volkswagon symbol and swastika
James Liley
60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
Can anyone confirm/ deny?
James Liley
Ken Nicolson
Dunno about that, but if you spin a Volkswagen at 260 km/h it's
possible to see [insert favourite deity here].
Anyway, how do you spin something at 60 k/ph - shouldn't it be an RPM,
or are they referring to hub caps as you pass them?
>James Liley
Ken "But if you spin a Luftwaffe propeller, it looks like the BMW
symbol" Nicolson
Stephen Suffet
>
> A friend told me ( as all ULs go) that when the Volkawagon symbol is
> spun at 60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
>
> Can anyone confirm/ deny?
>
Greetings:
Cannot confirm nor deny, but one thing sounds phony: km/h is the
wrong unit for measuring rotational speed. The correct unit would be
revolutions/unit of time, such as rev/sec or rev/min. Km/h is a unit
of speed, and on a rotating object, the speed is zero at the precise
center and increases as one moves from the center towards the edge.
If your friend had said 60 rev/sec or something like that, it
would make more sense. But it might still be false.
What I can tell you truthfully is that the Volkswagon -- literally
the People's Car -- was developed at the behest of the Nazi regime. I
believe it first became commercially available in 1938 (or possibly
1939), and I know that many German families made downpayments towards
Volkswagons they never received once the German automotive industry
converted to full-time military production.
The Nazi-era Volkwagon was commemorated on a German postage stamp
issued at the International Automobile Show in Berlin from February 17
through March 5, 1939. The stamp is listed in the Michel Briefmarken-
Katalog (the standard catalog of German philately) as No. 688.
Unsold remainders of the Volkwagon stamp were later overprinted
"Nürburgring-Rennen" and placed on sale May 18, 1939, to honor the
Nuremberg Races, to be held May 21 and July 23 of that year. The over-
printed stamp is listed in Michel as No. 697.
I don't know about the VW symbol, but the link between the ori-
ginal Volkswagon and the Nazi regime is real and very well documented.
There is no need to look for imaginary swastikas!
Regards,
Steve
mince...@switchboardmail.com
Suf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> James Liley wrote:
> >
> > A friend told me ( as all ULs go) that when the Volkawagon symbol is
> > spun at 60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
> >
> The Nazi-era Volkwagon was commemorated on a German postage stamp
> issued at the International Automobile Show in Berlin from February 17
> through March 5, 1939. The stamp is listed in the Michel Briefmarken-
> Katalog (the standard catalog of German philately) as No. 688.
>
> Unsold remainders of the Volkwagon stamp were later overprinted
> "Nürburgring-Rennen" and placed on sale May 18, 1939, to honor the
> Nuremberg Races, to be held May 21 and July 23 of that year. The over-
> printed stamp is listed in Michel as No. 697.
Maybe he was talking about the propensity of VeeDubs (or FowVays, in Chermany)
to swap ends when pushed too hard. The tendency of the car to oversteer and
spin out may have caused drivers to see all sorts of symbols -- but most of
them probably had religious connotations.
The stamp: The Nürburgring, where that 1939 race was held, is located 'way up
in the Eifel Mountains, pretty near the Luxembourg border. Not to be confused
with Nürnberg, over there in Bavaria. The 'Ring was built back in the
Twenties. Fantastic racing circuit in its original form -- just over 21
kilometers per lap. It's still in use for Formula One events, although the
original course has been shortened considerably.
ObUL: The first Porsches were VWs. Ferdinand Porsche designed them both.
Larry Palletti
--
Opinionated, but lovable
Iota Nu Beta
"Good luck with that swastika."
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lech...@uswest.net
James Liley wrote:
> A friend told me ( as all ULs go) that when the volkawagon symbol is spun at
> 60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
>
> Can anyone confirm/ deny?
>
> James Liley
A friend of mine was run over by a Volkswagon going appoximately only 25 km/h.
He stated to the doctor that he didn't see anything.
Stephen Suffet
>
>
> The stamp: The Nürburgring, where that 1939 race was held, is located 'way up
> in the Eifel Mountains, pretty near the Luxembourg border. Not to be confused
> with Nürnberg, over there in Bavaria. The 'Ring was built back in the
> Twenties. Fantastic racing circuit in its original form -- just over 21
> kilometers per lap. It's still in use for Formula One events, although the
> original course has been shortened considerably.
>
Dear Larry,
Thanks for the correction on the Nürburgring Rennen. Sorry for
the confusion. As you point out, it looks and sounds so much like
Nürnberg, especially to my non-Teutonic senses. :-)
Regards,
Steve
Nathan F Miller
>A friend told me ( as all ULs go) that when the volkawagon symbol is spun at
>60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
>Can anyone confirm/ deny?
I don't think there's any reason that you'd see anything but a blur at
any speed--unless it was done in strobing light. And then there'd also
have to be a strobe rate specified, at least in terms of blinks per
revolution. Someone who looks for backwards masked messages in rock music
might like to take the time to investigate this.
Nathan "Blinkenlighten" Miller
Ray Depew
>
> James Liley wrote:
> >
> > A friend told me ( as all ULs go) that when the Volkawagon symbol is
> > spun at 60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
> Cannot confirm nor deny, but one thing sounds phony: km/h is the
> wrong unit for measuring rotational speed.
You're thinking way too conventionally. Think "hubcab". Then the
"km/h" units make perfect sense.
R
R
Ben Walsh
>> Cannot confirm nor deny, but one thing sounds phony: km/h is the
>> wrong unit for measuring rotational speed.
>
>You're thinking way too conventionally. Think "hubcab". Then the
>"km/h" units make perfect sense.
No. Rotational speed is not measured in km/h. You can think "hubcap" all you
like, but the outer rim of the hubcap is going at a faster linear speed than
points inward, while they're both going at the same rotational speed.
ben "some conventions are there for a reason" w.
Bruce Tindall
>>"km/h" units make perfect sense.
>
>No. Rotational speed is not measured in km/h. You can think "hubcap" all you
>like, but the outer rim of the hubcap is going at a faster linear speed than
>points inward, while they're both going at the same rotational speed.
I think we know that, and I think we know that the original poster's
wording of the question was not Oll Korrect fizzix. However, I don't think
Ray is defending the poster's fizzix; rather, he's trying to make some
sense of the original question, instead of dismissing it as meaningless.
Presumably the original poster meant, when he said "spun at 60 km/h",
"spun at whatever number of RPM's a standard-sized VW wheel spins at
when the car is moving forward (or backwards) at a speed of 60 km/h".
The VW logo in question is, presumably, at the center of the hubcap.
It's not wrong to pendantically correct him, but while we do so, it's
also possible to interpolate the missing conversion factors, rephrase
the question in units that make sense, and answer it.
--
Bruce Tindall :: tin...@panix.com
Ben Walsh
>Presumably the original poster meant, when he said "spun at 60 km/h",
>"spun at whatever number of RPM's a standard-sized VW wheel spins at
>when the car is moving forward (or backwards) at a speed of 60 km/h".
