow is MCC, and Bollinger do run their own
bar on major match days.
But that's not football, which I don't follow in any serious way, just
read things in the paper. So it's entirely possible that no real
commentator has ever described a striker's left foot as "prehensile",
and that it's simply one of those things I've picked up from Ron
Manager.
Mike "marvellous" Holmans
Daniel Ucko
<mi...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Twas on Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:33:18 +0000 that Daniel Ucko
><d.u...@physics.org> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
>
>>Mike Holmans <mi...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>
>>>I don't think they say
>>>that the left feet of strikers are "educated": their left feet are
>>>either "powerful" or "deadly" or, on rare occasions, "prehensile", but
>>>not "educated".
>>
>>Yes, this pretty much tallies with what I know. Apart from
>>'prehensile,' which I have never heard. What kind of posh club do you
>>follow? What are the terrace chants like: 'Ooh Aah Bollinger!'?
>
>The kind of posh club I follow is MCC, and Bollinger do run their own
>bar on major match days.
I clearly chose the wrong sport to follow. We can't even bring beer
into Highbury.
Daniel 'not that I go very often now that I live in Birmingham' Ucko
--
JamiJo delenda est.
Kelsey Bjarnason
> In article <3C3F2ABB...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca>
> Leslie Marshall <mars...@mail.mohawkc.on.ca> writes:
>>
>>
>>"deacon b." wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.media.mcdonalds.com/secured/products/history/filetfish.html
>>> says:
>>>
>>> Lou Groen owned one restaurant in a Roman Catholic neighborhood in
>>> Cincinnati, Ohio, and he developed a fish sandwich to attract
>>> customers on "meat-less Fridays." The product was so successful that
>>> we worked with Gorton's of Gloucester to develop a process for
>>> creating a fish sandwich that met McDonald's specifications for
>>> quality, taste, and standardized preparation. Thus, the Filet-O-Fish
>>> sandwich became the first addition to McDonald's original menu in
>>> 1963.
>>>
>>>
>>I note that it says McDonald's "specifications" for quality and taste
>>rather than standards which might imply a value judgment. Is their
>>definition of "fish" as loose as their definition of "beef"?
>
> Loose in what manner?
> Or ar you just falling for other ULs?
What, you've never heard the unofficial slogan? "Over 200 billion served
- and we just slaughted our 52nd cow." :)
Edward A Dimmick
>
> "JKS" <jsch...@qis.net> wrote in message
> news:3c4f0b03....@news.newsguy.com...
> snipt
> >
> >
> >
> > (__) (__)
> > (____) (____)
> > (______) (______)
> > (________) (________)
> > (__________) (__________)
> > \/\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/
> > \/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/
> > \/\/\/ \/\/\/
> > \/\/ \/\/
> > \/ \/
> >
> >
> > -JKS
>
> I am so very sorry, but these look more like a Madonna outfit than,
> well, whatever they are. (Ice cream cones ? Candy corn ?)
>
> TeaLady
Piles of dog poo in the afternoon sun...