Drowning Duck Experiment?
Duane Morin
the effect of detergent/water combinations, where a duck is set swimming in
a small bath of water, to which a small amount of detergent is added. The
detergent breaks the surface tension of the water, and the poor duck gets
too wet and sinks.
Question: Can anyone document this? Is there some sort of chemistry
explanation for it? And, perhaps most importantly, does anyone that knows
this story know what kind of detergent (in particular what chemical) was
used? We are looking for something that we can add to a water bath to
facilitate getting objects wet. If this exists, it might be what we're
looking for.
Thanks,
Duane Morin
Walker Sonix, Inc.
Worcester, Ma 01604
Leslie Basel
It was also a Perry Mason episode (The Case of the Drowning Duck),
The duck floats because of the oil on its feathers and the air trapped
within (the reason ducks are always preaning is to keep the feathers dry)
The detergent disolved the oil, the feathers got wet, and dragged the
duck under.
Rodger
mor...@ramblr.enet.dec.com
>One of the guys here at work tells a story about an early experiment in
>the effect of detergent/water combinations, where a duck is set swimming in
>a small bath of water, to which a small amount of detergent is added. The
>detergent breaks the surface tension of the water, and the poor duck gets
>too wet and sinks.
>
>Question: Can anyone document this? Is there some sort of chemistry
>explanation for it? And, perhaps most importantly, does anyone that knows
>this story know what kind of detergent (in particular what chemical) was
>used? We are looking for something that we can add to a water bath to
>facilitate getting objects wet. If this exists, it might be what we're
>looking for.
Yes. One of a series of Time-Life books on science has such a photograph
of a duck, which is obviously rather soaked and frustrated, and is riding
quite low in the water. I don't know exactly which in the series it is
offhand, though. I don't know which detergent they used, but almost any
detergent should work. That's how they work, they help oil and water to
'get along' more or less.
-Mike
Geoffrey M Fritz
>
>Yes. One of a series of Time-Life books on science has such a photograph
>of a duck, which is obviously rather soaked and frustrated, and is riding
>quite low in the water. I don't know exactly which in the series it is
>offhand, though.
I don`t know the name of the series, either, but the title of the book is
"Matter". Hopes this narrows the possibilies down, as there seem to be an
uncountable number of Time-Life series (or whatever the plural for "series"
may be).
-- Geoff
Ray Brownrigg
International (Nederland) N.V., Copyright 1968, Original English
Language edition Copyright 1963, 1965 by Time Inc. The photograph of the
duck on p.97 is credited to Albert Fenn.
--
Ray Brownrigg r...@isor.vuw.ac.nz
Ron Speirs
He said that they used
Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate
which according to a recent chemical catalog is now more "properly" called:
Bis(2-ethylhexyl)sulfosuccinate Sodium Salt
C20 H37 Na O7 S
I believe that this is the active ingredient in a medicine called "Colace",
which is a stool softener. Ask a pharmacist.
BTW, I've never tried the Duck Experiment.
Ron Speirs, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Robin Fairbairns
|>[...]
|>
|> I heard this story MANY years ago from my High School chemistry teacher.
|> He said that they used
|> Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate
|> which according to a recent chemical catalog is now more "properly" called:
|> Bis(2-ethylhexyl)sulfosuccinate Sodium Salt
|> C20 H37 Na O7 S
|> I believe that this is the active ingredient in a medicine called "Colace",
|> which is a stool softener. Ask a pharmacist.
If this is indeed true, one should see drowning ducks at any sewage
settling plant. Any decent-sized metropolis must perforce include
quite a lot of people with constipation at any one time.
What a way to go...
--
Robin (come back John Drummond) Fairbairns r...@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Lab, Pembroke St, Cambridge CB2 3QG, UK
"They had twelve years to lay in wait for us" - Bush supporter on Nov 4
Carl J Lydick
>BTW, can anyone confirm what someone told me that this effect is
>actually permanent? I heard that once this fat was dissolved, it
>didn't return, so that the bird, even with proper care, was unable
>to regain it's ability to swim and to stand cold water.
