Women in the military Size ?
Mark Flacy
.@. writes:
>
> On 23 Dec 1996 16:41:24 -0600, Mark Flacy <fl...@nortel.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >So...
> >
> >How about female fighter pilots?
> >
> >--
>
> With a few exceptions, as is the case with most any activity, women have been
> unable to withstand the physiological extremes posed by the operating envelopes
> of modern supersonic aircraft..."G-Loads" for instance.
<Shrug>
I remember reading that the optimal fighter pilot would be a short slightly
overweight male. Short male == aggressive. Slightly overweight == high
blood pressure == can take more Gs.
Dunno. I wasn't a zoomie. But I would think that the G forces would be
the only physiological extreme in supersonic aircraft that couldn't be
fixed by technology.
--
\ ----------------------------------------------------------------------
\ Mark A. Flacy | fl...@nortel.com | ESN 445-8347
\ "There's one in every crowd | (214) 685-8347 | Department H231
\ and it's usually me." | |
\ ----------------------------------------------------------------------
\ Someday I may speak for Northern Telecom (Nortel).
\ Someday pigs may howl at a full moon.
\ Expect the latter to occur first.
\ ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Horvath
On 02 Jan 1997 10:42:40 -0600, Mark Flacy <fl...@nortel.com>
scribbled:
>.@. writes:
>
>>
>> On 23 Dec 1996 16:41:24 -0600, Mark Flacy <fl...@nortel.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >So...
>> >
>> >How about female fighter pilots?
>> >
>> >--
>>
>> With a few exceptions, as is the case with most any activity, women have been
>> unable to withstand the physiological extremes posed by the operating envelopes
>> of modern supersonic aircraft..."G-Loads" for instance.
>
><Shrug>
>
>I remember reading that the optimal fighter pilot would be a short slightly
>overweight male. Short male == aggressive. Slightly overweight == high
>blood pressure == can take more Gs.
>
>Dunno. I wasn't a zoomie. But I would think that the G forces would be
>the only physiological extreme in supersonic aircraft that couldn't be
>fixed by technology.
>
I still say that since they can't use the urination hose, they should
be excluded.
Horvath
I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
Frank Vaughan / Spectre Gunner
It was a dark and stormy night in when Hor...@norden1.com
(Horvath) uttered these fateful words:
> >
>
> I still say that since they can't use the urination hose, they should
> be excluded.
>
>
> Horvath
>
> I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
They CAN use the hose, the "interface hardware" is just slightly
different!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frank Vaughan "Spectre Gunner" bag...@ix.netcom.com
Vietnam Veteran -- AC-130E Spectre Gunships
16th Special Operations Squadron (USAF)
"We were winning when I left."
Visit my Spectre Gunship Tribute page at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8758/index.html
Horvath
On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 01:17:01 GMT,
baguio_remove...@ix.netcom.com (Frank Vaughan / Spectre
Gunner) scribbled:
>It was a dark and stormy night in when Hor...@norden1.com
>(Horvath) uttered these fateful words:
>
>
>> >
>>
>> I still say that since they can't use the urination hose, they should
>> be excluded.
>>
>
>
>
>They CAN use the hose, the "interface hardware" is just slightly
>different!
>
>
"Slightly different" Please explain. I've never seen a woman piss
into a hose.
Glenn Dowdy
Horvath wrote:
>
> On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 01:17:01 GMT,
> baguio_remove...@ix.netcom.com (Frank Vaughan / Spectre
> Gunner) scribbled:
>
> >It was a dark and stormy night in when Hor...@norden1.com
> >(Horvath) uttered these fateful words:
> >
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> I still say that since they can't use the urination hose, they should
> >> be excluded.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >They CAN use the hose, the "interface hardware" is just slightly
> >different!
> >
> >
>
> "Slightly different" Please explain. I've never seen a woman piss
> into a hose.
>
Hope this helps.
Glenn Dowdy
Eugene Griessel
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>I still say that since they can't use the urination hose, they should
>be excluded.
