Absinthe from tincture
austin...@utoronto.ca
I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Austin.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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STUART P. BEATON
austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
: I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
: figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
: pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
: maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
: take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
: Thanks.
: Austin.
Interesting coincidence: I just read a couple days ago about somebody who
killed themselves trying to make absinthe. Apparently he used wormwood
massage oil. The article noted that many countries had banned the sale of
absinthe, but I guess you can get the essential ingredients, at least in
Canada? Or the question is: Is it the correct ingredient?
But to your question, I would start at their theraputic use dosage: that way
you should be safe with up to three glasses a day. If it's too strong
to drink, reduce it! But I would be cautious about going stronger. A
triple dose once a day will probably have very different effects than
a regular dosage 3 times a day.
Out of curiosity, what is it claimed to be theraputic for? And is it a
unregulated, unmonitored, possibly uncertain-quality-controlled 'dietary
supplement'?
Stuart
slade or kay henson
Why would you want to make absinthe? Do you know it was just in the =
news that a man died drinking it? It's very dangerous. Wormwood is used =
to treat worms and is very potent. In my opinion, I'd rather drink some =
Raid than absinthe.
Kay
-- kay at http://www.herbcare.com
or
-- slade at http://www.pensys.com/pages/slade=20
austin...@utoronto.ca wrote in article =
<8749865...@dejanews.com>...
> I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
>figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
>pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
>maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says =
to
>take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
>Thanks.
>Austin.
>
>-------------------=3D=3D=3D=3D Posted via Deja News =
=3D=3D=3D=3D-----------------------
Tom Shaw
slade or kay henson wrote:
>
> Why would you want to make absinthe? Do you know it was just in the news that a man died drinking it? It's very dangerous. Wormwood is used to treat worms and is very potent. In my opinion, I'd rather drink some Raid than absinthe.
>
> Kay
>
Well I got shot down in flames for suggesting that absinthe was bad for
people a while back. The flamers maintained that it was all a big
conspiracy on the part of all those writers who have suggested that
absinthe, made from wormwood, was a poison. I guess old
Toulouse-Lautrec died from a more common disease which you might have
gotten fooling around in the flesh-pots of Paris. Never tread on the
snake oil of the herbalists, to mix a metaphor or whatever that was.
Tom Shaw
coyo...@swbell.net
OK! Kay, get your liter of raid and I'll make up a liter of
Absinthe... the real stuff that Henri Pernot used to make back in
1855....
We'll stand up and start doing shots and see who is still standing in 48
hours.
Yes, the prolonged use of absinthe is dangerous, habit forming and
generally not recommended for the population... However when used in
extremes of mederation there are theraputic benefits to the use of
absinthe. Lower back pains with spasms, applied as a hot compress for
severe headaches which nothing else will moderate and as stated above a
vermicide. It has also been used as a febrifuge and a stomachic.
Please note that I do not endorse or recommend this dring as a regular
course of treatment rather as the extreme, and last resort. This is one
particularly powerful version of an herbal power tool. You need to read
the label several times here folks!
dagon productions
austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
: I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
: figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
: pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
: take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
: Thanks.
: Austin.
I don't believe that wormwood tincture has much of the active compound
that you are looking for from wormwood proper. Best to get some actual
wormwood herb and soak about an ounce in a pint of vodka... mix the
this mixture after it has sat for 3-6 months with pernod... tastes
like shit but does the job... and yes be careful of regular use
of absinthe... it is hepatitic... IOW it kills your liver.
-douglas
JT Caterwaul
austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
>
> I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
> figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
> pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
> maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
> take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
> Thanks.
> Austin.
>
I would be *very* conservative when using tincture, as you are adding an
alcohol based product to more alcohol. (Most tinctures are made in a
50% alcohol base; 4-6 ounces per 1 cup 100 proof alcohol.)
Most commonly used herbs have the potetial to kill or harm. White
willow bark is the base of pure aspirin; we can take aspirin daily, but
can still die of an overdose. Most people who have died or been damaged
by wormwood is because they overindulged in too potent a concoction, or
had a sensitivity or allergy.
wl-ski
a> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:13:59 -0600
a> Subject: Absinthe from tincture
a> From: austin...@utoronto.ca
a> I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
figure out
a> how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per pint, 4.4
mL
a> essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2 maceration, so I'd
expect it to
a> be pretty strong, but the bottle says to take 20 drops three times
a day for
a> "theraputic use". Any suggestions? Thanks. Austin.
Austin, I try to be an encourager, so all I can add, here, is to
please be careful. I am not an alarmist, and don't want to give that
impression, but this is some stuff that requires prudence! I remember
stories (as a child, growing up, in Alabama) of those who didn't make
it through their aperitif! Wish I could be more helpful with your
"project".
cheers,
wls
Jennie Kermode
In article <608kne$7...@hermes.cair.du.edu>
sbe...@odin.cair.du.edu "STUART P. BEATON " writes:
> austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
> : I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
> Out of curiosity, what is it claimed to be theraputic for?
Absinthe is used as an appetite-stimulant, and can be very useful in
restarting the proper process of digestion after someone has suffered severe
malnutrition. Interestingly, if applied in a poultice, it can also be good
for curing backache.
Jennie
--
Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
Gothcode 3.0A:- GoAu7$CS3 TGlTgFeNr9 PMoRSg B20/48Bk"3 cBk9
V6s M3p1GooFanPuoCl C6p a23-(14) n6 b54 H163 g7!??76A m0@26
w7A v5S r3E p75765Rd D77* h7AdFeGl sF5PSrWy k7BdSMmDspFNRWT
N0893NEH Hfs5p10 LukGla9
Dan Parker
coyo...@swbell.net wrote:
>
> <<snip>>
> Yes, the prolonged use of absinthe is dangerous, habit forming and
> generally not recommended for the population... However when used in
> extremes of mederation there are theraputic benefits to the use of
> absinthe.
OK, I'll bite. What are "extremes of moderation"?
--
-- "If food is the body of good living, wine is its soul"
--
-- Clifton Fadiman, American editor and writer.
-- 1904-?
--
pc...@a4455apc.esr.hp.com
Tom Shaw (a000...@airmail.net) wrote:
: slade or kay henson wrote:
: >
: > Why would you want to make absinthe? Do you know it was just in the news that a man died drinking it? It's very dangerous. Wormwood is used to treat worms and is very potent. In my opinion, I'd rather drink some Raid than absinthe.
: >
: > Kay
: >
: Well I got shot down in flames for suggesting that absinthe was bad for
: people a while back. The flamers maintained that it was all a big
: conspiracy on the part of all those writers who have suggested that
: absinthe, made from wormwood, was a poison. I guess old
: Toulouse-Lautrec died from a more common disease which you might have
: gotten fooling around in the flesh-pots of Paris. Never tread on the
: snake oil of the herbalists, to mix a metaphor or whatever that was.
: Tom Shaw
I don't think any herbalists are recommending absinthe for ANYTHING.
I'm not sure, but I don't think any herbalists ever did. It was
a recreational drug.
Wormwood has historically been used as a vermifuge, but I believe most
responsible herbalists these days would try all of the dozens of other
vermifuges first, and if they all failed, and the patient REALLY needed
to get rid of intestinal parasites, they might then resort to wormwood.
But not absinthe. And certainly not for extended periods. And not without
adding hepatoprotective treatments to keep it from doing damage.
