Recording the back of my scanner ... weird voices

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FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 3:55:45 PM8/14/06
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I turned my scanner onto a particular "dead" frequency (actually, it
doesn't matter which frequency - every one I tried produced the same
results) and of course heard nothing but static (and of course the
squelch was 1 or 2 because anything higher would mute out the sound).

I then plugged my IC recorder (digital voice recorder) into the back of
the scanner and pressed record. I uploaded the recording to my computer
with Adobe Audition and amplified the sound, and could hear human
voices (this was confirmed by various witnesses) saying things that
would have me in doubt that I was picking up a stray broadcast. Words
were used like "ghosts", "spirit", the "n" word, along with meaningless
dribble and weird animal sounds. This was in the same back bedroom
where I set up my RF signal generator, scanner, and other recording
equipment to mimic the 70s Spiricom "Mark IV" experiment.

My question is this: can a digital recorder pick up voices through a
frequency if plugged into the back of the scanner (of human origin)
that cannot be heard through the scanner's speaker? The same recording
was done of the room with the white noise of the dead frequency in the
background and entirely different results were produced, with the
voices sounding less monotone and more like others were in the room
talking.

Of course, it doesn't help that I was doing paranormal research using
the digital recorder at a desolated black cemetery in town here and
abruptly stopped to focus on 2-way communication as opposed to EVPs.

Any way to easily explain away the voices that show up on the recording
of the static/frequency but not the static/frequency itself when
listened to in real-time?

Rastis P. Buttsnort

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Aug 14, 2006, 4:47:05 PM8/14/06
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<FLjef...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1155585345....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If this is not an attempt at trolling.........

All that's happening is a simple case of "Rectification". You are hearing
one or more AM broadcast stations. This is nothing new.
Unless of course you really WANT to believe this is something it's not.....

Bob

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Aug 14, 2006, 5:14:00 PM8/14/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:


> Any way to easily explain away the voices that show up on the recording
> of the static/frequency but not the static/frequency itself when
> listened to in real-time?

Your digital audio recorder is receiving weakly) a number of AM stations.
It's /not/ magic - it's just rectification!

Bob

--
Everything gets easier with practice, except getting up in the morning!

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 7:34:43 PM8/14/06
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Rastis P. Buttsnort wrote:

> All that's happening is a simple case of "Rectification". You are hearing
> one or more AM broadcast stations. This is nothing new.
> Unless of course you really WANT to believe this is something it's not.....

If this was rectification of AM stations, then why:

- No music, advertising, or anything else shows up, but yet
- Sometimes clear voices are heard saying vulgar words which would
never be allowed on any AM station, and
- Sometimes prophetic statements are made using my own name and the
name of other witnesses present or deeply involved in the experiments,
and
- In one instance I heard what sounded like several loud chickens
bocking at such a large volume it would've surely been heard at room
volume (incidently, these loud "animal-like" sounds always appear
toward the end of the recording, shortly before I hit "stop" - but yet
there is no interference with the audio plug or movement by myself
before stopping the recording, yet they are often a hallmark of the
brief mostly 30-second recordings I do)?

To one extreme I heard a death threat used against one of my
co-workers. To the other I heard statements like "you did not work
today" (which I hadn't) and "no mouse pad" (which I use none).

Overall, if you count the digital recordings from the cemetery (where
no white noise was present except for the internal components of the
rather silent recorder), the house, and plugged directly into the back
of the scanner, I've stored thousands of unexplained voices - and it
would've been impossible for the scanner to pick up AM stations in the
cemetery (and along with the fact that most all the voices sounded had
thick country accents and sounded African-American in nature with poor
grammar, I find the odds of this being rectification far-fetched).

A group of friends and I were so intrigued with some of the voices from
the cemetery, we made a CD which had some of our best recordings and
submitted it at work and to other people with a brief survey for the
listener to circle either AGREE, DISAGREE, or UNDECIDED as to whether
they heard the same voice and believed it was saying the same thing as
we did. And of course, several EVPs (electronic voice phenomenon) had
an agreement rate of over 95% of nearly 30 people.

I am not debating the existence of EVPs using a recorder and a source
of white noise, TV static, etc., for the conduit. I am asking you for a
plausible explanation that would explain voices saying your name,
sometimes vulgar words, etc., with such clarity that witnesses all
agree on what is being said but have no explanation as to how or why
they are showing up on a recording of of a frequency with nothing
audible on it when not recording.

And one last thought... how could such clear voices and sounds
(sometimes very loud in nature but yet inaudible while not being
recorded) be showing up on *any* frequency with a squelch level of only
1 or 2? I thought perhaps the audio cable to the recorder acted like
some sort of antenna but in reality it's not even hooked into the
external antenna jack.

Anyway, I'd rather at times believe there *are no* spirits that
followed me back, which is why I'm trying one last time to come to a
plausible conclusion which would explain away the voices which have
been picked up on tape, recorded, and catalogued for the record.

Thank you for helping to solve this mystery...

Jeff

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 7:43:18 PM8/14/06
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cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> I once heard someone on c to c (the coast to coast KOOK show) say they
> put a new cassette tape in a cassette recorder and with no body in the
> room or nearby and no radio or tv turned on,he picked up some human
> voices on his tape recorder.Of course I dont believe that hogwash.
> cuhulin

EVP experiments have been quite substantiated in laboratory settings.
Before dismissing something as "hogwash" why don't you try for
yourself? Simply make a 30-second recording with preferably a digital
recorder (that way you don't try to explain away the voices by thinking
the cassette tape was previously recorded on or the magnetic silica
that make up the tape are somehow picking up stray radio broadcasts)
and ask some simple questions.

It's best to do it with a small bit of white noise in the background -
if you're worried about rectification from your scanner or radio, try a
TV station full of static with the antenna unplugged, or a ceiling fan,
etc. Then upload the recording and amplify the sound a little
(amplification in no way alters the recording, only makes the voices
easier to decipher).

We've picked up so many EVPs that EVP itself is now boring and a
dead-end of sorts. Hence the need to set up apparatus for 2-way radio
communication using tones being sent to various frequencies (the
original Spiricom experment used 29.570 MHz), then waiting for days,
months, or even years until you get that first contact. It's more about
patience than believing, because once you do pick up the voices, you
will certainly question the reality you live in.

Jeff

PS The Panasonic RR-DR60 recorder was yanked from the market because of
consumer complaints about unexplained voices showing up during business
meetings, etc. It became the Holy Grail of EVP recorders, and recently
had a bid of $1100 for a used recorder on eBay.

It retailed for $40.

Slow Code

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Aug 14, 2006, 7:43:49 PM8/14/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote in
news:1155585345....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:


Some have said it's Rectification, but what I think you are really
experiencing is something known as Rectum-ification.

Rectumification is thinking you can hear something when you have your head
up your ass.

Now, go tell your friends at alt.fan.art.bell the good news.


Happy to Help.

Sc

Jim Hackett

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Aug 14, 2006, 7:44:51 PM8/14/06
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I thought chickens "clucked", not "bucked"...

<FLjef...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1155598483.2...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 7:59:49 PM8/14/06
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Jim Hackett wrote:
> I thought chickens "clucked", not "bucked"...

Sorry, I was thinking of the slang term ("bok, bok") for the odd sounds
they make. To tell you the truth, I'm not much of a chicken fan -
either living, dead and cooked, or ghost chicken. :)

One Hung Low

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Aug 14, 2006, 8:15:36 PM8/14/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
>> I once heard someone on c to c (the coast to coast KOOK show) say they
>> put a new cassette tape in a cassette recorder and with no body in the
>> room or nearby and no radio or tv turned on,he picked up some human
>> voices on his tape recorder.Of course I dont believe that hogwash.
>> cuhulin
>
> Simply make a 30-second recording with preferably a digital
> recorder (that way you don't try to explain away the voices by thinking
> the cassette tape was previously recorded on or the magnetic silica
> that make up the tape are somehow picking up stray radio broadcasts)

First, I believe you mean the magnetic iron oxide, not silica, which is
sand. You would have to have a STRONG modulated -magnetic- field to
inadvertently pick up "mysterious" voices.

Finally, what makes you think a digital recorder is immune to
rectification? -EACH- IC (Integrated Circuit chip) in the digital
recorder contains hundreds of P-N junctions which ARE rectifiers and
thus susceptible to unwanted rectification of RF fields.

Bottom line: a digital recorder is equally or -more- likely to pick up a
stray RF field than a analog tape recorder.

>
> PS The Panasonic RR-DR60 recorder was yanked from the market because of
> consumer complaints about unexplained voices showing up during business
> meetings, etc. It became the Holy Grail of EVP recorders, and recently
> had a bid of $1100 for a used recorder on eBay.
> It retailed for $40.

Which proves nothing except that

a) the Panasonic design weenie was not cognizant of standard RFI
mitigation techniques.

b) P.T. Barnum was right! There is indeed a sucker born every minute.

As a seller, ya gotta love eBay!