In the first place male fighter pilots avoid using it unless
absolutely necessary and in the second place your use of the word
"can't" implies an absolute that is simply not true. I know a lady
truck driver who urinates into a beer bottle while driving - mainly
because she hates squatting to pee in the bush and because she gets
paid a bonus for delivery times on long-haul trips and stopping to
urinate chops a good few minutes off a trip. So if she can manage to
pee into a standard beer bottle I see no reason why a urine tube
cannot be used in exactly the same way. All those I am familiar with
were a damn sight bigger in diameter than a beer bottle! A slight
modification of the standard urine tube to be more funnel shaped
should make it even easier.
The way you talk seems to imply that fighter jocks spend all their
lives pissing while in the cockpit. Even among male jocks I have
known of a few occasions when they simply urinated in the G suit as
it was too much agony to extract themselves from it - or conditions
did not make for a nice smooth and level ride while catching a slash -
like when you are desperately trying to avoid half a dozen baddies
hell-bent on planting an AAM in your tailpipe.
My 5c worth.
Eugene L Griessel Dynagen E-Mail Systems Administrator
eug...@dynagen.co.za Voice: (021) -7891252
webm...@dynagen.co.za PGP Public Keys on request or at
http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html.
Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.
Horvath
On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 12:54:12 GMT, eug...@dynagen.co.za (Eugene
Griessel) scribbled:
>Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>
>
>
>>I still say that since they can't use the urination hose, they should
>>be excluded.
>
>In the first place male fighter pilots avoid using it unless
>absolutely necessary and in the second place your use of the word
>"can't" implies an absolute that is simply not true. I know a lady
>truck driver who urinates into a beer bottle while driving - mainly
>because she hates squatting to pee in the bush and because she gets
>paid a bonus for delivery times on long-haul trips and stopping to
>urinate chops a good few minutes off a trip. So if she can manage to
>pee into a standard beer bottle I see no reason why a urine tube
>cannot be used in exactly the same way. All those I am familiar with
>were a damn sight bigger in diameter than a beer bottle! A slight
>modification of the standard urine tube to be more funnel shaped
>should make it even easier.
So just because one woman can piss in a beer bottle while driving all
women can? Silly reasoning. Driving a truck is nothing like flying a
jet. Seems to me it would be easier to use a bed pan than a beer
bottle. I think you or her made up the story.
Mark Flacy
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) writes:
[snip]
>
> So just because one woman can piss in a beer bottle while driving all
> women can? Silly reasoning. Driving a truck is nothing like flying a
> jet. Seems to me it would be easier to use a bed pan than a beer
> bottle. I think you or her made up the story.
>
>
Great leaping aardvarks, the entire problem of whether or not a woman can
piss down a tube is the stupidest reason that I've heard to exclude 'em
from being fighter jocks.
Get rid of the stupid tubes and let 'em all wear Depends. It's not like
they can't take a shower back on base when the mission's over.
How about a *real* reason?
> Horvath
>
> I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
--
Eugene Griessel
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>So just because one woman can piss in a beer bottle while driving all
>women can? Silly reasoning. Driving a truck is nothing like flying a
>jet. Seems to me it would be easier to use a bed pan than a beer
>bottle. I think you or her made up the story.
No Mr Horvath - you made a flat statement that no women could. And
driving a 40 tonne Mac is a damn sight more difficult than sitting
behind a pole in a cockpit while straight and level. I have done both
- not flown, but ridden in the backseat. And I did *not* make up the
story, I happened to be sitting in the seat next to her when she did
it while bowling along at 100 km/h.
I, for chauvinistic reasons among other, support your contentions in
the main. Perhaps because I come from another era when men were
chivalrous towards the opposite sex and uncomfortable with the thought
that women may be taken POW or be abused by the enemy on capture.
What I find childish in the extreme is that you should use this
ludicrous and untenable argument about urination to prove that
females cannot be fighter pilots. I, today, as a very rough sampling
asked a number of women whether they would be able to urinate, sitting
down, into a milk bottle - more the diameter of the standard urine
tube. Only 1 said she thought she would not be able to do it. 4 said
they would be uncomfortable, likely wet themselves a bit but manage
and another 3 said they would achieve it without difficulty.
Your argument about urination seems to be the final desperate one of a
man who has run out of any reasonable and logical point to put in
defence of his position but is afraid to admit that he has lost the
argument.
As to my last thoughts on lady fighter pilots - if the women want to
go out there and get killed and maimed and suffer the deprivations
that the calling carries with it - I don't approve but that is my
personal view on the matter. I am hardly in a position to impose my
will on them.
