Dried Rat Piss on stored soda cans causes death...
Dane Hutchins
from the U.S. Department of Commerce. I responded by telling him how
unlikely the whole tale is and that most warning rumors sent over the
internet were untrue, with pointers to this (and other) online resources for
enlightenment and/or verification. Believing it to be total nonsense, and
not wishing to spend much time on it, I haven't tried to verify the email or
phone links (other than to search for the sender's name on www.four11.com,
with negative results), but suggested that he (or whoever sent him the
warning) should do so.
-------------------------------
Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
you wash the top with running water and soap or, if not available, drink
with a straw. A family friend died after drinking a can of soda! Apparently,
she didn't clean the top before drinking from the can. The top was
encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
Canned drinks and other food stuff are stored in warehouses and containers
that are usually infested with rodents and then get transported to the
retail outlets without being properly cleaned. So you know what to do from
now on folks........... Please pass this to whom ever you know drink can
sodas.........
LaShawn Baylor
U.S. Department of Commerce
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Data Services Division
4700 Silver Hill Road
Room 3320 E/SP3
Washington, D.C. 20233-9909
Telephone: 301-457-5681
Fax: 301-568-8649
E-Mail: lba...@nesdis.noaa.gov >>
Clayton Cochrane
has a website and her name was listed.
Barbara N
>
>The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
>from the U.S. Department of Commerce.
>-------------------------------
>Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
>Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
>you wash the top with running water and soap
This is sensible advice..
>The top was
>encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
If something was "encrusted" don't you think it would be obvious to
clean it off??? I can think of other germs, possibly more lethal,
that would not be visible... although a lot die in fresh air.
And, is rat's urine even lethal?
barbara N
Cogito Ergo Zoom (Lauren)
>In article <b8%t2.1351$4B6...@news.rdc2.occa.home.com>, "Dane says...
>>
>>The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
>>from the U.S. Department of Commerce.
><snip>
>>-------------------------------
>>Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
>>Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
>>you wash the top with running water and soap
>
>This is sensible advice..
>
Agreed - I often because there is often visible crud on the top of the can.
>And, is rat's urine even lethal?
Let's test it on lab rats and find out.
LCB
Eric Christopher
<snip>
> >The top was
> >encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
>
> If something was "encrusted" don't you think it would be obvious to
> clean it off??? I can think of other germs, possibly more lethal,
> that would not be visible... although a lot die in fresh air.
>
> And, is rat's urine even lethal?
>
Disgusting? Yes. Toxic in large amounts? Probably. Lethal? Not unless
it filled the can of coke :)
-eric
Wal...@dnvn.com
<barb...@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> In article <b8%t2.1351$4B6...@news.rdc2.occa.home.com>, "Dane says...
> >
> >The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
> >from the U.S. Department of Commerce.
> <snip>
> >-------------------------------
> >Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
> >Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
> >you wash the top with running water and soap
>
> This is sensible advice..
>
> >The top was
> >encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
>
> If something was "encrusted" don't you think it would be obvious to
> clean it off??? I can think of other germs, possibly more lethal,
> that would not be visible... although a lot die in fresh air.
>
> And, is rat's urine even lethal?
>
> barbara N
Misses the point. In this era of tabloid 'news shows' like Dateline
etc flogging every slimey trivial little domestic violence murder
in hopes of getting ratings, it is impossible to imagine that these
'secret' 'hidden' dangers would not be exploited to the full. The
snake in the ball pit, the lethal rat piss and the children blinded
by waterproof sunscreen would be all over the screen if they were
actually happening.
Any warning that asks one to 'send it to everyone you know' -- presumably
because OTHERWISE they would NEVER know about the danger is an obvious
hoax. But I hope you can send your business card . . . .
Crash Johnson
trying to piss off the person with the return address at the bottom? Do you
understand the concept of unlimited propagation? Am I paranoid because the
thought occurred to me? Have you ever heard of jic...@aol.com ?
Clayton Cochrane wrote in message ...
>I sent an email to this person asking if it was fake or real. The NOAA
>has a website and her name was listed.
>On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Dane Hutchins wrote:
>> The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
>> from the U.S. Department of Commerce.
<snip description of ordinary good hygene practice of cleaning off container
before sucking out contents>
Crash 'will clean cans for food' Johnson
<>
eos...@cybergraphic.com.au
"Dane Hutchins" <dlhut...@home.com> wrote:
<snip rat-piss on cans story>
My grandmother used to tell me this one when I was a kid. However, in her
version it was tomcats, not rats. This was in the late seventies. I don't know
why it's suddenly making the rounds now, (didn't we have this exact same
version crop up a couple of months ago?) but I all these buried scare-stories
seem to be gradually coming up again now that we've got the Internet for
lightning-fast dissemination.
emma "still waiting for the one about getting AIDS from toilet seats" osman
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
dlvlasek
<79atbl$dnj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> My grandmother used to tell me this one when I was a kid. However, in her
> version it was tomcats, not rats.
Here's another version... A former cow orker was married to a trucker,
formerly in the employ of one of the big sody-pop companies. He (the
trucker) told her (the cow) (orker) that the drivers and warehouse guys
pissed on the cans. Not some silly lil' rats or cats, but big, burly men.
Nick Spalding
> And, is rat's urine even lethal?
Not per se perhaps, but there is this in Grolier.
leptospirosis
{lep-tuh-spy-roh'-sis}
Leptospirosis, or Weil's disease, is an acute fever caused by a spiral
bacteria, Leptospira (see SPIROCHETE), communicated from animals to
humans, commonly through skin contact with rat-infested water or
sewage. It often takes a fatal form characterized by jaundice and
bleeding. Leptospira may also cause MENINGITIS. Treatment is with
penicillin
--
Nick Spalding
Cogito Ergo Zoom (Lauren)
>Here's another version... A former cow orker was married to a trucker,
>formerly in the employ of one of the big sody-pop companies. He (the
>trucker) told her (the cow) (orker) that the drivers and warehouse guys
>pissed on the cans. Not some silly lil' rats or cats, but big, burly men.
>
Now that has to be lethal! "Every one knows" big burly manly piss is lethal on
contact - you don't have to even drink it.
LCB
Ron's Inspector's Inspector
|The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
|unlikely the whole tale is and that most warning rumors sent over the
|internet were untrue, with pointers to this (and other) online resources
for
|enlightenment and/or verification. Believing it to be total nonsense, and
|not wishing to spend much time on it, I haven't tried to verify the email
or
|phone links (other than to search for the sender's name on www.four11.com,
|with negative results), but suggested that he (or whoever sent him the
|warning) should do so.
|
|
It's a phony; the mailing address was in D.C., but the telephone numbers
given had Maryland area codes.
Bruce Girrell
>I responded by telling him how unlikely the whole tale is...
along with a FOAF rat piss story.
The blurb that you quoted does not say where the incident occurred, but in
certain parts of the US (and possibly other places), hantavirus is a very
real, often deadly disease [1]contracted through contact with rodent urine
or feces.
Bruce "don't eat the yellow snow" Girrell
[1] To be more specific, hantavirus pulmonary syndrome is the name of the
disease; , hantavirus is merely the agent.
Anonymous
Please, folks, for your own safety, read and heed.
> The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
> from the U.S. Department of Commerce. I responded by telling him how
> unlikely the whole tale is and that most warning rumors sent over the
> internet were untrue, with pointers to this (and other) online resources for
> enlightenment and/or verification. Believing it to be total nonsense, and
> not wishing to spend much time on it, I haven't tried to verify the email or
> phone links (other than to search for the sender's name on www.four11.com,
> with negative results), but suggested that he (or whoever sent him the
> warning) should do so.
Don't be so quick to dismiss this. Being stored in a place where there
may be rats it could be that rat poison may have been dispersed onto the
cans. Also rat urine contains other hazards that may not be lethal but
are definitely unpleasant.
> -------------------------------
> Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
>
> Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
> you wash the top with running water and soap or, if not available, drink
> with a straw. A family friend died after drinking a can of soda! Apparently,
> she didn't clean the top before drinking from the can. The top was
> encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
Happy Dog
> "Dane Hutchins" <dlhut...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
> > from the U.S. Department of Commerce. I responded by telling him how
> > unlikely the whole tale is and that most warning rumors sent over the
> > internet were untrue, with pointers to this (and other) online resources for
> > enlightenment and/or verification. Believing it to be total nonsense, and
> > not wishing to spend much time on it, I haven't tried to verify the email or
> > phone links (other than to search for the sender's name on www.four11.com,
> > with negative results), but suggested that he (or whoever sent him the
> > warning) should do so.
>
> Don't be so quick to dismiss this. Being stored in a place where there
> may be rats it could be that rat poison may have been dispersed onto the
> cans. Also rat urine contains other hazards that may not be lethal but
> are definitely unpleasant.
Rat poison won't harm humans in the doses that could be found on a soda tin. Rat
urine isn't particularly toxic. This is a scam. Relax.
hd
Simon Slavin
Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
> [snip]
If you reply to this post, please send your response to just those
groups for which you've read the FAQ. Posting to a group when you
haven't read the FAQ for that group will annoy the regular readers
and make you look stupid.
Simon.
--
No junk email please. <http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk>
"On the same page we will use three or four colours
of ink, or even 20 different typefaces if necessary."
Marinetti, in 1913, predicting WYSIWYG editing and web site design.
Harbin Osteen
Happy Dog wrote:
> Anonymous wrote:
>
> > "Dane Hutchins" <dlhut...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
> > > from the U.S. Department of Commerce. I responded by telling him how
> > > unlikely the whole tale is and that most warning rumors sent over the
> > > internet were untrue, with pointers to this (and other) online resources for
> > > enlightenment and/or verification. Believing it to be total nonsense, and
> > > not wishing to spend much time on it, I haven't tried to verify the email or
> > > phone links (other than to search for the sender's name on www.four11.com,
> > > with negative results), but suggested that he (or whoever sent him the
> > > warning) should do so.