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 8:45:01 PM8/14/06
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Jim wrote:
> explanation is this, your brain is constantly comparing every visual
> stimuli with its gallery of known objects. this is how you recognise
> peoples faces or different objects. the sparkles on the screen have
> every pixel flashing and your brain is trying to make recognizable
> patterns.

I agree fully with what you are saying. It's the same way people claim
to see faces in smoke, clouds, etc. However, the way ITC (instrumental
transcommunication, in which EVP is only one subcategory of) works is
not trying to make patterns out of TV snow or even recording the static
with a VCR, but:

- Putting the TV on the Auxilliary channel so the channel is blank on
most TV sets,
- Hooking the RCA plugs of a video camera up to the TV, and
- Pointing the camera at the screen (so you're essentially recording
into infinity - the camera is hooked up to the TV but yet is recording
a picture into a picture into a picture)
- Recording what is picked up and playing it back, then freezing it
*frame-by-frame*

If this is done with patience and the right equipment, rather defined
human faces will show up for many people. Take a look at a few here:

http://inicia.es/de/luisfountain/itc_1.htm

As you can see, it's not the same as simply recording TV static and
playing it back - sure, you'll see patterns and probably faces, but
it'll not be exactly the same concept of video ITC.

when a pattern is detected the memory of the object rises up
> to be considered. by this time the random sparkles have changed, thus
> the object or face rises to your mind then evaporates as another pattern
> is struggling to be resolved. in your minds eye the face has zoomed up
> out of the static and then zoomed away. the audio seems to be the same
> thing, words resolve out of the hiss and then are lost forever.

As far as words being taken out of TV static or other white noise, I
fully understand where you are coming from. That's why it's best to use
a recorder and have witnesses listen to the tape at the same time as
you. Often times a voice will be so clear, far above the sound level
and static of the white noise, that everyone will hear it and instantly
agree on what it is saying. If you visit the cemetery often enough
trying to communicate with spirits, you're going to get some that
follow you home.

Initially (before doing research at the cemetery, which was dilapidated
and many graves had no marker, only a mound of dirt, and had been
vandalized several times in the past with crypts being broken into, and
so on) I could get no voices on my recordings that I did in my own
house - and I even used white noise for the background. Now I can pick
up loud voices with NO white noise in the background. On a few
disturbing occassions, the recorder itself seemed to be temporarily
altered and the voices were yelling in threatening tones.

What makes me almost certain this is not hearing imaginary voices in
static is that the voices are sometimes 5x the volume level of the
white noise, and when they show up on the recording so you can play
back, get other peoples' intentions, and save on the computer, then the
brain-pattern-imagery theory falls apart. The only other *logical*
explanation is a stray signal (remember, no antenna is used and you can
even use a ceiling fan) or someone in the room talking (which you'd
surely notice while doing the recording).

Next time you're lying in bed trying to sleep and you have the air
conditioning on or the ceiling fan on and think you hear something
being said, it is not necessarily your imagination. An easy way to
confirm whether there truly was a voice is to make a recording. If your
house is old you may be picking up EVPs (or video ITC if you try it) in
no time. If your house is relatively new, you probably won't hear much
unless you really put time and dedication into receiving results, or
start going to disturbed cemeteries and basically invite spirits (and
most likely trouble) back into your home by simply doing EVP recordings
at the cemetery.

This I don't recommend unless you are ready to be scared out of your
mind. And once that happens, it won't be nearly as easy explaining
things away by brain/pattern theories and AM rectification as it is
now, considering most of you have no experience with the process of
ITC/EVP.

the best
> part is psychological, you seem to recognise the word or picture but
> since it has gone away now you cant prove that it was never there to
> begin with! soon you are on the art bell show with a great story that
> you really do believe and nobody can disprove! great fun!

Explaining something away by logic to the satisfaction of those who
have no experience with the phenomenon is an easy way for people to
dismiss this research. That is why I give an open invitation for anyone
with a little time and the access to a digital recorder and computer
with shareware sound software to go ahead and try it.

Jeff

Side note: Since we constructed the machine in my back bedroom, I have
recently put up a surveillance camera with its own microphone and fed
the cable to the TV in the living room, so I can see what happens in
the room while nobody is in there. Orbs, or bright white spheres have
been witnessed and many times zoom up in the air in a curving motion,
opposite the way dust might settle (no a/c was on and no insects were
in the room after inspection). I recently bought a VCR to record myself
tinkering with the device and for the first time on the tape heard my
name "Jeffffrey" being spoken through the microphone and onto the TV's
sound. This was the only voice uncovered before I became filled with
fear and turned off the recording, but the voice was far above the
room's background sound level. This never occurred before by just
listening to the audio with others. It only occurred after the sound
was recorded, so now it appears that almost any microphone will pick up
EVPs from that room.

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 9:08:23 PM8/14/06
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One Hung Low wrote:

> First, I believe you mean the magnetic iron oxide, not silica, which is
> sand. You would have to have a STRONG modulated -magnetic- field to
> inadvertently pick up "mysterious" voices.
>
> Finally, what makes you think a digital recorder is immune to
> rectification? -EACH- IC (Integrated Circuit chip) in the digital
> recorder contains hundreds of P-N junctions which ARE rectifiers and
> thus susceptible to unwanted rectification of RF fields.
>
> Bottom line: a digital recorder is equally or -more- likely to pick up a
> stray RF field than a analog tape recorder.

Then I have one question and one assumption: Is there a way of making a
recording of the environment without the possibility of rectification?
And... a leading theory in EVP is: "EVP is considered to be radio
frequency signals that inadvertently find their way into your
recordings by way of cross-modulation, atmospheric refraction or
indirect rectification. Many paranormal investigators feel that these
voices or signals are somehow connected to ghosts."

Let's say for the sake of debate that some voices using the EVP process
are genuinely otherworldly or from another dimension. They have to show
up on our recording apparatus somehow, and I guess the leading theory
is that this is through RF signals. The question of "how" is beyond my
league. I simply deal with results, and the results

- Contain language, complete first-and-last names of myself and others
who are involved in this research, prophetic messages, etc., that would
never be broadcast on any AM or other radio station.
- The phrases are often times speeded up during certain words, as if
the message is trying to be purposely fit into a short time. Some EVPs
are so fast that you have to slow down the speech to understand it.
- I can pick up louder and more clear words (actually sounding like
they're coming from vocal chords) without *any* background sound or
white noise, as opposed to the relatively weaker and more monotone
voices picked up from the scanner, using the *same* recorder in the
same setting during the same atmospheric events (weather, solar flares)
- Some voices are so loud and clear that it would be highly improbable
for someone doing a simple recording to explain away by a stray radio
signal, unless it's coming from another dimension.

If you would try EVP for yourself and judge the voices you capture on
an objective, one-by-one basis, instead of dismissing every voice
anyone has ever picked up as having no chance of being paranormal in
nature, you might question more the world around you. It just so
happens that EVP is the best way to get evidence of that world.

> >
> > PS The Panasonic RR-DR60 recorder was yanked from the market because of
> > consumer complaints about unexplained voices showing up during business
> > meetings, etc. It became the Holy Grail of EVP recorders, and recently
> > had a bid of $1100 for a used recorder on eBay.
> > It retailed for $40.
>
> Which proves nothing except that
>
> a) the Panasonic design weenie was not cognizant of standard RFI
> mitigation techniques.

If that is why the recorder was so good for EVP, then someone could
easily alter another recorder or build their own and sell it as an EVP
recorder and make a considerable amount of money, considering the
public's interest has skyrocketed.

> b) P.T. Barnum was right! There is indeed a sucker born every minute.
>
> As a seller, ya gotta love eBay!

I have another explanation: People in today's society are lazy and want
to take the easiest route to accomplish something - if there was a
"holy grail" of EVP recorders, people would buy it instead of spending
time working from the ground up with a standard recorder. Sure, my
recorder didn't even pick up voices at first. Then gradually some
voices were picked up. Now I can't do a 30-second session without
sometimes dozens of voices showing up, speaking over top each other,
without any white noise. And that seems to correlate with my own
travels to cemeteries and the building of a machine to communicate with
other dimensions.

If you were a spirit and had a message to convey, you'd probably
gravitate toward someone who was spending time trying to open up the
door to communication.

EVP research (it's research because it can't easily be explained away
by those who were skeptical at first but did their own investigation of
the phenomenon) takes patience, an open mind, and no particular belief
system starting out. But it's not recommended for everybody. In fact, I
took the easy way out by trying to visit places in hopes something
would follow me back. Now it has, and I can pick it up anytime I want
to.

Jeff

m II

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Aug 14, 2006, 9:09:03 PM8/14/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> I'm not much of a chicken fan -
> either living, dead and cooked, or ghost chicken. :)


Guess you've never experienced Poultrygeist....

mike

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

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Aug 14, 2006, 9:11:40 PM8/14/06
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lol... nor would I want to. Though I'm sure it's not nearly as scary as
Coultergeist.

dxAce

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Aug 14, 2006, 9:25:40 PM8/14/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

You're a f00kin k00k.

dxAce
Michigan
USA


Kevin Garrett

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Aug 14, 2006, 9:38:27 PM8/14/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote in
news:1155602701.2...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Jim is exactly correct. I see absolutley nothing in those pictures at
the link you posted. You are seeing your minds attempt to make sense
out of nonsense. You clearly very much WANT to believe. But if one has
to WANT to believe then it is not true.