Eugene L Griessel Dynagen E-Mail Systems Administrator
eug...@dynagen.co.za Voice: (021) -7891252
PGP Keys on request or at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
Willoughby's Law:
When you try to prove to the repairman
that the machine won't work, it will.
Horvath
On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 18:03:10 GMT, eug...@dynagen.co.za (Eugene
Griessel) scribbled:
>Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>
>
>>So just because one woman can piss in a beer bottle while driving all
>>women can? Silly reasoning. Driving a truck is nothing like flying a
>>jet. Seems to me it would be easier to use a bed pan than a beer
>>bottle. I think you or her made up the story.
>
>No Mr Horvath - you made a flat statement that no women could. And
>driving a 40 tonne Mac is a damn sight more difficult than sitting
>behind a pole in a cockpit while straight and level. I have done both
>- not flown, but ridden in the backseat. And I did *not* make up the
>story, I happened to be sitting in the seat next to her when she did
>it while bowling along at 100 km/h.
>
My statement was that they couldn't piss in a tube while flying along.
>What I find childish in the extreme is that you should use this
>ludicrous and untenable argument about urination to prove that
>females cannot be fighter pilots. I, today, as a very rough sampling
>asked a number of women whether they would be able to urinate, sitting
>down, into a milk bottle - more the diameter of the standard urine
>tube. Only 1 said she thought she would not be able to do it. 4 said
>they would be uncomfortable, likely wet themselves a bit but manage
>and another 3 said they would achieve it without difficulty.
>
Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
get a different answer.
>Your argument about urination seems to be the final desperate one of a
>man who has run out of any reasonable and logical point to put in
>defence of his position but is afraid to admit that he has lost the
>argument.
>
Not so. I'm just pointing out an obvious reason.
>As to my last thoughts on lady fighter pilots - if the women want to
>go out there and get killed and maimed and suffer the deprivations
>that the calling carries with it - I don't approve but that is my
>personal view on the matter. I am hardly in a position to impose my
>will on them.
>
I agree. However I do feel that they should do the SAME tasks as the
men. Even to using the urination device.
Horvath
On 05 Jan 1997 20:36:40 -0600, Mark Flacy <fl...@nortel.com>
scribbled:
>Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) writes:
>
>[snip]
>>
>> So just because one woman can piss in a beer bottle while driving all
>> women can? Silly reasoning. Driving a truck is nothing like flying a
>> jet. Seems to me it would be easier to use a bed pan than a beer
>> bottle. I think you or her made up the story.
>>
>>
>
>
>Great leaping aardvarks, the entire problem of whether or not a woman can
>piss down a tube is the stupidest reason that I've heard to exclude 'em
>from being fighter jocks.
>
>Get rid of the stupid tubes and let 'em all wear Depends. It's not like
>they can't take a shower back on base when the mission's over.
>
I would think that properly using and wearing an essential piece of
equipment like the flight suit would be mandatory for a pilot.
I'm not a pilot, but I understand that there is a post-op briefing
after the missions. Are we to wait for an hour until the female
pilots shower and re-do their hair and makeup?
Mark Flacy
dm...@netcom.com writes:
> OK!
>
> 1) Females are not subject to the draft.
>
> 2) We have more than enough male pilots...there's no need for females to fly in
> combat.
>
> So, now what?
#1 is not a reason. After all, any male can volunteer to attempt to become
a fighter pilot.
#2 is perhaps a little closer to a valid reason. Of course each qualified
female fighter pilot releases a male to become a 11 bullet-stopper. As a
former DAT, I always liked having infantry around for the enemy to shoot
at... (Oops. Shoulda got into the NOMEX *first*.)
Mark Flacy
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) writes:
>
> On 05 Jan 1997 20:36:40 -0600, Mark Flacy <fl...@nortel.com>
> scribbled:
>
> >Great leaping aardvarks, the entire problem of whether or not a woman can
> >piss down a tube is the stupidest reason that I've heard to exclude 'em
> >from being fighter jocks.
> >
> >Get rid of the stupid tubes and let 'em all wear Depends. It's not like
> >they can't take a shower back on base when the mission's over.