> >
> > Don't be so quick to dismiss this. Being stored in a place where there
> > may be rats it could be that rat poison may have been dispersed onto the
> > cans. Also rat urine contains other hazards that may not be lethal but
> > are definitely unpleasant.
>
> Rat poison won't harm humans in the doses that could be found on a soda tin. Rat
> urine isn't particularly toxic. This is a scam. Relax.
> hd
>
Howdy Y'all:
Rat Poison is not the problem, Hanta virus, carried by the Deer Mouse is.
Death is quick, a day or two. Remember the breakout in the Navaho Nation a few years back?
There was a large a large breakout during the Korean War, that killed our troops too.
Q. I've been hearing about Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome (HPS) in the news
recently? What is it?
A. HPS is a serious respiratory disease carried by certain wild rodents, mainly deer mice, and
is passed to humans through contact with a rodents infected urine, droppings or saliva.
Breathing in contaminated mist or dust is the most common form of transmission.
Q. How serious is it?
A. HPS is extremely serious and can be fatal; the case fatality rate is high. As of June 19, 1998,
there have been 185 cases recognized nationwide with a case fatality of 44 percent. In
Colorado, there have been 13 cases resulting in 9 deaths for a fatality rate of 69 percent.
For more info on this virus:
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hanta/hantafaq.html
--
SeeYaa:) Harbin Osteen
MUSCLE CAR MANIA L.T.D.
Over 2500 General Links!
http://www.ca-connection.com/~muscle/INDEX.htm
!sdohtem noitpyrcne devorppa-tnemnrevog troppus I
Do you fly? Want to live?:
http://www.communique.com/aircrash.html
Barbara Mikkelson
There's nothing "lethal" about urine from a healthy rat, so you should
dismiss any scare that bases its claim on this point. Moreover, no
such death as is claimed in the letter was reported in the media.
With all that said though, there is a bit of fire lurking beneath all
this smoke. Leptospirosis, better known as Weil's disease, is a
potentially deadly illness caused by bacteria passed along to humans in
contact with urine from diseased animals (rats, frogs, rabbits, snakes,
pigs and dogs). Hantavirus as well can be passed along by breathing in
airborne particles of an infected rodent's urine, droppings or saliva
-- no mouth-to-soda-can contact necessary.
Barbara "(dis)ease of mind" Mikkelson
--
Barbara Mikkelson | Don't get angry at the New Agers. Sell them
hben...@email.csun.edu | something. - Stephan Zielinski
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Urban legends and more --> http://www.snopes.com
Lynn K Busby
>> from the U.S. Department of Commerce. I responded by telling him how
>> unlikely the whole tale is and that most warning rumors sent over the
>> internet were untrue, with pointers to this (and other) online resources for
>> enlightenment and/or verification. Believing it to be total nonsense, and
>> not wishing to spend much time on it, I haven't tried to verify the email or
>> phone links (other than to search for the sender's name on www.four11.com,
>> with negative results), but suggested that he (or whoever sent him the
>> warning) should do so.
>
>Don't be so quick to dismiss this. Being stored in a place where there
>may be rats it could be that rat poison may have been dispersed onto the
>cans. Also rat urine contains other hazards that may not be lethal but
>are definitely unpleasant.
>
>> Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
>>
>> Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
>> you wash the top with running water and soap or, if not available, drink
>> with a straw. A family friend died after drinking a can of soda! Apparently,
>> she didn't clean the top before drinking from the can. The top was
>> encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
>> Canned drinks and other food stuff are stored in warehouses and containers
>> that are usually infested with rodents and then get transported to the
>> retail outlets without being properly cleaned. So you know what to do from
>> now on folks........... Please pass this to whom ever you know drink can
>> sodas.........
>
>
large amount to actually die! This sounds like a scam to me. I am sure
that in the US, the same as the UK, cans of coke etc are stored in
shrink-wrapped plastic outers. I'd forget it.
--
Lynn K Busby
JAK
Steve
is lethal.
http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/speleo/weils.html
Mary Shafer
> Rat Poison is not the problem, Hanta virus, carried by the Deer
> Mouse is. Death is quick, a day or two. Remember the breakout in
> the Navaho Nation a few years back?
It was not just in the Navaho Nation--a number of non-Navaho people
also contracted hantavirus in the outbreak. There have been
subsequent cases in Northern California and elsewhere. It was never
specifically a Navaho disease, any more than AIDS was Haitian.
In fact, I recall a fellow in Oklahoma posting to sci.med about his
girlfriend's terrible and unknown respiratory illness during the
outbreak. Neither of them were Navaho.
--
Mary Shafer NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer Of course I don't speak for NASA
sha...@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov DoD #362 KotFR
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
For personal messages, please use sha...@ursa-major.spdcc.com
Anonymous
> What about the Hantivirus???
I think this Urban Legend has been vorified and
can now be marked as "T"rue.
Wash your pop cans and don'r store 'em on the
basement floor.
Thanks, Cano.
Mike Hutchinson
<ly...@phoenixcons.demon.co.uk> writes
>I am sure rat piss is unpleasant, but you'd probably need to take in a
>large amount to actually die! This sounds like a scam to me. I am sure
>that in the US, the same as the UK, cans of coke etc are stored in
>shrink-wrapped plastic outers. I'd forget it.
While generally agreeing with Lynn, especially regarding the plastic
wrapping, can't people can catch Weil's Disease from swimming in water
contaminated by rats' urine?
--
Mike Hutchinson
www.hutch.demon.co.uk for details of my book 'Bizarre Beliefs'
Please remove "no.rubbish" from reply to address
Dave Bugg
outbreak on the Reservation -- which was the first major Hantavirus outbreak
to gain CDC attention. Harbin also mentioned soldiers during the Korean War
being affected with Hantavirus. I'm quite sure that Harbin didn't imply
that this was a Korean disease or an American soldier's disease either. It
seems that your PC hackles are on overdrive.
Mary Shafer wrote in message ...
Dave Bugg
Out of Balance", by Laurie Garrett. She is not with the CDC, she is a
journalist. Rats and their urine have not been determined to be a
reservoir for hemorragic fever viruses like Marburg or Ebola. A review of
the book follows.
From Booklist , September 1, 1994
This might have been a sensation-seeking book that stirs things up briefly,
then quickly disappears, but Garrett has studied the scientific and popular
literature, interviewed many knowledgeable individuals, and constructed a
cogent, well-documented, far-reaching argument. The main points of that
argument include the fact that careless use of antibiotics has led to the
growth of drug-resistant strains and species of microbes, the fact that
microbial mutations are not necessarily random events, and the facts of the
influences of urbanization and increasing military expenditures on public
health. Further, she cites the roles of global warming, pollution of oceans,
and shortsighted politicians in helping spread disease. She makes all her
points about those phenomena through compelling, detailed epidemiological
examples. The major injunction arising from her argument is that, because
humanity is sitting on a powder keg of disease, every country must provide
adequate funds or cooperative support for the fieldwork and research aspects
of public health and preventive medicine. If they do not, Homo sapiens will
become an endangered species.
*****************
Morris wrote in message <36BB955F...@dit.net>...
>I once read a big thick book by some lady at the CDC about the coming
>virus plague. It recounted the investigation of some virus outbreaks,
>including some Ebola like hemmorragic fever in south america. The source
>was..... you guessed it.... rat urine.
>
>It seems like a reasonable practice to wash the tops of all cans before
>you you open them. Not just sodas. I bought and like the type of can
>opener that cuts the side of the can and lifts the lid off clamped to
>the opener. The lid does not fall into the soup this way. As for canned
>soda. YECH. Don't drink them at all, if the rat urine doesn't get you
>the soda will.
>
>-Morris
maryf
--
Mary f. <No Kitty! it's MY POT PIE!>
_ _
( \ / )
|\ ) ) _,,,/ (,,_
/, . '`~ ~-. ;-;;,_
|,4) -,_. , ( `'-'
'-~~' (_/~~' `-'\_)
It's a widdle,widdle, widdle pud (Rat, Rat, darn that thing's bigger
than I am!!! turning
tail and running)
http://home.earthlink.net/~maryf
Charlie Sorsby
Cogito Ergo Zoom (Lauren) <CogitoE...@GeoCities.com> wrote:
= On 3 Feb 1999 09:44:10 -0800, Barbara N <barb...@eudoramail.com> wrote:
=
= >In article <b8%t2.1351$4B6...@news.rdc2.occa.home.com>, "Dane says...
= >>
= >>The email below was sent to me by my nephew, purportedly issued directly
= >>from the U.S. Department of Commerce.
= ><snip>
= >>-------------------------------
= >>Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
= >>Whenever you buy a can of coke or other canned soda, please make sure that
= >>you wash the top with running water and soap
[...]
=
= >And, is rat's urine even lethal?
It can be if it includes the hanta virus that was causing deaths in
the US southwest a few years ago.
--
Best regards,
Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Wheeling, WV "I'm the NRA!"
c...@hgo.net www.hgo.net/~crs USA Life Member since 1965
joy
Please remove alt.diet.support from your headers.
cheers
Joy
dkh
<79fl4v$a55$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>...
> Who said it was specific to the Navajo? Harbin merely mentioned the
> outbreak on the Reservation -- which was the first major Hantavirus
outbreak
> to gain CDC attention.
Wow, look at all them headers.
Rodent contamination, either droppings or piss, is bad news anytime. I'm
posting in misc.survivalism, and this is especially of interest here. I
allowed white footed mice to get to my cooking gear and neglected to wash
it with hot, soapy water before using. I was incapacitated in a remote area
for three weeks and ran out of food the last day. Barely made it out alive.