On the bright side, I'm sure that others WANT to believe too and if you can
find enough of them you could start a new lucrative religion.

Kevin

Kevin Garrett

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Aug 14, 2006, 9:40:44 PM8/14/06
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m II <c...@in.the.hat> wrote in news:P89Eg.4328$395.4125@edtnps90:

Ha Ha Ha. Now that made me laugh!

Al Smith

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Aug 15, 2006, 1:00:03 AM8/15/06
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> We've picked up so many EVPs that EVP itself is now boring and a
> dead-end of sorts. Hence the need to set up apparatus for 2-way radio
> communication using tones being sent to various frequencies (the
> original Spiricom experment used 29.570 MHz), then waiting for days,
> months, or even years until you get that first contact. It's more about
> patience than believing, because once you do pick up the voices, you
> will certainly question the reality you live in.
>
> Jeff


So, why do you think spirits use the radio?

Amber LaStrega

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Aug 15, 2006, 4:20:04 AM8/15/06
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I'd never eat a cooked bird in a slim black dress ... but that's just
me.

Jeff, are you in St. Augustine?

*shrug* Just curious.

D E Fault

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Aug 15, 2006, 8:38:32 AM8/15/06
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That's a great experiment, especially when taken as part of the body of
work that has been done since the earliest days of audio recording.

What I think this shows, and quite conclusively, is that human
interpretation of random noise, especially when coupled with the power of
suggestion, is consistent across all tested recording methodologies.

Similar experiences have been reported using wire recorders in the 40s,
reel to reel tape and cassette recorders in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s,
and digital recording technologies in the 90s and to the present. All
that's required is an imperfect audio delivery to the recording medium
resulting in any form of random noise.

One of the most consistent aspects of these reports is the remarkable
personal relevance of the perceived content of the recordings. Hmmm :-)

One way to verify the internal, rather than external sources of these
messages is to play the same recording for different people and give
different suggestions. Tell one subject you heard one particular
message, tell another subject you heard a completely different message,
and note the results :-)

One of the most delightful aspects of these auditory hallucinations is
the intensity of the perception of the reality of the messages perceived.
Like seeing faces in clouds, the human mind seeks to find order in
chaotic data, and the more chaotic the data, the more urgently the mind
seeks to order that data. This urgency to order data adds to the sense
of certainty that a hallucination is "real."

I would say that the reason for the differences in perceived messages,
depending on recording techniques, have to do with the audio bandwidth of
the random noise being recorded. Your observations in that regard are
quite interesting and might show that the spectrum of the radom noise
recorded has an effect on a subject's interpretation of it.

The perception of the random noise recorded using the scanner connection
was likely influenced by the narrow audio bandwidth of the audio section
of a typical scanner (3000 - 5000 Khz - near the center on human speech
audio frequencies, for obvious technical reasons) resulting in the
perception of "monotone," or lacking in frequency variation, "voices."

Conversely, white noise, by definition, includes frequencies from across
the auditory spectrum of 20 Hz to 20Khz, and gives the mind much more to
work with

Have fun with it, like the so-called "reverse speech" hallucinations made
popular on Art Bell's radio show, auditory hallucinations are a lot of
fun and the human mind is a delightful play thing.

Folks well versed in what are called "cold reading" skills (the ability
to quickly determine what a person wnats to hear and then providing
exactly that) have even earned money with this very phenomenon, calling
this "ghost voices" or what ever else fits into the needs of their marks.

Is it real? Of couse it is - to you :-)

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote in news:1155585345.391765.92750
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

One Hung Low

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Aug 15, 2006, 12:22:56 PM8/15/06
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FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> One Hung Low wrote:
>
>> First, I believe you mean the magnetic iron oxide, not silica, which is
>> sand. You would have to have a STRONG modulated -magnetic- field to
>> inadvertently pick up "mysterious" voices.
>>
>> Finally, what makes you think a digital recorder is immune to
>> rectification? -EACH- IC (Integrated Circuit chip) in the digital
>> recorder contains hundreds of P-N junctions which ARE rectifiers and
>> thus susceptible to unwanted rectification of RF fields.
>>
>> Bottom line: a digital recorder is equally or -more- likely to pick up a
>> stray RF field than a analog tape recorder.
>
> Then I have one question and one assumption: Is there a way of making a
> recording of the environment without the possibility of rectification?

Jeff, this is sort of a bogus question. Several times throughout this
epistle, you seem locked in on RF. If you truly believe that (RF that
is), then yes, you DO need rectification of the RF signal to recover the
audio modulation.

> And... a leading theory in EVP is: "EVP is considered to be radio
> frequency signals

so, if it's "radio frequency" signals, why use a tape recorder which is
designed to capture AUDIO frequency signals?

> that inadvertently find their way into your
> recordings by way of cross-modulation, atmospheric refraction

atmospheric refraction is meaningless in this context. Just being used
as a pseudo-science buzz word. If a ghost wanted to talk to you, why
would he (she?) have to bother bouncing it off the ionosphere?

> or indirect rectification.

I believe the appropriate term here (and as used by the FCC) is
"incidental", not indirect. Again, this relates to the poor design of
the device in question and why the FCC calls such a case an "incidental"
receiver.

> Many paranormal investigators feel that these
> voices or signals are somehow connected to ghosts."

"feelings" don't have much place in science.

> Let's say for the sake of debate that some voices using the EVP process
> are genuinely otherworldly or from another dimension.

"Other dimension"? More buzz words. How is a tape recorder or radio
receiver going to cross "dimensions"? If you are seeing or hearing
something, it is -obviously- already in *our* "dimension".

> They have to show
> up on our recording apparatus somehow,

Why? Says who? They may show up, but they don't "have to".

> and I guess the leading theory
> is that this is through RF signals.

Again, if you truly believe it is RF, why in the heck are you trying to
use an AF device (voice recorder) to capture an RF signal???

>
> If you would try EVP for yourself and judge the voices you capture on
> an objective, one-by-one basis, instead of dismissing every voice
> anyone has ever picked up as having no chance of being paranormal in
> nature, you might question more the world around you.

I question the moronic politicians of this world on a daily basis...

> It just so
> happens that EVP is the best way to get evidence of that world.

Says who? What ever happened to good old tin trumpets, table tipping and
ectoplasm??? Must not be high-tech enough. Even spook chasing seems to
have "gone digital". :-)

>>> PS The Panasonic RR-DR60 recorder was yanked from the market because of
>>> consumer complaints about unexplained voices showing up during business
>>> meetings, etc. It became the Holy Grail of EVP recorders, and recently
>>> had a bid of $1100 for a used recorder on eBay.
>>> It retailed for $40.
>> Which proves nothing except that
>>
>> a) the Panasonic design weenie was not cognizant of standard RFI
>> mitigation techniques.
>
> If that is why the recorder was so good for EVP, then someone could
> easily alter another recorder or build their own and sell it as an EVP
> recorder and make a considerable amount of money,

Probably so, again there is one born every minute.

> considering the public's interest has skyrocketed.

Now, THAT'S scary. More pseudo-science and outright quackery. Just what
we need--another "Dark Ages".

>> b) P.T. Barnum was right! There is indeed a sucker born every minute.
>>
>> As a seller, ya gotta love eBay!
>
> I have another explanation: People in today's society are lazy and want
> to take the easiest route to accomplish something - if there was a
> "holy grail" of EVP recorders, people would buy it instead of spending
> time working from the ground up with a standard recorder.

Huh? "Working from the ground up"? I truly do not understand what you
are trying to convey here. Are you saying it (their tape recorder) won't
work on Monday, will work a little bit on Tuesday and will get all kinds
of voices on Wednesday? If so, what would change in the hardware? What
would, hardware-wise, be different in the "holy grail" model that would
cause it to work all the time?

> Sure, my
> recorder didn't even pick up voices at first. Then gradually some
> voices were picked up. Now I can't do a 30-second session without
> sometimes dozens of voices showing up, speaking over top each other,
> without any white noise. And that seems to correlate with my own
> travels to cemeteries and the building of a machine to communicate with
> other dimensions.
>
> If you were a spirit and had a message to convey, you'd probably
> gravitate toward someone who was spending time trying to open up the
> door to communication.

A big stretch in the first place, but even by your own description
above, it would have to do with the -person-, NOT the model of tape
recorder they were using, "holy grail" version or otherwise.

Sadly, critical thinking is becoming a vanishing commodity in the 21st
century... :-(

One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 3:52:04 PM8/15/06
to
Just some final thoughts:

IF there -were- ghosts...

...why would they just say random words for everyone to hear? Just 'cuz
they're dead doesn't (necessarily) mean that they are stupid.

