RE: Vietnam War CIB to Bronze Star

[Otis Willie PIO The American War Library]

RE: Vietnam War CIB to Bronze Star
RE: Operation RetroActive Recognition site updated...
Reply-To: vietnam-the...@yahoogroups.com

Your belief that the WW2 edict awarding the Bronze Star to CIB recipients should be extended to Vietnam CIB recipients is grossly flawed, and will never happen.

You need to first understand that infantryman service during WW2 was completely different than in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq for the very simply reason that the Infantry in WW2 bore the heaviest weight of combat (excluding, of course the Army
Air Corps which suffered more casualties than the infantry).

Combat was different in Korea and very much different in Vietnam where in both wars the infantry did not -- repeat not -- suffer the greatest weight in combat. In fact, the number of names on the Vietnam Wall contain MORE non-infantry
personnel than infantry. Also, because so very many non-infantrymen (such as MPs) were engaging enemy forces (and being killed) in Vietnam the CIB regulations were waived in 1965 to permit any Army MOS to be authorized the CIB. (More
non-infantry MOS's received the CIB in Vietnam than infantry MOS's).

It is a conceited myth by some infantrymen of Vietnam who believe they were the hardest workers and the most who died during that 20 year war. Untrue, and the direct evidence is on the Vietnam War Memorial.

In fact, it is high time that the Vietnam War infantry step down from its self-created pedestal. It is because of Infantry arrogance -- that although succeeded in screaming so loud it got the "Three Soldier Statue" erected near the Vietnam
War Memorial (no other MOS has a statue), it was and remains infantry arrogance that has caused so many non-infantrymen to avoid joining Vietnam War associations. It was the arrogant slander by Vietnam War infantrymen that created the term
"REMF".

A house divided cannot stand... a group of people who slanderously malign their own brothers who served in the same war will never come together.

In 1997 the Dept of Defense held a forum for the sole purpose of debating the CIB-BS issue for Vietnam. I was among the panelists. That panel unanimously decided -- permanently decided -- not to extend the WW2 edict to Vietnam, for the
reasons I state above.

The CIB was created during WW2 as a morale badge, not a performance award. The Bronze Star is a performance award. Infantrymen of WW2 deserved a morale badge and they deserved a performance award. They carried the war on the ground all on
their own... and they won the war. Infantrymen in Vietnam did neither.

Those are the straightforward facts.

P.S. I do agree with you that the Operation RetroActive Recognition project is a very excellent idea that has been a long time coming. I sincerely hope that enough lazy veterans get off their butts and get behind passage of this bill by
urging their Representatives in the House and Senate to push for it. However, it must be noted that the key provision in this bill is that veterans must purchase any retroactive hardware (medals or badges) themselves. This provision is key
and important because it has been the expense and cost of making the govt and military provide hardware that has kept many awards from being made retroactive when they were first created.

The biggest opponents to this bill will be the cheap twit veterans who will demand that the taxpayer pay for their medals and badges. Distributing free (retro) medals and badges will be totally impossible when we are talking about hundreds
of thousands, if not millions of veterans who will become eligible under the retroactive bill. So if you know any wacky, cheapskate vets, tell them to please not interfere.

REFERENCE:
Operation RetroActive Recognition
http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/retroactive

-- Cavvie

--- In vietnam-the...@yahoogroups.com, "alexander25a" <alexander26a@...
> wrote:

I believe that this bill is a commendable and just effort to reward the military sacrifices of our servicemen in an equitable and just manner.

> I support legislation that would automatically award Vietnam Veterans who have the CIB the Bronze Star as was the case for WW II veterans who were awarded the Bronze Star Medal.
> I had an ancestor who was a Captain in the North Carolina militia during the American Revolution, Captain Robert Paine. He commanded a company of patriots at the Battle of Kings Mountain which was a victory for the American patriots. Of course,I believe that he deserves to be awarded the CIB for his military service.
> I am a Combat veteran of the Vietnam war who was awarded the CIB.
> I was mistakenly, without any fraud on my part, awarded the Bronze Star Medal based upon my CIB.
> My Bronze Star Medal award was, to my great embarrassment, withdrawn after it was determined that the award was made by mistake. However, I was given two other military decorations which I did not have before this mistake was made.
> WWII veterans who received the CIB are and were automatically awarded the Bronze Star Medal.
> My father was awarded the Bronze Star Medal and the CIB based upon his military service during WW II. His Bronze Star medal award was awarded independently of his CIB.
> I believe that the distinction in the awarding of the Bronze Star Medal between WW II veterans and wars of previous and subsequent wars is fundamentally unfair, unjust, and reflective of the discrimination that returning Vietnam Veterans faced upon their return from Vietnam.
> I support legislation that would automatically award Vietnam Veterans who have the CIB the Bronze Star.

-- Otis Willie (Ret.)
Military News and Information Editor (http://www.13105320634.com)
The American War Library, Est. 1988 (http://www.amervets.com)
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Gardena CA 90247
1-310-532-0634

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[themain...@gmail.com]

I am so tired of hearing what this Vietnam Vet said that now some wish to brand all who served in Vietnam as Liars. Here's a fact. When you are shot at and watch your friends die during a firefight you know, you are in a war. Your MOS means nothing as all members of the Army have to revert to being infantrymen when bad times happen. Little late but members of the 101 band had to go up on the line at the Battle of the Bulge. Pretty hard to find one to ask at this late date.

Here is one thing I do know is right. The Greatest Generation turned it back on Korean and Vietnam Vets. Perhaps there were exceptions but the VFW, American Legion and similar groups as far as Vietnam Vets go told us they won their war. As many raised like me, post-WWII was raised to be polite and knew to just walked away before words or deeds could find some people hurt. It did not help if you had a Father or friends Dad who did not survive WWII and you did not wish to beat them.
If you doubt what I have written research this fellow: Drawing from his military service and a wide range of literary material, Evan Reibsome will address the patriotic practice, which involves a civilian approaching a military service member and saying the phrase “thank you for your service.” He will examine this favorite expression, and discuss if it actually harms our men and women in uniform and inadvertently contributes to a state of perpetual warfare in the 21st century.
I sat there in disbelief as the central part of his thesis for his Ph.D. is Vietnam Vets all lie. If you wish to learn more about his future college educator, I suggest you contact Lehigh University in Bethlehem, PA to read his flawed research.