Shingles (Herpes zoster)
Busy18
She also unfortunately has a plague of other diagnoses - lupus,
fibromyalgia, chronic asthma (only has one lung), had just stopped chemo
last month (6 mos) for "lupus" (?) she says. Now the shingles have reared
their ugly heads (right side) back, arm, underarm, and traveling like a New
York subway.
Since the symptoms started more than 5 days ago, she was not recommended as
a candidate for the Zovirax (and relations).
She was ordered to increase her steroid (prednisone) dosage per day and
rest....
Anyone have any experience to share regarding immune building when a person
is obviously in such a *delicate* state of immune suppression and duress?
Many thanks,
Simple
Busy18
"Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote in message
news:tvSA5.43154$65.4...@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com...
Ron Hoggan
Hi Simple,
The complex of illnesses that your neighbor has may be pointing in a direction
that is often overlooked. She may be suffering from undiagnosed celiac disease.
If so, treatment may well alleviate some of her other problems.
Please have a look at:
http://www.gluten-free.org/hoggan/
I hope you find this information helpful.
best wishes,
Ron Hoggan
In article <tvSA5.43154$65.4...@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com>, bus...@home.com
says...
>
>My dearest neighbor (of 13 years) just was diagnosed today with H. zoster.
>She also unfortunately has a plague of other diagnoses - lupus,
>fibromyalgia, chronic asthma (only has one lung), had just stopped chemo
>last month (6 mos) for "lupus" (?) she says. Now the shingles have reared
>their ugly heads (right side) back, arm, underarm, and traveling like a New
>York subway.
(snip)
KSheaBrown
damage and knee surgery. I am so used to being active and healthy that I
stressed out and developed shingles. Shingles is thought to be triggered by
stress. I found out that staying far away from sugar and most carbs is
important. It is extemely important to eliminate stress--I finally accepted
that I wasn't going to start running again the next day. Also taking 500mg of
the amino acid lysine on an empty stomach a couple of times a day is very
helpful.
Chemo for lupus!? A dear friend of mine got lupus after a gall bladder
operation many years ago. She reached the point where she was so sick that she
one day lay down to die. Her niece did something so completely cruel that my
friend bounced back with resolution to fight the lupus and gave up on
conventional doctors. She found an MD who applies alternative health. She
takes oregano oil (which is very powerful and must be started with only a
couple of drops) when she gets infections now, does not consume sugar, caffeine
or wheat. Eats organic and runs around like a very healthy, much younger
person.
Your friend has some real challenges. My mother has asthma and my stepmother
has fibromyalgia. Both lupus and fibromyalgia are considered autoimmune
diseases, where the body attacks itself. Her tissues may be harboring
unnatural junk (preservatives, synthetic hormones from chickens, etc.) and a
very clean, natural diet may help. Nice building fresh vegetable juices
usually help everybody get healthier. Sugar, refined carbs and dairy often
deplete the immune system or clog up the system, while many herbs like
echinacea fortify it. However, when the body attacks itself, a cleansing,
fortifying diet probably helps the most.
I do hope she overcomes this frightful mix.
Kathy
fragrant
> Chemo for lupus!? A dear friend of mine got lupus after a gall
bladder
> operation many years ago. She reached the point where she was so
sick that she
> one day lay down to die. Her niece did something so completely
cruel that my
> friend bounced back with resolution to fight the lupus and gave up
on
> conventional doctors. She found an MD who applies alternative
health. She
> takes oregano oil (which is very powerful and must be started with
only a
> couple of drops) when she gets infections now, does not consume
sugar, caffeine
> or wheat. Eats organic and runs around like a very healthy, much
younger
> person.
Careful with this! If the MD in question is Dr Cass then his "oil of
oregano" is not Oregano Essential oil (which is NOT recommended to be
taken neat) but 5% oregano oil in 95% olive oil
Even a "couple of drops" of the 100% oregano oil will burn the mouth
and alementary canal..
See http://av-at.com and ask Butch about oregano oil.
<Snip>
I do hope she overcomes this frightful mix.
>
> Kathy
--
Graham Sorenson Now with an updated books page.
The Guide to Aromatherapy http://www.fragrant.demon.co.uk
Thousands of links to alternative health sites
600 ++ UK Aromatherapy Suppliers and Practitioners listed.
NEW Australia, Rest of the World and USA Suppliers and Practitioners
lists
Catherine Symonds
Six years ago (I was 24), when I was three months pregnant with my 2nd
daughter, I developed shingles, and I'm convinced it was due to extreme
stress. It affected the left side of my face, and I still have a couple of
scars from it near my left eye. At the time, I was operating a small-scale
piggery and gamecock farm by myself, taking care of my bed-ridden father as
well as a my 3-year-old, and dealing with my then-husband who was deep into
yet another illicit-drug binge that resulted in a great deal of
emotional/mental upheaval for and destruction within the family. Being worn
down with worries, a great deal of stress, and physical exhaustion obviously
lowered my resistance immensely and left my system wide open for an "attack"
such as shingles.
My doctor couldn't prescribe the medication commonly used for shingles
(forget the name) because there had been not studies conducted for the use
of this product for pregnant women. The best thing he could do was
prescribe Vicodin, which helped tremendously with the excruciating pain, and
when the blisters started to heal, I had dabbed on Listerine to speed up the
drying process and to help with the intense itching. However, if I (or a
family member) had developed shingles today, I would take not only Lysine,
Vitamin C, and Zinc, but I'd also eat lots of papaya and pineapple for their
anti-inflammatory properties, drink teas of anti-viral herbs such as Lemon
Balm, SJW, Licorice, Astragalus, and topically apply a mixture of vitamin E
and EOs (diluted) of Lemon Balm and Tea Tree to the blisters. But, as it
is, I've already had shingles and have the scars to show for it. ;o)
By the way, when I started to heal from my shingles, my 3-year-old developed
the chicken pox, as I had half-expected she would because the herpes zoster
virus is the same virus as chicken pox.
Catherine
KSheaBrown <kshea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000930143946...@ng-cf1.aol.com...
> I was hit by a van while walking across the street, which resulted in
brain
> damage and knee surgery. I am so used to being active and healthy that I
> stressed out and developed shingles. Shingles is thought to be triggered
by
> stress. I found out that staying far away from sugar and most carbs is
> important. It is extemely important to eliminate stress--I finally
accepted
> that I wasn't going to start running again the next day. Also taking
500mg of
> the amino acid lysine on an empty stomach a couple of times a day is very
> helpful.
>
> Chemo for lupus!? A dear friend of mine got lupus after a gall bladder
> operation many years ago. She reached the point where she was so sick
that she
> one day lay down to die. Her niece did something so completely cruel that
my
> friend bounced back with resolution to fight the lupus and gave up on
> conventional doctors. She found an MD who applies alternative health.
She
> takes oregano oil (which is very powerful and must be started with only a
> couple of drops) when she gets infections now, does not consume sugar,
caffeine
> or wheat. Eats organic and runs around like a very healthy, much younger
> person.
>
> Your friend has some real challenges. My mother has asthma and my
stepmother
> has fibromyalgia. Both lupus and fibromyalgia are considered autoimmune
> diseases, where the body attacks itself. Her tissues may be harboring
> unnatural junk (preservatives, synthetic hormones from chickens, etc.) and
a
> very clean, natural diet may help. Nice building fresh vegetable juices
> usually help everybody get healthier. Sugar, refined carbs and dairy
often
> deplete the immune system or clog up the system, while many herbs like
> echinacea fortify it. However, when the body attacks itself, a cleansing,
> fortifying diet probably helps the most.
>
Busy18
"Ron Hoggan" <hog...@cadvision.com> wrote in message
news:39d56...@news.cadvision.com...
>
> Hi Simple,
> The complex of illnesses that your neighbor has may be pointing in a
direction
> that is often overlooked. She may be suffering from undiagnosed celiac
disease.
> If so, treatment may well alleviate some of her other problems.
>
> Please have a look at:
> http://www.gluten-free.org/hoggan/
>
> I hope you find this information helpful.
> best wishes,
> Ron Hoggan
>
> In article <tvSA5.43154$65.4...@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com>, bus...@home.com
> says...
> >
> >My dearest neighbor (of 13 years) just was diagnosed today with H.
zoster.