>The VW logo in question is, presumably, at the center of the hubcap.
>It's not wrong to pendantically correct him, but while we do so, it's
>also possible to interpolate the missing conversion factors, rephrase
>the question in units that make sense, and answer it.
Nope; I would imagine (there are VW experts around here, they're not me)
that VW wheels and hubcaps have come in a variety different shapes and sizes
over the years, and the VW logo is different sizes on them. What marks this
story out as nonsensical is that it was obviously developed by someone whose
concept of rotational vs linear speed wasn't all that clear.
ben "stand by my pet ant" w.
Paul Tomblin
>Nope; I would imagine (there are VW experts around here, they're not me)
>that VW wheels and hubcaps have come in a variety different shapes and sizes
>over the years, and the VW logo is different sizes on them. What marks this
AFAIK, the VW Beetle has had the same 13 inch tire and wheel from WW II up to
the present day. Doesn't matter what size the VW logo was, it would rotate
the same number of rpm at 60km/hr no matter what size it was, as long as the
tire was the same size.
But the whole concept doesn't make sense unless you were talking about the
image of one taken with a cine-camera or under florescent bulbs - something to
get a flicker that would "stop" the motion in some manner.
--
"Linux's homebase is currently commodity network and server infrastructure. By
folding extended functionality ... into today's commodity services, we raise
the bar & change the rules of the game."
- Microsoft leaks their strategy for monopolizing the Internet and the desktop.
Ray Depew
> >> wrong unit for measuring rotational speed.
> >
> >"km/h" units make perfect sense.
>
> No. Rotational speed is not measured in km/h. You can think "hubcap" all you
> like, but the outer rim of the hubcap is going at a faster linear speed than
> points inward, while they're both going at the same rotational speed.
I *know* that. You're hung up on the "rotational speed" thing.
Forget the "rotational speed" hangup and look at the question again.
If you can't rotate a VW emblem at 60 km/h, then what can you do
with a VW emblem at 60 km/h? Or, to put it another way, what part
of the VW beetle has a representation of the VW emblem, and rotates
when the car is going 60 km/h?
I suggest that the original poster meant something like: "If
you drive a VW beetle at 60 km/h and observe the rotating hubcaps ..."
Many newbies here have a problem with imprecision in their statements.
I'd rather have their imprecision than the rude arrogance of other
representatives of the Class of September 1998. Let's not chase
them away.
R
R
Ben Walsh
>If you can't rotate a VW emblem at 60 km/h, then what can you do
>with a VW emblem at 60 km/h?
Throw it at someone?
>I suggest that the original poster meant something like: "If
>you drive a VW beetle at 60 km/h and observe the rotating hubcaps ..."
>Many newbies here have a problem with imprecision in their statements.
I think it goes beyond imprecision: the whole idea has so many fatal flaws
that you can pick one, any one. Or, as a quaint merkin expression goes,
"whichever way you slice it, it's still baloney".
ben "still baloney" w.
Stephen Suffet
>
> Ben Walsh wrote:
> >
> > Ray Depew wrote in message <365054...@hp.com>...
> >
> > >> Cannot confirm nor deny, but one thing sounds phony: km/h is the
> > >> wrong unit for measuring rotational speed.
> > >
> > >You're thinking way too conventionally. Think "hubcab". Then the
> > >"km/h" units make perfect sense.
> >
> > No. Rotational speed is not measured in km/h. You can think "hubcap" all you
> > like, but the outer rim of the hubcap is going at a faster linear speed than
> > points inward, while they're both going at the same rotational speed.
>
> I *know* that. You're hung up on the "rotational speed" thing.
> Forget the "rotational speed" hangup and look at the question again.
>
> of the VW beetle has a representation of the VW emblem, and rotates
> when the car is going 60 km/h?
>
> you drive a VW beetle at 60 km/h and observe the rotating hubcaps ..."
> Many newbies here have a problem with imprecision in their statements.
> representatives of the Class of September 1998. Let's not chase
> them away.
>
Greetings:
Yipes this has gone far afield! I did not intend in my original
response to dwell this long on the question of rotational speed. What
I hoped to do was point out the the connection between the Volkwagon
and the Nazi regime is well documented -- the 1939 postage stamp is
but one example -- and there is no need to spin VW emblems in search
of hidden swastikas. Figuratively speaking, the swastika has been
right up front on the Volkswagon since the car's inception!
---Steve
mince...@switchboardmail.com
Suf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> Yipes this has gone far afield! I did not intend in my original
> response to dwell this long on the question of rotational speed. What
> I hoped to do was point out the the connection between the Volkwagon
> and the Nazi regime is well documented -- the 1939 postage stamp is
> but one example -- and there is no need to spin VW emblems in search
> of hidden swastikas. Figuratively speaking, the swastika has been
> right up front on the Volkswagon since the car's inception!
>
> ---Steve
>
I wouldn't be surprised to find swastikas painted all over the original
Volkswagens. The German government actively supported automotive innovation
throughout the era and proudly put its mark on the cars themselves. Note that
the Grand Prix cars of Mercedes Benz and Auto Union carried big black
swastikas on their bodywork in the late Thirties. Of course, they've lost
them since -- probably smart marketing.
But there's a definite need to spin the Volkswagen emblems, because that was
your original claim -- that swastikas appear in some kind of optical trick.
It shouldn't be too hard to prove/disprove. Just go find one, Steve, and spin
the hell out of it. Or watch a VeeDub roll by and tell us what you really see.
Not what you "figuratively" see; give us a literal read, unencumbered by any
predilection you obviously now harbor.
Hey, this is *your* claim. *You* spin the damned hubcap, then convince all
these inquiring minds. We really wanna know. And while I personally think
you're standing knee-deep in a pile of unadulterated horseshit, I'm willing
to be proved wrong. I think it would be one helluva great joke if the
Volkswagen builders of today could slip that one past 90 million anti-Nazi
Germans ... not to mention the few hundred folks who populate the rest of the
planet.
ObWorldDominationUL: That man-eating snake in the Alfa Romeo symbol is really
a sign that Mussolini is still out to get us. (And what's that weird Mazda
emblem really about? Is that a bomb dropping on Pearl Harbor?)
Larry Palletti
--
Opinionated, but lovable
Dambda Phi Letcha
"If you bend some of the letters in Binyamin Netanyahu's name just right, you
can see a swastika!"
Ray Depew
>
> Ray Depew wrote in message <3650A4...@hp.com>...
>
> >If you can't rotate a VW emblem at 60 km/h, then what can you do
> >with a VW emblem at 60 km/h?
>
Frisbee! Cool!
> "whichever way you slice it, it's still baloney".
Okay, I give. And I'll never use the phrase "talking a mile a
minute" again.
R
R "how many parsecs to do the Kessel run?"