The claim that the effect is permanent is obviously utter nonsense. Otherwise
a duck would be permanently incapable of swimming after the first time it
molted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CA...@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Bjoern Tore Sund
|> In article <BxH3w...@javelin.sim.es.com>, rsp...@javelin.sim.es.com (Ron Speirs) writes:
|> |>[...]
|> |>
|> |> I heard this story MANY years ago from my High School chemistry teacher.
|> |> He said that they used
|> |> Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate
|> |> which according to a recent chemical catalog is now more "properly" called:
|> |> Bis(2-ethylhexyl)sulfosuccinate Sodium Salt
|> |> C20 H37 Na O7 S
|> |> I believe that this is the active ingredient in a medicine called "Colace",
|> |> which is a stool softener. Ask a pharmacist.
|>
|> If this is indeed true, one should see drowning ducks at any sewage
|> settling plant. Any decent-sized metropolis must perforce include
|> quite a lot of people with constipation at any one time.
Believe me, it _is_ true. I have done work on cleaning up after oil
leakages in the sea, and have had the opportunity to see the effect
on sea-birds up close. The oil dissolves the fat that keep the feathers
together, and enables the birds to stay afloat. It also takes away the
protection against cold that the feathers offer. In other words, if
they don't drown, they freeze to death from the cold water. Believe me,
it is _not_ a pretty or amusing sight.
BTW, can anyone confirm what someone told me that this effect is
actually permanent? I heard that once this fat was dissolved, it
didn't return, so that the bird, even with proper care, was unable
to regain it's ability to swim and to stand cold water.
--
___ ___
__ |__) | Bjoern Tore Sund (BT) Quote: "Nothing!"
|__) | bjo...@ii.uib.no - Marvin
Grant Edwards
: BTW, can anyone confirm what someone told me that this effect is
: actually permanent? I heard that once this fat was dissolved, it
: didn't return, so that the bird, even with proper care, was unable
: to regain it's ability to swim and to stand cold water.
Well, if the duck drowns, it's a permanent condition. If not, the
duck should be able to replace the oils that waterproof the feathers.
This activity is called "preening." Most birds have a gland (glands?)
on their rear-end that produce oil. The bird will take oil from this
gland and rub it onto the feathers with thier beak. At the same time,
the bird reconnects the little zipper-like structures that hold the
"branches" (can't remember the real word) of the feather together.
If the feathers themselves are actually damaged, the bird may be out
of commission until new feathers grow in.
--
Grant Edwards |Yow! Now I understand the
Rosemount Inc. |meaning of ``THE MOD
|SQUAD''!
gra...@aquarius.rosemount.com |
bay...@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
>In article <1992Nov16.1...@alf.uib.no>, bjo...@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) writes:
>>BTW, can anyone confirm what someone told me that this effect is
>>actually permanent? I heard that once this fat was dissolved, it
>>didn't return, so that the bird, even with proper care, was unable
>>to regain it's ability to swim and to stand cold water.
>
>The claim that the effect is permanent is obviously utter nonsense. Otherwise
>a duck would be permanently incapable of swimming after the first time it
>molted.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as Carl said, they're at least better after the next moulting.
(I have heard of volunteers cleaning the ducks after an oil slick, so
presumably the same feathers can be restored -- though it takes more
resources than the duck has)
ronald.w.doerfler
Excuse me if someone mentioned this already, as I just picked up this
thread. There is a Perry Mason novel, which I believe is called
"The Case of the Drowning Duck", that was written in the 1930's,
I think. Perry enters an apartment where a murder took place,
and a duck is drowned in the bathtub (as I recall!). Anyway, the
reason is finally given as detergent, a brand new item at the time,
and I have no recollection of its relevance (though it had such)
to the murder case.
Ron Doerfler