Finally, if they are smart enough to create an RF signal and smart
enough to modulate that signal, wouldn't they be smart enough to figure
out how to just simply whisper an actual message (not random jibber
jabber) into the ear of the intended recipient?

Sorry, but your whole concept seems flawed.

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 6:23:28 PM8/15/06
to
Your explanations sound good in theory, but do not explain how some
EVPs show up so loud that they are not just an auditory hallucination
of the white noise. Some are actually louder than my *own* voice asking
questions on the tape. Of course the accent was so thick that people
can't decide on what exactly it's saying, but they more most startled
by the sheer presence of it. Some question me whether it was a joke
because to them it defies rational explanation.

If rectification was taking place through a digital recorder, what
would be the maximum volume of it? I've never heard of *loud* voices
showing up. In fact, the quality and type and accent of the voices
reach such a wide spectrum that they are impossible to all explain away
by any one theory. But the more theories you use to try to explain them
all away, it's more plausible there may be a paranormal connection -
that is just for argument's sake. After hundreds of hours of research
with thousands of voices, and the odd events surrounding my life during
that time, I firmly believe most of these voices are paranormal in
nature. It's also interesting that nobody has asked me to listen to the
clearest voices. It would be impossible to convince you of their
paranormal origin because I'd be asking you to change your belief
system over something you've never researched or tried yourself. Now
*that* would be kooky.

Jeff

dxAce

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 6:36:34 PM8/15/06
to

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

You're a KOOK.

Run along now, and take your meds.

dxAce
Michigan
USA


FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 6:43:41 PM8/15/06
to

cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> I do own a little RCA six hour digital recorder,and several cassette
> tape recorders too.(the Bell South woman or that other woman lost the
> battery cover and the instruction manual when I loaned it to them last
> Feburary) My Radio Shack Pro-91 hand held scanner radio has an earphone
> jack on top by the antenna and on/off/volume control knob and the
> squelch knob.How should I hook it up?
> cuhuln

I too use an RCA recorder, a 5012A model. My friend uses a 5012B model
but it doesn't work as well. Many say it depends on who is using the
recorder. For some reason I don't get nearly as many voices when the
recorder is left by itself, but if the operator is near it, the more
success you'll have. I think it's because they use your energy somehow.

Get an audio cable and plug from the mic jack on the recorder to the
earphone jack on the scanner, tune to a random frequency with only
static and press record. Record for about 30 seconds and upload the
tape onto your computer and amplify the sound (shareware software like
Cool Edit is best, and also the use of a Denoiser helps:

http://www.speechpro.com/production/?id=468&fid=7

click on "Denoiser Demo" on top right of the screen - it only allows
you to denoise 30 seconds at a time but that's perfect for EVP
recordings. I have not used the Virtos Denoiser or other newer denoiser
software which have popped up overnight).

Some here may argue that the use of a denoiser may corrupt the results
further, but experiments with it using my own faint voice over a lot of
white noise proved beneficial in that the denoiser clearly brought out
my voice which was nearly inaudible over the static. Remember,
everything in the universe involves energy. It would take a
particularly strong spirit to yell or scream on a tape. Most voices are
faint but as you record and experiment more they get stronger. Soon
you'll recognize who they are by their voice.

For a control, do a separate recording of the frequency without
plugging it through the scanner. For some reason the voices that appear
through the scanner are more monotone, and the ones in the room with
the scanner used as background noise are more dimensional in nature.

Good luck and feel free to email me if you need help.

Jeff

dxAce

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 6:56:09 PM8/15/06
to

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

Crap, you're the one who needs help, boy.

dxAce
Michigan
USA


FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 6:57:29 PM8/15/06
to

cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> I own one or two old Panasonic tape recorders,I dont know what the model
> numbers are,I would have to hunt them up out of my piles of junk and
> see.I see one at the Goodwill store every once in a while.Maybe I will
> start a collection of them.
> cuhulin

If one of them are the RR-DR60 model, you'd have a goldmine.

The first night I conducted an EVP experiment, I used an old photograph
from the 1800s and a genuine 1920s William Fuld Ouija board as the
backdrop. I lit some candles and asked for communication (I have never
gotten a Ouija board to work, am not sensitive to spirits in any way,
and cannot be hypnotized). I made some recordings and got a melodic
humming voice of a woman (in the photo was an unknown woman holding her
baby). On the second recording I asked who did the humming, "Was that
you?", and a deep (almost demonic) sounding voice said, "It was."

This startled me so much that I stopped all experiments until I moved
to a new town and met a lot of people at the steakhouse where I work
who were interesting in conducting paranormal experiments. I finally
met a guy who has been my fellow researcher and best friend and we've
uncovered some amazing results which are still nowhere near a peak. It
is because of these results that I feel it best to start passing on our
techniques to others who are interested, in hopes of opening up their
minds to the possibilities of EVP and ITC.

However, be forewarned... a lot depends on your resonance (vibrational
rate) - if you are using drugs, are disturbed, or are in a negative
mindset, you tend to resonate with more negative spirits (which are
closer to this plane of existence, as opposed to the astral beings
which are higher up with a higher vibrational rate). I must admit that
the spirits which followed me back from the cemetery were of this
mindset and made many threats, countless vulgarity, and so on. A girl
who came with us to the cemetery had a panic attack and nearly had to
go to the hospital. Weeks later she was exorcised, though I was not
present and can't truly say whether she had a demonic presence
surrounding her. Chances are (if it was not something in her own mind)
it was a negative spirit which latched onto her (she was deeply
Christian yet interested in the paranormal). I have only seen her once
since moving to Daytona to a church camp.

When she came by one evening I played for her and her boyfriend's
sister (who is sensitive) the tapes at the cemetery the night she had
the panic attack. Almost simultaneously, my disabled ADT alarm started
sounding flashing the "Trouble" light. This bothered me since the alarm
was fully non-functional and I had even broken into my own house before
after losing my key without the alarm sounding. It has never again done
that, and this was over 6 months ago.

Anyway, I could type a book about my experiments which seemed to bring
on questionable events (even more startling since I am not sensitive -
I use this electronic equipment as my eyes and ears, though I still
feel that I'm wondering around in a darkened room without a
flashlight).

I hope some of this helps. Good luck on your endeavour if you feel you
should pursue it. I highly recommend at least a few experiments - just
experiment at a healthy dose and don't go to abandoned cemeteries
unless you really want to invite negativity back to your home.

Jeff

Slow Code

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 7:15:57 PM8/15/06
to
FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote in
news:1155598998.3...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


How do you normally prepare yourself for the experiment. Sniff glue?
Mushrooms? Lick a toad? LSD?

SC


One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 8:49:12 PM8/15/06
to
FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:


> - just experiment at a healthy dose and don't go to abandoned
> cemeteries unless you really want to invite negativity back to your
> home.

Now this is indeed puzzling. Why would going to a cemetery, abandoned or
otherwise, bring "negativity" back to your home?

Is -everyone- buried there a bad person? Weren't any good people buried
there too? If there are "spirits", are you implying that they are all bad?

One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 8:50:52 PM8/15/06
to
FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> For a control, do a separate recording of the frequency without
> plugging it through the scanner. For some reason the voices that appear
> through the scanner are more monotone, and the ones in the room with
> the scanner used as background noise are more dimensional in nature.

Please, I really am confused as to why the spirits would dick around
with scanners, white noise, RF, de-noiser software and all that
technical mumbo-jumbo.

How did "the spirits" ever get by before tape recorders and scanners?

If "the spirits" are so technically savvy, why can't they figure out how
to just whisper in your ear?

One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 15, 2006, 8:57:04 PM8/15/06
to
FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> It's also interesting that nobody has asked me to listen to the
> clearest voices. It would be impossible to convince you of their
> paranormal origin because I'd be asking you to change your belief
> system over something you've never researched or tried yourself.

No, it's not that. It's just that the "evidence chain" has not been
properly controlled and it is just too easy to fake a recording. Mind
you, I am not saying that you would do such a thing, but to us, just
listening, would have no idea who recorded what we were listening to.

If it's possible to show a film of Forrest Gump (a fictional character)
shaking hands with JFK (a real character), it's not too big of a stretch
to legitimately question how a voice got on an audio tape.

> Your explanations sound good in theory, but do not explain how some
> EVPs show up so loud that they are not just an auditory hallucination
> of the white noise. Some are actually louder than my *own* voice asking
> questions on the tape. Of course the accent was so thick that people
> can't decide on what exactly it's saying,

"Loud" has nothing to do with paranormal. Loud is simply a function of
the strength of the RF signal and how well modulated it is. Just as an
example, there could be a foreign speaking taxi driver near by with his
CB and linear amplifier. (You said in an earlier post that you had some
kind of radio on 29 point something MHz. This is the CB band, and we all
know there are a lot of barnyard and/or strange noises/voices on CB). ;-)

m II

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Aug 15, 2006, 11:29:25 PM8/15/06
to
One Hung Low wrote:

> b) P.T. Barnum was right! There is indeed a sucker born every minute.


http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

mike

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 16, 2006, 5:48:04 PM8/16/06
to
One Hung Low wrote:

> Now this is indeed puzzling. Why would going to a cemetery, abandoned or
> otherwise, bring "negativity" back to your home?
>
> Is -everyone- buried there a bad person? Weren't any good people buried
> there too? If there are "spirits", are you implying that they are all bad?