That's my opinion. Maybe we'll both get some flames.
----------- Paul A. Cook
Bill Crick
dagon productions wrote:
>
> austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
> : I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
> : pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
> : maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
> : take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
> : Thanks.
> : Austin.
>
> that you are looking for from wormwood proper. Best to get some actual
> wormwood herb and soak about an ounce in a pint of vodka... mix the
> this mixture after it has sat for 3-6 months with pernod... tastes
> like shit but does the job... and yes be careful of regular use
> of absinthe... it is hepatitic... IOW it kills your liver.
>
> -douglas
Bill Crick
Brewius, Ergo Beer
k...@paul.spu.edu
sbe...@odin.cair.du.edu (STUART P. BEATON ) wrote:
> Interesting coincidence: I just read a couple days ago about somebody who
> killed themselves trying to make absinthe.
That's not quite true. The individual suffered acute renal (kidney)
failure and was released from the hospital after 8 days.
Here's the citation for the article:
Weisbord, Steven D., Jeremy B. Soule, and Paul L. Kimmel. "Poison on
Line - Acute Renal Failure caused by Oil of Wormwood Purchased Through
the Internet." _The New England Journal of Medicine_ v. 337, n. 12
p. 825-827 (Sep. 18, 1997)
Apparently he bought oil of wormwood after not reading the FAQ closely
enough and drank the oil straight.
"Several hours before becoming ill, [the patient] drank approximately
10 ml of the essential oil [of wormwood], assuming it was absinthe
liqueur."
kirsti
wl-ski
c1> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:28:19 -0500
c1> Subject: Re: Absinthe from tincture
c1> From: coyo...@swbell.net
c1> Tom Shaw wrote:
>>
>> slade or kay henson wrote:
>> >
c1> Please note that I do not endorse or recommend this dring as
c1> a regular course of treatment rather as the extreme, and last
c1> resort. This is one particularly powerful version of an
c1> herbal power tool. You need to read the label several times
c1> here folks!
I'm in agreement! :)
cheers,
wls
Yaje ss
Lancereaux describes an acute and a chronic alcoholic like state from
excessive absinthe ingestion. Acute poisoning leads to, agitation, loss of
consciousness with tonic-clonic convulsions for about 30 seconds, then a
regaining of consciousness. Patient has no recollection of passing out, is
lucid for a bit, then succeeded by simialr convulsions for 10-12 hours.
Effects usually subside in a day or two and in acute poisoning recovery is
the rule, altho death may occur during attack.
Chronic Absinthism: Convulsive attacks, with neuritis and terrifying
hallucinations. Also mentions lovely symptoms as intense pain in leg
muscles at night, inability to sleep, sometimes auditory hallucinations
that are menacing. Severe mental impairment.
Sorry he doesn't mention the doses. I would suggest you err on the side of
a weak tincture, and increase strength as you experment. I guess
convulsions are a good sign to back off on the stuff?
I expermented making beer out of Wormwood many years ago. I couldn't stand
the taste, but all my friends loved the "kick", one or two bottles and they
were blitzed.
Just be careful, just because it grows wild, doesn't make it safe.
wl-ski
a> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:59:03 -0500
a> Subject: Re: Absinthe from tincture
a> From: Tom Shaw <a000...@airmail.net>
a> slade or kay henson wrote:
>>
>> Why ... make absinthe? ... just in the news that a man died
drinking it? It's very
>> dangerous. ... is very potent.
>> In my opinion, I'd rather drink some Raid than absinthe.
Certainly, I wouldn't argue that it is very potent! ...compared with
"Raid"?
It is prudence (and a thought or two about how our behavior in
connection with herbs and our relationship with the rest of the
*world*!) that allows us to use herbs without the encrouchment of those
who would 'take care of us'. When we do things without considerstion,
(that are not benefial), we open ourselves up to proving those (who
say, "herbs are just not something people are able to safely..."
[which is the arguement that "conventional medicine" uses to
discourage the populace!] *right*! I, for one, *am* able to use good
sense, and find it down-right distasteful when those who have to learn
the hard way, give the rest of us a bad name, and bring down the wrath
of those who can make it difficult to get those things that keep me
from *having* to live on prescription meds. However, when we don't use
good judgement, this is precisely what we do.
Now, in all fairness to the one attempting the making of absinthe, I
have no idea *why*... it may be for exaulted reasons... (certainly
we've *heard* some of those here :), but not knowing, I can only be
hopeful that it will be used for practical, well-thought-out reasons,
and not something that will end up being on the 6 o'clock news, only to
be followed by a spot on the "senate hearings" as to way people need
protection from herbs ... (blah, blah, blah)!
Wormwood is not all bad, but it's limitations and cautions *should* be
heeded... if not for the one who would use it unwisely, then for those
of us left behind to deal with the ramifications of it's mis-use! It
fell out of favor for a reason! Pay attention...
a> Well I got shot down in flames ... a while back. The flamers
maintained that it
a> was all a big conspiracy...
And, you are going to be permanently impaired by *their* flameing?
(I'll still listen to you! :) (Pardon my humor... only attempting to
lighten the mood some...) They will say what they will*. they don't
want to see the situation for what it is, so don't worry what "they"
say. Those who would be abusive, will be... whether it is to you &
your thoughts, to absinthe, or to something else, because they only
want what *they* want, and don't care how their actions impact anything
else(!), so talk on... :) The truth *is* even herbalists felt it was
being mis-used! So...
a> I guess old Toulouse-Lautrec died from a more common disease which
you might
a> have gotten fooling around in the flesh-pots of Paris.
While this may have been true, I have a feeling it was the absinthe...
The absinthe may have spared him an even *more* lingering demise.
a> Never tread on the snake oil of the herbalists, to mix a metaphor
or whatever that
a> was. Tom Shaw
:) Very good! :) But, not necessarily so... either it stands the
test of time or it doesn't! I'm of the opinion that *this* one is not
to be abused!
cheers,
wls
sullivan, catherine
Liz Swanson wrote:
>
> STUART P. BEATON wrote:
> >
> > austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
> > : I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
> > : figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
> > : pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
> > : maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
> > : take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
> > : Thanks.
> > : Austin.
> >
> > massage oil. The article noted that many countries had banned the sale of
> > absinthe, but I guess you can get the essential ingredients, at least in
> > Canada? Or the question is: Is it the correct ingredient?
> >
> > But to your question, I would start at their theraputic use dosage: that way
> > you should be safe with up to three glasses a day. If it's too strong
> > to drink, reduce it! But I would be cautious about going stronger. A
> > triple dose once a day will probably have very different effects than
> > a regular dosage 3 times a day.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, what is it claimed to be theraputic for? And is it a
> > unregulated, unmonitored, possibly uncertain-quality-controlled 'dietary
> > supplement'?
> > Stuart
>
> Absinthe that requires 90 drops (drops are about 100 MICRO liters) per
> approx. 190 OUNCES of liquid such as alcohol. That's quite a dilution.
>
> I had a very severe and very scary reaction to some fresh
> wormwood-infused Aquavit a couple of years ago. I grow it in the garden
> where I have lots of it. There was a bottle of it next to my kitchen
> sink with a few mls. of it left, and I thought I'd take a sip before I
> threw it out. The next thing I know, my blood pressure dropped very
> suddenly, my pupils got huge and I started sweating and shaking. My
> heart was also pounding. I thought that I would pass-out. I threw water
> on my face and thought maybe calling 911 wouldn't be overeacting--by
> then I was OK, but quite shook-up. I don't know if it was an allergic
> reaction, but I don't really want to try it again to find out.