> >She also unfortunately has a plague of other diagnoses - lupus,
> >fibromyalgia, chronic asthma (only has one lung), had just stopped chemo
> >last month (6 mos) for "lupus" (?) she says. Now the shingles have
reared
> >their ugly heads (right side) back, arm, underarm, and traveling like a
New
> >York subway.
> (snip)
>
Busy18
"KSheaBrown" <kshea...@aol.com> wrote in\ > I was hit by a van while
walking across the street, which resulted in brain
> damage and knee surgery. I am so used to being active and healthy that I
> stressed out and developed shingles. Shingles is thought to be triggered
by
> stress.
She is under tremendous stressors right now. Has been classified disabled
for the last 3 years due to the asthma and one lung, plus severe allergies
to just about everything. All these other things the lupus diagnosis,
chemo, fibromyalgia, vision problems (she thinks from steroid use), etc.
have popped up one right after another. The poor woman has been given lots
of drugs, especially steroids, for a very very long time.
I found out that staying far away from sugar and most carbs is
> important.
Things she craves.
It is extemely important to eliminate stress--I finally accepted
> that I wasn't going to start running again the next day. Also taking
500mg of
> the amino acid lysine on an empty stomach a couple of times a day is very
> helpful.
Have put this on my shopping list to get for her.
>
> Chemo for lupus!? A dear friend of mine got lupus after a gall bladder
> operation many years ago. She reached the point where she was so sick
that she
> one day lay down to die. Her niece did something so completely cruel that
my
> friend bounced back with resolution to fight the lupus and gave up on
> conventional doctors. She found an MD who applies alternative health.
She
> takes oregano oil (which is very powerful and must be started with only a
> couple of drops) when she gets infections now, does not consume sugar,
caffeine
> or wheat. Eats organic and runs around like a very healthy, much younger
> person.
Lifestyle and diet changes would most definitely help - however, she is on a
limited income (disability) which JUST covers her small mortgage and
utilities, and she does get $22 a month in food stamps however buys a lot of
(what I consider) junk foods and she stretches them for many days (like
hamburger helper type things). Don't blame her having to live on $22 a
month is simply impossible. I bring her some foods as I can, healthy
choices, which she appreciates - but I cannot see how she can *afford*
healthy foods. She was accepting a food donation once a month from a local
church, but it was pretty much the same kind of processed foods. Nothing
fresh.
>
> Your friend has some real challenges. My mother has asthma and my
stepmother
> has fibromyalgia. Both lupus and fibromyalgia are considered autoimmune
> diseases, where the body attacks itself. Her tissues may be harboring
> unnatural junk (preservatives, synthetic hormones from chickens, etc.) and
a
> very clean, natural diet may help. Nice building fresh vegetable juices
> usually help everybody get healthier.
Had started to include her on my every other day juice, which she enjoys.
Sugar, refined carbs and dairy often
> deplete the immune system or clog up the system, while many herbs like
> echinacea fortify it.
Understand. These are all foods she consumes and craves.
However, when the body attacks itself, a cleansing,
> fortifying diet probably helps the most.
I agree - perhaps I can shop a bit more for her and prepare some more foods
too (as she feels so bad sometimes she doesn't even eat all day).
> I do hope she overcomes this frightful mix.
I do too, she is a good neighbor and is becoming someone I really care
about. I have offered her the use of my echinacea and herbs, but she has
been afraid to use them because of the drugs she is taking.
Oh well, I can buy her the l-lysine and some of the other supplements I saw
mentioned here. They make sense and sound good and will do that. However,
I think there are deeper things here. Since I am not a trained healer, I
can only do the things I feel may be helpful and not hurtful to her overall
well-ness or lack of. It is very frustrating and sad as this person is so
close to my age and should be out and about doing things in her early middle
age!
Thanks - I printed your post to take over to her.
Simple
Busy18
"Catherine Symonds" <WCSY...@prodigy.net>
> Six years ago (I was 24), when I was three months pregnant with my 2nd
> daughter, I developed shingles, and I'm convinced it was due to extreme
> stress. It affected the left side of my face, and I still have a couple
of
> scars from it near my left eye. At the time, I was operating a
small-scale
> piggery and gamecock farm by myself, taking care of my bed-ridden father
as
> well as a my 3-year-old, and dealing with my then-husband who was deep
into
> yet another illicit-drug binge that resulted in a great deal of
> emotional/mental upheaval for and destruction within the family. Being
worn
> down with worries, a great deal of stress, and physical exhaustion
obviously
> lowered my resistance immensely and left my system wide open for an
"attack"
> such as shingles.
Wow! You certainly had your share of stress, too! As mentioned in another
post, she is under tremendous stress almost to the point where I worry about
her having suicidal thoughts! So many things are "caving in" on her...
> My doctor couldn't prescribe the medication commonly used for shingles
> (forget the name) because there had been not studies conducted for the use
> of this product for pregnant women. The best thing he could do was
> prescribe Vicodin, which helped tremendously with the excruciating pain,
They wouldn't give it to her because she was not within the window of 24-72
hours of symptoms.
She did get a scrip for some kind of pain drug - which she takes because of
the kind of pain this is giving her, but also it blurs her mind and she says
she can't function real well. But it's better than the pain she says.
and
> when the blisters started to heal, I had dabbed on Listerine to speed up
the
> drying process and to help with the intense itching.
Will tell her that.
However, if I (or a
> family member) had developed shingles today, I would take not only Lysine,
> Vitamin C, and Zinc,
Have a shopping list started of some supplements from your suggestions and
others. Also found B-12 and B-complex would most likely be helpful.
but I'd also eat lots of papaya and pineapple for their
> anti-inflammatory properties, drink teas of anti-viral herbs such as Lemon
> Balm, SJW, Licorice, Astragalus, and topically apply a mixture of vitamin
E
> and EOs (diluted) of Lemon Balm and Tea Tree to the blisters.
Will print this out for her. I have lemon balm herb, SJW capsules, Licorice
root and Astragalus root for teas.
Have some tea tree oil to share too and vitamin E topically.
But, as it
> is, I've already had shingles and have the scars to show for it. ;o)
>
> By the way, when I started to heal from my shingles, my 3-year-old
developed
> the chicken pox, as I had half-expected she would because the herpes
zoster
> virus is the same virus as chicken pox.
She did encourage me to keep a distance as her physican told her that it was
a viral outbreak and she was contagious to others (especially children,
elders and anyone with immune suppression).
Thanks for the suggestions,
Simple
Busy18
"fragrant" <frag...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message > <Snip>
> > Chemo for lupus!? A dear friend of mine got lupus after a gall
> bladder
> > operation many years ago. She reached the point where she was so
> sick that she
> > one day lay down to die. Her niece did something so completely
> cruel that my
> > friend bounced back with resolution to fight the lupus and gave up
> on
> > conventional doctors.
My neighbor has almost given up conventional doctors, too.
She found an MD who applies alternative
> health. She
> > takes oregano oil (which is very powerful and must be started with
> only a
> > couple of drops) when she gets infections now, does not consume
> sugar, caffeine
> > or wheat.
My neighbor does consume these, as I mentioned in other posts.
Eats organic and runs around like a very healthy, much
> younger
> > person.
She is *young* and I feel she *should* be at least healthier than she is
now. I can provide her with some healthy choices for foods, but I fret not
enough to make a big difference.
> Careful with this! If the MD in question is Dr Cass then his "oil of
> oregano" is not Oregano Essential oil (which is NOT recommended to be
> taken neat) but 5% oregano oil in 95% olive oil
>
> Even a "couple of drops" of the 100% oregano oil will burn the mouth
> and alementary canal..
I'll print this one out and let her decide. This is not something I think I
would offer to buy for her as it sounds a little risky without someone to
monitor her (not me) reaction to it.
Thank you,
Simple
Busy18
Anyone had any success using cayenne pain preparations on the shingles
lesions? If so did you make it or buy it? What's the best kind. Someone
just told me they had "a friend of a friend that told her that was something
they used and it helped". Since I can't talk to this person, maybe some of
you out there on the NG have some experience or knowledge with this.
If I have a confirmation on this I can get it or make it for her (if you
have a recipe to share).
Thanks
Simple
Wakefield
Do you remember the old book- 'Diet for a Small Planet'? (Francis Moore
Lappe, 1969!!) It was orig. published with an eye to economic and
ecologically responsibally dietary practices. Contains a lot of good ideas
about complementing food groups. The point being that with a limited income,
one can do a lot with eg beans and rice, etc if they have a good guidebook
to keep them from getting out of nutritional balance. Much press has come
thru on this topic, but this one is still a nice little source book.