Death to all mice! And keep your kitchen clean.
Morris
Daniel Swan
>> A family friend died after drinking a can of soda! Apparently,
>> she didn't clean the top before drinking from the can. The top was
>> encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
Anyone who drinks from a can 'encrusted with rat's urine', deserves to die
anyhow.
Where's the problem?
--
............................................................................
"And if you want to Swan, one to one, kid... we don't need the pond"
-Prefab Sprout
(Still Seeking a Commodore Pet, Space Invaders, or Black Tiger.)
............................................................................
www.geocities.com/pentagon/bunker/1022 swan_...@hotmail.com
Morris
about one worldism, very politically correct, very boring in places, awfully
depressing to read. But the book did attribute the hemorragic fever to
contamination by rat urine, at least in South America. It was not Ebola, nor
Marburg, but just some related less potent but still lethal fever in South
America. In a remote village, maybe in Paraguay. The rats ran along the ceiling
rafters and fouled the space beneath them with excretement. When there were a
lot of rats there was a lot of fever. Anyway, resevoir, vector, yadda yadda
yadda, I am no epidemiologist and I do not have the vocabulary to be precise.
Was the book just plain wrong about rat urine, how do we know? Can't trust a
journalist ? I have read other books that concluded you could not trust the CDC.
Do you wash off can tops ? How about if they just plain look dirty? Do you wash
the outside of a canteloupe before you cut it ? Basic hygene for some. Paranoia
for others.
-Morris
Dave Bugg wrote:
Barbara N
>= On 3 Feb 1999 09:44:10 -0800, Barbara N <barb...@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>= >And, is rat's urine even lethal?
>
>It can be if it includes the hanta virus that was causing deaths in
>the US southwest a few years ago.
Hanta virus being airborne surely would have made others sick
previous to the end user's handling of the can...
barbara n
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Nope.
Weil's Disease is spread by drinking WATER contaminated with
rat urine. No credible evidence to my knowledge that the
Leptospirosis bacterium survives in _dried_ rat urine.
Ian?
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Dave Bugg
other things which Garrett wrote about were very accurate. As a journalist,
Garrett knows how to gather information and to write about that information.
What Garrett lacks is the scientific training or knowledge to analyze what
she is writing about and then determine its relevance to the population at
large. She has relied on what various individuals within the scientific
community *tell* her about these diseases.
If her scientific sources are valid, then her information is likely to be
valid ---- and vice-versa. The conundrum for the lay-population is this:
how can one determine the scientific validity of a reporters sources, if one
doesn't have a science background sufficient to sort the garbage from the
gold? Scientific snake-oil is sold by the barrel because it *is* difficult
for the majority of people to know good science from junk science.
Info-mercials rule the airwaves because it is so easy to make snake-oil look
valid.
Are journalists trustworthy? Is Garrett a trustworthy journalist? I have
no opinion about Garrett herself, other than to say that I don't believe she
intentionally meant to deceive, mislead or fictionalize what she *believed*
to be fact. In the cold, stark reality of scientific facts, however, not
everything she said in her book was correct.
There are some diseases which can mimic true hemorraghic fever viral
illnesses. These "mimics" are not caused by viruses, are not as aggressive
and do not produce the same levels of morbidity and mortality (injury and
death) as the severely lethal filoviruses.
Do I clean the lids of cans and jars before opening? Yup. I spritz the
tops with a 1:10 bleach solution, rinse and *then* open. It takes just a few
extra seconds to do this since my spray bottle is right on the counter next
to the sink. To prepare the solution fresh each day, it takes me all of
about 45 seconds to pour the bleach to a line marked on the plastic spray
bottle I picked up at K-Mart, and then to fill it the rest of the way with
tap water. The solution has to be replaced each day.
****************************
Morris wrote in message <36BC8886...@dit.net>...
jerry and judy
<db...@crcwnet.com> wrote:
Does bleach effectively 'unravel' viruses or are you just better able to
wash them and their medium off the can?
The flesh-eating microbe that the US GI's brought back after the Korean
conflict. It was named for the Han River.
From INFECTIOUS DISEASES OF MICE AND RATS (http://vetpath1.afip.mil/micerat.txt)
Hemorrhagic Fever with Renal Syndrome (HFRS) Virus
1. Prevalence: widespread in wild Norway rats. Rare in laboratory rats.
2. Diagnosis: serology
3. Disease: none reported in rats, but not thoroughly evaluated
4. Transmission: urine, saliva, respiratory
5. Duration: chronic
6. Comment: Zoonotic. Synonyms: Korean hemorrhagic fever, muroid virus
nephropathy, Hantaan virus (single virus), Hanta virus. Proteinuria,
azotemia, petechiae, hemoconcentration, hypotension, renal failure, etc.
in humans. Recovery usual, but several fatal cases recently reported in
Southwest associated with Peromyscus mouse reservoir. Rat Coronaviruses.
jerry and judy
Liz S
lose effectiveness when exposed to the sun? Or do you just run out?
Dave Bugg
reduction may not be evident exactly *at* 24 hours, and may remain potent
much longer if stored in an airtight container. However, the CDC and the
EPA recommend changing home prepared bleach solutions every 24 hours. Since
bleach is cheap, and the solution is easy to prepare, I find the
recommendation to be a reasonable way to assure quality.
Liz S wrote in message <36BCFC0C...@theadmins.com>...
Dave Bugg
or, in the case of a retrovirus like HIV, its RNA, effectively destroying
it. Soaps and detergents that are used for washing hands or objects, act as
surfactants which make the hands or object "slippery" to a micro-organism.
Combined with running water, this will help eliminate infection by reducing
the number of organisms to below the threshold needed to accomplish
infection.
As noted from the information you provided below, the "hemorraghic" part of
the fever in HFRS is restricted, usually, to the kidneys. The Filovirus
variety, however, involves all organ systems and mucous membrane surfaces,
which are aggressively attacked causing massive rupturing of cells. The
integrity of blood vessels is lost, causing profuse bleeding into the brain
and abdominal cavity and from all orifices, nail beds and skin follicles.
HFRS has very low death rate, Filoviral induced hemorraghic fevers like
Ebola have mortality rates in excess of 92%.
If Garrett was lumping all hemorraghic fever syndromes together, without
separating them by how they affect the body, it obviously left readers
thinking that Filovirus driven hemorraghic fever diseases, like Ebola or
Marburg, are in danger of being transmitted through rodent leavings, which
they are not. Other lesser viruses and some bacteria may produce something
described as a "hemorraghic fever", and even incorporate "hemorraghic
fever" into the name of a diagnostic disease syndrome; but this does not
mean that the causes and methods of transmission are the same.
**********************
jerry and judy wrote in message ...
Dave Bugg
"evaporation of the bleach" to incorrectly describe the breakdown.
As to the level of sterilization/pasteurization to employ in our everyday
lives, I prefer to remain cautious --- not obsessive mind you --- when
preparing foods.
************
deke.sp...@generous.net wrote in message
<36bd11de....@news.bright.net>...
>On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:18:16 -0800, "Dave Bugg" <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote:
>
> >There is an evaporation of the bleach that reduces it's potency.
>
>Not evaporation. That's a physical process. Evaporation would *increase*
the
>potency of the bleach solution.
>
>Bleach is a sodium hypochlorite solution; like hydrogen peroxide, it breaks
down
>chemically. Both sunlight and the minerals in your tap water will speed the
>breakdown. Twenty-four hours seems awfully fast for it to break down, but
as you
>say, bleach is cheap.
>
>Some people scrub baked potatoes and then refuse to eat the skins. Other
people
>don't even rinse off the potatoes, and think the skins the best part. With
a new
>baby, you boil the nipples for a half-hour. When your third kid is 2 years
old,
>you pull the nipple out of the dishwasher, drop it on the floor, blow on
it,
>brush it against your sleeve, and go ahead and use it.
>
>Somehow I wonder if all this sterilization/pasteurization makes sense. Most
of
>the critters we kill are nothing that would do harm to us, and would
provide
>competition, keeping down the number of the few bad critters that will.
>
>It's more dangerous to be in lonely places than in the middle of the crowd.
>Nobody is scared that they'll be robbed at gunpoint while they're sitting
in the
>third pew during Sunday morning worship - but the poorbox *might* get
looted at
>3 AM Monday morning!
Harbin Osteen
I never meant to imply that it was just related to the Navaho, but
there was good coverage of that particular outbreak, so I though
people would remember it. Hanta virus is in many southern states,
and there has been a breakout in Argentina also, and I did mention
that it was first recognized for what it is in Korea, during the Korean War.
This virus will kill anyone.
Mary Shafer wrote:
> Harbin Osteen <mus...@ca-connection.com> writes:
>
> > Rat Poison is not the problem, Hanta virus, carried by the Deer
> > Mouse is. Death is quick, a day or two. Remember the breakout in
> > the Navaho Nation a few years back?
>
> It was not just in the Navaho Nation--a number of non-Navaho people
> also contracted hantavirus in the outbreak. There have been
> subsequent cases in Northern California and elsewhere. It was never
> specifically a Navaho disease, any more than AIDS was Haitian.
>
> In fact, I recall a fellow in Oklahoma posting to sci.med about his
> girlfriend's terrible and unknown respiratory illness during the
> outbreak. Neither of them were Navaho.
>
> --
> Mary Shafer NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
> SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer Of course I don't speak for NASA
> sha...@reseng.dfrc.nasa.gov DoD #362 KotFR
> URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
> For personal messages, please use sha...@ursa-major.spdcc.com
--
SeeYaa:) Harbin Osteen
MUSCLE CAR MANIA L.T.D.