>
> --Liz
>
> --
> To Reply, remove "spamless-"
I have a friend who is interested in using an infusion of wormwood
rather than a tincture, for alleged psychedelic effects. Does anyone
know anything about the effectiveness and/or hazards of this?
Liz Swanson
Tom Shaw
bottle? You better watch out for that herbal stuff...it might be
dangerous to your health.
TS
James M Kocher
I've always heard that Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.
Lee Harrison
I used to enjoy a cup of wormwood tea although I can't remember why,
maybe for the bitter effect. I never experienced any ill effects.
Gentian's a better bitter anyway, especially with some valerian mixed
in. Why fool around with tinctures anyway?
Now that lobelia tea nearly took my head off...
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address
In article <342B10...@earthlink.net>,
"sullivan, catherine" <arro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
+Liz Swanson wrote:
+>
+> STUART P. BEATON wrote:
+> >
+> > austin...@utoronto.ca wrote:
+> > : I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
+> > : figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
+> > : pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
+> > : maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
+> > : take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
+> > : Thanks.
+> > : Austin.
+> >
+> > Interesting coincidence: I just read a couple days ago about somebody who
+> > killed themselves trying to make absinthe. Apparently he used wormwood
+> > massage oil. The article noted that many countries had banned the sale of
+> > absinthe, but I guess you can get the essential ingredients, at least in
+> > Canada? Or the question is: Is it the correct ingredient?
+> >
+> > But to your question, I would start at their theraputic use dosage: that way
+> > you should be safe with up to three glasses a day. If it's too strong
+> > to drink, reduce it! But I would be cautious about going stronger. A
+> > triple dose once a day will probably have very different effects than
+> > a regular dosage 3 times a day.
+> >
+> > Out of curiosity, what is it claimed to be theraputic for? And is it a
+> > unregulated, unmonitored, possibly uncertain-quality-controlled 'dietary
+> > supplement'?
+> > Stuart
+>
+> Pure oil of wormwood is quite poisonous. I have an old recipe for
+> Absinthe that requires 90 drops (drops are about 100 MICRO liters) per
+> approx. 190 OUNCES of liquid such as alcohol. That's quite a dilution.
+>
+> I had a very severe and very scary reaction to some fresh
+> wormwood-infused Aquavit a couple of years ago. I grow it in the garden
+> where I have lots of it. There was a bottle of it next to my kitchen
+> sink with a few mls. of it left, and I thought I'd take a sip before I
+> threw it out. The next thing I know, my blood pressure dropped very
+> suddenly, my pupils got huge and I started sweating and shaking. My
+> heart was also pounding. I thought that I would pass-out. I threw water
+> on my face and thought maybe calling 911 wouldn't be overeacting--by
+> then I was OK, but quite shook-up. I don't know if it was an allergic
+> reaction, but I don't really want to try it again to find out.
+>
+> --Liz
+>
+> --
+> To Reply, remove "spamless-"
+I have a friend who is interested in using an infusion of wormwood
+rather than a tincture, for alleged psychedelic effects. Does anyone
+know anything about the effectiveness and/or hazards of this?
Use some common sense, for heaven's sakes. After reading the two posts
just prior to yours, you still wonder about the hazards? Sheesh.
Read "Absinthe" [Arnold, Wilfred Niels] _Scientific_American_, June 1989.
It gives a clear explanation of the hazards involved. Any decent public
or university library should have a copy, or be able to obtain one.
-----------------
Douglas L. Miller
I apologize for the inconvenience, but the SPAMbots are getting smarter.
My email address is my initials with no dots, plus my last name, at the
domain netdirect dot net
dagon productions
Bill Crick (cr...@nortel.ca) wrote:: > : I'm trying to make absinthe from wormwood tincture, but can't
: > : figure out how much to use. Recipes say two spoonfulls of herb per
: > : pint, 4.4 mL essential oil per drink etc. My tincture is 1:2
: > : maceration, so I'd expect it to be pretty strong, but the bottle says to
: > : take 20 drops three times a day for "theraputic use". Any suggestions?
: > : Thanks.
: > : Austin.
: >
: > I don't believe that wormwood tincture has much of the active compound
: > that you are looking for from wormwood proper. Best to get some actual
: > wormwood herb and soak about an ounce in a pint of vodka... mix the
: > this mixture after it has sat for 3-6 months with pernod... tastes
: > like shit but does the job... and yes be careful of regular use
: > of absinthe... it is hepatitic... IOW it kills your liver.
: >
: > -douglas
: So let us know- what "job" does it do? What are the effects?
: Bill Crick
: Brewius, Ergo Beer
Well... basically the job is to get one "buzzed". My use of
the absinthe was as a sacrament for an INvocation of Chaos.
The alcohol in the absinthe acts as a excellent carrier of
and accelerator of the alkaloids in wormwood, which causes
the liver to release chemicals into one's system that are
similar to those caused by anger. I found that the alcohol
reduces inhibitions while the wormwood has a narcotic
effect on the body but not the mind... the body becomes
completely relaxed, esp. the spine while the portions of
the brain that effect cognitive thought remain relatively
active... though heavy ingestion of the mixtures alcoholic
content can also reverse this.
-douglas
Pierre Jelenc
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
> Read "Absinthe" [Arnold, Wilfred Niels] _Scientific_American_, June 1989.
> It gives a clear explanation of the hazards involved. Any decent public
> or university library should have a copy, or be able to obtain one.
Except that this infamous article is a stupendous example of falsehoods,
bad science, and no science at all. There is not one single double-blind
experiment, and the trials on rats (mice?) that were done later than in
utter prehistory concerned themselves with plying the poor critters with
humongous amounts of pure thujone. In those quantities such similar (they
are all simple terpenes), run-of-the-mill kitchen chemicals as menthol or
thymol do cause convulsions as well. Duh!
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
New York City | Home Office
Beer Guide | Records
http://www.nycbeer.org/ | http://www.web-ho.com/
Don Allen
On 28 Sep 1997 02:53:57 GMT, d.l.m...@inetdirect.net (Doug
Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address) wrote:
>In article <60jsdj$9...@panix2.panix.com>,
> rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
>+Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
>+> Read "Absinthe" [Arnold, Wilfred Niels] _Scientific_American_, June 1989.
>+> It gives a clear explanation of the hazards involved. Any decent public
>+> or university library should have a copy, or be able to obtain one.
>+
>+Except that this infamous article is a stupendous example of falsehoods,
>+bad science, and no science at all. There is not one single double-blind
>+experiment, and the trials on rats (mice?) that were done later than in
>+utter prehistory concerned themselves with plying the poor critters with
>+humongous amounts of pure thujone. In those quantities such similar (they
>+are all simple terpenes), run-of-the-mill kitchen chemicals as menthol or
>+thymol do cause convulsions as well. Duh!
>+
>And we're supposed to accept your opinion over those of the editors of
>a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Riiiiiight.
What's up with this? What do you see as opinion here? That the
conclusions were drawn from no double-blind studies, from antiquated
studies, and studies done with rodents at extremely large doses? That
commonly ingested related chemicals are similarly toxic? The only
opinion given was that it's bad science. As to that, well, anyone who
cares should read the article and evaluate it by their own criteria.