> >
>
> I would think that properly using and wearing an essential piece of
> equipment like the flight suit would be mandatory for a pilot.
Flight suit <> piss tube.
>
> I'm not a pilot, but I understand that there is a post-op briefing
> after the missions. Are we to wait for an hour until the female
> pilots shower and re-do their hair and makeup?
Chasing gnats, I see.
BTW, I haven't seen many female soldiers wear makeup while in the field.
Too big of a PIA and you normally can't keep clean enough without adding
makeup to the problem. They normally don't do elaborate crap with their
hair for the similar reasons.
" . . . and let 'em all wear Depends. . . ." includes the male
pilots. Eliminate the urine tube from the aircraft. Let *all* pilots stew
in their juices until after the post-op briefing or give all of them time
to take a shower. Take your pick.
>
>
>
> Horvath
>
> I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
--
Glenn Dowdy
> >
> >[snip]
> >>
> >> So just because one woman can piss in a beer bottle while driving all
> >> women can? Silly reasoning. Driving a truck is nothing like flying a
> >> jet. Seems to me it would be easier to use a bed pan than a beer
> >> bottle. I think you or her made up the story.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >piss down a tube is the stupidest reason that I've heard to exclude 'em
> >from being fighter jocks.
> >
> >Get rid of the stupid tubes and let 'em all wear Depends. It's not like
> >they can't take a shower back on base when the mission's over.
> >
>
> I would think that properly using and wearing an essential piece of
> equipment like the flight suit would be mandatory for a pilot.
>
> after the missions. Are we to wait for an hour until the female
> pilots shower and re-do their hair and makeup?
How do you expect anyone to take your arguments seriously with a comment
like your last sentence? Doesn't the US have female fight pilots now? I
assure you that they wear the same gear as male fighter pilots, and
perform the same duties.
Here's a question - how will it hurt *you* if we have female fighter
pilots, or female tankers, or female aviation mates? Just why are you so
insistent that women don't belong in the military?
Glenn Dowdy
Horvath
On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 08:40:48 -0800, Glenn Dowdy <glenn...@hp.com>
scribbled:
>> I would think that properly using and wearing an essential piece of
>> equipment like the flight suit would be mandatory for a pilot.
>>
>> I'm not a pilot, but I understand that there is a post-op briefing
>> after the missions. Are we to wait for an hour until the female
>> pilots shower and re-do their hair and makeup?
>
>How do you expect anyone to take your arguments seriously with a comment
>like your last sentence? Doesn't the US have female fight pilots now? I
>assure you that they wear the same gear as male fighter pilots, and
>perform the same duties.
>
>Here's a question - how will it hurt *you* if we have female fighter
>pilots, or female tankers, or female aviation mates? Just why are you so
>insistent that women don't belong in the military?
>
I'm a taxpayer and I'm interested that my tax money is being used
wisely by the DOD.
Horvath
On 10 Jan 1997 04:01:07 GMT, "Blue Max" <max...@erols.com> scribbled:
>Horvath wrote:
>
>>
>> When congress gets done writing the standards, and the contractors get
>> done bidding, Depends will be sold to the military for $100 each.
>>
> It's worse than that. I recall reading/hearing several years ago that
>whenever
>a female pilot 'suited up,' she had to put on some kind of diaper-like
>garment.
>They cost about $600 each, and were not reusable.
> I'm sorry I can't give the source, but it made a big-enough impression
>on me at the
>time that I'm sure I heard it. If someone can confirm or refute this, feel
>free to post.
>
>
Whoa! Even I don't believe this! How could our tax money be used for
such shit?
Horvath
This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe.
Horvath
On 08 Jan 1997 05:47:38 -0600, Mark Flacy <fl...@nortel.com>
scribbled:
>>
>> I would think that properly using and wearing an essential piece of
>> equipment like the flight suit would be mandatory for a pilot.
>
>Flight suit <> piss tube.
>
>
Still, a flight suit is an essential piece of equipment. It doubles
as a survival suit when the pilot has to eject.
I would think that if a man were unable to use the piss tube he would
NOT be allowed to continue flight training.
Here's a good pickup line in a bar:
"I applied for flight school, but I was turned down. It seems
that my penis is too big for the flight suit."