I am speaking from personal experience and the experience of the dozen
or so people who went with me. Panic attacks, paranoia, threatening
voices on recordings, etc. I've gone to other well-kept cemeteries and
did not pick up *any* voices. But yet a vandalized old black cemetery
with open holes in crypts, dug up graves, mounds of sand marking
graves, etc., seemed to produce so many voices many were speaking on
top of each other. Sometimes in one 10-second recording over 5 voices
could be identified.

Why would there be so many voices in one cemetery, but not others? Why
would my house then have so many voices on recordings when before going
to this cemetery it did not? Why have people told me they have sensed
spirits at my house? Why are some people so scared they have to urinate
outside the house rather than go into the guest bathroom? Why has one
of my relatives (since these experiments begun) actually see a misty
presence of a woman in a brand new house (she has never witnessed a
ghost before and has no reason to lie about what she saw). This is just
the tip of the iceberg, yet none of this occurred *before* going to
this cemetery.

Of course, all of this can be explained away. You can also either
explain away the moon landing as a hoax or say it really happened ...
two theories yet only one reality. You base yours on lack of experience
with this sort of thing ... I base mine on what I and others have
witnessed firsthand. Why don't you just spend some time experimenting
on your own instead of assuming that all my experiences are irrevelant?

I'm not here to argue the afterlife. I only came here to try to come to
another conclusion (for the peace of mind) that would explain these
weird events, and so far (brain/pattern or AM stations) have led to
more doubt than plausibility.

Jeff

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 16, 2006, 5:57:36 PM8/16/06
to
One Hung Low wrote:

> Please, I really am confused as to why the spirits would dick around
> with scanners, white noise, RF, de-noiser software and all that
> technical mumbo-jumbo.

Brilliant minds have often had trouble communicating their ideas to
others. But that's another story. Considering spirits are made up of
energy, they obviously need energy to communicate and implant their
voices onto our equipment. One of the most brilliant minds ever, Thomas
Edison, along with Marconi, Crookes, and many of the greatest
scientists of the 20th century all believed it was possible to
communicate with the dead through radio. I think any one of them would
be smarter than most everyone in this group, and they obviously had a
good reason to believe this was possible. The first EVPs showed up in
the 1920s. Science has had all that time to explain them away, only
more and more evidence is showing up to discount traditional theories.

> How did "the spirits" ever get by before tape recorders and scanners?

The way some of them still do - dreams, materialization (which happened
to my relative), automatic writing, even some seances, and direct
voice.

> If "the spirits" are so technically savvy, why can't they figure out how
> to just whisper in your ear?

Many of them do - but that would involve someone who is sensitive. Why
do many sensitives belong to the same genetic traits and families? Some
day a "sensitive/psychic gene" will be discovered. There are also a lot
of equipment which picks up different forms of energy and radiation -
radio waves, x-rays, UV light, etc. - yet you don't hear radio waves
until they're picked up on your equipment. Who's to say spirits aren't
energy which can only be picked up in our current 3-dimensional world
by people of a different genetic background, dreams, and certain
electronic equipment? Seeing isn't necessarily believing, and believing
is almost never seeing. It's what lies within, not on the pages of some
science textbook.

Jeff

patrick jankowiak

unread,
Aug 16, 2006, 9:58:48 PM8/16/06
to
Jim Hackett wrote:

> I thought chickens "clucked", not "bucked"...
>
>
>
> <FLjef...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:1155598483.2...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Rastis P. Buttsnort wrote:
>>
>>
>>>All that's happening is a simple case of "Rectification". You are
>
> hearing
>
>>>one or more AM broadcast stations. This is nothing new.
>>>Unless of course you really WANT to believe this is something it's
>
> not.....
>
>>If this was rectification of AM stations, then why:
>>
>>- No music, advertising, or anything else shows up, but yet
>>- Sometimes clear voices are heard saying vulgar words which would
>>never be allowed on any AM station, and
>>- Sometimes prophetic statements are made using my own name and the
>>name of other witnesses present or deeply involved in the experiments,
>>and
>>- In one instance I heard what sounded like several loud chickens
>>bocking at such a large volume it would've surely been heard at room
>>volume (incidently, these loud "animal-like" sounds always appear
>>toward the end of the recording, shortly before I hit "stop" - but yet
>>there is no interference with the audio plug or movement by myself
>>before stopping the recording, yet they are often a hallmark of the
>>brief mostly 30-second recordings I do)?
>>
>>To one extreme I heard a death threat used against one of my
>>co-workers. To the other I heard statements like "you did not work
>>today" (which I hadn't) and "no mouse pad" (which I use none).
>>
>>Overall, if you count the digital recordings from the cemetery (where
>>no white noise was present except for the internal components of the
>>rather silent recorder), the house, and plugged directly into the back
>>of the scanner, I've stored thousands of unexplained voices - and it
>>would've been impossible for the scanner to pick up AM stations in the
>>cemetery (and along with the fact that most all the voices sounded had
>>thick country accents and sounded African-American in nature with poor
>>grammar, I find the odds of this being rectification far-fetched).
>>
>>A group of friends and I were so intrigued with some of the voices from
>>the cemetery, we made a CD which had some of our best recordings and
>>submitted it at work and to other people with a brief survey for the
>>listener to circle either AGREE, DISAGREE, or UNDECIDED as to whether
>>they heard the same voice and believed it was saying the same thing as
>>we did. And of course, several EVPs (electronic voice phenomenon) had
>>an agreement rate of over 95% of nearly 30 people.
>>
>>I am not debating the existence of EVPs using a recorder and a source
>>of white noise, TV static, etc., for the conduit. I am asking you for a
>>plausible explanation that would explain voices saying your name,
>>sometimes vulgar words, etc., with such clarity that witnesses all
>>agree on what is being said but have no explanation as to how or why
>>they are showing up on a recording of of a frequency with nothing
>>audible on it when not recording.
>>
>>And one last thought... how could such clear voices and sounds
>>(sometimes very loud in nature but yet inaudible while not being
>>recorded) be showing up on *any* frequency with a squelch level of only
>>1 or 2? I thought perhaps the audio cable to the recorder acted like
>>some sort of antenna but in reality it's not even hooked into the
>>external antenna jack.
>>
>>Anyway, I'd rather at times believe there *are no* spirits that
>>followed me back, which is why I'm trying one last time to come to a
>>plausible conclusion which would explain away the voices which have
>>been picked up on tape, recorded, and catalogued for the record.
>>
>>Thank you for helping to solve this mystery...
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>
Inviting spirits to come calling is really not such a good idea, is it?

Bullwinkle: "Ennie Meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak!"

Rocky: "Are they friendly spirits?"

Bullwinkle: "Just Listen".

Then the commercials began. definitely evil spirits.

Hopefully a little levity will go a long way.

Telamon

unread,
Aug 16, 2006, 11:41:49 PM8/16/06
to
In article <1155764883.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> I am speaking from personal experience and the experience of the dozen
> or so people who went with me.

< Snip >

Please drop rec.radio.shortwave from the cross posted news groups.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 8:48:47 AM8/17/06
to

> One Hung Low wrote:

>> Now this is indeed puzzling. Why would going to a cemetery, abandoned or
>> otherwise, bring "negativity" back to your home?
>>
>> Is -everyone- buried there a bad person? Weren't any good people buried
>> there too? If there are "spirits", are you implying that they are all bad?

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> I am speaking from personal experience and the experience of the dozen
> or so people who went with me. Panic attacks, paranoia, threatening
> voices on recordings, etc.

<major snippage>

But you seem to have evaded the issue.

Again, aren't there any good people buried there? Why wouldn't a "good
spirit" follow you home?

Is all that RF voice chatter solely due to them bitching about the
vandalism? (this seems to be the case, as you said you heard -no- voices
in an un-vandalized cemetery). If they are so aggrieved by the
vandalism, why didn't they follow home the people who did the
vandalizing? Why are they bothering innocent bystanders who had nothing
to do with the vandalism?

One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 8:49:25 AM8/17/06
to

> One Hung Low wrote:

>> If "the spirits" are so technically savvy, why can't they figure out how
>> to just whisper in your ear?

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> Many of them do - but that would involve someone who is sensitive.

Well, one might think it would ultimately be easier for them to find
someone who is sensitive rather than for them trying to find someone who
has radios, scanners, white noise, de-noiser software and only
particular brands of tape recorders.

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 4:14:09 PM8/17/06
to
One Hung Low wrote:

> Again, aren't there any good people buried there? Why wouldn't a "good
> spirit" follow you home?