On the topic of H. Helper- granted, the storebought stuff is NASTY. But
my husband makes a homemade version that is wonderful, does last for days,
and (if you eat meat) is nutritionally sound. I'm not necesarily a
macrobiotic type.. he uses burger (we grow our own beef), nooodles, water,
some soup base type seasoning, whatever veg. we have (broccoli,
asparagus(!!!), and then cheese. It's very yum. I figure if you make h
help[er, you are using the beef anyway- then you just use your own noodles
and the rest, and it's got to be cheaper and better (well, we grow our own
asparagus too..)
--
-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that
refuses to stay between the lines when parking --
"Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote in message
news:I4vB5.45561$65.4...@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com...
> > Chemo for lupus!? A dear friend of mine got lupus after a gall bladder
> > operation many years ago. She reached the point where she was so sick
> that she
> > one day lay down to die. Her niece did something so completely cruel
that
> my
> > friend bounced back with resolution to fight the lupus and gave up on
> > conventional doctors. She found an MD who applies alternative health.
> She
> > takes oregano oil (which is very powerful and must be started with only
a
> > couple of drops) when she gets infections now, does not consume sugar,
> caffeine
> > or wheat. Eats organic and runs around like a very healthy, much
younger
> > person.
>
Wakefield
(Zostrix, I think they call it). Last I checked, it was prescription med,
but that may have changed. What I hear from others is about 50/50. My
tentative observation is that the younger, less stressed people seem to be
able to tolerate it and benefit from it- but if you take an elderly,
thin-skinned, frail person; chronically ill and seeming to have prolonged
shingles probably worsened by stress- they seem to say that the zostrix is
painful in and of itself, and so it is of no benefit. This is not an
all-or-none thing. I'm still asking everyone I can. I expect I'll find some
spleeny younger people that it doesn't help either.
I am interested to see whether someone has tried blending their own. The
logical thing woukld be to look at the commercial formulation and start on
the low side, work up. I did recently see a caution about capsicum oil- I
think it was when i was getting an order together to liberty natural or
whatever they are called. I wasn't ordering that anyway, so I didn't stop to
see if it was a health hazard, or rather one of the known precursors for
making illegal drugs (I can't imagine..) I am sure one could grow peppers
and make an infused oil. Has anyone tried this? I know it's a culinary
thing.
--
-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that
refuses to stay between the lines when parking --
"Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FjvB5.45580$65.4...@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com...
John & Mari Morgan
>Will print this out for her. I have lemon balm herb, SJW capsules, Licorice
>root and Astragalus root for teas.
Just a note on something to watch out for - I also have fibromyalgia
and a few other minor autoimmune problems and found that astragalus
(prescribed by TWO different TCM practitioners) made me MUCH sicker.
Whenever I took it I had a terrible flu-ish feeling. Weak, feverish,
spacey, achier than usual, promptly followed by catching any and every
bug that went round my husband's office. When I stopped taking it it
took several weeks for me to get back to "my normal." Sometimes
stimulating an already overactive immune system is NOT the best route
to go.
Mari
John & Mari Morgan
wrote:
> Do you remember the old book- 'Diet for a Small Planet'? (Francis Moore
>Lappe, 1969!!) It was orig. published with an eye to economic and
>ecologically responsibally dietary practices. Contains a lot of good ideas
>about complementing food groups. The point being that with a limited income,
>one can do a lot with eg beans and rice, etc if they have a good guidebook
>to keep them from getting out of nutritional balance. Much press has come
>thru on this topic, but this one is still a nice little source book.
"Recipes from a Small Planet" is also really useful, and not so hard
to get through with a foggy mind. :-) Might perhaps be more valuable
in this situation. I used to have both books myself, and I agree this
idea might well work well IF she has someone to help her with the
cooking when necessary. One problem with frugal eating is that it
often involves a lot more work! Busy mentioned that the lady was so
tired much of the time that she didn't even eat, much less cook. I can
really relate to that! For much of this summer I lived on "healthy"
varieties of frozen dinners (Amy's etc.) because I was too exhausted
to even cook a pot of noodles.
Lappe's peanut-butter-honey-dry milk spread got me through a LOT of
meals though. That one's served me well for years on end. I spread it
on apple slices, celery sticks, whole grain bagels, and on really bad
days just dug a spoonful out of the darn container and ate it like a
lollipop. Use a natural peanut butter or other nut butter, although
they're far more expensive, without sugar in it (but salt helps the
taste) and the small amount of honey isn't much of a problem - adds a
lot of flavor if you use a strong wildflower honey instead of the blnd
clover honey typical to most supermarkets. (If you have problems with
hayfever, eat locally made honey. From within 10 miles if you can.
It's like an immunization for the local pollen. I was skeptical but it
helped.) If cow milk is an issue, there's powdered goat milk, or
powdered soy milk if even that's a problem, but powdered soymilk has a
lot less calcium IIRC.
The Tightwad Gazette books have a bunch of cheap, simple recipes, too,
and are a valuable-far-beyond-their-price gift for anyone living on a
limited income.
Mari
former frugality goddess :-)
John & Mari Morgan
>Lifestyle and diet changes would most definitely help - however, she is on a
>limited income (disability) which JUST covers her small mortgage and
>utilities, and she does get $22 a month in food stamps however buys a lot of
>(what I consider) junk foods and she stretches them for many days (like
>hamburger helper type things). Don't blame her having to live on $22 a
>month is simply impossible. I bring her some foods as I can, healthy
>choices, which she appreciates - but I cannot see how she can *afford*
>healthy foods.
I understand this _completely_. Is there a health food store around
where you/she (maybe you could shop for her?) could purchase staples
in bulk? Not big huge packages like at Costco, but stuff that's not
prepackaged. It's much cheaper for me to buy, for instance, brown rice
out of the bins at the health food store than in little boxes at the
supermarket, and as a side bennie it's better for the environment. :-)
It's a good way to get nutritous staple foods a bit more cheaply,
freeing up a little more money for whatever forms of produce she
tolerates best and maybe even a treat once in a while. Having stores
like this really saved my butt several times, and since they also had
cheap seasonings in bulk my food also had a lot more flavor!
Also, try talking to the produce managers at local grocery stores. I
have heard of people being able to get the bruised and battered
produce for pennies on the dollar this way. Explain that she is ill
and on a very low fixed income. The fancier stores aren't as good for
this as the, um, "lower-end" markets. If you have a farmer's market
around, go at the very end of the day when they're packing up, and
sometimes they will GIVE you stuff for free so they don't have to haul
it home. Or they will sell it very cheaply. Vegetables and fruits that
she can tolerate raw would be easiest for her to handle, but perhaps
you could help her prepare and freeze an occasional windfall of
veggies or fruit that she could just nuke or thaw and eat almost-raw
later.
Kudos to you for taking such good care of your neighbor! You are a
true friend.
Mari
Busy18
"John & Mari Morgan" <john...@gis.net> wrote in message
> Just a note on something to watch out for - I also have fibromyalgia
> and a few other minor autoimmune problems and found that astragalus
> (prescribed by TWO different TCM practitioners) made me MUCH sicker.
> Whenever I took it I had a terrible flu-ish feeling. Weak, feverish,
> spacey, achier than usual, promptly followed by catching any and every
> bug that went round my husband's office.
Gotcha. Thanks. When I showed LP the posts I printed out, she did say she
had tried a tincture of astragalus a month or so ago and said she felt it
made her feel worse so she stopped taking it.
When I stopped taking it it
> took several weeks for me to get back to "my normal." Sometimes
> stimulating an already overactive immune system is NOT the best route
> to go.
Aside from the obvious of rest, reduction of stress, good food and some of
the more gentle herbs like the lemon balm, what worked for you and have you
been able to help your body's immune system using any herbal or nutritional
modalities?
Seems like of late her body's house has all the doors and windows stuck open
and she's prime for whateva is going around or lying dormant and has the
opportunity to come out and run amuck...
She has used echinacea before with no adverse results, in fact helped with
some "cold" like symptoms.
So far I'm going to get her the nutritional supplements and some of the
milder herbs.
Thanks,
Simple
Busy18
"Wakefield" <her...@loa.com> wrote in message
news:8r7l94$ilv$1...@news.loa.com...
> A grab bag of ideas- some a bit off-topic..