If she or he considers it good science, fine, bad science, fine. But,
to call it good/bad just because someone else does - be they an editor
or a usenet poster - is to be a fool and a sheep. This is my opinion,
and I don't give a rat's ass who accepts it.
Pierre Jelenc
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
> And we're supposed to accept your opinion over those of the editors of
> a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Riiiiiight.
Scientific American is _not_ a peer-reviewed scientific journal. It is
reasonably good, a Popular Mechanics or National Geographic maybe, but no
more; in this case it goofed, badly. Opinions have nothing to do with
this; either you have the data or you don't. With respect to absinthe
there are no good data, only a few, century-old anecdotes.
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address
In article <60jsdj$9...@panix2.panix.com>,
rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
+Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
+> Read "Absinthe" [Arnold, Wilfred Niels] _Scientific_American_, June 1989.
+> It gives a clear explanation of the hazards involved. Any decent public
+> or university library should have a copy, or be able to obtain one.
+
+Except that this infamous article is a stupendous example of falsehoods,
+bad science, and no science at all. There is not one single double-blind
+experiment, and the trials on rats (mice?) that were done later than in
+utter prehistory concerned themselves with plying the poor critters with
+humongous amounts of pure thujone. In those quantities such similar (they
+are all simple terpenes), run-of-the-mill kitchen chemicals as menthol or
+thymol do cause convulsions as well. Duh!
+
a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Riiiiiight.
-----------------
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address
In article <60m2nj$5...@panix2.panix.com>,
rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
+Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
+
+
+Scientific American is _not_ a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
Wrong.
It is
+reasonably good, a Popular Mechanics or National Geographic maybe, but no
+more; in this case it goofed, badly. Opinions have nothing to do with
+this; either you have the data or you don't. With respect to absinthe
+there are no good data, only a few, century-old anecdotes.
+
Obviously, your opinions differ from those of the *scientists* who wrote
the article. Their qualifications are described in the publication.
What are yours?
nych
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address wrote:
>
> In article <60m2nj$5...@panix2.panix.com>,
> rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
> +Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
> +
> +> And we're supposed to accept your opinion over those of the editors
>
> +reasonably good, a Popular Mechanics or National Geographic maybe, but no
> +more; in this case it goofed, badly. Opinions have nothing to do with
> +this; either you have the data or you don't. With respect to absinthe
> +there are no good data, only a few, century-old anecdotes.
> +
> Obviously, your opinions differ from those of the *scientists* who wrote
> the article. Their qualifications are described in the publication.
> What are yours?
Irrelevant. Politicians may be qualified to run a nation, but do they
do it? A scientist may be qualified to do his/her job correctly, but
find it easier to avoid "rocking the boat" by presenting new data. An
executive may be qualified to run a company, but may use his position to
personal advantage instead. Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you
WILL do it.
Also, some people who should know better have opinions which are
quite inconsistent with the facts at hand. Remember "Reefer Madness",
that (unintentionally) hilarious documentary that said marijuana could
addict with one hit and was GUARANTEED to ruin your life and kill you.
Some scientists actually believed this in the face of overwhelming
evidence that it was not THAT harmful. Failure to conduct research
properly is not excused by one's qualifications.
If a pilot with 20 years of training and experience crashes a plane
through his own errors, the passengers are just as dead. If
qualifications put someone above criticism by the less qualified, few
would be able to question their political leaders. How can someone base
conclusions on research that doesn't reflect the actual problem? If a
scientist were to feed a rat aspirin until it bled to death internally,
does that mean aspirin is a deadly poison?
Let's call a spade a spade, people. Bad science is bad science.
Lack of a double-blind study allows personal prejudice to affect the
results, because noone is COMPLETELY impartial. Feeding rats doses
thousands of times the normal level of consumption proves nothing except
that nearly any chemical is poisonous if enough is ingested. I don't
claim to know whether Absinthe is harmful. It may be, but let's see
some REAL research so there is something worthwhile to base an opinion
on.
Tom Shaw
Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>
> Chemical engineer, PhD in biochemistry, molecular biologist for the past
> 20 years, drinker of absinthe for 25 years, homebrewer for 10 years.
>
> Pierre
> --
>I think everybody is right and appeal to all who feel that absinthe is innocuous to drink as much as they can possibly hold ASAP. People who think otherwise should leave it alone. Silly tinkerers should take their chances. As for marijuana every pot head should try to make an infusion of mary jane in his wine to increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it and be sure to post the recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of arsenic are?
TS
wl-ski
d> Date: 28 Sep 1997 18:03:28 GMT
d> Subject: Re: Absinthe from tincture
d> From: d.l.m...@inetdirect.net (Doug Miller...see my sig for real
e-mail address)
d> (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
d> +Doug Miller... writes:
+>> And we're supposed to accept your opinion over those of the
+>> editors of a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Riiiiiight.
d> +
d> +Scientific American is _not_ a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
d> Wrong.
d> It is reasonably good, a Popular Mechanics or National Geographic
maybe,
d> but no more; in this case it goofed, badly. Opinions have nothing
to do with
d> this; either you have the data or you don't. With respect to
absinthe there are
d> no good data, only a few, century-old anecdotes. Obviously, your
opinions
d> differ from those of the *scientists* who wrote the article. Their
qualifications
d> are described in the publication. What are yours?
This sounds like a school yard squabble, which, I'm sure isn't the
intention...
There were reasons that absinthe fell out of use... as a social drink.
(Has anyone gone back in the "annals..." to read *why*? (Now, maybe it
got a bad rap due to a bad batch of brew made from some nasty stuff
that was contaminated for some reason, [who can say with *certainty*...
but do we just go, head-long, into a situation that we can *never* be
extricated from? Unless we learn from history, it is doomed to repeat
itself! (said some famous someone or some such...) Prudence dictates
that we exercise caution, or pay the price. It may seem like a harsh
way to learn, but some folks just don't want to take someone else's
word. My Mama *was* around when absinthe was being used freely. She
had some rather interesting things to offer about it... and one of them
was, *leave it alone*! Wormwood is a native wild plant in the
southeastern U.S., and I was forever picking it ... which she never
minded... however, I was taught *very* early on, to keep it away from
my mouth! She never said it was deadly poison(!), but she left no
question in my mind of the respect withwhich I should treat it... (and
there were other plants, as well). You see, we *did* use herbs...
wild crafted in those days, when things were simpler, cleaner... And
there were things that were used by only the *most*experienced of
hands.
I'm sure those handling these lines (and herbs, as well,) consider
themselves to be"qualified", however, I submit, that were this true,
the *questions* being exchanged *here* would not *be*! Many of those
who 'drank' the brew were only interested in the "buzz"... That is
*not* what my Grandmama would've considered prudent *or* responsible
use by a "qualified" ... (she *was* qualified! :) No matter, I'm
sure the arguement will rage on! And those who choose to find a "buzz"
will continue... and the rest of us who choose to use herbs for health
reasons will pay the price of their selfishness and naivety and *they*
will play into the hands of those who say that herbs are just too
dangerous in the hands of the general populace... in *some* cases, perha
ps they are correct! But then, so are automobiles!
cheers,
wl sakowski
Pierre Jelenc
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address <d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> writes:
> In article <60m2nj$5...@panix2.panix.com>,
> +Scientific American is _not_ a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
>
> Wrong.