Perhaps the "good people" are in a higher plane of existence and have
no reason to stick around a lonely desolate cemetery? I'm only speaking
from the tone of the voices I heard - the majority of them, that is. I
did pick up the voice of an older lady saying "Walk after Jesus" and
mentioning the Bible. But any positive spirits were definitely
outnumbered.

> Is all that RF voice chatter solely due to them bitching about the
> vandalism? (this seems to be the case, as you said you heard -no- voices
> in an un-vandalized cemetery). If they are so aggrieved by the
> vandalism, why didn't they follow home the people who did the
> vandalizing? Why are they bothering innocent bystanders who had nothing
> to do with the vandalism?

They probably did, just as they did to people who visited my house
during these experiments. Now one co-worker claims he has a ghost in
his house and my relative things they followed me to her house as well.
One thing's certain - ever since I boycotted EVP because of the vulgar
language there aren't as many spirits hanging around I feel - which
means they probably got bored due to the lack of my enthusiasm to
communicate, and decided to harass other people who were more in tune
with them.

Jeff

dxAce

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Aug 17, 2006, 4:18:52 PM8/17/06
to

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

You're a frickin fruitloop...

dxAce
Michigan
USA


FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 4:20:33 PM8/17/06
to
One Hung Low wrote:

> Well, one might think it would ultimately be easier for them to find
> someone who is sensitive rather than for them trying to find someone who
> has radios, scanners, white noise, de-noiser software and only
> particular brands of tape recorders.

Indeed, but how many sensitives do you know visit cemeteries to
communicate with the dead? They have enough problems blocking them out
of their bedroom. I was told by one sensitive that spirits know when a
person is sensitive - like a flashlight beam in a darkened room - and
they attach themselves around that person in hopes of communicating
important messages. Many people have died with unresolved issues, and
if there are such things as spirits and ghosts and free will, it would
make sense that many would choose to stick around in this plane to
either communicate or simply watch what is going on.

The next best thing to a sensitive would be someone with equipment to
detect their presence. Obviously, with me going into that cemetery on
countless occassions and pleading with them to communicate any way
possible, and calling them by first name, I was taking an inviting
approach and also promising them I would continue to communicate and
help get their messages through. Perhaps I should've been more stern.

As far as denoiser software, it is only used to filter out the white
noise and bring out nearly inaudible voices so the human ear can better
understand them. Again, it works with inaudible human voices, and for
whatever reason it also works for inaudible voices that are of an
unknown origin, pointing to the fact that they are indeed voices, and
if you would listen to just one of my recordings, you would definitely
throw the "brain/pattern" theory out the window.

Jeff

dxAce

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 4:29:49 PM8/17/06
to

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

You're a frickin fruitloop.

dxAce
Michigan
USA


Al Smith

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 4:32:20 PM8/17/06
to
>>Please, I really am confused as to why the spirits would dick around
>>> with scanners, white noise, RF, de-noiser software and all that
>>> technical mumbo-jumbo.
>
>
> Brilliant minds have often had trouble communicating their ideas to
> others. But that's another story. Considering spirits are made up of
> energy, they obviously need energy to communicate and implant their
> voices onto our equipment. One of the most brilliant minds ever, Thomas
> Edison, along with Marconi, Crookes, and many of the greatest
> scientists of the 20th century all believed it was possible to
> communicate with the dead through radio. I think any one of them would
> be smarter than most everyone in this group, and they obviously had a
> good reason to believe this was possible. The first EVPs showed up in
> the 1920s. Science has had all that time to explain them away, only
> more and more evidence is showing up to discount traditional theories.
>


Forgive me for pointing it out, but your understanding of spirits
is pathetically crude. They are not physical beings, or energy
beings. They manifest and express themselves through the human
mind, which projects their expressions outward (so to speak) and
translates them into terms human consciousness is able to
comprehend. White noise provides a convenient matrix for them to
communicate, since the human mind is ever anxious to pick
recognizable patterns out of chaos. However, they are not able to
physically impress their voices on recording devices, since they
do not have voices, in any mechanical sense. For the same reason
they cannot be photographed, since they do not have physical bodies.

Al Smith

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 4:38:47 PM8/17/06
to


When spirits communicate, they often rely on the innate tendency
of the human mind to make sense out of chaos, to impose order on
disordered systems. It is easier for them to impress the human
mind with the illusion of a voice, for example, if there is a
background noise that encourages the false impression of a voice
or voices -- the sound of a motor, or rain falling, or even the
wind. Spirits do not actually have voices, but in order to
communicate clearly and explicitly they must express their
thoughts in a way that human minds are able to deal with -- in
words. They cannot form actual words, but they can trigger the
impression of words in the human mind, and this is easier with the
help of some background noise conducive to the impression of voices.

dxAce

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 4:42:58 PM8/17/06
to

Al Smith wrote:

Got drugs?

Dave

unread,
Aug 17, 2006, 7:20:25 PM8/17/06
to

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> I turned my scanner onto a particular "dead" frequency (actually, it
> doesn't matter which frequency - every one I tried produced the same
> results) and of course heard nothing but static (and of course the
> squelch was 1 or 2 because anything higher would mute out the sound).
>
> I then plugged my IC recorder (digital voice recorder) into the back of
> the scanner and pressed record. I uploaded the recording to my computer
> with Adobe Audition and amplified the sound, and could hear human
> voices (this was confirmed by various witnesses) saying things that
> would have me in doubt that I was picking up a stray broadcast. Words
> were used like "ghosts", "spirit", the "n" word, along with meaningless
> dribble and weird animal sounds. This was in the same back bedroom
> where I set up my RF signal generator, scanner, and other recording
> equipment to mimic the 70s Spiricom "Mark IV" experiment.
>
> My question is this: can a digital recorder pick up voices through a
> frequency if plugged into the back of the scanner (of human origin)
> that cannot be heard through the scanner's speaker? The same recording
> was done of the room with the white noise of the dead frequency in the
> background and entirely different results were produced, with the
> voices sounding less monotone and more like others were in the room
> talking.
>
> Of course, it doesn't help that I was doing paranormal research using
> the digital recorder at a desolated black cemetery in town here and
> abruptly stopped to focus on 2-way communication as opposed to EVPs.
>
> Any way to easily explain away the voices that show up on the recording
> of the static/frequency but not the static/frequency itself when
> listened to in real-time?
Don't worry about it. Back in the day, my parents' baby monitor used
to pick up Radio Moscow.

I think you would be much better working in dreams, and it started
getting interesting when trying some underworld visualization
exercises.

e.g. R.J. Stewart: Power Within the Land: The Roots of Celtic and
Underworld Traditions Awakening the Sleepers and Regenerating the Earth
(Paperback)

Did you have a digital connection from the scanner to the recorder?
What were the voices saying? It may have been a radio play.

Also if you expect to hear something you often can convince yourself
that you do hear it. Like in music for hearing your name, e.g. Enter
Sandman, Metallica, "Hush little 'David'.." when the printed lyrics are
"Hush little Baby".

Telamon

unread,
Aug 18, 2006, 1:07:45 AM8/18/06
to
In article <1155845649.3...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:

Your posts are off topic junk in rec.radio.shortwave.

< Plonk >

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ela...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 18, 2006, 10:21:29 AM8/18/06
to
Jeff,
Most people who do this type of research at cemeteries do prayers or
some other type of psychic self-defense rituals before going and before
leaving to make sure people DON'T follow them home. It is generally
considered pretty dangerous to open yourself and your home up
unconditionally like that, but it sounds like you and your friends
already figured that out by experience.
Personally, my home is a no spookable zone. Anyone from the cemetery
across the back fence showing up in here gets the cold shoulder, and if
they don't catch the hint they get asked to leave every time they show
up. We don't do evp or other communication solicitations here in the
house. I do this because things got sort of out of hand at my old
place. I've been living here two or three years and so far so good.
Good luck with your experiments, but do think about not letting them
into your house. You need a beak from them or it'll drive you nuts.
~Elabeth

FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> If you were a spirit and had a message to convey, you'd probably
> gravitate toward someone who was spending time trying to open up the
> door to communication.
>
> EVP research (it's research because it can't easily be explained away
> by those who were skeptical at first but did their own investigation of
> the phenomenon) takes patience, an open mind, and no particular belief
> system starting out. But it's not recommended for everybody. In fact, I
> took the easy way out by trying to visit places in hopes something
> would follow me back. Now it has, and I can pick it up anytime I want
> to.
>
> Jeff

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 18, 2006, 10:35:56 PM8/18/06
to
Al Smith wrote:

> Forgive me for pointing it out, but your understanding of spirits
> is pathetically crude. They are not physical beings, or energy
> beings.

Considering that spirits have a consciousness and a soul (after all,
we're not talking about wine spirits here) then there would have to be
some sort of energy existing within that soul. How could a spirit
reason, project its voice onto tape, manifest, or insert itself into a
dream if it wasn't energy?

They manifest and express themselves through the human
> mind, which projects their expressions outward (so to speak) and

One theory behind EVP was that the voices were actually coming from the
experimenter's mind. Experiments using conscious manipulation proved
futile and there was no telepathic link from the mind to the recording.
If you are talking about something else (through who's human mind -
ours or theirs?)