Over 2500 General Links!
http://www.ca-connection.com/~muscle/INDEX.htm
!sdohtem noitpyrcne devorppa-tnemnrevog troppus I
Do you fly? Want to live?:
http://www.communique.com/aircrash.html
Harbin Osteen
I never heard of a white footed mice, what area were you in, and were the
symptoms similar to the Hanta virus, which are pneumonia like symptoms?
dkh wrote:
--
Alan Boles
more remote areas more deadly viruses and mutations of viruses is highly
probable. Similar to the white man bringing small pox and tb to north and
south america these viruses may not effect the locals but might effect us
(non-locals no immunity). I knows this is all fiction but possible. It was
supposed to be a "real documentary". It said as the world becomes smaller
due to high speed travel these deadly viruses can and would spread before
they could be stopped. Something like the swine flu in the early part of the
1900s'. Wasn't ebola virus linked to one particular cave as its original
starting place something to do with bat droppings? But it is just another
disaster scenario like being hit by a comet or meteor.
Dave Bugg <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote in message
news:79j0g3$3of$1...@news-1.news.gte.net...
:The bleach solution ruptures the outer envelop of a virus exposing its DNA
:
:
deke.sp...@generous.net
>Are journalists trustworthy? Is Garrett a trustworthy journalist?
Well, this predates Garrett a little, but Mark Twain said it a lot better that I
could ever hope to:
I did not take the temporary editorship of an agriculture paper without
misgivings. Neither would a landsman take, command of a ship without misgivings.
But I was in circumstances that made the salary an object. The regular editor of
the paper was going off for a holiday, and I accepted the terms he offered, and
took his place.
The sensation of being at work again was luxurious, and I wrought all the week
with unflagging pleasure. We went to press, and I waited a day with some
solicitude to see whether my effort was going to attract any notice. As I left
the office, toward sundown, a group of men and boys at the foot of the stairs
dispersed with one impulse, and gave me passage-way, and I heard one or two of
them say: "That's him!" I was naturally pleased by this incident. The next
morning I found a similar group at the foot of the stairs, and scattering
couples and individuals standing here and there in the street, and over the way,
watching me with interest. The group separated and fell back as I approached,
and I heard a man say: "Look at his eye!" I pretended not to observe the notice
I was attracting, but secretly I was pleased with it, and was purposing to write
an account of it to my aunt. I went up the short flight of stairs, and heard
cheery voices and a ringing laugh as I drew near the door, which I opened, and
caught a glimpse of two young, rural-looking men, whose faces blanched and
lengthened when they saw me, and then they both plunged through the window, with
a great crash. I was surprised.
In about half an hour an old gentleman, with a flowing beard and a fine but
rather austere face, entered, and sat down at my invitation. He seemed to have
something on his mind. He took off his hat and set it on the floor, and got out
of it a red silk handkerchief and a copy of our paper. He put the paper on his
lap, and, while he polished his spectacles with his handkerchief, he said:
"Are you the new editor?"
I said I was.
"Have you ever edited an agricultural paper before?"
"No," I said; "this is my first attempt."
"Very likely. Have you had any experience in agriculture, practically?"
"No, I believe I have not."
"Some instinct told me so," said the old gentleman, putting on his spectacles
and looking over them at me with asperity, while he folded his paper into a
convenient shape. "I wish to read you what must have made me have that instinct.
It was this editorial. Listen, and see if it was you that wrote it:
"Turnips should never be pulled -- it injures them. It is much better to send a
boy up and let him shake the tree.
"Now, what do you think of that? -- for I really suppose you wrote it?"
"Think of it? Why, I think it is good. I think it is sense. I have no doubt
that, every year, millions and millions of bushels of turnips are spoiled in
this township alone by being pulled in a half-ripe condition, when, if they had
sent a boy up to shake the tree ---"
"Shake your grandmother! Turnips don't grow on trees!"
"Oh, they don't, don't they? Well, who said they did? The language was intended
to be figurative, wholly figurative. Anybody, that knows anything, will know
that I meant that the boy should shake the vine."
Then this old person got up and tore his paper all into small shreds, and
stamped on them, and broke several things with his cane, and said I did not know
as much as a cow; and then went out, and banged the door after him, and, in
short, acted in such a way that I fancied he was displeased about something But,
not knowing what the trouble was, I could not be any help to him.
Pretty soon after this a long, cadaverous creature, with lanky locks hanging
down to his shoulders and a week's stubble bristling from the hills and valleys
of his face, darted within the door, and halted, motionless, with finger on lip,
and head and body bent in listening attitude. No sound was heard. Still he
listened. No sound. Then he turned the key in the door, and came elaborately
tip-toeing toward me, till he was within long reaching distance of me, when he
stopped, and, after scanning my face with intense interest for a while, drew a
folded copy of our paper from his bosom, and said:
"There -- you wrote that. Read it to me, quick! Relieve, me -- I suffer."
I read as follows -- and as the sentences fell from my lips I could see the
relief come -- I could see the drawn muscles relax, and the anxiety go out of
the face, and rest and peace steal over the features like the merciful moonlight
over a desolate landscape:
The guano is a fine bird, but great care is necessary in rearing it. It should
not be imported earlier than June nor later than September. In the winter it
should be kept in a warm place, where it can hatch out its young. It is evident
that we are to have a backward season for grain. Therefore, it will be well for
the farmer to begin setting out his corn-stalks and planting his buckwheat cakes
in July instead of August.
Concerning the Pumpkin. -- This berry is a favorite with the natives of the
interior of New England, who prefer it to the gooseberry for the making of fruit
cake, and who likewise give it the preference over the raspberry for feeding
cows, as being more filling and fully as satisfying. The pumpkin is the only
esculent of the orange family that will thrive in the North, except the gourd
and one or two varieties of the squash. But the custom of planting it in the
front !yard with the shrubbery is fast going out of vogue, for it is now
generally conceded that the pumpkin, as a shade tree, is a failure.
Now, as the warm weather approaches, and the ganders begin to spawn --
The excited listener sprang toward me, to shake hands, and said:
"There, there -- that will do! I know I am all right now because you have read
it just as I did, word for word. But, stranger, when I first read it this
morning I said to myself I never, never believed it before, notwithstanding my
friends kept me under watch so strict, but now I believe I am crazy; and with
that I fetched a howl that you might have heard two miles, and started out to
kill somebody -- because, you know, I knew it would come to that sooner or
later, and so I might as well begin. I read one of them paragraphs over again,
so as to be certain, and then I burned my house down and started I have crippled
several people, and have got one fellow up a tree, where I can get him if I want
him. But I thought I would call in here as I passed along, and make the thing
perfectly certain; and now it is certain, and I tell you it is lucky for the
chap that is in the tree. I should have killed him, sure, as I went back.
Good-by, sir, good-by -- you have taken a great load off my mind. My reason has
stood the strain of one of your agricultural articles, and I know that nothing
can ever unseat it now . Good-by, sir."
I felt a little uncomfortable about the cripplings and arsons this person had
been entertaining himself with, for I could not help feeling remotely accessory
to them; but these thoughts were quickly banished, for the regular editor walked
in! [I thought to myself, Now if you had gone to Egypt, as I recommended you to,
I might have had a chance to get my hand in; but you wouldn't do it, and here
you are. I sort of expected you.]
The editor was looking sad, and perplexed, and dejected. He surveyed the wreck
which that old rioter and these two young farmers had made, and then said:
"This is a sad business -- a very sad business. There is the mucilage bottle
broken, and six panes of glass, and a spittoon and two candlesticks. But that is
not the worst. The reputation of the paper is injured, and permanently, I fear.
True, there never was such a call for the paper before, and it never sold such a
large edition or soared to such celebrity; but does one want to be famous for
lunacy, and prosper upon the infirmities of his mind? My friend, as I am an
honest man, the street out here is full of people, and others are roosting on
the fences, waiting to get a glimpse of you, because they think you are crazy.
And well they might, after reading your editorials. They are a disgrace to
journalism.
"Why, what put it into your head that you could edit a paper of this nature? You
do not seem to know the first rudiments of agriculture. You speak of a furrow
and a harrow as being the same thing; you talk of the moulting season for cows;
and you recommend the domestication of the pole-cat on account of its
playfulness and its excellence as a ratter.
"Your remark that clams will lie quiet if music be played to them, was
superfluous -- entirely superfluous. Nothing disturbs clams. Clams always lie
quiet. Clams care nothing whatever about music. Ah, heavens and earth, friend,
if you had made the acquiring of ignorance the study of your life, you could not
have graduated with higher honor than you could to-day. I never saw anything
like it. Your observation that the horse-chestnut, as an article of commerce, is
steadily gaining in favor, is simply calculated to destroy this journal. I want
you to throw up your situation and go. I want no more holiday -- I could not
enjoy it if I had it. Certainly not with you in my chair. I would always stand
in dread of what you might be going to recommend next.
"It makes me lose all patience every time I think of your discussing oyster-beds
under the head of 'Landscape Gardening.' I want you to go. Nothing on earth
could persuade me to take another holiday. Oh, why didn't you tell me you didn't
know anything about agriculture?"
"Tell you, you cornstalk, you cabbage, you son of a cauliflower! It's the first
time I ever heard such an unfeeling remark. I tell you I have been in the
editorial business going on fourteen years, and it is the first time I ever
heard of a man's having to know anything in order to edit a newspaper. You
turnip!
"Who write the dramatic critiques for the second-rate papers? Why, a parcel of
promoted shoemakers and apprentice apothecaries, who know just as much about
good acting as I do about good farming and no more. Who review the books? People
who never wrote one. Who do up the heavy leaders on finance? Parties who have
had the largest opportunities for knowing nothing about it. Who criticise the
Indian campaigns? Gentlemen who do not know a war-whoop from a wigwam, and who
never have had to run a foot-race with a tomahawk or pluck arrows out of the
several members of their families to build the evening camp-fire with. Who write
the temperance appeals and clamor about the flowing bowl? Folks who will never
draw another sober breath till they do it in the grave. Who edit the
agricultural papers, you -- yam? Men, as a general thing, who fail in the poetry
line, yellow covered novel line, sensation-drama line, city-editor line, and
finally fall back on agriculture as a temporary reprieve from
the poor-house.