> Do you remember the old book- 'Diet for a Small Planet'? (Francis Moore
> Lappe, 1969!!)
Have it, read it several times (I'm like that book, old too - ;o).
It was orig. published with an eye to economic and
> ecologically responsibally dietary practices. Contains a lot of good ideas
> about complementing food groups. The point being that with a limited
income,
> one can do a lot with eg beans and rice, etc if they have a good guidebook
> to keep them from getting out of nutritional balance. Much press has come
> thru on this topic, but this one is still a nice little source book.
Am going to take it off the shelf and dust it off and open those pages (hope
they don't crumble to dust, it's been a while since we grokked).
> On the topic of H. Helper- granted, the storebought stuff is NASTY. But
> my husband makes a homemade version that is wonderful, does last for days,
> and (if you eat meat) is nutritionally sound. I'm not necesarily a
> macrobiotic type.. he uses burger (we grow our own beef), nooodles, water,
> some soup base type seasoning, whatever veg. we have (broccoli,
> asparagus(!!!), and then cheese. It's very yum. I figure if you make h
> help[er, you are using the beef anyway- then you just use your own noodles
> and the rest, and it's got to be cheaper and better (well, we grow our own
> asparagus too..)
You've got my mind spinning - bet hers will be to when I share this.
We're going shopping on Wed./Thu depending how she feels. Will see what she
thinks of this. Does DEFINITELY sounds better than HH (doesn't that have
msg and all those other loverly designer ingredients in it?) Think so.
Thanks
Especially for reminding me of my book!
Simple
Busy18
> to get through with a foggy mind. :-) Might perhaps be more valuable
> in this situation. I used to have both books myself, and I agree this
> idea might well work well IF she has someone to help her with the
> cooking when necessary.
I do try to help, but can't do it every day (shoot, I don't even cook every
day for myself and my son!). Whenever I do, I offer. Beans and rice and
some of the *wierd* stuff I eat just don't entice her. She doesn't get
excited over blackened tofu or wild greens salad (mmmm). We snack raw stuff
allot, and of course my son at 13 is the king of crap food. He nukes hot
dogs and stuff and runs from the whole food. I can make a meal of a
pineapple! LP just doesn't think of eating this way. I'm not judging at
all; everyone's different and that's what makes it interesting.
One problem with frugal eating is that it
> often involves a lot more work! Busy mentioned that the lady was so
> tired much of the time that she didn't even eat, much less cook.
Absolutely! She can barely move from the sofa some days - and a whole day
can go by and she rests but is still so-o-o-o tired.
I can
> really relate to that! For much of this summer I lived on "healthy"
> varieties of frozen dinners (Amy's etc.) because I was too exhausted
> to even cook a pot of noodles.
That's why some days she doesn't even eat! Usually I can help her about 3-4
evenings a week (depending on my work and parent schedule) but it is not
enough.
>
> Lappe's peanut-butter-honey-dry milk spread got me through a LOT of
> meals though. That one's served me well for years on end.
Can you post or e-mail me that recipe. Sounds like I MAY have the stuff
around here to make it for her to try.
I spread it
> on apple slices, celery sticks, whole grain bagels, and on really bad
> days just dug a spoonful out of the darn container and ate it like a
> lollipop. Use a natural peanut butter or other nut butter, although
> they're far more expensive, without sugar in it (but salt helps the
> taste) and the small amount of honey isn't much of a problem - adds a
> lot of flavor if you use a strong wildflower honey instead of the blnd
> clover honey typical to most supermarkets. (If you have problems with
> hayfever, eat locally made honey. From within 10 miles if you can.
> It's like an immunization for the local pollen. I was skeptical but it
> helped.) If cow milk is an issue, there's powdered goat milk, or
> powdered soy milk if even that's a problem, but powdered soymilk has a
> lot less calcium IIRC.
What is IIRC?
> The Tightwad Gazette books have a bunch of cheap, simple recipes, too,
> and are a valuable-far-beyond-their-price gift for anyone living on a
> limited income.
Can those be found at the library, or is it a magazine?
Thanks
Simple
Busy18
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:56:24 GMT, "Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote:
> >Lifestyle and diet changes would most definitely help - however, she is
on a
> >limited income (disability) which JUST covers her small mortgage and
> >utilities, and she does get $22 a month in food stamps however buys a lot
of
> >(what I consider) junk foods and she stretches them for many days (like
> >hamburger helper type things). Don't blame her having to live on $22 a
> >month is simply impossible. I bring her some foods as I can, healthy
> >choices, which she appreciates - but I cannot see how she can *afford*
> >healthy foods.
>
> I understand this _completely_. Is there a health food store around
> where you/she (maybe you could shop for her?) could purchase staples
> in bulk?
Yes. I go once a month for my staples. If she wants to try some of the
*whole food * recipes, I can certainly share both the trip and the food when
I make it.
Not big huge packages like at Costco, but stuff that's not
> prepackaged. It's much cheaper for me to buy, for instance, brown rice
> out of the bins at the health food store than in little boxes at the
> supermarket, and as a side bennie it's better for the environment. :-)
Hear ya loud and clear there.
> It's a good way to get nutritous staple foods a bit more cheaply,
And the ability to buy small amounts to try.
> freeing up a little more money for whatever forms of produce she
> tolerates best and maybe even a treat once in a while. Having stores
> like this really saved my butt several times, and since they also had
> cheap seasonings in bulk my food also had a lot more flavor!
Yep, we're lucky to have a well stocked and conscious HF store here. They
have LOTS in the bulk bins :)
At least we won't have to buy a lot of HERBS - my yard produces enough for
two families for sure of things that like to grow in FL. I am always
sharing the bounty...
> Also, try talking to the produce managers at local grocery stores. I
> have heard of people being able to get the bruised and battered
> produce for pennies on the dollar this way. Explain that she is ill
> and on a very low fixed income. The fancier stores aren't as good for
> this as the, um, "lower-end" markets. If you have a farmer's market
> around, go at the very end of the day when they're packing up, and
> sometimes they will GIVE you stuff for free so they don't have to haul
> it home. Or they will sell it very cheaply. Vegetables and fruits that
> she can tolerate raw would be easiest for her to handle, but perhaps
> you could help her prepare and freeze an occasional windfall of
> veggies or fruit that she could just nuke or thaw and eat almost-raw
> later.
I'm not sure how the folks in my business community would react to that
one - they're sorta funny 'bout that - insurance, liability, etc. (they
chain link fenced and lock the dumpsters up in my town so folks can't get
the food out for that reason - they say). But hey! I'm bold; even nuts.
Never hurts to ask...
> Kudos to you for taking such good care of your neighbor! You are a
> true friend.
I try, but Mari I just KNOW it's not going to be enough. I just can't take
over and take care of her the way I'd like to and know I COULD. I'd like
help even more if I could free the time. However, I am taking it day by day
and trying to do as I can when I can - it is v-e-r-y frustrating to have
some the ability and some of the resources; but not the time.
You and allot of the others I respect here on the NG are a great support for
me and it extends across the yard to my neighbor too. I learn a lot here; I
get a lot of support here too. I am intensely grateful as we live in sort
of a "dead zone" for herby folks.
Thanks again
Simple
Busy18
> I only have seen people who have used the commercial preparation
> (Zostrix, I think they call it). Last I checked, it was prescription med,
> but that may have changed. What I hear from others is about 50/50. My
> tentative observation is that the younger, less stressed people seem to be
> able to tolerate it and benefit from it- but if you take an elderly,
> thin-skinned, frail person; chronically ill and seeming to have prolonged
> shingles probably worsened by stress- they seem to say that the zostrix is
> painful in and of itself, and so it is of no benefit. This is not an
> all-or-none thing.
Her MD didn't think it was a viable option for her. Felt that the $ would
be wasted (he at least tries to keep a cap on expenses with her knowing she
can't pay for most stuff).
The prednisone is a cheap drug; one she uses anyway, hence why he
recommended upping the dose to help with the inflammation/pain.
>I'm still asking everyone I can.
Thanks!
I expect I'll find some
> spleeny younger people that it doesn't help either.
> I am interested to see whether someone has tried blending their own.
The
> logical thing woukld be to look at the commercial formulation and start on
> the low side, work up.
I did happen to look at a preparation at Wal-Mart today. I didn't buy it
because it was pretty expensive for a little tube. It had all kinds of
gobble-de-gook in it, and then active ingredients were the capsacin (msp.
probably I know but I'm too tired to look it up right now) and aspirin.