> translates them into terms human consciousness is able to
> comprehend. White noise provides a convenient matrix for them to
> communicate, since the human mind is ever anxious to pick
> recognizable patterns out of chaos. However, they are not able to
> physically impress their voices on recording devices, since they
> do not have voices, in any mechanical sense.

You're referring to a physical voice? It's hard to define a voice since
a voice isn't a physical object, but sound waves. Then you have voices
travelling through radio waves which you can't detect unless you have
an antenna and the proper gadgetry. According to EVP theory, there are
two ways a spirit can communicate - telepathically and *through
speaking* - we don't hear them because we can't see them, though
sometimes people do hear voices and instantly dismiss them as an
overactive imagination. Again, this goes more into the "how" - which if
anyone easily knew the answer, then there would be no debate.

> they cannot be photographed, since they do not have physical bodies.

Images of the deceased (not including orbs or other white anamolies,
but actual facial images) have shown up in photographs for centuries.
Many were hoaxes, but many more cannot be proven a hoax. You can't
dismiss *every* photograph because you believe they can't be
photographed.

In fact, cameras pick up *many* things the human eye cannot, and stuff
like different nanometers of light which we don't see aren't exactly
physical.

Jeff

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 18, 2006, 10:44:51 PM8/18/06
to

Al Smith wrote:

> When spirits communicate, they often rely on the innate tendency
> of the human mind to make sense out of chaos, to impose order on
> disordered systems. It is easier for them to impress the human
> mind with the illusion of a voice, for example, if there is a
> background noise that encourages the false impression of a voice
> or voices -- the sound of a motor, or rain falling, or even the

You're missing the point. The voice is not an illusion, but an actual
auditory manifestation on tape. Whisper as loud as you can a brief
phrase and you'll get an idea on how clear and imposing these voices
are. It's one thing to just sit and listen to white noise, imagining
voices or images (which I truly believe happens - imagination, just
like seeing faces in smoke and clouds), but the whole idea of
*recording* the white noise is to produce a tangible record of their
existence. Most are too weak to be argued anything astronomically
amazing, but some are so loud and clear that you *know* it's not the
human mind playing tricks on you. Something or someone put that voice
there, and it wasn't heard during the recording process, so if any
theory makes more sense it would be the rectification theory since the
mind cannot imagine a voice and suddenly have it appear on the
recording. Afterall, the mind *does not hear* anything when the
recording is going on - only afterwards.

> wind. Spirits do not actually have voices, but in order to
> communicate clearly and explicitly they must express their
> thoughts in a way that human minds are able to deal with -- in
> words. They cannot form actual words, but they can trigger the
> impression of words in the human mind, and this is easier with the
> help of some background noise conducive to the impression of voices.

I see your point, but until you do a recording yourself and pick up a
voice speaking your name or of some other relevance in a loud and clear
manner then you really haven't understood EVP, because trust me - it'll
leave you scratching your head and probably invoke a little fear for
first-timers.

Jeff

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 18, 2006, 10:54:19 PM8/18/06
to

cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> Probally the good dead people's spirits go to Heaven.Could be it's the
> bad dead people's spirits that follow you home from the grave yards.
> cuhulin

I believe that spirits evolve and grow and move up to higher dimensions
over time. Life is a test, a learning lesson. Those who don't evolve
spiritually can't enter higher dimensions because their vibratory rate
is so low. I can see why these spirits hung around the cemetery to
protect it, but unfortunately they sound exactly the same in death
(accents, slang, etc.) as they did in person, and since they are still
in this dimension then it's rather easy for *sensitive* electronic
equipment to pick up their presence - IF they want to communicate.

The first time I went out there I only got one good EVP, which to this
day was the strongest, loudest, and clearest one I ever recorded - it
said "Bring him" in a man's voice after I tripped over a grave. I
reversed it months later and the reversal says, just as clear, "Right
here"...as in "Bring him right here" - of course if any of you listened
to this recording, the majority would say it is a hoax and that only a
living human could have made a voice that clear, but I wouldn't be here
debating this if it was a hoax, and plus I don't see how someone could
possible form a perfect "Right here" out of reversing the words "Bring
him".

I'll try to remember to bring the recording next time I use this
computer, since everything's at home stored on my computer.

After all, it's like a doctor diagnosing a disease without visiting
with the patient. Until you actually listen to the voices you truly
have no idea the clarity - and trust me, these voices aren't like
people talking. They are downright creepy. The tone... they honestly
sound like something out of a horror movie or ghost story.

FLjef...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Aug 18, 2006, 11:08:21 PM8/18/06
to
Dave wrote:

> Did you have a digital connection from the scanner to the recorder?
> What were the voices saying? It may have been a radio play.

I recorded both through a stereo audio cord directly from the scanner
to the recorder, and again in the room with the scanner playing in the
background.

Two of the most disturbing voices, which happened weeks apart, said
"I'm gonna strangle Gene" and "Gene," in one voice and "kill that
n----". A guy named Gene just happened to visit the house the night
before of the first recording and pointed out three spirits in the
living room and later called them "weak" and "pathetic" because they
couldn't make anything move.

But I'm going off on a tangent there ... I've recorded thousands of
voices. Most of the times it sounds like one voice starts the sentence,
and others finish it, or perhaps the voice is fluctuating in tone. But
I think many are talking and finishing the sentences because they seem
to be in unison. It's downright eerie.

Truly... if it was a radio play or *any* radio station, how could the
same voices be talking about the same stuff no matter what time I
record?

One evening I did feel a presence (I'm not sensitive) and got out the
Bible and did a recording. The volume of the recording was 10 times
higher than what it had been set at (recorder malfunction) yet the
digital readout said it was the volume I originally set it at. There
was yelling, threats, "Armaggeddon!", and all kinds of other stuff said
by the same voices I heard initially in the cemetery - angry
African-American spirits. Oddly enough, the recorder returned to normal
after three recordings of their tirade. I've learned not to intimidate
them with a Bible, though that may be a bad sign that they go crazy
whenever I read from it and do a recording.

> Also if you expect to hear something you often can convince yourself
> that you do hear it. Like in music for hearing your name, e.g. Enter
> Sandman, Metallica, "Hush little 'David'.." when the printed lyrics are
> "Hush little Baby".

Hence you have Class B and C EVP recordings. But Class A recordings are
generally agreed upon as saying a certain thing by nearly everyone who
hear them. But you bring up a good point - many times when spirits talk
you can't understand them and it takes many-a-listen to decipher what
they're saying. It's of the utmost importance to interpret the message
correctly - because what good is communicating if you get the wrong
message? That's when it becomes vital to communicate back to them and
ask them what can be done to make their voices clearer. Usually they
will respond with relevant information, but not always. But as to
you're hearing anything at all - yes, there definitely are voices, and
it has nothing to do with one's imagination. Once you examine the
strongest evidence, you can only conclude that yes, indeed it's a
voice, but where did it come from and why does it even sound like a
dead person would?

Jeff

Al Smith

unread,
Aug 19, 2006, 3:34:53 AM8/19/06
to
>> Forgive me for pointing it out, but your understanding of spirits
>> > is pathetically crude. They are not physical beings, or energy
>> > beings.
>
> Considering that spirits have a consciousness and a soul (after all,
> we're not talking about wine spirits here) then there would have to be
> some sort of energy existing within that soul. How could a spirit
> reason, project its voice onto tape, manifest, or insert itself into a
> dream if it wasn't energy?
>

If you know what a soul is, then you are ahead of me and most of
the philosophers of the past two thousand years. I cannot refute
that spirits have souls because (a) I have no sense myself of what
a soul is, and (b) I have no way of knowing what you mean by "soul."

Spirits are the same as us, except they do not usually have
sustained control over bodies of flesh and blood. Are we energy? I
put it to you that if we were stripped of all our flesh and bone,
we could not be measured, any more than the essence (soul?) of a
dead person can be measured after it "leaves" its corpse.

Similarly, spirits cannot be measured directly by machine, and
therefore cannot be said to possess energy or be made of energy.
What they can do is affect the human brain and nervous system,
just as we can. Their control is (usually) not as extensive or as
refined as our own. We learn to control our bodies from birth,
whereas spirits only get a chance to drive a body of flesh during
partial or complete possession (which is quite common, by the way).

While a spirit is controlling a body, partially or completely, it
can affect that body, and can use that body to affect its
environment. These effects can be measured and recorded, and have
energy.

Point is, all things tangible and persistent about a spirit
require a body of flesh. It is our memories that define our
personalities, our very identities. Spirits outside flesh do not
have memories. Hence they have no definite identities. They can
develop identities only when they begin to interact with living
minds encased in flesh. This interaction may be passive -- they
may do no more than observe -- but the interaction allows them to
acquire a sense of self.