What is wrong? It is not a scientific journal. It presents neither
original research (with experimental designs, actual data from the
experiments, and a thorough discussion) nor is it a reviews journal (in
which the literature is reviewed exhaustively and --as much as possible--
impartially).
> Obviously, your opinions differ from those of the *scientists* who wrote
Actually just one person, if I remember correctly (it's been many years),
and one whose qualifications were not especially overwhelming (again, from
memory).
> the article. Their qualifications are described in the publication.
> What are yours?
Chemical engineer, PhD in biochemistry, molecular biologist for the past
20 years, drinker of absinthe for 25 years, homebrewer for 10 years.
Pierre
--
Giolla Decair
previously Tom Shaw may have written article <C47ADB7AD3FBB0B0.FF0AA2B3...@library-proxy.airnews.net> saying:
>Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>> Chemical engineer, PhD in biochemistry, molecular biologist for the past
>> 20 years, drinker of absinthe for 25 years, homebrewer for 10 years.
>> Pierre
>> --
> innocuous to drink as much as they can possibly hold ASAP. People who
> think otherwise should leave it alone. Silly tinkerers should take their
> chances. As for marijuana every pot head should try to make an infusion of
> mary jane in his wine to increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it
> and be sure to post the recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of
> arsenic are?
do you drink water? What about tea, coffee cola ??
If so could you please drink as much water as you possibly can and
repeat a few times and then report on what happens to you.
Anything is dangerous if taken in the right quantities, or if you
react badly to them. If I drank as much beer/gin/vodka as I could
"possibly hold" I don't think I'd be that well, so what exactly is
your point if you indeed had one?
BTW it helps to press return every 75 characters or so
--
Giolla Decair ____
"Broken inside now our hearts lost forever \ _/__
Can't replace the fear or the thrill of the chase" \X /
"You can hide hide hide behind paranoid eyes" \/
Gerard Newham
Distribution:
: > -- : >I think everybody is right and appeal to all who feel that
absinthe is innocuous to drink as much as they can possibly hold ASAP.
People who think otherwise should leave it alone. Silly tinkerers should
take their chances. As for marijuana every pot
head should try to make an infusion of mary jane in his wine to
increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it and be sure to post the
recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of arsenic are?
: TS
What a well reasoned reply! Drinking "as much as you can hold" of
anything is not a test of whether it is innocuous or not. Vitamin E will
kill you in overdose. So will alcohol, and just about any other substance
you care to mention. Drink enough water and it will kill you. Should we
then class water as dangerous because it has toxic effects in excess? You
mention arsenic...I know nothing about arsenic personally, but I know that
strychnine can be used as a heart stimulant *in small doses*. Toxicity or
beneficiality is almost always a matter of dosage.
Keltic
LadyRhye
On Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:13:56 GMT, Gio...@bob.bofh.org (Giolla Decair)
wrote:
>previously Tom Shaw may have written article saying:
>> I think everybody is right and appeal to all who feel that absinthe is
>> innocuous to drink as much as they can possibly hold ASAP. People who
>> think otherwise should leave it alone. Silly tinkerers should take their
>> chances. As for marijuana every pot head should try to make an infusion of
>> mary jane in his wine to increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it
>> and be sure to post the recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of
>> arsenic are?
>
>If so could you please drink as much water as you possibly can and
>repeat a few times and then report on what happens to you.
>
>Anything is dangerous if taken in the right quantities, or if you
>react badly to them.
And adding to this, I believe it's been said often here and elsewhere
that the alcohol would either make you pass out/go into a coma/die
long before you ingested enough wormwood to do real harm. Think about
it--Absinthe (and Pernod) is 80-90 proof. That's the same as vodka,
whiskey, etc--a little on the high side, in fact, and you can really
only drink so much alcohol before you're in serious trouble.
All in all, I'd say the wormwood seems a bit safer/healthier than
alcohol, and less addictive, from what I hear. What a thought.
But then, what do I know? I listen to people who really drink the
stuff and use my head before I mouth off.
-LadyRhye- getting fed up with people who blindly believe puritan
myths. You might as well think that Reefer Madness was serious or
that you'll go blind if you wank.
That's all.
~*~Darling, I'm simply dripping with money--it may be vulgar, but it's Wonderful~*~ -Freddie Mercury
LRhye @ Primenet.com http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/1375
For custom patterns: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/MorpheusRemniscient
~*~GoAu5$Th5$AT5$ TGAnTg7]Jt[ PPeSaNi B8/15Bk\"2 cNr-P9 V7s M3p2wD
Z!! C7om a22= n7 b67F H171 g8T??90A m6Ea@Z6 w6T v4MR r3EISP p719Z5Me
De66!~ h6(PPeSaNiSc) sF6n SsYn k7Z N0192JFCOEBH]LM[ RnS LusAZ6~*~
**Remove spaces from email before replying**
Pierre Jelenc
LadyRhye <~lrhye~@~primenet.com~> writes:
> And adding to this, I believe it's been said often here and elsewhere
> that the alcohol would either make you pass out/go into a coma/die
> long before you ingested enough wormwood to do real harm. Think about
> it--Absinthe (and Pernod) is 80-90 proof.
That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
18th century England.
Thomas Jelonek
In article <34306ed8....@news.primenet.com>, ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye) writes:
|> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
|>
|> >That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
|> >proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
|> >18th century England.
|>
|> That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
|> on Pernod...." etc.
|>
Actually, it still is 140 proof. I purchased a bottle of absinth in Prague and it is
70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
Thomas
wl-ski
~> Sep 1997 12:23:00 -0700
~> Subject: Re: Absinthe from tincture
~> From: ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye)
>>Anything is dangerous if taken in the right quantities, or ifyou
react badly to them.
~> ...real harm. Think about it--Absinthe (and Pernod) is 80-90
proof. That's the same
~> as vodka, whiskey, etc--a little on the high side, in fact, and you
can really only drink
~> so much alcohol before you're in serious trouble.
~> All in all, I'd say the wormwood seems a bit safer/healthier than
alcohol, and less
~> addictive, from what I hear. What a thought.
Surely you don't measure the strength of the other ingredients of
Absinthe/Pernod/*any*alcoholic beverage(!) by it's alcohol content...
the *proof* is the strength of the alcohol... not the other
ingredients. If you laced vodka with rat poison, it would still be the
same *proof*. The question here is the *wise* use of something added
*to* alcohol!
*Caution* (according to Webster's)... prudent forethought to minimize
risk. That's all *I* say!
Death is a mighty far length to go for a "buzz". And permanent, as far
as *we* can tell...
cheers,
wl sakowski
wl-ski
k> Date: 29 Sep 1997 05:38:24 GMT
k> Subject: Re: Absinthe from tincture
k> From: kel...@zip.com.au (Gerard Newham)
: >> -- : >I think everybody is right and appeal to all who feel that
absinthe is
: >> innocuous to drink as much as they can possibly hold ASAP. People
who think
: >> otherwiseshould leave it alone. Silly tinkerers should take their
chances. As
: >> for marijuana every pot head should try to make an infusion of
mary jane in
: >> his wine to increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it and be
sure to post the
: >> recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of arsenic are? : TS
k> What a well reasoned reply! Drinking "as much as you can hold" of
anything is
k> not a test of whether it is innocuous or not.