Roger Carbol
> ObWorldDominationUL: That man-eating snake in the Alfa Romeo symbol is really
> a sign that Mussolini is still out to get us. (And what's that weird Mazda
> emblem really about? Is that a bomb dropping on Pearl Harbor?)
And why did Datsun change their name to KFC?
.. Roger Carbol .. r...@shaw.wave.ca .. hyundai as not like sunday
yu...@bgs.com
The idea that the ****'s solicited the design of the VW has been addressed
here before, but I don't recall that it was settled. If you look at the page
http://members.xoom.com/gvw/noframes/misc/history/bugs.htm, it contains a
history of the bug design. Doctor ferdinand Porsche (Ferry was his son) had
been playing with the design of a light, air-cooled, cheap car, and had
already been in two joint ventures with NSU and Zundapp by 1932. These did
not work out, and Dr. Porsche continued actively peddling his design. When
H***** and the ****** came to power in 1933, Porsche approached them with his
proposal, and gained a contract to produce a prototype. It was only after
the RDA (not going to try to reproduce long german phrase here) tried to
block the contract that H***** got involved.
The dates for the founding of Porsche's company and the joint ventures is
confirmed on
http://www.us.porsche.com/english/company/history/milestones/years.htm
Joe "Nader should have gone after the VW instead of the corvair" Yuska
Michael D. Richey
> In article <3650C7...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Suf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > Yipes this has gone far afield! I did not intend in my original
> > response to dwell this long on the question of rotational speed. What
> > I hoped to do was point out the the connection between the Volkwagon
> > and the Nazi regime is well documented -- the 1939 postage stamp is
> > but one example -- and there is no need to spin VW emblems in search
> > of hidden swastikas. Figuratively speaking, the swastika has been
> > right up front on the Volkswagon since the car's inception!
> >
> > ---Steve
> >
>
> I wouldn't be surprised to find swastikas painted all over the original
> Volkswagens. The German government actively supported automotive innovation
> throughout the era and proudly put its mark on the cars themselves. Note that
> the Grand Prix cars of Mercedes Benz and Auto Union carried big black
> swastikas on their bodywork in the late Thirties. Of course, they've lost
> them since -- probably smart marketing.
>
> But there's a definite need to spin the Volkswagen emblems, because that was
> your original claim -- that swastikas appear in some kind of optical trick.
No it wasn't. That was James Liley's claim.
> It shouldn't be too hard to prove/disprove. Just go find one, Steve, and spin
> the hell out of it. Or watch a VeeDub roll by and tell us what you really see.
> Not what you "figuratively" see; give us a literal read, unencumbered by any
> predilection you obviously now harbor.
>
> Hey, this is *your* claim.
No it isn't, it is James Liley's claim.
> *You* spin the damned hubcap, then convince all
> these inquiring minds. We really wanna know. And while I personally think
> you're standing knee-deep in a pile of unadulterated horseshit, I'm willing
> to be proved wrong.
You mean you James Liley is standing knee-deep in a pile of unadulterated
horseshit.
> I think it would be one helluva great joke if the
> Volkswagen builders of today could slip that one past 90 million anti-Nazi
> Germans ... not to mention the few hundred folks who populate the rest of the
> planet.
>
> ObWorldDominationUL: That man-eating snake in the Alfa Romeo symbol is really
> a sign that Mussolini is still out to get us. (And what's that weird Mazda
> emblem really about? Is that a bomb dropping on Pearl Harbor?)
>
> Larry Palletti
> --
Mike "I prefer my horsehit adulterated" Richey
Stephen Suffet
>
>
> But there's a definite need to spin the Volkswagen emblems, because that was
> your original claim -- that swastikas appear in some kind of optical trick.
> It shouldn't be too hard to prove/disprove. Just go find one, Steve, and spin
> the hell out of it. Or watch a VeeDub roll by and tell us what you really see.
> Not what you "figuratively" see; give us a literal read, unencumbered by any
> predilection you obviously now harbor.
>
> Hey, this is *your* claim. *You* spin the damned hubcap, then convince all
> these inquiring minds. We really wanna know. And while I personally think
> you're standing knee-deep in a pile of unadulterated horseshit, I'm willing
> to be proved wrong. I think it would be one helluva great joke if the
> Volkswagen builders of today could slip that one past 90 million anti-Nazi
> Germans ... not to mention the few hundred folks who populate the rest of the
> planet.
>
Greetings----
NO! It was not my claim! Please don't flame the wrong person.
My first posting was a _response_ to the swastika claim, which I
found dubious at best. My point was -- and still is -- there is no
need to perpetuate this silly UL. The connection between the Nazi
regime and the original Volkswagon is well-documented. And I pointed
out the WV stamp as an example of such documentation.
----Steve
JoAnne Schmitz
>In a previous article, "Ben Walsh" <her...@dalymount.com> said:
>>Nope; I would imagine (there are VW experts around here, they're not me)
>>that VW wheels and hubcaps have come in a variety different shapes and sizes
>>over the years, and the VW logo is different sizes on them. What marks this
>
>AFAIK, the VW Beetle has had the same 13 inch tire and wheel from WW II up to
>the present day. Doesn't matter what size the VW logo was, it would rotate
>the same number of rpm at 60km/hr no matter what size it was, as long as the
>tire was the same size.
>
>But the whole concept doesn't make sense unless you were talking about the
>image of one taken with a cine-camera or under florescent bulbs - something to
>get a flicker that would "stop" the motion in some manner.
Superimposing the logo on itself four times with transparency is difficult for
me to do but the results are here:
http://www.qis.net/~jschmitz/vw2.jpg
I did get an interesting result by rotating the image around a center point
which is outside the logo:
http://www.qis.net/~jschmitz/vwswas.jpg
I took 60 Hz for the frequency of the lights and, given a wheel radius of 13
inches, I get about 13 rpm at 60mph. Fairly close to 4 flashes of light per
complete rotation.
If 13 inch tire means 13 inches diameter, then it's about 26 rpm which means
you'd only get two images which isn't very interesting.
Rotating the image only 78 degrees per flash is even less interesting.
JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
----- some favorite web sites -----
general search: http://www.altavista.com (web) or http://www.dejanews.com (newsgroups)
UL search: http://www.urbanlegends.com or http://www.snopes.com
Øystein Skundberg
>
> A friend told me ( as all ULs go) that when the volkawagon symbol is spun at
> 60 km/h, It is possible to see a swastika.
>
>
> James Liley
Bear in mind that the VW symbol is nothing but a V on top of a W.The
fact that it hasn't changed means that it's an excellent piece of
graphic design, nothing else.
(But if you stand on you head and squint at a VW hubcap at midnight, you
can see the devil)
Øystein "..or you get dizzy" Skundberg
Øystein Skundberg
mince...@switchboardmail.com
You are absolutely right, Steve, and I apologize to you and to the group in
general.
Now bring this other guy on. He's got some hubcap spinning to do.
Larry Palletti
--
Opinionated, but lovable
Iota Nu Beta
"Parce mihi, pater, quod numque AFU vocificabur." -- Nah.