> They manifest and express themselves through the human
>> > mind, which projects their expressions outward (so to speak) and
>
> One theory behind EVP was that the voices were actually coming from the
> experimenter's mind. Experiments using conscious manipulation proved
> futile and there was no telepathic link from the mind to the recording.
> If you are talking about something else (through who's human mind -
> ours or theirs?)
>

It's simplistic to say that spirit voices come from the mind of
the perceiver. The mind of a human being is used by a spirit to
enable it to articulate itself. It does not speak, even though it
may seem to speak -- it creates the illusion of a voice by
manipulating the inner perceptions of the hearer.

The only way a spirit can speak is to possess its host, and then
use the physical voice of that person to express itself in words.
There is no such thing as a disembodied spirit voice, although
there is often the very real perception of a disembodied spirit
voice. Just as the image in a dream is not seen with the physical
eyes, a disembodied spirit voice is not heard with the ears -- it
only seems to be heard with the ears. The illusion is perfect.
Often times a spirit voice cannot be distinguished from the voice
of a physical speaker.


>> > translates them into terms human consciousness is able to
>> > comprehend. White noise provides a convenient matrix for them to
>> > communicate, since the human mind is ever anxious to pick
>> > recognizable patterns out of chaos. However, they are not able to
>> > physically impress their voices on recording devices, since they
>> > do not have voices, in any mechanical sense.
>
> You're referring to a physical voice? It's hard to define a voice since
> a voice isn't a physical object, but sound waves. Then you have voices
> travelling through radio waves which you can't detect unless you have
> an antenna and the proper gadgetry. According to EVP theory, there are
> two ways a spirit can communicate - telepathically and *through
> speaking* - we don't hear them because we can't see them, though
> sometimes people do hear voices and instantly dismiss them as an
> overactive imagination. Again, this goes more into the "how" - which if
> anyone easily knew the answer, then there would be no debate.
>

Spirits do not rely on radio to speak. Rather, they rely on the
white noise of static to supply a kind of textured background that
allows them to more easily manipulate the auditory perceptions of
the listener so that the listener gets the illusion of having
heard spoken words. When I refer to white noise, I mean any
chaotic background of an audible kind.

>> > they cannot be photographed, since they do not have physical bodies.
>
> Images of the deceased (not including orbs or other white anamolies,
> but actual facial images) have shown up in photographs for centuries.
> Many were hoaxes, but many more cannot be proven a hoax. You can't
> dismiss *every* photograph because you believe they can't be
> photographed.
>

I can indeed dismiss all spirit photographs, because I know that
spirits have no physical bodies of any kind. They are no more
physical than the figures we see in our dreams. They cannot
impress photographic film with an image. What they can do is
convince suggestible individuals that vague shapes in photographs
are spirit figures. They are able to modify perception so that
what to one person would seem no more than a meaningless blur
appears, to a susceptible person, the face of a spiritual being.
It is all done in the mind. Spirits manipulate human minds, not
the physical world.


> In fact, cameras pick up *many* things the human eye cannot, and stuff
> like different nanometers of light which we don't see aren't exactly
> physical.
>
> Jeff
>


Energy is physical. Matter and energy are, at root, one and the
same. What is not physical is a pattern. A pattern requires a
physical matrix, but it is independent of the matrix upon which it
is based. Letters of the alphabet, for example, must be inscribed
on something to be perceived, or at least imagined in the mind,
but they are not a part of the base that supports their manifest
forms. They are ideals in the Platonic sense. They exist apart
from matter -- however, apart from matter their existence cannot
be measured or recorded.

Or think of it this way. A spirit is like a piece of music. It is
a pattern that requires physical media to express itself, but is
not the physical media by which it is expressed. Music is not the
sound -- the sound is only its vehicle. Similarly, spirits require
human minds to express themselves, but they are not a part of
human minds -- yet apart from human minds they lack form or
identity. Their abstract nature becomes manifest when they are
filtered through our brains. On their own, they don't have bodies,
they don't have forms, they don't have voices. Exactly what they
are is beyond our comprehension, since they are unlike everything
we think we know. My belief is that they are beings of higher
dimensions who are able to insert themselves into our awareness
(what we think of as reality) via our minds. They put on forms,
identities, voices, to interact with us, but they put them on as
we would put on a suit of clothing.

However, it is a curious property of spirits that the identities
they assume become truly their identities for them. Just as our
identities over time become us. Spirits do not often lie about who
they are -- they truly believe they are the poses them adopt in
order to interact with human beings.

Al Smith

unread,
Aug 19, 2006, 3:39:18 AM8/19/06
to
>> Spirits do not actually have voices, but in order to
>> > communicate clearly and explicitly they must express their
>> > thoughts in a way that human minds are able to deal with -- in
>> > words. They cannot form actual words, but they can trigger the
>> > impression of words in the human mind, and this is easier with the
>> > help of some background noise conducive to the impression of voices.
>
> I see your point, but until you do a recording yourself and pick up a
> voice speaking your name or of some other relevance in a loud and clear
> manner then you really haven't understood EVP, because trust me - it'll
> leave you scratching your head and probably invoke a little fear for
> first-timers.
>
> Jeff
>

There is the question of poltergeist phenomena -- the possibility
that a spirit can, in some unknown manner, use the energies of a
human host to cause changes in the physical environment in
nonstandard ways. I think this kind of event may occur, based on
the recorded eye-witness evidence for it, but it is also possible
that some other factor is at work (deception used by the possessed
host; self-deception on the part of the witnesses).

If poltergeists exist, then it is not beyond possibility that
spirits can use human energies to modify physical recording
devices. I tend to believe this does not happen, but I would not
dismiss the possibility out of hand.

Al Smith

unread,
Aug 19, 2006, 3:48:27 AM8/19/06
to
> Once you examine the
> strongest evidence, you can only conclude that yes, indeed it's a
> voice, but where did it come from and why does it even sound like a
> dead person would?
>
> Jeff

Dead persons can't talk, so they don't sound like anything. If you
mean spooky horror film voices, sometimes the cliche is the
reality. Spirits do talk in weird ways. They shout, they curse,
they growl, they whisper. Or so it seems to our awareness. My own
theory is that part of the reason that both spirit voices and
spirit faces are so often distorted is that spirits lack perfect
control over our minds, and so they express themselves
imperfectly. It's like trying to drive a car when you've never
learned to drive. You go jerking and weaving all over the place.
It takes practice. Maybe some spirits just never get the knack.

One Hung Low

unread,
Aug 19, 2006, 9:30:37 AM8/19/06
to

>>>> If "the spirits" are so technically savvy, why can't they figure out
>>>> how
>>>> to just whisper in your ear?
>>
>>
>> FLjef...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>>
>>> Many of them do - but that would involve someone who is sensitive.
>>
>>
>> Well, one might think it would ultimately be easier for them to find
>> someone who is sensitive rather than for them trying to find someone
>> who has radios, scanners, white noise, de-noiser software and only
>> particular brands of tape recorders.
>

Al Smith wrote:

> Spirits do not actually have voices,

But they are good RF engineers?

> They cannot form actual words,

They cannot form actual words, but they -CAN- generate an AF modulated
(with actual words) RF signal? Really, now?

Please, don't expect the rest of us to be as gullible as you. :-(

Telamon

unread,
Aug 19, 2006, 2:02:04 PM8/19/06
to
In article <xazFg.9577$Ch.6327@clgrps13>,
Al Smith <inv...@address.com> wrote:

> >> Forgive me for pointing it out, but your understanding of spirits
> >> > is pathetically crude. They are not physical beings, or energy
> >> > beings.
> >
> > Considering that spirits have a consciousness and a soul (after all,
> > we're not talking about wine spirits here) then there would have to be
> > some sort of energy existing within that soul. How could a spirit
> > reason, project its voice onto tape, manifest, or insert itself into a
> > dream if it wasn't energy?
> >
>
> If you know what a soul is,

If you had a soul or a conscience you would drop rec.radio.shortwave off
the news group header since this is off topic crap.

Slow Code

unread,
Aug 20, 2006, 6:50:50 PM8/20/06
to
Telamon <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in
news:telamon_spamshield-E...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:


ROFL

Plonk-B-Gone

unread,
Aug 21, 2006, 1:47:23 PM8/21/06
to
Telamon wrote:

>>>> Forgive me for pointing it out, but your understanding of spirits
>>>>> is pathetically crude. They are not physical beings, or energy
>>>>> beings.
>>> Considering that spirits have a consciousness and a soul (after all,
>>> we're not talking about wine spirits here) then there would have to be
>>> some sort of energy existing within that soul. How could a spirit
>>> reason, project its voice onto tape, manifest, or insert itself into a
>>> dream if it wasn't energy?
>>>
>> If you know what a soul is,
>
> If you had a soul or a conscience you would drop rec.radio.shortwave off
> the news group header since this is off topic crap.
>
> < Plonk >

If -YOU- had a conscience (or half a brain), you would realize that you
are being a pompous, hypocritical jackass, condemning others for
-exactly- what you have done over 300 times.

Your Pal,
Plonk

Slow Code

unread,
Aug 21, 2006, 7:46:57 PM8/21/06