"You try to tell me anything about the newspaper business! Sir, I have been
through it from Alpha to Omaha, and I tell you that the less a man knows the
bigger noise he makes and the higher the salary he commands. Heaven knows if I
had but been ignorant instead of cultivated, and impudent instead of diffident,
I could have made a name for myself in this cold, selfish world. I take my
leave, sir. Since I have been treated as you have treated me, I am perfectly
willing to go. But I have done my duty. I have fulfilled my contract, as far as
I was permitted to do it. I said I could make your paper of interest to all
classes, and I have. I said I could run your circulation up to twenty thousand
copies, and if I had had two more weeks I'd have done it. And I'd have given you
the best class of readers that ever an agricultural paper had -- not a farmer in
it, nor a solitary individual who could tell a watermelon from a peach-vine to
save his life. You are the loser by this rupture, not me, Pie-plant. Adios."
I then left.
------------------------
Let love find you! http://generous.net
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deke.sp...@generous.net
>There is an evaporation of the bleach that reduces it's potency.
Not evaporation. That's a physical process. Evaporation would *increase* the
potency of the bleach solution.
Bleach is a sodium hypochlorite solution; like hydrogen peroxide, it breaks down
chemically. Both sunlight and the minerals in your tap water will speed the
breakdown. Twenty-four hours seems awfully fast for it to break down, but as you
say, bleach is cheap.
Some people scrub baked potatoes and then refuse to eat the skins. Other people
don't even rinse off the potatoes, and think the skins the best part. With a new
baby, you boil the nipples for a half-hour. When your third kid is 2 years old,
you pull the nipple out of the dishwasher, drop it on the floor, blow on it,
brush it against your sleeve, and go ahead and use it.
Somehow I wonder if all this sterilization/pasteurization makes sense. Most of
the critters we kill are nothing that would do harm to us, and would provide
competition, keeping down the number of the few bad critters that will.
It's more dangerous to be in lonely places than in the middle of the crowd.
Nobody is scared that they'll be robbed at gunpoint while they're sitting in the
third pew during Sunday morning worship - but the poorbox *might* get looted at
3 AM Monday morning!
deacon "Guess whether I eat tater skins...." blues
JasCJones
>
>Somehow I wonder if all this sterilization/pasteurization makes sense. Most
>of
>the critters we kill are nothing that would do harm to us, and would provide
>competition, keeping down the number of the few bad critters that will.
I would think it depends on other circumstances. Most soil bacteria
are non-pathogenic. After weeding the garden, I don't get too upset if
washing my hands leaves a little good clean dirt. Contrast this with
the fact I used to rinse the surfaces[1] of all soda cans, soup cans, anything
which might contact food or my mouth.. No way to tell if they had
contaminates. Hanta virus is present in dust (dried rat urine). Does shigella
form spores? I don't know but other pathogens do.
Sterilizing the counter after I de-bone chicken is wise. The bacteria
on the skin of that animal will grow and contaminate other food put
down. I don't sterilize most surfaces in the house because I don't eat
off them, they don't normally get contaminated with anything virulent,
and sometimes they fight back. [2]
Jim "Of course I steam clean the engine of my sports car every week." Jones
[1] Now bleach.....
[2] Dumb cat joke.
yada yada yada at aol.com.aol.com.yada.yada.yada.com
"He are the egg man. I are the cow-rus."
-- Don "koo-koo-koo-joob" Whittington
Thomas Prufer
wrote:
>Who said it was specific to the Navajo? Harbin merely mentioned the
>outbreak on the Reservation -- which was the first major Hantavirus outbreak
>to gain CDC attention.
I have heard Hantavirus (and and occasional outbreak of the plague)
connected to a Navajo practice of collecting pinon (pin~on) nuts: The
mice collect the pinon nuts, leaving them in a pile underground, which
you find and raid. It makes sense for the Navajo to collect the
"concentrated" nuts, as it were, from the rodents. This does bring the
collector into close contact with the rodents and their urine.
I'm sure the practice isn't limited to the Navajo, but it pretty much
excludes the city boys that get their pinon nuts from the supermarket.
Tom Prufer
Peter Hines
deke.sp...@generous.net wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:18:16 -0800, "Dave Bugg" <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote:
>
> Some people scrub baked potatoes and then refuse to eat the skins. Other people
> don't even rinse off the potatoes, and think the skins the best part. With a new
> baby, you boil the nipples for a half-hour.
I don't know about the USA, but in Britain this could be opening yourself up to a
charge of child abuse ...
------------
P.M.Hines max...@bangor.ac.uk
Moira de Swardt
specialist qualification in community health care. She always allowed us to
eat anything without washing it, or our hands or getting neurotic about
cleanliness. Obviously she did have her limits, we had to bath every day,
whether we liked it or not. But then, as today no-one in our family went or
goes down with 'tummy-bugs' - we obviously developed immunity quite early
on. Incidentally, I read somewhere that people who are obsessed with wiping
up spills in the kitchen and cleaning surface counters have higher germ
counts than people who let the kitchen get quite messy before cleaning up
properly with a diluted bleach cleaner!
Harry E. Barnett
Peter Hines wrote in message <36BDBDE8...@bangor.ac.uk>...
CHILD abuse? Don't you have any laws against MOTHER abuse?
-------
Harry E. Barnett
har...@hbbseNOSPAM.com
"Why is history important? Without history, many people have no idea how
many of today's half-baked ideas have been tried, again and again - and have
repeatedly led to disaster. Most of these ideas are not new. They are just
being recycled with re-treaded rhetoric." --Thomas Sowell
Dave Bugg
etc. where droppings and urine had accumulated. The rainy season had been
unusually wet that year, which helped to increase the food supply for the
mice and therefore exploded the population of the mice themselves. If I
remember correctly, at least 27 states to date have reported at least one
case of hantavirus, some cases within more densely populated areas.
I'm not saying that Pinon collecting, as you described, hasn't produced an
infection. It just hasn't been responsible for the large outbreaks nor for
the vast majority of individual infections. Here in Eastern Washington we
have had 3 cases --- all related to people working in enclosed areas where
mice frequent.
*********************
Thomas Prufer wrote in message <36bd52d3...@news.tu-ilmenau.de>...
>On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:56:03 -0800, "Dave Bugg" <db...@crcwnet.com>
>wrote:
>
natasha
>
<snip>
> Do I clean the lids of cans and jars before opening? Yup. I spritz the
> tops with a 1:10 bleach solution, rinse and *then* open. It takes just a few
> extra seconds to do this since my spray bottle is right on the counter next
> to the sink. To prepare the solution fresh each day, it takes me all of
> about 45 seconds to pour the bleach to a line marked on the plastic spray
> bottle I picked up at K-Mart, and then to fill it the rest of the way with
> tap water. The solution has to be replaced each day.
>
from a can that was cleaned with bleach (even diluted 1:10 and washed).
He says bleach is bad for you, it's carcinogenic.
Natasha (Not a chemist. No, I used this one already... not a vegeterian)
Michaelov
Happy Dog
> I laughed when I read this one. My mother was a registered nurse with a
> specialist qualification in community health care. She always allowed us to
> eat anything without washing it, or our hands or getting neurotic about
> cleanliness. Obviously she did have her limits, we had to bath every day,
> whether we liked it or not. But then, as today no-one in our family went or
> goes down with 'tummy-bugs' - we obviously developed immunity quite early
> on.
More likely that you and your close relatives simply possess a strong
constitution. You can get some pretty nasty things from unwashed fruit, for
instance, that you're unlikely to be immune to. A good indicator of innate
immunity to GI bugs is your experience with traveler's diarreah. More
specifically, how severe it is and how quickly you get over it. This happens
when your GI system encounters the naturally occurring GI flora of distant
people's GI systems. :)
> Incidentally, I read somewhere that people who are obsessed with wiping
> up spills in the kitchen and cleaning surface counters have higher germ
> counts than people who let the kitchen get quite messy before cleaning up
> properly with a diluted bleach cleaner!
Not exactly. Constant use of disinfectants can allow bacteria with a natural
resistance to them to survive and multiply.
hd
dkh
<36BCDB89...@ca-connection.com>...
> Hi dkh:
> I never heard of a white footed mice, what area were you in, and were the
> symptoms similar to the Hanta virus, which are pneumonia like symptoms?
>
Prince of Wales island, SE Alaska. White foot is, I think, another name for
deer mice. Influenza like symptoms with some diarrhea, touch of pneumonia.
Could not have been flu because I had been in isolation for months before
that.
Lacking positive information otherwise, I suspect that I had a less
virulent strain of Hanta. I ran across some speculation that Hanta is world
wide. Only the virulent strains would draw attention so it does not seem
unreasonable.
Barbara N
>
>Harbin Osteen <mus...@ca-connection.com> wrote in article
><36BCDB89...@ca-connection.com>...
>> Hi dkh:
>> I never heard of a white footed mice, what area were you in, and were the
>> symptoms similar to the Hanta virus, which are pneumonia like symptoms?
>>
>
>
>Prince of Wales island, SE Alaska. White foot is, I think, another name for
>deer mice. Influenza like symptoms with some diarrhea, touch of pneumonia.
>Could not have been flu because I had been in isolation for months before
>that.
The white-footed or deer mouse is host to one stage of the tick that
carries Lyme disease. (Lyme Disease Foundation brochure.)
Barbara N.
Brian Yeoh
> On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:18:16 -0800, "Dave Bugg" <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote:
> >There is an evaporation of the bleach that reduces it's potency.