I did recently see a caution about capsicum oil- I
> think it was when i was getting an order together to liberty natural or
> whatever they are called. I wasn't ordering that anyway, so I didn't stop
to
> see if it was a health hazard, or rather one of the known precursors for
> making illegal drugs (I can't imagine..) I am sure one could grow peppers
> and make an infused oil. Has anyone tried this?
I make infused oils for my herbal salves of plants that lend themselves to
that process. I just wonder if cayenne would give it up to oil the
properties for topical relief of pain.
I know it's a culinary
> thing.
I can buy organically grown cayenne at my local health food store. I make
herbal salves anyhow and could probably adapt - but how much??? What
proportions for the best result - and hopefully not too strong to be
hurtful. I've been turning this over in my mind. I've never extracted
cayenne. Suppose I should get out my books and see what properties I am
looking for and what I need to extract same.
Gosh darn it. Cayenne grows great down here even - all year long - a
perinneal at that. If this works we'll have a supply for-eva and eva.
Uh-oh. Now I get it. This always happens... I should be used to it by
now. I guess cayenne is my herb of the moment to learn about (more than
just using it in teas for colds and flu). Okay. I'm up to the challenge -
will report as we go. Guess I'd better look at the land tomorrow and see
where we'll plan to grow it. Grab the books and away we go......
Thanks,
Simple
Wakefield
into oil. I know they used to put powdered red pepper into boots to keep
feet warm. Acts to increase circulation. I don't know the actual
characteristics of capsaicin, but I know some people say it burns. I'll se
if I have a chance to look it up in the Merck Index.
--
-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that
refuses to stay between the lines when parking --
"Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote in message
news:fiRB5.45727$65.4...@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com...
John & Mari Morgan
>Aside from the obvious of rest, reduction of stress, good food and some of
>the more gentle herbs like the lemon balm, what worked for you and have you
>been able to help your body's immune system using any herbal or nutritional
>modalities?
I do not use lemon balm because of its antithyroid properties (my
fibro' seems to have much to do with hypothyroidism) - as far as I'm
personally concerned, no one should use lemon balm more than once in a
great while without having their thyroid status evaluated. Low-grade
hypothyroidism is SO common that further stifling the thyroid isn't a
good idea until the thyroid has been proven to be able to handle it.
TSH should be lower than 2, not the 4.5 or more than many labs
consider "normal." (I have recently found out that kelp is a double
edged sword as far as the thyroid is concerned, and that too much
iodine - very easy to do with supplemental iodine, and the amount
differs for everyone - can further suppress thyroid function, so I
have stopped taking kelp.)
When I get flu-like symptoms, that's a signal to me that my immune
system is overstimulated and I need to do something to bring it down.
(Some people actually use immunosuppressant drugs like cyclosporin!) I
prefer to use adaptogens like ginseng (_small_ doses!) and withania
aka ashwaganda. I've been pleased with my response to withania when I
have the flu-ishness. If ginseng is too overstimulating, codonopsis is
milder, I have heard. I do not use stimulants such as caffeine or
ephedra - the short term benefit is not worth the long-term damage,
tempting as that boost may be. I eat as much garlic as I can (not a
problem, yum yum - roasted garlic on toast!) plus taking Garlitrin
garlic tablets as a systemic tonic. I eat a lot of oats, too, as they
are also gently tonic and antidepressant. And cheap. :-) I am trying
to decide whether to try oral St John's Wort again, for its
mood-stabilizing, analgesic, antiviral (by the way, one of my herb
books recommends it specifically for shingles) properties.
High quality sleep is _crucial_ as far as I'm concerned. More
important than anything else. I rotate between several sedative herbs
- linden, passionflower, skullcap, valerian, etc. - so I don't build
tolerance to any particular one. (If she is prone to depression _do
not use hops_. It aggravates it something fierce. I ran into this the
other night after not using hops for several months, and forgot that a
lowered mood was a contraindication. I was nearly suicidal that night.
Scary.) I also like to use aromatherapy; I use a blend of lavender,
clary sage, and lemon in a diffuser in my bedroom. If nothing else it
smells really nice. :-) Not only does improving sleep help with the
extraordinary fatigue and mood weirdnesses, but deep sleep is when the
body repairs itself.
I am working with a MD who has a heavily holistic orientation. About
three weeks ago I began using extremely high dose injectable vitamin
B12 (5000 mcg 3x/week) for the fatigue with some pretty impressive
results. I'd say I had about a 15% increase in energy and it seems to
be cumulative. I am lacking in the enzyme type thing that allows me to
process oral B12 and have been on low-dose shots for years. I have
also been switched from Synthroid to Armour Desiccated Thyroid, which
has multiple hormones instead of just one. Tomorrow I start with a
mind-body therapist for pain and fatigue management... I'm hoping to
improve my meditation technique and try again with hypnotherapy. I am
waiting for approval from my insurance company for a particular
physical therapist my doctor knows, as I would like to try
craniosacral work and some electrical therapy.
I did try a topical cayenne preparation (Capzasin, from the drugstore)
for pain and found it not worth the additional pain it caused! It felt
like a very bad sunburn. I wouldn't call me "spleeny" even though I'm
not quite 30 yet. :-) I don't do so well with counterirritants in
general though. Stuff like Ben-Gay feels like I've been dipped in
liquid fire. Topically I've used crampbark, arnica, and St John's Wort
with a little success - more so when I used the latter two as strongly
infused oils with massage. (My husband is a massage therapist and so I
get massage when I can tolerate it, but even self-massage helps.)
By the way, a possibly stupid question - does she have any hobbies,
anything that she _can_ do that makes her happy? I've found that
distraction is one of the best ways I can handle serious pain and the
lead-bones exhaustion. Better than any herb or vitamin going. If she
doesn't, maybe you could help her find something she would enjoy. Does
she have an internet connection? Many companies _give away_ their
outdated computers to needy people and many areas have free internet
service (look at www.freeinternet.com for example). It's saved my
sanity quite a few times to have this connection to the outside world.
When I've been especially sick I move the computer next to my bed and
surf from there!
Hope this helps.
Mari
John & Mari Morgan
>"John & Mari Morgan" <john...@gis.net> wrote in message >
>> Lappe's peanut-butter-honey-dry milk spread got me through a LOT of
>> meals though. That one's served me well for years on end.
>
>Can you post or e-mail me that recipe. Sounds like I MAY have the stuff
>around here to make it for her to try.
Well, I don't really measure, I've been making it for so long. I take
a smallish jar of natural peanut butter (the fresh-ground stuff from
the health food store works fine and is sometimes cheaper) and scrape
it into a bowl. Then I stir in as much powdered milk as I can manage
and still keep it spreadable. Add a strong tasting honey to taste, and
salt to taste if the peanut butter was unsalted. Put it back into the
jar and store it in a cool, dry place (it gets too hard to spread
stored in the fridge, but if you live in a hot place you might have to
to keep it from molding - thin it out with extra honey or a little
water then).
You can make a comparatively nutritious candy out of this if you stir
in enough dry milk (half and half dry milk and wheat germ if you have
it) to make it crumbly, with a little cinnamon if you like, and then
add enough honey to stick it back together again. Make small balls and
stud each with a few carob or chocolate chips and some raisins. (There
are arguments for chocolate over carob in small quantities - for
example, chocolate contains theophylline, which is somewhat similar to
chemicals in the brain that make you feel happy.) Store these in the
fridge. It's at least a high protein, vitamin-and-mineral-laden
response to those darn sweets cravings.
>What is IIRC?
Usenet slang for If I Recall Correctly.
>> The Tightwad Gazette books have a bunch of cheap, simple recipes, too,
>> and are a valuable-far-beyond-their-price gift for anyone living on a
>> limited income.
>
>Can those be found at the library, or is it a magazine?
It used to be a newsletter (it's not published any more), but the
newsletters were collected into three books. Tightwad Gazette 1, 2,
and 3. They should be available at the library or by interlibrary loan
if your local library doesn't have it. I am no longer so poor but I
still refer to my books a LOT. Cheap, naughty suggestion - I know
several people who got their sets nearly free with those book clubs
(get X number of books for a buck plus shipping, buy one book at
regular price in the next year things).