>>
>> I'm not a pilot, but I understand that there is a post-op briefing
>> after the missions. Are we to wait for an hour until the female
>> pilots shower and re-do their hair and makeup?
>
>Chasing gnats, I see.
>
>BTW, I haven't seen many female soldiers wear makeup while in the field.
>Too big of a PIA and you normally can't keep clean enough without adding
>makeup to the problem. They normally don't do elaborate crap with their
>hair for the similar reasons.
>
>
I've seen them were makeup and perfume. At Ft. Lewis, one woman was
stung multiple times by bees and had to be hospitalized because of her
perfume.
>" . . . and let 'em all wear Depends. . . ." includes the male
>pilots. Eliminate the urine tube from the aircraft. Let *all* pilots stew
>in their juices until after the post-op briefing or give all of them time
>to take a shower. Take your pick.
>
When congress gets done writing the standards, and the contractors get
done bidding, Depends will be sold to the military for $100 each.
No, I think all pilots should use the tube.
Blue Max
Horvath wrote:
>
> When congress gets done writing the standards, and the contractors get
> done bidding, Depends will be sold to the military for $100 each.
>
It's worse than that. I recall reading/hearing several years ago that
whenever
a female pilot 'suited up,' she had to put on some kind of diaper-like
garment.
They cost about $600 each, and were not reusable.
I'm sorry I can't give the source, but it made a big-enough impression
on me at the
time that I'm sure I heard it. If someone can confirm or refute this, feel
free to post.
Max
--
"Reform is the antidote for Revolution." - Teddy Roosevelt
Non-solicited e-mail to this address is not read
Horvath
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:12:58 GMT, dww...@ix.netcom.com scribbled:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:48:12 GMT, Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've seen them were makeup and perfume. At Ft. Lewis, one woman was
>>stung multiple times by bees and had to be hospitalized because of her
>>perfume.
>
>
>
>Women can't wear that makeup in a combat aircraft...it'll make their face catch
>on fire!
>
Heh Heh that's something worth thinking about! :)
Eugene Griessel
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
<snip>
>Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
>then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
>get a different answer.
Jeana Yeager, as far as I know, used a standard relief tube while
co-piloting the Voyager on her round-the-world trip. If she could do
it, why not all?
source: Jeana Yeager and Dick Rutan "Voyager - Flying into the record
books".
Eugene L Griessel Dynagen E-Mail Systems Administrator
eug...@dynagen.co.za Voice: (021) -7891252
PGP Keys on request or at http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
Life is like a sewer - you get out of it what you put into it.
Horvath
On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:04:18 GMT, eug...@dynagen.co.za (Eugene
Griessel) scribbled:
>Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
>>then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
>>get a different answer.
>
>Jeana Yeager, as far as I know, used a standard relief tube while
>co-piloting the Voyager on her round-the-world trip. If she could do
>it, why not all?
>
She wasn't in a fighter.
She wasn't strapped in a chair for the whole trip.
She wasn't even wearing a flight suit.
Eugene Griessel
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>My statement was that they couldn't piss in a tube while flying along.
>Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
>then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
>get a different answer.
>I agree. However I do feel that they should do the SAME tasks as the
>men. Even to using the urination device.
> Horvath
> I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
Ok Mr Horvath - the following articles are from rec.aviation.gliding.
I eagerly await your comments now.
To Pee Or Not To Pee - No Question About It
from rec.aviation.soaring - January 1996
From Iris M/Karl H Striedieck: ixm...@psu.edu
It's the finish of day 7 at the 1977 15 meter nationals at Hobbs as
Billy
Hill pulls his Zuni into a victory pullup after 5 1/2 hours on course.
More
finishers straggle in and eventually a radio call from 7N announces he
will
land about one mile short. Perhaps it was fatigue, or maybe
dehydration was
the cause, but the PIK cartwheels and the pilot is injured. When
doctors
begin treatment of what should have been a relatively straightforward
case
they discover a ruptured bladder which turns a routine situation into
something with more grave consequences.
Most of us can relate stories of flights whose most memorable aspects
had
something to do with either not drinking enough water or not being
able to
get rid of the contents of a bladder that seemed ready to explode. Add
to
those the tales of spewing baggies, cockpit floods and bags wrapped
around
leading edges and it is clear that more information is needed by
glider
pilots in dealing with what can be anything but a laughing matter.