.....much "overdose" material deleted.....
k> ... Toxicity or beneficiality is almost always a matter of dosage.
While this, certainly, is a true statement, it is also, fairly obvious
it wasn't his point.
Prudence is a word used in most all herbals... mine, at least.
cheers,
wlsakowski
LadyRhye
On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
>That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
>proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
>18th century England.
That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
on Pernod...." etc.
~*~Darling, I'm simply dripping with money--it may be vulgar, but it's Wonderful~*~ -Freddie Mercury
Tom Shaw
Thomas Jelonek wrote:
>
> In article <34306ed8....@news.primenet.com>, ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye) writes:
> |>
> |> >That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
> |> >proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
> |> >18th century England.
> |>
> |> That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
> |> on Pernod...." etc.
> |>
>
> 70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
> and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
> that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
>
contain any wormwood, and that is a legal restriction in France. Is
that not true?
TS
Giolla Decair
previously Tom Shaw may have written article <B69866A4E7416F21.0F3E11AC...@library-proxy.airnews.net> saying:
>Thomas Jelonek wrote:
>> In article <34306ed8....@news.primenet.com>, ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye) writes:
>> |> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
>> Actually, it still is 140 proof. I purchased a bottle of absinth in Prague and it is
>> 70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
>> and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
>> that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
>I have been under the impression that "today's" absinthe does not
>contain any wormwood, and that is a legal restriction in France. Is
>that not true?
I don't know about in France, but the bottle I bought in Prague
contains wormwood, and as it was on sale in the local supermarket ,
just next to the becher, I'd assume it was legal that way.
Daniel Juliano
Tom Shaw <a000...@airmail.net> writes:
>> Actually, it still is 140 proof. I purchased a bottle of absinth in Prague and it is
>> 70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
>> and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
>> that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
>I have been under the impression that "today's" absinthe does not
>contain any wormwood, and that is a legal restriction in France. Is
>that not true?
Yes, that is the legal restriction most places in the world. The lack
of wormwood is the primary reason Pernod doesn't taste like absinthe.
Pernod was a large producer of absinthe back when it was legal, and
when it was made illegal they came out with their "imitation absinthe"
that is similar but lower in alcohol and without the wormwood.
--
Daniel Juliano | Finger me for my
d...@starfire.ne.uiuc.edu | PGP Public Key
Giolla Decair
previously Thomas Jelonek may have written article <60prng$8...@Athena.McRCIM.McGill.EDU> saying:
>
>In article <34306ed8....@news.primenet.com>, ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye) writes:
>|> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
>|> >proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
>|> >18th century England.
>|> That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
>|> on Pernod...." etc.
>70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
Agreed on both counts the bottle I have from prague is also clearly
marked 70% by vol. And it didn't taste like pernod to me either.
>and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
>that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
I disagree here, I really like the smell and taste, very smooth and
very "moreish". Mind you as was recently pointed out to me my sense of
smooth for alchohol roughly considers sandpaper and parchment to be
the same.
Olde Phenoimian
PLEASE !!!!! Be extremely careful ... They banned this stuff for a reason !
It may not kill ya, but ya might wish you were dead !
Absinthe has been known to cause blindness and comas.
Chris Cunningham
> > Actually, it still is 140 proof. I purchased a bottle of absinth in
Prague and it is
> > 70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth
tastes
The liquor
> > that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
The stuff I bought didn't taste awful, not wonderful though.
I thought the nearest tasting stuff was Ouzo.
> >
> I have been under the impression that "today's" absinthe does not
> contain any wormwood, and that is a legal restriction in France. Is
> that not true?
> TS
>
It is illegal to make and/or sell Absinthe in France, although it's
perfectly
ok to do so in Spain. I bought a bottle a few months ago, but I'm not
convinced thats it's authentic. I compared a sample of Absinthe with Ouzo
using a RAMAN SPECTROMETER and there was little or no difference, we
certainly
did not find any Thujone which is the active part of wormwood.
Pierre Jelenc
Chris Cunningham <cunn...@perkin-elmer.com> writes:
> It is illegal to make and/or sell Absinthe in France, although it's
> perfectly
> ok to do so in Spain. I bought a bottle a few months ago, but I'm not
> convinced thats it's authentic. I compared a sample of Absinthe with Ouzo
> using a RAMAN SPECTROMETER and there was little or no difference, we
> certainly
> did not find any Thujone which is the active part of wormwood.
As I understand it (second and third hand) Spain stopped making real
absinthe when they applied to the Common Market; not that it was a formal
precondition, but to show them how nice they had become. Real absinthe is
available in Portugal, the Czech Republic and --possibly-- Slovakia.
Thomas Jelonek
In article <slrn63222i...@bob.bob.bofh.org>, Gio...@bob.bofh.org (Giolla Decair) writes:
|> previously Thomas Jelonek may have written article <60prng$8...@Athena.McRCIM.McGill.EDU> saying:
|> >
|> >In article <34306ed8....@news.primenet.com>, ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye) writes:
|> >|> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
|> >|> >That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
|> >|> >proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
|> >|> >18th century England.
|> >|> That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
|> >|> on Pernod...." etc.
|> >Actually, it still is 140 proof. I purchased a bottle of absinth in Prague and it is
|> >70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
|>
|> Agreed on both counts the bottle I have from prague is also clearly
|> marked 70% by vol. And it didn't taste like pernod to me either.
|>
|> >and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
|> >that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
|>
|> I disagree here, I really like the smell and taste, very smooth and
|> very "moreish". Mind you as was recently pointed out to me my sense of
|> smooth for alchohol roughly considers sandpaper and parchment to be
|> the same.
Well, to be honest my bottles did not last very long so I must have got quite accustomed
to the taste. I should also add that I really didn't have the patience to drink it with
little spoons of sugar. I just sort of guzzled it straight. The bitterness did grow on,
but I never did get wholly used to the initial smell when the bottled was opened.
Thomas
Bill Crick
I just asked what does it do? I'm sure people don't drink it
to induce blindness, or comas? What is the effect that is different
than 150 proof rum that it causes.
NOTE: Check the atribution on the article: I'm not trying to make it,
or plannign to drink it, I'm just curious on what it DOES?
BC
BES!
Daniel Juliano
Olde Phenoimian <rjdi...@cyberportal.net> writes:
>PLEASE !!!!! Be extremely careful ... They banned this stuff for a reason !
Yes, it's called puritanical hysteria.
>Absinthe has been known to cause blindness and comas.
You'd only go blind if you made it with methanol.
Any alcoholic beverage, from absinthe to beer, can cause comas and even
death if you drink too much of it.
Thomas Jelonek
In article <slrn63226g...@bob.bob.bofh.org>, Gio...@bob.bofh.org (Giolla Decair) writes:
|> previously Tom Shaw may have written article <B69866A4E7416F21.0F3E11AC...@library-proxy.airnews.net> saying:
|> >Thomas Jelonek wrote:
|> >> In article <34306ed8....@news.primenet.com>, ~lrhye~@~primenet.com~ (LadyRhye) writes:
|> >> |> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
|> [snip]
|> >> Actually, it still is 140 proof. I purchased a bottle of absinth in Prague and it is
|> >> 70% alcohol. Incidentally, absinth tastes nothing like pernod. Absinth tastes
|> >> and smells awful, though to be honest i actually got accustomed to it. The liquor
|> >> that it most resembles in terms of taste is grappa.
|> >I have been under the impression that "today's" absinthe does not
|> >contain any wormwood, and that is a legal restriction in France. Is
|> >that not true?
|>
|> I don't know about in France, but the bottle I bought in Prague
|> contains wormwood, and as it was on sale in the local supermarket ,
|> just next to the becher, I'd assume it was legal that way.
|>
Well, I purchased my abstinth in a supermarket in Hala Strana close to St. Stephen's bridge.