Mari
Wakefield
one rather unkind bit of gossip I heard was- she is so obsessed with saving
money that one time when she was visiting friends, she literally REFUSED to
let them buy pizza to eat- too expensive. If it is true, I think this is
going a little far- but that doesn't mean the ideas in the gazette are not
good- cuz I think they are. I just like balance- and pizza, once in a
while..
--
-- L Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck heretik, that
refuses to stay between the lines when parking --
"John & Mari Morgan" <john...@gis.net> wrote in message
news:ddghtsokfl0p7923t...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 00:23:27 GMT, "Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >"John & Mari Morgan" <john...@gis.net> wrote in message >
> >> Lappe's peanut-butter-honey-dry milk spread got me through a LOT of
> >> meals though. That one's served me well for years on end.
> >
> >Can you post or e-mail me that recipe. Sounds like I MAY have the stuff
> >around here to make it for her to try.
>
> Well, I don't really measure, I've been making it for so long. I take
> a smallish jar of natural peanut butter (the fresh-ground stuff from
> the health food store works fine and is sometimes cheaper) and scrape
> it into a bowl. Then I stir in as much powdered milk as I can manage
> and still keep it spreadable. Add a strong tasting honey to taste, and
> salt to taste if the peanut butter was unsalted. Put it back into the
> jar and store it in a cool, dry place (it gets too hard to spread
> stored in the fridge, but if you live in a hot place you might have to
> to keep it from molding - thin it out with extra honey or a little
> water then).
>
> You can make a comparatively nutritious candy out of this if you stir
> in enough dry milk (half and half dry milk and wheat germ if you have
> it) to make it crumbly, with a little cinnamon if you like, and then
> add enough honey to stick it back together again. Make small balls and
> stud each with a few carob or chocolate chips and some raisins. (There
> are arguments for chocolate over carob in small quantities - for
> example, chocolate contains theophylline, which is somewhat similar to
> chemicals in the brain that make you feel happy.) Store these in the
> fridge. It's at least a high protein, vitamin-and-mineral-laden
> response to those darn sweets cravings.
>
> >What is IIRC?
>
> Usenet slang for If I Recall Correctly.
>
> >> The Tightwad Gazette books have a bunch of cheap, simple recipes, too,
> >> and are a valuable-far-beyond-their-price gift for anyone living on a
> >> limited income.
> >
> >Can those be found at the library, or is it a magazine?
>
John & Mari Morgan
wrote:
(regarding capsicum)
> I think the hot stuff readily goes into oil.
It does, I've made it for food use quite a bit. Makes a nice gift. :-)
One of my books suggests using 2 ounces of chopped fresh hot pepper or
1 ounce crumbled dried hot peppers per cup of vegetable oil, simmer
gently 2-3 hours, strain. Apply sparingly to skin. Wash hands with
soap after applying this, and definitely before touching any mucous
membranes! Test on relatively non-sensitive skin before using on
sensitive skin or large areas.
> I know they used to put powdered red pepper into boots to keep
>feet warm. Acts to increase circulation. I don't know the actual
>characteristics of capsaicin, but I know some people say it burns.
According to a pamphlet I have from the pain management clinic I used
to go to, it increases circulation by irritating the tissues. The body
thinks the place is damaged and sends extra blood to it the way it
does to any injury. This warms the tissue, carries away waste products
that happen to be there, and brings extra nutrients to the tissue. It
also, in some people, desensitizes nerve endings by overloading them
with sensation, and in some people provokes the release of endorphins.
(That's why some folks think food is just incomplete if it's not hot
enough to pop your eyes out! They get a lot of endorphins from the
chilies. They literally get a little bit high!)
Mari
Busy18
> On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 00:09:18 GMT, "Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote:
> >Aside from the obvious of rest, reduction of stress, good food and some
of
> >the more gentle herbs like the lemon balm, what worked for you and have
you
> >been able to help your body's immune system using any herbal or
nutritional
> >modalities?
>
> I do not use lemon balm because of its antithyroid properties (my
> fibro' seems to have much to do with hypothyroidism) - as far as I'm
> personally concerned, no one should use lemon balm more than once in a
> great while without having their thyroid status evaluated. Low-grade
> hypothyroidism is SO common that further stifling the thyroid isn't a
> good idea until the thyroid has been proven to be able to handle it.
> TSH should be lower than 2, not the 4.5 or more than many labs
> consider "normal."
They've tested LP's thyroid levels frequently "hoping" to find something
awry there to explain some symptoms, but alas - they haven't found
suppression or elevation of the levels.
> When I get flu-like symptoms, that's a signal to me that my immune
> system is overstimulated and I need to do something to bring it down.
> (Some people actually use immunosuppressant drugs like cyclosporin!) I
> prefer to use adaptogens like ginseng (_small_ doses!)
Which ginseng do you use?
and withania
> aka ashwaganda. I've been pleased with my response to withania when I
> have the flu-ishness.
>If ginseng is too overstimulating, codonopsis is
> milder, I have heard.
I have some codonopsis (poor man's ginseng) and use it in a veggie/immune
soup. It's getting to be the time of year to make this (fall). I also use
astragalus in it, but if I share with LP will leave this out, or separate a
batch for her.
I do not use stimulants such as caffeine or
> ephedra - the short term benefit is not worth the long-term damage,
> tempting as that boost may be. I eat as much garlic as I can (not a
> problem, yum yum - roasted garlic on toast!) plus taking Garlitrin
> garlic tablets as a systemic tonic.
I eat a lot of oats, too, as they
> are also gently tonic and antidepressant. And cheap. :-)
Yes! Oats we have and are using both in the tummy and as a skin wash. Will
use in a tub eventually but she feels to week to tub right now, so she's
trying oat-water and eating oats.
I am trying
> to decide whether to try oral St John's Wort again, for its
> mood-stabilizing, analgesic, antiviral (by the way, one of my herb
> books recommends it specifically for shingles) properties.
I have some standardized SJW I could give to her for trial. She is on some
antidepressants though, so I haven't offered thus far.
> High quality sleep is _crucial_ as far as I'm concerned. More
> important than anything else.
She is tolerant to most of the most delicate effective herbs she claims, and
takes a cocktail of Exedrin PM, some pain med (?) her MD prescribed, and if
it's really bad, a xanax!. Then, she can rest, otherwise she states the
pain is so bad she can't even think of sleep.
I rotate between several sedative herbs
> - linden, passionflower, skullcap, valerian, etc. - so I don't build
> tolerance to any particular one. (If she is prone to depression _do
> not use hops_. It aggravates it something fierce. I ran into this the
> other night after not using hops for several months, and forgot that a
> lowered mood was a contraindication. I was nearly suicidal that night.
> Scary.)
I also like to use aromatherapy; I use a blend of lavender,
> clary sage, and lemon in a diffuser in my bedroom. If nothing else it
> smells really nice. :-) Not only does improving sleep help with the
> extraordinary fatigue and mood weirdnesses, but deep sleep is when the
> body repairs itself.
>
> I am working with a MD who has a heavily holistic orientation. About
> three weeks ago I began using extremely high dose injectable vitamin
> B12 (5000 mcg 3x/week) for the fatigue with some pretty impressive
> results. I'd say I had about a 15% increase in energy and it seems to
> be cumulative.
Oh, now that sounds interesting. I have B-12 sublingual and B-complex on
order for her - but maybe that won't be enough. Will mention the
injections, maybe those would be more therapeutic and she can discuss with
her MD.
I am lacking in the enzyme type thing that allows me to
> process oral B12 and have been on low-dose shots for years. I have
> also been switched from Synthroid to Armour Desiccated Thyroid, which
> has multiple hormones instead of just one. Tomorrow I start with a
> mind-body therapist for pain and fatigue management... I'm hoping to
> improve my meditation technique and try again with hypnotherapy. I am
> waiting for approval from my insurance company for a particular
> physical therapist my doctor knows, as I would like to try
> craniosacral work and some electrical therapy.