This
article presents two systems by which men and women can take care of
nature's call and thereby lessen the chances of dehydration,
discomfort and
the danger of a ruptured bladder in an otherwise `routine' crash.
Perhaps it is advancing age, maybe just the quest for more efficiency,
but
with time men's relief systems seem to evolve from just `holding it',
to
bag jettison systems, to various plumbing schemes that empty
overboard.
Given the ease of use, low incidence of leaks and spills, lower
distraction
factor inflight, and absence of corrosive damage to landing gear and
rudder
parts, the male external catheter (mec) plumbed to a landing gear door
seems to be the best system for the boys.
The tubing recommended is 1/4" id polyethylene. This is a hard-
walled,
rather rigid tubing that can nevertheless be routed from the cockpit,
under
the seat pan through bulkheads and mounted on the lower rear corner of
a
gear door. It will take the twisting required to extend the landing
gear
but won't collapse if it is squeezed under the seat pan. It is
available at
hardware stores.
It is a little simpler to vent the system out the belly under the seat
pan
but the result is a lower fuselage washed in corrosive urine that gets
on
the metal parts of landing gears and rudder hinges. Take the time to
route
the tubing to the gear door so that with the gear extended during use
the
entire spray is directed away from the ship. Tests with dyed water
show
this to be the case.
Another important hydrological feature is the incorporation of a T
fitting
between the mec and rigid tubing. A piece of surgical tubing (normally
clamped off) allows the pilot to blow the plumbing dry following use
and
thereby avoid freezing and trailer stains. Catheters are available at
medical supply outlets or any pharmacy by special order. The Mentor
Freedom
Cath sells for about $1.40 each and is available in three sizes. These
devices are much like a condom with a flexible tube that connects to
your
ship's plumbing. The adhesive used prevents leaks even under the
pressure
of purging blow outs, however it is recommended that a small towel be
used
when disconnecting to catch any stray fluid.
Women are confronted with a different set of challenges of course, but
experience with use of feminine bladder control guards shows these to
be
quite satisfactory, and definitely superior to the alternatives of
deliberate pre-flight dehydration, curtailed flights, or the hazards
and
discomfort that come to pilots flying with bulging bladders. The good
news
is that no modifications are necessary to the glider.
One of the manufacturers of the magic devices that solve the problem
is
Johnson and Johnson who offer their Serenity feminine bladder control
pads
(Super absorbency). The secret of these things is a chemical gelling
system
contained within the fluted cotton liner that can absorb and retain
liquid
as fast as it can be poured on. Even when held near vertical so that
runoff
would logically result, none occurs. The surface away from the user is
water proof so handling is manageable.
In practice, at least for new users, there is some distraction from
the
demands of flying the ship so a crowded thermal is not a good place to
try
this. It is necessary to loosen the restraint system and clothes
should be
of a sort that will allow access. Consider a trial run on the ground
and
make provisions for a container to hold the used pads. It is most
important
that the pads not be squashed by weight or clothing while being used
as
this will prevent rapid absorption.
Although these pads will hold a full bladders worth, it is prudent to
use
them more often with less volume until experience shows the best
logistics.
If you've been frustrated or lazy in dealing with the call of nature
while
soaring, good solutions are available. Don't tolerate the
inconvenience any
longer. It could be a lot worse than inconvenient.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Al Holst: cd...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
Readers of Sailplane & Gliding will be familiar with the following bit
of
intelligence .. see S & G June/July 1994 .. p.146
Yes, ladies, it's what you've been hoping for... a high-technology
waste
disposal system .. The innovative part is a 12v electric vacuum pump
driven
by the glider batteries which sucks out the urine into a plastic
container.
The working end has an appropriately shaped receiver which has proved
to be
leak-free in the year the propotype has been tested.
Roland Schmitt from Cologne produced it for his wife, but it has been
such
a success that production has started. You can order one from Roland
Schmitt, Diepeschrather Str 6a, D-561069 Kolm, tel 01049 221 686782
Happy landings!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Bruce Hoult: Br...@hoult.actrix.gen.nz
brum...@interaccess.com (broomstick) writes:
> I have seen advertised, and pictures of, a device known as a "feminine urinary
> flow director". This is a hand-held molded plastic uh... plastic thing that
> has a wide scoop shape on one end and a spount on the other. Supposedly a
> women is not even required to drop her drawers to use it. Just unzip the fly,
> insert scoop end, aim spout....