Chris Borg
cdim...@snet.net
> The Nazi-era Volkwagon was commemorated on a German postage stamp
> issued at the International Automobile Show in Berlin from February 17
> through March 5, 1939. The stamp is listed in the Michel Briefmarken-
> Katalog (the standard catalog of German philately) as No. 688.
Just so there is no confusion: the stamp was not issued
primarily to feature Volkswagon, and it was in one sense
not a regular postage stamp, but rather a semipostal
stamp, in which part of the cost of the stamp went for
the cost of postage and part went to a charity.
The stamp was issued in commemoration of the Berlin
Automobile and Motorcycle Exhibition. The surtax on the
stamp was for Hitler's National Cultural Fund. It was
one of a series of three stamps: the 6 pfennig (+4pf)
was the one used for most internal postage and featured
early types of automobiles; the 12pf (+8 pf) featured
racing cars, and the 25pf (+10pf) featured the "modern"
automobile. Although it looked like a Volkswagon, I
don't remember it being labeled as a Volkswagon on the
stamp.
Charles Wm. "former philatelist and ex-chicken farmer" Dimmick
mince...@switchboardmail.com
cdim...@snet.net wrote:
> In article <364EC0...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Suf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > The Nazi-era Volkwagon was commemorated on a German postage stamp
> > issued at the International Automobile Show in Berlin from February 17
> > through March 5, 1939. The stamp is listed in the Michel Briefmarken-
> > Katalog (the standard catalog of German philately) as No. 688.
>
> Just so there is no confusion: the stamp was not issued
> I don't remember it being labeled as a Volkswagon on the
> stamp.
>
> Charles Wm. "former philatelist and ex-chicken farmer" Dimmick
Right on, sir. I never saw VW markings on that stamp. What most folks have
forgotten is that Mercedes Benz built a car that looked very much like the
Volkswagen, and at about the same time (late Thirties). A copy of the car now
sits in the M-B Museum at Untertürkheim. (Sorry, I lost my umlauted capital
U.)
In fact, if you go back a few more years, you'll find the Chrysler Airflow.
1934, as I recall. The then-modern design is also quite Volkswagenish. (This
is not to suggest the car on the stamp might be a Chrysler; just that the
swoopy design wasn't restricted to VeeDub. [1]
Hmmm. 1934 Chrysler ... 1938 Mercedes Benz ... 1999 Chrycedes Benz. Maybe they
knew something.
[1]: ObCherman: That's FowVay to you guys. And please forgive us. We really do
know it's spelled "Volkswagen."
^
Larry Palletti
East Point, Georgia
--
Opinionated, but lovable
Iota Nu Beta
"Chicken farmer, huh? I understand they taste a lot like philatelist."
Ben Walsh
>yes I tried it and it does look like a swastika
No you didn't, you lying hound.
ben "and you can cut glass underwater, *if you use a pair of scissors*" w.
Stephen Suffet
>
> In article <364EC0...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Suf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > The Nazi-era Volkwagon was commemorated on a German postage stamp
> > issued at the International Automobile Show in Berlin from February 17
> > through March 5, 1939. The stamp is listed in the Michel Briefmarken-
> > Katalog (the standard catalog of German philately) as No. 688.
>
> Just so there is no confusion: the stamp was not issued
> not a regular postage stamp, but rather a semipostal
> stamp, in which part of the cost of the stamp went for
> the cost of postage and part went to a charity.
>
> The stamp was issued in commemoration of the Berlin
> Automobile and Motorcycle Exhibition. The surtax on the
> stamp was for Hitler's National Cultural Fund. It was
> one of a series of three stamps: the 6 pfennig (+4pf)
> was the one used for most internal postage and featured
> early types of automobiles; the 12pf (+8 pf) featured
> racing cars, and the 25pf (+10pf) featured the "modern"
> don't remember it being labeled as a Volkswagon on the
> stamp.
>
> Charles Wm. "former philatelist and ex-chicken farmer" Dimmick
>
Greetings:
The 25pf (+ 10pf) stamp which pictured a "modern" automobile did
in fact picture a contemporary Volkswagon. Although it doesn't say so
on the stamp, the Michel Briefmarken-Katalog identified the image as
"Volkswagon."
Charles Dimmick is correct that the stamp was a semi-postal issue
(much like the recent breast cancer fundraising stamp issued by the US
Postal Service). The basic 25pf of the Volkswagon stamp paid Germany's
international letter rate for up to 20 grams.
Most of the stamps were sold to collectors, as most people who
simply wanted to mail a letter had no great desire to purchase stamps
with the "charity" surcharge. Very clever of those Nazis to get stamp
collectors to finance what they (i.e. the Nazis) deemed to be culture!
Regards again,
Steve
oval_97
jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) writes:
>I took 60 Hz for the frequency of the lights and, given a wheel radius of 13
>inches, I get about 13 rpm at 60mph. Fairly close to 4 flashes of light per >>complete rotation.
>If 13 inch tire means 13 inches diameter, then it's about 26 rpm which means
>you'd only get two images which isn't very interesting.
Actually,I'm afraid that Beetle's have always come with 15 inch rims, I
think Mini's came with the 13 inchers
Oval
'63 Sedan
'54 Sunroof Sedan
cdim...@snet.net
mince...@switchboardmail.com wrote:
> In article <731868$99i$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> cdim...@snet.net wrote:
> > Charles Wm. "former philatelist and ex-chicken farmer" Dimmick
> "Chicken farmer, huh? I understand they taste a lot like philatelist."
Don't forget that in 1948 the United States Postal Service
philatelized a chicken. Of course, the French beat them to it,
having philatelized a whole flock of chickens, back in 1944,
in public too!
Charles
Kevin D. Quitt
>Rotating the image only 78 degrees per flash is even less interesting.
>
>JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
Was that another chicken joke?
--
#include <standard.disclaimer>
_
Kevin D Quitt USA 91351-4454 96.37% of all statistics are made up
Per the FCA, this email address may not be added to any commercial mail list
Lon Stowell
Kevin D. Quitt <Ke...@Quitt.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:24:02 GMT, jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) wrote:
>>Rotating the image only 78 degrees per flash is even less interesting.
>>
>>JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
>
>Was that another chicken joke?
No, but it dates you if you catch either reference.
Lon "jugs" Stowell.
Richard Brandt
> Most of the stamps were sold to collectors, as most people who
> simply wanted to mail a letter had no great desire to purchase stamps
> with the "charity" surcharge. Very clever of those Nazis to get stamp
> collectors to finance what they (i.e. the Nazis) deemed to be culture!
Which explains why when I hear the word "philately" I reach for
my revolver.
Richard "Original Gum" Brandt
--
== Richard Brandt is at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8720/ ==
"The photography, and it is in color, was satisfactory when there
was proper lighting which was most of the times."