That sounds like a wonderful plan for sure! LP at this point will not have
those options as she had no insurance, but I did print out some info from a
site that had quite a bit of self-teach on visualization/meditation.
tried the topical cayenne preparation (Capzasin, from the drugstore)
> for pain and found it not worth the additional pain it caused! It felt
> like a very bad sunburn. I wouldn't call me "spleeny" even though I'm
> not quite 30 yet. :-) I don't do so well with counterirritants in
> general though. Stuff like Ben-Gay feels like I've been dipped in
> liquid fire. Topically I've used crampbark, arnica, and St John's Wort
I have SJW oil! (oh goody) that I was thinking of for topical use? It's a
lovely potent oil that an herby in VT trades me for my organic ginger root
(hey what about ginger - isn't that good for pain? I know she says it
upsets her stomach but maybe topically, hmmm) who makes it herself. It's a
deep red color. I cannot convince SJW to grow for me here in FL. I've only
used this precious oil in the past as an ingredient in my salve; but you
used it just straight? Put on areas of outbreak and/or itching and pain?
with th a little success - more so when I used the latter two as strongly
> infused oils with massage. (My husband is a massage therapist and so I
> get massage when I can tolerate it, but even self-massage helps.)
>
> By the way, a possibly stupid question - does she have any hobbies,
> anything that she _can_ do that makes her happy?
She did like to read very, very much but her vision has just gotten so bad
of late. She misses it dearly. I did offer to pick up some of the books on
tape and the large print books from our local libraries, but it's hem-haw,
sigh, just not the same.
She even has trouble reading some of the stuff I print out for her from the
web.
I've found that
> distraction
:) - I have become one of her distractions, for sure! I know she looks
forward to our visits and talks, me too.
is one of the best ways I can handle serious pain and the
> lead-bones exhaustion. Better than any herb or vitamin going. If she
> doesn't, maybe you could help her find something she would enjoy. Does
> she have an internet connection?
No.
Many companies _give away_ their
> outdated computers to needy people and many areas have free internet
> service (look at www.freeinternet.com for example). It's saved my
> sanity quite a few times to have this connection to the outside world.
> When I've been especially sick I move the computer next to my bed and
> surf from there!
Wow - will definitely check this out! Bet she'd love it. She has expressed
an interest...
All helps - thanks for sharing Mari; got a few more good ideas.
Simple
Busy18
> On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 00:23:27 GMT, "Busy18" <bus...@home.com> wrote:
> >> meals though. That one's served me well for years on end. Can you post
or e-mail me that recipe. Sounds like I MAY have the stuff
> >around here to make it for her to try.
>
> a smallish jar of natural peanut butter (the fresh-ground stuff from
> the health food store works fine and is sometimes cheaper) and scrape
> it into a bowl. Then I stir in as much powdered milk as I can manage
> and still keep it spreadable. Add a strong tasting honey to taste, and
> salt to taste if the peanut butter was unsalted. Put it back into the
> jar and store it in a cool, dry place (it gets too hard to spread
> stored in the fridge, but if you live in a hot place you might have to
> to keep it from molding - thin it out with extra honey or a little
> water then).
YUM! Got it all! (she cant have peanuts coz of some kind of mold they get
that she's allergic to, but I have some cashew nut butter) Gonna whip some
up tomorrow
>
> You can make a comparatively nutritious candy out of this if you stir
> in enough dry milk (half and half dry milk and wheat germ if you have
> it) to make it crumbly, with a little cinnamon if you like, and then
> add enough honey to stick it back together again. Make small balls and
> stud each with a few carob or chocolate chips and some raisins. (There
> are arguments for chocolate over carob in small quantities - for
> example, chocolate contains theophylline, which is somewhat similar to
> chemicals in the brain that make you feel happy.) Store these in the
> fridge. It's at least a high protein, vitamin-and-mineral-laden
> response to those darn sweets cravings.
DOUBLE YUM! Thanks!
> >What is IIRC?
>
> Usenet slang for If I Recall Correctly.
Duh - sorry.
>
> >> The Tightwad Gazette books have a bunch of cheap, simple recipes, too,
> >> and are a valuable-far-beyond-their-price gift for anyone living on a
> >> limited income.
> >
> >Can those be found at the library, or is it a magazine?
>
> It used to be a newsletter (it's not published any more), but the
> newsletters were collected into three books. Tightwad Gazette 1, 2,
> and 3. They should be available at the library or by interlibrary loan
> if your local library doesn't have it. I am no longer so poor but I
> still refer to my books a LOT. Cheap, naughty suggestion - I know
> several people who got their sets nearly free with those book clubs
> (get X number of books for a buck plus shipping, buy one book at
> regular price in the next year things).
Thanks - will check this one out! Sounds like it might be handy dandy - I'm
a single Mom and may not be on a fixed income, but nearly so as I have
limits on the amount of time I can work and still be a parent. So yeah,
guess I am on a pretty fixed income...
These may have some tips that will help BOTH of us. Hurrah!
Gosh - you've got a lot of info!
Thanks
Simple
Busy18
> I read the tightwad gazette for awhile..nothing against the author, but
> one rather unkind bit of gossip I heard was- she is so obsessed with
saving
> money that one time when she was visiting friends, she literally REFUSED
to
> let them buy pizza to eat- too expensive. If it is true, I think this is
> going a little far- but that doesn't mean the ideas in the gazette are not
> good- cuz I think they are. I just like balance- and pizza, once in a
> while..
>
the insistence of this unruly and fussy 13-year-old boy that lives here and
thinks he runs the place. And mom must ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOT MAKE A
HEALTHY PIZZA AT HOME. Gotta be take out or it's no good.
:):):):)
Simple
Busy18
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:43:32 -0400, "Wakefield" <her...@loa.com>
> wrote:
> (regarding capsicum)
> > I think the hot stuff readily goes into oil.
>
> It does, I've made it for food use quite a bit. Makes a nice gift. :-)
> One of my books suggests using 2 ounces of chopped fresh hot pepper or
> 1 ounce crumbled dried hot peppers per cup of vegetable oil, simmer
> gently 2-3 hours, strain. Apply sparingly to skin. Wash hands with
> soap after applying this, and definitely before touching any mucous
> membranes! Test on relatively non-sensitive skin before using on
> sensitive skin or large areas.
I'm a little apprehensive with this (always am with new things anyhow, but
that's the learning part of new things right?). I am definitely going to
simmer a pot of this this weekend and try it on myself first. But if it
causes any kind of pain to my friend, oh my gosh, wouldn't that just be
awful... Yes, definitely a test area for her and ME FIRST to see.
How 'bout this one. I think they put the salicylic acid (aspirin) in the
store preps for this reason - what do you think? I can infuse some willow
bark too, or maybe those echinacea seeds (they sort of numb the throat,
wonder if they'll do the skin too) Never infused them in oil before,
usually tinctured them. No - bet that numb-thing won't come out in the oil.
But then again I won't know unless I try. (Boy this kitchen is going to
simmer on Saturday - hope hurricaine/tropical storms Joyce and Keith don't
decide to drop in for the weekend).
Then again the slippery elm and witch hazel might be a good addition, with
calendula and rose petals to make a nice smell and good for the skin.
Okay ya'll - you can bash me! I get going on this and go with my gut
(course, I wouldn't infuse them all in one pot but separately and then mix
parts). Now I'm really inspired to do this! Maybe I'm totally off, guess
I'll see. I'll probably end up with more than 8 different batches of
trials with this...
Any idea if the slippery elm and witch hazel will give up their properties
to an oil.
Maybe I'll make the oil into a salve, but probably oil would be easier for
her to dab. I think I'll use sesame even though I have to simmer that
slower at a much lower heat and longer, she has them on her scalp too and
the sesame is light and good for the skin and would wash out of her hair
better than the olive oil I normally use.
And of course finish off with vitamin E oil and maybe a dash of tea tree oil
for it's antiviral, sorta numbing and itch relieving properties.
> > I know they used to put powdered red pepper into boots to keep
> >feet warm. Acts to increase circulation. I don't know the actual
> >characteristics of capsaicin, but I know some people say it burns.
>
> According to a pamphlet I have from the pain management clinic I used
> to go to, it increases circulation by irritating the tissues. The body
> thinks the place is damaged and sends extra blood to it the way it
> does to any injury. This warms the tissue, carries away waste products
> that happen to be there, and brings extra nutrients to the tissue. It
> also, in some people, desensitizes nerve endings by overloading them
> with sensation, and in some people provokes the release of endorphins.
Think this would be appropriate for the shingle symptoms? To increase
circulation to the area and stimulate this kind of response in a person who
is so *exhausted* body wise and overly stimulated?
> (That's why some folks think food is just incomplete if it's not hot
> enough to pop your eyes out! They get a lot of endorphins from the
> chilies. They literally get a little bit high!)
Thanks
Simple
John & Mari Morgan
>Which ginseng do you use?