There are oval-shaped funnel sort of things used by female triathletes
so
they don't have to get off their bikes to pee. I've seen the one my
brother's wife uses, though I have no idea where you get them. It
wouldn't
hurt to try a bicycle store, though.
Come to think of it: I bought my Camelbak at a bicycle store, so I
guess
sailplane pilots have quite a bit in common with long distance
cycists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Beverley and Noel Matthews: matt...@internode.com.au
I bought mine from a medical supply company, works well, BUT requires
practice to MENTALLY adjust to it's use, like anything which involves
the
'not talked about' areas in human activities.
Beverley
Perhaps we will be entertained to more irrational reasons why women
cannot be fighter pilots?
Eugene Griessel
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>My statement was that they couldn't piss in a tube while flying along.
>Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
>then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
>get a different answer.
>I agree. However I do feel that they should do the SAME tasks as the
>men. Even to using the urination device.
> Horvath
> I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
Ok Mr Horvath - the following articles are from rec.aviation.soaring.
I eagerly await your comments.
Eugene Griessel
Eugene Griessel
Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>My statement was that they couldn't piss in a tube while flying along.
>Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
>then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
>get a different answer.
>I agree. However I do feel that they should do the SAME tasks as the
>men. Even to using the urination device.
> Horvath
> I was surfing the net when Yahoo was only a hillbilly cheer.
Ok Mr Horvath - the following articles are from rec.aviation.gliding.
I eagerly await your comments now.
To Pee Or Not To Pee - No Question About It
Eugene Griessel
Debra Milner
On Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:28:01 GMT, Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>I'm not a pilot, but I understand that there is a post-op briefing
>after the missions. Are we to wait for an hour until the female
>pilots shower and re-do their hair and makeup?
This statement, more than anything else, displays your ignorance of
the facts of the issue, and are instead tossing quips that are either
a major troll, or are statements based on what the more extreme
feminists would call a "sexist pig" attitude...
De Colores, ***************************************
Deb Milner Those who believe that Jesus is coming
dmi...@southeast.net soon are mistaken.......
HE'S BEEN HERE ALL THE TIME!
**********************************************************************
Debra Milner
>>
>Still, a flight suit is an essential piece of equipment. It doubles
>as a survival suit when the pilot has to eject.
Correct. That and his/her flight vest, which carries much of their
survival gear. Have you ever been through "the dunker"?
It is a water survival course and test, given to prospective air crew
candidates. It involves some very physically demanding efforts in
the water, in full gear. Boots, helmet, flight suit, flight vest
(can't remember the name of the damned thing). The women in the
course must perform and pass the same tasks as the men. There are no
allowances for male/female, everyone passes the same test. If they
can't do it, they don't fly.
>I would think that if a man were unable to use the piss tube he would
>NOT be allowed to continue flight training.
And, if I'm not mistaken, the military has provided an adapter that
allows the woman to use that "piss tube". It really wouldn't take
much to do it.
>done bidding, Depends will be sold to the military for $100 each.
>
>No, I think all pilots should use the tube.
And, in all probability, they do.
Horvath
On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:16:33 GMT, eug...@dynagen.co.za (Eugene
Griessel) scribbled:
>Hor...@norden1.com (Horvath) wrote:
>
>
>>My statement was that they couldn't piss in a tube while flying along.
>
>
>>Ask them if they could unzip a flight suit, pull it down far enough,
>>then urinate into the bottle, while flying along. I think you will
>>get a different answer.
>
>
>>I agree. However I do feel that they should do the SAME tasks as the
>>men. Even to using the urination device.
>
>
>Ok Mr Horvath - the following articles are from rec.aviation.gliding.
>I eagerly await your comments now.
>
> To Pee Or Not To Pee - No Question About It
>
> from rec.aviation.soaring - January 1996
>
[Whole lot of crap deleted] (Pun intended)
What's your point here? Female fighter pilots wear a different flight
suit than civilian pilots. Because civilian female pilots can wear
this bladder dosen't mean that military fighter pilots can use them.