--Barbara Funkhouser reviews "Manos" for the El Paso Times, 1966
Stephen Suffet
>
> Stephen Suffet wrote:
>
> > Most of the stamps were sold to collectors, as most people
> > who simply wanted to mail a letter had no great desire to purchase
> > stamps with the "charity" surcharge. Very clever of those Nazis to
> > get stamp collectors to finance what they (i.e. the Nazis) deemed
> > to be culture!
>
> Which explains why when I hear the word "philately" I reach for
> my revolver.
>
> Richard "Original Gum" Brandt
>
Dear OG:
Are you threatening murder or suicide or both? Or do I take you
to mean that hearing the word "philately" causes you reach for an old
Beatles LP? In which case, "Revolver" should begin with a capital let-
ter. Unless you are an orthographic disciple of e.e. cummings.
I'm certain your response will be of interest to:
1. La Fédération Internationale de Philatelie, the very serious world-
wide organization who will probably insist that Interpol begin a file
on you (if that agency has not already done so).
2. Michael Jackson, who owns the rights to all the Beatles recordings.
:-)
[Smiley applies to entire foregoing message.]
Sincerely,
Steve "charter member of the American
Philatelic Society Ethics on the Internet
Committee" Suffet
Paul Tomblin
>In article <365810b1...@news.pacificnet.net>,
>Kevin D. Quitt <Ke...@Quitt.net> wrote:
>>>JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
>>
>>Was that another chicken joke?
Time for the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate Award.
> No, but it dates you if you catch either reference.
Well, it's not like anybody else would date me....
Phil Edwards
>In article <365810b1...@news.pacificnet.net>,
>Kevin D. Quitt <Ke...@Quitt.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:24:02 GMT, jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) wrote:
>>>Rotating the image only 78 degrees per flash is even less interesting.
>>>
>>>JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
>>
>>Was that another chicken joke?
>
> No, but it dates you if you catch either reference.
Does it help if I didn't realise there were two references in there?
Phil
"Kangaroos
are expensive.
But they're good."
Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"What, as they say, ever." - Ben Walsh
Simon Slavin
Ke...@Quitt.net (Kevin D. Quitt) wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:24:02 GMT, jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) wrote:
> >Rotating the image only 78 degrees per flash is even less interesting.
> >
> >JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
>
> Was that another chicken joke?
No, it's a Rowan and Martin joke about WWII propaganda movies.
Either that, or a reference to the Muppet Show which is a reference
to the above.
Simon "Funf" Slavin.
--
Simon Slavin. No junk email please. | Do you have a point, or just a
<http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk> | modem and time on your hands ?
| -- Richard Casady
Kevin D. Quitt
wrote:
From the show Laugh-In. Joane Worley would ask the chicken joke question. Arte
Johnson (dressed as a WWI german soldier, hiding behind some bushes), would do
the "verryy..." bit.
Kennedy
> From the show Laugh-In. Joane Worley would ask the chicken joke question. Arte
> Johnson (dressed as a WWI german soldier, hiding behind some bushes), would do
> the "verryy..." bit.
Which is what I thought, but wasn't his line "verrry interesting.. but
domb?" Or am I just not getting the double refferance?
-K. "Getting out of here before I hurt me" Kennedy
--
Kaneda ŕ c (Kennedy)
wylde...@earthlink.net
UIN:6801093
Kevin D. Quitt
>Kevin D. Quitt wrote:
>
>> From the show Laugh-In. Joane Worley would ask the chicken joke question. Arte
>> Johnson (dressed as a WWI german soldier, hiding behind some bushes), would do
>> the "verryy..." bit.
> Which is what I thought, but wasn't his line "verrry interesting.. but
>domb?"
The part after "verrry interesting" would vary.
Or am I just not getting the double refferance?
The two references are Arte's and Joane's lines.
JasCJones
(minor snippage)
>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:14:17 -0500, Kennedy <wylde...@earthlink.net>
>>Kevin D. Quitt wrote:
>>
>>> From the show Laugh-In. Joane Worley would ask the chicken joke question.
>Arte
>>> Johnson (dressed as a WWI german soldier, hiding behind some bushes),
>would do
>>> the "verryy..." bit.
>> Which is what I thought, but wasn't his line "verrry interesting.. but
>>domb?"
>
>The part after "verrry interesting" would vary.
>
>
>Or am I just not getting the double refferance?
>
>The two references are Arte's and Joane's lines.
I am willing to bet there were as many references as the writers could think
of. One bit which did not make it onto the air was Joanne Worley holding two
jugs and saying "Jugs."
Jim "that would make four" Jones
AOL made a profit last quarter - JasC...@aol.common.org
Lon Stowell
>
>I am willing to bet there were as many references as the writers could think
>of. One bit which did not make it onto the air was Joanne Worley holding two
>jugs and saying "Jugs."
Eggshoeally Ms. Worley DID make it on the air, holding two
grecian urns, uddering the single word "jugs".
Bill Kinkaid
>
>AFAIK, the VW Beetle has had the same 13 inch tire and wheel from WW II up to
>the present day. Doesn't matter what size the VW logo was, it would rotate
>the same number of rpm at 60km/hr no matter what size it was, as long as the
>tire was the same size.
>
My three Rabbits all had 13" tires, but I'm pretty sure my Beetle had 15"
or at least 14" on it. I didn't own it long enough to buy tires for it, as
it was pretty decrepit and wasn't long for the Old Volks Home,.
Bill in Vancouver
(delete EAT-SPAM-AND-DIE
from e-mail address to respond)
Paul Tomblin
>ptom...@canoe.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>
>>AFAIK, the VW Beetle has had the same 13 inch tire and wheel from WW II up to
>>the present day. Doesn't matter what size the VW logo was, it would rotate
>>the same number of rpm at 60km/hr no matter what size it was, as long as the
>>tire was the same size.
>>
>
>My three Rabbits all had 13" tires, but I'm pretty sure my Beetle had 15"
>or at least 14" on it. I didn't own it long enough to buy tires for it, as
>it was pretty decrepit and wasn't long for the Old Volks Home,.
You're probably right. It's been a while since I had my '72, but I remember:
a) Beetles took a weird size that just about nobody else did and
b) My brother's '52 (aka Hitler's Revenge, until he souped it up) took the
same size as my '72 Super Beetle and my mum's '76 convertable SunBug.
JoAnne Schmitz
>Kevin D. Quitt wrote:
>
>> From the show Laugh-In. Joane Worley would ask the chicken joke question. Arte
>> Johnson (dressed as a WWI german soldier, hiding behind some bushes), would do
>> the "verryy..." bit.
> Which is what I thought, but wasn't his line "verrry interesting.. but
>domb?" Or am I just not getting the double refferance?
Verrry interesting. (puff) But Schtupid.
JoAnne "check my last name for vorification" Schmitz
Frank O'Donnell
>>of. One bit which did not make it onto the air was Joanne Worley holding two
>>jugs and saying "Jugs."