<snip>
> Some people scrub baked potatoes and then refuse to eat the skins. Other people
> don't even rinse off the potatoes, and think the skins the best part. With a new
> baby, you boil the nipples for a half-hour. When your third kid is 2 years old,
> you pull the nipple out of the dishwasher, drop it on the floor, blow on it,
> brush it against your sleeve, and go ahead and use it.
Must.... resist.... temptation.... must.... not.... AAAARGH!!!
Wouldn't boiling nipples for half an hour *HURT*? Not to mention stuffing
people into the dishwasher... I wonder how they feel about being hit by
sprinklers...
As for blowing on nipples...
Brian "MUST! Resist! Not! College! Student! Any! More!" Yeoh
"They lied to you. The Devil is not the Prince of Matter; the Devil is
the arrogance of the spirit, faith without smile, truth that is never
seized by doubt. The Devil is grim because he knows where he is going,
and, in moving, he always returns whence he came."
-- Umberto Eco, "The Name of the Rose"
Harry A. Demidavicius
wrote:
>
>
>deke.sp...@generous.net wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:18:16 -0800, "Dave Bugg" <db...@crcwnet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Some people scrub baked potatoes and then refuse to eat the skins. Other people
>> don't even rinse off the potatoes, and think the skins the best part. With a new
>> baby, you boil the nipples for a half-hour.
>
>I don't know about the USA, but in Britain this could be opening yourself up to a
>charge of child abuse ...
>
>------------
>P.M.Hines max...@bangor.ac.uk
>
A HALF-HOUR? That must be very painfull!
Harry Demidavicius
Kevin Eberle
Alan Boles <bo...@nospam.escape.ca.nospam> wrote:
>I watched a tv special on viruses that said as man moves his enviorment into
>more remote areas more deadly viruses and mutations of viruses is highly
>probable.
Case in point: African Sleeping Sickness. Discover magazine did a
layout on how man had kept on expanding into places in Africa where
they usually didn't for fear of diseases. The Tsetse fly spreads the
so called "Sleeping sickness" through a bite.
It is a horrible way to go, if you read the article.
In Reader's Digest there was a good article on the Hanta virus.
When certain weather conditions prevail (I think it is dry conditions),
the mice population will boom. Actually, I don't remember
the article too well. But you could always look through the old issues
of RD.
Mary Shafer
> I never meant to imply that it was just related to the Navaho, but
> there was good coverage of that particular outbreak, so I though
> people would remember it. Hanta virus is in many southern states,
> and there has been a breakout in Argentina also, and I did mention
> that it was first recognized for what it is in Korea, during the
> Korean War. This virus will kill anyone.
Nor did I mean to imply you did so and I apologize if you felt that I
was accusing you of this. However, I did want to be sure that readers
understood that neither distance from the reservations nor
non-relatedness to the Navaho Nation would render them immune to a
deadly disease carried in mouse excreta.
The situation is precisely as you write; this virus will kill anyone.
It will also do so anywhere. It will continue to do so as long as
people go where mice carrying the disease have lived.
Here I was, thinking that sylvanic plague was the worst of it, and up
pops hantavirus. There's a big difference between something curable
with a little tetracycline and a deadly virus. Makes the rattlesnakes
look positively benign, even when they aren't eating rodents.
JoAnne Schmitz
>Moira de Swardt wrote:
>
>> I laughed when I read this one. My mother was a registered nurse with a
>> specialist qualification in community health care. She always allowed us to
>> eat anything without washing it, or our hands or getting neurotic about
>> cleanliness. Obviously she did have her limits, we had to bath every day,
>> whether we liked it or not. But then, as today no-one in our family went or
>> goes down with 'tummy-bugs' - we obviously developed immunity quite early
>> on.
>
>More likely that you and your close relatives simply possess a strong
>constitution. You can get some pretty nasty things from unwashed fruit, for
>instance, that you're unlikely to be immune to. A good indicator of innate
>immunity to GI bugs is your experience with traveler's diarreah. More
>specifically, how severe it is and how quickly you get over it. This happens
>when your GI system encounters the naturally occurring GI flora of distant
>people's GI systems. :)
No need to illustrate the colon and the GI flora.
George Carlin's latest offering was on HBO Saturday night. He says that he and
his friends used to swim in water polluted by raw sewage, and as a result no one
in his neighborhood got polio, because their immune systems were big and strong.
He went on a rant about giving your immune system practice on germs so it's
ready for the big invasion.
I wonder about that idea, and more specifically I heartily doubt that story,
though it seems possible that most highly susceptible kids would not have lived
long enough to be one of his remembered neighborhood pals anyway.
He can be pretty funny, but like all comedians, I'm always afraid people will
take his joke premises as gospel and make stupid decisions based on them.
JoAnne "bathed in microorganisms" Schmitz
Brian Sefton
Dane Hutchins wrote: Apparently,
> she didn't clean the top before drinking from the can. The top was
> encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
Actually, it was the urine of seven different rats.
lann...@my-dejanews.com
"Dane Hutchins" <dlhut...@home.com> wrote:
---------------------------
> Subject: WARNING PASS THE WORD AND BE VERY CAREFUL!
>
> encrusted with dried rat's urine which is toxic and obviously lethal!!!
>
My daughter raises pet rats, and last week we had in the house three adults
and sixteen youngsters ("rittens", she tells me). They are the quietest,
smartest, cleanest, least malodorous small mammal we have ever owned (unlike
our hamsters, gerbils, rabbits). They don't bite, they don't harbor diseases
just because they are Rattus, and they don't post stupidity on USENET.
lanny budd
.sig shot off in the war
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Thomas Prufer
>On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:08:28 -0800, Harbin Osteen
><mus...@ca-connection.com> wrote:
>I do recall reading that natives in certain areas will dig a hole in
>the ground, plant spears in it (pointing upwards), urinate on the tips
>of the spears which after it is dried becomes a deadly poison.
This would mean the toilet seat in most gents' would be toxic?
Tom "or does it just smell that way" Prufer
Rufus
>people into the dishwasher
No. For details of cooking babies I refer you to Mrs Beeton's Recipe, which
as everyone knows begins "First kill your baby". After that very little
hurts them...
Rufus "Roast suckling, Yum" Evison
Rufus
friend in Newcastle who kept rats. They used to chew up her clothes too. My
friend in London who does likewise admits to the same problem. Her site may
be found at http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/3225/homepage/home.html
Rufus "You Clean Rat, You killed my brother!" Evison
Harbin Osteen
In the link below about the unusual outbreak of the Hantavirus in
Argentina is scary, with the posibility of being transfered human to human.
I hope we are not seeing a mutation of this killer. Flu seasion is bad enough,
we don't need a Hanta seasion.
Walter Eric Johnson wrote:
> Harbin Osteen (mus...@ca-connection.com) wrote:
> : Hi Mary:
> : I never meant to imply that it was just related to the Navaho, but
> : there was good coverage of that particular outbreak, so I though
> : people would remember it. Hanta virus is in many southern states,
> : and there has been a breakout in Argentina also, and I did mention
> : that it was first recognized for what it is in Korea, during the Korean War.
>
> I've long been under the impression that the version recognized in
> Korea was the variant which affected the kidneys and that the
> Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome was not recognized until the cases
> in the four corners area. Since then, it has been detected in
> quite a few states.
>
> The renal syndrome is apparently far more common. In one study
> in Baltimore of 8080 people, about 6.5% with end-stage renal
> disease due to hypertension were seropositive for a hantavirus.
> See Glass GE, Watson AJ, LeDuc JW, Kelen GD, Quinn TC, Childs JE,
> Infection with a ratborne hantavius in US residents is consistently
> associated with hypertensive renal disease, Journal of Infectious
> Diseases. 167(3):614-20, 1993 Mar.
>
> Also, there have been several outbreaks in Argentina. One outbreak in
> particular involved direct transmission from human to human. If I
> remember correctly, there was an article in the CDC's Emerging
> Infectious Diseases which is available over the web at
> <http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/index.htm>.
>
> Look at <http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol3no2/wells.htm>
> for the article. Interestingly, it notes the following:
> Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome is a rodent-borne zoonosis
> first recognized in the United States in 1993.
>
> Eric Johnson
Walter Eric Johnson
Walter Eric Johnson
: The flesh-eating microbe that the US GI's brought back after the Korean
: conflict. It was named for the Han River.
Flesh-eating? I tried to look at the URL below, but the server couldn't
be located. Does it refer too it as flesh-eating? Or did you make that
up?
Eric Johnson
Walter Eric Johnson
: Howdy:
: In the link below about the unusual outbreak of the Hantavirus in
: Argentina is scary, with the posibility of being transfered human to human.
: I hope we are not seeing a mutation of this killer. Flu seasion is bad enough,
: we don't need a Hanta seasion.
flu epidemics with fatalities in the millions in 1918, 1957, and 1968.
Right now, there is a fairly strong flu epidemic in Russia. In Minsk,
all public events have been banned and quarantine restrictions have
been imposed with nearly eight times the usual number of people ill.
A state of emergency has been imposed in Sevastopol. In St.
Petersberg, there were over 10,000 people diagnosed with the flu on
just one day.
In Japan, at least 96 people have reportedly died from the flu this year.
A few weeks ago, flu was reported as a serious problem that was
still short of epidemic proportions in England.
Eric Johnson
jerry and judy
Eric Johnson) wrote:
That's how witnesses have described it. In scientific terms, I guess
you'd have to define or redefine 'flesh' and 'eating'. We know how the
virus attacks the organs etc.
Being eaten by a flesh-eating predator is how most of our ancestors met
their fate over the last 90 million years of the primate line, so I assume
that the phrase evokes a keen racial memory. Have you ever thought about
it? the history or the experience?
Would it be preferable to succumb to a flesh-eating virus or a
flesh-eating tiger? I would opt for the virus.