I assume it must be available in most supermarkets. My impression is that it is not exactly
legal, but rather that the government does not enforce the regulation.
Thomas
Richard J. Ogden
LadyRhye <~lrhye~@~primenet.com~> wrote in article
<3430003c....@news.primenet.com>...
...
> And adding to this, I believe it's been said often here and elsewhere
> that the alcohol would either make you pass out/go into a coma/die
> long before you ingested enough wormwood to do real harm. Think about
> it--Absinthe (and Pernod) is 80-90 proof. That's the same as vodka,
> whiskey, etc--a little on the high side, in fact, and you can really
> only drink so much alcohol before you're in serious trouble.
Hmmm.. I was under the impression that the danger from drinking Absinthe
was from LONG TERM effects, not from a single binge. Also, what about
possible synergistic effects? Like on those little bottles from the
pharmacy that say "Do not drink alcohol while taking this medication"?
There are a number of substances that are relatively safe or even innocuous
when taken alone that become potent or dangerous in combination.
Always remember, it's not dangerous to fall from high buildings, as long as
you don't land... ;-)
-RJO
Crocodile
Bill Crick <cr...@nortel.ca> wrote:
>I just asked what does it do? I'm sure people don't drink it
>to induce blindness, or comas? What is the effect that is different
>than 150 proof rum that it causes.
>NOTE: Check the atribution on the article: I'm not trying to make it,
>or plannign to drink it, I'm just curious on what it DOES?
It's mostly euphoric/narcotic. The euphoric phase is often experienced
together with motor stimulation, when it wears off the narcotic phase
takes over. With huge dosages of Absinthe acoustic hallucinations have
been reported.
I don't believe the Thujones are responsible for the toxicity (or
effects) of Absinthe but I'm more than confident this stuff _is_ toxic
(due to some unknown reason) even when no harmful additives like
Antimony or Methanol are added (this was often the case when Van Gogh
was among the living).
If you are not going to use it for any illegal purpose you can
purchase first-grade herba absinthii from:
www.worldnet.fr/~dagon/tac/ethno.htm
All the Best,
Mike
Tom Shaw
methyl alcohol to be used...in case somebody wants to duplicate the
stronger versions.
TS
pHarminatrix
> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
>
> >That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
> >proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
> >18th century England.
>
> That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
> on Pernod...." etc.
>
Absinthe, in its strict sense, is no longer widely available because its
other, and very significant active ingredient, is wormwood. Wormwood is a
highly toxic poison which causes, among other symptoms, blindness and
degenerating dementia. In addition, it was differentiated from mere
alcohol by effect and context; artists, writers, etc. gravitated to its
not unmentionable hallucinatory effects and to the small bohemian parlors
where consumption of such was fashionable.
"And when she's on a roll, she pulls a razor from her boot and a thousand
pigeons fall around her feet."
-Tom Waits
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ridgely Schantz * pet...@perspex.com * rsch...@vt.edu * Blacksburg, VA *
_______________________________________________________________________________
Pierre Jelenc
Giolla Decair <gio...@bob.bofh.org> writes:
> The active principle derived from the essential oil , absinthol, is
> thujon which has a structure comprable to canibinol. It is postulated
> that thujon and THC interact with a common reactor in the central
> nervous system.
The only common structural feature that they have is an isopropyl group.
Thujone is a simple C10 monoterpene with a bicyclo[0,1,3]hexane ring
structure. Cannabinol is a flat, tricyclic phenol with a n-pentyl side
chain. They are about as similar as a Picasso is to a Rembrandt.
Carlos Caponetti
Giolla Decair wrote:
>
> previously pHarminatrix may have written article <Pine.LNX.3.95.971005...@mail.perspex.com> saying:
> >> On 29 Sep 1997 17:32:57 -0400, rc...@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:
> >> >That's _today's_ absinthe. In the 19th century it was commonly 140-180
> >> >proof, and was the cheapest form of alcohol available, just as gin was in
> >> >18th century England.
> >> That's why I used the present tense. "Absinthe IS 80-90 proof based
> >> on Pernod...." etc.
> >Absinthe, in its strict sense, is no longer widely available because its
> >other, and very significant active ingredient, is wormwood. Wormwood is a
> >highly toxic poison which causes, among other symptoms, blindness and
>
> the bohemians was they used it habitually. According to Martindale
>
> "habitual use and large doses cause absinthism which is shown by
> restlessness comitting vertigo tremors and convulsions"
>
> The active principle derived from the essential oil , absinthol, is
> thujon which has a structure comprable to canibinol. It is postulated
> that thujon and THC interact with a common reactor in the central
> nervous system.
>
> substances in the following quantities:
>
> sage stuffing : 250mg/Kg
> bitters : 35mg/Kg
> alchoholic drinks: 10mg/Kg
> dry foods : .5mg/kg
>
> There is more thujon in both tansy and sage than there is in artemisia
> absinthium and it is considered safe for medicinal purposes to consume
> 2g of dried tansy 3 times daily.
>
> -------end of bits from martindale -----
>
> So whilst absinthe can be toxic given the quantities of the active
> ingrediant likely to be found in absinthe it is the habitual use and
> the very high alchohol content of absinthe that are the problem.
>
> --
> Giolla Decair ____
> "Broken inside now our hearts lost forever \ _/__
> Can't replace the fear or the thrill of the chase" \X /
> "You can hide hide hide behind paranoid eyes" \/
--
losers!
---
Arnaldo Carlos Caponetti
E-mail: capo...@satlink.com
Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA
Michael Snider
absintl
Bill Crick
Carlos Caponetti wrote >>>>AFTER QUOTING SEVERAL PAGES OF ARTICLES!!!!:
SNIP..........>> Previous posts snipped _TO SAVE BANDWIDTH_
> --
> losers!
> ---
> Arnaldo Carlos Caponetti
> E-mail: capo...@satlink.com
> Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA
Sort of makes you wonder doesn't it?
Arnaldo: Get yourself a mirror!
Look in it!
Read your contribution out loud while you do this!
BC
BES!
Eric Drake
Is there anyone in this discussion that HAS TRIED IT and (other than the
flavor) decided they didn't like it? If so, why?
Eric
--
My real address is drake.49 at postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu
Last time I posted a mesage without falsifying my E-mail address
I was subscribed to a listserver. I hate those Mother Spammers!
pHarminatrix
>
> -------end of bits from martindale -----
>
> So whilst absinthe can be toxic given the quantities of the active
> ingrediant likely to be found in absinthe it is the habitual use and
> the very high alchohol content of absinthe that are the problem.
>
> --
> Giolla Decair ____
Dear me....you are well-versed.
How might one acquire such a manual of pharmacognosci?
~R.
Giolla Decair
previously pHarminatrix may have written article <Pine.LNX.3.95.971008...@mail.perspex.com> saying:
>>
>> -------end of bits from martindale -----
>>
>> So whilst absinthe can be toxic given the quantities of the active
>> ingrediant likely to be found in absinthe it is the habitual use and
>> the very high alchohol content of absinthe that are the problem.