>
> Eggshoeally Ms. Worley DID make it on the air, holding two
> grecian urns, uddering the single word "jugs".
True, saw it myself.
Rusty "By the way, what's a Grecian urn?" O'Donnell
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Rusty "By the way, what's a Grecian urn?" O'Donnell
Oh, about 12 drachmas a day.
Charles Wm. "or did you want that in obols?" Dimmick
Phil Edwards
>Verrry interesting. (puff) But Schtupid.
I was ten or eleven when Laugh-In got shown over here. (I wanted to be
Jeremy Lloyd when I grew up).
The line JoAnne quoted struck me at the time as positively the
funniest thing ever. Ever. Still makes me laugh, in fact.
Phil "and I still know the words to about half of _Hair_" Edwards
H Gilmer
: Phil "and I still know the words to about half of _Hair_" Edwards
Hey, I still know the words to more than half of _Hair_. And Alice's
Restaurant. And I wasn't born when either of those came out.
Hg
RRS
> Hey, I still know the words to more than half of _Hair_. And Alice's
> Restaurant. And I wasn't born when either of those came out.
The Cowsill's version?
Robin "Was there a difference?" Storesund
Madeleine Page
: Phil Edwards (amr...@zetnet.co.uk.NOJUNK) wrote:
: : Phil "and I still know the words to about half of _Hair_" Edwards
: Hey, I still know the words to more than half of _Hair_.
Know every bloody word to every bloody song from _Hair_. After all, I saw
the damn thing 437 times. A theatre publicist's life was not a happy one.
: And Alice's
: Restaurant. And I wasn't born when either of those came out.
Boasting, you young whippersnapper, is damnably, ah, *boastful*.
Madeleine "apropos _Hair_, anyone know any songs about$!~*%@K
NO CAREER
Gypsypagan
>Ray Depew wrote in message <3650A4...@hp.com>...
>>If you can't rotate a VW emblem at 60 km/h, then what can you do
>>with a VW emblem at 60 km/h?
>Throw it at someone?
>>I suggest that the original poster meant something like: "If
>>you drive a VW beetle at 60 km/h and observe the rotating hubcaps ..."
>>Many newbies here have a problem with imprecision in their statements.
>I think it goes beyond imprecision: the whole idea has so many fatal flaws
>that you can pick one, any one. Or, as a quaint merkin expression goes,
>"whichever way you slice it, it's still baloney".
>ben "still baloney" w.
Except for one thing... I am looking at the image that JoAnne Schmitz
created of the four VW symbols rotated about a point outside of the
symbol itself, and there is a swastika in the image. If you look at it
with your eyes slightly unfocused, it jumps out at you.
http//www.qis.net/~jschmitz/vwswas.jpg
If you look at it from a slightly different angle, you can also see SS
lightning bolt symbols.
H Gilmer
: Except for one thing... I am looking at the image that JoAnne Schmitz
: created of the four VW symbols rotated about a point outside of the
: symbol itself, and there is a swastika in the image. If you look at it
: with your eyes slightly unfocused, it jumps out at you.
: http//www.qis.net/~jschmitz/vwswas.jpg
If you make a 4-way pinwheel with just about anything, you're likely
to get swastikas.
Hg
Kevin D. Quitt
>H Gilmer <gil...@uts.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Know every bloody word to every bloody song from _Hair_. After all, I saw
>the damn thing 437 times. A theatre publicist's life was not a happy one.
>Madeleine "apropos _Hair_, anyone know any songs about$!~*%@K
>
>NO CAREER
If you don't like your job, get a new one! Or is that what you're telling us?
Gypsypagan
>In article <365810b1...@news.pacificnet.net>,
>Kevin D. Quitt <Ke...@Quitt.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:24:02 GMT, jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz) wrote:
>>>Rotating the image only 78 degrees per flash is even less interesting.
>>>
>>>JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
>>
>>Was that another chicken joke?
> No, but it dates you if you catch either reference.
> Lon "jugs" Stowell.
78 RPM record player
Hogan's Heros
Not too shabby for a young whipper snaper.
Gypsypagan (23 yrs old and with a head full of useless knowledge)
Stephen Suffet
>
> Except for one thing... I am looking at the image that JoAnne
> Schmitz created of the four VW symbols rotated about a point outside
> of the symbol itself, and there is a swastika in the image. If you
> look at it with your eyes slightly unfocused, it jumps out at you.
>
>
> If you look at it from a slightly different angle, you can also see
> SS lightning bolt symbols.
Greetings:
You can generate a swastika by rotating almost ANY design with
straight lines and sharp angles around the properly chosen point! So
maybe the Nazi symbolism is there, intentionally or not. Or maybe it's
not there. Neither is important.
What is important -- and this is what I was trying to point out
when I changed the title of this thread to the one currently used --
is that the connection between the Nazi regime and the original Volks-
wagon ("People's Car") is well-documented. The 1939 WV stamp, listed
as number 688 in the Michel Briefmarken-Katalog, is just one example
of such documentation.
Having said that, let me add that the letters in both the VW logo
and the SS lightning bolt appear to be in the style of the Runic al-
phabet. But the letters V and W look that way ordinarily, and it's no
surprise that you can generate the Runic SS by rotating them. Straight
lines and sharp angles, you know! :-)
Regards again,
Steve
J. Michael Looney
> > the "verryy..." bit.
> Which is what I thought, but wasn't his line "verrry interesting..
but
> domb?" Or am I just not getting the double refferance?
He said both, Some times he would say it with out the "but XXXX" part.
Mike "I was rather young when it was on the air" Looney
Ben Walsh
>Except for one thing... I am looking at the image that JoAnne Schmitz
>created of the four VW symbols rotated about a point outside of the
>symbol itself, and there is a swastika in the image. If you look at it
>with your eyes slightly unfocused, it jumps out at you.
Now, I would have thought that it wouldn't take a genius to see that almost
any shape rotated in such a fashion will produce a swastika-like pattern.
Try it with a straight line and see what happens.
ben "as soon as someone finds a swastika in "Moby-Dick" ...." w.
Timothy A. McDaniel
Then is the Obul the official currency of AFU?
--
Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tm...@crl.com;
if that fail, tm...@austin.ibm.com is my work address.
Viv
Timothy A. McDaniel wrote
:Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
:>Frank O'Donnell wrote:
:>> Rusty "By the way, what's a Grecian urn?" O'Donnell
:>Oh, about 12 drachmas a day.
:>Charles Wm. "or did you want that in obols?" Dimmick
:
:Then is the Obul the official currency of AFU?
Ab(sol)u(te)l(y). I'll take two-fifty in used bills, thanks.
Vivienne "I need it for cabbit food - Fang and Claw are starting to look
at me with calculation in their eyes and drool on their razor sharp
incisors" Smythe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.
JoAnne Schmitz
>Gypsypagan wrote in message <73df0d$all$1...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
>
>>Except for one thing... I am looking at the image that JoAnne Schmitz
>>created of the four VW symbols rotated about a point outside of the
>>symbol itself, and there is a swastika in the image. If you look at it
>>with your eyes slightly unfocused, it jumps out at you.