Um, lemme think. It's been a while, I much prefer the withania. I keep
wanting to say Kyolic, but I think that's garlic. It was a blend of
the three different types, Korean, American, and Siberian (eleuthero).
>Yes! Oats we have and are using both in the tummy and as a skin wash. Will
>use in a tub eventually but she feels to week to tub right now, so she's
>trying oat-water and eating oats.
Try footbaths. I found them very comforting when I was too weak to
climb in and out of the tub - I used them with aromatherapy
preparations meant for tub baths, and enjoyed myself immensely. I put
a dishpan in the tub under the faucet and sat on the shower seat I
picked up at a yard sale (one of the best purchases I ever made, but
an upturned 5 gallon bucket with a folded towel on top as a cushion
worked too). Read a magazine and soaked my feet, and then when I was
done I could just tip the basin over and leave it.
>I have some standardized SJW I could give to her for trial. She is on some
>antidepressants though, so I haven't offered thus far.
I would really not mix SJW and antidepressants. Call me a nervous old
biddy if you like. :-)
>> High quality sleep is _crucial_ as far as I'm concerned. More
>> important than anything else.
>
>She is tolerant to most of the most delicate effective herbs she claims, and
>takes a cocktail of Exedrin PM, some pain med (?) her MD prescribed, and if
>it's really bad, a xanax!. Then, she can rest, otherwise she states the
>pain is so bad she can't even think of sleep.
Yep, I know what she means about the pain being so bad she can't
sleep. Xanax isn't the best possible drug for sleep, that stifles
delta sleep which is going to make things worse. Excedrin PM, if I
remember right, is diphenydramine and acetominophen, and remember that
a steady use of acetominophen is toxic to the liver and kidneys. Look
for something with diphenhydramine alone if there's nothing else that
gets her to sleep. It should be available generic, check the
antihistamines. But she should really discuss this further with her
doctor as there are far safer alternatives even for chemical drugs. If
she can take the pain medication on a firm schedule, it works a lot
better than just taking it as needed. The dopeyness is less of a
problem because you generally need less, since it doesn't need to
break through a high pain level.
If there are prescription drugs she cannot afford, she needs to
contact the manufacturers. Almost every drug manufacturer has programs
to provide medications for reduced prices or free to people who need
them and cannot afford them.
>Oh, now that sounds interesting. I have B-12 sublingual and B-complex on
>order for her - but maybe that won't be enough. Will mention the
>injections, maybe those would be more therapeutic and she can discuss with
>her MD.
Do some research online for "B12" and "fatigue" - it's a treatment
used for chronic fatigue syndrome (which IMO is the same damn thing as
fibromyalgia, I've been dx'ed with both alternately depending on which
symptom is foremost) with some amazing results for the fatigue.
>> Tomorrow I start with a
>> mind-body therapist for pain and fatigue management... I'm hoping to
>> improve my meditation technique and try again with hypnotherapy. I am
>> waiting for approval from my insurance company for a particular
>> physical therapist my doctor knows, as I would like to try
>> craniosacral work and some electrical therapy.
>
>That sounds like a wonderful plan for sure! LP at this point will not have
>those options as she had no insurance, but I did print out some info from a
>site that had quite a bit of self-teach on visualization/meditation.
Check with local massage schools and physical therapy training
programs - she may be able to "guinea-pig" for them for free and get
some of the bodywork she needs. Your local Independent Living Center
may have recommendations for how she might be able to get in with an
experienced therapist who could help her for free. When I got sick I
didn't have insurance either, and if I knew then what I know now I'll
bet I wouldn't be sick now.
>I have SJW oil! (oh goody) that I was thinking of for topical use? It's a
>lovely potent oil that an herby in VT trades me for my organic ginger root
>(hey what about ginger - isn't that good for pain? I know she says it
>upsets her stomach but maybe topically, hmmm) who makes it herself. It's a
>deep red color. I cannot convince SJW to grow for me here in FL. I've only
>used this precious oil in the past as an ingredient in my salve; but you
>used it just straight? Put on areas of outbreak and/or itching and pain?
I've never used ginger topically, although I include ginger essential
oil in my "arthritis stick" - I don't see why you couldn't try it,
maybe as a poultice or fomentation. Test it on nonsensitive skin
first, of course. It might be a little TOO warming! But yes, I just
slapped that SJW oil on straight (and also mixed with oil infused with
arnica), wherever it hurt.
The "arthritis stick" (since I know you're gonna ask :-)) is SJW oil
and arnica oil firmed up with beeswax and cocoa butter to make it
about the texture of stick deodorant, with essential oils good for
muscle and joint pain added. I need to keep a few secrets :-) but tops
on the list were rosemary, clove, ginger, and eucalyptus. I put it in
a deodorant container for ease of application, as I do all my salves
and things - I hate salve-sticky fingers!
Mari
John & Mari Morgan
>Okay ya'll - you can bash me! I get going on this and go with my gut
>(course, I wouldn't infuse them all in one pot but separately and then mix
>parts). Now I'm really inspired to do this! Maybe I'm totally off, guess
>I'll see. I'll probably end up with more than 8 different batches of
>trials with this...
STRONG suggestion - test every single one of those things individually
before you go combining them. There's nothing more annoying than
reacting negatively to a multi-component solution and not knowing
which dang thing you're reacting to!
>Any idea if the slippery elm and witch hazel will give up their properties
>to an oil.
>
>Maybe I'll make the oil into a salve, but probably oil would be easier for
>her to dab.
If you make a lotion with the oil you can use decoctions or water
infusions for the herbs that don't give up their goodies to oil as
well. Lotions are also often easier to smear around than oils, since
they're usually less drippy. There are explanations of how to make
lotion at http://www.luxurylane.com/thelibrary/recipefiles/lotion.htm
if you don't know how. Otherwise, do you perhaps have an old roll-on
bottle, like for deodorant, floating around? Those work _great_ for
applying oils. The "bingo bottles" you fill with your own ink for
marking bingo cards work well too - they are plastic bottles with a
felt or cloth pad over the mouth of the bottle, with a tight cap over
that. www.earlychildhood.com has them cheaply if you can't find them
locally. Six for two bucks or something like that.
>> According to a pamphlet I have from the pain management clinic I used
>> to go to, it increases circulation by irritating the tissues. The body
>> thinks the place is damaged and sends extra blood to it the way it
>> does to any injury. This warms the tissue, carries away waste products
>> that happen to be there, and brings extra nutrients to the tissue. It
>> also, in some people, desensitizes nerve endings by overloading them
>> with sensation, and in some people provokes the release of endorphins.
>
>Think this would be appropriate for the shingle symptoms? To increase
>circulation to the area and stimulate this kind of response in a person who
>is so *exhausted* body wise and overly stimulated?
First, the above was general information in response to "Wakefield,"
not specific commentary on your particular situation. But... That is
why I suggested testing in a small nonsensitive area first, perhaps
with a more diluted form, to see how she reacts to it. For some people
it is appropriate, for others it's not, and depressingly, there's no
real way to tell without trying it. (Which is also why I said above to
test each ingredient separately.) She may well be one of the ones
whose nerve endings desensitize and who gets an endorphin increase
from capsaicin no matter _what_ her problem is. I have seen frail
people who anyone would swear would never be able to tolerate even the
tiniest amount slathering strong capsicum preparations on like it's
plain body lotion, and big strong healthy men whimpering because they
got a few drops on their skin.
Mari
Busy18
Thanks again to all.
Didn't get to experiment with the infused oils this weekend as an oak tree
decided it was time to fall on my property! Had to give it proper attention
since it had mine, for sure.
Did give LP the SJW oil and she said it helped with the pain on the lesions,
although she said was greasy and stained some things - oops.
Went to the grocery store with her last week and have some healthy choices
for her to try, more *whole* food.
Cut up and pre-prepared the veggies for her so they are easy for her.
Doesn't want any beans and rice or tofu (my main staple), but did take some
of the broiled bass filet with thyme and lemon that I made and said it was
very good (gotta go fishin' soon, was my last batch in the freezer, sigh).
Trying some of the white rice with a veggie broth (didn't want the brown,
but maybe later) that we bought bulk at the health food store.
Taking echinacea/catnip tea 3 x's a day since Thursday - no difference so
far.
Taking L-lysine, and the b complex, thinks it helps.
That's all for now - thanks for all your suggestions. It will take us some
time to use/find out what works for her and what she is comfortable with.
Will let you know if you want how it's going.
Simple