Jerry
Walter Eric Johnson
: Eric Johnson) wrote:
:
: >jerry and judy (jerb...@zianet.com) wrote:
: >: The flesh-eating microbe that the US GI's brought back after the Korean
: >: conflict. It was named for the Han River.
: >
: >Flesh-eating? I tried to look at the URL below, but the server couldn't
: >be located. Does it refer too it as flesh-eating? Or did you make that
: >up?
: >
: >Eric Johnson
:
:
:
: That's how witnesses have described it. In scientific terms, I guess
: you'd have to define or redefine 'flesh' and 'eating'. We know how the
: virus attacks the organs etc.
Are you positive you're not confusing hantavirus with group A
streptococcus bacteria? Hantavirus is not even a bacteria.
Eric Johnson
Harry A. Demidavicius
I haven't been following this thread, because the subject did not
interest me until I spotted the topic while checking out something
else [a "virus" alert].
People, this is just another "great story", an Urban Legend.
Don't just take *my* [late comer's word] on this.
Visit the following site
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/blhoax.htm?pid=2733&cob=home
Harry Demidavicius
Robert Jackson
good.
joy wrote in message <36BB7F0A...@zip.com.au>...
>
>Please remove alt.diet.support from your headers.
>
>cheers
>Joy
>
>Mike Hutchinson wrote:
>>
>> While generally agreeing with Lynn, especially regarding the plastic
>> wrapping, can't people can catch Weil's Disease from swimming in water
>> contaminated by rats' urine?
>> --
>> Mike Hutchinson
>> www.hutch.demon.co.uk for details of my book 'Bizarre Beliefs'
>> Please remove "no.rubbish" from reply to address
Clocks
>
> Don't know about dried rat piss but I have heard dried RATS ASS was pretty
> good.
The sole purpose of existence
is to allow consciousness
the opportunity
to taste
every conceivable substance
the universe
can concoct
given enough time
this will be done
do not die
--Clocks
Harbin Osteen
I have heard some concern on the TV in the last year or so, that they believe
that there may be a flu pandemic coming down the road soon. I have been
considering if I should start taking flu shoots every year, but I'm not sure how
safe flu shoots are either.
Walter Eric Johnson wrote:
--
Harbin Osteen
Sure, we well check out your link, in the meantime, you might check out this link.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hanta/hps/index.htm
--
jerry and judy
>jerry and judy (jerb...@zianet.com) wrote:
>: The flesh-eating microbe that the US GI's brought back after the Korean
>: conflict. It was named for the Han River.
>
>Flesh-eating? I tried to look at the URL below, but the server couldn't
>be located. Does it refer too it as flesh-eating? Or did you make that
>up?
>
>Eric Johnson
That's how witnesses have described it. In scientific terms, I guess
you'd have to define or redefine 'flesh' and 'eating'. We know how the
virus attacks the organs etc.
Being eaten by a flesh-eating predator is how most of our ancestors met
Jon
tell me how i can stop getting htese e-mails?!?
Walter Eric Johnson wrote:
>
> Harbin Osteen (mus...@ca-connection.com) wrote:
T. M. Stoudt
Could this flesh-eating microbe be in any way related to the flesh-eating
bacteria known as "athlete's foot" or ringworm?
(Just thought I'd ask.)
--
[From the sig file collection of pilfered quips & quotes:]
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -- Mark Twain
_____________________
Tom
<gzfg...@ragre.arg>
The Walrus
Hi Clocks,
> The sole purpose of existence
> is to allow consciousness
> the opportunity
> to taste
> every conceivable substance
> the universe
> can concoct
I really liked this until I thought about Brussels sprouts.
No ... stop laughing ... I'm being serious.
I am conscious and have tasted Brussels sprouts. My girlfriend appears to be
conscious, and claims to have tasted Brussels sprouts. I liked them ok. She
claims not to have.
Now, does this mean that every single example of consciousness will have to try
every conceivable substance? Because *her* consciousness would not have been
satisfied with the result obtained by *my* consciousness ...
But it gets worse. My consciousness informs me that I have "tasted" her
consciousness. Otherwise I couldn't claim to know about the Brussels sprouts.
But after tasting her consciousness to know about the Brussels sprouts, my
consciousness must taste different. In fact, I would go so far as to claim it
tasted different after tasting the Brussels sprouts.
So, we have every piece of consciousness having to taste every other piece of
consciousness and then having to taste the results of having tasted, ad
infinitum.
> given enough time
> this will be done
Ah, but! The last piece of consciousness to do any tasting, changes after it
tasted. And then all the other pieces of consciousness have to taste it again
... and so it goes on ...
This becomes easier if consciousness is all one piece, but then it still has to
taste itself, which still means the process will never stop.
Or are you saying that consciousness is outside the system somehow? In this
case, how does it gain access to my tastebuds?
> do not die
I shall try not. I'm working on it ... the Brussels sprouts have so far not been
an unparalleled success.
d.
Brian Sefton
Ringworm and atheletes foot are fungus.
Mary Shafer
there's nothing to hantavirus or conflated with WW II experiments on a
British island and changed into a "Government spreads deadly disease
in Channel Islands park" paranoid fantasy.
There are some small islands off the SoCal coast that have been made
into (state or national) parks, with camping grounds, rangers,
liability suits, and the other impedimentia of modern life. One of
the islands is inhabited by wild mice (deer mice, probably) and recent
testing indicates that over half the mice are carrying hantavirus.
Last year there were huge and alarming signs everywhere, but this year
they've toned the signs down, on the grounds that no one, no visitors,
no rangers, no one, has gotten any sort of hantavirus. All the same,
there's still a caution in the leaflet that is sent to people
reserving a campground slot.
When the reporter spoke with the campers, it became obvious that no
one had read the leaflet or the signs, but everyone quoted in the
story immediately assumed their lives were in danger and that the
government should do more to protect people.
The next day, in the same section, there was a story about a volunteer
ski patrol on Mt. Pinos, an 8,000-ft mountain in the range that
divides Northern and Southern California. Their headquarters building
(I'm paraphrasing because I tossed the paper in the recycle bin)
"stinks of chlorine bleach, splashed around heavily to drive away
rodents". It might well do so, but the intent is probably to destroy
the virus in the excreta of the rodents.
Mike Holmans
Walter Eric Johnson <wej...@fox.tamu.edu> felt like saying:
>
>A few weeks ago, flu was reported as a serious problem that was
>still short of epidemic proportions in England.
I wonder if that's still true.
Just before Christmas it was still being said that it wasn't a flu
epidemic because the incidence hadn't reached the required figure of x
cases per 100,000 population, although I don't know what x is.
Just after Christmas, Lizz and I both suffered with it for a few days
and we were by no means the last people in the country to get it - when
we phoned the store a couple of weeks later our kitchen salesperson was
off with it and would be back on Monday. Three-quarters of the hundred
or so orkers of bovines on my floor of the office have succumbed at some
point in the last two months and most of my acquaintances report similar
figures.
Since there isn't really anything much you can do about influenza other
than take painkillers and go to bed, as we did, I don't see how They can
tell that it wasn't an epidemic, if the only figures they have got are
the number of cases reported to general practitioners.
The number of deaths attributable to flu this winter remains
depressingly low, though.
Mike "Enza is a witch" Holmans
--
War, famine, disease and death are but toothaches
when compared with emoticons. - Steve Devaux,in rec.sport.cricket
http://www.urbanlegends.com expands on the theme, as well as telling
you lots of other really interesting stuff
Bart Bailey
first.
Tricia Sandahl
Perhaps, but the most toxic spot in the gents' would most certainly be
the floor in front of the toilet ;)
Tricia
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the world were a logical place, men would ride sidesaddle.
---Rita Mae Brown---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tricia Sandahl | I don't want to appeal to everyone.
tsan...@iastate.edu | Afterall, not everyone appeals to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Whittington
<pos...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The number of deaths attributable to flu this winter remains
> depressingly low, though.
There is nothing worse than surviving an illness others should be dying from.
Don "Where's the glory?" Whittington
--
"No more than my teaching you to give a blowjob would make me
Bill Clinton."--JoAnne Schmitz
Walter Eric Johnson
: Newsgroups trimmed to a.f.u. only
:
: Walter Eric Johnson <wej...@fox.tamu.edu> felt like saying:
: >
: >A few weeks ago, flu was reported as a serious problem that was
: >still short of epidemic proportions in England.
:
: I wonder if that's still true.
:
: Just before Christmas it was still being said that it wasn't a flu
: epidemic because the incidence hadn't reached the required figure of x
: cases per 100,000 population, although I don't know what x is.
From the January 7, 199 issue of The Independent (London),
Laurance, Jeremy, How a minor dose of flu nearly felled the NHS,
The Independent (London), Jan 7, 1999, p 4
According to the Royal College of General
Practitioner's flu monitoring unit in Birmingham there is no
epidemic. The numbers affected - fewer than than two in 1,000
people on yesterday's figures - are low by comparison with
previous winters and will need to double before we have what is
officially termed an epidemic.
...
The answer to the first question is the easiest. Figures recorded by
the Royal College of General Practitioners' (RCGP) monitoring
unit - the gold standard for flu watchers - are based on reports from
350 GPs in 90 practices in the UK covering 700,000 patients.
Every patient who goes to see one of these GPs suffering from flu
or a flu-like illness is reported to the monitoring unit and becomes
a national statistic.
...
It poses the question of what would happen if there were a genuine
epidemic, a prospect that seemed to worry Frank Dobson, the
Health Secretary, on Tuesday when he acknowledged that it would
be "very difficult to cope". Compared with this year's two in 1,000
people suffering from flu, the 1993 outbreak peaked at 30 per cent
above this level and the 1989 epidemic at more than
two-and-a-half times above it. In 1969, the year of the last global
pandemic, the infection rate hit 10 per 1,000, implying that more
than 500,000 people were falling victim each week.