>>
>> --
>> Giolla Decair ____
>
>Dear me....you are well-versed.
One tries ones best.
>How might one acquire such a manual of pharmacognosci?
It helps if your mother's a pharmacist and your brother also works in
the pharmecutical trade. Martindale is publicly available, although
I'm not sure where, but is seriously on the uncheap side.
Marina Bokelman
Could you give the full bibliographical reference for Martindale?
Sounds like an invaluable reference. Perhaps I can find one through
the used book trade.
Giolla Decair
previously Crocodile may have written article <615725$6sh$2...@pacifica.access.ch> saying:
>Bill Crick <cr...@nortel.ca> wrote:
>>I just asked what does it do? I'm sure people don't drink it
>>to induce blindness, or comas? What is the effect that is different
>>than 150 proof rum that it causes.
>>NOTE: Check the atribution on the article: I'm not trying to make it,
>>or plannign to drink it, I'm just curious on what it DOES?
>It's mostly euphoric/narcotic. The euphoric phase is often experienced
>together with motor stimulation, when it wears off the narcotic phase
>takes over. With huge dosages of Absinthe acoustic hallucinations have
>been reported.
I don't suppose you have references for these reports, or what counts
as "huge doses" and what the ecipe and alchohol content of the
absinthe used was?
>I don't believe the Thujones are responsible for the toxicity (or
>effects) of Absinthe but I'm more than confident this stuff _is_ toxic
>(due to some unknown reason) even when no harmful additives like
Evidence for this belief? And on what is this belief based? Also do
you have any idea what this "unknown" cuase might be and out of
interest as you've not given any references for any of your claims
what are your qualifications in relation to this subject so that we
know how much weight to give to your claims. For the record I have no
relevant qualifications except access to a few good reference books.
[snip]
>If you are not going to use it for any illegal purpose you can
>purchase first-grade herba absinthii from:
>www.worldnet.fr/~dagon/tac/ethno.htm
Of course in the UK at least making absinthe isn't illegal.
CheezEase
<<<Of course in the UK at least making absinthe isn't illegal.
>>>
Really? I thought it was illegal everywhere except for Spain?
-Rev. MeO
Chris Cunningham
Giolla Decair <Gio...@bob.bofh.org> wrote in article > Of course in the UK
at least making absinthe isn't illegal.
As I understand it, true Absinthe is made by a series of distillations.
Distilling alcohol of any description without a license in the UK is
illegal, the Customs and excise people would like to know as well.
I recently read 'Absinthe, History in a bottle' Lots of arty pictures and
amusing stories.
Chris C
Wendy
LadyRhye wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:13:56 GMT, Gio...@bob.bofh.org (Giolla Decair)
> wrote:
> >previously Tom Shaw may have written article saying:
> >> I think everybody is right and appeal to all who feel that absinthe is
> >> innocuous to drink as much as they can possibly hold ASAP. People who
> >> think otherwise should leave it alone. Silly tinkerers should take their
> >> chances. As for marijuana every pot head should try to make an infusion of
> >> mary jane in his wine to increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it
> >> and be sure to post the recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of
> >> arsenic are?
Er... Tom?
As far as I know, the active ingredient in marijuana, tetrahydrocannibinol, is not water soluble, which
is why people make "butter" out of it and use it in cooking rather than drink it in a tea.
B*B
Wendy
xxxxx
Stigmata
In article <344710E5...@cybercafe.com.au>, gwen...@cybercafe.com.au
wrote:
LadyRhye wrote:
>> chances. As for marijuana every pot head should try to make an infusion
>> mary jane in his wine to increase the exhilerating effect of drinking it
>> and be sure to post the recipe. I wonder what the beneficial effects of
>> arsenic are?
>Er... Tom?
>
>As far as I know, the active ingredient in marijuana,
tetrahydrocannibinol, >is not water soluble, which is why people make
"butter" out of it and use it >in cooking rather than drink it in a tea.
Actually, in lieu of the arsenic comment, I think that s/he meant
something to the effect of "ye ignorant masses of narrowly
substance-defined 'individualism', may yer'
toxic-by-way-of-nearsighted-emulation ways be the death of ye -
owl-blasted (look this one up somtime) subcultural cannon-fodder, go fuck
yerselves." At least that's what I might have said (oh, wait, i did say
it) ...
Urban lore ... an intellectual refuge of the spineless (tm).
>B*B
>Wendy
>xxxxx
Battling*Banality ... [chip on shoulder: yes (x) no ( )]
slan,
--Matt
--
comes the light/comes the flame/comes the child who is/come the sword/come the flame/come the end of bliss's reign/come the dawn/come the day/wake the soft soul up/come the fire/come the change/come the rose of Venus shame/come the night/come the death/down the path out of ...SEVEN
----------------------(c) G.D./Unmanifest Productions-----------------------
joe
soluble, but it is alcohal soluble. Therefor it is possible to mix it
with your brewing. I have never actually tried it, but the Marijuanna
plant is closely related to the hops plant, and I'm sure you are aware
of the benefits of using hops. If I were a few years younger and not
married to an elementary school teacher I might have given it a try.
Oh well.
Joe
Giolla Decair
previously Chris Cunningham may have written article <01bcda3f$6e82ec40$99b974a7@ocs-p200-7> saying:
>Giolla Decair <Gio...@bob.bofh.org> wrote in article > Of course in the UK
>at least making absinthe isn't illegal.
>As I understand it, true Absinthe is made by a series of distillations.
>Distilling alcohol of any description without a license in the UK is
>illegal, the Customs and excise people would like to know as well.
True, making any distilled spirit without a license is illegal,
however that is different rom making the drink at all being illegal.
e.g.
It would be illegal for me to distill my own whisky
however it is not illegal to make whisky,
Spot the difference?
>I recently read 'Absinthe, History in a bottle' Lots of arty pictures and
>amusing stories.
Got a ref for that? Author/publisher/isbn?
Chris Cunningham
Giolla Decair <Gio...@bob.bofh.org> wrote in article
<slrn64kbbs...@bob.bob.bofh.org>...
>
> >I recently read 'Absinthe, History in a bottle' Lots of arty pictures
and
> >amusing stories.
>
> Got a ref for that? Author/publisher/isbn?
Sure have:
Title Absinthe, history in a bottle
Author Barnaby Conrad 111
Publisher Chronicle Books, San Francisco
ISBN 0-8118-1650-8
Inside the front cover it mentions they have a web site at
http://www.chronbooks.com
I paid it a visit, but couldn't find a reference to this book. My copy
is only about 6 months old and my local bookstore had no trouble
getting hold of it.
Chris C
Giolla Decair
previously Chris Cunningham may have written article <01bce058$76898880$99b974a7@ocs-p200-7> saying:
>Giolla Decair <Gio...@bob.bofh.org> wrote in article
><slrn64kbbs...@bob.bob.bofh.org>...
>> >I recently read 'Absinthe, History in a bottle' Lots of arty pictures
>and
>> >amusing stories.
>> Got a ref for that? Author/publisher/isbn?
>Sure have:
>I paid it a visit, but couldn't find a reference to this book. My copy
>is only about 6 months old and my local bookstore had no trouble
>getting hold of it.
Excellent, ta muchly.
Now a book hunting I shall go and hopefully avoid foyles.