>
>
>Now, I would have thought that it wouldn't take a genius to see that almost
>any shape rotated in such a fashion will produce a swastika-like pattern.
>Try it with a straight line and see what happens.
Not to mention (again) that it was created by rotating the image around a point
outside the image, that is, it would be seen if you had the VW logo somewhere
about an inch or two from the center of the hubcap. When it's in the center it
doesn't look like much of anything. Well, probably; it's just a simulation.
JoAnne "where nothing can go wrong go wrong go wrong" Schmitz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's much easier to believe that there's a | http://www.urbanlegends.com
bald man sitting in a chair stroking his | http://www.snopes.com
white cat and chuckling as sales of hydrogenated | http://www.dejanews.com
fats continue to rise." ben walsh on afu | http://www.altavista.com
Matt Allen
Bob Church
tm...@crl.com (Timothy A. McDaniel) wrote:
>In article <3659D403...@ccsu.edu>,
>Charles Wm. Dimmick <dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote:
>>Frank O'Donnell wrote:
>>> Rusty "By the way, what's a Grecian urn?" O'Donnell
>>Oh, about 12 drachmas a day.
>>Charles Wm. "or did you want that in obols?" Dimmick
>
>Then is the Obul the official currency of AFU?
>
>--
>Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tm...@crl.com;
I thought it was the official bird.
Bob Church
Henrik Schmidt
>
> you comies suck
Hey, I resemble that remark! Not all of us post from a .com domain.
Henrik "You lousy troll, you" Schmidt
--
Remove DAMN.SPAM. from my address to reply
H.W.M.
So
> maybe the Nazi symbolism is there, intentionally or not. Or maybe it's
> not there. Neither is important.
Ahem!
There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we have
discussed before.
For a quick reminder:
The usage of a swastika in Finnish airplanes started in 1918 (1),
when Adolf was recooperating from his syphilis and gas burns. And the
symbol was used well into the 1950's (2), actually still is in some
air force insignia (3), flags etc. So please do not foam over all
swastikas being nazi symbols!(4)
(1)http://www.jiop.fi/ksimuseo/aboutswa.html
(2)Not a good picture at all, but the chain the president wears has
stylized swastikas. a new chain was made after some Soviet comments
and the new one has stylized stars instead.
http://www.pmk.posti.fi/kilpa/aiheet/ukk.html
(3)The FAF Air Combat Academy homepage
http://www.mil.fi/ilmask/index.htm
(4) Check out the symbol on the book cover at Ganesha's feet...
http://www.temple.org/pictures/sarasetc.jpg
Cheers!
--
Henry Wilhelm >>> hen...@gnwmail.com <<<
*********************************************
* I could be bounded in a nut-shell, *
* and count myself a king of infinite space,*
* were it not that I have bad dreams. *
*********************************************
Stephen Suffet
>
> Stephen Suffet wrote:
> So
> > maybe the Nazi symbolism is there, intentionally or not. Or maybe
> > it's not there. Neither is important.
>
> Ahem!
>
> There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we
> For a quick reminder:
>
> The usage of a swastika in Finnish airplanes started in 1918 (1),
> when Adolf was recooperating from his syphilis and gas burns. And
> the symbol was used well into the 1950's (2), actually still is in
> some air force insignia (3), flags etc. So please do not foam over
> all swastikas being nazi symbols!(4)
[remainder snipped]
Greetings:
Yes, the swastika was not and is not always a Nazi symbol. How-
ever, in the context of this thread it is.
The original posting had to do with whether one could generate a
swastika by rotating the VW logo. Apparently it can be done, but only
by rotating it about a point outside of the logo. It cannot be done by
rotating the logo around its center. The issue was of importance to
some people because the connection between the Volkswagon and the Nazi
regime is well documented.
Regards,
Steve
lech...@uswest.net
on the car caused veterans to have flash backs and severe headaches when it was
viewed at speeds under 55 mph. If the symbol was spun at a rapid speed, it
usually resulted in a crushed roof, broken glass and injuries.
Tim Haines
about 1918!
H.W.M. wrote in message <365F098C...@spam.com>...
H.W.M.
> The original posting had to do with whether one could generate a
> swastika by rotating the VW logo. Apparently it can be done, but only
> by rotating it about a point outside of the logo. It cannot be done by
> rotating the logo around its center. The issue was of importance to
> some people because the connection between the Volkswagon and the Nazi
> regime is well documented.
Firstly, it is a Volkswag_e_n.
Secondly, in the Nazi times it was known as the KdF-Wagen. KdF comes
from Kraft durch Freude, which was similar to the Soviet Komsomol
organization that arranged stuff for the workers. I think the name
Volkswagen was coined at the time when the British started to get the
industry running.
Steven
what is the difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol?
--
Steven,
Elfwood Sci-Fi & Fantasy Library & Galleries
http://www.elfwood.com
Gallery 44
http://www.elfwood.com/lothlorien/artists/steven/steven.html
Kings Inn
http://members.aol.com/Lilbit1709/index.html
lus...@rocketmail.com
"H.W.M." <mun...@spam.com> wrote:
> Ahem!
>
> There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we have
> discussed before.
>
> The usage of a swastika in Finnish airplanes started in 1918 (1),
> when Adolf was recooperating from his syphilis and gas burns. And the
> symbol was used well into the 1950's (2), actually still is in some
> air force insignia (3), flags etc. So please do not foam over all
> swastikas being nazi symbols!(4)
>
For those who start wondering where Mr Hitler got his swastika, it might be
worth mentioning that a German fellow had earlier (around the turn of the
century) designated the swastika as the common symbol of all anti-semites
(whom he wished to unite into a potent force...).
Lustig (who hasn´t got a clue why the German fellow picked the swastika, of
all available symbols; possibly it was believed to be linked with the Norse
god of war and wrath)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tim Haines
but I'm afraid I can't give you any references on that.
Steven wrote in message <366236...@earthlink.net>...
>Tim Haines wrote:
>>
>> I have seen the Swastika on British National Savings Stamps dating from
>> about 1918!
>> H.W.M. wrote in message <365F098C...@spam.com>...
>> >Stephen Suffet wrote:
>>
>> >There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we have
>> >discussed before.
>
Richard Casady
>
> I believe it may depend on whether the arms rotate to the left or the right,
> but I'm afraid I can't give you any references on that.
>
> Steven wrote in message <366236...@earthlink.net>...
> >Tim Haines wrote:
> >>
> >> I have seen the Swastika on British National Savings Stamps dating from
> >> about 1918!
> >> H.W.M. wrote in message <365F098C...@spam.com>...
> >> >Stephen Suffet wrote:
> >>
> >> >There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we have
> >> >discussed before.
> >
> >what is the difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol?
Get real. There are lots of nazi symbols and lots of swastikas.