Eric Johnson
lonely...@newwave.net
Mary Shafer <sha...@reseng2.dfrc.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Got another hantavirus story, which will either be used to prove
> there's nothing to hantavirus or conflated with WW II experiments on a
> British island and changed into a "Government spreads deadly disease
> in Channel Islands park" paranoid fantasy.
>
> There are some small islands off the SoCal coast that have been made
> into (state or national) parks, with camping grounds, rangers,
> liability suits, and the other impedimentia of modern life. One of
> the islands is inhabited by wild mice (deer mice, probably) and recent
> testing indicates that over half the mice are carrying hantavirus.
>
> Last year there were huge and alarming signs everywhere, but this year
> they've toned the signs down, on the grounds that no one, no visitors,
> no rangers, no one, has gotten any sort of hantavirus. All the same,
> there's still a caution in the leaflet that is sent to people
> reserving a campground slot.
... In another forum, it was noted that a tribe of native americans was suing
the US govt for back payment owed on a plot of land being held by the Govt.
The courts ordered the offices involved to hand over the applicable
documents. The catch? the office refused to do so. The excuse? deer mice
droppings and other traces had been found on the boxes of forms, and with the
hantavirus...noone wanted to touch the box. Also: it seems that, to the tribe
in question, Deer mice are an 'unclean animal.' Deer mice were supposed to be
from the realm of the dead, walking among both the dead and the living... and
that anything even touched by deermice...clothes, food, etc... was to be
burned. The mice supposedly would take the young and strong--- but not the
very old or very young...in death. interestingly enough, the Hantavirus does
just that.... the hale and hearty have strong immune systems, and hence
strong reactions to the virus. The reaction itself-- the lungs filling up
with fluid, if I recall correctly--- is what kills the victim. Apparently the
native americans had had contact with the hantavirus, and developed this
'deer mouse' taboo over it. RH Jr
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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The Walrus
> If you guyz are going to get into existential ontology, then pass me that bong
> first.
Well, if it's no more efficacious than Brussels sprouts, at least that sounds like
more
fun. You'll have to wrench it from my grasp first ...
d.
Default
I have read about Hantavirus with interest but I missed the beginning of this
thread.Can somebody clear up a few points for me. I am from the UK and I don't
recognise the name Hantavirus.
We have a rat urine-bourne infection here called Weil's Disease (Leptospirosis)
which can be fatal or cause severe liver and kidney damage. It is transmitted via
cuts or via the mouth from areas with rat urine (mostly slow moving or still water)
although I suppose food surfaces and drinks cans would also do the job.
As for the flesh-eating bug, we have Necrotising Faciitis over here which causes a
rapid necrosis of flesh. the only real cure is amputation of the affected area.
What a lovely subject.
Andy
Ian A. York
Default <andrew....@gecm.nospamnospamnospam.com> wrote:
>
>recognise the name Hantavirus.
Hantaviruses are a group of viruses for which the prototype is Hantaan
virus, first identified in Korea. Although the group has been known since
the 1950s, they drew widespread interest when a number of people in the
USA becmae infected and died a few years ago, but hantavirus disease is
not by any means limited to the US. It is, however, rare or nonexistent
in the UK. A useful site on the subject is
<http://www.Tulane.EDU:80/~dmsander/WWW/335/Hantaviruses.html>.
>We have a rat urine-bourne infection here called Weil's Disease (Leptospirosis)
Leptospirosis is caused by bacteria, Leptospira spp. As you say, one way
it's spread is via rat urine, though there are many other ways you can get
it (including from other species, like dogs) and it can and does infect
humans. It's found pretty much world-wide. You can learn more about it
at <http://www.sunbeach.net/comp/lepto/lepto2.htm>.
>As for the flesh-eating bug, we have Necrotising Faciitis over here
That's caused by a particular strain of a different bacterium,
Streptococcus. (Strep is very common, but the particular strain that
causes this is rare.) You can find some information about this at
<http://www.seanet.com/~tzhre/necro.htm>.
>What a lovely subject.
It is, isn't it. However, it was cross-posted to many newsgroups by a
mouth-breathing cretin in an attempt to swamp alt.folklore.urban with
off-topic posts. Thanks for keeping this intelligent; in the mean time,
note that I'm directed followups to AFU only.
Ian
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England
John McFarlane
>
> If you guyz are going to get into existential ontology, then pass me that bong
> first.
>
Probably a good way to get the munchies for those damn brussel sprouts.
Crash Johnson
>Got another hantavirus story,
>...
<>
>There are some small islands off the SoCal coast that have been made
>into (state or national) parks
<>
<>
>ski patrol on Mt. Pinos
<>
>"stinks of chlorine bleach, splashed around heavily to drive away
>rodents". It might well do so, but the intent is probably to destroy
>the virus in the excreta of the rodents.
As a Ski Patroller (alpine) I have been trained to use a dilute solution of
chlorine bleach to clean anything that comes into contact with human bodily
fluids. This is a standard precaution against a number of viral and
bacterial problems, especially HIV and hepatitis. If the Nordic Patrol
building at Pinos smells like bleach, it may have more to do with the normal
operations than any concern over hantavirus. I have forwarded the post to
them for comments. The site is:
http://members.aol.com/XCPATRL/index.html/MtPinosMap.html
Crash 'I will ski for food' Johnson
Mary Shafer
> As a Ski Patroller (alpine) I have been trained to use a dilute
> solution of chlorine bleach to clean anything that comes into
> contact with human bodily fluids. This is a standard precaution
> against a number of viral and bacterial problems, especially HIV and
> hepatitis. If the Nordic Patrol building at Pinos smells like
> bleach, it may have more to do with the normal operations than any
> concern over hantavirus. I have forwarded the post to them for
> comments. The site is:
> http://members.aol.com/XCPATRL/index.html/MtPinosMap.html
It's not the Nordic Patrol's problem, it's the Los Angeles Times'
problem. Why didn't you forward the post to the Times for comments?
The article was written by a Times employee, not a member of the
Patrol, and any snippiness in my remarks is directed at the author,
not the Patrol. Why write that a rational, well-trained group uses
bleach as a rodent repellent, instead of using it to kill viruses and
bacteria?
I've never heard of bleach as a rodent repellent but now I expect to
hear from the Times that it really works--just ask the Mt. Pinos
Nordic Patrol. The Patrol deserves better.
This is just another case of the media getting a little confused. The
night before last, the TV news anchor mentioned that there was a storm
which, in addition to affecting Coos Bay, OR, was threatening the
Pacific Northwest. The last time I looked, Oregon is a large part of
the Pacific Northwest.
Thomas Prufer
<pos...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Since there isn't really anything much you can do about influenza other
>than take painkillers and go to bed, as we did, I don't see how They can
>tell that it wasn't an epidemic, if the only figures they have got are
>the number of cases reported to general practitioners.
And drink lots of fluids, of course.
I wonder how They differentiate between the flu and a nasty cold. If
you died, it was flu? Was it fever for the flu, none for a cold? What
about if you have some infection in, say, the sinuses - couldn't that
give a fever without it being the flu?
There was a bit on the telly here in Germany where They had said that
the English flu hadn't come over here yet. They had counted
fiftymumble cases of one kind, and (less than twenty) of another. So
there must be someone looking at the little viruses and even typing
them on an ongoing basis.
Tom "never drink anything but fluids" Prufer
M.J.Powell
>>Since there isn't really anything much you can do about influenza other
>>than take painkillers and go to bed, as we did, I don't see how They can
>>tell that it wasn't an epidemic, if the only figures they have got are
>>the number of cases reported to general practitioners.
>
>And drink lots of fluids, of course.
>
>I wonder how They differentiate between the flu and a nasty cold. If
>you died, it was flu? Was it fever for the flu, none for a cold? What
>about if you have some infection in, say, the sinuses - couldn't that
>give a fever without it being the flu?
Flu test. If there is a fifty Pound (dollar)(mark) note in a field, and
you can get to it, you haven't got flu.
--
Mike The life that I have
Is all that I have
And the life that I have
Is yours.
Mike Holmans
>>than take painkillers and go to bed, as we did, I don't see how They can
>>tell that it wasn't an epidemic, if the only figures they have got are
>>the number of cases reported to general practitioners.
>
>And drink lots of fluids, of course.
>
>I wonder how They differentiate between the flu and a nasty cold. If
>you died, it was flu? Was it fever for the flu, none for a cold? What
>about if you have some infection in, say, the sinuses - couldn't that
>give a fever without it being the flu?
>
flu. The sufferer can certainly tell the difference between it and a
nasty cold. You run a temperature of 104F, and your whole body aches
painfully. I was coughing and sneezing in equal measure, and was very
blocked up in the head, but that may have been a secondary infection.
The main effects last for 48-72 hours, but it takes about two weeks
before you stop feeling debilitated. It was nothing like any cold I've
ever had. It was seriously unpleasant, unlike the times when you just
feel under the weather and stay home from work and put "flu" on the sick
report form the next day.
For a normally healthy person all that a doctor can do once you've got
it is prescribe stronger painkillers than you can buy over the counter.
Medicine can't really accelerate the progress of the disease and get you
over it quicker. Nurofen Plus (ibuprofen + codeine) at maximum dose all
but eliminated the pain so there was no need for me to see him and
that's how it was for most other people I know.
I can understand how it could be life-threatening to the frail.
Mike "Christmas just flu by last year" Holmans
El Sig spent several days in bed with Signora. He *said* the "Ooooh!
Oooooh!" sounds were groans of pain
dig...@cybexrport.com
Bwahahahahaha!!!!
After reading this I got the same feeling I had after reading "A Brief
History of Time". This is an elegant little piece of work. And much
funnier than Hawking.