The eagle is a nazi symbol, as well as an american one, and the
Germans mark their military equipment with a cross, just as we
put a white star on our tanks, and the russians use a red one.
Doesn't mean anyone has exclusive use of the shape, and the
swastika is found in american indian art, and in other places.
On the bindings and title pages of some Kipling books I own,
for one thing. Stuff published when Hitler was in diapers.
Casady
Matthew and Colleen Hunt
car". Hitler thought that everyone should be able to afford a car and
thats where the Volkswagen originated.
Matt Hunt
David Hatunen
You need to check your history. As the other poster noted, the car
was originally the KdF-Wagen, and the vagaries of the situation
resulted in most of the rather limtied production going to members
of the Officer Corps and politicians. The factory was built in a
new town called in a rather ugly German manner "KdF-Stadt"; the
name was changed to Wolfsburg after the war.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California: *
* where San Francisco meets The Peninsula *
******* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *******
Steve F.
Richard Casady wrote:
The bird seen on Nazi military equipment was a thunderbird, not an eagle.
Brian Yeoh
> Richard Casady wrote:
> > Get real. There are lots of nazi symbols and lots of swastikas.
> > The eagle is a nazi symbol, as well as an american one, and the
> > Germans mark their military equipment with a cross, just as we
> > put a white star on our tanks, and the russians use a red one.
> > Doesn't mean anyone has exclusive use of the shape, and the
> > swastika is found in american indian art, and in other places.
> > On the bindings and title pages of some Kipling books I own,
> > for one thing. Stuff published when Hitler was in diapers.
And your source for this is?
Brian "eagerly awaiting" Yeoh
-- It is like making love in a confessional with a prostitute
dressed in a prelate's liturgical robes reciting Baudelaire while ten
electronic organs reproduce "The Well Tempered Clavier" played by
Scriabin.
Umberto Eco, "Faith in Fakes"
D. A. Kelly
> Tim Haines wrote:
> > >There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we have
> > >discussed before.
>
> what is the difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol?
A Swastika is a cross with bent arms (going in either direction) and has
been used as a symbol in various religions since before recorded history.
A nazi symbol is a black right-handed swastika on a white circle on a red
background and is used by people who belong to, or subscribe to the
beliefs of, a German political party that flourished from the late 1920s
until the summer of 1945.
In short: all nazi symbols are swastikas, but not all swastikas are nazi
symbols. However, swastikas in general are much less popular nowadays
because of their associations with the Nazi symbol.
Is this all perfectly clear?
Cambias
a swastika is a short pointed object used for sticking swas
Stephen Austin
>all available symbols; possibly it was believed to be linked with the Norse
>god of war and wrath)
associations. Today you can see swastikas all over Asia where there is
or has been Buddhist influences. In fact the name comes from the
Sanskrit which may be liberally translated as 'good fortune.'
Phil Edwards
Consulting my well-thumbed copy of Nicholas Goodrich-Clarke's _The
Occult Roots of Nazism_, I find that:
- the swastika was widely used among German mystical nationalist
groups in the early years of this century
- both forms were used, but the right-handed version was most common
- the swastika was proposed as the emblem of the NSDAP at the time of
its founding by Friedrich Krohn, a long-time voelkisch occultist
- Krohn suggested all the elements of the Nazi emblem (black swastika
on white circle on red background) but with a curved and *left-handed*
swastika; this was justified on the basis that left-handed swastikas
symbolised good fortune, right-handed the opposite
- Hitler insisted on a straight-armed, right-handed swastika
Just to dot the i's and cross the t's, Hitler's preference for the
right-handed version was *not* justified on the grounds of its evil
mystical associations. (Believe it or not, the NSDAP of 1920 was not
composed of people who sat around cackling about how evil they were).
Phil "in Prussia they never - oops, wrong thread" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"What, as they say, ever." - Ben Walsh
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> A Swastika is a cross with bent arms (going in either direction) and has
> been used as a symbol in various religions since before recorded history.
> A nazi symbol is a black right-handed swastika on a white circle on a red
> background and is used by people who belong to, or subscribe to the
> beliefs of, a German political party that flourished from the late 1920s
> until the summer of 1945.
>
> In short: all nazi symbols are swastikas, but not all swastikas are nazi
> symbols. However, swastikas in general are much less popular nowadays
> because of their associations with the Nazi symbol.
Bit of trivia gleaned back in the 50's, when I was still in high school and
flirted briefly with Rosicrucian propaganda. I remember an article in one
of their publications which derived the swastika from the joining together
of four builder's squares, the gist of this being that a builder's square was
a symbol for a builder (or Tekton in Greek) and the four builders were
in some sort of arcane pseudo-greek mythology the original architects of
the creation of the world, thus the swastika was a symbol of creation.
Does this ring any bells with anyone?
Charles Wm. "Plate Tektonist" Dimmick
Clinton Pierce
On Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:07:41 -0800, Steven <kng...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>Tim Haines wrote:
>>
>> I have seen the Swastika on British National Savings Stamps dating from
>> about 1918!
>> H.W.M. wrote in message <365F098C...@spam.com>...
>> >Stephen Suffet wrote:
>>
>> >There is a difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol as we have
>> >discussed before.
>
>what is the difference between a swastika and a nazi symbol?
An entire page (with pictures!) devoted to the non-Nazi use of the
swastika:
http://www.ambient.on.ca./swastika/new.html
While somewhat...um...silly, it does have links elsewhere.
--
Clinton A. Pierce "If you rush a Miracle Man, you get rotten
cpie...@ford.com miracles" --Miracle Max, The Princess Bride
fu...@ameritech.net http://www.dcicorp.com/~clintp
Jean Scully
Gypsypagan wrote:
> lsto...@triton.dnai.com (Lon Stowell) wrote:
>
> >>>JoAnne "verrrry interesting...but schtupid" Schmitz
> >>
> >>Was that another chicken joke?
>
> > No, but it dates you if you catch either reference.
>
> Hogan's Heros
>
> Not too shabby for a young whipper snaper.
>
> Gypsypagan (23 yrs old and with a head full of useless knowledge)
Apologies if this was corrected in another posting -- but "Verrry interesting
-- but schtupid" was from Laugh-in, not Hogan's Heroes. Artie Johnson, dressed
in a German soldier's uniform, would pop up from behind some shrubbery and
deliver that line as a commentary on a previous bit of humor. He's the same guy
who used to do the recurring gags about the dirty old man in the park and the
falling-over tricyclist.
Sgt Schultz on "Hogan's Heroes" was known for "I see nothing... I know nothing!"
Jean "say goodnight, Dick" Scully
Ray Depew
> Sgt Schultz on "Hogan's Heroes" was known for "I see nothing... I know nothing!"
I'm not nermally one to corecct misspelling, but I beleive yew spelled
"nottink" wrong.
R
R
H.W.M.
>
> Jean Scully wrote:
Methinks y'all missed " Allo Allo"